NJTHA

[Brogan]

Did the NJTHA phone conference ever occur?

If so, what went on?

If not, when is it scheduled for?

[Bluto Blutarsky]

No- early next week.

[DSB]

Did the NJTHA phone conference ever occur?

If so, what went on?

If not, when is it scheduled for?


Better still..... how do you connect to it? or is it by "invitation only"?

[Bluto Blutarsky]

Believe it or not...the horsemen are never told when the board meets.
There is no such thing as a Sunshine Law with this bunch.
The President and his board do not want to hear the horsemen's opinion.
The only way to get heard is by cornering the overpaid Executive Director Michael Musto in his trackside office at Monmouth.
You will get snippets of what happened in their meetings in press releases or memos to the membership.
The THA website is further evidence of the contempt they have for their members. It's been in "development" for years now.

[Brogan]

Believe it or not...the horsemen are never told when the board meets.
There is no such thing as a Sunshine Law with this bunch.
The President and his board do not want to hear the horsemen's opinion.
The only way to get heard is by cornering the overpaid Executive Director Michael Musto in his trackside office at Monmouth.
You will get snippets of what happened in their meetings in press releases or memos to the membership.
The THA website is further evidence of the contempt they have for their members. It's been in "development" for years now.

Most Jersey horsemen know that you're 100% accurate...sadly.

[DSB]

Believe it or not...the horsemen are never told when the board meets.
There is no such thing as a Sunshine Law with this bunch.
The President and his board do not want to hear the horsemen's opinion.
The only way to get heard is by cornering the overpaid Executive Director Michael Musto in his trackside office at Monmouth.
You will get snippets of what happened in their meetings in press releases or memos to the membership.
The THA website is further evidence of the contempt they have for their members. It's been in "development" for years now.

This "Star Chamber" bull sucks for the year-round NJ horseman. No wonder the majority of us think we have no say in the direction of racing in the state - our own "organization" ensures we don't.

Where does the funding for the NJTHA come from? If we can find that out, we can find out who controls the organization. If dealing with the organization falls on deaf ears, maybe it won't if directed to those who control the purse strings.

Small guys - ones who live and work in NJ - deserve to be heard and represented.

[onefast99]

Here is an update for everyone, the horseman have not agreed to any new changes at MP and will continue to push for the same agreed upon format as last year. Bob Kulina is pushing for the new 1m a day racing schedule but has met some very strong opposition along the way. The main issue is the timing. Many feel that those mid and lower level horses who fill a lot of the MP races will not be able to go to competing tracks due to the lack of stall space, namely Philly Park. Hopefully there will be a conference call soon to discuss the future on NJ racing.

[lamboguy]

Here is an update for everyone, the horseman have not agreed to any new changes at MP and will continue to push for the same agreed upon format as last year. Bob Kulina is pushing for the new 1m a day racing schedule but has met some very strong opposition along the way. The main issue is the timing. Many feel that those mid and lower level horses who fill a lot of the MP races will not be able to go to competing tracks due to the lack of stall space, namely Philly Park. Hopefully there will be a conference call soon to discuss the future on NJ racing.there is a big shot that mass. gets the slots approved next week. if that happens purses will rise substantially there and sulfolk will be a legitamate venue for racing. i know of a few big people that are breeding mass. breds these days. i have been offered free board if i had any mares to drop in mass.

[alhattab]

Here is an update for everyone, the horseman have not agreed to any new changes at MP and will continue to push for the same agreed upon format as last year. Bob Kulina is pushing for the new 1m a day racing schedule but has met some very strong opposition along the way. The main issue is the timing. Many feel that those mid and lower level horses who fill a lot of the MP races will not be able to go to competing tracks due to the lack of stall space, namely Philly Park. Hopefully there will be a conference call soon to discuss the future on NJ racing.

why don't the spread the casino money over 2 years, pay something like 450k/day over say 75 days? This would buy some time to figure things out, protect the local horsemen and provide a roughly 1/3 increase in daily distribution over 2009

[alhattab]

Here is an update for everyone, the horseman have not agreed to any new changes at MP and will continue to push for the same agreed upon format as last year. Bob Kulina is pushing for the new 1m a day racing schedule but has met some very strong opposition along the way. The main issue is the timing. Many feel that those mid and lower level horses who fill a lot of the MP races will not be able to go to competing tracks due to the lack of stall space, namely Philly Park. Hopefully there will be a conference call soon to discuss the future on NJ racing.

http://www.app.com/article/20100305/NEWS/100306006/1004/NEWS01/Track-s-horsemen-want-shorter-schedule

This is the most recent (if not only) direct statement from "horsemen", other than on this board. In short, Hills and Seewald quoted saying (I'm paraphrasing) they recognize things need to change, but 3 days is draconian. Would rather see 4.

