View Full Version : Rumors and workouts and reality!
andymays
03-13-2010, 08:06 PM
The rumors were that Rachel wasn't doing all that well this year. The rumors were correct.
The workout before her last she didn't look too good. Not bad but not herself.
She was a great filly last year and deserved HOY in 2009 but she worked too hard last year.
Don't be surprised to see her retire in a week or two.
only11
03-13-2010, 08:26 PM
Agree 100%...andy according to Borel she was doing great..had a bigger neck and the rest of the BS..read some of these threads about her workouts...now she loses and all a sudden there making excuses.. if she was training poorly she wouldnt never run
andymays
03-13-2010, 08:32 PM
Agree 100%...andy according to Borel she was doing great..had a bigger neck and the rest of the BS..read some of these threads about her workouts...now she loses and all a sudden there making excuses.. if she was training poorly she wouldnt never run
He rode her like he thought he was playing with Zardana.
She just isn't the same.
tzipi
03-13-2010, 08:34 PM
He rode her like he thought he was playing with Zardana.
She just isn't the same.
Yeah it was just her first race back. Alot of champions got whipped on long layoff comebacks. Look them up. She'll be fine. She didn't throw in the towel and Zardana is not a nag. Just a first race back, that's all. Good things to come in racing for both RA and Zenny. Chins up folks :)
bisket
03-13-2010, 08:36 PM
The rumors were that Rachel wasn't doing all that well this year. The rumors were correct.
The workout before her last she didn't look too good. Not bad but not herself.
She was a great filly last year and deserved HOY in 2009 but she worked too hard last year.
Don't be surprised to see her retire in a week or two.
i've heard this myself, and it appears they may be right....
andymays
03-13-2010, 08:36 PM
Yeah it was just her first race back. Alot of champions got whipped on long layoff comebacks. Look them up. She'll be fine. She didn't throw in the towel and Zardana is not a nag. Just a first race back, that's all. Good things to come in racing for both RA and Zenny. Chins up folks :)
I'm betting she retires.
cpitt84
03-13-2010, 08:46 PM
I'm betting she retires.
i dont see that.
andymays
03-13-2010, 08:48 PM
i dont see that.
What's the upside to keep going?
What's the downside?
Kimsus
03-13-2010, 09:05 PM
The rumors were that Rachel wasn't doing all that well this year. The rumors were correct.
The workout before her last she didn't look too good. Not bad but not herself.
She was a great filly last year and deserved HOY in 2009 but she worked too hard last year.
Don't be surprised to see her retire in a week or two.
What? Did I miss something these past 2 months? Here comes all the revisionists historians that were no where to be accounted before when it was risky to post these thoughts...where's my bud Fencedbored who chided people who would even suggest this?
If I were a Rachel supporter I would just draw a line through this performance and hope she runs better in the Apple Blossom, in my mind she is still better than Zardana however does that mean much when you are running against the barn's 3rd stringer. I hope Jackson continues on to the Blossom, the extra week is what he lobbied for so here we are after the "prep". The Ass-man might have other thoughts though.
andymays
03-13-2010, 09:08 PM
What? Did I miss something these past 2 months? Here comes all the revisionists historians that were no where to be accounted before when it was risky to post these thoughts...where's my bud Fencedbored who chided people who would even suggest this?
If I were a Rachel supporter I would just draw a line through this performance and hope she runs better in the Apple Blossom, in my mind she is still better than Zardana however does that mean much when you are running against the barn's 3rd stringer. I hope Jackson continues on to the Blossom, the extra week is what he lobbied for so here we are after the "prep". The Ass-man might have other thoughts though.
Kismus what is you and others can't understand about what happened today? If you didn't see the possibility of it coming then you should retire. WTF don't you understand that she isn't the same? Last year knocked her out. Why should she keep going? To please you and the other people who though Zenyatta would win HOY? You were wrong last year and you're wrong now.
Relwob Owner
03-13-2010, 09:09 PM
What? Did I miss something these past 2 months? Here comes all the revisionists historians that were no where to be accounted before when it was risky to post these thoughts...where's my bud Fencedbored who chided people who would even suggest this?
If I were a Rachel supporter I would just draw a line through this performance and hope she runs better in the Apple Blossom, in my mind she is still better than Zardana however does that mean much when you are running against the barn's 3rd stringer. I hope Jackson continues on to the Blossom, the extra week is what he lobbied for so here we are after the "prep". The Ass-man might have other thoughts though.
Could this be the start of the backtracking out of the race?
Steve A after the race....
"We'll have to be cautious. We want to do what's right for the mare."
andymays
03-13-2010, 09:09 PM
Could this be the start of the backtracking out of the race?
Steve A after the race....
"We'll have to be cautious. We want to do what's right for the mare."
What backtracking? Why should they run her?
only11
03-13-2010, 09:11 PM
Could this be the start of the backtracking out of the race?
Steve A after the race....
"We'll have to be cautious. We want to do what's right for the mare."
Shes done...
tzipi
03-13-2010, 09:12 PM
Shes done...
Yup and you would've said that about Affirmed,Kelso,etc,etc after their comeback loses :D . Learn racing. It was a comeback race after 6 months.
Stillriledup
03-13-2010, 09:13 PM
If she can't beat Zardana, how is she going to beat anyone good?
The only way they can save face is say she was injured in the race and retire her. That way, people won't hold her loss against her.
That didn't look like a horse who 'needed' a race and was ready to take on the worlds best in a few weeks.
Kimsus
03-13-2010, 09:13 PM
Kismus what is you and others can't understand about what happened today? If you didn't see the possibility of it coming then you should retire. WTF don't you understand that she isn't the same? Last year knocked her out. Why should she keep going? To please you and the other people who though Zenyatta would win HOY? You were wrong last year and you're wrong now.
What was I wrong about last year since I wasn't here last year? And what am I wrong about now? And what are you talking about in general?
andymays
03-13-2010, 09:17 PM
What was I wrong about last year since I wasn't here last year? And what am I wrong about now? And what are you talking about in general?
You mentinoned something about revisionist history. What exactly were you saying?
InsideThePylons-MW
03-13-2010, 09:54 PM
1. Rachel was short........If Rachel was short enough to lose, per Steve A, they never would have run her.
2. There is not a chance in hell that Jackson thought there was any chance she could possibly lose to that field. Win by 10 instead of 20...Yes....But lose, no chance.
3. There is not a chance in hell that Jackson will race in Apple Blossom against Zenyatta if he thinks he is taking the worst of it or has a small chance to lose.....After today, he can't possibly think his horse is as fit or sharp as Z and I'm sure he went from thinking RA is invincible to she can definitely lose.
So here is Jackson's equation......A unimaginable loss + A lost air of invincibilty + A decent chance she might lose to Zenyatta in Apple Blossom = A mating to Curlin which will still produce a late Feb or early March foal
The other option.....since Jackson is stubborn and a sore loser.....He takes her out of Apple Blossom.....says she needs a little time.....Re-Challenges Zenyatta to meet RA in BC Distaff at CD end of year.
These are just my UNBIASED UNCLOUDED thoughts about what might happen based on my knowledge of the people involved in this and after watching today's races.
Kimsus
03-13-2010, 10:32 PM
You mentinoned something about revisionist history. What exactly were you saying?
You stated I was wrong last year and wrong now, I just like to know exactly what I am guilty of when one makes an assertion like that in an effort I can defend myself if this is true. As I stated I wasn't here last year so atleast the first part of your charge we know is 100% inaccurate.
DeanT
03-13-2010, 10:36 PM
ITP didn't fall off the turnip truck.
PaceAdvantage
03-13-2010, 10:42 PM
For the most part, this thread is sad comedy...I can't believe some of these people actually believe the shit they're typing.
PaceAdvantage
03-13-2010, 10:44 PM
As an example, did andymays actually just type this:
WTF don't you understand that she isn't the same? Last year knocked her out. Why should she keep going? To please you and the other people who though Zenyatta would win HOY? You were wrong last year and you're wrong now.Wow. :( :lol:
You'd actually think Rachel finished up the track instead of being beaten less than a length.
Mind boggling stuff here folks...
DeanT
03-13-2010, 10:52 PM
Read ITP's post again Pace. She did not lose by a length, she lost by between 11 and 20 of what Jackson and Steve A thought she would do. This is the big leagues, with a multi-million dollar animal whom was previously undefeated, not a five claimer losing at 1-5 at the Mountain.
Imo, ITP is 100% correct. She will not race at OP, and if she races again it will be after a Monday press conference, telling us how she was sick and needs time.
bisket
03-14-2010, 08:10 AM
andy i think santa anita did something similar to the track as they did in jan. 2008 in reaction to the all the rain. i was scratching my head about misremembered winning last weekend. now that longshot running ones every split, but the last in this one. the track is not playing as lightening fast as 2008, but a cheapy like dance my tune holding on like that :confused: . heck if zen wasn't there she's the winner.
andymays
03-14-2010, 08:46 AM
andy i think santa anita did something similar to the track as they did in jan. 2008 in reaction to the all the rain. i was scratching my head about misremembered winning last weekend. now that longshot running ones every split, but the last in this one. the track is not playing as lightening fast as 2008, but a cheapy like dance my tune holding on like that :confused: . heck if zen wasn't there she's the winner.
I had Dance My Tune Yesterday and had a decent day for once because of that race. She was winless on the turf but had a good record on synthetic so I had a feeling she would outrun her odds. It is true she isn't much though but she put a scare into everyone for a split second, Especially when Zenyatta had to switch to the inside.
andymays
03-14-2010, 08:52 AM
As an example, did andymays actually just type this:
Wow. :( :lol:
You'd actually think Rachel finished up the track instead of being beaten less than a length.
Mind boggling stuff here folks...
I guess we watched a different 6F workout a couple of works ago when she couldn't switch leads when set down. That is not her.
Yesterday she had it as easy as could be and Borel though she would have a ton left and there was nothing against Zardana.
I can't see how they run her in the Apple Blossom against much, much tougher foes.
Dean, I don't think they will say she was sick to avoid a race against Zenyatta I think they will say what I've said and that is she's not the same for whatever reason and will retire.
One of my favorites of all time Rags to Riches was never the same after she battled Curlin in the stretch. She dug in and extended herself with the heart of a champion but wasn't the same afterward.
