This is what change looks like

[Tom]

When you don't listen to the people, you get an 8 and and 11.

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503544_162-20000937-503544.html

Hey hcap, it's even cBS.

[wisconsin]

But holy smokes, what about the whopping number who "don't know enough"? Nothing like an informed public.

[hcap]

Things are not what you guys think. The passage of the health care bill has shown SUCCESS is possible for the wobbly knees DEMS.
I have always thought the repugs played hardball politics much better. So although I personally prefer Kumbaya as a means of settling most disputes, bipartisanship is totally wasted on the repugs. Over the last month or so the Dems played the game as repugs do. Hardball and with GONADS. Generally the country doesn't like losers.

Obama pulled it off. As people find out more about the bill, it will elevate Obama and the Dems in the polls

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/ezra-klein/2010/03/poll_health-care_reform_more_p.html

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/ezra-klein/gallup_poll_pre_and_post_passage_.png

[Steve 'StatMan']

It's Chump Change. Obama makes the change, and we're the chumps.

[hcap]

AP Photo. It shows House Republican Conference Chairman Mike Pence and Congresswoman Cathy McMorris Rodgers holding a Capitol Hill news conference today on health care legislation:

http://timeswampland.files.wordpress.com/2010/03/health_care_overhaul_dchh10.jpg?w=540&h=358

[PhillyFan]

i have been at work for two days since the vote and not one person has mentioned the passage of the health care bill. not one! where is the outrage? i don't get it.

[hcap]

Another taken AFTER the bill passed.

http://www.motherjones.com/files/images/Blog_Healthcare_Gallup_March_2010_0.jpg

[PaceAdvantage]

As people find out more about the bill, it will elevate Obama and the Dems in the pollsLovely..."as people find out more about the bill..."

How priceless you are hcap.

Don't you believe that legislation of this magnitude should have been dissected with a fine tooth comb in the public arena so that most EVERYONE "finds out" about the bill BEFORE it's voted on? Or do you subscribe to the Nancy Pelosi "WE NEED TO PASS THE HEALTH CARE BILL TO FIND OUT WHAT’S IN IT" style of revelation?

The real sad part is, after reading your words above, combined with those from Speaker Pelosi, ya'll make George W. Bush look like a rocket scientist by comparison.

[Tom]

i have been at work for two days since the vote and not one person has mentioned the passage of the health care bill. not one! where is the outrage? i don't get it.

You work at DNC?

[Tom]

Things are not what you guys think. The passage of the health care bill has shown SUCCESS is possible for the wobbly knees DEMS.

Success?
You better look up the word.
Bribes, threats, lies, backroom deals, outright lies by the LSOS president,
an you call that success?

I can't wait to see the spin you put on November when you guys successfully exit, stage left! :lol::lol::lol:

[mostpost]

AP Photo. It shows House Republican Conference Chairman Mike Pence and Congresswoman Cathy McMorris Rodgers holding a Capitol Hill news conference today on health care legislation:

http://timeswampland.files.wordpress.com/2010/03/health_care_overhaul_dchh10.jpg?w=540&h=358
A lot of the reporters came disguised as empty chairs. :D

[Tom]

Hey, the empty suits on the left can thank them for that.

[horses4courses]

Success?
You better look up the word.
Bribes, threats, lies, backroom deals, outright lies by the LSOS president,
an you call that success?

I can't wait to see the spin you put on November when you guys successfully exit, stage left! :lol::lol::lol:

Oh yes, you are right about that.....

November will usher in the return of bribes, threats, and backroom deals
done the GOP way..........

[skate]

Yipes! the only point funnier than Toms DNC, was hiccups "Kumbaya" remark:lol:


my god, i laughing sooooo hard...ya little kumquat:cool:

[HUSKER55]

hcap, using your own graph do you understand that only the democrats are pleased. over 50% of the rest are not.

[PaceAdvantage]

Oh yes, you are right about that.....

November will usher in the return of bribes, threats, and backroom deals
done the GOP way..........Oh man...you have to bring better game than that if you want to step into the off-topic ring...that was just sadly lame...