I'd look to meet in the middle- 3 days/week through say weekend before the 4th of July. Then 4 days/week through Labor Day. First post Thu and Fri at 3:00 or so with 9 races. Sat/Sun post 1:15 (I hate the 12:50) with 10 or 11 races.

After Labor Day back to 3 days. I don't get the not racing on Sundays in the Fall either. If they did it right it could be nirvana- get some decent food and have the games on in both the "sports bar" and in the teletheater, run contests, etc.

[onefast99]

http://www.app.com/article/20100305/NEWS/100306006/1004/NEWS01/Track-s-horsemen-want-shorter-schedule

This is the most recent (if not only) direct statement from "horsemen", other than on this board. In short, Hills and Seewald quoted saying (I'm paraphrasing) they recognize things need to change, but 3 days is draconian. Would rather see 4.

I'd look to meet in the middle- 3 days/week through say weekend before the 4th of July. Then 4 days/week through Labor Day. First post Thu and Fri at 3:00 or so with 9 races. Sat/Sun post 1:15 (I hate the 12:50) with 10 or 11 races.

After Labor Day back to 3 days. I don't get the not racing on Sundays in the Fall either. If they did it right it could be nirvana- get some decent food and have the games on in both the "sports bar" and in the teletheater, run contests, etc.
At this time it is too late to change the format. I do like the thurs thru Sunday racing for the MP spring/summer meet. No one knows why Sunday racing isn't being looked upon favorably in NJ. If the racing stays at MP all year and there is a strong possibility it will then Sunday has to be a race day. Add football/racing to the MP program and you have a winner. But once again there is no marketing department at NJSEA!

[alhattab]

At this time it is too late to change the format. I do like the thurs thru Sunday racing for the MP spring/summer meet. No one knows why Sunday racing isn't being looked upon favorably in NJ. If the racing stays at MP all year and there is a strong possibility it will then Sunday has to be a race day. Add football/racing to the MP program and you have a winner. But once again there is no marketing department at NJSEA!

I was just happy to see the horsemen recognizing the need for change and the inconsistent nature of the product. A lot of times you read/hear about the horsemen digging in their heels and resisting change. Here it seems they recognize the severe consequences of maintaining the status quo.

They need to market Friday p.m. it has real potential here. The local draw could be sizeable and combine that with some of the younger set starting the weekend there and you've got a big winner.

[Bluto Blutarsky]

Did the NJTHA phone conference ever occur?

If so, what went on?

If not, when is it scheduled for?


MONDAY NIGHT

[The Hawk]

If they were to add a 4th day (I don't think they will) it should be a Monday instead of Thursday. You have a better shot of on-track attendance, with people staying over on Sunday, and you have less competition from simulcasting sites across the country.

I understand there's an existing contract in place, but since there's apparently going to be a change to that anyway, why are trainers so fixated on the number of days? I would be fine with three days, but I'd demand 13 or 14 races on weekends. Due to the expenses involved, the track would be more likely to add races than days anyway. The extra races on the weekends could be cheaper claimers, too, to appease the smaller guys, with purses in line with the quality of the race.

I agree with you guys wholeheartedly about Sundays/NFL and a twilight Friday. Makes so much sense...maybe too much for them to do it. :)

[onefast99]

If they were to add a 4th day (I don't think they will) it should be a Monday instead of Thursday. You have a better shot of on-track attendance, with people staying over on Sunday, and you have less competition from simulcasting sites across the country.

I understand there's an existing contract in place, but since there's apparently going to be a change to that anyway, why are trainers so fixated on the number of days? I would be fine with three days, but I'd demand 13 or 14 races on weekends. Due to the expenses involved, the track would be more likely to add races than days anyway. The extra races on the weekends could be cheaper claimers, too, to appease the smaller guys, with purses in line with the quality of the race.

