Arrivederci MASTER HANDICAPPER

[turfbar]

I am surprised there has been no mention of the demise of the Master Handicapper(TMH) data files. Me personally I am pissed. I use those files every racing day. I have never publicly bashed M.Pizzolla but today I do.

I'm not sure how many other people use this software but it is remakable and useful even if it is 15 years old. I figured I have spent over 6k on files over the years and now MP is going to throw it out because it isn't cost effective.

He e-mailed us with the news of the demise of TMH with a sales pitch on his "new" seminar DVD's and a new delivery system WOW ,now here is my point I ve never had a problem with the old delivery system and like I said i have been a customer for 15 years.Here is my point he is trying to sell new instead of taking care of the old. Why didn't he say that when he was hawking TMH the greatest software yet that in 15 years he wouldn't support it when he was tired of it(original cost of software $1500). i HAVE ACTUALLY BOUGHT all his merchandise, and now he wants to wash his hands of it.

Reminds me of your old car that you love and it needs repair and the sales men says you need a new car that one is old and for you to buy a new one.
Where is the loyalty?

There is more here than I want to get into but at least I want to bring it to attention, be careful what you buy from this guy because........

Turfbar

[Sly7449]

Turfbar,


Re read the reasons why PT1 is going away. In the Newsletter he clearly indicates that the data Provider has gone out of bussiness and to Convert it would Cost a 1/4 Million. He went ahead and stated that the PT2 Data would be More Reliable. Also added that the User pool for TMH is Few.

A few Programmers out there are very hesitant in keeping the Old Technology functioning and any request for Upgrade/Enhancement could fall into the Custom Dept which could be costly. They will be willing to and maybe if you contact MP he may be able to assist you if enough User are willing to split the cost.

Use the profits obtained in the interim period and have that support your transition.

Sly

[GameTheory]

Are they binary files or text files? If they are the latter, you could probably convert DRF or BRIS files unless they've got secret validation schemes or something in 'em...

[Dave Schwartz]

Sly,

Post Time Daily is going out of business?


Dave

[Light]

i HAVE ACTUALLY BOUGHT all his merchandise



If you've have all his programs,why are you still interested in what he calls a "stone age" program in his newsletter. Do you find tmh better than all his more recent programs?

[Sly7449]

"What that means is that Post Time Daily 1 will no longer be supported, nor will the Master Handicapper program. (Every other piece of PTS software, Post Time Daily 2, The Master Magician, Value Tech, Essential, Sharper, etc. and of course Black Magic, is fine). "

[Tom]

Did Handicapping Magic use BRIS files?

[CBedo]

In the Newsletter he clearly indicates that the data Provider has gone out of bussiness and to Convert it would Cost a 1/4 Million. Tell him I'd do it for 125k! lol

[Sly7449]

Turfbar,


Are you saying that TMH in your opinion is superior to BLAM?

Based on your thread a year ago, you sounded that you were pleased with it, if I read your comments correctly:

Quote:turfbar (http://www.paceadvantage.com/forum/member.php?u=1921) vbmenu_register("postmenu_696375", true);
Registered User

Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 314
vCash: 400


BLAM
I have set my level at very aggressive , the 9 dvds that came with the program
are well intended for instructional basis , but I don't review them for helpful facts .I love BLAM but don't belong to the wizards forum anymore for numerous reasons ,for one you can't raise anything in that forum that isn't positive or contrary to some of the teachings .



Turfbar

http://www.paceadvantage.com/forum/showthread.php?t=58383

Could you help us understand the annual review.

Confused.

Sly

[turfbar]

Maybe I should have given a 2 year review ,After making those statements and Blam did open my eyes on what the "secret sauce" is ,within the year working with both softwares comparing and contrasting the 2 and what they have in common,inho,without a doubt TMH is superior.

Purchasing Blam I thought ,because of the hype ,the mixing of bothTMH and HM
was going to be superior ,again imo,was not,and I was grateful I still had TMH to use. I think if you held a poll of both users ,it would be close.

Tmh has some componets BLAM does not deliver.

I would also like to say that thru the years I had lots of data files that I downloaded and saved well as far back as 2005 and I did a lot of research using
both Blam and TMH.

Another point and I had this dicussion on another board ,they have been planning the extinction of these files for some time,the rumor of no more TMH files as been around for some time, so MP explanation of 1/4 million dollars
is hard for me to swallow.

Turfbar

[shane]

Is there another software that computes TPR other than a feet/second format? If not it looks like putting the pp's in by hand is in my future.
I've used TMH since the spring of '94 and was more than satisfied. I had the trial with BLAM until the ADW's in Ohio stopped taking bets. It's my opinion the TMH portion without the adjustment feature is worthless except for pace scenarios.
It's always been about the dollar with MP. The original format was type the calls in. Then BRIS furnished the pp's on the old 1200 baud modems over the phone. When they wouldn't give him a cut he moved on to DRF. When the same thing happened he had Eric write the pp software and started PTD buying directly from Equibase.
That's the end of PTD for me. When I get tired of typing arrivederci TMH.

