Is the breed or racing in general getting slower

[Trotman]

While looking at pars and ratings and not including synthetics it seems as if times are much slower than in past years. Is it the breeding or is it tracks would sooner put more budget into racino's than track maintenance :confused:

[Mr. Nobody]

Well, they did outlaw steroids in many states. I have no idea how easy those kinds of restrictions are to evade (I assume that the usual suspects will find a way), but it's a safe bet that there area lot fewer "juiced" horses today than there were a few years ago.

[46zilzal]

Accurate records of the times of the Epsom Derby have been kept for a very long time and it, like most times, have maxed out.

[joanied]

Like any breathing creature, horses can run only so fast...and there is nothing you can do to change that...there is a limit to all athletes, and I beleive that the TB has gotten as fast as it's going to get (with possibly an exception from time to time)

[Horseplayersbet.com]

Like any breathing creature, horses can run only so fast...and there is nothing you can do to change that...there is a limit to all athletes, and I beleive that the TB has gotten as fast as it's going to get (with possibly an exception from time to time)
What I find amazing is in harness racing, a sub 2:00 minute mile was a phenomenon in the 60's, and just 20-25 years later a few horses were breaking 1:50.

They some how got about 5-7 seconds faster in the matter of a couple of decades. That never happened with thoroughbreds.

[FenceBored]

What I find amazing is in harness racing, a sub 2:00 minute mile was a phenomenon in the 60's, and just 20-25 years later a few horses were breaking 1:50.

They some how got about 5-7 seconds faster in the matter of a couple of decades. That never happened with thoroughbreds.

Were there sulky changes (materials, aerodynamics) which help account for some of that improvement?

[46zilzal]

Like any breathing creature, horses can run only so fast...and there is nothing you can do to change that...there is a limit to all athletes, and I beleive that the TB has gotten as fast as it's going to get (with possibly an exception from time to time)
In Carrol's book (Handicapping Speed) he shows a chart where the maximum speed per furlong goes from q-horses up and it is surprisingly linear

[joanied]

In Carrol's book (Handicapping Speed) he shows a chart where the maximum speed per furlong goes from q-horses up and it is surprisingly linear

Could you explain that:confused: now I am curious.

[Hanover1]

Were there sulky changes (materials, aerodynamics) which help account for some of that improvement?
A multitude of factors combined are the result. Foremost is the fact that compared to TBs, standardbred breeding in the last 40-50 years has refined in leaps and bounds, as the Morgan traits are being replaced with a more defined animal suited to the task of racing rather than other duties such as pulling Amish folks around, ect.....Most in the sport expect to see the proverbial brick wall ala Dr Fager within the next 15-20 years, if not sooner.

[46zilzal]

Could you explain that:confused: now I am curious.
No matter the animal, the maximum speed attained at each distance from the very short to the very long, looking at the world's record at each, goes along a line almost 45 degrees with each world's record along the same linear path from left upwards to right.

[therussmeister]

What I find amazing is in harness racing, a sub 2:00 minute mile was a phenomenon in the 60's, and just 20-25 years later a few horses were breaking 1:50.

They some how got about 5-7 seconds faster in the matter of a couple of decades. That never happened with thoroughbreds.

Many years ago there was an article about this in a non-horse racing publication (I think it was Time magazine). The gist of the article was that through evolution, horses became an extremely efficient runner, so there is little room for improvement either through breeding or training. Whereas harness horses, although both the pacing and trotting strides are natural in the wild, not at the speed they maintain in a harness race, so there is a lot of room for improvement with training techniques.

[cj]

To say horses have "maxed out" seems silly to me. One of the reasons it is hard to judge is tracks are different, have been made safer, and in the end the goal is to get to the finish line first, not necessarily as fast as possible.

If horses were running under similar conditions over the years, I am sure times would be improving. But how do you really judge this with all the factors involved today and in the past? If humans suddenly started running the 100m in deep, soft sand, Usain Bolt's record would stand for eternity. It wouldn't mean humans weren't faster.

[csperberg]

I thought the lung capacity of the horse limits it from going any faster basically. It simply can't provide the oxygen needed for it's muscles.

here is an article from horse.com the link is actually cached from google since I was to lazy to sign up. if the link doesn't work just type "horse lungs limit speed" in google and it should be the first link, either sign up to horse.com or use the cached feature on google.
http://74.125.93.132/search?q=cache:Z0pZt8GyiiwJ:www.thehorse.com/ViewArticle.aspx%3FID%3D10698+horse+lungs+limit+sp eed&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us

Here is a better pdf version
http://www.thehorse.com/pdf/airways-lungs/airways-lungs.pdf

[Stillriledup]

Were there sulky changes (materials, aerodynamics) which help account for some of that improvement?


The skill of the drivers has changed dramatically in the last 30 years. Guys are lighter and much more athletic and make these horses pace so much faster than the old days, i think drivers skill has probably take 5 seconds off the mile just by itself. Back before 1980, most harness horses would just sit in single file and sprint home a quarter mile. Nowadays, the internal speed of the races is much faster than it used to be, which sets up much faster final times.