Republican Help

[ljb]

Just caught this in the paper yesterday.
The Bush administration is having problems getting Iraq in shape.
They have managed to get the oil flowing but, still have thousands of people with out water and/or electricity.
The administration's think tank has come up with a solution....
They are going to give them a tax cut.
Course if that don't work, they could just lie about some more nukes and bomb the hell out of them again. Yuk, yuk ,yuk:D :D :D

[Lefty]

ljb, you think you are the clever one. But never forget, and you won't, I wont' let you, the Clinton administration said it FIRST.
Yeah, we should have Iraq under control, hell it's been almost 3 months. That s really a long long time; in the life of a fly!

[ljb]

Lefty,
Your continued reliance on Clinton amazes me. Keep the faith buddy, you are beggining to see the light.

[Suff]

Originally posted by Lefty
.
Yeah, we should have Iraq under control, hell it's been almost 3 months. That s really a long long time; in the life of a fly!

Lefty

Will you concede that its been a VERY BAD 3 months.

No "substanantive" WMD's
DEAD Americans
False or Mis-Leading intelligence in a State of The Union.
MORE DEAD Americans.

Its the Dead part, thats starting to worry me.

[MikeDee]

the dead part worries me to.

There is no end in site. The Bushers had no plan for how to get Iraq running and how to get us out of there.

This is going to take alot of our tax money and lives before it is really over.

Not to even mention that fact the they haven't caught a single leader of anything.

Meanwhile back home employment is at a 9 YEAR high.

Bush Jr will end up like dear old Dad 4 and out.

[Lefty]

Sufferin" I think the libs try to make it seem to be a bad 3 mos. But damn, it's only 3 months! The WMD's were agreed to be there by EVERYONE before Bush was elected and when he agrees and they can't find them they blame Bush and give everyone else a pass; that's nuts. ljb doesn't seem to think what everyone else did counts, but he's a most disturbing and disengenous character. I don't put you in that category.
I hate to see dead americans too, but in every war brave lives are lost and then leftists like ljb try to make it seem this all most unusual.
Personally, I think they've found enough evidence to hold a ticker tape parade for GWB for getting rid of Saddam. Chemicals, chemical suits, a scientist with a centrufuge another defector a scientist who absolutely said Sadaam was working on nukes, etc.
Be aware the left is not going to let this go unless they find a million pound nuke wth U.S.A. written all over it.

[ljb]

Lefty's words
"ljb doesn't seem to think what everyone else did counts, but he's a most disturbing and disengenous character. "

Lefty, There you go again trying to guess what I think.
I think most everyone else did just fine with Saddam.
The current administration blew it! They made up some trumped up charges about Saddam's threat to the world so they could blow hell out of Iraq, this was for either oil or votes. And they ended up with U.S. Soldiers being killed daily and having millions of muslims wanting to do us harm versus thousands.
Oh and the personal attacks add nothing to this topic, other then telling everybody you have lost it.

[JustRalph]

Lefty is right about everything he says on this issue. But I will qualify it. The troopers being killed on an almost daily basis is unfrigginacceptable! Why they haven't done house to house searches throughout the country is a matter of tactics. RPG's are killing our troops. They are buried in gardens and backyards all over the country. There should be a curfew and lockdown. The Bushies don't want to do that because they will be torn apart by the Dems on how Iraqi's are worse off than they were before the war. When Partisan Dem Congressman go on TV every weekend and claim that Iraq is not better off, they have a political impact on military operations. This always results in extra deaths. It has happen since the civil war. The opponents of the administration whether Dem or whatever, can affect how things are done. It is tacet in nature but overt in reality. This is G.W.'s fault for letting it happen. He should instruct his Military Commanders to lock the country down and wait for the rats to come out of their holes. End of discussion.
The Iraqi's will cry foul on every network channel with a sat. connection. It would incentivize the population to further reveal the Black Hats. I would also put a $500 ( or whatever is appropriate) bounty on RPG's. Turn in an RPG and you are rewarded. How about you tell us where they are buried and you get a grand for each one? This would open up the flood gates on RPG's and the hidden stuff. Everybody and their brother in law will be coughing up the weapons and when Mr. Black Hat shows up to recover his buried stash, it will be missing.

[B. Comin']

Originally posted by Sufferindowns
Lefty

Will you concede that its been a VERY BAD 3 months.

No "substanantive" WMD's
DEAD Americans
False or Mis-Leading intelligence in a State of The Union.
MORE DEAD Americans.

Its the Dead part, thats starting to worry me.


:D Sufferin-Jet-city:

You're a 'waffler' politically (sound like the Dems?; you're a union man, right?)