[Light]

Tmh has some componets BLAM does not deliver.


Like what?

[shane]

The ability to adjust times from track to track.
Use variants-don't use variants.
The user can type in the Beyers for the last 3 races and the software creates an odds comparison that easily identifies overlays. The user can also change the pace scenario to favor any segment of the race.
You can model what's winning.
You can keep a track profile.
You can track your ROI.
These are most of the differences and why MP is not the same person he was when Eric L was alive.

[Wickel]

Tell him I'd do it for 125k! lol

Go for it!!

I'm not a techie by no means--not even closes. So my question is: Why can't THM data files be converted to BRIS? One response on this thread said MP was using BRIS before!

[QuarterCrack]

The ability to adjust times from track to track.
Use variants-don't use variants.
The user can type in the Beyers for the last 3 races and the software creates an odds comparison that easily identifies overlays. The user can also change the pace scenario to favor any segment of the race.
You can model what's winning.
You can keep a track profile.
You can track your ROI.
These are most of the differences and why MP is not the same person he was when Eric L was alive.
These are in BLAM.

[GameTheory]

Go for it!!

I'm not a techie by no means--not even closes. So my question is: Why can't THM data files be converted to BRIS? One response on this thread said MP was using BRIS before!BRIS (or DRF) to THM, I think you mean.

If they are in text or csv format, they probably can. Now there are a few tricks they might have implemented to prevent this from working, and specs of the current data file would surely be helpful, but it could be done. I used to create ITS format result data files from my old chart parser to covert Equibase charts to data files that apparently worked with some of their programs.

The 250k comment makes no sense no matter what the format.

[shane]

Pray tell where in BLAM you can adjust Master pace ratings between tracks

[Houndog]

The ability to adjust times from track to track.
Use variants-don't use variants.
The user can type in the Beyers for the last 3 races and the software creates an odds comparison that easily identifies overlays. The user can also change the pace scenario to favor any segment of the race.
You can model what's winning.
You can keep a track profile.
You can track your ROI.
These are most of the differences and why MP is not the same person he was when Eric L was alive.

Shane I am not familiar with the version that the user can enter Beyer numbers. Perhaps I have looked at a different version than the one you are using.

[takeout]

Where is the loyalty?Good question.

[shane]

Hounddog,

In mine under edit there's a morning line format. If you don't use Beyers it automatically enters the speed ratings. You then view the comparison morning line versus the Beyers output under Oddsmaker. It's been in all editions since Sept. 1995.
Shane

[QuarterCrack]

Pray tell where in BLAM you can adjust Master pace ratings between tracks

You can't manually adjust the MP ratings.

[Houndog]

Hounddog,

In mine under edit there's a morning line format. If you don't use Beyers it automatically enters the speed ratings. You then view the comparison morning line versus the Beyers output under Oddsmaker. It's been in all editions since Sept. 1995.
Shane

Shane I see it now since you told me where to look. Thanks.

[lsosa54]

Is there another software that computes TPR other than a feet/second format?

I believe Ted Craven's RDSS computes TPR ratings. RDDS has EPR LPR and CPR, which I think was Doc Sartin's updated calculation for TPR.

[Tom]

Dick Schmidt might know of a program. He used to have one, not sure if he still supports it. I think Synergism might have TPR numbers....check the website.

[fast4522]

Dick Schmidt's book on TPR's was put together with such mastery I could not recommend any other on the subject. Unlike some books with fuzzy charts and pp's and references hard to follow, these gents actually make it a pleasure right from the source. Also I feel there is a depth using the numbers and this book that one may not fully get any place else. My only regret is I did not read and use it sooner.

[cratman]

A believe I recall a post years ago in which the poster stated he was encouraged by Mr. Pizzolla to exchange his TMH program that used BRIS downloads for one that used Post Time Daily.
If TMH software exists that Mr. Pizzolla has that uses another download, it seem it could be appropriate for him to provide those who purchased TMH from him with a copy of that program.

[fast4522]

cratman,
Do not expect that, the number one fact is this is a business. The number two fact is MP studied Howard Sartin well, who was by definition a fraud because he never earned a doctoral degree excused by the fact all was fair under the big tent. Even still Howard Sartin managed to change the appearance of programs that were the same program and sell it to you again. Being a business its common for programs to expire for various reasons, it is just bad business to compete against your current product. I do not expect you or anyone to agree with all or even part of what I am saying. One guy professed to be a Doctor and the other a Magician, under the big tent all is fair.