How many tough races did Rachel have last year?
Jasonm921
03-14-2010, 08:56 AM
This is my take....For what it's worth.
I keep seeing reports in the media that Rachel was moving comfortably. I didn't see that. The first turn she was rank. She looked like she was going to bolt going into the first turn. She went wide on the same turn and I thought they were doing that just to get more out of her. She went in slow fractions (for her). Calvin was practicly standing up through out the first 1/2 mile and choking her (which plays into his comments that they didnt want the lead). He makes an awkward motion for the left reign after the half mile pole and at this point I thought she spit the bit.
I would have loved to see her win this but if history is any indication you never bet a horse coming back off a six month lay off who has only been on the track for 5 weeks and none of the workouts appeared to be great. She should be fine off this. Will she be the same dominant horse, maybe not but who cares? If she is competitive and sound, let her run. The same people who are calling for her to retire because God forbid she should lose are the same people who bitched and moaned when Smarty Jones and others similar retire too early. She is a young 4 yrs old let her run.
We can all go down the list of horses that didn't show up for a race. Heck even Curlin looked shot in the Haskell and we saw what he did after that. Look at Secretariat's losses at 3yr's old. Look similar? I don't want to compare horses in history but history is an indicator that it may be ok. Let's wait and see.
bisket
03-14-2010, 09:02 AM
I had Dance My Tune Yesterday and had a decent day for once because of that race. She was winless on the turf but had a good record on synthetic so I had a feeling she would outrun her odds. It is true she isn't much though but she put a scare into everyone for a split second, Especially when Zenyatta had to switch to the inside.
excellent play!! i wish i would have noticed this earlier, but will take this into consideration for the rest of the meet. sidney was ones across the board also.
andymays
03-14-2010, 10:07 AM
Rachel Alexandra Loss Imperils Showdown
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/03/14/sports/14filly.html
Excerpt:
Then the gates popped open, and the good times this town is known for did not exactly roll. In fact, by the time the race was over, horseplayers and horse lovers alike were forlorn. Rachel Alexandra had not only lost but perhaps derailed what was supposed to be a race for the ages against Zenyatta in the $5 million Apple Blossom Invitational on April 9 at Oaklawn Park in Hot Springs, Ark.
Her co-owner Jess Jackson began hedging his bets last week when he said he would send his filly to Arkansas only if she were dead-solid perfect. After Saturday’s race, her trainer Steve Asmussen said she that she was anything but and that they would reassess her schedule.
Excerpt:
“How tired she is off this will be established in the coming days,” he said. “You take her back, you evaluate her, you see how her mood is, her diet, how she goes back to the racetrack, how she breezes. No crystal ball could see that far ahead.”
jballscalls
03-14-2010, 10:15 AM
Read ITP's post again Pace. She did not lose by a length, she lost by between 11 and 20 of what Jackson and Steve A thought she would do. This is the big leagues, with a multi-million dollar animal whom was previously undefeated, not a five claimer losing at 1-5 at the Mountain.
Imo, ITP is 100% correct. She will not race at OP, and if she races again it will be after a Monday press conference, telling us how she was sick and needs time.
Since when was Rachel undefeated?? I do agree with your second paragraph though, this just smells of a situation where an excuse will come out.
Btw, kudos to Andy who started a thread and it's gone 2 pages and the word takeout hasn't come up!!
andymays
03-14-2010, 10:17 AM
Since when was Rachel undefeated?? I do agree with your second paragraph though, this just smells of a situation where an excuse will come out.
Btw, kudos to Andy who started a thread and it's gone 2 pages and the word takeout hasn't come up!!
You mean takeout and synthetic surfaces. :lol: Woops! ;)
andymays
03-14-2010, 10:22 AM
http://www.pasadenastarnews.com/sports/ci_14672004
Excerpt:
The two stars of U.S. thoroughbred racing have been aiming for their first showdown in the April 9 Apple Blossom Invitational at Oaklawn Park in Arkansas.
But after their prep races Saturday, there was speculation at Santa Anita that Rachel Alexandra's handlers might lose their enthusiasm.
Shirreffs said Zenyatta will go to Arkansas even if Rachel Alexandra doesn't.
Read more:
http://www.pasadenastarnews.com/sports/ci_14672004#ixzz0iA1wwk98
DeanT
03-14-2010, 10:28 AM
You can see why the camp is antsy, esp when you looked at their last superstar's 4YO prep.
He ran a 127 racing post fig that day. Worth watching again, with Rachel's 4yo debut fresh in ones mind.
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andymays
03-14-2010, 10:46 AM
Half a Loaf at Oaklawn?
http://www.horseraceinsider.com/lines-in-the-sand/
Excerpt:
Miss K., a funny thing happened on the way to the $5-million Apple Blossom, which is supposed to bring together, for the first time, the reigning Horse of the Year, Rachel Alexandra, and the mare who never loses, Zenyatta. In their preps for Oaklawn, run 20 minutes apart on the same day, Zenyatta won her race at Santa Anita, but before that Rachel Alexandra was beaten at the Fair Grounds, losing for the first time since George W. Bush was president.
Wouldn't this be a kick in the head: The purse for the Apple Blossom drops to $500,000 while Rachel Alexandra stays home, licking her wounds, and the second betting choice at Oaklawn becomes Zardana, the Brazilian-bred mare who was the party-pooper at the Fair Grounds.
After Rachel Alexandra's defeat, her trainer, Steve Asmussen, talked in hushed tones about Arkansas and anywhere. "We'll have to be cautious," he said, "we want to do what's right for (the filly). . . No crystal ball could see that far ahead." There were no immediate comments from Jess Jackson, who owns Rachel Alexandra, but before the race he told the Daily Racing Form: "I'm willing to walk away from a $5-million shot for the health of the horse."
Charlie D
03-14-2010, 10:59 AM
Were there any "Curlin may need this one" headlines or "Curlin needs a race to ready for the Dubai World Cup" etc comments from Asmussen before Jaguar Trophy???
Ejmenz
03-14-2010, 12:48 PM
The only talk that matters will come over the next couple of days, and it will come from Rachel's health.
Asmussen is supposed to take the blame for this one, whether it's deserved or not, his reputation can take the hit a lot better the Rachel's.
Rachel is not comfortable on the track right now, whether she returns to the Rachel of old.
Only Rachel will tell.
On a side note: There was only one horse with Rachel at the wire, there is a chance Zardana moved up quite a bit, if I were John in that situation, I'd pull out all the tricks to push Zardana over the hump in RA's first race back.
Grits
03-14-2010, 02:46 PM
The only talk that matters will come over the next couple of days, and it will come from Rachel's health.
Asmussen is supposed to take the blame for this one, whether it's deserved or not, his reputation can take the hit a lot better the Rachel's.
Rachel is not comfortable on the track right now, whether she returns to the Rachel of old.
Only Rachel will tell.
On a side note: There was only one horse with Rachel at the wire, there is a chance Zardana moved up quite a bit, if I were John in that situation, I'd pull out all the tricks to push Zardana over the hump in RA's first race back.
Rachel's race was perfectly understandable given the special set of circumstances under which she ran. What would you do if your arch-enemy-trainer sent in what you might consider his second-stringer to face you, knowing the objectives were far different. Zardana(init to winit), Rachel(init for exercise)
Again, as Senortout posted last night, another poster (Ejmenz) notes the circumstances surrounding Rachel Alexandra's 2010 debut race. A factor that cannot be passively dismissed. A speed horse was sent east by the trainer of Zenyatta to wrestle with the HOY. The speed horse announced and sent only after it was learned that RA would, indeed, be making her debut in the NO Ladies at Fairgrounds. One can be rest assured the trainer knew, exactly, what he had, and what his goal was going against RA in this race. For anyone believing there was NOT a plan, NOT a particular goal--and one going far beyond winning this particular race--is closing one's eyes to the deep and abiding rivalry between these two owners.
The seething anger the Moss's felt at losing HOY two years in a row to Jess Jackson is, at this point in time, legendary. Still vivid today is the display the Moss's showed at the Eclipse Awards. Not forgotten, it was the worst public display of poor sportmanship I've ever witnessed--not only in their seats at the announcement of the winner, but in the interview with Jerry Moss following the awards ceremony and in interviews for days thereafter. It would be foolish for any fan to not recall this display, to dismiss it, or to note how truly unfortunate it was for Moss to conduct himself in such a manner. It didn't take anything away from how I feel about Zenyatta, and I love the mare; but it certainly gave me a better understanding of Moss.
One can call this move of sending Zardana on the part of Shirreff--just horseracing, friendly competition and desire to win races. Too, it doesn't take a tremendous amount of awareness to understand, quite likely, Jerry Moss had input into this decision as owner of the top horse in the Shirreff barn. Moss's intention being--in your face finesse. It was calculatedly handing the competition its ass. And it worked. This time.
Five million is nothing to either man, when both are Forbe's list billionaires. If memory serves me well, and it does, quite well, regarding this rivalry, Jerry Moss is the owner with the "hell hath no fury" mindset. As the owner of Zenyatta, and the owner of this attitude one can see the move as one designed and orchestrated perfectly by Moss in the desire to keep his mare's record perfect.
The most interesting move, the most sporting move will come only IF Zardana's owner and Shirreff send Zardana to face her stablemate, Zenyatta and Zenyatta's owners, Jerry and Anne Moss, in the Apple Blossom. The shoe may be on the other foot, the Mosses may be handed a loss, and their ass, by Zardana or Rachel.
Its my greatest hope that all three race in Hot Springs; and I hope Rachel moves forward after yesterday's race and wins the Apple Blossom as she's my favorite and has had the more difficult campaign and deserved HOY.
My next greatest hope . . . . is that Jerry Moss, as I noted, is handed his ass.
This, in spite of the fact that I care very much about his extraordinary racehorse, Zenyatta, and her winning record; I despise poor sportmanship displayed by owners in ANY sport, particularly this one.
statik27
03-14-2010, 03:08 PM
Again, as Senortout posted last night, another poster (Ejmenz) notes the circumstances surrounding Rachel Alexandra's 2010 debut race. A factor that cannot be passively dismissed. A speed horse was sent east by the trainer of Zenyatta to wrestle with the HOY. The speed horse announced and sent only after it was learned that RA would, indeed, be making her debut in the NO Ladies at Fairgrounds. One can be rest assured the trainer knew, exactly, what he had, and what his goal was going against RA in this race. For anyone believing there was NOT a plan, NOT a particular goal--and one going far beyond winning this particular race--is closing one's eyes to the deep and abiding rivalry between these two owners.
