See anything Wrong with this picture?

[JustRalph]

I walked in and looked at the video feed and saw that the horse I liked was scratched so I left the room and was listening to the call out on the deck when I realized the horse I liked was coming down the stretch leading........ :bang:

[Greyfox]

# 11 was scratched.

[JustRalph]

maybe I am blind.......but the scratched horse appears to have won the race

[Greyfox]

maybe I am blind.......but the scratched horse appears to have won the race

They didn't want you to bet it. That's all. :D

[PaceAdvantage]

I've noticed at times that with that TwinSpires TV interface, it can accidentally "pick up" scratches from other races you may have just been looking at...that's the only way I could explain what I was seeing. If you refresh the race, it might correct itself.

Of course, all this does nothing to correct what amounts to a SERIOUS issue with their wagering platform.

I suggest you email them that picture Ralph...and a link to this thread. That ought to get their attention...

[RaceTrackDaddy]

They were not the only ones to do that. I recall when I was XpressBet I was betting the WVa Derby Day card from home and mixing gaming with yard work. The horse I wanted to bet, the 7, was listed scratched. Guess what he won. I wrote about it in an editorial and will post for your inspection:


Editorial
September 23, 2005



It has become apparent that the horse racing patron is at risk in Pennsylvania. A company, Xpressbet, which provides online wagering in this state, can and did provide false information on scratches, which misleads the customer to wager on another.


On August 14th of this year, one so-called company did post the horse Immediate Reaction as scratched (would not race) in the 9th race at Mountaineer Park. Said scratched horse did in fact win said race going wire
to wire. Quite a feat for a horse not supposed to be entered.

http://mysite.verizon.net/r.zanakis/moutaineer.jpg

http://mysite.verizon.net/r.zanakis/wva_9th_results.jpg



After going through the so-called legal process, the law sided with the business. It is now apparent that an entity that accepts wagers online, phone or in person, can provide the customer any kind of false information (whether it is intentional to manipulate odds or just a mistake), which cause a monetary hardship upon the customer.

The only solution as I see fit is to take our preverbal "ball and bat" and move the game offshore. There are many legal outfits offshore where we can play ball. Not only horse racing but sports wagering as well.

These offshore wagering venues offers rebates; some up to 10 percent of what is wagered today will be added to your account tomorrow. So in the future, if you feel you got the short end of the deal, you still have options like to move to offshore accounts. Of course the state and tracks will not longer get their cut, you get the cut in the form of rebates. Does that not appeal more to you, having more money in your pocket?


Bob Zanakis
Editor






</B>

[Ian Meyers]

It happens way more often than you think. When I ran PTC I monitored every track feed and could manually correct our system in the event of a incorrect scratch being reported in the tote feed. Same thing for a surface/distance change.

I can't tell you what ADWs (if any) are doing that now but it's a pretty big deal to get that kind of thing wrong and it happens at least a few times every month.

[DeanT]

I assume the odds were wrong as well?

110 buck tri for a 4-1 onto 9-1 onto 8-1 seems short unless you are playing Turkey takeouts.

[Greyfox]

I assume the odds were wrong as well?

110 buck tri for a 4-1 onto 9-1 onto 8-1 seems short unless you are playing Turkey takeouts.
Agreed.
I thought the same. First of all, I felt that horse that the public can't bet because they think it is scratched should pay a lot higher than 4-1.
Secondly, # 9 ran second and the place price is close to the # 11.
Something is rotten in Denmark here and it ain't just cheese.

[ronsmac]

No rebate means losing player , period.

[OTM Al]

They had a mistake on the Keenland all stakes P4 Saturday as well. Second leg had all the entries from somewhere else. At least though you could only pick 1-5, which was correct. Not that this helped me in any way....

[PhantomOnTour]

Call Twin Spires and raise holy hell...request some extra club points or whatever, but don't let this sit. I can speak from experience that raising 50 kinds of hell will get you some sort of consolation....I've done it with Twin Spires and it works. They double deposited and EZ Money transaction (took the amount out of my bank twice) and when I told them about it they reversed the transaction.....











...then the morons left the money in my Twin Spires account :ThmbUp:
:lol: :lol: :lol:
Don't tell them about this please.

[JustRalph]

I emailed them.....haven't heard anything back...........


Ralph

[JustRalph]

They refuse to acknowledge my emails.........

[The_Knight_Sky]

They refuse to acknowledge my emails.........





I just read this upon your recommendation.
Not a good example of customer service.

Have there been other cases of false reporting (or confusion) in the interim?

[olddaddy]

I emailed them.....haven't heard anything back...........


Ralph

Same thing happened to me awhile back on a Aussie race. I emailed them and never got a response. I didn't press the issue because I only had a deuce on the race.

[JustRalph]

I just read this upon your recommendation.
Not a good example of customer service.

Have there been other cases of false reporting (or confusion) in the interim?

not that I have noticed........I usually don't bet 10 dollar horses, but having the option I might have been on this one prior to the bell when he was probably 5-1 or so.........who knows...........