[Donnie]

I don't use nor do I have any working knowledge of any of the programs Michael sells, but is this thread stating that this program being sold on Ebay is in effect then, dead in the water?

http://cgi.ebay.com/Handicapping-Magic-Mega-Seminar-In-A-Box_W0QQitemZ320498362405QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUS_Sol o_Sports_Fan_Shop?hash=item4a9f30e825

I am not affliated with the seller, just wondering if the seller knows that it will no longer be operational....?

[Tom]

Donnie......Shhhhhhhhhh!;)

[shane]

Only programs that use PTD1 files are affected. To my knowledge these are TEH and TMH.
shane

[Dave Schwartz]

Even still Howard Sartin managed to change the appearance of programs that were the same program and sell it to you again.

Fast,

While I WON'T speak to your character assassination of Dr. Sartin, I can certainly address the above quote.

First, most of Sartin's programs were NOT the same program. They were quite different from one to the next. They were, of course, all "pace" programs, but they typically attacked pace from a different standpoint.


As for Howard Sartin being a fraud... well, I can tell you that he really was an original thinker who brought pace handicapping out of the dark ages. I can also tell you that using his principles caused me to win for the first time in my life.

Was there a lot of smoke and mirrors? Sure. But the ideas were genuine.

Would I choose to run my business the way he ran his? Certainly not.


All this is just my opinion.


Regards,
Dave Schwartz

[fast4522]

Dave,
Character assassination is not the intent, he did provide the address that others were not ready to. He also took a collection of ideas and promote them to the point of national attention. His adaption of EPR & LPR are just multipliers of EP & LP, but underneath they are the same thing. I view the members of Perco, some still around and kicking as major contributors to what he was selling. I find all of their work equal to his, and certainly not less than. I do find the statement about competing with your own product a bad business practice to be 100% valid, and was directly connecting the Magician to the Doctor to say why MP would never provide such a program. Personally I would advise against buying a program that used data from a single source. I do not care about how well someone boasts about the quality of the data. On a different thread its easy to see just how good a program is doing with inexpensive data geared to the weekend type user. I equate MP, HS, and yourself as shrewd businessmen by nature as a need to survive.

[Wickel]

Donnie......Shhhhhhhhhh!;)

:lol::lol::lol:

[Dave Schwartz]

Character assassination is not the intent, he did provide the address that others were not ready to. He also took a collection of ideas and promote them to the point of national attention. His adaption of EPR & LPR are just multipliers of EP & LP, but underneath they are the same thing. I view the members of Perco, some still around and kicking as major contributors to what he was selling. I find all of their work equal to his, and certainly not less than. I do find the statement about competing with your own product a bad business practice to be 100% valid, and was directly connecting the Magician to the Doctor to say why MP would never provide such a program. Personally I would advise against buying a program that used data from a single source. I do not care about how well someone boasts about the quality of the data. On a different thread its easy to see just how good a program is doing with inexpensive data geared to the weekend type user. I equate MP, HS, and yourself as shrewd businessmen by nature as a need to survive.


His adaption of EPR & LPR are just multipliers of EP & LP, but underneath they are the same thing.

I cannot address that as I have no idea what EPR is, but I can say that while EP can be expressed different ways, it is the application that may be different from one program to the next. As an example, Energy! was certainly far different than Phase II, though they both used "pace" as the platform.

The early Synergism was still a "pace" program - but far superior to the Phase III program.



Personally I would advise against buying a program that used data from a single source.

Unfortunately, that means the programmer will not get paid, which means you will pay substantially more for the software or you will (likely) get crappy software.

Of late Handi & Doug have been doing this open-source thing. Good for them. Perhaps it will thrive forever. But with no "payoff" to the programmer(s) there is a good chance that it will not endure. So, instead of the data source going away, the software dies a quiet death as future development is in question.

I am considering an open-source solution of sorts for my next project. But, as with all open-source projects, I face the big question: How do I monetize it?

Using multiple data sources in this arena adds to the difficulty of any programmer monetizing his efforts.


Regards,
Dave Schwartz

[fast4522]

David,
My posts had nothing to refer to you or your software. My posts content has similar content in it that has been posted on this bbs hundreds of times. I in no way was pointing anything at you, but made reference to two other Marketeers and why the living one would never make a program available to those who own versions from a data provider who is no longer. Your ability to make a living should have nothing to do with dated material, because yours is Regression analysis as a statistical tool in handicapping, to those who believe in regression analysis.

[Dave Schwartz]

Fast,

I was not referring specifically to me. There is no regression in HSH.


Please note that I am not trying to be adversarial.

I see your viewpoints and am very capable of accepting that we see things differently.