The seething anger the Moss's felt at losing HOY two years in a row to Jess Jackson is, at this point in time, legendary. Still vivid today is the display the Moss's showed at the Eclipse Awards. Not forgotten, it was the worst public display of poor sportmanship I've ever witnessed--not only in their seats at the announcement of the winner, but in the interview with Jerry Moss following the awards ceremony and in interviews for days thereafter. It would be foolish for any fan to not recall this display, to dismiss it, or to note how truly unfortunate it was for Moss to conduct himself in such a manner. It didn't take anything away from how I feel about Zenyatta, and I love the mare; but it certainly gave me a better understanding of Moss.
One can call this move of sending Zardana on the part of Shirreff--just horseracing, friendly competition and desire to win races. Too, it doesn't take a tremendous amount of awareness to understand, quite likely, Jerry Moss had input into this decision as owner of the top horse in the Shirreff barn. Moss's intention being--in your face finesse. It was calculatedly handing the competition its ass. And it worked. This time.
Five million is nothing to either man, when both are Forbe's list billionaires. If memory serves me well, and it does, quite well, regarding this rivalry, Jerry Moss is the owner with the "hell hath no fury" mindset. As the owner of Zenyatta, and the owner of this attitude one can see the move as one designed and orchestrated perfectly by Moss in the desire to keep his mare's record perfect.
The most interesting move, the most sporting move will come only IF Zardana's owner and Shirreff send Zardana to face her stablemate, Zenyatta and Zenyatta's owners, Jerry and Anne Moss, in the Apple Blossom. The shoe may be on the other foot, the Mosses may be handed a loss, and their ass, by Zardana or Rachel.
Its my greatest hope that all three race in Hot Springs; and I hope Rachel moves forward after yesterday's race and wins the Apple Blossom as she's my favorite and has had the more difficult campaign and deserved HOY.
My next greatest hope . . . . is that Jerry Moss, as I noted, is handed his ass.
This, in spite of the fact that I care very much about his extraordinary racehorse, Zenyatta, and her winning record; I despise poor sportmanship displayed by owners in ANY sport, particularly this one.
There's so much spinning in this post I'm dizzy. Seething anger? ungracious? WTF are you talking about?
Sure Rachel got beat in a race where we knew she would be most vulnerable and yes it happened to be by a sheriff's horse. So what. Its a freaking horse race! Anyone with the cash to run can run! There's nothing wrong with that. Suck it up and stop doing this garbage tin-foil hat routine. Just think, if Rachel runs in the AB you might get better then 3/5 on her.
Grits
03-14-2010, 03:18 PM
WTF I'm talking about is one's desire to win, keep one's mare's record intact, and one's unsportsmanlike behavior, that's WTF I'm talking about.
But WTF, obviously, you didn't see the Eclipse Awards. And worse you didn't read WTF the guy said after losing.
Now, WTF don't you get?
EOC.
statik27
03-14-2010, 03:28 PM
WTF I'm talking about is one's desire to win, keep one's mare's record intact, and one's unsportsmanlike behavior, that's WTF I'm talking about.
But WTF, obviously, you didn't see the Eclipse Awards. And worse you didn't read WTF the guy said after losing.
Now, WTF don't you get?
EOC.
Oh I get that your full of it. Both Jackson and Moss were nothing but class acts that night and said they were looking forward to running their horses against each other. I'm not sure what your problem is, but the conspiracy routine is old and tired. Moss doesn't even own that mare Zardana and besides whats wrong with Sheriffs measuring up the competition? Rachel should have run away from that filly short or not and she didn't for whatever reason, but Moss had nothing to do with that. So get over it.
Grits
03-14-2010, 03:30 PM
No SHIT Moss doesn't own the mare, Zardana, buddy?
Stupid.
statik27
03-14-2010, 03:39 PM
No SHIT Moss doesn't own the mare, Zardana, buddy?
Stupid.
Ok, so what your point? You think Moss tells Zucker what to do with his horse? You think Moss is out to get Jackson? You think behind the scenes the Zenyatta camp is hatching sinister plans to bring about the downfall of RA? Thats what your original post made it sound like. Sheriffs caught Rachel short with a decent mare, end of story, but all this other stuff your talking about is BS.
Cadillakin
03-14-2010, 03:42 PM
Again, as Senortout posted last night, another poster (Ejmenz) notes the circumstances surrounding Rachel Alexandra's 2010 debut race. A factor that cannot be passively dismissed. A speed horse was sent east by the trainer of Zenyatta to wrestle with the HOY. The speed horse announced and sent only after it was learned that RA would, indeed, be making her debut in the NO Ladies at Fairgrounds. One can be rest assured the trainer knew, exactly, what he had, and what his goal was going against RA in this race. For anyone believing there was NOT a plan, NOT a particular goal--and one going far beyond winning this particular race--is closing one's eyes to the deep and abiding rivalry between these two owners.
The seething anger the Moss's felt at losing HOY two years in a row to Jess Jackson is, at this point in time, legendary. Still vivid today is the display the Moss's showed at the Eclipse Awards. Not forgotten, it was the worst public display of poor sportmanship I've ever witnessed--not only in their seats at the announcement of the winner, but in the interview with Jerry Moss following the awards ceremony and in interviews for days thereafter. It would be foolish for any fan to not recall this display, to dismiss it, or to note how truly unfortunate it was for Moss to conduct himself in such a manner. It didn't take anything away from how I feel about Zenyatta, and I love the mare; but it certainly gave me a better understanding of Moss.
One can call this move of sending Zardana on the part of Shirreff--just horseracing, friendly competition and desire to win races. Too, it doesn't take a tremendous amount of awareness to understand, quite likely, Jerry Moss had input into this decision as owner of the top horse in the Shirreff barn. Moss's intention being--in your face finesse. It was calculatedly handing the competition its ass. And it worked. This time.
Five million is nothing to either man, when both are Forbe's list billionaires. If memory serves me well, and it does, quite well, regarding this rivalry, Jerry Moss is the owner with the "hell hath no fury" mindset. As the owner of Zenyatta, and the owner of this attitude one can see the move as one designed and orchestrated perfectly by Moss in the desire to keep his mare's record perfect.
The most interesting move, the most sporting move will come only IF Zardana's owner and Shirreff send Zardana to face her stablemate, Zenyatta and Zenyatta's owners, Jerry and Anne Moss, in the Apple Blossom. The shoe may be on the other foot, the Mosses may be handed a loss, and their ass, by Zardana or Rachel.
Its my greatest hope that all three race in Hot Springs; and I hope Rachel moves forward after yesterday's race and wins the Apple Blossom as she's my favorite and has had the more difficult campaign and deserved HOY.
My next greatest hope . . . . is that Jerry Moss, as I noted, is handed his ass.
This, in spite of the fact that I care very much about his extraordinary racehorse, Zenyatta, and her winning record; I despise poor sportmanship displayed by owners in ANY sport, particularly this one.
Jeez.. I thought you were one of the sensible ones in this forum... I was mistaken... All I can say to that post is Wow...
Grits
03-14-2010, 03:48 PM
I'm sorry you think me one of the nonsensible ones, Rick. Sorry to learn this.
You had told me long before the end of the year what fine folks there are.
Still, I'm sorry that Mr.Moss chose to behave as he did--during, and in the days following--the Eclipse Awards. Very sorry actually.
andymays
03-14-2010, 05:18 PM
RACHEL WON’T RUN IN APPLE BLOSSOM
http://www.paulickreport.com/blog/rachel-wont-blossom/
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Rachel Alexandra Out of Apple Blossom
http://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-racing/articles/55888/rachel-alexandra-out-of-apple-blossom
Excerpt:
“Yesterday’s race while a disappointment, helped us define Rachel Alexandra’s racing condition," Jackson said in his statement. "While she is healthy, just as I had anticipated she is not in top form. Therefore, I decided today she will not be going to the Oaklawn Invitational on April 9. Steve and I discussed this fully and we now regret we tried to accelerate her training in order meet the Apple Blossom schedule. We have a whole season before us to help define her greatness. She will tell us when her next race will be.”
The Daily Racing Form quoted Asmussen as saying, “She’s clearly not up to her previous level.”
andymays
03-14-2010, 05:40 PM
http://www.thoroughbredtimes.com/racing-news/2010/March/14/Rachel-Alexandra-to-miss-Apple-Blossom.aspx
Excerpt:
“Steve and I discussed this fully and we now regret we tried to accelerate her training in order meet the Apple Blossom schedule. We have a whole season before us to help define her greatness. She will tell us when her next race will be.”
Space Monkey
03-14-2010, 05:52 PM
Grits, what a warped view you have of this situation. Moss/Sheriffs sent their B horse to run against Rachel. Thats an in your face challenge. I don't know how to spell "mano o mano", lol, but I'm sure you got my point. It was a gutsy move. A sporting one. RA was supposed to wipe the track with Zardana. You're saying bad sportsmanship???? You're demanding that Sheriff's enter Zardana against Z in the Apple Blossom. Who the f are you? Its up to the owners and I guess you need reminding that is exactly what happened on a few occasions with Life is Sweet. Sheriff's will do it if Zardana's owners want to. You're coming across very poorly on this one Grits.
Space Monkey
03-14-2010, 06:00 PM
It took her 6 months to get back to the track and thats "accelerating her training"? I'm in the camp of those that think something was wrong and her connections did an outstanding job of hiding it. Its rare that you can keep anything away from the media these days.
Space Monkey
03-14-2010, 06:06 PM
I should have said Sheriff's not Moss/Sheriff's as I'm aware that Moss doesn't own Zardana.
andymays
03-14-2010, 06:34 PM
http://www.fairgroundsracecourse.com/news/archives/rachel-alexandra-wont-go-oaklawn-apple-blossom
Excerpt:
What will be her major goals for the year now? “It’s up to her. She has to show us that she’s back up to her ’09 form. We had progressively accelerated her conditioning and it didn’t work, so we’re going to gear back, let her develop at her own pace. I can’t give you a prediction as to when but it might take a couple of months.”
