A little CCW Action.....Youtube Video

[JustRalph]

If you are going to Rob a Hotel.......make sure the Clerk isn't packing a Glock .40 Cal


3AA_dgRdDhk

[DJofSD]

That clerk should get the Dirty Harry "I'm luckier than you" award.

Nice when the police become the gargabe collectors.

Next up: a liberal crying about the BG.

[sandpit]

That clerk should get the Dirty Harry "I'm luckier than you" award.

Nice when the police become the gargabe collectors.

Next up: a liberal crying about the BG.

Speaking of garbage collectors, a couple of years ago a couple of genius criminals at the state penitentiary near where I live decided they were going to escape via the garbage truck. Problem was, they neglected to take in account the fact the garbage was compacted periodically by the driver during his route. Garbage in, garbage out.

[Robert Goren]

The clerk should get the "I am so lucky that I should buy a lottery ticket" award. He got the robber and no bystanders got hurt. JMO

[JustRalph]

The clerk should get the "I am so lucky that I should buy a lottery ticket" award. He got the robber and no bystanders got hurt. JMO


He looks to me to have been well trained somewhere. Average Joe's don't pop off those rounds that fast, in that fashion, without some training.

He fired right past the lady and the baby without hesitation and was moving toward his target and covered the target afterwards........ he learned that somewhere.

[mostpost]

He looks to me to have been well trained somewhere. Average Joe's don't pop off those rounds that fast, in that fashion, without some training.

He fired right past the lady and the baby without hesitation and was moving toward his target and covered the target afterwards........ he learned that somewhere.
Unless he was a police officer moonlighting at the hotel, that clerk was a moron. He barely missed the baby with his shots. What would have happened had the bad guy returned fire? One dead baby, one dead mother, one very large lawsuit for the hotel. Give him the money. You can always make more money.

[boxcar]

Unless he was a police officer moonlighting at the hotel, that clerk was a moron. He barely missed the baby with his shots. What would have happened had the bad guy returned fire? One dead baby, one dead mother, one very large lawsuit for the hotel. Give him the money. You can always make more money.

Maybe only morons think that only cops are proficient with guns.

Boxcar

[DJofSD]

The clerk could have been ex-military.

[boxcar]

The clerk could have been ex-military.

Or took several courses for proficiency. Or even has a CC permit, etc.

A neighbor of mine has such a permit and is extremely proficient with his guns.

Boxcar

[mostpost]

All this stuff about maybe he took courses and maybe he's ex-military are all beside the point. When you have two people with guns and two people in between them, the chances are high someone will get hurt and the most likely victims are the innocent bystanders. It didn't happen this time and the reasons have much more to do with dumb luck and not the supposed skills of the clerk.
I'm wondering if we have any police officers or ex police officers here and what they would have done in the same circumstances.

[boxcar]

All this stuff about maybe he took courses and maybe he's ex-military are all beside the point. When you have two people with guns and two people in between them, the chances are high someone will get hurt and the most likely victims are the innocent bystanders. It didn't happen this time and the reasons have much more to do with dumb luck and not the supposed skills of the clerk.
I'm wondering if we have any police officers or ex police officers here and what they would have done in the same circumstances.

No! What is besides the point are your foolish speculations that the guy was just some dumb clerk, who probably didn't know the busy end of a gun from the other and that he just got lucky! You weren't there. You don't know the clerk. And you certainly don't know how good this guy may be with HIS weapon.

But whatever the case may be with this guy, one thing is for certain: The death of the thief will not be held against this clerk on judgment day. The thief deserved what he got.

Boxcar

[DJofSD]

Well, let's see what you know about fire arms and their use, Mosty.

What do you think is the first and foremost rule that applies in the situation?

[lsbets]

All this stuff about maybe he took courses and maybe he's ex-military are all beside the point. When you have two people with guns and two people in between them, the chances are high someone will get hurt and the most likely victims are the innocent bystanders. It didn't happen this time and the reasons have much more to do with dumb luck and not the supposed skills of the clerk.
I'm wondering if we have any police officers or ex police officers here and what they would have done in the same circumstances.