Dave

[fast4522]

OK,
When you set up HSH to look at the factor of EP from the last 500 races or the most important points of call for the last 500 races, is this not Regression analysis? A spade is a spade no mater how one prefers to depict it, is it not? Personally how you have set up HSH to do these tasks is quite elegant considering you have every race available to data mine as you do with your data provider.

[Light]

Is there another software that computes TPR other than a feet/second format? If not it looks like putting the pp's in by hand is in my future.


My software has been doing this for the last 10 years. It's homemade and been programmed by a friend so dont ask me how to do it. But i think it can be done in Excel with some macros.

The interesting thing about TPR ratings is they seem to be profitable. At the Aqu inner meet ,2008,the top TPR ranked horse made 20% ROI. For the 2009 meet I changed my PL selection method but the top ranked TPR horse still made 11% ROI.My theory on why it is profitable is because most handicappers simply do not have access to this info.

BTW if you want to generate FPS figs,use "Race Prophet". It's free and did have the 50-1 Dq'd horse at Aqu 3/7/10 4th race on top using FPS.

[Handiman]

TPR rating Can be taken straight from the book 'Pace Makes The Race' so how is that info not available to most handicappers?

Handi:)

[fast4522]

Handiman,
I have done it, but the hard part for me was learning printer control.

[Tom]

TPR rating Can be taken straight from the book 'Pace Makes The Race' so how is that info not available to most handicappers?

Handi:)

It requires work to get the numbers.
That eliminates 98% of the people.

How do you lose weight?
Eat less, exercise more.
So where are all the skinny people?:D

[cratman]

who was by definition a fraud because he never earned a doctoral degree

I can not say whether or not Howard Sartin earned a doctoral degree. However, I do have a degree in psychology, from a prominent university, and have observed a number of PHD's in the area both in academia and subsequently. Howard Sartin was, in my view, the most impressive person in the area of behavioral psychology to whom I have been exposed. In one instance, he provided insights in one particular project that had eluded perhaps the most prominent person in the field both then and now, which insights the prominent person later agreed with

Also, when Trackmaster changed its formula in a way that negatively affected a program he had sold, he replaced the program without changing anything for it. My suggestion is that Mr. Pizzolla consider emulating Howard Sartin in this regard and consider doing the same thing.

[Dick Schmidt]

Ah-hmmm,


Though indeed TPR is in the book "Pace Makes the Race", it is NOT in the public domain. In theory, if you are using TPR in a program without permission, you are violating copyright. I see TPR ratings all over the place, but to date only one person was polite enough to ask before using them (Bob Purdy in Synergism).

We don't really plan to sue anyone, but I just thought I'd mention it.

Dick

"Don't the Bible have some pretty specific things to say about killing?"
"Quite specific. It is, however, somewhat fuzzier on the subject of kneecaps."

[fast4522]

Everything I take from a book or books are for personal use only, I in no way ever plan to sell anything ever. My wife and I are enjoying TPR's and find the statements about them by the authors to be true.

[RichieP]

Also, when Trackmaster changed its formula in a way that negatively affected a program he had sold, he replaced the program without changing anything for it.

Just for clarity it was Ted Craven who programmed the change then he and Bill Varone gave away the Val4 software to those who asked. After Howard passed on he then asked for the princely sum of $100 bucks which he forwarded the entire amount to Howard's widow.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zhBEvPD8DR8&feature=PlayList&p=F5ADE6469AA59E78&index=1&playnext=2&playnext_from=PL

[Dave Schwartz]

Though indeed TPR is in the book "Pace Makes the Race", it is NOT in the public domain. In theory, if you are using TPR in a program without permission, you are violating copyright.

Actually, I must disagree, Dick.

While you can certainly trademark the words "total pace ratings" and you can certainly patent the formula for TPR, you did neither.

Using YOUR specific description verbatim might be considered a copyright violation.

Formulas are not typically copyright-able.


Dave

[Rferguson]

I would say if it would cost 1/4 of a million, then why not just give a cash refund to the small group of survivors that bought the program for $1000.00 15 years ago. Since they have had the rug pulled off from underneath them. I'm sure that wouldn't cost anywhere near that much. Another option would be to give them Black Magic for free. Sounds fair to me.
Ron F

[fast4522]

With some effort you can generate a program that works just as well or even better than the one that sold 15 years ago that accepts a few different data providers (for personal use). To wish someone to undercut profits is like wishing the favorite off the tote board, good luck with that one.

[cratman]

Hi Richie,

I was referring to an earlier instance. For all I know it may have been Ted Craven who helped in that case also.

[Dave Schwartz]

With some effort you can generate a program that works just as well or even better than the one that sold 15 years ago that accepts a few different data providers (for personal use). To wish someone to undercut profits is like wishing the favorite off the tote board, good luck with that one.