Grits
03-14-2010, 06:55 PM
Grits, what a warped view you have of this situation. Moss/Sheriffs sent their B horse to run against Rachel. Thats an in your face challenge. I don't know how to spell "mano o mano", lol, but I'm sure you got my point. It was a gutsy move. A sporting one. RA was supposed to wipe the track with Zardana. You're saying bad sportsmanship???? You're demanding that Sheriff's enter Zardana against Z in the Apple Blossom. Who the f are you? Its up to the owners and I guess you need reminding that is exactly what happened on a few occasions with Life is Sweet. Sheriff's will do it if Zardana's owners want to. You're coming across very poorly on this one Grits.
Who the F*** am I? (Space, I didn't really need that, I had enought of What The F*** earlier today.):faint:
Anyway, we don't agree for the most part.
Still, my wording was poor, as its not my intent to demand anything, so let me say, I hope Mr Zetcher, Zardana's owner and Mr.Shirreffs feel as compelled to send Mr.Zetcher's speedball in the Apple Blossom as he was in the 200K non graded New Orleans Ladies yesterday against Rachel. Considering his "B" mare has run in Grade 2s in 6 of her last 10 races, all on the turf, but the most recent two on poly, the last of which was 4th behind Saint Trinian and stablemate, BC Ladies Classic winner, Life Is Sweet. Zardana doesn't read too much like a "B" stringer to me with 7 wins in 18 starts, but of course, I could be wrong. Too, the "all at once" surface switch back to the dirt she was born on prior to coming here--but not having raced on in how many years? I could be wrong on that one, too.
And my thoughts on Jerry Moss's behavior during and after the Eclipse Awards remain unchanged.
Dahoss9698
03-14-2010, 08:23 PM
Who the F*** am I? (Space, I didn't really need that, I had enought of What The F*** earlier today.):faint:
Anyway, we don't agree for the most part.
Still, my wording was poor, as its not my intent to demand anything, so let me say, I hope Mr Zetcher, Zardana's owner and Mr.Shirreffs feel as compelled to send Mr.Zetcher's speedball in the Apple Blossom as he was in the 200K non graded New Orleans Ladies yesterday against Rachel. Considering his "B" mare has run in Grade 2s in 6 of her last 10 races, all on the turf, but the most recent two on poly, the last of which was 4th behind Saint Trinian and stablemate, BC Ladies Classic winner, Life Is Sweet. Zardana doesn't read too much like a "B" stringer to me with 7 wins in 18 starts, but of course, I could be wrong. Too, the "all at once" surface switch back to the dirt she was born on prior to coming here--but not having raced on in how many years? I could be wrong on that one, too.
And my thoughts on Jerry Moss's behavior during and after the Eclipse Awards remain unchanged.
You get absolutely no arguement from me about Moss's behavior in regards to the eclipse awards. He acted the way most people think Jess jackson acts. Sort of ironic.
I do disagree with the speedball part, when talking about Zardana. She's not really a speedball. She was a few lengths behind Rachel for a good portion of the race yesterday.
It will interesting to see who shows up for The Apple Blossom now. It will also be interesting to see people's reactions if either of Shireffs "Z" ladies don't run in the race.
Hanover1
03-14-2010, 08:30 PM
This is my take....For what it's worth.
I keep seeing reports in the media that Rachel was moving comfortably. I didn't see that. The first turn she was rank. She looked like she was going to bolt going into the first turn. She went wide on the same turn and I thought they were doing that just to get more out of her. She went in slow fractions (for her). Calvin was practicly standing up through out the first 1/2 mile and choking her (which plays into his comments that they didnt want the lead). He makes an awkward motion for the left reign after the half mile pole and at this point I thought she spit the bit.
I would have loved to see her win this but if history is any indication you never bet a horse coming back off a six month lay off who has only been on the track for 5 weeks and none of the workouts appeared to be great. She should be fine off this. Will she be the same dominant horse, maybe not but who cares? If she is competitive and sound, let her run. The same people who are calling for her to retire because God forbid she should lose are the same people who bitched and moaned when Smarty Jones and others similar retire too early. She is a young 4 yrs old let her run.
We can all go down the list of horses that didn't show up for a race. Heck even Curlin looked shot in the Haskell and we saw what he did after that. Look at Secretariat's losses at 3yr's old. Look similar? I don't want to compare horses in history but history is an indicator that it may be ok. Let's wait and see.
Well thought out...... :ThmbUp:
Show Me the Wire
03-14-2010, 08:40 PM
I don't see anybody saying she should retire. In fact, everyone thinks she should be going on to the AB. Hey, this was a prep race, no big deal to lose. There is no reason this horse shouldn't be competing for part of a $5 mil purse if she is healthy.
Going forward to the AB is the rational and logical move off a tightener. The connections are making an illogical move by not moving forward, off this tightener, if everything is okay.
Dahoss9698
03-14-2010, 08:42 PM
I don't see anybody saying she should retire. In fact, everyone thinks she should be going on to the AB. Hey, this was a prep race, no big deal to lose. There is no reason this horse shouldn't be competing for part of a $5 mil purse if she is healthy.
Going forward to the AB is the rational and logical move off a tightener. The connections are making an illogical move by not moving forward, off this tightener, if everything is okay.
It's illogical for you to think you know what's best for a team that is responsible for the last 3 HOY's.
Show Me the Wire
03-14-2010, 08:44 PM
whatever DaHoss :sleeping:
Dahoss9698
03-14-2010, 08:47 PM
Truth hurts obviously
Robert Goren
03-14-2010, 08:49 PM
Truth hurts obviously:ThmbUp: :lol:
Show Me the Wire
03-14-2010, 08:55 PM
Truth hurts obviously
And what truth is so hurtful to me. The connections wanted to compete in a $5 mil race and they needed a prep. They got their prep and the horse is healthy, just like the owner anticipated, so it would be logical to follow through on the plans, intent, to run in the AB.
Anything less is illogical according to their stated intent and their reassuring comments after the race.
So tell me how my pointing out a complete reversal in their position, without some significant unforseen event, is illogical on part. BTW being beaten in a prep race that you are only 80% ready for is not a significant unforeseen event.
Show Me the Wire
03-14-2010, 09:13 PM
Oh DaHoss, I get it now.
It is logical to protect her reputation. Why didn't you say so. I was thinking along the lines of what the esteemed prof said, that the game was played on the field.
Oh zilly me, I took the connections at their word when they said they were going to play the game on the field. That was absolutely an error on my part.
PaceAdvantage
03-14-2010, 09:22 PM
It took her 6 months to get back to the track and thats "accelerating her training"? I'm in the camp of those that think something was wrong and her connections did an outstanding job of hiding it. Its rare that you can keep anything away from the media these days.Then why didn't they just retire her? She won HOY. If she was injured, as you speculate, and injured so much so that she is now just a shell of her former self (not my opinion), it makes absolutely no sense trying to bring her back.
Horses retire all the time...
horses4courses
03-14-2010, 09:27 PM
Then why didn't they just retire her? She won HOY. If she was injured, as you speculate, and injured so much so that she is now just a shell of her former self (not my opinion), it makes absolutely no sense trying to bring her back.
Horses retire all the time...
Agreed.
They thought she was coming around the right way, and that she would perform better than she did in this prep race.
They would not have ever run her if they feared she might not be right.
BluegrassProf
03-14-2010, 10:10 PM
Oh DaHoss, I get it now.You prove - with remarkable consistency - that you, in fact, don't get it.
DaHoss, like any rational human being, recognizes a clear, clear difference between soundness and fitness. I can't speak for him, but personally, I don't know how to say it any more plainly.
If you want the game played on the field - which I said, and you seem to agree with - why on earth would you want either of these two to be less than ready? What in the heck good would that do?
For crissakes, stop flailing about. It's embarassing.
H4C & PA: You're absolutely right. :ThmbUp:
Dahoss9698
03-14-2010, 10:14 PM
And what truth is so hurtful to me. The connections wanted to compete in a $5 mil race and they needed a prep. They got their prep and the horse is healthy, just like the owner anticipated, so it would be logical to follow through on the plans, intent, to run in the AB.
Anything less is illogical according to their stated intent and their reassuring comments after the race.
So tell me how my pointing out a complete reversal in their position, without some significant unforseen event, is illogical on part. BTW being beaten in a prep race that you are only 80% ready for is not a significant unforeseen event.
The truth is it is illogical for you to think you know what is best for her. To think you know better than they do about their horse is nuts. That's what I said. You can be you and twist it all around, but that is what I was referring to.
Let's take a look at what her connections said today.
"Yesterday's race while a disappointment, helped us define Rachel Alexandra's racing condition. While she is healthy, just as I had anticipated, she is not in top form. Therefore, I decided today she will not be going to the Oaklawn Invitational on April 9. Steve and I discussed this fully and we now regret we tried to accelerate her training in order meet the Apple Blossom schedule. We have a whole season before us to help define her greatness. She will tell us when her next race will be."
They are moving forward. Just not how YOU think they should be. I'll defer to their knowledge over yours when it comes to their horse. They seem to know what they are doing.
bisket
03-14-2010, 10:19 PM
everything assmussen is doing in rachel's training says to me if they don't get rachel to slow down in the first 1/2 mile they don't think she can win against the type of competition she's gonna face this year. they already know that if they try to run with quality he'll blow the doors right off her, and then both of will probably be passed by zen in the stretch. every other horse that i know of that runs the way rachel does (head high) its taken a few years to get the horse to settle. so my belief is this will be a long drawn out process. i think the next time rachel is on the track zen may very well be there :lol: . moss said he would follow them around the country if thats what it takes. that oughtta really get enerybody fired up :lol:
Show Me the Wire
03-14-2010, 10:27 PM
BluegrassProf:
I appreciate your concern.
Yes, there is a clear difference between soundness and fitness (conditioning). I have been espousing the diference all along and highlighting how the connections' actions, especially now are indicating something more than a fitness or conditioning issue.
It would also be nice if you didn't put words in my mouth either. I never supported the idea, "either of these two to be less than ready."