I agree with you guys wholeheartedly about Sundays/NFL and a twilight Friday. Makes so much sense...maybe too much for them to do it. :)
There will be several Mondays where racing will occur, Memorial Day, July 4th weekend and Labor Day. The NFL/Racing would be a huge addition to NJ racing as well as a Friday twilight which we have been asking for since 2003. The issue here is a marketing department that is locked somewhere in the early 1980's.

[Bluto Blutarsky]

after the THA board members votes are counted today, Monmouth will race a shortened meet and for $1,000,000 a day purse monies.

[onefast99]

after the THA board members votes are counted today, Monmouth will race a shortened meet and for $1,000,000 a day purse monies.
There is no voting on this it is up to the Governor he is listening to both sides at this very moment. Many horseman are unhappy with the time frame of this new format and they are voicing their opinions.

[Bluto Blutarsky]

There is no voting on this it is up to the Governor he is listening to both sides at this very moment. Many horseman are unhappy with the time frame of this new format and they are voicing their opinions.

B.S.
This deal is done.

[onefast99]

B.S.
This deal is done.
The deal is done as ordered by Governor Christie today. There was never a "vote" by the horseman they did have a meeting and all sides were heard, the results are as you said the 1m a day 50 racing days is a done deal. Time to get some better horses!

[Bluto Blutarsky]

The deal is done as ordered by Governor Christie today. There was never a "vote" by the horseman they did have a meeting and all sides were heard, the results are as you said the 1m a day 50 racing days is a done deal. Time to get some better horses!


The majority of THA board VOTED yes to accept the deal as proposed by the Governor's office. There were 2 no VOTES.
Time to get better sources!

[onefast99]

The majority of THA board VOTED yes to accept the deal as proposed by the Governor's office. There were 2 no VOTES.
Time to get better sources!
Reason for the "vote" as you call it, if they didn't say yes racing was done in NJ, ask your sources. In reality it is a good day for NJ as the purse structures will be huge and there will still be claiming races with nice purses also. The little guy who filled those 5k Weds races will be off to PP or Delaware or Penn. The horse player will be rewarded by full fields and some of the best racing ever in NJ. BB do you think it will be anything like this next year?

[alhattab]

Reason for the "vote" as you call it, if they didn't say yes racing was done in NJ, ask your sources. In reality it is a good day for NJ as the purse structures will be huge and there will still be claiming races with nice purses also. The little guy who filled those 5k Weds races will be off to PP or Delaware or Penn. The horse player will be rewarded by full fields and some of the best racing ever in NJ. BB do you think it will be anything like this next year?

http://www.nj.com/sports/njsports/index.ssf/2010/03/monmouth_park_to_offer_average.html

consistent with the prophets earlier today. I hope they get moving on 2011 soon. Nobody's going to breed in NJ because of this. Seems to me like the grand finale at the 4th of July Fireworks.

I hope they get the $1 million or so/day in daily on-track handle they need.

[Bluto Blutarsky]

Reason for the "vote" as you call it, if they didn't say yes racing was done in NJ, ask your sources. In reality it is a good day for NJ as the purse structures will be huge and there will still be claiming races with nice purses also. The little guy who filled those 5k Weds races will be off to PP or Delaware or Penn. The horse player will be rewarded by full fields and some of the best racing ever in NJ. BB do you think it will be anything like this next year?

Do I think it will be anything like this next year?
If "Burnt Out" Bob Kulina and his staff don't start marketing the s#it out of this meet NOW to gain some regional fan interest and national wagering dollars - next year they will be running a 141 day meet at 180K purse structure a day. THAT SUCKS.

[onefast99]

Do I think it will be anything like this next year?
If "Burnt Out" Bob Kulina and his staff don't start marketing the s#it out of this meet NOW to gain some regional fan interest and national wagering dollars - next year they will be running a 141 day meet at 180K purse structure a day. THAT SUCKS.
I hope they market this new format to the max. The meet will be headline news day in and day out in publications like DRF.

[alhattab]

I hope they market this new format to the max. The meet will be headline news day in and day out in publications like DRF.

