Rachel Wont beat Zenyatta

[cpitt84]

Rachel has no chance against Zenyatta:

"Rachel Alexandra is not unbeatable after all. We found that out Saturday when she got beat in the New Orleans Ladies at the Fairgrounds.

Rachel’s supporters will say she needed the race, that her fitness level wasn’t at the top level. Now though, the bigger question: will she head to Arkansas for a date with the unbeaten Zenyatta, who won her 15th straight Saturday at Santa Anita?

Wine man Jess Jackson is the only that makes that call and he wasn’t making it on Saturday. Steve Asmussen, Rachel’s trainer, wasn’t about to commit to anything after Rachel got beat by three quarters of a length by the 9-1 longshot Zardana, who is trained by John Shirreffs, who also trains Zenyatta.

“How tired she is off of that will be established in the coming days,” Asmussen said after the race. “She’s not where I thought she was and if I had thought she’d get beat she wouldn’t run. You take her back, you evaluate her, you see how her mood is, her diet, how she goes back to the racetrack, how she breezes. No crystal ball could see that far ahead.”

http://blog.timesunion.com/horseracing/rachel-alexandra-we-saw-saturday-would-have-no-shot-vs-zenyatta/4106/

[andymays]

This year you would probably be right.

Last year you would probably have been wrong.

[tzipi]

Rachel has no chance against Zenyatta:

"Rachel Alexandra is not unbeatable after all. We found that out Saturday when she got beat in the New Orleans Ladies at the Fairgrounds.

Rachel’s supporters will say she needed the race, that her fitness level wasn’t at the top level. Now though, the bigger question: will she head to Arkansas for a date with the unbeaten Zenyatta, who won her 15th straight Saturday at Santa Anita?

Wine man Jess Jackson is the only that makes that call and he wasn’t making it on Saturday. Steve Asmussen, Rachel’s trainer, wasn’t about to commit to anything after Rachel got beat by three quarters of a length by the 9-1 longshot Zardana, who is trained by John Shirreffs, who also trains Zenyatta.

“How tired she is off of that will be established in the coming days,” Asmussen said after the race. “She’s not where I thought she was and if I had thought she’d get beat she wouldn’t run. You take her back, you evaluate her, you see how her mood is, her diet, how she goes back to the racetrack, how she breezes. No crystal ball could see that far ahead.”

http://blog.timesunion.com/horseracing/rachel-alexandra-we-saw-saturday-would-have-no-shot-vs-zenyatta/4106/

If you knew racing or the history of racing you would understand but you don't. Kelso,Affirmed,Silver Charm,and TONS others lost comeback races and then went on to dominate again. :rolleyes: It was a comeback race and she's a horse.

[cpitt84]

If you knew racing or the history of racing you would understand but you don't. Kelso,Affirmed,Silver Charm,and TONS others lost comeback races and then went on to dominate again. :rolleyes: It was a comeback race and she's a horse.

Rachel has speed and can beat most horses. Zenyatta has speed and an unbelievable closing move that will keep her undefeated.

I wish I was wrong. Rachel's my girl but I think Zen just got it.

I think Quality Road is the only horse that can challenge Zen.

[tzipi]

Rachel has speed and can beat most horses. Zenyatta has speed and an unbelievable closing move that will keep her undefeated.

I wish I was wrong. Rachel's my girl but I think Zen just got it.

I think Quality Road is the only horse that can challenge Zen.

Cmon relax cpitt. Zenny hasn't been on dirt in how long? One race a while back. If you knew racing or even listened to trainers you'd know synthetics is a closing turf like surface and thats why they stay in Cali. Rachel runs all over the place and just had a comeback race. All time greats have lost comeback races and have gone on to dominate again.

I'd would've love what your thoughts would've been on Secretariat,Affirmed,Kelso,Silver Charm,etc after their comeback loses. :D
Quality Road? Hope the race is at GP :lol: . Nevermind cpitt enjoy your thoughts.

[cpitt84]

Cmon relax cpitt. Zenny hasn't been on dirt in how long? One race a while back. If you knew racing or even listened to trainers you'd know synthetics is a closing turf like surface and thats why they stay in Cali. Rachel runs all over the place and just had a comeback race. All time greats have lost comeback races and have gone on to dominate again.