What I questioned is why Rachel wouldn't be ready, based on the connection's prior intent and statements after the race? I don't feel embarrased about asking that question or clarifying that I am not calling for Rachel to be retired.
Show Me the Wire
03-14-2010, 10:36 PM
The truth is it is illogical for you to think you know what is best for her. To think you know better than they do about their horse is nuts. That's what I said. You can be you and twist it all around, but that is what I was referring to.
Let's take a look at what her connections said today.
"Yesterday's race while a disappointment, helped us define Rachel Alexandra's racing condition. While she is healthy, just as I had anticipated, she is not in top form. Therefore, I decided today she will not be going to the Oaklawn Invitational on April 9. Steve and I discussed this fully and we now regret we tried to accelerate her training in order meet the Apple Blossom schedule. We have a whole season before us to help define her greatness. She will tell us when her next race will be."
They are moving forward. Just not how YOU think they should be. I'll defer to their knowledge over yours when it comes to their horse. They seem to know what they are doing.
Correction, not how I think they should move forward, but how the connections said they were going to move forward. The wanted a prep and to keep on going after the prep. They ran their prep and now they are reversing course.
BTW I am not the only one that is wondering why the plans have changed. There are many other posters that stated Rachel should continue on to the AB.
In fact in the poll thread, the last time I looked at least 14 posters voted saying that Rachel would win the AB off her Fair Grounds prep. So I guess I am not that illogical to have expected Rachel to progress off the prep.
I would be remiss if I didn't compliment you on your moments of lucidity yesterday in your posting about Rachel's poor performance. Sorry to see you revert to your personal attack mode.
Show Me the Wire
03-14-2010, 10:43 PM
...........................
H4C & PA: You're absolutely right. :ThmbUp:
Btw it is intersesting I draw such personal attention. Thanks for the heads up.
It is difficult to hide a bright beacon under a basket.
Dahoss9698
03-14-2010, 10:47 PM
Correction, not how I think they should move forward, but how the connections said they were going to move forward. The wanted a prep and to keep on going after the prep. They ran their prep and now they are reversing course.
BTW I am not the only one that is wondering why the plans have changed. There are many other posters that stated Rachel should continue on to the AB.
In fact in the poll thread, the last time I looked at least 14 posters voted saying that Rachel would win the AB off her Fair Grounds prep. So I guess I am not that illogical to have expected Rachel to progress off the prep.
I would be remiss if I didn't compliment you on your moments of lucidity yesterday in your posting about Rachel's poor performance. Sorry to see you revert to your personal attack mode.
Sorry to see you revert to your victim role. Here are your words.
Going forward to the AB is the rational and logical move off a tightener. The connections are making an illogical move by not moving forward, off this tightener, if everything is okay.
So, according to you moving forward and not going to the Apple Blossom is illogical. So, according to Jess Jackson, they are moving forward, just not in the Apple Blossom.
Again, I trust them to do what is right by her. They know what they are doing. You don't.
They are moving forward. Just in a different direction. Nothing illogical about that. The only thing illogical is thinking you know more than them. Plans change in this game daily. This is nothing new.
horses4courses
03-14-2010, 10:55 PM
Sorry to see you revert to your victim role. Here are your words.
So, according to you moving forward and not going to the Apple Blossom is illogical. So, according to Jess Jackson, they are moving forward, just not in the Apple Blossom.
Again, I trust them to do what is right by her. They know what they are doing. You don't.
They are moving forward. Just in a different direction. Nothing illogical about that. The only thing illogical is thinking you know more than them. Plans change in this game daily. This is nothing new.
Agreed DaHoss.
Here's a quote out of Brisnet today from both connections.
RA's camp are doing what is right for the horse, and Z's camp respects that.
We tried and we really wanted to go (to the Apple Blossom)," Jackson said. "It's unfortunate but the timing just wasn't right. For the health of the horse. It's obvious she's not in top shape. The race (Saturday) was to define how far along she was. I repeatedly told people she was only 80 or 85 percent of what I thought was up to her top condition last year. That race proved it."
Jackson was noncommittal on the four-year-old filly's major goals for the year.
"It's up to her," he stated. "She has to show us that she's back up to her '09 form. We had progressively accelerated her conditioning and it didn't work, so we're going to gear back, let her develop at her own pace. I can't give you a prediction as to when but it might take a couple of months."
"We're disappointed that we're not going to be able to face each other in the Apple Blossom," said Zenyatta's owner, Jerry Moss. "Hopefully we can meet down the line. We respect both Steve and Mr. Jackson as horsemen and they're going to do what's right for their horse. That's all anybody could ask for.
Show Me the Wire
03-14-2010, 10:57 PM
Sorry to see you revert to your victim role. Here are your words.
So, according to you moving forward and not going to the Apple Blossom is illogical. So, according to Jess Jackson, they are moving forward, just not in the Apple Blossom.
Again, I trust them to do what is right by her. They know what they are doing. You don't.
They are moving forward. Just in a different direction. Nothing illogical about that. The only thing illogical is thinking you know more than them.
Those are my words without the whole context. And I am not interesting reposting the entire text.
Again, you misrepresent, I never said they didn't know what they were doing and I know what is best for Rachel. I questioned, just like many others on this board, why are they reversing course from the stated intent if Rachel is well and healthy off the prep.
Let's clarify I never said the connections mismanaged her, or advocated the idea a prep race was the wrong way to handle her comeback. I never said they she do this or that. So where are you coming up with this false concepts you are attributing to me?
Once again, I only questioned why they reversed course, if everything is great in Rachel land.
So are we clear, I am not saying I know what is best for Rachel and I am not accusing the connections of incompetency.
Dahoss9698
03-14-2010, 11:06 PM
Those are my words without the whole context. And I am not interesting reposting the entire text.
Again, you misrepresent, I never said they didn't know what they were doing and I know what is best for Rachel. I questioned, just like many others on this board, why aare they reversing course from the stated intent if Rachel is well and healthy off the prep.
Let's clarify I never said the connections mismanaged her, or advocated the idea a prep race was the wrong way to handle her comeback. I never said they she do this or that. So where are you coming up with this false concepts you are attributing to me?
Once again, I only questioned why they reversed course, if everything is great in Rachel land.
Do you really think anyone buys this stuff? I'm not attributing any false concepts to you. I am going by what YOU said. I posted what YOU said.
At this point I question whether or not you even know what you are saying. They reversed course because they feel she isn't ready. They said they were rushing her to make the Apple Blossom and after her performance yesterday they might have made an error. She isn't 100%.
At what point will that be a good enough reason for you?
pandy
03-14-2010, 11:22 PM
Jackson is one of the most unpredictable guys racing has ever seen. When he first gets Rachel he runs her aggressively against the boys, then he refuses to run in the B.C. even though a matchup with Zenyatta would have been historic, and his bizarre reasoning is that Curlin didn't run well on plastic. Then he doesn't run her for 6 months, says he's going to run in the Apple Blossom, now changes his mind, even though she came out of the race fine and they gave him everything he wanted (surface, distance, purse)...talk about eccentric rich guys. It make you long for the days of Charles Howard, Ogden Phipps, John Nerud, Martha Gerry, etc. These people owned horses that never scratched due to conditions, carried in excess of 130 pounds, and raced often (Forego, owned by Gerry, raced 57 times).
Dahoss9698
03-14-2010, 11:25 PM
Jackson is one of the most unpredictable guys racing has ever seen. When he first gets Rachel he runs her aggressively against the boys, then he refuses to run in the B.C. even though a matchup with Zenyatta would have been historic, and his bizarre reasoning is that Curlin didn't run well on plastic. Then he doesn't run her for 6 months, says he's going to run in the Apple Blossom, now changes his mind, even though she came out of the race fine and they gave him everything he wanted (surface, distance, purse)...talk about eccentric rich guys. It make you long for the days of Charles Howard, Ogden Phipps, John Nerud, Martha Gerry, etc. These people owned horses that never scratched due to conditions, carried in excess of 130 pounds, and raced often (Forego, owned by Gerry, raced 57 times).
Yeah, imagine a horse scratching if the track comes up wet?
Hanover1
03-14-2010, 11:29 PM
Jackson is one of the most unpredictable guys racing has ever seen. When he first gets Rachel he runs her aggressively against the boys, then he refuses to run in the B.C. even though a matchup with Zenyatta would have been historic, and his bizarre reasoning is that Curlin didn't run well on plastic. Then he doesn't run her for 6 months, says he's going to run in the Apple Blossom, now changes his mind, even though she came out of the race fine and they gave him everything he wanted (surface, distance, purse)...talk about eccentric rich guys. It make you long for the days of Charles Howard, Ogden Phipps, John Nerud, Martha Gerry, etc. These people owned horses that never scratched due to conditions, carried in excess of 130 pounds, and raced often (Forego, owned by Gerry, raced 57 times).
If you read closely the comments by the connections, the answers are all there. You seem to be buying into all the garbage alluding to ducking, backing out, ect.....Once again READ the comments by the trainer and owner of this mare, and consider that they are telling the truth. The mare aint ready....how much clearer does it have to be for you to see this??
Hanover1
03-14-2010, 11:31 PM
Yeah, imagine a horse scratching if the track comes up wet?
Zen scratched last year when the track was off, and one of Rachels best races was on an off track....where are we going with this??
Seabiscuit@AR
03-14-2010, 11:58 PM
There is only one way to truly know if RA is ready to face Zenyatta and that is to race against Zenyatta. If RA does happen to lose round one that does not matter as it will give her added fitness for the next round
The Apple Blossom still looks a good race for both horses
Show Me the Wire
03-15-2010, 12:05 AM
.............. They said they were rushing her to make the Apple Blossom and after her performance yesterday they might have made an error. She isn't 100%.
At what point will that be a good enough reason for you?
Maybe you could ask Seabiscuit@AR the same question?
As I said I like many others I am only asking why? Why won't she be 100% off a prep and more works?
Why don't you understand the validity of the question? And the only reason I have to keep repeating the question is because I repeatedly reply to your question about why the question is valid.
Dahoss9698
03-15-2010, 12:13 AM
Zen scratched last year when the track was off, and one of Rachels best races was on an off track....where are we going with this??
I know. I was pointing out the irony of it all.
