So i want to Claim (buy) a horse. Where do i begin?

[Zippy Chippy]

Its always been a dream of mine to buy a horse and watch him race. I can't imagine the thrill. Ive come across a bit of money (not a fortune) and want to buy a horse. I literally do not know where to begin. How much it costs to maintain the horse, race him, etc. Maybe im jumping into it too soon but i figure atleast if I know some info about this it will give me a headstart. I dont really understand the claiming part of races. I never understood how there will be a 7 year old horse with 100 races run and there are 3 claims on him. Dont you pretty much know what kind of horse he is? Any info on this would be appreciated.

[startngate]

It's hard to give you the information you need without knowing where you are located and what your budget is. For example, day rates for training vary widely depending on where the horse is stabled.

TOBA has some great information, so I would suggest you start here:

http://www.toba.org/owner-education/

They also host New Owner's seminars.

http://www.toba.org/programs/seminars-and-clinics.aspx

The best advice I can give you is to find a good trainer first. That's going to take a lot of research on your part. In order to make a claim, you will need to get licensed as an owner. In some States you have to take out a conditional licence to claim a horse, and some States allow 'open claims'. You will need to study the rules where you intend to claim the horse to race. You will also have to deposit enough money in a horsemen's bookkeeper's account to cover the claim and any taxes (if required).

The claiming game is tough ... especially for people that are not experienced. That 7 year old with multiple claims might be a very good horse to own because it's hitting the board and cashing checks regularly. If a mare, she could be a good breeding prospect. Don't let the age of the animal fool you, which brings me to my next bit of advice ...

And most importantly ... never fall in love with a race horse. They are not pets, they are not your kids. Too many owners do this and it will hurt your bottom line. I know it's hard, because they are beautiful animals, but you can't be afraid to run horses where they belong, or to make the right decisions about buying and selling. Falling in love will just ensure you lose a lot of money.

[Zippy Chippy]

It's hard to give you the information you need without knowing where you are located and what your budget is. For example, day rates for training vary widely depending on where the horse is stabled.

TOBA has some great information, so I would suggest you start here:

http://www.toba.org/owner-education/

They also host New Owner's seminars.

http://www.toba.org/programs/seminars-and-clinics.aspx

The best advice I can give you is to find a good trainer first. That's going to take a lot of research on your part. In order to make a claim, you will need to get licensed as an owner. In some States you have to take out a conditional licence to claim a horse, and some States allow 'open claims'. You will need to study the rules where you intend to claim the horse to race. You will also have to deposit enough money in a horsemen's bookkeeper's account to cover the claim and any taxes (if required).

The claiming game is tough ... especially for people that are not experienced. That 7 year old with multiple claims might be a very good horse to own because it's hitting the board and cashing checks regularly. If a mare, she could be a good breeding prospect. Don't let the age of the animal fool you, which brings me to my next bit of advice ...

And most importantly ... never fall in love with a race horse. They are not pets, they are not your kids. Too many owners do this and it will hurt your bottom line. I know it's hard, because they are beautiful animals, but you can't be afraid to run horses where they belong, or to make the right decisions about buying and selling. Falling in love will just ensure you lose a lot of money.

THanks. Who knows i may not do this for 5 years. I just wanna start learning

[Robert Goren]

You start by seeing a mental heath professional.;)

[onefast99]

Stay within your means, many an owner has reached for the stars early in the game only to be left with a bad experience. Starngate is right that 7 yo claimer who seems to find his way to a different barn each and every time he runs is earning money for its owners and is considered a hot claim. Beware of the drop downs as someone else is trying to rid themselves of a horse who may carry a lot of costs with the vet. Never be afraid to ask questions, the more you know the less of a chance that someone will take advantage of you.

[ManeMediaMogul]

Here is a link to the Thoroughbred Owners and Breeders Association (TOBA) new owner website. It might answer some of your questions.

http://www.theracinggame.com/default.aspx

Here are a couple of new owner articles you might find interesting and/or inspiring:

http://www.racehorsereport.com/2002/01/14/the-claiming-game-schlesinger-bags-a-one-rocket/

http://www.racehorsereport.com/2005/01/13/cheers-for-red/

[Brogan]

Give the board your location...I'm sure you'll get some recommendations about who might be a good trainer for you.