[hcap]

hcap, using your own graph do you understand that only the democrats are pleased. over 50% of the rest are not.Look again at Independents

There has been so much disinformation coming from the losers-the repugs-that it took up a lot of informational bandwidth.
Hard to get your message across when every other word out of the losers mouth is "death panel"
Not only does Obama have the stage, but the benefits of the bill are getting out there without the rethugs relentless "Obama is a Socialist/Muslim/Saul Alinsky wannabee.

Of course now the losers message is death of the republic bullshit :bang: :lol: :bang: :lol: :bang: :eek:

[Tom]

The realities of the bill will become apparent soon enough.
It take a while for the left to see it, hcap, because they are generally pretty slow people. Some of them are even still waiting for the free fill up from Bammy! :lol:

[hcap]

As usual you guys are making a mountain out of a mole hill. This is a centrist bill sharing many key points with what the repugs offered as a counter to HilaryCare back in the 90's.

BTW, about Reid and Pelosi. The Gallup after the bill passed

http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2010/03/poll-most-think-passing-health-reform-was-a-good-idea.php?ref=fpa

"No one gets overwhelmingly positive ratings on the issue, but Obama fares the best: 46% say his work has been excellent or good; 31% call it poor. Congressional Democrats get an even split: 32% call their efforts good or excellent; 33% poor.

The standing of congressional Republicans is more negative. While 26% rate their work on health care as good or excellent, a larger group, 34%, say it has been poor."

[hcap]

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/postpartisan/2010/03/why_democrats_are_fighting_for.html

E.J. Dionne

"Yes, Democrats have rallied behind a bill that Republicans -- or at least large numbers of them -- should love. It is built on a series of principles that Republicans espoused for years.

Republicans have said that they do not want to destroy the private insurance market. This bill not only preserves that market but strengthens it by bringing in millions of new customers. The plan before Congress does not call for a government “takeover” of health care. It provides subsidies so more people can buy private insurance.

Republicans always say they are against “socialized medicine.” Not only is this bill nothing like a “single-payer” health system along Canadian or British lines. It doesn’t even include the “public option” that would have allowed people voluntarily to buy their insurance from the government. The single-payer idea fell by the wayside long ago, and supporters of the public option -- sadly, from my point of view -- lost out last December."

.................................................. .................................................. ................

As Ezra Klein wrote, a few weeks ago:

" The Senate bill is almost identical to the legislation supported by moderate Republicans in 1993. Boehner's bill, by contrast, is far, far more conservative (and useless) than what moderate Republicans developed in 1993. Conversely, the Senate bill doesn't look anything like the Clinton plan itself, much less like the more liberal efforts to expand Medicare to all Americans. We've got a situation in which Democrats are essentially pushing moderate Republican ideas while Republicans push extremely conservative ideas, but because neither the press nor the voters know very much about health-care policy, the fact that Republicans refuse to admit that Democrats have massively compromised their vision is enough to convince people that Democrats aren't compromising."




If this is the "Death of the Republic", it is based on a Republican plan

[horses4courses]

Oh man...you have to bring better game than that if you want to step into the off-topic ring...that was just sadly lame...

Ouch, PA, you cut me to the quick.........

You see, the thing is, Republican politicians have just never been
my kind of crook.......

[Tom]

You prefer the more seasoned and experienced dem crooks? :rolleyes:
I gotta agree - nothing like a slimey Chicago thug pol.

[ArlJim78]

Sorry man, Ezra Klein and EJ Dione are morons, hacks. Why they are paid to write such incoherent nonsensical propaganda is beyond me.

[hcap]

They compare quite well to beck and rush.
Or the newest Faux journalist Sarah Palin

Actually, anyone compares well to those 3.

[Tom]

Still waiting for you to prove one of them wrong......waiting.....waiting......
You are obsessed! :lol:

[mostpost]

hcap, using your own graph do you understand that only the democrats are pleased. over 50% of the rest are not.
"The rest" represents a minority of the country. 27% of the population self identifies as Republicans. Only 10% of those who consider themselves Independent lean Republican. Look at the first column. The one that says
"National Adults." That means everyone. 48% were happy about the passage of the bill. 42% were unhappy. 48 is more than 42.
As Hcap's other graph showed, the number in favor has increased since passage of the bill. It will continue to increase.