I can absolutely guarantee you that if some moron like that guy came in to rob my restaurant with a gun and there were two people in between, there is no chance the two people would get hurt. The robber, however, would be dead, and I would have to get a pretty good cleaning service in.

[46zilzal]

That was ridiculously irresponsible shooting into a crowd like that.....Who knows who could have been outside?

[DJofSD]

That was ridiculously irresponsible shooting into a crowd like that.....Who knows who could have been outside?
Since you were not there then you do not know if there was or was not any one else in the line of fire.

[lsbets]

That was ridiculously irresponsible shooting into a crowd like that.....Who knows who could have been outside?

He didn't shoot into a crowd, he shot into the robber. It wasn't irresponsible, it was good shooting.

[GameTheory]

I'm wondering if we have any police officers or ex police officers here and what they would have done in the same circumstances.You mean like the guy that started this thread?

[boxcar]

Since you were not there then you do not know if there was or was not any one else in the line of fire.

Fools love to speculate with their nonsense.

Boxcar

[46zilzal]

Since you were not there then you do not know if there was or was not any one else in the line of fire.
Seems to me that MOST lobbies of most hotels have a steady stream of people walking in and out.....IRRESPONSIBLE maneuver to shoot at him...Better to shoot upwards just to let him know you meant business.

[johnhannibalsmith]

...Better to shoot upwards just to let him know you meant business.

Yeah, fire into the second floor and hit the patron in room 214... now that is responsibility defined...

[GameTheory]

Geez!

The RESPONSIBLE thing is not to let the question of you living or dying be left to the robber! Put him down! There was no "safe" thing to do here, the ARMED robber made sure of that..

[kroebuck67]

I wouldn't take that shot with the Mother & Baby there. If they weren't, I might give it a go, as long as the other clerk knows to drop to the floor when I say "drop". But then again, I'm no firearms expert.

[boxcar]

But then again, I'm no firearms expert.

Obviously.

Boxcar

[boxcar]

Seems to me that MOST lobbies of most hotels have a steady stream of people walking in and out.....IRRESPONSIBLE maneuver to shoot at him...Better to shoot upwards just to let him know you meant business.

Figures you'd say something like that. What in the world makes you think that the armed thief wouldn't in turn respond by showing you how he meant business after he shot you between the eyes? You're assuming the warning shot would scare the thief? :bang: :bang: :bang: You are beyond clueless! When was the last time both your feet touched the ground? :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Boxcar

[PhantomOnTour]

"Awesome, totally awesome!"
-Jeff Spicoli

[Tom]

Yeah, fire into the second floor and hit the patron in room 214... now that is responsibility defined...

Now, sir, tell me exactly how you got shot THERE! :eek::lol:

[mostpost]

Since you were not there then you do not know if there was or was not any one else in the line of fire.
HELLO!!! There was a video. We watched the video. There were two people between the clerk and the robber.

[ArlJim78]

I'm on the fence on this one. While the clerk was obviously prepared and competent with the weapon, and the outcome was the desired one, what would everyone be saying had the robber shot wildly in the air while he was stumbling to the ground and the round took the life of the mother or the girl? Everyone still okay with the clerks action?

[mostpost]

I can absolutely guarantee you that if some moron like that guy came in to rob my restaurant with a gun and there were two people in between, there is no chance the two people would get hurt. The robber, however, would be dead, and I would have to get a pretty good cleaning service in.
Really? You can guarantee that you can control what the Robber does. You can guarantee that, even if you hit him, he won't drop his gun and it won't go off and hit somebody. You can guarantee that your aim is so good. You can guarantee that the bystanders won't panic and duck right into your bullets.
you know you can't guarantee any of those things.
Stop thinking with your gun and start thinking with your head. One thing goes wrong and you don't have a restaurant any more and half of whatever salary you're making goes to pay a court judgement.