The meet should draw immediate attention in general. If I were them, I'd make sure it got off with a bang by taking the Sat of Mem Day Weekend and turning it into a blockbuster. As best I can recall that is not a big national stakes day in the East. Belmont's big day is Monday. I'd consider moving the UN or maybe the Iselin (at 1 1/4 miles) to that date and couple it with a few other stakes into a 15% takeout Pick 4 that would immediately draw eyes to the meet.

[The Hawk]

The best bet at the Monmouth meet is the 50 cent Pick 5. They should promote that more than anything, drop the take and have a few guarantees. Maybe even add another one to a 12-race card, an early and a late one.

[onefast99]

The meet should draw immediate attention in general. If I were them, I'd make sure it got off with a bang by taking the Sat of Mem Day Weekend and turning it into a blockbuster. As best I can recall that is not a big national stakes day in the East. Belmont's big day is Monday. I'd consider moving the UN or maybe the Iselin (at 1 1/4 miles) to that date and couple it with a few other stakes into a 15% takeout Pick 4 that would immediately draw eyes to the meet.
Last year they did 664k on track handle opening day, that will easily be over 1m this year. This was always Bob Kulinas dream a 1m a day boutique meet. I am sure he will get Dempsey to card as many high price races as humanly possible.

[Rutgers]

Last year they did 664k on track handle opening day, that will easily be over 1m this year.

I sure hope you are right.

Actually, according to the NJ.com article, to live up to expectations they need to at least double it. Monmouth Park is where I learned to play the races, so I would love to see it do better. (Plus, as a NJ taxpayer, I would love for it to do better as well). But, I do not think the live handle will go up as much as they think.

Last year, the opening day on-track handle was $664K, but that was with an 11 race card and a crowd of 10,292. So the average person in attendance wagered about $65 on the Monmouth card or a little under $6 a race. (At Saratoga, on opening day, in the rain during the week, the average person in attendance wagered $143 on a 10 race card. Keep in mind, Monmouth wants to offer a daily purse average $271,000 greater then Saratoga. I do realize NJ, at least for this year, has casino purse supplements so it may not need to match the Saratoga handle.)

I do not think a causal player who bets $6 a race is going to start betting more just because the field is larger (assuming that occurs with the large pursues. I would be shocked if it did not happen).

Of course, they probably are counting on other more serious regular horseplayers to start playing Monmouth Park with the new format. But I do not think the format change alone will entice enough serious player start playing Monmouth Park to get the handle where it needs to be. (I have not played a Monmouth race in years, and the new format is not going to get me to change that. However, I do reserve the right to change my mind)

I do hope I am wrong. And I will gladly admit to it if I am wrong.

[onefast99]

120k for an overnight stakes race that was 75k last year is fine by me. The allowance levels are now 80k as opposed to 41k last year they go up 5k for each level. Another one being kicked around is a 35k claimer with a 60k purse up from 30k last year.

[Brogan]

I truly hope I'm wrong, but I don't see this new business model as sustainable.

[point given]

I truly hope I'm wrong, but I don't see this new business model as sustainable.

How can it be sustainable when the AC $$$ ends this year ? Its a one shot deal.

With the lateness of this announcement, the owners./trainers will have to change their plans on the fly. Lots of claiming at gulfstream, FG, CD etc. The large outfits can merely redirect a portion of their stable to the $$. IMHO, the hardest hit place will be the Belmont meet with Saratoga being Saratoga it will most likely be less effected other than a horse per race.on average, but Belmont looks to suffer most. Look for more NYS bred races too. Oh joy !

[Robert Goren]

I truly hope I'm wrong, but I don't see this new business model as sustainable. I think you are right.

[Brogan]

How can it be sustainable when the AC $$$ ends this year ? Its a one shot deal.
I was referring to the 3-day per week / 50-day meet / inflated (with or without AC money) purse structure model.

[onefast99]

I was referring to the 3-day per week / 50-day meet / inflated (with or without AC money) purse structure model.
The Governor has spoken and it is apparent that we are under a very strict rule here in NJ due to the previous mistakes made by former Governors and politicians. You don't have to look too far to see one of the biggest eyesores in NJ and that is Zanadu. Poor management of the sports facilities by the NJSEA combined with Atlantic City greed has allowed the NJ thoroughbred industry to be hung out to dry. A Meadowlands casino and slots at MP would give the industry the necessary monies to survive, instead Philly Park and Delaware and even NY will continue to supplement their horse racing industry while NJ abandons theirs. We will get a taste of what racing will really be like in early September when the golden slipper finally falls and we are back to 10k claimers running for $12000 in purse monies!