I'd would've love what your thoughts would've been on Secretariat,Affirmed,Kelso,Silver Charm,etc after their comeback loses. :D
Quality Road? Hope the race is at GP :lol: . Nevermind cpitt enjoy your thoughts.

Your posts are a bit condescending.

[tzipi]

Your posts are a bit condescending.

No what's ridiculous is a horse losing in deep stretch coming in 2nd after a 6 month comeback and called overrated and done. 95% of the all time champs lost layoff comeback races but no one trashed them then or now. Hmm why??

It's like me trashing a all star pitcher because he loses his first start and saying he's done and not an all star. It's just so dumb. It would mean I knew nothing about baseball.

[citation'48]

Too bad more people couldn't see this last year.
The Apple Blossom hype is tiring and shouldn't need to clarify who is the better horse...the answer has been in front of us the whole time.

Zenyatta's goals should and hopefully will extend above and beyond Rachel and her hype.

[Tom]

Cmon relax cpitt. Zenny hasn't been on dirt in how long? One race a while back. If you knew racing or even listened to trainers you'd know synthetics is a closing turf like surface and thats why they stay in Cali. Rachel runs all over the place and just had a comeback race. All time greats have lost comeback races and have gone on to dominate again.


Yup.

http://www.equibase.com/static/chart/pdf/SA031310USA9.pdf

I love it when they close from the lead.

[tzipi]

Too bad more people couldn't see this last year.
The Apple Blossom hype is tiring and shouldn't need to clarify who is the better horse...the answer has been in front of us the whole time.

Zenyatta's goals should and hopefully will extend above and beyond Rachel and her hype.

Another who knows racing and horses :rolleyes:

[tzipi]

Yup.

http://www.equibase.com/static/chart/pdf/SA031310USA9.pdf

I love it when they close from the lead.

Wow one race from over years?? Also are you saying turf is not a closing surface? I can show you wire to wire on turf too ha.

[Zenyatta To Crush]

No what's ridiculous is a horse losing in deep stretch coming in 2nd after a 6 month comeback and called overrated and done. 95% of the all time champs lost layoff comeback races but no one trashed them then or now. Hmm why??

It's like me trashing a all star pitcher because he loses his first start and saying he's done and not an all star. It's just so dumb. It would mean I knew nothing about baseball.
The last 9 HOY's that have run back won their races. Rachel just broke that streak. I don't blame the horse though, I blame Asmussen. I've said all along how Asmussen and Rachel aren't a good duo but many people disagreed with me. Put her with a trainer like Baffert or Pletcher and I bet she improves greatly. Rachel isn't a claimer and that's all Asmussen knows how to train.

[tzipi]

Rachel isn't a claimer and that's all Asmussen knows how to train.

uhh Curlin?

[Show Me the Wire]

uhh Curlin?

That is part of the point, too.

[Relwob Owner]

It's like me trashing a all star pitcher because he loses his first start and saying he's done and not an all star. It's just so dumb. It would mean I knew nothing about baseball.



Very poor analogy with the pitcher IMO....it would fit if the all star pitcher was pitching against Single A competition in his first start back....that field today was pathetic.....

[GMB@BP]

The Zenyatta camp seemed to have doubts if RA would make the Apple Blossom, this was as late as two weeks ago.

Lets hope they were wrong.

[tzipi]

That is part of the point, too.

Yeah Curlin really accomplished nothing. A turf race(curlin not a turf horse) against world beaters and a plastic poly/turf race means Curlin did nothing in his career. :D oh man.

[Stillriledup]

The Zenyatta camp seemed to have doubts if RA would make the Apple Blossom, this was as late as two weeks ago.

Lets hope they were wrong.

If they would have kept Zard away from Rachel, they would have seen her in the AB as she would have won by 10+ lengths.

[Tuffmug]

Too bad more people couldn't see this last year.
The Apple Blossom hype is tiring and shouldn't need to clarify who is the better horse...the answer has been in front of us the whole time.

Zenyatta's goals should and hopefully will extend above and beyond Rachel and her hype.