[mostpost]

I'm on the fence on this one. While the clerk was obviously prepared and competent with the weapon, and the outcome was the desired one, what would everyone be saying had the robber shot wildly in the air while he was stumbling to the ground and the round took the life of the mother or the girl? Everyone still okay with the clerks action?
Exactly my argument. Murphy's Law. If something can go wrong it will. Luckily this time it didn't.

[Rookies]

Although I believe the armed camp mentality (where virtually every citizen appears to own a gun ) prevalent in America is psychotic and insane, I generally do not oppose persons taking a stand where their life is threatened.

However, in this instance, that clerk was extraordinarily foolish. He missed that baby by less than a foot. And of course, he wasn't proficient enough to take down the armed robber, calling into question his general marksmanship and intellectual processes. But no tests for common sense and ability on the gun toting side.

What an idiot.:ThmbDown:

[PaceAdvantage]

It's good to see the good guys win once in a while.

I'm sure this clerk is going to do some time though for firing at a man running out the door. That kind of bullshit always happens...unless you're in Texas... :ThmbUp:

[boxcar]

HELLO!!! There was a video. We watched the video. There were two people between the clerk and the robber.

They were never BETWEEN the victim and the shooter. They were off to side slightly of the both of them. The woman had enough presence of mind to keep moving to her right OUT of the line of fire. Look at that video again. They were NEVER in the line of fire!

And as I suspected the clerk did have a CC permit. He had his weapon concealed on his person on his "strong side".

Boxcar

[boxcar]

Although I believe the armed camp mentality (where virtually every citizen appears to own a gun ) prevalent in America is psychotic and insane, I generally do not oppose persons taking a stand where their life is threatened.

However, in this instance, that clerk was extraordinarily foolish. He missed that baby by less than a foot. And of course, he wasn't proficient enough to take down the armed robber, calling into question his general marksmanship and intellectual processes. But no tests for common sense and ability on the gun toting side.

What an idiot.:ThmbDown:

If there's an idiot, it certainly wasn't the shooter. How in the world can you say with a straight face that he "wasn't proficient enough..." when all three of his shots hit the the thief!? And you call the shooter an idiot!? :bang: :bang: :bang: He obviously had a lot better command of his weapon than you do the video! The thief was brought down, arrested and carried off to a hospital in very serious condition.

Boxcar

[Rookies]

And shooting a gun within a foot of a baby ? Didn't quite see your response to that part ?

[GaryG]

I expected to see the "must have had a difficult childhood" defense by one of the wingnuts. One of my neighbors terminated a guy who was trying to steal his truck last week. Sheriff told him he was a good shot.

[boxcar]

And shooting a gun within a foot of a baby ? Didn't quite see your response to that part ?

Because it didn't warrant any additional explanation. Neither mother or the child were in the shooter's line of fire. End of story!

Boxcar
P.S. In case you're wondering why, it's because bullets aren't in the habit of turning corners or veering off a straight line. :rolleyes:

[Rookies]

Because it didn't warrant any additional explanation. Neither mother or the child were in the shooter's line of fire. End of story!

Boxcar
P.S. In case you're wondering why, it's because bullets aren't in the habit of turning corners or veering off a straight line. :rolleyes:

Thanks for the physics lesson Dirty Harry. My point is that HE chose to shoot within a foot of that baby AND also the mother happened to move back (but not hit the floor surprisngly). Also,BOTH the mother & baby were within inches of the armed robber, where a stray shot from him if his gun accidently discharges easily could of killed one/ both.

It is symptomatic of your blind political viewpoint that you obviously believe that this response was appropriate in the circumstances.

I repeat, it was idiotic-regardless of the fortunate outcome.

[lsbets]

Really? You can guarantee that you can control what the Robber does. You can guarantee that, even if you hit him, he won't drop his gun and it won't go off and hit somebody. You can guarantee that your aim is so good. You can guarantee that the bystanders won't panic and duck right into your bullets.
you know you can't guarantee any of those things.
Stop thinking with your gun and start thinking with your head. One thing goes wrong and you don't have a restaurant any more and half of whatever salary you're making goes to pay a court judgement.