[Bluto Blutarsky]

The Governor has spoken and it is apparent that we are under a very strict rule here in NJ due to the previous mistakes made by former Governors and politicians. You don't have to look too far to see one of the biggest eyesores in NJ and that is Zanadu.

I'm sure you knew this...but it's
Xanadu
www.visitxanadu.com

just trying to help you give accurate information to our brethern...

[onefast99]

I'm sure you knew this...but it's
Xanadu
www.visitxanadu.com (http://www.visitxanadu.com/)

just trying to help you give accurate information to our brethern...
No matter how you spell it the place was and still is a very bad idea in this economic climate. A casino would have made that area a top draw and helped our state with the budget deficit.

[bucksboy]

Looks like a lot of low hanging fruit for the big outfits. Trainers who have been on the grounds for years will be the big losers. I guess they had to do something, but they should have tried this 10 years ago, when the economy was doing OK. Can they double their handle in this economy?? Maybe with the off-track whales, but on-track, I doubt it. We may see larger fields at Delaware, with the smaller outfits shipping to compete. Also, I think the guys
carting the horses will do very well with all the shipping going on. Isn't there
a truck driver on this site who loves racing?? What a gig this would be for him.
Anyway, it will be interesting to watch this whole thing pan out. I wish them
the best of luck and hope it works out for all involved. The question is " what
will happen next year". Also, with NY losing good horses to NJ, they will probably break ground on the Aqueduct casino in a few weeks. LOL

[onefast99]

I'm sure you knew this...but it's
Xanadu
www.visitxanadu.com (http://www.visitxanadu.com/)

just trying to help you give accurate information to our brethern...
The last news on the ill-fated project has Steven Ross putting up the much needed 500m to complete the structure and get it opened. For Mr Ross's infusion of cash he gets the first lien position on Xanadu. This was another well planned project by the NJSEA and state politicians, the same people dictating the future of NJ horse racing. Could you imagine if Christie assembled a committee to help direct Xanadu, you would have a few clowns, a few actors, a washed out sports information director and a multi millionaire. It would be the same committee that was assembled to advise Christie on horse racing.

[Rutgers]

Article on DRF website-Monmouth Set For $1M in Daily Pursues by Matt Hegarty

http://www.drf.com/news/article/111309.html

Excerpt:
"It's hard for our horsemen to be the first to bite the bullet and be the first to respond" to the changing marketplace, (NJTHA President John) Forbes said. "But if it's the death knell for the small horseman, it's because the small horseman doesn't have the stock that the consumer wants to bet on."

I am not a horsemen, NJ or otherwise, but somehow I feel offended.

Apparently, to John Forbes, the problems at Monmouth Park are not due to too many races carded with small fields or poor marketing/management. It was due to the horses and the small horsemen, the life blood of the racing industry.

[RXB]

Poor marketing and management aren't entirely responsible for the lousy product that is put on the track. The horsemen have some skin in that game.

[affirmedny]

I'm sure you knew this...but it's
Xanadu
www.visitxanadu.com (http://www.visitxanadu.com/)

just trying to help you give accurate information to our brethern...


I'm sure YOU knew this but it's "brethren" :)

[Bluto Blutarsky]

I'm sure YOU knew this but it's "brethren" :)

LMAO! Nice catch!!

[Brogan]

Article on DRF website-Monmouth Set For $1M in Daily Pursues by Matt Hegarty

http://www.drf.com/news/article/111309.html

Excerpt:
"It's hard for our horsemen to be the first to bite the bullet and be the first to respond" to the changing marketplace, (NJTHA President John) Forbes said. "But if it's the death knell for the small horseman, it's because the small horseman doesn't have the stock that the consumer wants to bet on."

I am not a horsemen, NJ or otherwise, but somehow I feel offended.