Bring on the Rachel hype and the first off a layoff excuses and the synthetic surface bull shit!! I want a good price on Zenyatta and the only way I'm going to get it is if people keep eating up that crap about Rachel.

[citation'48]

Another who knows racing and horses :rolleyes:


Probably know a bit more horses, racing and history than you would like to give credit for...
And can you tell us a bit more about Secretariat's "comeback" race at 4?

BTW, I'm not "dissing" Rachel. She ran a courageous race today and of course she's going to improve off it.
I just don't think she ever has been, or ever will be, in Zenyatta's league.
That's all.

[Relwob Owner]

The last 9 HOY's that have run back won their races. Rachel just broke that streak. I don't blame the horse though, I blame Asmussen. I've said all along how Asmussen and Rachel aren't a good duo but many people disagreed with me. Put her with a trainer like Baffert or Pletcher and I bet she improves greatly. Rachel isn't a claimer and that's all Asmussen knows how to train.



You dont think Jackson had something to do with it??????


Saying that putting her with Baffert or Pletcher would "improve her greatly" totally ignores what Assmussen did with her last year, doesnt it? Who do you think was responsible for her wins from the Preakness on last year?

[tzipi]

Probably know a bit more horses, racing and history than you would like to give credit for...
And can you tell us a bit more about Secretariat's "comeback" race at 4?

BTW, I'm not "dissing" Rachel. She ran a courageous race today and of course she's going to improve off it.
I just don't think she ever has been, or ever will be, in Zenyatta's league.
That's all.

Ok so what where you thoughts when Kelso go whipped in a lot of his comeback races? Oh you said that was great racing but RA length loss was bad haha yeah suuree.
What did you say after Affirmeds loss on the comeback?

People think this is the first time a top horse in horse racing lost a race in deep stretch on a prep race :rolleyes: Anyone who knows racing,horses and it's history knows about these races and everyone has lost them and gone on to dominate.

[citation'48]

Bring on the Rachel hype and the first off a layoff excuses and the synthetic surface bull shit!! I want a good price on Zenyatta and the only way I'm going to get it is if people keep eating up that crap about Rachel.

I think the only way you're going to get a good price on Z for any future race is if she's coupled with a yak.

[Zenyatta To Crush]

You dont think Jackson had something to do with it??????


Saying that putting her with Baffert or Pletcher would "improve her greatly" totally ignores what Assmussen did with her last year, doesnt it? Who do you think was responsible for her wins from the Preakness on last year?
Asmussen didn't have much to do with her Preakness win. He got her a whole 3 weeks before the race.

Hal Wiggins at least got her fit when he worked her instead of holding her back and only having her run the last 1/16th like Asmussen. Rachel's running style, being so agressive in workouts, doesn't work well with Asmussen's slower style training. I guarantee that if Rachel was with Baffert, she would have been fit enough for this race.

[Robert Goren]

It is the trainer's fault. It is the owner's fault. It is the jockey's fault. It is everybody's fault but RA's. It not like she hasn't beat before. There is one unbeaten mare and stayed that way today. RA fans eat your crow like men and hope for a better day.;)

[Grits]

Asmussen didn't have much to do with her Preakness win. He got her a whole 3 weeks before the race.

Hal Wiggins at least got her fit when he worked her instead of holding her back and only having her run the last 1/16th like Asmussen. Rachel's running style, being so agressive in workouts, doesn't work well with Asmussen's slower style training. I guarantee that if Rachel was with Baffert, she would have been fit enough for this race.

Now, I'm just getting tired, and I don't care how what I'm saying sounds.

This is total bullshit. Guarantee my ass.

Baffert is an outstanding trainer, so is Asmussen.

[tzipi]

I guarantee that if Rachel was with Baffert, she would have been fit enough for this race.

Bob's had some top horses that have lost their comeback races. Silver Charm for one. Silver Charm lost at .40 cents on a G2 comeback race. Any trainer will tell your nuts if you think every great horse can just win off a long comeback.

[bks]

Yeah Curlin really accomplished nothing. A turf race(curlin not a turf horse) against world beaters and a plastic poly/turf race means Curlin did nothing in his career. oh man.

