Owner/Trainer.... different trainer?

[JWBurnie]

Steve Klesaris (a very good trainer IMO) ran a horse he owned "Need a Name" in the 1st @ Penn last night (1M 5kn4L). However, Steve was not listed trainer like he had been for the 4yo colt’s first 16 starts (last being 2/24/10 CT), last night, trainer, Stephanie Beattie???? S. Klesaris ran a horse he trained, and part owned in the 2nd, also @ PENN. ???????

S. Beattie has also been listed as trainer for Peter Klesaris, who's a trainer.

Thoughts?

[Relwob Owner]

Steve Klesaris (a very good trainer IMO) ran a horse he owned "Need a Name" in the 1st @ Penn last night (1M 5kn4L). However, Steve was not listed trainer like he had been for the 4yo colt’s first 16 starts (last being 2/24/10 CT), last night, trainer, Stephanie Beattie???? S. Klesaris ran a horse he trained, and part owned in the 2nd, also @ PENN. ???????

S. Beattie has also been listed as trainer for Peter Klesaris, who's a trainer.

Thoughts?



I believe the same scenario has played out at CT recently, with Klesaris owning and SB training....strange, to say the least....

[JWBurnie]

I just can't come up with a reason. Pay a day rate, plus 10% for a 5K claimer when you're a better trainer?

[BillW]

I just can't come up with a reason. Pay a day rate, plus 10% for a 5K claimer when you're a better trainer?

Licensing issue? Suspension?

[Hanover1]

Sounds like the old "beard" scenario. For several years I myself was listed as trainer of a large string of horses, when in reality, someone else was in charge. I found out years afterwards that it was to protect the license of the boss in the event of any irregularities that may have occured, i.e. missed sustaining payments, late paddocks, scratches, and anything else the mind could conjure....

[JWBurnie]

Licensing issue? Suspension?

That would have been my first thought too, but he ran a horse that same night, with him as the trainer and part owner. Can't be licensing or suspension.

[JWBurnie]

Sounds like the old "beard" scenario. For several years I myself was listed as trainer of a large string of horses, when in reality, someone else was in charge. I found out years afterwards that it was to protect the license of the boss in the event of any irregularities that may have occured, i.e. missed sustaining payments, late paddocks, scratches, and anything else the mind could conjure....

How would the "beard" benefit Klesaris in this situation? I would think if you need a "beard" for one, you'd want to cover them all. Unless of course they're "special" horses.... and then it would really question the purpose of the "beard".

[Hanover1]

How would the "beard" benefit Klesaris in this situation? I would think if you need a "beard" for one, you'd want to cover them all. Unless of course they're "special" horses.... and then it would really question the purpose of the "beard".
Got to be some type of situation they are getting around....entrywise or other........

[Saratoga_Mike]

Sounds like the old "beard" scenario. For several years I myself was listed as trainer of a large string of horses, when in reality, someone else was in charge. I found out years afterwards that it was to protect the license of the boss in the event of any irregularities that may have occured, i.e. missed sustaining payments, late paddocks, scratches, and anything else the mind could conjure....

I don't get this. You were in essence risking your trainer's license, and you didn't realize what was going on? Odd, imo.

[Hanover1]

I don't get this. You were in essence risking your trainer's license, and you didn't realize what was going on? Odd, imo.
I followed orders, was well paid, and was fully aware of treatments given the horses. Worked hand in hand with the vet, ect.....only had 1 positive in my whole career, and it was a timing/threshold situation involving banamine. We raced at the top of the harness game with starters in the Hambletonian, and multiple stake winners across the curcuit. At that level, you don't ask questions, you just follow orders and be thankful for the opportunity, as I was. You must understand, this was the 70s-80s, and steroid use was widespread, along with milkshaking, ect.....In essence I was given a token badge for my hard work, and hands on efforts, while bossman played golf, ect.......