[Tom]

Fun with numbers.

[rastajenk]

I believe that after the initial invasion of Iraq, polls showed a strong majority of Americans supporting that. Try convincing the local lefties here that they should have just shut up and taken it back then: "Waaaahhh, you're trying to stifle free speech!!! You're demonizing the anti-war crowd!! You're trampling the Constitution!!!" Sound familiar?

Polls are snapshots, and not very good indicators of the strength or weakness of a policy.

[boxcar]

Ouch, PA, you cut me to the quick.........

You see, the thing is, Republican politicians have just never been
my kind of crook.......

But how would the fact, that any kind of crook would be your kind, speak well to your character?

Boxcar

[wes]

Maxine Sums It Up
My thoughts on the Health Care issue


Let me get this straight......we're trying to pass a health
care plan written by a committee whose chairman says
he doesn't understand it, passed by a Congress that hasn't
read it but exempts themselves from it, to be signed by a
president who also hasn't read it and who smokes, with
funding administered by a treasury chief who didn't pay
his taxes, all to be overseen by a surgeon general who is
obese, and financed by a country that's broke.

What the hell could possibly go wrong?

wes

[BenDiesel26]

Look again at Independents

There has been so much disinformation coming from the losers-the repugs-that it took up a lot of informational bandwidth.
Hard to get your message across when every other word out of the losers mouth is "death panel"
Not only does Obama have the stage, but the benefits of the bill are getting out there without the rethugs relentless "Obama is a Socialist/Muslim/Saul Alinsky wannabee.

Of course now the losers message is death of the republic bullshit :bang: :lol: :bang: :lol: :bang: :eek:

There's been some disinformation from Obama as well. For example, he has consistently said that kids with pre-existing conditions would be able to obtain coverage from day 1 when the bill is signed. Well, apparently since he signed it some people decided to actually read it. He lied. The coverage doesn't kick in until 2014 for the children.

[skate]

The realities of the bill will become apparent soon enough.
It take a while for the left to see it, hcap, because they are generally pretty slow people. Some of them are even still waiting for the free fill up from Bammy! :lol:

Oh yeh, well just to show you, i heard of them wishing "Merry Christmas" already.

[Tom]

skate, I heard that guy.
You think it was hiccups? :lol:

[JustRalph]

Great post.......

Maxine Sums It Up
My thoughts on the Health Care issue


Let me get this straight......we're trying to pass a health
care plan written by a committee whose chairman says
he doesn't understand it, passed by a Congress that hasn't
read it but exempts themselves from it, to be signed by a
president who also hasn't read it and who smokes, with
funding administered by a treasury chief who didn't pay
his taxes, all to be overseen by a surgeon general who is
obese, and financed by a country that's broke.

What the hell could possibly go wrong?

wes

[Rookies]

Poor Flushed Windbag today... almost apoplectic before he heads off in his banana boat to Costa Rica... hearing the likes of one of the former Con scripture writers who ensured Bush had words to say...

Republicans can blame themselves

Party's radical voices made all or nothing gamble

David Frum, National Post Published: Tuesday, March 23, 2010

Conservatives and Republicans on Sunday suffered their most crushing legislative defeat since the 1960s. It's hard to exaggerate the magnitude of the disaster. Conservatives may cheer themselves that they'll compensate for Barack Obama's health-care vote with a big win in the November, 2010 elections. But:



- It's a good bet that conservatives are over-optimistic about November--by then the economy will have improved and the immediate goodies in the health-care bill will be reaching key voting blocs.

See: http://www.nationalpost.com/opinion/columnists/story.html?id=26ea061f-3f61-4055-95c8-4c4cfc2947c6

[NJ Stinks]

Maxine Sums It Up
My thoughts on the Health Care issue


Let me get this straight......we're trying to pass a health
care plan written by a committee whose chairman says
he doesn't understand it, passed by a Congress that hasn't
read it but exempts themselves from it, to be signed by a
president who also hasn't read it and who smokes, with
funding administered by a treasury chief who didn't pay
his taxes, all to be overseen by a surgeon general who is
obese, and financed by a country that's broke.

