Blood Horse on RA

[46zilzal]

interesting observations.

http://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-racing/articles/55896/haskins-analysis-rachel-not-the-same

[cpitt84]

Good article.

I really, really hope Rachel gets back on track this spring. I loved watching her race and win, sometimes by large margins and sometimes small, and the most important thing is that she wants to race.

[46zilzal]

This one, not now, or ever, catapulted into greatness.....Came close and might well have it in her ahead, but sure good for the game

[Dahoss9698]

Haskin is unreadable at this point. After reading what he and Hovdey put out I defy anyone to think the media is biased towards the east coast.

[Saratoga_Mike]

Haskin is unreadable at this point. After reading what he and Hovdey put out I defy anyone to think the media is biased towards the east coast.

It is an opinion piece - I've seen worse.

[cpitt84]

"That is if Rachel Alexandra can find her form again. It is not unheard of for a filly to find it difficult to return after such a grueling campaign. Look at Rags to Riches, she was never the same after her battle in the Belmont Stakes against Curlin."

http://fhiers.blogs.ocala.com/10071/a-dream-deferred-rachel-alexandra-zenyatta-battle-crumbles/

[Dahoss9698]

It is an opinion piece - I've seen worse.

Agreed. I probably should have said his last couple pieces have been unreadable to me at least. Haskin isn't for everybody, like Beyer isn't for everybody.

[johnhannibalsmith]

Here's what I found silly about the Haskin article: He makes umpteen deductions based upon pretty loose evidence, but reasonable deductions nonetheless. But then -

"What was most curious was Jess Jackson's announcement that Rachel was out of the Apple Blossom an hour or so after Asmussen was quoted as saying how great she came out of the race, mentally and physically. Go figure that one out."

Haskin can draw conclusions about her race and future based upon her time off, her figure eight, her works, her head, her ride...

But he's bamboozled by the scenario in the quote?

Let me help, I feel comfortable drawing a conclusion too: If Asmussen was the owner, she'd probably be on her way to Oaklawn.

[WinterTriangle]

interesting observations.

http://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-racing/articles/55896/haskins-analysis-rachel-not-the-same

Can you imagine in corporate america if you treated your best salesperson of the decade like this?

A vacation on the backside of where you work :lol: , instead of out in a pasture in KY with clover to roll in and fields to run, and then your next reward, you get sent back to work in a prep race wearing a figure 8 bridle, under a tight rein, and having your jock whipping you on both sides.

Ah. It must be wonderful to be the best, and be treated as such.:rolleyes:

[bisket]

thats about the way i see things

[Kimsus]

Here's what I found silly about the Haskin article: He makes umpteen deductions based upon pretty loose evidence, but reasonable deductions nonetheless. But then -

"What was most curious was Jess Jackson's announcement that Rachel was out of the Apple Blossom an hour or so after Asmussen was quoted as saying how great she came out of the race, mentally and physically. Go figure that one out."

Haskin can draw conclusions about her race and future based upon her time off, her figure eight, her works, her head, her ride...

But he's bamboozled by the scenario in the quote?

Let me help, I feel comfortable drawing a conclusion too: If Asmussen was the owner, she'd probably be on her way to Oaklawn.

It's an OpEd piece of Rachel losing a prep and Zenyatta winning hers, and the fallout that followed. I don't know what everyone expects him to write, would we rather read fluff such as the condition of Rachel's coat or how many dapples he noticed on Zenyatta?

[Charlie D]

"If" articles and opinion nearly always make interesting reading, but we are all wise sages after the event.

[johnhannibalsmith]

It's an OpEd piece of Rachel losing a prep and Zenyatta winning hers, and the fallout that followed. I don't know what everyone expects him to write, would we rather read fluff such as the condition of Rachel's coat or how many dapples he noticed on Zenyatta?

I spelled out somewhat clearly what I thought he could have written. He could have used his powers of deduction used to form the Op-Ed piece to answer the "question" posed in the final sentence of what I quoted. "Go figure that one out." ??? Since you're already out on the limb, how about using the Op-Ed format to stay out on that limb and come with a theory that would have made the piece infinitely more interesting and consistent.

Interesting Op-ed? Yeah, I guess, but I suppose that would make the forty or so pages in the various threads here at Pace Advantage totally scintillating. Nothing particularly new or fresh and certainly nothing enlightening or challenging in the article.

[Dahoss9698]

It's an OpEd piece of Rachel losing a prep and Zenyatta winning hers, and the fallout that followed. I don't know what everyone expects him to write, would we rather read fluff such as the condition of Rachel's coat or how many dapples he noticed on Zenyatta?