Dahoss9698
03-15-2010, 12:21 AM
Maybe you could ask Seabiscuit@AR the same question?
As I said I like many others I am only asking why? Why won't she be 100% off a prep and more works?
Why don't you understand the validity of the question? And the only reason I have to keep repeating the question is because I repeatedly reply to your question about why the question is valid.
Don't you ever tire of this? Why won't she be ready? That's how you are going to spin it now. Who could possibly answer that? There is no answer.
You are so disingenuous it's sickening. Of course, they could put her in the gate in the AB. She won't be ready to run her race and maybe it knocks her out for the rest of the year.
Or, they could not rush to make a race she won't be 100% for and we have a chance of seeing her run through the year. Why do you pretend such basic concepts are unheard of?
When connections of a exciting 3 year old that breaks his maiden in March decide to not rush to make the Derby, do you wonder why? It's the same thing. It's in the best interest of that 3 year old to take it slow, they have a whole year ahead of them. Why rush to make something you won't be ready for?
You fancy yourself a pretty sharp person, so this stuff should be obvious.
Show Me the Wire
03-15-2010, 12:36 AM
Don't you ever tire of it? Your selective targeting is what is disingenuous.
Why harp on me?
Why don't you ask Seabiscuit@AR why he said this, "The Apple Blossom still looks a good race for both horses." only recently after reading your discourse about the connections knowing what is good for the horse.
Again to clarify for you, I am not saying the connections are ducking anything or anybody, or they do not know what they are doing, etc.
Apparently it appears the connections have not done a good job of communicating to the public why Rachel would not be ready, for a race the public clamored to see.
Maybe that is the problem, a communication problem. If that is disigenuous, so be it.
andymays
03-15-2010, 11:22 AM
http://www.usatoday.com/sports/horses/2010-03-14-zenyatta-alexandra-dream-race-wont-happen-at-apple-bottom_N.htm
Excerpt:
Asmussen called the performance "extremely disappointing." He said no medical issues had surfaced. "I'm hoping it's only fitness we're waiting for and dealing with," he said.
He acknowledged the possibility that the 3-year-old campaign — viewed as one of the most impressive ever put together by a Thoroughbred of either sex — may have taken a significant toll.
"Obviously, that is a concern of ours," Asmussen said. "That was what the break was for."
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http://www.courier-journal.com/blogs/trackside/2010/03/curious-that-jackson-calls-off-apple.html
Excerpt:
That owner Jess Jackson pulled the plug so quickly on Rachel Alexandra running in Oaklawn's April 9 Apple Blossom is so uncharacteristic that it makes you wonder if she had a problem during her six-month hiatus since her gut-wrenching Woodward victory, or that her camp doesn't want to risk getting trounced by Zenyatta. I don't see a third scenario-- unless it's that Rachel came out of her defeat with an undisclosed issue.
Robert Goren
03-15-2010, 11:33 AM
I think I figured out what went wrong. Borel secretly became a Muslim and threw the race to a foreign bred horse just to make America look bad. :rolleyes:
OntheRail
03-15-2010, 11:48 AM
Shes done...
You only say this cause you have a nagging fear that.... Rachel is the ONE. ;)
OntheRail
03-15-2010, 11:56 AM
If she can't beat Zardana, how is she going to beat anyone good?
The only way they can save face is say she was injured in the race and retire her. That way, people won't hold her loss against her.
That didn't look like a horse who 'needed' a race and was ready to take on the worlds best in a few weeks.
No she looked exactly like a horse that "needed" a race. What was her training like last year before her first start? Not rushed and hurried along to make a date that was not on the dance card to begin with I can tell ya. :faint:
Dahoss9698
03-15-2010, 12:51 PM
Don't you ever tire of it? Your selective targeting is what is disingenuous.
Why harp on me?
Why don't you ask Seabiscuit@AR why he said this, "The Apple Blossom still looks a good race for both horses." only recently after reading your discourse about the connections knowing what is good for the horse.
Again to clarify for you, I am not saying the connections are ducking anything or anybody, or they do not know what they are doing, etc.
Apparently it appears the connections have not done a good job of communicating to the public why Rachel would not be ready, for a race the public clamored to see.
Maybe that is the problem, a communication problem. If that is disigenuous, so be it.
It's sad to see you play the victim. Really is. I'm not sure how much better you would like it to be communicated.
One more time here is what Jess Jackson said,
"Yesterday's race while a disappointment, helped us define Rachel Alexandra's racing condition. While she is healthy, just as I had anticipated, she is not in top form. Therefore, I decided today she will not be going to the Oaklawn Invitational on April 9. Steve and I discussed this fully and we now regret we tried to accelerate her training in order meet the Apple Blossom schedule. We have a whole season before us to help define her greatness. She will tell us when her next race will be."
Anyone without an agenda, or not trolling will probably read that as him saying they rushed her. She's healthy, but she's not in top racing condition. They don't want to run her again, in what will likely be a grueling race if she isn't in top physical condidition. That is why they are passing.
What more would you like? How would you like them to better communicate it? Should Jess Jackson call you personally and explain it to you?
dartman51
03-15-2010, 01:11 PM
I think I figured out what went wrong. Borel secretly became a Muslim and threw the race to a foreign bred horse just to make America look bad. :rolleyes:
I think you may be on to something there, RG. That makes as much sense as most of the CRAP spewed here by some. :ThmbUp:
Show Me the Wire
03-15-2010, 03:07 PM
My goodness DaHoss, how I am playing the victim, by pointing out that others have the same question?
Of course she isn't in top racing shape, that was the purpose of the prep and continuing works to get her into racing shape.
When I make a mistake I have a track record of acknowledging such. Recently, I admitted my error about racing officials being present during the administration of lasix and I believe, it was to you, I graciously admitted my error about Zenyatta and the effects of slow pace, when you corrected me.
And, gasp, even at times I have apologized to other posters.
So it really is very disingenuous to try and paint me as some egotistical persona that can't accept being proven wrong, having a hidden agenda to discredit the connections, or that I am some sort of victim.
As I said, multiple times, it is not about me, many others apparently are not getting the same message as you, since other fans still believe Rachel should continue to the AB. Since the connections are the ones putting out the communications, it would seem they are not being effective, in getting their desired message clearly understood, by everyone.
However, if my postings, along these lines cause you so much grief, I will cease. It is not of any importance to me to convince you of anything. In return, I hope is not such great importance for you to convince me of something either. I am satisfied with the concept of having different of opinions regarding the withdrawal of Rachel from the AB.
What is important to me is that I am not responsible for causing you anguish, causing you time to respond to my posts, and having you experience grief in general..
Okay?
Earlier, you asked if I tired of this back and forth, I am giving you a sincere answer. The future is your prerogative.
Dahoss9698
03-15-2010, 03:20 PM
Yeah, it's not about you. Put me on ignore. Please. The poor me stuff is too much.
I don't know what else to say. No matter what they (Jess Jackson and Asmussen) say, people are not going to believe them. That doesn't reflect the way they are communicating. It reflects the people that are interpreting it. People hear or see what they want to. If you said 2 plus 2 is 4, I guarantee someone will dispute it. Does that mean you are communicating it incorrectly?
You cause me no grief. In fact it would seem to be the complete opposite. I don't let you get away with your nonsense and that bothers you. Oh well. You're a model poster and I'm a mean guy. Happy?
Show Me the Wire
03-15-2010, 03:36 PM
Well I guess Joe Drape didn't get the memo passed around. Part of his quote, "It is far more important to preserve that sentiment, as well as Rachel Alexandra’s dignity, than it is to force some sort of showdown that has often ended in calamity." [bolding added]
Now you will call me the victim again, because I pointed the above out yesterday,that it might be about preserving her reputation and that she is not "healthy." Healthy can mean she is worm free and not feverish. It doesn't necessarily mean she is healthy enough to race.
The connections are saying two plus two equal may equal 4 or something else.
Hurry up e-mail Mr. Drape about how he is misinterpreting the connections communications and they are clearly not trying to preserve her reputation.
Dahoss9698
03-15-2010, 03:45 PM
I'm shocked you are twisting that column also. You are the perfect example of someone who sees what they want to see. I'm not wasting anymore time on this, or you.
You're clueless.
WinterTriangle
03-15-2010, 04:07 PM
You'd actually think Rachel finished up the track instead of being beaten less than a length.
A horse like Rachel would never finish up the track because she has too much innate talent and athleticism.
I agree with Dahoss that she wasn't 100%.
But I have nagging doubts. What I would say at this point, and I said why in other posts, is that she may never be the same horse she was in 2009.
Nothing against her.
Since there are people who think Assmussen ruined curlin, he's going to have a hard time shaking that perception if it happens again.
Time will tell.
Space Monkey
03-15-2010, 04:44 PM
Then why didn't they just retire her?
Because Jess is her owner.
I happen to think that Jess and the Moss' are 2 of the best owners in the sport who just happen to have the 2 best horses in the sport.
It's just speculation on my part that I think RA had a problem. In my mind I'm making an excuse for her. Although I favor Z, I want them both to win every race they run until they meet, and every one after.
Space Monkey
03-15-2010, 04:48 PM
Who the F*** am I? (Space, I didn't really need that, I had enought of What The F*** earlier today.)
I agree, I apologize.
Grits
03-15-2010, 04:50 PM
I agree, I apologize.
;)
Space Monkey
03-15-2010, 04:56 PM
Zardana doesn't read too much like a "B" stringer to me with 7 wins in 18 starts
I meant that Zardana was a B horse in Sheriif's filly/mare stable. Not a B horse in quality. Hell, I consider Life is Sweet a B horse too when your trainer is sending out Zenyatta. :D
andymays
03-15-2010, 05:05 PM
Haskin's Analysis: Rachel Not the Same | BloodHorse.com
http://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-racing/articles/55896/haskins-analysis-rachel-not-the-same
Excerpt:
It wasn't that she was beaten as much as the manner in which she was beaten. She actually ran to her last six-furlong work, which was totally out of character for her. The warning signs from that work carried over into the race, and one could deduce from Steve Asmussen’s comments that there were major concerns going into this race. There was a reason Asmussen put a figure-8 bridle on her, and to me she didn’t look as comfortable during the race as she did in her races last year and never exuded that feeling of dominance.