[Saratoga_Mike]

I followed orders, was well paid, and was fully aware of treatments given the horses. Worked hand in hand with the vet, ect.....only had 1 positive in my whole career, and it was a timing/threshold situation involving banamine. We raced at the top of the harness game with starters in the Hambletonian, and multiple stake winners across the curcuit. At that level, you don't ask questions, you just follow orders and be thankful for the opportunity, as I was. You must understand, this was the 70s-80s, and steroid use was widespread, along with milkshaking, ect.....In essence I was given a token badge for my hard work, and hands on efforts, while bossman played golf, ect.......

But you said previously you didn't know why you were put down as trainer until well after the fact. That's hard to believe. You seem too smart for that. Did you think the real trainer was putting you down to give you the thrill of seeing your name in the program? In any case, I'm not sure I'd admit to illicit past acts on a public message board. But I'm sure you could use the "everyone was/is doing it" defense.

[Hanover1]

But you said previously you didn't know why you were put down as trainer until well after the fact. That's hard to believe. You seem too smart for that. Did you think the real trainer was putting you down to give you the thrill of seeing your name in the program? In any case, I'm not sure I'd admit to illicit past acts on a public message board. But I'm sure you could use the "everyone was/is doing it" defense.
I knew perfectly well why I was put down as trainer, and you see nothing in my post alluding to illicit acts, and my record speaks for itself. It was a matter of coming to an understanding exactly why....He was away alot, we ran satellite stables, and he needed a man in charge to enter horses, paddock them, warm them up in colors, ect......I usually took the first string, and he dealt with owners and horses of lesser ability. I had the easy ones......And yes it was a reward of sorts to be listed as trainer of Hanover horses. Rubbed alot of lame horses and did my time to earn the title.......It just made his job easier.

[Saratoga_Mike]

I knew perfectly well why I was put down as trainer, and you see nothing in my post alluding to illicit acts, and my record speaks for itself. It was a matter of coming to an understanding exactly why....He was away alot, we ran satellite stables, and he needed a man in charge to enter horses, paddock them, warm them up in colors, ect......I usually took the first string, and he dealt with owners and horses of lesser ability. I had the easy ones......And yes it was a reward of sorts to be listed as trainer of Hanover horses. Rubbed alot of lame horses and did my time to earn the title.......It just made his job easier.

Your prior post: "For several years I myself was listed as trainer of a large string of horses, when in reality, someone else was in charge. I found out years afterwards that it was to protect the license of the boss..." This statement is inconsistent with your current post, but that's okay.

The illicit act would be listing yourself as the trainer when reality you were not by your own admission - "...when in reality, someone else was in charge." I don't really care what you did. I was just surprised to see you post about it.

[Hanover1]

But you said previously you didn't know why you were put down as trainer until well after the fact. That's hard to believe. You seem too smart for that. Did you think the real trainer was putting you down to give you the thrill of seeing your name in the program? In any case, I'm not sure I'd admit to illicit past acts on a public message board. But I'm sure you could use the "everyone was/is doing it" defense.
I could send you an article printed in Hoofbeats magazine outlining our relationship during an interview that was given in the mid 80s. It shows exactly why I was there, and my role in the barn. What it basicly boiled down to was when he wanted answers about daily situations, I was to provide them, as I was barn forman as well. Dealing with the help was one of my most time consuming chores. Making sure they did what we required, and if they did not, my ass was in a sling.......and that was often as he was a perfectionist.

[Hanover1]

Your prior post: "For several years I myself was listed as trainer of a large string of horses, when in reality, someone else was in charge. I found out years afterwards that it was to protect the license of the boss..." This statement is inconsistent with your current post, but that's okay.

The illicit act would be listing yourself as the trainer when reality you were not by your own admission - "...when in reality, someone else was in charge." I don't really care what you did. I was just surprised to see you post about it.
It is not illegal to list an assistan trainer as trainer...how do you think these guys keep training when on suspensions?