Well, you certainly make it sound trivial.

[fast4522]

Dave,
Not at all, I have found this BBS to have a "League of Extraordinary Gentlemen", taking from a movie title to note works such as Alldata and Handifast where such a unique melting pot this BBS has become. This is for most of us a hobby that has a shoestring budgets. For a few its a business, but for the rest of us it is just a little recreational fun.

[Ted Craven]

Though indeed TPR is in the book "Pace Makes the Race", it is NOT in the public domain. In theory, if you are using TPR in a program without permission, you are violating copyright. I see TPR ratings all over the place, but to date only one person was polite enough to ask before using them (Bob Purdy in Synergism).

And RDSS, permission granted by one of the copyright holders of the original edition of Pace Makes the Race (Dr. Howard Sartin).

Ted

[turfbar]

Not
to far in the distant past I put out a question asking for a response,about TMH actually being Jim Bradshaws' The"Match-Up", in a software. I didn't get much of a response, but since that time I am more convinved that it is.


Turfbar

[Tom]

We don't really plan to sue anyone, but I just thought I'd mention it.

Dick



Funny, that comment next to your avatar! :eek: :D

[Handiman]

Dick,

I did not intend to suggest that the info in the book was wide open for all to copy and disseminate. What I was referring to was that Light's statement that TPR ratings were so difficult to find and use for the average capper that it was nearly a waste of time to attempt to use them.

What I meant WAS that anybody who wanted to use them for their own purposes could just buy the book and voila, there they are at their fingertips. Now if you did not mean for people to be able to use them for their own benefit, I find it unusual that you would have made them available in book form.

I in no way suggest infringing on copyright material!

Hope that clears things up for everyone!

Handi:)

[Houndog]

Not
to far in the distant past I put out a question asking for a response,about TMH actually being Jim Bradshaws' The"Match-Up", in a software. I didn't get much of a response, but since that time I am more convinved that it is.


Turfbar


Turfbar, I think Energy! would be closer to Jim Bradshaw's Match-Up in a computer program. Several reasons for this. Jim Bradshaw had alot of input in the design of this program.

Another reason is years ago I attended a Sartin seminar where the featured program was Energy! and one of the instructors was Tom McCrea who was part of Jim Bradshaw's "Oklahoma Mafia" as they called themselves. Anyhow Tom McCrea stated several times during the seminar that Energy was the Match-Up albeit in a computerized form.

Energy had several readouts such as EMUV; SMUV; and UXR which were very powerful.

[turfbar]

Houndog,

I'm not familiar with ENERGY, and I take your word for it,what I am saying is TMH was MP version of the "HATS" --"Match_up".

T

[Houndog]

Turfbar,

I see your point as Match-Up principles can be applied to many of the pace programs that I have seen and TMH is certainly one of them. The reason I mentioned Energy is that I am more familiar with this program as you are with TMH.

Energy just as TMH was not a cheap program to buy especially if you adjust for inflation when they were first released. All that being said I think the price was fair when I compared Energy to the other programs being released at the time.

[fast4522]

When the program Energy came about like all of the programs it was the flavor of the month and was being pushed. I think Dick now has one eye open on this thread and can correct me when I say MP had his own ideas and variations that he wanted to pursue with the third fraction. Bradshaw later worked with a programmer Randy Kovach and developed a few variations of the program Aodds Silver & Gold that had screens like the Virtual Paceline and Super & Mega Chex that was intended to exact matchups as well as pipeline selected lines into dated dos programs like Energy. Reality is if your really hot for the third fraction window there is another BBS that has scripts that load into a inexpensive program that do the Fulcrum and other calculations your interested in. I did not mention the link to that BBS or the name of the program in fairness to this BBS but the program does not cost much at all if that is really what you are looking for.

[cato]

This stared with a post that complained becuase the TMH program will no longer be supported after about 20 years in existence. Really? Is that the deal? Do you think a software producer is obligated to support a product forever? Even when there are reasonable alternatives to the program that are improved and updated?

That seems to be the question and no one has addressed it.

It does not seem to be the case for any other software on the planet so why would it be the case for handicpping software -- especially stuff that is probably use by about 5 people. Jeez, move on.

I continue to be astounded at the number of things people whine about on this and all boards (realizing that I am complaining about complianing...jeez it is contagious...)

[Tom]

When you pay the high cost of a program, think you have the right to complain when it suddenly becomes worthless. The NEW program should have been offered a replacement at a very nominal upgrade cost. Maybe it was, I have no idea, but to say some one is whining is a little callous. Especially when it appears HE was loyal to Mikey for a good many years.