What the hell could possibly go wrong?

wes

It's like this Wes. The exchanges are going to be modelled after the one Congress has today. Don't know Maxine but I'm sure she is trying to get the truth out there. After all, Barack really does smoke. :eek:

[PaceAdvantage]

Conservatives and Republicans on Sunday suffered their most crushing legislative defeat since the 1960s. It's hard to exaggerate the magnitude of the disaster.Pardon me if I (once again) don't buy into the hyperbolic bullshit.

I remember about a year ago when the left was dancing around, declaring the Republican party and conservatives in general "dead and buried" with Democrats dominating the country for the "next 100 years."

And then a Republican wins Ted Kennedy's senate seat in Massachusetts, and Democrats left and right were declaring themselves out of the running in 2010.

On exactly what space/time continuum was this theoretical 100 years anyway?

[Greyfox]

Pardon me if I (once again) don't buy into the hyperbolic bullshit.


Just for the record:

Rookies was quoting David Frum who said:
"Conservatives and Republicans on Sunday suffered their most crushing legislative defeat since the 1960s. It's hard to exaggerate the magnitude of the disaster."

David Frum is a staunch "Conservative" Republican who was George W. Bush's speech writer and adviser.

[Greyfox]

Just for the record:

Rookies was quoting David Frum who said:
"Conservatives and Republicans on Sunday suffered their most crushing legislative defeat since the 1960s. It's hard to exaggerate the magnitude of the disaster."

David Frum is a staunch "Conservative" Republican who was George W. Bush's speech writer and adviser.


Looks like someone else saw it as "hyperbolic bullshit" too.
Breaking News posted in the last hour:

David Frum was fired today from the right wing think tank organization
The American Enterprise Institute. The speculation is that he was too critical of the GOP in their battle against Barack Obama's health plan.

[PaceAdvantage]

Just for the record:

Rookies was quoting David Frum who said:
"Conservatives and Republicans on Sunday suffered their most crushing legislative defeat since the 1960s. It's hard to exaggerate the magnitude of the disaster."

David Frum is a staunch "Conservative" Republican who was George W. Bush's speech writer and adviser.I was well aware of all of this before I posted what I did...not sure how it affects anything...

[Greyfox]

I was well aware of all of this before I posted what I did...not sure how it affects anything...

I guess in 10 years or less we'll find out if Frum's comments were "off the moon" or not. Personally, I think they bear contemplating.

[Tom]

Doesn't agreeing with a democrat automatically disqualify you from a think tank?:D

[Greyfox]

Doesn't agreeing with a democrat automatically disqualify you from a think tank?:D

I don't know that Frum agreed with the Democrats at all. My understanding is that he felt that some of the right extremism only served to galvanize Democrats who otherwise might have waffled and voted against the Bill. He also has expressed in another column the view that the Health Care Bill will saddle America with tremendous debt within 10 years time.
He sees the current act as a disaster and doubts that it will ever be repealed.

[ceejay]

On exactly what space/time continuum was this theoretical 100 years anyway?
the one on the "LOST" island.

[boxcar]

I don't know that Frum agreed with the Democrats at all. My understanding is that he felt that some of the right extremism only served to galvanize Democrats who otherwise might have waffled and voted against the Bill. He also has expressed in another column the view that the Health Care Bill will saddle America with tremendous debt within 10 years time.
He sees the current act as a disaster and doubts that it will ever be repealed.

Guys like Frum are always looking for excuses to trash principles so that no stand ever has to be taken on any. But a person without a solid set of core values and principles is a psychological, moral, spiritual and soulless zombie.

Boxcar

[Tom]

But a person without a solid set of core values and principles is a psychological, moral, spiritual and soulless zombie.

You mean a democrat? :lol:

[Greyfox]

But a person without a solid set of core values and principles is a psychological, moral, spiritual and soulless zombie.

Boxcar

You and Tom have been watching old Bob Hope movies. ;)

[ArlJim78]

Frum was fired from AEI yesterday. One thing you can't call him is a staunch conservative. He isn't even a very strong thinker, he doesn't ever come up with any solid well thought out conservative arguments. His main forte is to take potshots at conservatives, he really doesn't seem to take issue with the other side.

frankly I can't stand the guy because he is clearly a lightweight.