Asmussen is no Helen Pitts. In a lot of ways.

[cpitt84]

No what's ridiculous is a horse losing in deep stretch coming in 2nd after a 6 month comeback and called overrated and done. 95% of the all time champs lost layoff comeback races but no one trashed them then or now. Hmm why??

It's like me trashing a all star pitcher because he loses his first start and saying he's done and not an all star. It's just so dumb. It would mean I knew nothing about baseball.

I understand your points and I can empathize with them. I just don't think Rachel has enough speed to keep off Zenyatta. Every horse that Zenyatta has faced she has run down. Does Rachel have enough speed to keep her off?

[Cadillakin]

Cmon relax cpitt. Zenny hasn't been on dirt in how long? One race a while back. If you knew racing or even listened to trainers you'd know synthetics is a closing turf like surface and thats why they stay in Cali.
Actually Zenyatta races in California because that's where her owners live. If we had dirt tracks here, wouldn't matter a bit. Zenyatta would be racing in California...

I'm glad I could clear that up for you..

[WinterTriangle]

That is part of the point, too.

He got curlin from pitts. he got rachel from wiggins.

both horses, IMHO, had already been nicely "developed" into their talent by then.

Asmussen, and Jackson, should try "starting from scratch". Get a yearling, develop it and stick with it.

[Stillriledup]

Rachel has no chance against Zenyatta:

"Rachel Alexandra is not unbeatable after all. We found that out Saturday when she got beat in the New Orleans Ladies at the Fairgrounds.

Rachel’s supporters will say she needed the race, that her fitness level wasn’t at the top level. Now though, the bigger question: will she head to Arkansas for a date with the unbeaten Zenyatta, who won her 15th straight Saturday at Santa Anita?

Wine man Jess Jackson is the only that makes that call and he wasn’t making it on Saturday. Steve Asmussen, Rachel’s trainer, wasn’t about to commit to anything after Rachel got beat by three quarters of a length by the 9-1 longshot Zardana, who is trained by John Shirreffs, who also trains Zenyatta.

“How tired she is off of that will be established in the coming days,” Asmussen said after the race. “She’s not where I thought she was and if I had thought she’d get beat she wouldn’t run. You take her back, you evaluate her, you see how her mood is, her diet, how she goes back to the racetrack, how she breezes. No crystal ball could see that far ahead.”

http://blog.timesunion.com/horseracing/rachel-alexandra-we-saw-saturday-would-have-no-shot-vs-zenyatta/4106/


Would have been nice to know this BEFORE the race....might have pointed us to a 24 dollar winner.

[46zilzal]

Rachel appeared short on a track that slightly favors late running horses. I wouldn't read too much into one comeback race.

[Marlin]

It was only a 200K race at FG. It means absolutely nothing. It's called a prep. Rachel will bring it at OP. So will Zenyatta. We will see who is who in the zoo. I can't wait. Clash Of The Titans! (thank god without Harry Hamlin)

P.S. I'll bet 400 vcash on Rachel. What is vcash and how can I spend it?

[JustRalph]

It was only a 200K race at FG. It means absolutely nothing. It's called a prep. Rachel will bring it at OP. So will Zenyatta. We will see who is who in the zoo. I can't wait. Clash Of The Titans! (thank god without Harry Hamlin)

P.S. I'll bet 400 vcash on Rachel. What is vcash and how can I spend it?

too late,,,,,you already bet it........send a check to Paceadvantage

[Marlin]

too late,,,,,you already bet it........send a check to PaceadvantageUnfortunately I can't find my vCheckbook!:)

[GARY Z]

I've stated earlier I didn't believe Rachel would run her race based
upon the silence of her camp and the recent comments of Steve Asmussen.

That said, Rachel didn't embarass herself on Saturday, althoiugh I
would like to choke Borel for looking backwards at least four times looking for the competitoin which did exist from the Moss camp.

The Moss camp has now drawn the line in the sand, demonstrating
how their second string SIX year old, 1 for three on the dirt until yesterday
could embarass the Rachel camp, and for thjis maneuver, my hatred
for Moss has escalated beyond any measure.

Why??? Because he continually ducked Rachel on the dirt, got
lucky yesterday, and possibly Rachel will not run in The AB as a
result of yesterday.