He's at close range, he's nervous and not paying close attention to anyone. I can guarantee that he would be hit with a three round shot group center mass before he can do anything. His gun dropping and going off is not a concern to me at all in this situation. The bystanders are not in a position to duck into my line of fire if it is set up like in that video.

I'm not thinking with my gun, I'm speaking from experience. You know how to deliver and sort mail, I know a few things about firing a weapon under pressure with innocent people around. While you are highly qualified to discuss what goes into sorting and delivering mail (and I am not demeaning it, but that is where your experience lies), you are not qualified in the least to tell me what goes into shooting a weapon in a pressure situation. You wanted the opinion of people who have experience, yet because those opinions don't match what you think they should be you deem yourself the expert. That is typical of you.

[DJofSD]

Hey, Mosty, do you watch that new series on FX, "Justified"?

[DJofSD]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6XtECi5Ck1g

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SEkzK-Q0M7c&feature=related

[boxcar]

Well, this is one happy story all the way around. The armed robber gets shot up good, the bystanders weren't hurt, no bleeding hearts have had the DA press charges against the shooter...yet :rolleyes: , and the good guy lands a lot more interesting gig at a gun shop (and probably better paying, too! Gotta love it!

Boxcar

[mostpost]

[QUOTE=lsbets]He's at close range, he's nervous and not paying close attention to anyone. I can guarantee that he would be hit with a three round shot group center mass before he can do anything. His gun dropping and going off is not a concern to me at all in this situation. The bystanders are not in a position to duck into my line of fire if it is set up like in that video.

I'm not thinking with my gun, I'm speaking from experience. You know how to deliver and sort mail, I know a few things about firing a weapon under pressure with innocent people around. While you are highly qualified to discuss what goes into sorting and delivering mail (and I am not demeaning it, but that is where your experience lies), you are not qualified in the least to tell me what goes into shooting a weapon in a pressure situation. You wanted the opinion of people who have experience, yet because those opinions don't match what you think they should be you deem yourself the expert. That is typical of you.[/QUOTE
Truthfully, sorting and delivering mail is physically demanding, but not all that tough mentally. Clerks have the demanding jobs mentally. That's what I was. :lol:
This argument should not be about your proficiency with a weapon. I will stipulate to that. But, I will tell you one thing. If I am ever in your restautant and you kill me while trying to shoot a robber, I will spend eternity putting "I Love Obama " signs on your front lawn.

[boxcar]

Truthfully, sorting and delivering mail is physically demanding, but not all that tough mentally. Clerks have the demanding jobs mentally. That's what I was. :lol:

So, this is the excuse you're going to use for your mental state today? Funny...here all along I was thinking more along the lines of brain atrophy.

Boxcar

[JustRalph]

The Clerk moved into position to make the shot, no matter how close it was to the lady and kid..........he obviously thought he had the right angle and was apparently right. He went to work in a gun shop.......he obviously knows guns.

The proof is in the pudding........he made the shot. End of story.

[chickenhead]

I went back to the Art of War to attempt to settle this, and found only this:

Rapidity is the essence of war: take advantage of
the enemy's unreadiness, make your way by unexpected routes,
and attack unguarded spots.

I take this to mean the clerk should have shot the baby first. A rapid and decisive maneuver, totally unexpected and unguarded. No way that robber was ready for that.

In such a way we turn our weakness to strength, and conquer our opponent with laughable ease.

I'm no expert on the Eastern Way tho, and this is just my reading.