You obviously aren't that familiar with Haskin. All he writes if fluff. Have you seen his Apple Blossom Diary? If you've eaten recently, wait a while to read it.

[Rackon]

interesting observations.

http://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-racing/articles/55896/haskins-analysis-rachel-not-the-same

Yes, good article. Read it earlier. One of the moer sensible (sane) takes on the weekend so far IMO.

Haskin apparently saw the race I did - which was a lot like her last work-outs, where she was either a little too agressive or a little distracted. The RA we knew from last season was just not present. Doesn't mean she can't come back, but she wasn't ready for a top effort. Yet if not for Zardana, RA wins by 11. No wonder the connections were feeling crushed and second guessing. But Haskin has the right of it when he questions not the fact she got beat, but *how* she got beat.

As for the whys...RA didn't look like a horse nursing a hidden injury to me - to those who think she's got a known unsoundness issue I say probably not. With a known major physical problem she'd be retired already - I do give her connections that much credit. There's always a possibility there's something yet undiscovered bothering RA but I doubt it. I just think she had a tremendously ambitious and taxing 3 YO campaign. I think the issue lies between her ears. If they can iron that out and get her fit - stand back.

The other big question in the race which Haskin discusses is the way Borel throttled RA down behind Fighter Wing. Although he had instructions from Assmussen to rate her, RA obviously wanted none of it. Given her recent works, it was logical to try to get her to rate. But if she'd been let loose and allowed to cruise on the lead would she have won? Would they still have tried to go to Hot Springs with a win no matter how ugly??? I think the connections knew RA was still a bit short but not THAT short. All I know is I was hating looking at that filly fuss 'n pull and I sure didn't like seeing Borel with his feet on the dashboard.

I hope this is just a blip in the radar for Rachel. I want to see her back in top form - if she can get there. It's still early in the season and I don't care if she doesn't race til June, as long as she's right. While I wouldn't be shocked if she doesn't come back, I'm guessing (hoping, praying) she will be back to form...eventually.

I was also happy to see Haskin give Zenyatta all credit for her win. I haven't had this many heart attacks with a come from behind horse since Carry Back.

[tzipi]

This one, not now, or ever, catapulted into greatness.....Came close and might well have it in her ahead, but sure good for the game

She just started her 4 yr old season? She's run one season and you're saying she'll never be great? The girl just ran one of the greatest 3yo filly campaigns and has just ran one second place finish in her first race after a layoff in her second season and you're saying, "she'll never be great"?? Wow.

I mean that's you opinion Zil but I find it rather premature. She's has a whole season left, it's just mid March and who knows if she runs at 5. We are calling her career as not great after just one runner-up finish in just her second season???

[Kimsus]

I spelled out somewhat clearly what I thought he could have written. He could have used his powers of deduction used to form the Op-Ed piece to answer the "question" posed in the final sentence of what I quoted. "Go figure that one out." ??? Since you're already out on the limb, how about using the Op-Ed format to stay out on that limb and come with a theory that would have made the piece infinitely more interesting and consistent.

Interesting Op-ed? Yeah, I guess, but I suppose that would make the forty or so pages in the various threads here at Pace Advantage totally scintillating. Nothing particularly new or fresh and certainly nothing enlightening or challenging in the article.

An effective Op Ed piece usually creates dialogue through the usage of contradictions and opinions. I thought he accomplished the task, that is why we are talking about his article, is he wrong or is he right?

[joanied]

"That is if Rachel Alexandra can find her form again. It is not unheard of for a filly to find it difficult to return after such a grueling campaign. Look at Rags to Riches, she was never the same after her battle in the Belmont Stakes against Curlin."

http://fhiers.blogs.ocala.com/10071/a-dream-deferred-rachel-alexandra-zenyatta-battle-crumbles/

Why do folks keep bringing up Rags to Riches...she got hurt after the Belmont...not saying she wasn't drained from her incredible stretch duel with Curlin...but the fact remains, she was injured.

[bisket]

rachel had her ears pinned throughout the stretch

[joanied]

[QUOTE=WinterTriangle]Can you imagine in corporate america if you treated your best salesperson of the decade like this?

A vacation on the backside of where you work :lol: , instead of out in a pasture in KY with clover to roll in and fields to run, and then your next reward, you get sent back to work in a prep race wearing a figure 8 bridle, under a tight rein, and having your jock whipping you on both sides.

Ah. It must be wonderful to be the best, a
[QUOTE=WinterTriangle]Can you imagine in corporate america if you treated your best salesperson of the decade like this?



