Marine Threatens U.S. Civilians

[JustRalph]

http://christopher-calbat.newsvine.com/_news/2010/03/26/4073188-an-article-i-wish-i-would-never-have-to-write-to-those-calling-for-a-civil-war-this-marine-wants-you-to-stop-and-think

From the Link:

"First and foremost , when it comes to the back and forth of who did what to whom and why - I don't give a @!$%#. It doesn't change the action. In life we're judged by our actions, nothing more, nothing less. One of the greatest things of the military is when it comes to an enemy, the politics behind the situation - don't matter in accomplishing that mission. For the military , life is simple in that regard.

Secondly, Regardless of your political ideology, you've earned the right as US Citizens to say your piece - no matter how wrong it may be. That is your right, and I will give my life to protect it.

But this government of ours is a democracy. We vote for our representatives, and they vote in our interests. Sometimes, the votes don't go our way. That's life, better luck next time. Exhaust your legislative options, and then focus on gaining the required votes and/or seats to achieve your desired legislative vote next election time. That's the way things work.

But the SECOND you start committing acts of violence and vandalism, then you've usurped that Constitution. You in a way have assaulted it. And then you and I (I being every servicemember who has sworn to defend said Constitution) will have a MAJOR PROBLEM.

For those of you calling for a civil war, I implore you to stop and think about what you're saying. Look around your neighborhood and your city. Now imagine using that terrain to survive. Imagine dodging semi-automatic rifle fire as you scramble from cover to cover, dragging your wounded child behind you. Imagine the deafening report of a mortar as it strikes the ground a 150 feet in front of you, the overpressure enough to shatter your teeth and perforate an ear drum. Try and envision a Stryker rolling through neighbor's front lawn or a F/A-18 making lazy loops over your head in Close Air Support for the troops in the distance. "

much more at the link

[boxcar]

Now I 'd like to disperse a myth here - many of you think that US military would not fight civilians. I can't speak for all, but in my case - the moment you declare civil war, you're no longer civilians. The moment you attack the constitution, you're now enemies of that constitution. And I swore to defend and support and if necessary give my life for that Constitution and utilize every tool, technique, and weapon at my disposal to do so. And trust me, I'm not alone.

Does anyone see a problem with this guy's statement in this paragraph?

Boxcar

[Dave Schwartz]

Who the heck is talking about "civil war?" That would be crazy.

Insurrection will destroy this country and turn it into... a 3rd world country.

[Overlay]

First off, if the Marine is referring to Congresswoman Bachmann's comments, I did not hear her rhetoric advance to the point of advocating armed violence against the United States.

However, the military oath is to defend the Constitution against all enemies foreign and domestic. The lawful chain of command determines who those enemies are, and transmits orders to deal with them. If such actions would be in response to citizens who are staging armed rebellion against the government of the United States that was established through Constitutional processes, the soldier's loyalty would be to the Constitution. I think that's all that the Marine is trying to impress upon readers.

[Warren Henry]

More like a call for rational thought.

The Marine was just reminding folks that should some of us choose to try to take the country back by force we should probably expect to have to fight our own military. The troops are sworn to obey orders passed down through the chain of command. If the commanders deem us to be enemy combatants, we had better be prepared to fight against the best.

The only way we wouldn't have to fight our own military forces is if most of the military commanders deemed the orders issued by the CINC to be unlawful. Things would have to get a whole lot worse (IMO) for that to happen.

[Johnny V]

Our military is obliged to obey only lawful orders. The oath to defend the constitution against all enemies includes the domestic ones who may happen to be giving the orders that are in reality subverting and destroying the constitution.

[johnhannibalsmith]

I question this fella's motive for even speculating about such a scenario. What prompted him to make such a leap? People making nasty phone calls to legislators and some nuts claiming to be part of drinking clubs they call "militias"? It reads like a guy threatening military action and dead dissenters as a reaction to lawful protest and reasonably civil political division.
:confused:

[prospector]

Now I 'd like to disperse a myth here - many of you think that US military would not fight civilians. I can't speak for all, but in my case - the moment you declare civil war, you're no longer civilians. The moment you attack the constitution, you're now enemies of that constitution. And I swore to defend and support and if necessary give my life for that Constitution and utilize every tool, technique, and weapon at my disposal to do so. And trust me, I'm not alone.

Does anyone see a problem with this guy's statement in this paragraph?

Boxcar
yea, i got a big problem with it...most of the "civilians" hes talking about are ex military, with as much if not more training as the current military...some of us taught what they learn now..
if they wanted to go to war, most of them would act as singles..its easier, quicker and more effective..
many of us once said we'd never fire on the flag we fought under..now, it rapidly becoming not our flag...
lets hope the ballots work in november...

[Tom]

Insurrection will destroy this country and turn it into... a 3rd world country.

I though his name was Barack? Is Insurrection his middle name?