[JustRalph]

Oh, btw........the Robbery Suspect fired a few shots.............according the video notes

[BlueShoe]

Before starting to read this thread knew that the libs would come riding to the rescue of the thug, and they did not let us down. Coming next, the ACLU will file a lawsuit against the clerk and the hotel. One of the loons made the absurd suggestion that the clerk "should have fired a warning shot". This will get you killed, and is only done in the movies. Any person with any combat shooting training will tell you this. You do not draw a weapon unless you intend to use deadly force. You do not point a firearm unless you are prepared to fire. If you fire, you do not shoot to wound, you shoot to stop. It does not matter whether the shot is lethal or not, only that it stops the assailant. Hat is off to the clerk, wish we had more like him.

[JustRalph]

http://www.myfoxdetroit.com/dpp/news/local/good-samaritan-stops-bank-robbery-suspect

Bank Robber Captured in Detroit by CCW holder

[JustRalph]

http://www.khou.com/news/local/LIVE-VIDEO-Police-investigate-shooting-multiple-car-wreck-91655614.html

Video story on news site

HOUSTON – A wild crime spree ended in gunfire Tuesday when a citizen shot a suspect who was trying to hijack a Metro bus, Houston police said.
According to HPD, it all began at about 5:30 p.m. when Henry Hankston III, 37, carjacked a person who was visiting friends at a residence in the 5200 block of Fair Green in southeast Houston.

"Suspect had approached them, appeared to be under the influence of some kind of drugs, apparently came up and started assaulting the person and took his vehicle from him," said Sgt. Robert Torres, with HPD’s Homicide Division.
He said Hankston did not have a weapon, but used objects that he had picked up on the street.
"We were told that he was possibly on PCP, or his behavior was consistent with that of somebody who was on PCP—really hyper and extremely strong," Torres said.
Hankston fled northbound on Martin Luther King. About a block away from the carjacking, he struck the first vehicle and continued driving, Torres said.

"When he got to the intersection, he hit three other vehicles until he got to the point where his vehicle was disabled, got out of that vehicle and ran up to a bus that was turning through the intersection," Torres said.

Torres said the suspect entered the bus and began assaulting the driver, in an apparent attempt to hijack the bus, until the driver of a car idling behind the bus noticed what was happening.

"This person is a licensed concealed handgun carrier. He got out of the vehicle [and] went to the bus to try to intervene in the assault that was taking place," he said. "He did pull the suspect away from the driver and engaged in a physical confrontation with the suspect."

As the two men struggled, the gun discharged and struck the suspect in the upper abdomen, Torres said.


much more at link

[PaceAdvantage]

If we are to believe 46zilzal, let's just thank the good Lord the guy in the car didn't mistakenly grab his penis instead of his firearm.

[DJofSD]

If we are to believe 46zilzal, let's just thank the good Lord the guy in the car didn't mistakenly grab his penis instead of his firearm.
Do they know how to use either one?

[johnhannibalsmith]

If we are to believe 46zilzal, let's just thank the good Lord the guy in the car didn't mistakenly grab his penis instead of his firearm.

I think you misunderstand the easily misunderstood - he grabbed his gun because there isn't enough penis to grab - or something equally ridiculous.

[boxcar]

I think you misunderstand the easily misunderstood - he grabbed his gun because there isn't enough penis to grab - or something equally ridiculous.

Geesh...what would we do without silly zilly? For all these years I've been thinking that large handguns were popular for their stopping power. But zill informs us that it's for their grabbing power. Live and learn.... :rolleyes:

Boxcar

[hazzardm]

Clerks have the demanding jobs mentally.


Indecisive Video Customer: They say so much, but they never tell you if it's any good. Are either one of these any good? Sir?
Randal Graves: What?
Indecisive Video Customer: Are either one of these any good?
Randal Graves: I don't watch movies.
Indecisive Video Customer: Well, have you heard anything about either one of them?
Randal Graves: I find it's best to stay out of other people's affairs.
Indecisive Video Customer: You mean you haven't heard anybody say anything about either one of these?
Randal Graves: Nope.
Indecisive Video Customer: [turns around, then shows Randal the same movies] Well, what about these two?
Randal Graves: Oh, they suck.
Indecisive Video Customer: These are the same two movies! You weren't paying any attention!
Randal Graves: No, I wasn't.
Indecisive Video Customer: I don't think your manager would appreciate it if...
Randal Graves: I don't appreciate your ruse, ma'am.
Indecisive Video Customer: I beg your pardon?
Randal Graves: Your ruse. Your cunning attempt to trick me.
Indecisive Video Customer: I was only pointing out that you weren't paying any attention to what I was saying.
Randal Graves: And I hope it feels good.
Indecisive Video Customer: You hope *what* feels good?
Randal Graves: I hope it feels so good to be right. There's nothing more exhilarating than pointing out the shortcomings of others, is there?

