Another lie for Lefty, Tom and Showme to spin

[ljb]

Lie No. 1: ?My fellow citizens, events in Iraq have now reached the final days of decision.?

The decision for war with Iraq was made long ago, the intervening time having been spent in an attempt to create the political climate in which US troops could be deployed for an attack. According to press reports, most recently March 16 in the Baltimore Sun, at one of the first National Security Council meetings of his presidency, months before the terrorist attacks on the World Trade Center and Pentagon, Bush expressed his determination to overthrow Saddam Hussein and his willingness to commit US ground troops to an attack on Iraq for that purpose. All that was required was the appropriate pretext?supplied by September 11, 2001.

[Tom]

Originally posted by ljb
Lie No. 1: ?My fellow citizens, events in Iraq have now reached the final days of decision.?



So where is the lie?
So what if he had already explored the possibility of overthrowing Sadamm?
Doesn't mean he had decide to do so. Dosn't mean that it was pre-dtermined. What the statement you posted means is that the current events in Iraq have made it time to finalize a decision.
Had Sadamm come clean and obeyed the UN resolution, the war would have been avoided.
I am sure we have contingincy plans pertaining to Russia, China, N Korea, Iran, etc. Doesn't mean we will ever act on them..just means we have them and are prepared to do something if and when "events reach the final days of decision."
Once again, you have offered no proof of anything, only your interpretation of things. Why do you persue this? You have not proved anything nor have you gotten much support in your views, other that Amazin, who is, well, more warped than you are.
Hey, you are entitled to your opinion, just don't go around telling everyone that it is fact.

[Lefty]

Tom, when old ljb runs outta gas in one thread he just starts anotherr one.
ljb, I know you think all the history in the world started with this administation but Clinton talked about overthrowing Sadaam. Bush supplied the guts. Fact not spin. Learn the difference.

[ljb]

Lefty,
I love it now that you are using Clinton as a point of veracity. I knew you would come around given enough time.
Congratulations Lefty, you are about to leave the world of the narrowminded and experience a world of knowledge.

[ljb]

Tom, The lie comes in when Bush Administration uses 9/11 as an excuse to attack Iraq. Had they just come right out and stated the truth. " We want to get Saddam" prior to 9/11 there true colors would have shown and your view would have been the minority view. Most Americans are not war mongers and had to be convinced to attack Iraq through deception by the administration.

[Lefty]

ljb, you have no facts and don't even have the GUTS to answer one simple question. You know my point and YOU spin and then accuse others have spinning. Clinton talked, Bush acted and all you Clintoonites can't stand the fact that Geo. W getting the well deserved credit for the war on terror. Your man could have had that distinction if he wasn't devoid of guts, and yes, character.
Your answer to Tom is just your opinion and not fact?
Who's the spinmeister?
LJB, LJB, LJB!

[ljb]

I'll try to keep this simple.
On Monday March 17th 2003 Bush Said
"My fellow citizens, events in Iraq have now reached the final days of decision.?
While in fact:

The decision for war with Iraq was made long ago, the intervening time having been spent in an attempt to create the political climate in which US troops could be deployed for an attack. According to press reports, most recently March 16 in the Baltimore Sun, at one of the first National Security Council meetings of his presidency, months before the terrorist attacks on the World Trade Center and Pentagon, Bush expressed his determination to overthrow Saddam Hussein and his willingness to commit US ground troops to an attack on Iraq for that purpose. All that was required was the appropriate pretext?supplied by September 11, 2001.
What this means is:
The Bush team had made the decision many months prior to this statement. If you don't understand this, you may want to consider some remedial reading classes.

[Show Me the Wire]

ljb:

May I attempt to make it simpler? A desire to do something is not a decision until you act upon the desire, or decide not to act upon the desire.

I will not disagree with you President Bush may have had a desire to change Iraq's regime and he even stated many times there should be a regime change. In fact, he made a statement if Saddam voluntarily stepped down, the U.S. would not take military action. To me your facts are supporting the statements President Bush made to the world expressing his desire for a regime change.

Your facts do not convince me President Bush lied about Iraq's weapons program and Iraq's support of terrorism. You are right President Bush acted upon his desire becuase of WMD and terrorism. Did President Bush lie about WMD? The answer I believe is no, because I believed the independent findings documented by the international community that Iraq began
developing WMDs.

ljb, I agree with President Bush that regime change was needed and your facts listed above only reinforce my opinion about President Bush's veracity in this matter.

Regards,
Show Me the Wire

Perception is reality

[ljb]

Excellent post!
The only difference i can see is a difference of opinions as to President Bush's motivation.

[Show Me the Wire]

ljb:

Well said. However, you or I will never know his true motivation, because we are not him.

Regards,
Show Me the Wire

Perception is reality

[Lefty]

ljb, I understand what you're saying. Doesn't mean you know what the hell you're talking about.
Another great post by showme, though.Question: If two men say the same thing, how can one be lying while the other is not?
You keep dancing, churning twisting, and end the end, no answer,
just obfuscation. This directed to you, ljb.

[Tom]

Let me make it real simple- we should have destroyed Saddam back during the Gulf War. We didn't. It was a mistake.
We did it in 2003, and it was the right thing to do. End of story.
Ditto Afgahnastan.
There is a list of other enemies that need our attention.
I support that.
The people of Afg.and Iraq will be better off because of our actions.

[Show Me the Wire]

Lefty and Tom:

I want you both to know I felt privilged to be mentioned in the topic title with both of you.

Regards,
Show Me the Wire

Perception is reality

[bill]

lefty said:ljb, I understand what you're saying. Doesn't mean you know what the hell you're talking about.
Another great post by showme, though.Question: If two men say the same thing, how can one be lying while the other is not?
You keep dancing, churning twisting, and end the end, no answer,
just obfuscation. This directed to you, ljb.



time frame

[ljb]

Lefty,
It is time to go to another lie as you again have resorted to name calling. Strange how you use that tactic so soon in a discussion.

[Lefty]

ljb, what name did I call you? Are you reading words that are not there? Do you play your CD's backwards?
But here I will call you a name for all to see: I will call you this name because you dance and you obfuscate and you will not answer the question as to why you call Bush a liar and not the UN and not Clinton when Bush concurred in what the other two said before him. It's a rather simple question that you cloud with liberal gas. You sir, are a liberal, and a gasbag.

[Lefty]

Show me, I for one am happy to have you aboard. You lend a lot of knowledge and elequence to the discussion.