I mentioned this in the thread about 'training thoughts'...that I thought it a big mistake that they didn't send her to the farm, for at least 2 months out of the six, to be a horse and enjoy life...graze in the grass, roll, run and play, get in touch with her equine side...regardless of how many hours she may have spent in the round pen and being hand grazed around the barn...she was at the track through all of it...with all the hustle and bustle around her...how do they expect that she really rested...both in body and in her mind...just stupid, stupid, stupid!!

Rackon...good post...I also mentioned that figure eight and that Calvin should have been told...ride her as you see it...not told to wait til the 1/16th pole...she was a very angry, unhappy horse all down the backstretch...you could see it in her body language...Calvin up high, legs straight on the dashboard, hell between his having to strangle her back and that damned figure eight...I can't imagine how she was able to breath...this filly needs to have her head...once she's comfortable with where she is, on the lead, she relaxes herself.
He may be a top flight trainer...but I wonder if Asmussen knows what he is doing with this one horse.

As for Haskin's story...I didn't see anything wrong with it...but didn't see anything new either...
one thing I am glad about...Calvin isn't catching hell for his ride...I beleive if he wasn't affraid he'd loose her (which would break his heart)...he may have threw out the instructions and rode her like last year...let the big hoss roll.

[cpitt84]

Why do folks keep bringing up Rags to Riches...she got hurt after the Belmont...not saying she wasn't drained from her incredible stretch duel with Curlin...but the fact remains, she was injured.

I didn't know anyone else brought her up :p

Thanks for filling me in. Was unaware she was injured.

[johnhannibalsmith]

... is he wrong or is he right?

In general do I believe that his assessment of the situation is accurate?

I'm not sure of the question here exactly, so I'll refrain from a long-winded answer until I do.

[Buckeye]

If they can iron that out and get her fit - stand back.

That is exactly what they are doing. Letting RA tell them things. Very reasonable and not what Haskin wrote in the sense that she is "somehow" not the same, she is exactly the same, but train and prepare her correctly. I also disagree with someone who posted that some females just want to be Broodmares at at a certain point in that-- Not this soon! RA will take some time off and then watch out Zenyatta. At this point Z is better and that's why the RA camp has decided to wait.

[46zilzal]

She just started her 4 yr old season? She's run one season and you're saying she'll never be great? The girl just ran one of the greatest 3yo filly campaigns and has just ran one second place finish in her first race after a layoff in her second season and you're saying, "she'll never be great"?? Wow.

I mean that's you opinion Zil but I find it rather premature. She's has a whole season left, it's just mid March and who knows if she runs at 5. We are calling her career as not great after just one runner-up finish in just her second season???

no, but not yet

quote the expression never and I will alter that, but you read that into a statement expressing the fact that a 5 to 6 race winning streak has happened many time before and was never followed up...

[Show Me the Wire]

[QUOTE=WinterTriangle]Can you imagine in corporate america if you treated your best salesperson of the decade like this?

A vacation on the backside of where you work :lol: , instead of out in a pasture in KY with clover to roll in and fields to run, and then your next reward, you get sent back to work in a prep race wearing a figure 8 bridle, under a tight rein, and having your jock whipping you on both sides.

Ah. It must be wonderful to be the best, a
[QUOTE=WinterTriangle]Can you imagine in corporate america if you treated your best salesperson of the decade like this?



I mentioned this in the thread about 'training thoughts'...that I thought it a big mistake that they didn't send her to the farm, for at least 2 months out of the six, to be a horse and enjoy life...graze in the grass, roll, run and play, get in touch with her equine side...regardless of how many hours she may have spent in the round pen and being hand grazed around the barn...she was at the track through all of it...with all the hustle and bustle around her...how do they expect that she really rested...both in body and in her mind...just stupid, stupid, stupid!!

Rackon...good post...I also mentioned that figure eight and that Calvin should have been told...ride her as you see it...not told to wait til the 1/16th pole...she was a very angry, unhappy horse all down the backstretch...you could see it in her body language...Calvin up high, legs straight on the dashboard, hell between his having to strangle her back and that damned figure eight...I can't imagine how she was able to breath...this filly needs to have her head...once she's comfortable with where she is, on the lead, she relaxes herself.
He may be a top flight trainer...but I wonder if Asmussen knows what he is doing with this one horse.

As for Haskin's story...I didn't see anything wrong with it...but didn't see anything new either...
one thing I am glad about...Calvin isn't catching hell for his ride...I beleive if he wasn't affraid he'd loose her (which would break his heart)...he may have threw out the instructions and rode her like last year...let the big hoss roll.

I absolutely agree, the idea of a vacation on the backside is an absurd idea. I didn't understand the why the connections didn't give rachel true R & R on the farm and stated this very observation many months ago.

Also, I agree based on the comments made by TOY after the race why the quick and possiblly premature announcement cancelling the AB appearence is illogical. Go figure.