True champions run on ANY surface in any State and don't
rate respect by winning 15 ,20 or whatever # of races
against 0 competition including a pathetic Breeders cup
crew(GIO Ponti excluded)

:mad:

[only11]

I've stated earlier I didn't believe Rachel would run her race based
upon the silence of her camp and the recent comments of Steve Asmussen.

That said, Rachel didn't embarass herself on Saturday, althoiugh I
would like to choke Borel for looking backwards at least four times looking for the competitoin which did exist from the Moss camp.

The Moss camp has now drawn the line in the sand, demonstrating
how their second string SIX year old, 1 for three on the dirt until yesterday
could embarass the Rachel camp, and for thjis maneuver, my hatred
for Moss has escalated beyond any measure.

Why??? Because he continually ducked Rachel on the dirt, got
lucky yesterday, and possibly Rachel will not run in The AB as a
result of yesterday.

True champions run on ANY surface in any State and don't
rate respect by winning 15 ,20 or whatever # of races
against 0 competition including a pathetic Breeders cup
crew(GIO Ponti excluded)

:mad:
0 competion is what RA ran against yesterday.. :lol:

[Pace Cap'n]

I've stated earlier I didn't believe Rachel would run her race based
upon the silence of her camp and the recent comments of Steve Asmussen.

That said, Rachel didn't embarass herself on Saturday, althoiugh I
would like to choke Borel for looking backwards at least four times looking for the competitoin which did exist from the Moss camp.

The Moss camp has now drawn the line in the sand, demonstrating
how their second string SIX year old, 1 for three on the dirt until yesterday
could embarass the Rachel camp, and for thjis maneuver, my hatred
for Moss has escalated beyond any measure.

Why??? Because he continually ducked Rachel on the dirt, got
lucky yesterday, and possibly Rachel will not run in The AB as a
result of yesterday.

True champions run on ANY surface in any State and don't
rate respect by winning 15 ,20 or whatever # of races
against 0 competition including a pathetic Breeders cup
crew(GIO Ponti excluded)

:mad:

Zardana is not owned by the Mosses, rather by Arnold Zetcher.

[ezrabrooks]

I've stated earlier I didn't believe Rachel would run her race based
upon the silence of her camp and the recent comments of Steve Asmussen.

That said, Rachel didn't embarass herself on Saturday, althoiugh I
would like to choke Borel for looking backwards at least four times looking for the competitoin which did exist from the Moss camp.

The Moss camp has now drawn the line in the sand, demonstrating
how their second string SIX year old, 1 for three on the dirt until yesterday
could embarass the Rachel camp, and for thjis maneuver, my hatred
for Moss has escalated beyond any measure.

Why??? Because he continually ducked Rachel on the dirt, got
lucky yesterday, and possibly Rachel will not run in The AB as a
result of yesterday.

True champions run on ANY surface in any State and don't
rate respect by winning 15 ,20 or whatever # of races
against 0 competition including a pathetic Breeders cup
crew(GIO Ponti excluded)

:mad:

RA gets beat...and we are backed to the who ducked who in 2009? BTW, Zardana is not owned by the Moss'..

[Jasonm921]

And how many of these Horse of the Years (9 you said) were in the last 20 years? In the last two decades most of the horse of the years were retired right after. I could be wrong but this is an irrelevant stat.

[Jasonm921]

Anybody sensing a CRIMINAL TYPE situation here. I know that it's Shireff's stable but if this Zardana (whatever her name is) wins other races on dirt I know if I was the owner I would say put me in with Zenyatta if it is on dirt. This horse has nothing to lose and everything to gain.

For those who are newbies. Criminal Type beat the HOY Sunday Silence and then beat Easy Goer and House buster in NY which was crazy. He single handedly killed the hype of the 1990 season and then fell apart.

[lamboguy]

if the race comes off, RACHEL will win beat ZENYATTA by a huge margin. there is no way ZENYATTA can beat a healthy RACHEL ALEXANDRA with a race under her belt going a mile and an eighth.

if you want to tell me that RACHEL ran against nothing yesterday and got beat i am going to agree with you. but going into the race the assmussen camp was looking for a race that she was involved in from start to finish. not that ZANDATA was that great, but she was the only other mare in the race yesterday that resembled any type of competiton for RACHEL at all. they did RACHEL a big favor by running in that race. there will be a much different horse that will run in the apple blossom. see you in hot springs.