Unlike last year, when Calvin Borel always had her on a loose rein down the backstretch, she was under a tight rein on Saturday, pulling more than usual.
Unlike last year, when she relaxed nicely and was always in sync with Borel, there seemed to be more head movement this time.
Unlike last year, when she kept her head straight ahead at all times, she cocked her head to the outside several times, most notably turning for home, just as she did in that six-furlong work.
Unlike last year, Borel had to make her change leads at the head of the stretch.
Kimsus
03-15-2010, 07:18 PM
From the same article:
Borel said he wanted to let her run her race and pass the 42-1 pacesetter Fighter Wing early, but he was told not to get into her until the sixteenth pole. Asmussen said it was his job to have her fit enough, and admitted he didn’t accomplish that. The final fractions of :24 1/5 and :06 2/5 were solid enough, as was her 100 Beyer Speed Figure, but certainly not close to what Rachel is capable of. But, again, this was a prep.
What was most curious was Jess Jackson's announcement that Rachel was out of the Apple Blossom an hour or so after Asmussen was quoted as saying how great she came out of the race, mentally and physically. Go figure that one out.
cpitt84
03-15-2010, 07:22 PM
Since there are people who think Assmussen ruined curlin, he's going to have a hard time shaking that perception if it happens again.
Time will tell.
Interesting. That does worry me, though.
While watching her race last year was phenomenal, it may have been her last.
Show Me the Wire
03-15-2010, 10:21 PM
From the same article:
Borel said he wanted to let her run her race and pass the 42-1 pacesetter Fighter Wing early, but he was told not to get into her until the sixteenth pole. Asmussen said it was his job to have her fit enough, and admitted he didn’t accomplish that. The final fractions of :24 1/5 and :06 2/5 were solid enough, as was her 100 Beyer Speed Figure, but certainly not close to what Rachel is capable of. But, again, this was a prep.
What was most curious was Jess Jackson's announcement that Rachel was out of the Apple Blossom an hour or so after Asmussen was quoted as saying how great she came out of the race, mentally and physically. Go figure that one out.
I hope I am not twisting the column's intent, or seeing only want I want to see, but, to me it seems the author is stating there is a valid question about why Rachel would not be ready, based on the connections anticipations, intents and comments after the race.
Seabiscuit@AR
03-15-2010, 11:33 PM
If RA was not ready on Saturday why did she start 1.05? If it was truly obvious that a horse off her prep was vulnerable off the layoff there would have been more bettors willing to take a stand against her in the betting market
Good horses start longer than their normal odds first up if the betting public figures they need the run
permenbg
03-15-2010, 11:45 PM
I enjoy the race very much. i belive i saw where she was trained by another trainer before her last layoff. Maby,Wiggins keep her a little better fit. she look tired comming down the streach. No doubt , if she is sound, she will run better her next race. One otherthing She caught a good older mare that ran a very good race.
permenbg
Robert Goren
03-15-2010, 11:48 PM
The horse came up to her, then RA hung with her for a ways, and then gave up the fight. I under stand Jackson's concern. This is not some thing you want to see in a champion. It would have been more a sign of a fitness issue if the other had blown by her. But to dig in and stay with a fast closing horse for while before giving way shows something else. I hope they figure it out and are able to correct it. JMO
PaceAdvantage
03-16-2010, 04:05 AM
A horse like Rachel would never finish up the track because she has too much innate talent and athleticism.I don't agree with this, but that's not really that important.
PaceAdvantage
03-16-2010, 04:10 AM
The horse came up to her, then RA hung with her for a ways, and then gave up the fight.I don't term losing by .5-.75 lengths "giving up the fight," especially when the jock wrapped up on her late...
He gave her four taps lefty when Zardana appeared to be a serious threat, then two taps righty, then wrapped up on her....just like he should have in a prep.
Asmussen said she came out the race great, mentally & physically. I'll hang my hat on Steve's words here and declare Rachel is certainly not done and that Zardana will go on to show this race was not some fluke.
joanied
03-16-2010, 05:03 PM
I don't term losing by .5-.75 lengths "giving up the fight," especially when the jock wrapped up on her late...
He gave her four taps lefty when Zardana appeared to be a serious threat, then two taps righty, then wrapped up on her....just like he should have in a prep.
Asmussen said she came out the race great, mentally & physically. I'll hang my hat on Steve's words here and declare Rachel is certainly not done and that Zardana will go on to show this race was not some fluke.
Calvin did indeed wrap up on her before the wire...no doubt he didn't feel enough response once he got to using the whip...and, IMHO, he did the right thing...I think maybe a lot of folks missed that he did just stop riding her at that point.
And again, IMO...beween the long layoff, only getting 5 works into her, the fact they are trying to change her running style, that figure 8, and the instructions given to Calvin...getting beat by 1/2 length is far from a disgrace...a lesser horse would not have even been in the money.
I swear...too many jump to conclusions, too many want to write her off, too many maybe just want to find something, anything, wrong with Rachel, too many expect too much.
:faint:
Robert Goren
03-16-2010, 06:01 PM
Say what you want, but there is a reason she not going to Oaklawn.
joanied
03-16-2010, 06:12 PM
Say what you want, but there is a reason she not going to Oaklawn.
Care to share??
Kimsus
03-16-2010, 06:25 PM
I hope I am not twisting the column's intent, or seeing only want I want to see, but, to me it seems the author is stating there is a valid question about why Rachel would not be ready, based on the connections anticipations, intents and comments after the race.
My interpretation was he was making an opinion that could be argued for both sides, "she wasn't herself but this was a prep"..."she was declared coming out of the prep healthy, looking and acting great" but a hour later Jackson said they are passing on the AB. As I said it was an Op Ed piece that created discussion. I don't think he knows exactly what is going on, until we see Rachel again we won't, and if she never races again, we know she had 1 great year of racing.
PaceAdvantage
03-17-2010, 01:03 AM
I know this thought doesn't dare enter the minds of the Zenyatta fans, but what if Zardana beats Zenyatta...stranger things have happened...and we all know how tough it can be to get win #16.
Imagine that...a relative unknown on the US Dirt comes along and beats the best two around.
Zardana has a little more tactical speed than Zenyatta (hell, I probably have more tactical speed than Zenyatta), so she will get the jump...it could prove very interesting...
johnhannibalsmith
03-17-2010, 01:11 AM
I know this thought doesn't dare enter the minds of the Zenyatta fans, but what if Zardana beats Zenyatta...stranger things have happened...and we all know how tough it can be to get win #16.
Imagine that...a relative unknown on the US Dirt comes along and beats the best two around.
Zardana has a little more tactical speed than Zenyatta (hell, I probably have more tactical speed than Zenyatta), so she will get the jump...it could prove very interesting...
I'll give you the exact scenario - in a bizzaro world type development, it will actually ALL be Smith's fault.
Grits
03-17-2010, 01:23 AM
I know this thought doesn't dare enter the minds of the Zenyatta fans, but what if Zardana beats Zenyatta...stranger things have happened...and we all know how tough it can be to get win #16.
Imagine that...a relative unknown on the US Dirt comes along and beats the best two around.
Zardana has a little more tactical speed than Zenyatta (hell, I probably have more tactical speed than Zenyatta), so she will get the jump...it could prove very interesting...
You say this well. I said the same, it entered my mind early, on page 3 of the thread, but what I said wasn't phrased half as well.
Good Luck, Mr.Zetcher. Good Luck, Mr.Moss.:)
Kimsus
03-17-2010, 09:32 AM
I know this thought doesn't dare enter the minds of the Zenyatta fans, but what if Zardana beats Zenyatta...stranger things have happened...and we all know how tough it can be to get win #16.
Imagine that...a relative unknown on the US Dirt comes along and beats the best two around.
Zardana has a little more tactical speed than Zenyatta (hell, I probably have more tactical speed than Zenyatta), so she will get the jump...it could prove very interesting...
You can count me as one of the Zenyatta fans that would like to see her face Zardana in the Apple Blossom, win or lose. I am quite realistic that having her in the field would probably lesson Zenyatta's chances of maintaining her consecutive win/unbeaten streak. However it would be a healthy change to see these connections or connections in general choose not to avoid horses or races to pad their resume, it is Arnold Zetcher's decision and from what I read Mr. Zetcher is a sportsman. The ball's in his court. I hope he says yay.
joanied
03-17-2010, 03:19 PM
IMHO...Zardana will go...but, IMO, although it'll make a better race, I think Zenyatta will beat her...I beleive Zenyatta will get #16 :)
Kind of tough one for Sherriff's:faint:
andymays
03-17-2010, 05:15 PM
Lenny and Steve discuss the Jess Jackson, Rachel Alexandra, Zenyatta, and the latest Kentucky Derby preps.
http://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-racing/videos/watch/FA8CBCB2-8A23-4ECB-940E-17C3C77EF09A
Stillriledup
03-17-2010, 05:18 PM
You can count me as one of the Zenyatta fans that would like to see her face Zardana in the Apple Blossom, win or lose. I am quite realistic that having her in the field would probably lesson Zenyatta's chances of maintaining her consecutive win/unbeaten streak. However it would be a healthy change to see these connections or connections in general choose not to avoid horses or races to pad their resume, it is Arnold Zetcher's decision and from what I read Mr. Zetcher is a sportsman. The ball's in his court. I hope he says yay.
Its a silly decision for Zetcher to race against Zenyatta, why do that when you can cherry pick easier spots.
breezing
03-17-2010, 05:53 PM
Its a silly decision for Zetcher to race against Zenyatta, why do that when you can cherry pick easier spots.
because when the competition doesn't show up a lot of people on these boards get all pissy and start spouting their "who has she beaten?" crap. zenyatta will race on dirt this year, i look forward to seeing who has the cajones to take her on because she's in a lot of owner's/trainer's heads and they have in the past, and they are now, taking the path of least resistance.
joanied
03-17-2010, 06:56 PM
Lenny and Steve discuss the Jess Jackson, Rachel Alexandra, Zenyatta, and the latest Kentucky Derby preps.
http://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-racing/videos/watch/FA8CBCB2-8A23-4ECB-940E-17C3C77EF09A
Thanks, andy...I swear, this Apple Blossom thing is one of the strangest stories for racing in a long time...