[turfbar]

:( First of all I didn't start this piece to be attacked by one of MP's "poop boys"
as a whiner,

and yes I do expect him to be loyal to his customers. Hienz still supports its ketchup .If he was going out of business because he was bankrupt I would understand .He wants to rid himself of a nuisance. That's all .

I am just warning people what you buy today may not be supported in the future.


Turfbar

[Warren Henry]

I am just warning people what you buy today may not be supported in the future.


Turfbar

I can't get parts for my Hupmobile. Really irrigates me. There should be a law.

[fast4522]

Its just business, in another place I was asked to do something and was responded to a concern I raised with, they will never know. Later in the conversation I was given a program and told that there would be a 50 cent price bump and the dam thing would stop working anyway. It is all about the money, so do the right thing and buy the new offering to make someone rich.

[Pace Cap'n]

Does anyone else miss ProPace?

[Houndog]

I thought about Turfbar's original post and I do have empathy for him. All that being said how many programs have either been abandoned or no longer supported.

THOROBRAIN - Probability Research - Out of Business (This would be version 5 I think) Not to be confused with Dave Schwartz's earlier versions by the same name.

Racecomm (Neural Network)----- Gone but not missed as far as I can tell.

THOROVISION - Michael Perry unfortunatey passed on. I have to think he had bigger plans for this program. Ron Tiller to his credit still makes downloads available for this program but the modeling feature if I am not mistaken no longer works because of a Y2K problem. (I just checked the website and it appears downloads for THOROVISION is not featured any longer).

Sartin DOS Programs ( PHASElll; Synergism ll; ENERGY!; THOROMATION; QUAD-Rater; Pace Launcher; Synthesis; Validator; (Except Val4) which Ted Craven was able to fix with Trackmaster.

Synergism III and Synergism IV (Bob Purdy). Synergism Vl also by Bob Purdy is still a viable program.

I think there are some inherent limitations in DOS based handicapping programs as people more knowlegeable than me could explain better than I could.

One Example: After THOROBRAIN Dave Schwartz created a DOS based program called HNB (Handicapper's Notebook).

HNB in my opinion was the benchmark for the latter Windows based DATABASE programs that followed. (HSH and JCAPPER).

By there very nature Handicapping Programs have a very limited target audience and I am willing to give the programmers more leeway in this respect. Unlike Bill Gates I really doubt any of these programmers are getting rich by there efforts.

OMP ----- Houndog

[fast4522]

Houndog,
When today someone is asking $1495.00 for his current offering do you think he is getting poor? This is not a slap to you, I agree with most of your posts content because of the correctness and way presented.

[Buell]

ss someone who goes back to when Mike Pizzola was teaching with pirco, I got the first version of TMH that used bris files if you didn't want to type the numbers in by hand. (howard was a real piece of work but thats a story for another day

that old bris version looked very similar to TMH i don't know if there were really any differences, and i 'm guessing it has the same problem as the new one that uses the post time data, its a DOS program, so its the same deal, it would have to be completely rewritten.

i wouldn't use the bris because the files were something like $7.50 per track per day. Mike told us that he contacted bris and some guy named happy told him that he couldn't have a discount. i believe mike didn't ask bris for any kind of cut, he just wanted a cheaper file so that we could use it.

out of that, mike made a deal with the drf and put them online.

then, drf got bought out in 1999, and they wanted mike's business but didn't want to pay, so he went to equibase, the only other game in town.

tmh in 1994. master magician in 2002.* Black Magic in 2008. doesn't exactly like a program of the month club to me. besides, we all got an email around a couple of years ago warning us this was coming with tmh.

why don't you ask bill gates to continue supporting windows 3.1? that was running in 1994.*

i got black magic and it is way better than TMH, and it WAS offered at a lower price.*

turf bar, if you have a beef with pizzola, why don't you contact him directly instead of attacking him in public.* he's always been a square shooter, he even gave me a refund on something i bought from him because i thought it made my computer crashed, actually it didn't, and it was outside of the return period, and he was really nice about it. for me, i paid for every one of mike's programs with small bets using his stuff within a month of having them.* and theres no one in just about any business i've deal with in or out of horse racing that supports his stuff and stands by his stuff like mike, hes on that black magic forum every day and a dvd out every month and we get unlimited data and charts deal for cheaper than anyone else.*

[shoelessjoe]

As far as TPR numbers the real credit should go to Tom Hambleton,Tom Barber,Dick Schmidt.