[jognlope]

Is Quality Road entered in the big race next month, is it Arkansas Derby? that R and Z are both entered in.

[Valuist]

Anybody sensing a CRIMINAL TYPE situation here. I know that it's Shireff's stable but if this Zardana (whatever her name is) wins other races on dirt I know if I was the owner I would say put me in with Zenyatta if it is on dirt. This horse has nothing to lose and everything to gain.

For those who are newbies. Criminal Type beat the HOY Sunday Silence and then beat Easy Goer and House buster in NY which was crazy. He single handedly killed the hype of the 1990 season and then fell apart.

But he still should not have been Horse of the Year. Its amazing to think a horse could win the Breeders Cup Classic and Kentucky Derby in the same year and NOT win horse of the year. Yeah Nafzger tried an experiment racing Unbridled on the grass once or twice.....if he knew that would cost him Horse of the Year, I doubt he would've done it. Great example of the media's coastal bias.

[GARY Z]

my post was sent to discuss the comparison between Rachel and Zenyata
which will either heat up, or most likely never happen as a result of yesterday.

Racel lost to a horse trained by John Sheriffs also the trainer of Zenyata.

Rachel's layoff placed her at the mercy of another SIX year old and
therby may cause RA to avoid the Apple Blossoim..

I doubt the layoff was a mistake by the RA camp.This is an incredible filly
who did it all, on all surfaces "x" synthetic and her campaign in my opinion,
was more difficult based upon her age distance and competition than
faced by Zenyata, who again rus her race on Synthetic.

'
Difference now becomes a matter of Ego,breeding $$ and my sense
is RA won't be going to to AB,based the the performance of
both rivals.

[thaskalos]

if the race comes off, RACHEL will win beat ZENYATTA by a huge margin. there is no way ZENYATTA can beat a healthy RACHEL ALEXANDRA with a race under her belt going a mile and an eighth.

if you want to tell me that RACHEL ran against nothing yesterday and got beat i am going to agree with you. but going into the race the assmussen camp was looking for a race that she was involved in from start to finish. not that ZANDATA was that great, but she was the only other mare in the race yesterday that resembled any type of competiton for RACHEL at all. they did RACHEL a big favor by running in that race. there will be a much different horse that will run in the apple blossom. see you in hot springs. As long as a horse remains unbeaten, there is no telling how good the horse really is. You can't measure heart with speed and pace figures. Who can forget the criticism levied against Seattle Slew, by the speed figure "gurus", during his undefeated campaign?

The fact that Zenyatta is 15-0, including the BC Classic, is remarkable. That she has done it all with an EXTREME closers' running style, makes it a once in a lifetime event. She must be the only horse in the entire history of this game, to win 15 straight races, mostly against graded stakes competition, while trailing the entire field EVERY SINGLE TIME!

We all know that the synthetic track she runs on favors closers, but who can name another closer that just refuses to lose, polytrack or not? Until Zenyatta gets beaten on a dirt track, the argument that she is only a "synthetic runner" is sheer speculation.

With her on-track exploits, Zenyatta is also responsible for another, rather amazing accomplishment. She has managed to bring tears to the eyes of at least one jaded, grizzled veteran of the horse racing wars...

From her delightful pre-race strut, to the electrifying late kick with which she just inhales the competition, Zenyatta is truly a horse for the ages!

[Grits]

mostly against graded stakes competition

Time and time again, one person's tomato cans is often another person's graded stakes competion.:lol:

[tzipi]

The fact that Zenyatta is 15-0, including the BC Classic, is remarkable. That she has done it all with an EXTREME closers' running style, makes it a once in a lifetime event. She must be the only horse in the entire history of this game, to win 15 straight races, mostly against graded stakes competition, while trailing the entire field EVERY SINGLE TIME!