I'd advise you NOT to get involved in a bigger training operation, they won't have the time or the inclination to devote to keeping you informed. As a first timer, your relationship with the trainer will be very important.

Startngate hit the nail pretty squarely on the head...race horses are not pets. We all have our favorites, but in the end its a business.

[Fager Fan]

Its always been a dream of mine to buy a horse and watch him race. I can't imagine the thrill. Ive come across a bit of money (not a fortune) and want to buy a horse. I literally do not know where to begin. How much it costs to maintain the horse, race him, etc. Maybe im jumping into it too soon but i figure atleast if I know some info about this it will give me a headstart. I dont really understand the claiming part of races. I never understood how there will be a 7 year old horse with 100 races run and there are 3 claims on him. Dont you pretty much know what kind of horse he is? Any info on this would be appreciated.

There are different ways to go depending on your goals. As you point out about the 7yo, that's indeed a horse that you know exactly what he is, so he won't be jumping up and winning G1s for you in all likelihood. But that horse can be a safe investment, being a sound, honest horse who you can have a little fun with and probably not lose your shirt. Of course, you might not own him for long if he's popular at the claim box.

If I were advising anyone on getting into the business, the absolute first order of business is to find someone you trust who will steer you towards the good, honest people in the sport. That's absolutely where so many people get burned, getting involved with people who don't care at all about you but how dealing with you can benefit them. And believe me, there are plenty of those people, including ones with good reputations.

It's experience that teaches, so diving in by owning your own horse outright will teach you the most. You might want to consider going into partnership with a friend or two to help with the expenses.

I'd find a trainer I trust, racing at the circuit I want to race on (do you want the horse racing near you so you can see him a lot?). If you want to claim, you want a trainer who is good at claiming the right horses. If you want to buy, you want one who will go with you to the sales and find a horse in your price range -- and won't be working any side deals with the consignors and such. With that trainer, you want him to have a good eye and track record picking out yearlings or two year olds in training. Don't accept any deal that gives him a percentage of the purchase price as commission -- his stake is and should be buying you the best horse possible because he'll be training it.

Regarding costs, expect $30,000 to $50,000 a year, depending on the circuit. Be aware that if your horse ends up with a fracture or chip, you could find yourself with a several thousand vet bill. Worse, if your horse ends up with pneumonia or E Coli or such, you could easily be looking at a $15,000 vet bill. So unexpected expenses can crop up in addition to the yearly costs of training, farrier, vanning, etc.

Good luck to you, and feel free to PM me if you want to pick my brain any further. Depending on where you're located, I might be able to point you in the way of a few trainers who I'd recommend as good, honest trainers who take good care of their horses.

[Greyfox]

You start by seeing a mental heath professional.;)

:ThmbUp: :lol: :lol: :lol: I luv it.

[DJofSD]

I have friends that have partial interest in a few horses. They've found the arrangement to their liking and have been doing it for ten years (or more).

For the cost of keeping one runner in which you are the total owner, you can have partial interest in many, depending upon the per centages. It will give you a lot more opportunities to get into the winners circle. Plus, you spread out your risk.

[FantasticDan]

Topic was discussed a couple weeks ago.. may be helpful:

http://www.paceadvantage.com/forum/showthread.php?t=67567

[Zippy Chippy]

Give the board your location...I'm sure you'll get some recommendations about who might be a good trainer for you.

I'd advise you NOT to get involved in a bigger training operation, they won't have the time or the inclination to devote to keeping you informed. As a first timer, your relationship with the trainer will be very important.

Startngate hit the nail pretty squarely on the head...race horses are not pets. We all have our favorites, but in the end its a business.

I live in Boston

[Rackon]

I have friends that have partial interest in a few horses. They've found the arrangement to their liking and have been doing it for ten years (or more).