[hazzardm]

Another one for the good guys/gals....


The 89-year-old Turner said she grabbed a handgun and told the man she would shoot if he came inside. When the man entered, she fired a single shot.

http://apnews.myway.com/article/20100422/D9F7QC501.html

[NJ Stinks]

Do they know how to use either one?

Now that comment has to violate everything decent in this world! :mad:

(That's it. That's all I've got. :))

[DJofSD]

Now that comment has to violate everything decent in this world! :mad:

(That's it. That's all I've got. :))

OK then try this one on for size:
Drill Instructor: (In cadence) This is my rifle! This is my gun!
Recruits: This is for fighting! This is for fun!
Drill Instructor: This is my rifle! This is my gun!
Recruits: This is for fighting! This is for fun!

[Greyfox]

Well, this is one happy story all the way around. The armed robber gets shot up good, the bystanders weren't hurt, no bleeding hearts have had the DA press charges against the shooter...yet :rolleyes: , and the good guy lands a lot more interesting gig at a gun shop (and probably better paying, too! Gotta love it!

Boxcar

So far so good. :ThmbUp:
If the baby's hearing is impaired and the mother needs a shrink.....

[boxcar]

So far so good. :ThmbUp:
If the baby's hearing is impaired and the mother needs a shrink.....


And if IFs and Buts were Candy and Nuts, everyday would be Christmas.

Boxcar

[fast4522]

As someone who has been a gun person for my whole adult life my inner guidance has always been with a deal that I cut with myself becoming a man. To sum it up was that I would stay out of the newspaper at all costs for as long as I could. The video at the start of the thread is not a pleasant sight, for me because honesty is I feel a pinch when anyone improperly uses a firearm. Maybe I looked wrong but the jerk was fleeing. The unlawful action of endangering others with a weapon is justification for center mass lethal shots to save a life. If someone is stupid enough to endanger everyone in a room or a place, then so be it. However if someone is "on the run" its the cops job and not the cowboys. Whatever it takes to go home at night to your wife, too bad about the stupidity that so many have. Any store owner or clerk should not involve with those in flight just to be in a gun fight no matter how many times the place is robbed. When you go home to your wife you still have to be able to sleep.

[DJofSD]

OK, so no Andy Warhol moments for you.

What makes you think a store owner's decission not to arm themselves will ensure they will be going home at the end of the day?

[fast4522]

You do not read so well, I prefer all to do so. But if you have the opportunity to let someone run without a discharge from your gun is preferable. Just because you have it does not mean you have to use it all the way. It may be the case but if you desire to stay in business you can not also be the cowboy.

[JustRalph]

He wasn't running until he was confronted with a gun and the shots started going off...........

Glad you cut a deal with yourself, which I find funny, but you seem to have viewed a different video than I did.............

you are quoting the old cop adage about going home at night to your family. If you are a cop, why not tell us? Then maybe we can change the discussion a little.

[fast4522]

I am not a cop, my views on most things are to the right or bedrock conservative with the exception of telling a woman what to do with her body.
I view things from my vantage point, which is if I had to face a judge in a court.
If you discharge your firearm 1 time or 4 times where did the bullets go? Was the first shot in the guys back because he was in flight to exit as soon as he saw your gun? Was the guy pointing his gun at you or someone else after he saw your gun or was he in flight to get the hell out of there. Do not get me wrong at all please, If i can put myself in the shoes of the store owner as we are doing with this video, then I am thinking of what is going inside the mind of the clerk as they await for the police to arrive. Granted they will always get there too late and why I feel people should have a gun and know how to use it and the law. With our rights that I enjoy as a citizen I understand the equal responsibility to the law and to others, and really to myself. Thank you for asking Ralph.