"Extreme closing style" Well for one the synthetics play to that and so do good upfront fractions. It's like saying wow what a closing win after win on turf. Happens all the time. It's a closing surface.
I love Zen but am not going to get on a kick of top 10 or 20 until she's out of Cali and off the synthetics and does it a couple times on dirt. As good as she is in the synthetic world, she will be golden to me till the day I die if she heads out of Cali and does it on dirt race after race. Which I wouldn't be shocked if she was just as good but Moss keeping her in one place scares me just a little that he's nervous.
Zen is too good to be couped up in one place on one track. At least I think so.

[46zilzal]

Is Quality Road entered in the big race next month, is it Arkansas Derby? that R and Z are both entered in.
Quality Road already won his Derby in Florida last year when he was eligible as a three year old.

[jognlope]

Thanks

[Hanover1]

You dont think Jackson had something to do with it??????


Saying that putting her with Baffert or Pletcher would "improve her greatly" totally ignores what Assmussen did with her last year, doesnt it? Who do you think was responsible for her wins from the Preakness on last year?
Lets not forget that a horse can make a fool look wise, and a wise man foolish.

[Hanover1]

As long as a horse remains unbeaten, there is no telling how good the horse really is. You can't measure heart with speed and pace figures. Who can forget the criticism levied against Seattle Slew, by the speed figure "gurus", during his undefeated campaign?

The fact that Zenyatta is 15-0, including the BC Classic, is remarkable. That she has done it all with an EXTREME closers' running style, makes it a once in a lifetime event. She must be the only horse in the entire history of this game, to win 15 straight races, mostly against graded stakes competition, while trailing the entire field EVERY SINGLE TIME!

We all know that the synthetic track she runs on favors closers, but who can name another closer that just refuses to lose, polytrack or not? Until Zenyatta gets beaten on a dirt track, the argument that she is only a "synthetic runner" is sheer speculation.

With her on-track exploits, Zenyatta is also responsible for another, rather amazing accomplishment. She has managed to bring tears to the eyes of at least one jaded, grizzled veteran of the horse racing wars...

From her delightful pre-race strut, to the electrifying late kick with which she just inhales the competition, Zenyatta is truly a horse for the ages!
This post is only about 6 months to late......talk about a bandwagon, grandstand play. Why wait till today to post this? :rolleyes: hmm........ :rolleyes:

[delayjf]

Why??? Because he continually ducked Rachel on the dirt

They never ducked Rachel on dirt. As I've said earlier, RA announced their entry into the Woodward 6 days before the race - which meant Z would have had to ship, acclimate and race in less than a week and race ON LESS THAN 3 WEEKS REST. It was a good thing for RA she didn't race, no way could she have held off Z - Mucho Again is no Zenyatta. Also, Zenyatta was entered in the Beldame but RA was the no show.

if the race comes off, RACHEL will win beat ZENYATTA by a huge margin. there is no way ZENYATTA can beat a healthy RACHEL ALEXANDRA with a race under her belt going a mile and an eighth.
Really?? You actually think there is "no way". RA could beat Z, but the only way she could beat her by a "huge Margin" would be on her preferred sealed wet track where she has run her best.

[thaskalos]

This post is only about 6 months to late......talk about a bandwagon, grandstand play. Why wait till today to post this? :rolleyes: hmm........ :rolleyes: I was responding to lamboguy's post, who stated yesterday that Zenyatta would lose to Rachel by a huge margin if the two were to meet. I emphasized his post on my reply. Why the smart-alecy remarks? Do I have to be (a hot-shot ex-trainer who now does part-time consulting work) like yourself, in order to recognize a super-horse when I see one?

[WinterTriangle]

for thjis maneuver, my hatred
for Moss has escalated beyond any measure.

If I had to use words like "hatred" for any experience I've had with racing, I'd give it up.

A word like that would be reserved for serious stuff, like somebody murdering your daughter (which just happened to a friend of mine).

Get some perspective, please.:rolleyes:

I'm thinking about not going to the RA Zen race. I'm thinking it may not even be a "safe" place to be....not if there are "feelings" like this in abundance.

Maybe I'll join the camp that doesn't want to even see them race......becuase it's gotten so ugly.....talked to a LOT of fans at Oaklawn today who felt that way.