[Ted Craven]

Sartin DOS Programs ( PHASE lll; Synergism ll; ENERGY!; THOROMATION; QUAD-Rater; Pace Launcher; Synthesis; Validator; (Except Val4) which Ted Craven was able to fix with Trackmaster.
Houndog,

Just a point (and I know you're aware), a bunch of folks actually prefer the Energy, Thoromation, Kgen complex of programs to RDSS but are dying because of the manual entry and so use RDSS to export a file for use by these older DOS apps, which they use for (at least some of) their analysis and wager decisions. Not the same luck, though, with Quad, Pace Launcher or Synthesis, though Validator resembles them (and transcends them) enough that I haven't heard too many complaints.

Ted

[shane]

People are entitled to their opinions and I respect that. I'm only familiar with my own experience. It isn't bitterness, it's disappointment. TMH was a tool that worked for me and BLAM did not.
I've been with TMH, HDRF and PTD since their inceptions.
No TMH user was ever given the choice to stay with BRIS or go with Handicapper's Network Online.
The only e-mail I received from PTD about the discontinuation of files was in an MP rant last Saturday, a week after Doug mailed a replacement disc for TMH at a cost of $5.95.
It's a great program and I will surely miss the ability to download the files. Good luck to all PTD users and good 'capping.

[shoelessjoe]

A Odds Super Gold exports as well to EXDC,KGEN,Entropy,Selector,Quad Rater,Pace Launcher and Fractals.

[JimG]

A Odds Super Gold exports as well to EXDC,KGEN,Entropy,Selector,Quad Rater,Pace Launcher and Fractals.

However, it's a bit harder to legally obtain Aodds Super Gold as compared to RDSS since Super Gold is no longer being sold or actively supported.

Back on topic, I also have some empathy for those users that one day will not be able to use TMH with ptd files. I definitely heard good things about the program. At least you got many years of use of the program and as I understand it you could manually input lines and still use?

For those that have used TMH and BLAM, I would be curious to know what you like more about TMH that makes TMH your preferred tool?

[fast4522]

The added note: is silver & 5.5 also export as well and floating about.

[shoelessjoe]

Also takes Bris $1 files

[turfbar]

PTD files don't work with TMH ,PTD files work w/Blam, HM,TMM

Different fileswork w/TMH---it is a zip file


TMH picked some many winners cold ,and that gave you a target to play with

I'm serious so many winners COLD I got spoiled



Turfbar

[Houndog]

Houndog,

Just a point (and I know you're aware), a bunch of folks actually prefer the Energy, Thoromation, Kgen complex of programs to RDSS but are dying because of the manual entry and so use RDSS to export a file for use by these older DOS apps, which they use for (at least some of) their analysis and wager decisions. Not the same luck, though, with Quad, Pace Launcher or Synthesis, though Validator resembles them (and transcends them) enough that I haven't heard too many complaints.

Ted


Ted, I probably should have differentiated between ENERGY/THOROMATION/KGEN and Quad; Pace Launcher; and Synthesis programs. As you have noted RDSS does have the ability to export to the programs you mentioned as well as the different versions of AODDS.

As far as a bunch of folks preferring Energy/THOROMATION over RDSS my feeling is that I doubt that. I know of only a handful of people using the older programs but perhaps many Energy users don't post much.

[Wickel]

I actually had a chance to buy The Master Handicapper a couple of months ago. Guess that's out the window now. But let me ask all Master Handicapper's this question: What similarities does TMH have with The Master Magician? Also, what are the major differences? Just from reading threads on this board, I take it that TMH has more in common with BLAM, than with TMM. Correct?

[turfbar]

Let me put it this way niether had the FD winner even close,its way 2 much for me to go into considering it's on its way out ,but JC ,Wickel you have had plenty of years 2 figure that out 4 yurself and if u read this thread it gets explained.



Turfbar

[Wickel]

Let me put it this way niether had the FD winner even close,its way 2 much for me to go into considering it's on its way out ,but JC ,Wickel you have had plenty of years 2 figure that out 4 yurself and if u read this thread it gets explained.



Turfbar

How could I have figured it out for myself if I never used TMH? I do have TMM. My question to all was what are the major differences in the two programs? That's all.

[First_Place]

Michael said:

"For the past three years, we’ve been quietly building an amazing all-new, completely redone data processing system. This new software, along with new servers, will ensure that we continue to be the industry’s best in thoroughbred data.

The new server is amazing, and the processing is SO much reliable than in the past.

Bottom line is that you’ll get your data even more reliably.

We’ve also revamped and updated our database and are integrating that into the new system.

That means we’ll be able to be much more efficient in customer service. Heck, it’s so straight forward that I might even be able to work it without mucking things up.

We’re going to keep the old system going for a little while just to make sure everything goes smoothly, and after that the old one is going away.

What that means is that Post Time Daily 1 will no longer be supported, nor will the Master Handicapper program. (Every other piece of PTS software, Post Time Daily 2, The Master Magician, Value Tech, Essential, Sharper, etc. and of course Black Magic, is fine).