[Greyfox]

Sorry gang. You are shooting Frum. Calling him a lightweight, lacking spiritual, not staunch conservative, he's been fired from AEI and so on are all shots at him. So what.
He's just the messenger.
The meat is in the message.
1. He thinks that Sunday was the biggest Rep defeat since the 60's.
2. He thinks that the Health Bill is a disaster.
3. He thinks that it will cause debt and hardship in America within 10 years.

Personally I think he's making some very valid points.
Care to argue the exact opposite of those three points. Not me.

[bigmack]

1. He thinks that Sunday was the biggest Rep defeat since the 60's.
Which party do you think will be the biggest loser from the passage of that bill?

[boxcar]

Sorry gang. You are shooting Frum. Calling him a lightweight, lacking spiritual, not staunch conservative, he's been fired from AEI and so on are all shots at him. So what.
He's just the messenger.
The meat is in the message.
1. He thinks that Sunday was the biggest Rep defeat since the 60's.
2. He thinks that the Health Bill is a disaster.
3. He thinks that it will cause debt and hardship in America within 10 years.

Personally I think he's making some very valid points.
Care to argue the exact opposite of those three points. Not me.

Two out of Three isn't bad. But he's dead wrong on number 1. His message is RINO-driven and meant to appeal to the RINOs in the party. There is a large faction in the Republican Party that is "progressive lite". These are the guys always looking to cross over to the other side to compromise away more of our freedoms. They are a repugnant bunch, even more onerous than Dems. At least with Dems, you know they are the enemy. But RINOs try to dupe the naive into believing they are actually conservatives.

But what I find really interesting, is why would he want any Republican to be on board with this debacle given his items 2 and 3??? Why would he want any Republican fingerprints on this disaster?

Boxcar

[Greyfox]

Which party do you think will be the biggest loser from the passage of that bill?

Both. America will lose. Good idea, but this Goose isn't cooked and is unedible.
Far more time should have been taken "getting it right" even if a committee had to work on it for several years.
This Act was rammed through.
The idea of putting something in and we'll work on it was irrational, if not insane.
The Dems lose more immediately if the public remembers in November (That rhymes.) By November, the Bill won't have hit home yet though and the economy may be slightly better. If and when the Reps topple the Dems, they are stuck with a Bill they don't want. Then if they try to repeal it, that could be political suicide. This Bill has put both parties between a rock and a hard place.
The cost will escalate. The debt will rise. To control the debt, military spending will have to be decreased. That is Obama's ultimate goal anyways. To me, the whole thing looks like a "lose-lose" situation at this time. I hope that I am wrong. I've been wrong before.

[bigmack]

Alright! Sock it to those evil, money grubbing Corporations.

AT&T announces $1Billion hit in the 1Q due to the HC bill.

About time these Corporations start hurtin'. Right, hcap, mosty, stinky, et al.?
http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5gOfZ-GqupWhK1jO7SwYD4-G5bUWQD9EMFNB80

[boxcar]

Alright! Sock it to those evil, money grubbing Corporations.

AT&T announces $1Billion hit in the 1Q due to the HC bill.

About time these Corporations start hurtin'. Right, hcap, mosty, stinky, et al.?
http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5gOfZ-GqupWhK1jO7SwYD4-G5bUWQD9EMFNB80

This is the Marxist game plan. The more BO and the rest of his DEM(on)S can wreck the economy, the sooner they can expand government, expand the welfare roles, create more dependent Americans (Takers) incite civil disobedience because of a [justifiably] angry public, declare Martial Law, and stay in power indefinitely because elections would have to be canceled out of their compassionate concern for the "public welfare". Sounds like the perfect shortcut to the Marxist version of utopia to me.

Boxcar

[GaryG]

Ciould be a lot of major corporations will opt for the Caterpillar Solution. At one time didn't Emperor Hussein say that jobs were his top priority? His only priorities are feeding his ego (that sucker takes a lot of feeding) and total control of the economy.