After you make your horsey selections, do you also 'waffle' before you go to the window?

TOGA-TOGA-TOGA

[Tom]

Hey, they thought they were living in HELL under Sadamm, I say, they want to shoot our guys, let know what HELL can really.
When the HELL will we ever learn how win a war the right way?
These people should be bowing in the steets when our soldiers walk by. Or quivering under their beds.
Frankly, I sayt the hell with them all -let them rebuild themselves or starve. No sweat of my butt. I could give a rats ass about anyoine over there. I still think we should have nukked them.

[JustRalph]

There is no end in site. The Bushers had no plan for how to get Iraq running and how to get us out of there.

Wrong. They have a plan. It just can't be done in 3 months. Clinton couldn't do it in Bosnia etc. Those guys who Clinton said would get things going and come home in a year are still there.

This is going to take alot of our tax money and lives before it is really over.

Why is it the opposers always scream about Tax Money being used on Military ops but don't give a damn about the Telephone tax that Al Gore initiated, or the gazillion bucks that Dems want to give to social programs. That dog won't hunt. Did you scream about the Bosnia ops and what they cost?

http://www.rightgrrl.com/algorithm/gore3.html

the dead part worries me to. Not to even mention that fact the they haven't caught a single leader of anything

If you think it is easy to find these guys you are grossly ill informed. They have semi trucks full of American money and tons of assistance bought by that money. Many say that Saddam was never really in the country when the War started. We were bombing body doubles. He may have slipped away weeks before and is living it up on an island somewhere. Colin Powell should be punched in the mouth for tap dancing his way through the U.N and demanding that the administration "help Tony Blair" by going to the U.N. Billions of dollars buys lots of protection. They also rely on the religious angle to persuade those that hide them. Bin Ladin is hidden with the help of millions of America hating religious fanatics. A couple billion bucks doesn't hurt his cause either.

Meanwhile back home employment is at a 9 YEAR high

Ok, lets get some Democrats together and tell me how the President can swing the economy 180 degrees and magically heal all the things that contribute to a down turn. Like 911, the absolutely proven cyclic nature of the beast, and the fact that Alan Greenspan should have been fired years ago. By the way, when you get these questions answered, Call Jimmy Carter and ask him why he didn't do it back when the interest rates were at 18% and unemployment was high as hell. He didn't have a 911 to put up with either.

Bush Jr will end up like dear old Dad 4 and out

God lets hope not! I am not happy with his performance in what are difficult times to say the least, but the alternative is almost unthinkable. I am glad the adults are in charge in this particular period. :cool:

[Lefty]

JR, as always an excellent post.
ljb, I know what you think and so does everyone else. You make it very clear. You hate Bush, and you love Clinton, no matter that the two men said the same thing about Saddam; in your twisted mind Clinton told the truth and Bush is a liar even though they said the same thing. I think everyone's on to you, not just me.

[ljb]

Excuse me Lefty but, you are the one that has been using Clinton to verify statements made by Bush. I on the other hand, have accepted the fact that Clinton is no longer President of the U.S.
Get over it Lefty.

[MikeDee]

Wrong. They have a plan. It just can't be done in 3 monthsThey do? What is that? At some unknown, undefined, future point have free elections? Who's going to run, the Iraq junior republican club? Any one that sides with us is being shot by the by terrorists. It's costing 4 billion a month now and you want to put an entire country under house arrest? How many men will that one take?


Telephone tax, , Bosnia and Jimmy Carter
That's what my wife does to me Ralph, every time we have a discussion and she doesn't like what I'm saying she brings up something that happened in the past and somehow any past act no matter how unrelated is used to justify the current situation.

As far as Bosnia goes I was in favor of the Bosnia operation, not that it is revelant to this discussion, but that was a legal UN itervention in a terrible war where atrocities where being committed.
If you think it is easy to find these guys you are grossly ill informed. No I don't think it is easy, but I’d rather spend 4 billion a month looking for Ben Laudin, rather then occupying Iraq.


that Alan Greenspan should have been fired years ago
Colin Powell should be punched in the mouth Aren’t these quys republicans? Is everything that is going bad in the Bush administration the fault of someone who works for the President? Where does the buck stop anyway?

Ok, lets get some Democrats together and tell me how the President We don't have to get a bunch of democrats together. The country elected the republican controlled house and senate and the Supreme Court appointed our President. These quys asked for these jobs. It is time to quit making excuses and blaming everything on what someone else did in the past, and deliver.

but the alternative is almost unthinkable
I'll reserve my decision on the alternative until I find out what the alternative is. Whether adults are in charge is a matter of opinion and I'm not convinced they are.

