African Bush.

[Suff]

GWB said some pretty strong things in Senegal Today. The strongest of which was probably:

"The greatest Migrant Movement in Human History was also the Greatest Crime in Human History.

Very far from that....But consider the Republicans "new" found interest in Africa. Remember. Bush Talked exstensively in his State of the Union, about Africa. And caught alot of Americans by surprise.


This is what I Say.

You know that 3 Billion Dollars we Gave Pakistan last week? Well they're just turning around and buying weapons systems from Raytheon, Lockheed, Gener dynamics et al...

Its corporate welfare.... You and I are paying for Pakistans new Patriot Missile system. But Raytheon makes a very sweet coin.


NOw Africa..... Agriculture.

Bush will give All 5 of these Africans Nations a couple Billiion to develop the land.

But the Major US food Growers already have BIG Deals in place with these Govts.

The Govt gets the Money. They turn around and BUY a few Billion worth of JOHN DEERE and GM Farm equipement. They give it to the LAND MANAGERS (US Growers),, and away they go.

Everybody is in for a piece. No one spent a DIME besides the US TAXPAYER. HUGE CORPORATE WELFARE...... Thats what the WHOLE INTEREST IS ABOUT.....and,,,,and this is a BIG AND

Bio-food. US Food Growers want to Genetically alter food, They are having a hard time getting it accepted world wide. So they are going to AFRICA where there is no laws or...

EPA
USDA
Surgeon General
OSHA

So they are free to go wild testing different genetically altered food on the HUNGRIEST POPULATION IN THEWORLD.


Heres a Direct Quote from a company that neeed to DUMP it's BIO-testing to get FTC approval. So they move it over to Africa.


Syngenta will offer a broad portfolio of established and recently launched product brands in crop protection and seeds and strong products in the new and emerging professional products sector. In order to gain merger approval from the Federal Trade Commission, the two companies have completed sales of their trifloxystrobin and acetochlor product lines

The created a shill and moved the operation to Africa.


With out fear of being sued if 1/2 a Village gets cancer.


I have real doubts that the Republican Party is REALLY interested in Slavery and righting that wrong. I have real doubts that president BUSH has the AFRICAN PEOPLE's best interest as his first priority.

I think his Priorities run more like this

Raytheon
Lockheed
General Motors
Dole Foods
American Corn Growers Assoc

[BillW]

Originally posted by Sufferindowns


I think his Priorities run more like this

Raytheon
Lockheed
General Motors
Dole Foods
American Corn Growers Assoc

Suff,

I hope GWB HAS the US interest as his primary focus, that's his job.

As an exercise, make a list the equivalent African Companies that should be benefiting instead of the list above. What are the alternatives? It's easy to accuse him of supporting American business, but what is the alternative, should he drive them out of business?

Re. the new found interest: Africa is a breeding ground for the AIDS epidemic and a ripe target for terrorist infestation (now that Afghanistan no longer offers their hospitality). It's been ignored for too long. This IS self-defense and in our interest. No one else is going to take care of us, unless we change our name to France or something similar.

Bill

[Suff]

no doubt they need it. Why am I paying for it?

If a company wants to do business there. Have them buy the land , spend the money developing the land and buy all the farming equipment.

If USA gives Senegal 1 BIL...and they spend it all in the USA its Corporate welfare. No one has any skin in the game except the Taxpayer.

[BillW]

Originally posted by Sufferindowns
no doubt they need it. Why am I paying for it?

If a company wants to do business there. Have them buy the land , spend the money developing the land and buy all the farming equipment.

If USA gives Senegal 1 BIL...and they spend it all in the USA its Corporate welfare. No one has any skin in the game except the Taxpayer.


Private Business is not going to volunteer to help other countries at their own risk without the potential of making a profit commesurate with the effort involved.
Unfortunately, the only alternative is to give money directly to the country involved (I would find it even less tasteful to be subsidizing a foreign company). Then it would likely be pocketed by the dictator (ala Hussein) and be even less efficient.

I'm not a big fan of giving money away either (here or abroad!), but unfortunately some has to be spent (I wished to hell those people could learn to take care of themselves! Our success as a country is not all luck, a lot of us work(ed)/fought our asses off for this, as I don't have to remind you)

To the extent that Africa can be made unliveable for the terror networks and disease can be at least controlled, it is money well spent. What that level of spending is? I'd rather be speculating on the chances of a 2 YO at Belmont in a 6f MSW. I don't have a clue as to what is excessive. :confused:

Bill

[Show Me the Wire]

Suff:

Good post about your observations and use of specific detail to question President Bush's motivation to help Africa. I wish ljb and Amazin would learn from you how to frame a position and discussion. Your post was constructive, to the point and elicited well constrructed and thought out replies.

Regards,
Show Me the Wire

Perception is reality

[gino]

suffer man-
don't worry as much about corporate welfare...out of every million we send to any of these yahoos, only about $100,000 comes back to The Corp., the other 900 G's goes directly into the Prime Crook of Imperial Bananastand's Swiss( or wherever) bank account...i hope that if we ever pay off on the ransom for saddam that W and the boys are planning to use some of that long green the army recovered in baghdad...
am i dreamin'?
gino

[Tom]

I say GWB is campaigning in Africa - his SOLE purpose for going there is to get the balck vote in the next election.
We are sending how many billions to figth aids in Africa?
Wasted money. NO FOREIGN AID to ANYONE. PERIOD.
Let the rest the world learn to handle their own problems.
Not with my money. Aids research has already found a cure - it is called prevention. Why look for a cure for what can be prevented for free?
Bad move, George. Bad move.