I do know one thing...it's time for Jackson to say something worthwhile to the racing public...time for him to explain himself with more than the little he's said.
I guess he watched Zenyatta's prep race...and it gave him a migrain :eek:
bisket
03-17-2010, 08:41 PM
because when the competition doesn't show up a lot of people on these boards get all pissy and start spouting their "who has she beaten?" crap. zenyatta will race on dirt this year, i look forward to seeing who has the cajones to take her on because she's in a lot of owner's/trainer's heads and they have in the past, and they are now, taking the path of least resistance.
the ducking and dodging has already started. everybody will be saying, "who has she beaten" in a few months.
Grits
03-17-2010, 10:17 PM
they have in the past, and they are now, taking the path of least resistance.
I couldn't agree with you more on Zenyatta's trainer and owners. They certainly have taken the path of least resistance, and for her entire racing career!! Its unreal!
Now, the poor mare has to board an aircraft to Arkansas in a few days. Bet she's so nervous, she'll need oxygen dropdown, overhead. They'll have to keep a hood on her from the time they load her for the van ride to LAX 'til they walk her into her stall at Oaklawn.
Gotta be prepared for all kinds of problems shipping when you keep your mare's big butt parked at the same track her entire racing career. Been a long time since those two prior flights, that one to run at Oaklawn, and that one to scratch at Churchill.
Oh yeah, almost forgot
.
.
.
.
Good luck Mr.Zetcher.;)
Stillriledup
03-18-2010, 12:45 AM
because when the competition doesn't show up a lot of people on these boards get all pissy and start spouting their "who has she beaten?" crap. zenyatta will race on dirt this year, i look forward to seeing who has the cajones to take her on because she's in a lot of owner's/trainer's heads and they have in the past, and they are now, taking the path of least resistance.
This stuff about people on the boards is the least of concern to owners of expensive racehorses. Owners are looking to make money, not get their head kicked in by much better competition.
breezing
03-18-2010, 01:19 AM
SRU - i'm not entirely sure why i quoted you :blush: i had a couple of windows open and i'm fairly certain that my response was to something in another thread :blush: :blush: :blush: i shall blame the time change :)
OntheRail
03-18-2010, 03:13 AM
Thanks, andy...I swear, this Apple Blossom thing is one of the strangest stories for racing in a long time...
I do know one thing...it's time for Jackson to say something worthwhile to the racing public...time for him to explain himself with more than the little he's said.
I guess he watched Zenyatta's prep race...and it gave him a migrain :eek:
Truthfully I think it's a thumb in Sheriffs eye more then anything else. The fact that he had rushed RA along and the minute they are in NO at FG for the prep race. He pops up with Zardana nothing against her. I just think he got a tad pissed and said frigit... the AB was not really on our card from the start. I mean it's not like JJ need the cash same from Moss. But 10% of a mill or two compare to a couple of hundred grand is quite a drop in Sherriffs net wroth. :eek:
Nikki1997
03-18-2010, 10:02 AM
LOL. The AB was on Z's schedule in January, before the purse changed to $5,000,000.00. Someone may have a thumb in their eye, but it's not JS.
Kimsus
03-18-2010, 10:18 AM
I'm almost talked out of this, but I have to say it doesn't matter if Zenyatta was galloping prior to her annoucement to race in 2010, this has nothing to do with Rachel's schedule or readiness. It's amazing reading these threads why Rachel and her connections are so consumed by what Zenyatta does, what the fcuk does it matter with her readiness? Anyway I'm moving on to the Apple Blossom with or without her, atleast we have Zenyatta racing in a new enviroment, this should be a start to satisfy one of things that bothered her naysayers last year. She will be racing on dirt and shipping.
FenceBored
03-18-2010, 10:29 AM
I'm almost talked out of this, but I have to say it doesn't matter if Zenyatta was galloping prior to her annoucement to race in 2010, this has nothing to do with Rachel's schedule or readiness. It's amazing reading these threads why Rachel and her connections are so consumed by what Zenyatta does, what the fcuk does it matter with her readiness? Anyway I'm moving on to the Apple Blossom with or without her, atleast we have Zenyatta racing in a new enviroment, this should be a start to satisfy one of things that bothered her naysayers last year. She will be racing on dirt and shipping.
Who said it did? The only reason it gets brought up is Zen backers saying "Zenyatta's not having trouble being ready." You know, I think there's even a thread with a very similar name. But that means they are inserting Zenyatta's training schedule into the discussion, not Rachel backers.
Kimsus
03-18-2010, 10:43 AM
Who said it did? The only reason it gets brought up is Zen backers saying "Zenyatta's not having trouble being ready." You know, I think there's even a thread with a very similar name. But that means they are inserting Zenyatta's training schedule into the discussion, not Rachel backers.
It is brought up and you probably know the reason, regardless if she is to race again, it will be interesting which spot JJ and SA choose for her. Listening to the various racing shows even they are mystified in the actions of Jackson.
FenceBored
03-18-2010, 11:51 AM
It is brought up and you probably know the reason, regardless if she is to race again, it will be interesting which spot JJ and SA choose for her. Listening to the various racing shows even they are mystified in the actions of Jackson.
Could you try to post in coherent sentences next time? :confused:
Kimsus
03-18-2010, 12:06 PM
Could you try to post in coherent sentences next time? :confused:
Do you want a Cliffnotes version also? :lol:
FenceBored
03-18-2010, 12:10 PM
Do you want a Cliffnotes version also? :lol:
No, just something that actually makes sense.
The following sentence (the first of the post I responded to) is absolutely nonsensical.
"It is brought up and you probably know the reason, regardless if she is to race again, it will be interesting which spot JJ and SA choose for her."
What does that even mean?
Kimsus
03-18-2010, 12:20 PM
No, just something that actually makes sense.
The following sentence (the first of the post I responded to) is absolutely nonsensical.
"It is brought up and you probably know the reason, regardless if she is to race again, it will be interesting which spot JJ and SA choose for her."
What does that even mean?
1st part - I trust you read the threads here, or atleast I hope you do. If you do you would not ask...
2nd part - Now that we got a prep out of the way, it will be interesting what type of race Rachel will appear in next. Ie. Gr.1, Gr.2, Gr.3, Asmussen is a guy that strikes when the horse is good, obviously if they choose a tough race, it would be a clue to she is doing fine...if they throw her into another prep...it's your guess.
FenceBored
03-18-2010, 12:38 PM
1st part - I trust you read the threads here, or atleast I hope you do. If you do you would not ask...
2nd part - Now that we got a prep out of the way, it will be interesting what type of race Rachel will appear in next. Ie. Gr.1, Gr.2, Gr.3, Asmussen is a guy that strikes when the horse is good, obviously if they choose a tough race, it would be a clue to she is doing fine...if they throw her into another prep...it's your guess.
See, that wasn't so hard, was it?
OntheRail
03-18-2010, 12:40 PM
LOL. The AB was on Z's schedule in January, before the purse changed to $5,000,000.00. Someone may have a thumb in their eye, but it's not JS.
That's very true for Zennie... but Rachel was not pointed toward it. Till the 5 mil. and the public yak yak and all. So then Jackson tried to rush her to make up for lost training time. So I hope that clears up the earlier post for you. Think about that HUGH purse drop... gotta hurt JS in the wallet. ;)
That's a thumb in the eye. :lol:
joanied
03-18-2010, 01:07 PM
When it comes to Zenyatta, I doubt Sherriff's worries about how much $$ he'll make off a race...he just wants to run her in whatever spot seems the best...and, IMO, nothin' wrong with that...I think, for Sherriff's...Zenyatta is priceless:)
PaceAdvantage
03-18-2010, 06:59 PM
what the fcuk does it matter with her readiness?Nice! :ThmbUp:
andymays
04-30-2010, 02:47 PM
Old Thread
They have to retire her now. Empty in the stretch with a soft trip.
She gave it all last year and she deserves a happy life. :ThmbUp:
Show Me the Wire
04-30-2010, 02:54 PM
Old Thread
They have to retire her now. Empty in the stretch with a soft trip.
She gave it all last year and she deserves a happy life. :ThmbUp:
My sentiments too.
I thought she would really be back today. Her works were praised by many at the track......c'est live!
WinterTriangle
04-30-2010, 08:30 PM
Steve A after the race....
"We'll have to be cautious. We want to do what's right for the mare."
I would have liked to ask him a few questions right after he said that.
She gave it all last year and she deserves a happy life
She also deserved a vacation off the backside, but she didn't get that either.
There are trainers who understand that a horse is more than physical self. That they need real relaxation, they need time to just be horses.
It's why they have nature trails at the Japanese training centers. ( Unless you think they put them there for the exercise riders to enjoy trail rides after work. :D )
don't get the 7 month layoff but still stabled. I'm not a trainer, but is this typical?
Depends on *who* you're talking about. The outfits that that have the best, or the barely-getting-by trainer at Penn National? The ones I know who have won stakes races for classy connections, get nice long layoffs, in pastures.
PaceAdvantage
04-30-2010, 08:35 PM
My sentiments too.I couldn't disagree with you two (you and andy) any more over this kind of thinking.
Why wouldn't the more rational and objective desire be to see how she goes once or twice more?
Check out her first two starts of 2009. In comparison to her later races, they were slow. (Yeah, yeah, I know...speed means nothing). Well, I have news for you. Winning by 20 lengths doesn't mean everything either.
Show Me the Wire
04-30-2010, 08:37 PM
I couldn't disagree with you two (you and andy) any more over this kind of thinking.
Why wouldn't the more rational and objective desire be to see how she goes once or twice more?
Check out her first two starts of 2009. In comparison to her later races, they were slow. (Yeah, yeah, I know...speed means nothing). Well, I have news for you. Winning by 20 lengths doesn't mean everything either.
Different trainers.
DeanT
04-30-2010, 08:38 PM
Different trainers.
Bingo.
PaceAdvantage
04-30-2010, 08:42 PM
So horses as individuals do not sometimes exhibit patterns when coming off of layoffs? Really? Hmmm...
andymays
04-30-2010, 08:52 PM
Some horses are great for one race.
Some are great for two.
Some are great for more.
Rachel was great in 2009 for how many? Not bad in my book. :ThmbUp:
Rock on Rachel..............You gave us a thrill. :ThmbUp:
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