[ljb]

Mike,
Well written post.
Perhaps Lefty and Tom can learn from this.

[JustRalph]

They do? What is that? At some unknown, undefined, future point have free elections? Who's going to run, the Iraq junior republican club? Any one that sides with us is being shot by the by terrorists. It's costing 4 billion a month now and you want to put an entire country under house arrest? How many men will that one take?

As many as it takes. Stop bitching. we are in there and we should do it right. There are some Iraqi leaders in place today and eventually more will be integrated. It has only been three months

That's what my wife does to me Ralph, every time we have a discussion and she doesn't like what I'm saying she brings up something that happened in the past and somehow any past act no matter how unrelated is used to justify the current situation.

Obviously your wife uses logic and attempts to reason on a level beyond your own. She is able to reveal your obvious duplicitous nature. She has terrible taste in men though. Now that was a joke.... I stand by the original statement. No matter what the operation you would be against military action on Monetary grounds? It sounds as if you would

As far as Bosnia goes I was in favor of the Bosnia operation, not that it is revelant to this discussion, but that was a legal UN itervention in a terrible war where atrocities where being committed. No I don't think it is easy, but I’d rather spend 4 billion a month looking for Ben Laudin, rather then occupying Iraq.

You call it irrelevant when it shines a light on your double standard. You quantify it as legal? Where do you get the legal authority from? The U.N.? We shouldn't even be a member anymore. They should be thrown out of the country. The U.N. being involved only guaranteed that it would be a mess. U.N. forces have a record of failure beyond any on the planet. Why do you ignore the atrocities committed by Saddam and want to intervene in Bosnia? Is there a difference in human suffering that I am not aware of? Do you place more value on the innocent lives in Bosnia?

Aren’t these quys republicans? Is everything that is going bad in the Bush administration the fault of someone who works for the President? Where does the buck stop anyway?

Yes they are Repubs and I don't cut them any more slack than anyone else. Greenspan is not really considered a Republican and is the bane of Wallstreet. He is lauded by a few and laughed at by many. He is out of touch with any real ongoing policy. He is an "independent" loser.

We don't have to get a bunch of democrats together. The country elected the republican controlled house and senate and the Supreme Court appointed our President. These quys asked for these jobs. It is time to quit making excuses and blaming everything on what someone else did in the past, and deliver.

I didn't blame one thing on anybody in the past. You still don't answer the obvious inquiry as to why you think Bush can make a difference when Jimmy Carter couldn't? You get to the crux of your disdain for the recent events when you complain and say the Supreme Court appointed Bush. You are just another Bush hater. You will scream bloody murder at anything the Bushies do but you fail to reason and look back on your own kinds history. They have made some of the same mistakes and you gave them a pass. The economy is a cyclic beast that can be nudged from right to left but never independently driven forward or backwards. It has been proven over and over. Carter placed railroad ties in front. Reagan removed the railroad ties and placed it on a downhill slope that ran straight into Clinton's term. You cannot deny the Bill Gates effect on the 90's economy. MSFT and Intel had as much to do with it as Reagan. Clinton ignored that and went after Techies while the others lied like hell in their books and allowed for the Enron's of the world to collapse in the last 3 years. You guys always scream about Enron etc but if you look hard you find Tyco and others who were giant Clinton types who got caught too. Janet Reno was busy trying to kill MSFT and forget about anything else. I am not blaiming them for others actions, but you had to have your head in the sand not to expect what happen in big business. I got my money out in time. If you missed the boat you must have been sleeping. You reveal who you really are when you allow your idealogy to interfere with your view of the world and you lose credibility. Eventually your arguments run out of steam because you can no longer twist the facts to match your ideology. Then the name calling starts. Typical. What the hell, Paul Bagala is making a career out of it.

I'll reserve my decision on the alternative until I find out what the alternative is. Whether adults are in charge is a matter of opinion and I'm not convinced they are.