For the cost of keeping one runner in which you are the total owner, you can have partial interest in many, depending upon the per centages. It will give you a lot more opportunities to get into the winners circle. Plus, you spread out your risk.

This is how we've gotten several friends into the race horse business and kept them happy. We also started in racing this way ourselves 30 years ago.

The same cautions as outlined above still apply (you must hook up with the right people), but with this method you are at least sharing the risk. These syndicates and partnerships function at all levels of the game, from a stable of claimers at a local track all the way to allowance, stakes and Derby contenders (Fantasy Lane, West Point) at the major meets. Since you are new to horses and racing, multiple ownership might be a safer route, always assuming you get hooked up with good people.

There's a lot of fun to be had at all levels of the game. I've made the best friends of my life in the horse business. But DO NOT invest more money than you feel comfortable losing. I've had years we turned a good profit and other years we lost a tidy chunk. Whatever you invest, feel comfortable with what you're spending. No guarantee you will ever see a dime back. The spending in this business can be unlimted. Be realistic, set a budget with the help of a seasoned pro and stick with it. Always include a little extra cushion money for the unepxpected and emergency (bone chip surgery). If you come close to breaking even you're doing great.

Just be sure to do your homework. Start out investing a little and see if you like it and it's a good fit for you.

Good luck and welcome to the club! :jump:

[onefast99]

I live in Boston
So Suffolk is your track, lamboguy has a few trainers to recommend to you he will be on here later. He may also be able to steer you to a decent claimer. Good luck and let us know when you are in a race so we can root for you.

[Mineshaft]

I live in Boston





Nothing against Suffolk but the purses arent great and it might be very hard to turn a profit there.


Would you be willing to claim in New York or New Jersey would be your best bet?

If you dont want to see your horse run then there are some tracks out there that have excellent purses.

[Trotman]

Zippy not to burst your bubble but you just hung out the sign that says fresh meat

[Mineshaft]

How much are you willing to spend on a horse?


I think 10K would get you a nice horse.


You have to give us more info.

[Hanover1]

You are headed in the right direction by getting informed first. Keep in mind that partners do keep your costs down, but you also are splitting the purses with them as well. So running for a 12k purse, IF you win, the horse earns 60%, and it must be split between the group, and out of that share of yours, comes the costs as well. Learn to read a DRF or other forms of past performance on several horses in your price range around the time you hunt up a trainer. Be leary of tips from others on claiming horses, and do the homework yourself. Look for horses in your range that show CONSISTENT in the money lines, and avoid horses that have long layoffs between starts, even if consistent. It indicates a game but lame horse. Each start could be his last. I had a 20k claimer that won 7 in a row in Jersey, for good coin, however he was rank, mean, and ran sore, and everybody knew it, so he never got claimed. He ran with a bowed tendon, and it took 90-100 days between starts to tighten him up enough to go. Needless to say, he was hard on himself with his demeanor, and his last start was indeed his last start. Keep in mind also that there is a reason these horses run for tags. Its generally because they cannot compete at a high enough level to join allowance company and show a profit. If you are game, and flush enough however, some times a decent horse, especially during this time of year, will enter for a tag of 40k upwards just to get a soft start rather than fill a tight, tough allowance field. It takes some knowledge of breeding, and some inside info on how these horses are working, along with understanding trainer intent, before attempting a claim of this sort however. Remember, Lava Man ran for a tag at one time, and several Derby starters have as well, in the past. All the best of luck to you, sir. Feel free to contact me if you ever have any questions.
I forgot to mention avoiding big drops, unless it appears a logical fit based on what you have learned reading the past performances. It usually indicates intent to unload a horse rather that win a purse. You will soon learn what a master claimer type trainer does vs a bush track type.

[JohnGalt1]

One thing I read on some forums from owners or syndicates is whatever you pay for a horse have three times as much in reserve.

Spend $20k for one or two horses, have 60k in the bank.

I don't know if it's too conservative or too reckless as I've never owned a horse.