[ralph_the_cat]

Happened with TVG last year... dont have the race or day, but I know it was a California track, on the turf, wanna say maybe SA, on the down hill course... horse didnt do anything, so no one made a big deal about it... so this has happened with most major companies

[Market Mover]

They were not the only ones to do that. I recall when I was XpressBet I was betting the WVa Derby Day card from home and mixing gaming with yard work. The horse I wanted to bet, the 7, was listed scratched. Guess what he won. I wrote about it in an editorial and will post for your inspection:


Editorial
September 23, 2005



It has become apparent that the horse racing patron is at risk in Pennsylvania. A company, Xpressbet, which provides online wagering in this state, can and did provide false information on scratches, which misleads the customer to wager on another.


On August 14th of this year, one so-called company did post the horse Immediate Reaction as scratched (would not race) in the 9th race at Mountaineer Park. Said scratched horse did in fact win said race going wire
to wire. Quite a feat for a horse not supposed to be entered.

http://mysite.verizon.net/r.zanakis/moutaineer.jpg

http://mysite.verizon.net/r.zanakis/wva_9th_results.jpg



After going through the so-called legal process, the law sided with the business. It is now apparent that an entity that accepts wagers online, phone or in person, can provide the customer any kind of false information (whether it is intentional to manipulate odds or just a mistake), which cause a monetary hardship upon the customer.

The only solution as I see fit is to take our preverbal "ball and bat" and move the game offshore. There are many legal outfits offshore where we can play ball. Not only horse racing but sports wagering as well.

These offshore wagering venues offers rebates; some up to 10 percent of what is wagered today will be added to your account tomorrow. So in the future, if you feel you got the short end of the deal, you still have options like to move to offshore accounts. Of course the state and tracks will not longer get their cut, you get the cut in the form of rebates. Does that not appeal more to you, having more money in your pocket?


Bob Zanakis
Editor






</B>


How could this example, or the glaring and disturbing example above by twinspires, not constitute a legitimate case in a court of law? Would there not be grounds based on fraud by deception, or the like?

This question goes out to anyone with legal experience in this sort of thing. When an ADW scratches a live entry, or does not allow that entry to be selected in vertical or horizontal wagers, can they be held liable?

It's like blocking some numbers on the roulette table so you can't put your money down, but allowing the ball to spin on that wheel freely....how can this be legal?

[horses721]

I walked in and looked at the video feed and saw that the horse I liked was scratched so I left the room and was listening to the call out on the deck when I realized the horse I liked was coming down the stretch leading........ :bang:
In all the years that I've been with twisnpsires, it has only happened to me once and that was a few weeks ago. I called immediately after the race and they refunded all bets on the race. Luckily for me, I wouldn't have won the race so I lucked out with the refund.

[Market Mover]

In all the years that I've been with twisnpsires, it has only happened to me once and that was a few weeks ago. I called immediately after the race and they refunded all bets on the race. Luckily for me, I wouldn't have won the race so I lucked out with the refund.


What kind of ADW is so twisted that it has to force patrons to arm themselves with camera to catch non-wagering live options to prove that there is something very wrong with the system?

Is this legal?

[showbet]

In today's 10th race at Northlands Park, the #10 horse, Bear Ing Promises, was listed as a scratch on Wagerpad. He was an also-eligible who got into the race. I checked the Twin Spires program for this race and he is not scratched there, but I could not bet on him via Wagerpad.

In the attached screenshot you can see the line through his name on Wagerpad, him leading the race (he ended up winning), and his odds on the toteboard.

[JustRalph]

been a bad week for Twinspires

[Market Mover]

In today's 10th race at Northlands Park, the #10 horse, Bear Ing Promises, was listed as a scratch on Wagerpad. He was an also-eligible who got into the race. I checked the Twin Spires program for this race and he is not scratched there, but I could not bet on him via Wagerpad.

In the attached screenshot you can see the line through his name on Wagerpad, him leading the race (he ended up winning), and his odds on the toteboard.


...when presented in a court of law as evidence?

So if I sit down at a blackjack table and the dealer takes out all the face cards and then starts dealing, have I no legal recourse when I find out what has truly happened?

Please somebody with law experience speak what you know...

[OverlayHunter]

I'm not an attorney so take this as an educated guess. I believe within the terms of service THAT YOU AND I HAVE TO AGREE TO in order to wager on the site, they probably have this covered. I'm not saying it's fair or right, but I believe that to be the case.

[JustRalph]

I'm not an attorney so take this as an educated guess. I believe within the terms of service THAT YOU AND I HAVE TO AGREE TO in order to wager on the site, they probably have this covered. I'm not saying it's fair or right, but I believe that to be the case.

I am sure they have an "out" built into the terms somewhere........

[Stillriledup]

...when presented in a court of law as evidence?

So if I sit down at a blackjack table and the dealer takes out all the face cards and then starts dealing, have I no legal recourse when I find out what has truly happened?

Please somebody with law experience speak what you know...

For some reason, the racing industry is exempt from real life laws. Trainers and jockeys can tamper with sporting contests and won't ever have to worry about the FBI knocking on their door. Trainers can stick illegal chemicals into the horse's bodies, tamper with the contest and never have to answer to real life, they take care of it in house with a wrist slap.

Companies, in all walks of life, have the ability to add a 'disclaimer' that basically says if we screw up, its YOUR problem.

[discodog]

What would be the most reliable ADW in the US?

[discodog]

Anyone know anything about IdaBet out in Oregon?