Reserve all you want. When you add up the credentials of the individuals in this administration you find that in times of crisis and attacks on our home soil, you can't beat them. But, I do think they have made mistakes. But I defer to those who have more expertise and knowledge of certain subjects. It does not mean that I don't have an opinion. But when I see West Point Grads and Career Military officers being called failures by the likes of your ilk when we are only three days into a conflict, it turns my stomach. Ten days later your ilk disappeared and hid while the most successful military ops ever undertaken were being celebrated and analyzed for greatness. The College boys of Journalism were tearing these men apart for a week. Journalists who's only service to their country is sitting on the local PTA and pontificating from behind a computer monitor are considered relevant when men who have spilled blood for their country are shouted down when they attempt to inform the public on the real story. It is a damn shame that half the shit that is printed in this country is pure lies and deceit from people who shouldn't be allowed a pencil and paper because all they want to do is go after the adults who understand the basic principles of protecting our country. Yet our founding fathers had the incredible foresight to realize that to be truly free all viewpoints should be heard. I am sure they never envisioned what it has become today. But I would never advocate a change! It is what makes us different than Saddam and the like. I just wish the filter could be removed. The Colleges of this country foment the Anti-Americanism that is prevalent in the media and the artistic crowd. The purveyors of this ideology grow rich beyond middle class America's dreams while they advocate more taxes and ride in their limos. They attempt to dictate to the masses what is good for them. You sir are just one of the flock being led to the edge of the cliff. I am in no way a purely Republican supporter et al. I just think it is much better than the alternative. I will take the current crowd over your group any day. You may not be convinced that adults are in charge, but at least the kids aren't running around the playground looking for the U.N. version of the hall monitor.

[Tom]

Originally posted by ljb
Mike,
Well written post.
Perhaps Lefty and Tom can learn from this.

Learn from what we know to be incorrect?
I hardly think so.
I think the USA and the world in general is better off becasue of what we did in Iraq. I KNOW we are better off with Bush than we were would have been with Forrest Gump, er, a, ALLGORE.

[Tom]

All I hear is how Bush ruined the economy...so my quesiton is...what SPECIFICALLY did he do to it? The only thing I can come up with is that he didn't stop the mess CLinton left us quick enough. Remember, the econoomy was going south while the Zipper-King was still on the throne.
I would like to hear just what is you think W did??????

[ljb]

Tom you are getting off the original topic here. BUT, in brief the current administration has done nothing benificial to the economy. They have taken money out of the economy with their massive deficit spending. (Damn borrow and spend republicans) This has put a dampening affect on business.

[Tom]

Originally posted by ljb
Tom you are getting off the original topic here. BUT, in brief the current administration has done nothing benificial to the economy. They have taken money out of the economy with their massive deficit spending. (Damn borrow and spend republicans) This has put a dampening affect on business.

How can spending put a damper on business?
If you spend more, businesses make more.
The only difference here is demos tax and spend.
W has spent more and given US more to spend.

[Lefty]

ljb and Mike, if you guys think the past, especially the immediate past does not impinge on the present and the future, take off your blinders.
ljb, I use Clinton as comparasin to illustrate your duplicity.

[ljb]

Lefty's words
"ljb, I use Clinton as comparasin to illustrate your duplicity. "
There is no duplicity on my part, Clinton did not start a war for oil or votes (not sure which yet but, oil is looking good as we near the stretch run).

[Lefty]

ljb, you keep saying the same old untrue things. You say Clinton did not start a war for oil or votes. That's at least twice you've said it. Is this what you call "facts?" that you keep saying you post. Saying Bush started a war for oil and/or votes is your irrational opinion.
Just because Clinton no longer President does not mean that what he said about Iraq no longer viable. To say so and assume so is either stupid or duplicitous. Take your picl. In his 1998 State of Union address he memtioned the nuclear threat of Iraq at least 4 times. Yet you want to push that aside by saying he's no longer President and that Bush is a liar when he says Iraq is a threat and working on nukes. Anybody that can't see through you isn't thinking or has shut dn their minds. Clinton either didn't have the guts to do something about Iraq or he was too busy with his personal life, i.e. using his presidential power to "score" with women.
So move on to something new, i'm tired of responding to the same old opinionated "claptrap"

[MikeDee]

You are just another Bush hater
wrongYou will scream bloody murder at anything the Bushies do wrong

You guys always
who are "You guys" and how did you decide I am one of them? Is anyone that disagrees with on an issue one of the "you guys'?

I got my money out in time. If you missed the boat you must have been sleepinggood for you Ralph

Eventually your arguments run out of steam because you can no longer twist the facts to match your ideology"what is my ideology? I don't recall having said I have one?

But when I see West Point Grads and Career Military officers being called failures by the likes of your ilk
"The likes of my ilk"? what exactly may that be?
Because I object to GWs war you know how I stand on every single issue since time began? A little presumptuous on your part, don't you think?

You sir are just one of the flock being led to the edge of the cliff
Sir? will that's a lot better then the "likes of my ilk"

Ever stop to think that you may be the one being lead to the edge of the cliff? I just picked a few of the highlights to comment on, lack of a comment on my part does not signify agreement, just a lack of interest.

