NYRA strips the stakes schedule to bare bones for 2010

[Linny]

Among the races that will NOT be run this year are the Tom Fool, the Peter Pan, The Go For Wand (The Ruffian will move to Saratoga) the Nassau County, the Poker and the First Flight.
The Mother Goose, the Suburban and CCAO are all shortened.
The schedule that has been released goes through Saratoga. I'm sure the Belmont Fall will see alot of changes as well.

[Spalding No!]

Among the races that will NOT be run this year are the Tom Fool, the Peter Pan, The Go For Wand (The Ruffian will move to Saratoga) the Nassau County, the Poker and the First Flight.
The Mother Goose, the Suburban and CCAO are all shortened.
The schedule that has been released goes through Saratoga. I'm sure the Belmont Fall will see alot of changes as well.

Wow, no Peter Pan? That seems completely wrong.

And given that its a potent source of Belmont contenders year in and year out, it doesn't speak well for their intentions with the Belmont Stakes itself.

[Moyers Pond]

The CEO and CFO get paid nearly $500K a year to run a bankrupt non-profit and the purses and stakes schedule gets slashed.

Meanwhile a FOR-PROFIT, is putting up $5,000,000 for a single race in Arkansas. Shocking.

[Linny]

The Dwyer will be run in early May as a Belmont prep.

From the press release:
There are a number of changes to the Belmont Spring/Summer Meet and the Saratoga Meet, including the following:



The First Flight (G2), Peter Pan (G2), Tom Fool (G2), Nassau County (G3), Poker (G3), all run during the 2009 Belmont Spring/Summer Meet, are on hiatus this year. The Dwyer (G2) has been moved to Saturday, May 8 to replace the Peter Pan and the Bed o’ Roses (G3), run at Aqueduct in 2009, has been moved to Monday, July 5 to replace the First Flight.
The Go For Wand (downgraded to G2 from the G1 status it held last year), run during the 2009 Saratoga Meet, is on hiatus this year. The Ruffian (G1), run during the 2009 Belmont Park Fall Championship Meet, has been moved to Sunday, August 1 to replace the Go For Wand.
The following races during the 2010 Belmont Spring/Summer Meet have had purse reductions from their 2009 level: Metropolitan Handicap, Suburban Handicap, and New York down $100,000, Ogden Phipps Handicap, Mother Goose, Prioress, and Vagrancy Handicap down $50,000.
The following races during the 2010 Saratoga Meet have had purse reductions from their 2009 level: Alabama and Personal Ensign down $100,000, King’s Bishop, Ballerina, Forego, Coaching Club American Oaks, Test, Ruffian Handicap, Spinaway, Three Chimneys Hopeful, Albany, Cab Calloway, and Statue of Liberty down $50,000, A.P. Smithwick Memorial down $25,000.
The following races had their distance changed for 2010: Mother Goose went to 1 1/16th miles (previously 1 1/8th miles), Suburban Handicap went to 1 1/8th miles (previously 1 1/4th miles) and the Coaching Club American, which will be run at Saratoga, went to 1 1/8th miles (previously 1 1/4th miles).

[Charlie D]

Oversaturation of product makes many chalky races, so trimming a few might not be such a bad idea from a betting prespective.

Anyway, we'll see.

[cj]

Oversaturation of product makes many chalky races, so trimming a few might not be such a bad idea from a betting prespective.

Anyway, we'll see.

It is a great idea. We give away too much money in uncompetitive races in this country. Hats off to NYRA.

[46zilzal]

Among the races that will NOT be run this year are the Tom Fool, the Peter Pan, The Go For Wand (The Ruffian will move to Saratoga) the Nassau County, the Poker and the First Flight.
The Mother Goose, the Suburban and CCAO are all shortened.
The schedule that has been released goes through Saratoga. I'm sure the Belmont Fall will see alot of changes as well.
With the way the HEADLESS HORSEMEN run this game, why am I not surprised?

I just applied for a job at a track that is in bankruptcy and am anxious to hear what they have to offer. As much as I like the idea of it, don't know how long I might be employed as it has been run much like this one.

[Horseplayersbet.com]

What happened to all that extra money they were going to make from their latest takeout hike?

[thespaah]

Oversaturation of product makes many chalky races, so trimming a few might not be such a bad idea from a betting prespective.

Anyway, we'll see.Short fields as well.
With the plethora of large purse stakes events NYRA schedules, hosremen can duck stiffer competition and nominate a horse in a similarly conditioned event a few weeks or so farther into the calendar.