[boxcar]

Our military is obliged to obey only lawful orders. The oath to defend the constitution against all enemies includes the domestic ones who may happen to be giving the orders that are in reality subverting and destroying the constitution.

BINGO! You essentially answered the question I asked. Thank you. Someone here got it!

Number one: The citizens of this country do not swear an oath to uphold the Constitution. However, as Johnny essentially said, those in charge have! What makes this Marine think that his superiors haven't upheld the Constitution that they swore an oath to do -- most especially, by this current president who is on record as stating that the Constitution is "fundamentally flawed" because, essentially, he doesn't think it gives enough power to the U.S. government?

Secondly, has this marine never heard about tyranny? Unlike our founding fathers who had a far better handle on corrupt human nature and how that nature tends to work itself out within governments, were very familiar with conditions of tyranny up close and personal. In fact, one of them essentially said once that it was the people's duty to overthrow a government that has become illegitimate. What was meant by this was a government that no longer represents the people's will -- a government that longer governs by the consent of the people -- is no longer a legitimate constitutional government, since government is supposed to be by, for and of the people.

This marine's view, therefore, is wee bit lopsided and skewed. Methinks he could be in dire need of a few history lessons.

Boxcar

[boxcar]

Who the heck is talking about "civil war?" That would be crazy.

Insurrection will destroy this country and turn it into... a 3rd world country.

Two things: We're already being turned into a two-bit banana republic. Look around. The Takers in this society are rapidly overtaking the Givers.

Secondly, we survived one war and became a better nation for it. I think we would survive another if it should ever come down to this.

Disclaimer: These statements in no way, shape or form support, condone or encourage violence as a first, second, or third resort. However, as a last resort, it might be necessary in order to preserve our inalienable rights.

Boxcar

[Tom]

If we do have another civil war, let's NOT take back the other side when we win it. :D

We would be much better nation without about half of the people here now. Anchors hold you back. Dems hold you down. Let's give them their very own country. And watch them fail when they have to find out to live without rich people to leech off from.

[BlueShoe]

Spent quite some time reading the posts on the Newsvine link, and some valid points were made. What the sergeant stated was that any insurrection against lawful Constitutional authority would be swiftly crushed. The key words are lawful and Constitutional. However, the Marine might do well to brush up on the history of revolts and civil wars. They start when those in power ignore law and exceed their rightful authority. The armed forces always split into factions, some joining the opposition and some sticking with the oppressive government. What would our military forces do if, for example, the administration cancelled the 2012 elections, and Obama declared himself president-for-life? What if he then put into place his proposed Civilian National Security Force, the new Brownshirt SA? Such actions would almost surely trigger armed response of some sort. The idea of a bunch of guys with bolt action rifles taking on battle hardened troops with modern weapons is ludacris, and is something that only a handful of demented fanatics would consider. Any violence would be local, and would be a law enforcement problem. However, such activities could spread and become widespread, and then the military could become involved. While a Right vs. Left civil war is extremely unlikely at this point, it is not completely inconceivable either. Lets hope that there will still be free elections, and that we take back our Republic and solve our problems with ballots, not bullets.

[boxcar]

Spent quite some time reading the posts on the Newsvine link, and some valid points were made. What the sergeant stated was that any insurrection against lawful Constitutional authority would be swiftly crushed. The key words are lawful and Constitutional. However, the Marine might do well to brush up on the history of revolts and civil wars. They start when those in power ignore law and exceed their rightful authority. The armed forces always split into factions, some joining the opposition and some sticking with the oppressive government. What would our military forces do if, for example, the administration cancelled the 2012 elections, and Obama declared himself president-for-life? What if he then put into place his proposed Civilian National Security Force, the new Brownshirt SA? Such actions would almost surely trigger armed response of some sort. The idea of a bunch of guys with bolt action rifles taking on battle hardened troops with modern weapons is ludacris, and is something that only a handful of demented fanatics would consider. Any violence would be local, and would be a law enforcement problem. However, such activities could spread and become widespread, and then the military could become involved. While a Right vs. Left civil war is extremely unlikely at this point, it is not completely inconceivable either. Lets hope that there will still be free elections, and that we take back our Republic and solve our problems with ballots, not bullets.

A couple of things: First, BO wants a Brownshirt force that would just as well trained and armed as the military. He doesn't want a mere police force.

Secondly, the next issue up to bat is amnesty for all the illegal aliens in this country. BO will try to sell this a few ways, including by calling (implicitly, probably) all those who oppose racists because they don't like the color of the illegals' skin. (Divide and Conquer. Divide and Conquer.) If he uses this ill-conceived argument (distraction from the real issues), it would surely fan the flames of anger and dissent to new levels. His 20+ years of BLT background would make him a heavy favorite that he would play the race card. This would not sit well with more than a few people in this country.

Boxcar