Ralph, I surrender you win the war of words hands down, no need to write a page or 2 of rebuttal for my benefit as I won't be pursing this thread again. Of course it makes you feel better or it helps you to believe all this retortic, then be all means fire away.

[Lefty]

I'm at a loss as to how one "validates" the war in Bosnia but is so adamently against the one we just had with Iraq. Bosnia was absolutely no threat to us. Our founding fathers made it clear we should not go to war unless our lives and liberty were threatened. Iraq was a clear threat. Clinton said , so, your "great" U.N. said so, and when this administration concurred and rightfully removed that threat, all of a sudden, there's a mass loss of memory all all-round and Bush is the bad guy.
Clinton said we'd be in Bosnia a yr, we'tre still there these years later and everyone's hollering we're still in Iraq after only 3 months.
And to say one is changing the subject by making comparisons between Bosnia and Iraq and the past adm and this one is either not thinking it through or just intellectually dishonest.

[ljb]

The war in Bosnia (we got the bad guy by the way) was a U.N. backed event. Iraq was a pre-emptive strike by two countries against the wishes of the U.N.

[Tom]

Originally posted by ljb
The war in Bosnia (we got the bad guy by the way) was a U.N. backed event. Iraq was a pre-emptive strike by two countries against the wishes of the U.N.

Well there ya go!
Bosnia was a waste of life and money. WE DID NOT get the bad guys.
We should get out of there right now.
I say going against the wishes og the UN is a good thing.
Take a long look at the two nations who defied the UN and take a long lookk at the UN nations that were against us.
Moastly, poor, underveloped, loser natins, most mot even big enough to be state in the USA, Corrupt governments, lazy, unproductive citizens, third world third rate countries that will neve amount to anything other than international welfare receipients.
Now look at Great Britan and the USA.....now seriously, who do you think are the more responsible nations, the ones qualified to make command decisions? The success of these two nations dwarf the rest of the sorry world. I'll stick with the winners, thank you.

[Lefty]

ljb, you say we're hated by the rest of the world and yet you want the U.N., i.e. the rest of the world, to dictate what our country does?
We best get out of the U.N. and this last go 'round Bush had with them proves it. I don't want countries who hate us to band together to dictate to us and can't understand why you liberals do either. Perhaps you're so blinded with hate for Republicans the Big Picture escapes you.
BTW, U.N. aside, according to our Constitution Bosnia was a bad war (they were not a threat to us)and Iraq a just one. (They were a threat to us)

[JustRalph]

Originally posted by MikeDee
Ralph, I surrender you win the war of words hands down, no need to write a page or 2 of rebuttal for my benefit as I won't be pursing this thread again. Of course it makes you feel better or it helps you to believe all this retortic, then be all means fire away.

Touche! http://www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?touche

[ljb]

Gentlemen,
If I understand you both correctly in your last posts, you are both saying we are the biggest - meanest dog on the block and we can do what we want, when we want and where we want.
This is contradictory to my beliefs. While I agree with your assessment of our strength, I disagree with your opinions of how we should use it.

[Suff]

Originally posted by B. Comin'
:D Sufferin-Jet-city:

You're a 'waffler' politically (sound like the Dems?; you're a union man, right?)

After you make your horsey selections, do you also 'waffle' before you go to the window?

TOGA-TOGA-TOGA

Big Time waffler... i waffle, I french toast. I'm like a candle. My Flame points in the direction the wind is going.

I once knew a guy at Suffolk that constantly referred to thoroughbreds as "horsey's". He kept his money in his "med" bottle and he hid his selections in his Bra.

You need a new angle...I was tipped to who you are.

[Tom]

Originally posted by ljb
Gentlemen,
If I understand you both correctly in your last posts, you are both saying we are the biggest - meanest dog on the block and we can do what we want, when we want and where we want.
This is contradictory to my beliefs. While I agree with your assessment of our strength, I disagree with your opinions of how we should use it.

Ljb,
Please read what we write not what you think we write.
You might consider adult education for refresher courses in reading. You are supposed to read only the word printed, not add your own to make it sound like you want it to.
But, bottom line, we should use our strength when and where we belive we need to. So far, we have used on tow rouge nations and the people in both are better off than before and they now have hopes and potential for good futures.
You see that pattern down through history - if anything, we do not use it enough. And, oh, BTW, we ALWAYS rebuild and leave the vanquished better off than we found them.
Name me ONE other country that does that?

[Lefty]

ljb, according to our constitution, we are supposed to use our strength against those that pose a threat to our life and liberty(Itaq) and not those that do not pose such a threat.(Bosnia)