I do know that as a handicapper I want a large reserve with my betting to get through the losing streaks, and i would assume an owner with greater expenses and more unknowns needs a larger reserve.

[onefast99]

One thing I read on some forums from owners or syndicates is whatever you pay for a horse have three times as much in reserve.

Spend $20k for one or two horses, have 60k in the bank.

I don't know if it's too conservative or too reckless as I've never owned a horse.

I do know that as a handicapper I want a large reserve with my betting to get through the losing streaks, and i would assume an owner with greater expenses and more unknowns needs a larger reserve.
Whether he buys a 5k claimer or a 50k claimer he will average 3k per month in costs including the vet, trainers day rate, supplements and misc. Having 9k in the bank to keep him going for 90 days sounds about right.

[Trotman]

Onefast99 your right about the 3k per month but don't
include the misc. The misc is the grey zone which is the weekly blood sometimes 2-3 times per week, what works and what won't show. You add that in your almost 50k per
year and that's not including what the trainer is buying.

[eastie]

Nothing against Suffolk but the purses arent great and it might be very hard to turn a profit there.


Would you be willing to claim in New York or New Jersey would be your best bet?

If you dont want to see your horse run then there are some tracks out there that have excellent purses.


It's his first hoss.....I think he probably would like to see him run. He would also probably like to go to the barn in the morning on occasion too to see his horse. Claiming a horse at the track 5 minutes away is more up his alley, though a nice ky bred maiden claimer would have good spots in which to run at suffolk. When we get slots up here, I'll be making a trip to KY to get some stock to bring north.

[Greyfox]

Whether he buys a 5k claimer or a 50k claimer he will average 3k per month in costs including the vet, trainers day rate, supplements and misc. .

Your 3k might be a little high.
I'm looking at today's 8 th Race at Santa Anita.
It is carded for cheap $ 8,000 claimers, 4 years old and up.
There are 10 horses entered.
Only 1 of those 10 earned more than 12 x 3 = $ 36,000 last year.
Nine earned less than that and would have lost money.
If your 3 k estimate is correct, are most of these owners using these steeds as tax write offs? I don't own horses, so I'm wondering about the economics here.
(I would assume that costs at Santa Anita are higher than some b track elsewhere.)

[onefast99]

Onefast99 your right about the 3k per month but don't
include the misc. The misc is the grey zone which is the weekly blood sometimes 2-3 times per week, what works and what won't show. You add that in your almost 50k per
year and that's not including what the trainer is buying.
trainer $65 a day =1950.00
vet $500
shoes $150
misc $400=3k
Add a few supplements and a worming paste and maybe that equates to another $300 a month give or take a few bucks.
Pony to post is another $30. You are right there could be a grey zone, but 14k worth?

[DJofSD]

Your 3k might be a little high.
I'm looking at today's 8 th Race at Santa Anita.
It is carded for cheap $ 8,000 claimers, 4 years old and up.
There are 10 horses entered.
Only 1 of those 10 earned more than 12 x 3 = $ 36,000 last year.
Nine earned less than that and would have lost money.
If your 3 k estimate is correct, are most of these owners using these steeds as tax write offs? I don't own horses, so I'm wondering about the economics here.
(I would assume that costs at Santa Anita are higher than some b track elsewhere.)

I thought most tax write offs went out the window in ~1996. Yes? No?

[Greyfox]

I thought most tax write offs went out the window in ~1996. Yes? No?
I don't know. I'm asking too.
Why would 9 of the 10 owners in Race 8 at SA lose money with these cheap nags? It can't be for ego.

[5k-claim]

It's his first hoss.....I think he probably would like to see him run. He would also probably like to go to the barn in the morning on occasion too to see his horse. Claiming a horse at the track 5 minutes away is more up his alley, though a nice ky bred maiden claimer would have good spots in which to run at suffolk. When we get slots up here, I'll be making a trip to KY to get some stock to bring north.