[fast4522]

Ralph,
I just watched the video 3 times as you suggested that we may have watched different clips. I saw the clerk or owner let off 3 shots maybe more into this guys back. Again do not get me wrong they may have hit the floor and not the guy, even I can not miss at that distance. I am not picking a fight with you, to shoot anyone in the back while running away is going to be a hard sell in court to any judge in any State who will also have the video.

[Pace Cap'n]

The guy has already popped off one round. How in the world do you know he is not going to stop, turn, and pop off a few more?

[fast4522]

I do know, that going home to the wife every single night means not spending a night in a cell. Which equates with the ability to be factual with the police when they get there. Its real simple, the probability the district attorney will be refereed to your actions is small. The probability the police might refer your actions to the ADA is about 50-50%. You decide if you want to be a part of the criminal justice system.

[boxcar]

I do not know that, I do know that going home to the wife every single night means not spending a night in a cell. Which equates with the ability to be factual with the police when they get there. Its real simple, the probability the district attorney will be refereed to your actions is small. The probability the police might refer your actions to the ADA is about 50/50. You decide if you want to be a part of the criminal justice system.

You still have that goin' home problem that Pace Capn raised if the guy turns around and shoots you. In those situations, most normal people's instincts are for self-preservation. The simple idea is to kill or stop the perp BEFORE he injures or kills you. If he does manage to harm you, you might not be going home for a long time.

Boxcar

[fast4522]

Having 3 rounds in someones back halfway out the door may be a problem for the police. Center mass in his chest looks open and shut (clean shoot), no room for disagreement by video tape or all in the room. And there is also the problem, most people does not equal the cop half you age questioning you. I agree with most of what you say, but the video suggests full flight of robber being shot in the back.

[boxcar]

Having 3 rounds in someones back halfway out the door may be a problem for the police. Center mass in his chest looks open and shut (clean shoot), no room for disagreement by video tape or all in the room. And there is also the problem, most people does not equal the cop half you age questioning you. I agree with most of what you say, but the video suggests full flight of robber being shot in the back.

Shame on the thief for being in the wrong place at the wrong time. But here's the good news: the good guy did society a big favor. This thief probably won't be out on the streets for a long time (except, of course, if he should appear for before a bleeding heart judge who feels empathy for criminals). :rolleyes:

Boxcar

[fast4522]

I believe in God, and I love life. That being said I could not kill the guy for running. The only mistake I would have made would be to miss him, which I doubt I would have done with less than ten feet and the formal training I was lucky to have. Not a cowboy or a cop, just someone who wants to get out of situations realistically unscathed.

[JustRalph]

If what you say is true, just take note that the clerk was not indicted.

You are wrong about shooting in the back. It happens all the time in cases like this. Including police officers. Those shots were fired in about 2 seconds and there is no time for the clerk to make the decision to stop firing because the bad guy is still in range, still present etc. You shoot until the threat is no longer in range (he can hit you from where he is) or the threat is incapacitated.

Btw, this guy (the bad guy) fired three rounds as he was backing away.

[fast4522]

Ralph what I saw did not indicate all the facts. You really have to be there in order to understand, and I am sure 3 spent bullets from this fools gun had significant weight on not the first cop to arrive but his supervisor who has the evaluating weight.

[boxcar]

I believe in God, and I love life. That being said I could not kill the guy for running. The only mistake I would have made would be to miss him, which I doubt I would have done with less than ten feet and the formal training I was lucky to have. Not a cowboy or a cop, just someone who wants to get out of situations realistically unscathed.