[cj]

What happened to all that extra money they were going to make from their latest takeout hike?

You have a link that shows a statement similar to your insinuation?

[PhantomOnTour]

The Coaching Club at 1m1/8?? Say it aint so.... :(

[46zilzal]

The Coaching Club at 1m1/8?? Say it aint so.... :(
There are no stayers any longer......The modern thoroughbred would need an oxygen tent to go a route of real ground today.

Let me re-phrase the The modern NORTH AMERICAN thoroughbred would need an oxygen tent to go a route of real ground today.

[Charlie D]

Short fields as well.
With the plethora of large purse stakes events NYRA schedules, hosremen can duck stiffer competition and nominate a horse in a similarly conditioned event a few weeks or so farther into the calendar.



Short fields are mainly a result of too much of the product, which, as you imply means horsemen can " cherry pick" thier spots.

Race conditions book needs trimming a little. Making races a bit more competitive and more interesting. This should then have a knock on effect of boosting handle from which the horsemen will benefit.


Thats how i see it anyway.


Honest, competitive racing is the road to survival.

[Dahoss9698]

It is a great idea. We give away too much money in uncompetitive races in this country. Hats off to NYRA.

Agreed. There are too many stakes anyway and although it might not seem like it now to many, this is actually a step in the right direction.

[PhantomOnTour]

There are no stayers any longer......The modern thoroughbred would need an oxygen tent to go a route of real ground today.

Let me re-phrase the The modern NORTH AMERICAN thoroughbred would need an oxygen tent to go a route of real ground today.
How do we reverse this? Surely not by shortening races. We're already turning out so called 'A' students because we lowered what it takes to get an 'A'...lets not do this with horses too. Soon a stayer is a 9f horse? Keep running them long or the sires of tomorrow will have an AWD of 5.5f. This is the best way to worsen the problem IMO.

[PhantomOnTour]

Oversaturation of product makes many chalky races, so trimming a few might not be such a bad idea from a betting prespective.

Anyway, we'll see.
Agree wholeheartedly. Too many Gr1 and Gr2 affairs, but I disagree with the races they are shortening/omitting this year. The CCA used to be 12f and now its 9f...blasphemy. The Peter Pan replaced by the Dwyer? Just drop the friggin Dwyer and leave Peter where he is!

I think most agree that we have WAY too many Gr Stks in American racing. As always though, we cant agree on which ones to trim.

[Charlie D]

I understand Phantom, but as stated here


Saratoga picks up the $250,000 Coaching Club American Oaks from Belmont Park and will run it on the opening Saturday, July 24. The distance has been changed to 1 1/8 miles, making it a stepping-stone to the Alabama at 1 1/4 miles on Aug. 21



It does make sense to use CCA as a stepping stone.

[PhantomOnTour]

I hear ya Charlie. The placement at SAR is nice though.






(PS-ya think my Gunners have shot at catching Chelsea and Man United?)







Sadly, neither do I ;)

[slew101]

I don't think the bettors are hurt by any of these decisions. Give me a big allowance or claiming field over some of the short-field stakes races any day.

Belmont/Saratoga will still be loaded with quality races. They always are.

[Charlie D]

I hear ya Charlie. The placement at SAR is nice though.






(PS-ya think my Gunners have shot at catching Chelsea and Man United?)







Sadly, neither do I ;)

I rarely bother with soccer nowadays Phantom, so couldn't say either way :)

[PhantomOnTour]

Slew, you are gorgeous.

[slew101]

FYI, it's Paty Manterola.

Slew, you are gorgeous.

[Horseplayersbet.com]

You have a link that shows a statement similar to your insinuation?
I was being a little sarcastic.
The takeout increase was imposed last year in the spring. NYRA actually fought it, but the government made them go through with it on the anticipation that it would help the OTB stay afloat.

At least that is how I understand it.

Meanwhile it is a year later, and handles are way down.

[Robert Fischer]

edit - i dont mind if they shorten the suburban and ccao , but they should card a few more 10f dirt races of lower class variety to compensate for the player

peter pan gone - hurts as a "fan"

[Spalding No!]

I understand Phantom, but as stated here




It does make sense to use CCA as a stepping stone.

That's like saying the Belmont should be a prep for the Travers.

[cj's dad]

I hope that NYRA doesn't mess with JCGC Saturday !!!!

[Charlie D]

That's like saying the Belmont should be a prep for the Travers.

It's not, it is says what it says.

[johnhannibalsmith]

That's like saying the Belmont should be a prep for the Travers.