[Saratoga_Mike]

I could send you an article printed in Hoofbeats magazine outlining our relationship during an interview that was given in the mid 80s. It shows exactly why I was there, and my role in the barn. What it basicly boiled down to was when he wanted answers about daily situations, I was to provide them, as I was barn forman as well. Dealing with the help was one of my most time consuming chores. Making sure they did what we required, and if they did not, my ass was in a sling.......and that was often as he was a perfectionist.

I'd love to see the Hoofbeats article, if you have it in PDF and can post it. I read the now defunct (?) Harness Horse in the 1980s.

[Hanover1]

I'd love to see the Hoofbeats article, if you have it in PDF and can post it. I read the now defunct (?) Harness Horse in the 1980s.
I will dig it out for you, and post the date/month. You can archive it via USTA. Give me a day, and I will PM you with the info if its that important.

[Saratoga_Mike]

I will dig it out for you, and post the date/month. You can archive it via USTA. Give me a day, and I will PM you with the info if its that important.

Oh no need to go to any trouble - thought you might have had it handy and it sounded interesting. It's always fun to read old articles like that.

[Hanover1]

Oh no need to go to any trouble - thought you might have had it handy and it sounded interesting. It's always fun to read old articles like that.
Sadly, those were the glory days for me-not near as much luck of late. Harness has disenchanted me for a few years, and I turned to runners, having done a stint with a few sheds......

[Saratoga_Mike]

Sadly, those were the glory days for me-not near as much luck of late. Harness has disenchanted me for a few years, and I turned to runners, having done a stint with a few sheds......

Yeah I watched harness racing die at Saratoga Raceway in the 80s and early 90s. Slots have helped since then.

[Horseplayersbet.com]

Steve Klesaris (a very good trainer IMO) ran a horse he owned "Need a Name" in the 1st @ Penn last night (1M 5kn4L). However, Steve was not listed trainer like he had been for the 4yo colt’s first 16 starts (last being 2/24/10 CT), last night, trainer, Stephanie Beattie???? S. Klesaris ran a horse he trained, and part owned in the 2nd, also @ PENN. ???????

S. Beattie has also been listed as trainer for Peter Klesaris, who's a trainer.

Thoughts?
It depends on who was training the horse at the time of entry I believe. I've seen similar situations where an owner trainer sends their horse for a race where they might not be licensed, and it may not be on track back with the owner trainer during the entry. Maybe different jurisdictions handle things differently on this. I think the track does not let the owner trainer deal with the horse as a trainer if it is entered by someone who is off track who may have just raced the horse stabled at another track.

[hibiscus]

Steve Klesaris (a very good trainer IMO) ran a horse he owned "Need a Name" in the 1st @ Penn last night (1M 5kn4L). However, Steve was not listed trainer like he had been for the 4yo colt’s first 16 starts (last being 2/24/10 CT), last night, trainer, Stephanie Beattie???? S. Klesaris ran a horse he trained, and part owned in the 2nd, also @ PENN. ???????

S. Beattie has also been listed as trainer for Peter Klesaris, who's a trainer.

Thoughts?
Steve trains for me. Steph used to but not anymore. I have no direct knowledge but I’ll take a guess here.


The horse in the first is a $5,000 claimer and was running for a $15,000 purse. The horse in the second is a $10,000 claimer and was running for a $23,000 purse.

Steve is based at Delaware Park and also at Fair Hill. He has no stalls at Penn. Steph is based at Penn and has stalls there.

It’s entirely possible that Steve didn’t want to continue to incur the van bill back and forth from either Delaware or Fair Hill to and from Penn for a cheap horse. That extra expense can eat seriously into a horse’s ROI. The more expensive horse running for the larger purses can withstand the expense a bit more. So perhaps he handed off the cheap horse to Steph to keep costs down.

One other option is that Steve sold the horse to someone else and the racing office simply didn’t update the program with the new owner’s name. I’ve seen that happen before, too.

All guesses. If I remember I’ll ask Steve the next time I speak with him and I’ll post the answer.

[JWBurnie]

Hibiscus, thank you for the response..... that would make sense.