When did running become a crime? :bang: :bang: The guy was shot because he was an ARMED THIEF WHO WAS NOT AFRAID TO USE HIS WEAPON! What in the world is so difficult to understand about this? :bang: :bang: Or what is difficult to understand about this bible verse?:

Ex 22:2-3
2 If the thief is caught while breaking in, and is struck so that he dies, there will be no bloodguiltiness on his account.
NASB

Do you understand the implications to this text? It's teaching us that we have a GOD-given right to protect our property. And that's exactly what that clerk did -- the property of the hotel, not to mention other victims this guy would have undoubtedly tried to rob -- and perhaps even worse...injure or murder during the process. This criminal got what he deserved. He reaped what he had sown in his life. End of story.

May I suggest that perhaps you should spend less time "believing in God" (for even the demons of hell do that!) and spend more time in his Word believing him?

Boxcar

[skate]

Much more of this sort "Robber shots first" going about this country.

Reason, this country is Far Too Neo-Liberalized.

People must Carry and shot first, thanks.

Hey, if this was the first Robbery of 'It's' kind, different story.

next case...

[fast4522]

I feel we each have to do right by ourselves to live within our own skin. If the threat is out the door and I am not forced to kill so be it. I would have no reservations in protecting myself or others but will carry myself as I see fit and not what is written in scripture. In short I feel I can make several decisions without a bible, and those who base every single decision upon one are not wrapped to tight.

[skate]

at first, i thought he (clerk) wanted to abort the kid, so my view would have been 'electrocute the bum", but...:cool:

[Tom]

I feel we each have to do right by ourselves to live within our own skin. If the threat is out the door and I am not forced to kill so be it. I would have no reservations in protecting myself or others.....

Shooting him as he was leaving falls under protecting others. He put himself in that situation, his problem.

[JustRalph]

Ralph what I saw did not indicate all the facts. You really have to be there in order to understand, and I am sure 3 spent bullets from this fools gun had significant weight on not the first cop to arrive but his supervisor who has the evaluating weight.


Actually they make the initial decision on whether to arrest at the scene. But the Prosecutor in Franklin County decides whether or not to go to a grand jury.

All in all......you got it right. No way this guy gets indicted. I haven't looked it up to see what happen except that I know the guy wasn't tried.

[boxcar]

I feel we each have to do right by ourselves to live within our own skin. If the threat is out the door and I am not forced to kill so be it. I would have no reservations in protecting myself or others but will carry myself as I see fit and not what is written in scripture. In short I feel I can make several decisions without a bible, and those who base every single decision upon one are not wrapped to tight.

I'm wrapped a lot tighter than those who don't believe God! Don't believe this? Look at the misery, chaos and suffering in the world brought upon those who choose their own paths. Read the OT sometime and find out about all the miseries and suffering that befell Israel's because "every man did what was right in his own eyes" in Israel. The number one problem in the world is godlessness.

Want more proof? Look at socialism in the world and what's going on in this country. The Have Nots think they are entitled to the fruit of the labors of the Haves. They think nothing about stealing from others through the proxy of government. But what is the biblical solution to the economic inequality in the world? Contentment with what we have -- and with thanksgiving, yet, to the Lord! But this is not a solution with the godless, is it? They, too, want to do what is right in their own eyes. And in this country, it's causing great divisions currently, isn't it?

Having said this, Mr. Fast, I do respect one's personal conscience. (t might surprise you but the bible, too, addresses this very issue of conscience!) As you have said, you have to live in your own skin -- you have to live with yourself. And I can respect that and fully understand it. But it appears that you have a problem understanding the other side of this kind of issue. There are those of us (including non-believers, which most here are) whose consciences are "more fully developed" (for lack of a better phrase) perhaps because of better moral/spiritual discernment, thanks to God's common grace. There are people on this forum who intuitively know (because we are moral beings and have God's law written in our hearts whether we realize it or not) that stealing in all forms is morally wrong. But even more than this -- that we have a right (although non-believers would have a problem identifying the source of this right) to protect what is our own.

Just remember, Fast...the demons believe, too, and shudder (Jas 2:19).

Boxcar