There’s just no good reason to still be using and supporting Post Time Daily 1 when Post Time Daily 2 is superior in just about every respect. And it’s free and comes with the best customer service in the business.

When we developed The Master Handicapper back in 1995, it was state of the art. Now, the computer tools that are available make those we used in TMH seem like the Stone Age. The issue is that the company that provided a key component to that software and its files went out of business.

What that means is that if we were to have the program, processing, and ‘secret sauce’ rewritten, it would cost us about a quarter of a million dollars. Given that the number of users of TMH has dwindled to a very few (especially since the advent of Black Magic: Ultimate Handicapper™), we can’t justify the investment.

Again, there will be a transition period where both systems will be running simultaneously."--Michael Pizzolla

[turfbar]

I will not waste time debunking your lies because I don't have ANYTHING to gain from it but I will not remain silent while you to smear Doc's and Michael's names. Just two words will suffice:

EXPLETIVE DELETED

FP

You will not remain silent .Well identify yourself and stop hiding behind your name d'plume,if ya really got the balls.
Your defense of MP is pretty strong,but who are you?Obviously you are on the inside and know more than us poor schmucks.

Then your second post again you take MP's side oh it's a business decision "cost too much", MP has so much GD money because I've listen to his rants and production of all his tri tickets and exacta tickets,i.e "oh i bet this small ppf horse with my PBS horse and it was in a high pressurred race and it came back $60 thousand ",if he has made so much money betting he can take the hit and keep producing TMH files.

Turfbar

[fast4522]

Turfbar,
I insulted the right for someone to make big money, the FBOMB is ok with me because it shows completely that that are shills everywhere. Economics 101 says find out what someone wants then sell it to them. The software vendor has to meet that standard one way or another. To take from something President Clinton once said "I feel your pain", but it is all about choices we make. This economy being very bad is having a very profound effect on the bottom line for the people in this business to which I am certain. You can expect their opinion to be expressed as a automatic thing to happen. And identification of the source origin to be quite obvious to most people. My opinion or the next guys opinion doesn't mean squat, its your opinion thats connected to your pocket money.

[First_Place]

Does anyone else miss ProPace?

The only thing I miss about it is I can't run it on my new computer w/Windows 7!

FP

[shouldacoulda]

I can understand you frustration but 15 years in the computer world is like eons in real time. Car makers are only required to make parts for models 10 years. Microsoft stopped supporting windows 98 in 2006. It happens. I wish I had a nickle for every tool I bought when I was a mechanic. My 400$ volt meter was obsolete within a year of buying it. It couldn't keep up with the processor speed on the modules in the newer cars. Oh well!

[Buckeye]

Another option would be to give them Black Magic for free. Sounds fair to me.
Ron F

They refused my request to do that 2 months ago. Originally, both programs, TEH and TMH, could use DRF multi files, but P.T.D. was not interested in keeping it that way, and if, for whatever reason, you lost the ability to go to that second source, Post Time Daily said "you're screwed"

What ever happened to the Handicapper's Network?

Moral of the story: start typing.

[Wickel]

Does anyone know what the final cutoff date for TMH files is? And has anyone approached MP about another option to keep the program going?

[shane]

I've spent a year looking for s/w to replace TMH. I don't want to retry Black Magic. Has anyone found a TPR based program that doesn't use feet per second?Thanks.

[JimG]

I've spent a year looking for s/w to replace TMH. I don't want to retry Black Magic. Has anyone found a TPR based program that doesn't use feet per second?Thanks.

Hi Shane,

I do not use it, but as I recall that is a big part of Synergism VI

Jim

www.synergism-sdp.com/

[Rferguson]

the old version of the tmh can still use the multifile if you alter the dates using a text editor

[Speed Figure]

I always wanted to try TMH!

[Ted Craven]

I've spent a year looking for s/w to replace TMH. I don't want to retry Black Magic. Has anyone found a TPR based program that doesn't use feet per second?Thanks.

RDSS has a TPR component (along with a lot of other Sartin aspects) which is used by a lot of people. The TPR component is not based on feet per second.

http://rdss2.com/images/pa/tpr.png

[First_Place]

cratman,
Howard Sartin well, who was by definition a fraud because he never earned a doctoral degree excused by the fact all was fair under the big tent.

Your statement is a "fraud." Whether or not Dr. Sartin had a real degree from a college or university, the man KNEW his stuff when it came to psychology, and needless to say, horse racing.

FP

[Tom]

I had THE - The Essential Handicapper - it was a really nifty program that I have not seen duplicated yet.

You picked pace lines on the bottom of the screen and the new line appeared in the TPR array in the top, so you could try several lines and see how the horse stacked up by line.

I think it used the multi files.