I'll agree with you here since Charlie seems not to. As a traditionalist, it hurts to finally come to the realization that the filly series is done and gone and the final leg is now a mere prep for another part of the season.

[Charlie D]

For the traditionalists out there.

http://www.nyra.com/Saratoga/stakes/Alabama.shtml



Using CCA as a stepping stone to one of oldest races in US makes sense to me.


Btw, what was orignal distance of CCA???

[thespaah]

How do we reverse this? Surely not by shortening races. We're already turning out so called 'A' students because we lowered what it takes to get an 'A'...lets not do this with horses too. Soon a stayer is a 9f horse? Keep running them long or the sires of tomorrow will have an AWD of 5.5f. This is the best way to worsen the problem IMO.
It really pisses me off to see 3& up races on dirt carded for less than 6f. It also is irritating to see cards where 6 of 9 or 10 races are sprints. Finally, there are few meets across the country that have route races more than 8 1/2F.
Tell ya what. Trainers and owners have bitched and moaned there way out of classic distance races and true graded handicap/stake weights.
I have programs form the 70's and 80's that tell that story.

[thespaah]

For the traditionalists out there.

http://www.nyra.com/Saratoga/stakes/Alabama.shtml



Using CCA as a stepping stone to one of oldest races in US makes sense to me.


Btw, what was orignal distance of CCA??? 1 1/2 miles.
Link.http://www.nyra.com/Saratoga/Stakes/CCAO.shtml..the CCAO was 1 /1/2 miles until 2003. Then reduced to 1 1/4 miles until this year where it is now just 9f. BOOOOOOO!!!!!
But now the CCAO is a prep for the Alabama...
Now here we have the precise issue of the problem wiht short fields and trainers ducking competition.
The CCAO is just 28 days before the Alabama.
Last year's CCAO purse was $300k....The Alabama's was $600k.
So as a trainer or owner would you want to face a tougher field and have maybe a shot at 3rd or 4th place money in a $600k event? Or would you rather go shorter and have a real good shot at the winner's share of a $300k purse?

[Tom]

Might better have kept the stakes and got rid of.......

December
January
February
March
Half of April
Wednesdays

[the Bid]

For the traditionalists out there.

http://www.nyra.com/Saratoga/stakes/Alabama.shtml



Using CCA as a stepping stone to one of oldest races in US makes sense to me.


Btw, what was orignal distance of CCA???

At issue is that they have taken what was once the most highly regarded of 3yo filly classics and made it on par with the Jim Dandy. The CCAO is well over 100 years old and is one of the oldest 3yo filly races in the US. It has been run at several distance. I think it was originally 1 3/8, just like the Belmont, which was it's counterpart.

[Charlie D]

The Coaching Club American Oaks was run at a mile and a furlong in 1917

First winner Wistful in 1917.


So it's back to it's orignal distance, which should please the traditionalists ;) :)

[johnhannibalsmith]

I meant my traditions not those of my great grandpappy... :p

[Charlie D]

Grandpappy knew what he was doing i think :)


http://www.kentuckyderby.info/kentuckyderby-history1874.php


For his inaugural race meet, Clark designed his three major stakes races, the Kentucky Derby, Kentucky Oaks and Clark Handicap, after the three premier races in England, the Epsom Derby, Epsom Oaks and St. Leger Stakes, respectively. These events have each been held continuosly at Churchill since their debut in 1875. However, in 1953, the Clark was moved from the spring to the fall meet. The Falls City was also offered during the inaugural meet and after four interruptions, the race continues to be held.

[thespaah]

Might better have kept the stakes and got rid of.......

December
January
February
March
Half of April
Wednesdays
Year round racing in cold weather areas is a creation of greedy politicians who have seen horse racing as a way to raise revenue and nothing else.

[InsideThePylons-MW]

26%

[GARY Z]

The concept of various members recommending halting or reducing the winter
meet race schedule in an effort to retain the major Spring and fall stakes racesmakes sense, unless you are a Ramon Dominguez fan
and appreciate 1-9 and 2-5 priced horses, 5.00 exactas etc...


It appears the BIG M is again considering the elimination of the
T Bred meet which makes sense based upon short field, low attendance
which mirrors the winter NY meet.

Regardless, some correction should be considered in an effort to preserve the
majority of the described stakes that may be eliminated as stated in other
posts.

[devilsbag]

The Coaching Club American Oaks is (was?) the lone classic in America for fillies.