Hi Zippy Chippy, you are definitely on the right path getting feedback like this. There is a lot of good advice in these replies, and my $.02 would probably echo these ideas from eastie. The advice in other posts to use personal introductions and referrals to find a trainer that you can feel comfortable with, and trust, is critically important.

So two of the (many) things that you could think about at this early stage are:

(1) Who do I know that has relationships with some of the trainers that I may want to hire? Even the proverbial "friend of a friend" would hopefully be better than nothing in this regard. You are definitely going to want to be able to feel as comfortable as possible with the person who is going to be taking care of your horse and making out part of your bills! Trust is key.

(2) Please, please find some way to enjoy the daily process and journey of owning your horse in addition to the financial bottom line. I cannot tell you how you should enjoy your own journey, that is entirely up to you. I can just say that you will probably want to do it. If you could see yourself enjoying the journey with a horse in another state that you hardly ever see in person, then great... lots of people do that and enjoy the heck out of it! If on the other hand you wanted a little more "hands on" with your horse, then that is great, too. Maybe you want to be able to visit occasionally and cool out your own horse after it tracks? Either way, at the end of the day it may be the case that the pile of memories that you have collected along the way with your horse will be taller than the pile of money that you have collected. And if that does turn out to be the case, then the memories pile of a horse that you took the time to enjoy and a trainer that you trusted will be able to keep at least some sort of smile on your face and maybe keep you in the game for another shot at it. It really is sad when people have a bad first experience.

Good luck!

[Greyfox]

Hi Zippy Chippy, you are definitely on the right path getting feedback like this. ....Good luck!

5k-claim :ThmbUp: :ThmbUp: What a nice first post. Welcome aboard.

[Rackon]

Hi Zippy Chippy, you are definitely on the right path getting feedback like this. There is a lot of good advice in these replies, and my $.02 would probably echo these ideas from eastie. The advice in other posts to use personal introductions and referrals to find a trainer that you can feel comfortable with, and trust, is critically important.

So two of the (many) things that you could think about at this early stage are:

(1) Who do I know that has relationships with some of the trainers that I may want to hire? Even the proverbial "friend of a friend" would hopefully be better than nothing in this regard. You are definitely going to want to be able to feel as comfortable as possible with the person who is going to be taking care of your horse and making out part of your bills! Trust is key.

(2) Please, please find some way to enjoy the daily process and journey of owning your horse in addition to the financial bottom line. I cannot tell you how you should enjoy your own journey, that is entirely up to you. I can just say that you will probably want to do it. If you could see yourself enjoying the journey with a horse in another state that you hardly ever see in person, then great... lots of people do that and enjoy the heck out of it! If on the other hand you wanted a little more "hands on" with your horse, then that is great, too. Maybe you want to be able to visit occasionally and cool out your own horse after it tracks? Either way, at the end of the day it may be the case that the pile of memories that you have collected along the way with your horse will be taller than the pile of money that you have collected. And if that does turn out to be the case, then the memories pile of a horse that you took the time to enjoy and a trainer that you trusted will be able to keep at least some sort of smile on your face and maybe keep you in the game for another shot at it. It really is sad when people have a bad first experience.

Good luck!

Very nicely put.

You can't put a price on fun...or memories. We've done all right over the years but I never recommend anyone get into racing to make money.

[Trotman]

Onefast99 I've still got copies of my trainers bills and cancelled cheques for the misc,and yes it just shy of 50k.
I'm not complaining as I did do better than most,but I
thought better to distance myself from this trainer. When
you're winning you look the other way but I still want to own again so some went private sale and two claimed.When I first got in it was different and did'nt do
any good so I had the cash and played their game and did
well.

[onefast99]

Onefast99 I've still got copies of my trainers bills and cancelled cheques for the misc,and yes it just shy of 50k.
I'm not complaining as I did do better than most,but I
thought better to distance myself from this trainer. When
you're winning you look the other way but I still want to own again so some went private sale and two claimed.When I first got in it was different and did'nt do
any good so I had the cash and played their game and did
well.
Enjoy them while you have them. Good luck.