Lost art?

[Valuist]

I'm amazed at the number of people at the track who start their handicapping when they get to the track. Either they are too lazy to handicap beforehand, or aren't capable. Many just seem to be content playing numbers. It seems like we've spawned a nation of gimmick bettors who are adept at filling out Pic 6 tickets but who are clueless on pace shapes, par times, and post parade inspection. At the Gold Coast tourney this past weekend, I was shocked that a decent number of people hadn't done any preparation before they walked in. I guess this is what simulcasting has created; just an equine slot machine.

[Kentucky Bred]

Think of all the players who don't ever handicap at all before betting.

Kentucky Bred

[sq764]

"Either they are too lazy to handicap beforehand, or aren't capable"

I think you left out a third possibility.. Maybe they didn't have time to handicap before they got there, possibly they had to work??

If it takes someone 20 minutes to cap a race, what is the difference if they do it at home or between races?

[Valuist]

Not all races are handicappable in 20 minutes and I would say most full fields are definitely not. I like to consult the Weekly Charts to handicap and I don't like to be encumbered by them at the track.

[alysheba88]

Valuist, I hear what you are saying but that's still not an excuse. I work during the week. If I am going to the track on a Saturday I will handicap the card Friday night (after my daughter is put to bed). From 9-1 am.

There are too many other things a player should be doing while at the track to be worried about handicapping. Watching the board, replays, the horses. Devising betting strategies (some of this work should have done the night before too, but not all as you have to adjust to the odds). Adjusting to scratches. Looking for biases.

The more prepared you are when you enter the track the better off you are. Am a big believer in that. If someone doesn't have time to prepare they simply should not go that day.

[Show Me the Wire]

Originally posted by alysheba88 (MW)
Am a big believer in that. If someone doesn't have time to prepare they simply should not go that day.

You eliminated 90% plus of the patrons.

Regards,
Show Me the Wire

Perception is reality

[alysheba88]

Show me. I am talking to the other 10% here:)

I like an ignorant public. At the same time, we all need them. A game of sharps against sharps is not something I enjoy parimutuelly.

[Valuist]

I also notice it seems like the majority of people at the track or simo outlet just use a simulcast program and not the Form. I don't think seeing just 4 or 5 races in a past performance is enough. Also I find the print too small to read, even with Lasik corrected 20/30 vision. Its convenient but not real thorough. Then of course you hear the obligatory "c'mon number 4, go number 4." The game has just changed a lot in the past 10 years.

[alysheba88]

Very very true. Some of the programs only contain the last race too. Amazing to me. How they will "save" $ by not buying the form or some other aid, and then throw away their $ on bets. Guys asking you how long is this race after its started and they have $ on it. Gotta love em.

[Lefty]

Like "88" said, "shhh," we need these people. It's parimutuel, we need all the "dumb" money in the pool we can get. At the racebook I frequent you can get a form for $1 and get that $1 back when you turn form in. YET, several people throughout the day, 2 min before a race will rush to where the free forms are on a table and practically push ea other out of the way to see the one they want, peruse it a minute or less and rush to the "writers" to make their bet.
Gotta love 'em.

[Handy Cap]

Alls I have to say to this barrage of stupidity and nonscense is SO WHAT...

SO WHAT, would it be better for all of you so called and self proclaimed proffesionals if these people werent in the pools? For most, Horse Racing is for enjoyment and entertainment, not sitting there going gray over what a horse did 3 years ago at a particular distance in a particular class. This is probably the most egotistical, senseless post I have seen on this board.

Most people have lives. They dont have the time to sit here and ponder over if a jockey change is going to improve the horse by a hundreth of a second.

This subject is just absolutely sickening, and in my mind, these types of people are part of the reason why horse racing is a dying sport.

[Show Me the Wire]

Handy Cap:

Some of the people who wager for a living, that I personally know do not handicap until they arrive at the race track and others do their work the night or weeks before. If you do it for a living it is work and it depends on your work habits.

I agree with you it is not better to hold others to the standards you set for yourself.

BTW what is different about making yourself old and gray trying to make your employer more profitable or worrying about if the jock change will benefit the horse? Not saying this is applies to you, but it seems comprable to me.

Regards,
Show me the Wire

Perception is reality

[JustRalph]

Originally posted by Valuist
I also notice it seems like the majority of people at the track or simo outlet just use a simulcast program and not the Form. I don't think seeing just 4 or 5 races in a past performance is enough. Also I find the print too small to read, even with Lasik corrected 20/30 vision. Its convenient but not real thorough. Then of course you hear the obligatory "c'mon number 4, go number 4." The game has just changed a lot in the past 10 years.

I watched people play with just the form from the track for years. In this day and age there is no excuse for not having a decent race form. Even with a dialup connection you can get a much better form than what the track sells. The DRF is ok but I can download the form sometimes 4 days early. Print it and have 3 days or more to work on it. Bump to a decent software program and you have tons more info than the everyday at the track player. It is an incredible advantage in my opine. Print it out on a laser printer for about 2.5 cents a sheet if you buy in bulk. Carry it around with you if you want. I have found that the waiting room at doctors office never bothers me anymore. I just take a race card with me.

[Show Me the Wire]

Oh I forgot. As for me I go both ways, meaning sometimes I do it the night before and other times I do it at the track.

I use the DRF and I do not have a db, so I am flexible as to time. Time wise it only takes me on the average of 8 minutes to handicap a 10 horse race and most races have less entrants. So is it important when or where I spend that 8 minutes? It is important only if I want to play multi-win exotics, because if I do it at the track I may not have enough time to complete 4 or more races and I may end up missing an opporunity due to the poor organization of my scheduling.