The analogy of the Belmont Stakes becoming the Jim Dandy is not far fetched.

[Linny]

The concept of various members recommending halting or reducing the winter
meet race schedule in an effort to retain the major Spring and fall stakes racesmakes sense, unless you are a Ramon Dominguez fan
and appreciate 1-9 and 2-5 priced horses, 5.00 exactas etc...

It appears the BIG M is again considering the elimination of the
T Bred meet which makes sense based upon short field, low attendance
which mirrors the winter NY meet.

Regardless, some correction should be considered in an effort to preserve the
majority of the described stakes that may be eliminated as stated in other
posts.

Prices at AQU have been pretty solid this winter, a few days notwithstanding. There have been several P6 carryovers, indicative of upset winners and horses in the $10-20 range winning more than once in the sequence.

[GARY Z]

[QUOTE=Linny]Prices at AQU have been pretty solid this winter, a few days notwithstanding.


Hi Linny:

First, I love NY Racing, in fact I'll be at the barn in about 2hrs
and be at the Big A doing my weekend warrior shtick.

That said, I'm hoping the Track gets the Racino soon, not
necessarily for the "income" which I question based upon the location of the Track vs the accessibility of going to Yonkers, but for the revitalization
of the facility which might draw a bigger "live " audience.


Yes, I know there is some excitement with the current crew of Jocks
(Cohen,Serpa, the ladies etc) and the track's introduction of rolling
doubles, pick 3's 4's supers, but I'm hoping either the Governor
or a new Governor or group of politicians,lobby etal gets past the insanity of stalling the construction of the Racino which , which in my opinion
is hurting the image of this track and management.


For the record, many of the trainers I've dealt with and spoken to
through the years consider Aqueduct on the the best tracks to race at
based upon the care given to the track and the ability to view the
races from any part of the stands or at ground level, regardless
of the outdoor wide screen .

That said, winter racing is dull as the better horses begin shipping to
Florida in September and the the majority of the claiming races
and allowance races resemble tracks like Pha, Tampa, TP.

Add the bias of the inner track and weather, and the field size
and odds drop to groung level zero , and at least for me,
I'm looking at GP, Tampa ,etc for a competitive race with
decent odds.

So, what's the cure? Maybe building a Casino style simulcast
facility adjacent to the Racino and running larger fields between
Friday-Sundays, or eliminating racing from December through Feb.

I'll probably catch some heat on these views, but given the current
economy and downturn in attendance and handle I believe some
changes have to be made to keep this great track from disappearing.

[Thomas Roulston]

Part of me is mad that the Suburban and the CCA Oaks have been shortened, but another part of me is glad they won't be starting any more Grade 1s on that turn, which is tantamount to handing the rail horse a 10-length advantage over the outside horse before the gate even opens (I'd imagine they'll do the same thing to the Jockey Club Gold Cup when the fall stakes schedule is released).

And those 1 1/16-mile races on the Inner Turf Course need to be ditched for the same reason.

[the Bid]

Gary Z:
I haven't found the inner to be as biased as in prior years. Some day, yes but overall closers and stalkers have fared pretty well.

I like AQU (in fact it's one of my favorite track to bet and visit) but winter racing, even with racino money will always struggle in a cold climate. The owners of the leading stables are in Florida at this time of year and that's where they want their best horses. The quality is low but as a bettor, I'm more interested in finding a horse to play than caring how "good" they are relative to stakes runners or horses of yesteryear.

If the state can get it's crooked and corrupt act together (and this is a longshot-we'll probably have 3 different governors between today and next January) and get a racino in place purses will grow but for whom? Will increased purses keep leading operations in NY for winter or will it be mostly mid-Atlantic based operations shipping in? Dropping the detention barn makes shipping in a far more viable option for those not based in NY and I cannot see owners like Shug's or Kieran's choosing AQU over GP for their main strings.
The infusion of shippers would improve things but the overall quality wouldn't increase much. All those lesser NY breds that ship to Flakes in April would still be there as well as the backyard breds and the really slow ones from the bigger NY operations.

I don't disagree with you about most of the issues in NY. I wish the quality were better in NY and there was more to see than the same $10k claiming mares loping about but there are only so many good horses and they are racing alot less often than they once did. By this I don't just mean stakes runners but decent allowance and even beter claimers run alot less often. Gone are they days when a horse that ran a good 2nd in a 1st level allowance would come back agin in 10-14 days. Now it's 3-5 weeks before they return, meaning the secretary cannot write as many allowance caliber races. They use filler from the bottom because they must.