[ljb]

Excellent post, finally someone can say something about Bush's motivation and get a positive response from the right side. (except Tom)

[ljb]

I have posted well constructed notes. With facts included.. The right wingers just jump in and start there spin/attack.

[Tom]

Originally posted by ljb
Excellent post, finally someone can say something about Bush's motivation and get a positive response from the right side. (except Tom)

I thought my post refelcted my disagreement with W on this one?
You, BLT, I don't blindly follow and believe anybody-when I don't agree, I don't agree and I say so. But when I do agree, the same hold true. I agree with him on Iraq, but I won't High-five hom over it - leaves my groin exposed! :rolleyes:

[ljb]

As I said
"get a positive response from the right side (except Tom)."
Just pointing out that you were negative on this thread.
I expected most all the rightys to respond negatively as the original note does not put Bush in very good light.

[Tom]

Sorry. I mis-read your post.
Hey! We agree on something!?
I'm betting longshots Friday...something cosmic is happening:rolleyes:

[Suff]

Originally posted by Tom
I say GWB is campaigning in Africa - his SOLE purpose for going there is to get the balck vote in the next election.
Bad move, George. Bad move.

Tom... The few black people I have talked to this week all had the same intial reaction to Bush's Africa Trip.


"Beware of a White Man Bearing Gifts"

[Suff]

Tom...

I'm not against GWB...but there's another area you and I probably will agree on that i think was a big mistake.

I was a big Newt Gingrich supporter mainly due to his "Smaller Govt" Mantra.

I beleive the Govt should be constantly hacking off big sections to private industry or merge with other depts.


After 9/11/01

When GWB Federalized 40,000 people standing around x-ray machines in every Airport in the Country.

Then,,the system we have in place isn't good enough. we need to create a whole NEW Dept and even ADD a cabinet secy. And add a few thousand employees to staff that New Dept.

Additionally the extra cost and HIGH security risk of merging the "Homeland security agency" in with the FBI, CIA, NSA, Armed Forces and Intelligence community. Thats gonna run in the Billions...Just to merge the informatiom....

Hey... i don;t have his Job... I'm back seat driving I Know. But it seems to me he leveraged the 9-11 tradegy to GROW Govt. His GOVT. Why does a bigger Govt make me safer? A bigger Army Maybe. a bigger Govt?

whats our Goal? Out hire the Terrorists?


Plus,, this week he's after the working mans overtime,,,

Starting to think the Mans gotta go.

[Tom]

Big governemtent is bad governemnt.
The current airport securitt system is a total joke! It is big governemtn at it's worst. It is not protecting anyone from anything. If the current security system were in place on 9-11-01, the death pilots would STILL get on board with no problems.
Unless they, like you an me, got fed up with the nonsense and decided to drive!
If you remember, my support for GWB was essentially "He's not All Gore (Forrest Gump)."
But I see no viable democrates on the horizon, and what is the chance a republican will beat him in the primaries?
Our only hope is to vote agains ALL incumbents at every level and hope to get in enough people not already bought and paid for. Problem there is that in order to get to the point of being on a ballot, you have to already be bought and paid for.
Our money to combat terro would better be spent on missles, death ray (star wars technolohy) developement, special forces development, assasination squadsm, etc. You can't fight terrorists by encampment. You need to go find them and destroy them. Borders are irrelevant in today's world.

[Lefty]

Hold it, airport security was Federalized because of the outcry from Daschle and the rest of the Demos, cause they wanted their union workers in there. You guys with absolutely no memory want to lay everything on GWB.
If GWB didn't go to Africa the outcry from Daschle, all the Demos, rest of you leftists and Jesse Jackson Al Sharpton and the rest of the "race hustlers" that GWB cared not for Africa's plight because they were BLACK. The man can't win with you guys and the leftist media and that's precisely why right wing radio has become so popular. Gettin some truth out there.

[Suff]

Tom Daschle federalized 40,000 hourly workers?

Union? GWB made it LAW that due to National Security Interests, The employees Can't unionize. ( a violation of thier Constitutional rights) and they cannot strike. They are subject to arrest if they attempt either.

If i agreed that he "gave" Tom dashle the right to Federalize 40,000 employees.... does that make him any less responsiable as The president. the buck stops there.

he did everything willingly , with executive order. The House and Senate mighta played thier games with the Legislation.. but he Proposed it. Not Tom Dashle.

I'm not left or right me .... I'm just laying it out here. Don't side me... I'm not arguing a position. .

I've seen you guys play. You guys play rough. I'm not up for Political debate at this Point. I'm liable to get hurt.

[Lefty]

Sufferin, I'm most confident you won't get hurt. I didn't say Daschle federalized the workers but he led the outcry! He and the dems made it seem, and they get all the help from the leftwing media they want, that Bush didn't really have homeland security at heart if he didn't do it. If you remember this man had a helluva lot on his "plate" and still does that he succumbed to that pressure. Daschle and the rest absolutely said if the workers were federalized that everything would be all better.
You can blame GWB if you want, sure seems the poular thing to do right now, but if you're honest you MUST attach some blame to all those "lying ass" democrats who forced the issue with everything they had.

[JustRalph]

The Dems did cry for the Federalized over haul and administration of the Airports. They wanted it modeled after Israel. But there were just as many Repubs that jumped on the bandwagon. Bush went along. You are right Suff, it resulted in bigger government and it is a waste. see below:

http://www.msnbc.com/news/937704.asp

The Law that allows the government from keeping certain groups from organizing or striking etc has been upheld in the interest of public safety by several courts. In several states police and fire are outlawed from strikes. Although they can unionize. I agree with Suff, it is a violation of civil rights. It causes no readily apparent overt harm but is eventually harmful to all including the communities in which they serve. Take it from one who served on the labor council for a police department.