[WinterTriangle]

I think the issue lies between her ears. If they can iron that out

I addressed that. You don't iron that out by giving a horse who has had a killer tiring campaign a vacation on the backside of where she works.

There seems to be a sentiment on this board that "fluff" is stuff that most people who own horses or other animals who compete in athletic events seem to understand instinctively......

And, that's why there will always be trainers who are popular with gamblers, as opposed to trainers who are 'trainers' trainers".....just like there are musician's musicians. Ry Cooder, for example, in the music world.

Since you brought up "head" / mind, there are things you do with a horse to keep that part straight. Unfortunately, for too many, that is called fluff.

[PaceAdvantage]

This one, not now, or ever, catapulted into greatness.....Right...sure she didn't...you give Lure Hall of Fame based on two races, but Rachel not now, or ever catapulted into greatness...

Gotcha...

If Lure is a great grass runner, then Rachel Alexandra was a great three-year-old filly...perhaps the greatest EVER in American racing.

Dispute that.

[PaceAdvantage]

but you read that into a statement expressing the fact that a 5 to 6 race winning streak has happened many time before and was never followed up...You're mistaken. It was an eight race winning streak...but what's two or three missing races to a guy who puts Lure in the HOF based on two races (and btw, I'm not disputing that Lure deserves to be in the HOF)

[FenceBored]

Rachel had a 9 race winning streak; don't forget the 2 year old season ending victory in the G2 Golden Rod. All nine were stakes, including 5 G1s and 3 G2s.

[joanied]

I didn't know anyone else brought her up :p

Thanks for filling me in. Was unaware she was injured.

Rags has been mentioned many times here in this same context...when we've had threads about fillies running a campaign like Rachel did last year...fillies vs colts...and several fillies/mares jump into the topic...including Rags to Riches...it's possible that she may not have regained her form after her battle with Curlin...but no one will know for sure because she did injure herself (I'm sorry, can't recall what the injury was).
:)

[FenceBored]

Rags has been mentioned many times here in this same context...when we've had threads about fillies running a campaign like Rachel did last year...fillies vs colts...and several fillies/mares jump into the topic...including Rags to Riches...it's possible that she may not have regained her form after her battle with Curlin...but no one will know for sure because she did injure herself (I'm sorry, can't recall what the injury was).
:)

She had a fever on two occasions in the 2 months just after the Belmont, so she didn't get back till the Gazelle in Mid September. Then:

Trainer Todd Pletcher announced Sept. 16 that Rags to Riches suffered a hairline fracture to her right front pastern during Saturday's Gazelle Stakes (gr. I), but that the injury is not career-ending.
--http://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-racing/articles/40817/race-injury-sidelines-rags-to-riches-until-2008
She reinjured the fetlock during a workout at Palm Meadows in March 2008 and was retired (http://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-racing/articles/44213/rags-to-riches-retired).

[joanied]

Fencebored...thanks for posting the particulars on her injury. The purpose of my post was that she was retired due to injury, and not the fact she did battle with Culin, as someone suggested.
Thanks again.

[Cratos]

Right...sure she didn't...you give Lure Hall of Fame based on two races, but Rachel not now, or ever catapulted into greatness...

Gotcha...

If Lure is a great grass runner, then Rachel Alexandra was a great three-year-old filly...perhaps the greatest EVER in American racing.

Dispute that.

I don’t want to get into a silly argument about Rachel’s greatness, but to put her ahead of Ruffian and Go for Wand is stretching the truth more than a bit.

Rachel to me has proved to be a very good filly and should be mentioned in any discussion about great three-year old fillies, but to say that she is the “best” ever is just not there by any constructive metric you might devise.

Additionally, my comments has nothing to do with Rachel’s loss to Zardana because I have stated the same comments when Rachel was at the top of her game.

[PaceAdvantage]

I don’t want to get into a silly argument about Rachel’s greatness, but to put her ahead of Ruffian and Go for Wand is stretching the truth more than a bit.

Rachel to me has proved to be a very good filly and should be mentioned in any discussion about great three-year old fillies, but to say that she is the “best” ever is just not there by any constructive metric you might devise.

Additionally, my comments has nothing to do with Rachel’s loss to Zardana because I have stated the same comments when Rachel was at the top of her game.I believe I qualified my statement with the use of the word perhaps. I did not say she was the greatest 3yo filly ever. Ruffian she is not...I don't think I would ever put RA above Ruffian, though Ruffian was well before my time...

Go for Wand was only a few years into the game for me and my memory of her entire 3yo career is something I would have to review...but I think an argument can be made here in favor of RA given their respective accomplishments.