Regards,
Show Me the Wire

Perception is reality

[Valuist]

Handy Cap-

You obviously harbor some inner bitterness. All I did was make a comment on changes I've perceived over the years. The fact that the post angered you must mean you took it personally. And if it does apply to you, by all means keep going to the track.

BTW, after seeing a full racebook with horsebettors and virtually nobody betting baseball, I'm not so sure horse racing is the dying sport.

[takeout]

Originally posted by Handy Cap
This subject is just absolutely sickening, and in my mind, these types of people are part of the reason why horse racing is a dying sport.
The people who actually put real money through the windows are part of the reason that this is a dying sport? You've got to be kidding.

[JustMissed]

This is the most arrogant and immature thread I have ever read on this board.

JustMissed

[sq764]

Valuist, I hate to break this to you, but not everyone handicaps the same way as you!

Who cares if people read the racing form? Does that give you more information than a simo book? Sure. If someone doesn't use that extra info, does it really help them? No.

Like SMTW mentioned, most people work for a living and a lot of them have families, so handicapping time is at a premium. If I didn’t go to the track every time I didn’t have the time to fully handicap a card, I would go about 10 days a year.

[takeout]

Originally posted by Show Me the Wire
BTW what is different about making yourself old and gray trying to make your employer more profitable or worrying about if the jock change will benefit the horse? Not saying this is applies to you, but it seems comprable to me.

Me too!

Friends think my gray came from playing the ponies but I know in my heart that it was really from that damned day job!
:D

[alysheba88]

Valuist, sorry. I meant to address Sq764 with my first post, not you. I got confused, I made it seem like i was disagreeing with you when I do agree.

Sq and others. Not sure why this thread is immature or arrogant. People are giving opinions. You have given yours, others are giving theirs. How can sharing info and ideas be bad? We all don't have to agree on something. Would be boring if we did.
There are those who think that anyone using the form is an idiot (they use more "advanced" tools). Thats fine too.

[Valuist]

First off, I wasn't aware it was a misdeamenor (or is a felony) to make commentary....

Sq764-

I just as soon they didn't handicap from the Form. Its just a different experience now. You don't go to the track and talk racing or handicapping now. I DO object when some moron starts their handicapping while at the self service tote machine and I'm behind them and end up getting shut out. I see this with increasing frequency every year and it is my pet peeve at the track.

Alysheba-

No offense was taken.

[takeout]

Originally posted by JustMissed
This is the most arrogant and immature thread I have ever read on this board.

Have you tried the Software section?

[alysheba88]

I think a lot of it comes down to one question. Why do you play the horses?

For some its just pure entertainment. A hobby. There is no expectation of making $ and the player just wants to have a few beers bet a few longshots (or his favorite jockey) and be done with it. There is NOTHING wrong with this.

On the opposite end are the "pro's". Who are playing for one reason. Money. They look at it cold bloodily and can see no reason to play, unless there is an edge. They treat it as a job and not some romantic adventure.

Most of us are somehere in the middle. Closer to one extreme or than the other. Maybe its the intellectual challenge. Maybe its just the "action". The hope for a dream lifechanging score.

[BillW]

Originally posted by takeout
Have you tried the Software section?

... and points south?

[sq764]

Regarding people handicapping at the window - I agree.. There is nothing more annoying than that. I almost got into a fight at Philly Park when I got shut out because some moron just opened the program when he got to the window.

[Tom]

Originally posted by JustMissed
This is the most arrogant and immature thread I have ever read on this board.

JustMissed


Stop in on Off Topics! :rolleyes:

[Fastracehorse]

<I'm amazed at the number of people at the track who start their handicapping when they get to the track. Either they are too lazy to handicap beforehand, or aren't capable. Many just seem to be content playing numbers. It seems like we've spawned a nation of gimmick bettors who are adept at filling out Pic 6 tickets but who are clueless on pace shapes, par times, and post parade inspection. At the Gold Coast tourney this past weekend, I was shocked that a decent number of people hadn't done any preparation before they walked in. I guess this is what simulcasting has created; just an equine slot machine.

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Handicapping takes mental energy. That is, it is hard work. I remember a time it took me 5 hours to handicap one harness card. Now I could do it better in 30 min's - but I don't play harness.

Remember why you got into horses in the first place: The allure of gambleing.

So, anybody keen on winning knows the importance of preparation - and the effort it takes.

fffastt



:) :) :) :) :) :) :)

[VetScratch]

Lefty,
At the racebook I frequent...

How about the oldtimers' racebook (RB) equivalent of paddock handicapping at the racetrack.

Before co-mingling was legalized, you might see the RB manager called from his office. This was your signal to get in position near the writer who needed authorization. If the RB manager took the patron aside for a private confab, then let him get down for a negotiated sum, you wanted to follow suit (under the supervisory limits). Conversely, if everything was resolved in public, you could ignore what the patron did.

[Jed]

>> Handicapping takes mental energy. That is, it is hard work. I remember a time it took me 5 hours to handicap one harness card. Now I could do it better in 30 min's - but I don't play harness. <<

So, you went from pace handicapping to speed handicapping?

[Fastracehorse]

I was just better at filtering the information mentally.

I am University educated - not that that, makes me special - my point is that I'm not so dumb as to try and drown a fish and henceforth ( from my University days :D ), handicapping is really quite an intellectual discipline.

Whennnnnnnnnn I played harney, and that was a while ago, I would call myself more of a shop-for-the-pop type player. That is, kind of trainer intent thing with horses that had proven they could pop in the past.

With tb's yes, I'm a speed fig player, par-shell-lee, but I believe pace is inherent to a speed fig.

fffastt

:) :) :) :) :) :) :)