Apparently, to John Forbes, the problems at Monmouth Park are not due to too many races carded with small fields or poor marketing/management. It was due to the horses and the small horsemen, the life blood of the racing industry.
Isn't it funny how Forbes has the kind of stock that stands to make a killing this year? Let's just piss on the little guys that have been filling races at MTH for years.

[onefast99]

Poor marketing and management aren't entirely responsible for the lousy product that is put on the track. The horsemen have some skin in that game.
There will be plenty of new faces shipping in to try and take down the big pots. The NJ breds will still be well taken care of purse wise. The NY circuit will see smaller fields especially Belmont Park and when the clock strikes midnight on September 6th Mr Forbes will be doing a lot of begging to fill the 5k claimers with a 12k pot on a Friday afternoon card at MP. But until then enjoy the best horse racing in the USA at MP.

[alhattab]

There will be plenty of new faces shipping in to try and take down the big pots. The NJ breds will still be well taken care of purse wise. The NY circuit will see smaller fields especially Belmont Park and when the clock strikes midnight on September 6th Mr Forbes will be doing a lot of begging to fill the 5k claimers with a 12k pot on a Friday afternoon card at MP. But until then enjoy the best horse racing in the USA at MP.

FYI- the Racing Form column was wrong- racing will be Sat/Sun in the fall. Mr Forbes may still be begging, but just on a different day.

[RXB]

There will be plenty of new faces shipping in to try and take down the big pots. The NJ breds will still be well taken care of purse wise. The NY circuit will see smaller fields especially Belmont Park and when the clock strikes midnight on September 6th Mr Forbes will be doing a lot of begging to fill the 5k claimers with a 12k pot on a Friday afternoon card at MP. But until then enjoy the best horse racing in the USA at MP.

My reference wasn't specific to MP. It was a general response to the idea that people who breed/own/train cheap horses are the "lifeblood" of the industry and that it's all management's fault that the horse racing product in general is getting worse.

[DSB]

Regardless of which days Mth races in the fall, it won't be Forbes who begs for anything.

Long before that point, he will be counting his money on the way to the bank, with little thought given to what comes after.

It would be Mike Dempsey who is left trying to put the "meet for the NJ horsemen" together....

[Spendabuck85]

Some interesting details coming out now:
Robert Kulina, Monmouth's general manager, said that claiming races for the 50-day meet would bottom out at a price of $5,000, but that those races would offer purses of $30,000. To protect local horsemen, Kulina said, many of the bottom-level races will have conditions attached that restrict entries, for example, to horses that have not started for a claiming price of $12,500 or higher in the past year

To get the breeding industry's support, Monmouth officials committed to carding an average of 2 1/2 races restricted to New Jersey-bred horses every day

Full article at drf.com
http://www.drf.com/news/article/111337.html

[onefast99]

My reference wasn't specific to MP. It was a general response to the idea that people who breed/own/train cheap horses are the "lifeblood" of the industry and that it's all management's fault that the horse racing product in general is getting worse.
This thread is specific to MP. I am sure each and every track has its own issues, maybe start a new thread on your favorite one.

[onefast99]

Regardless of which days Mth races in the fall, it won't be Forbes who begs for anything.

Long before that point, he will be counting his money on the way to the bank, with little thought given to what comes after.

It would be Mike Dempsey who is left trying to put the "meet for the NJ horsemen" together....
Forbes has some good horses and some bad ones, this meet isn't designed around him. McBurney trains for him and had a decent year 125 starts and .37 ITM.

[Brogan]

Some interesting details coming out now:
Robert Kulina, Monmouth's general manager, said that claiming races for the 50-day meet would bottom out at a price of $5,000, but that those races would offer purses of $30,000. To protect local horsemen, Kulina said, many of the bottom-level races will have conditions attached that restrict entries, for example, to horses that have not started for a claiming price of $12,500 or higher in the past year

To get the breeding industry's support, Monmouth officials committed to carding an average of 2 1/2 races restricted to New Jersey-bred horses every day

Full article at drf.com
http://www.drf.com/news/article/111337.html
Let's be clear that $5k claimers and NJ Bred races are NOT the same thing.

Yes there will be 2.5 NJ-bred races per day (at what class???). I am not seeing anywhere how many $5k open claimers there will be...not many, I'm sure. I'm also sure there will be many $10k claimers masquerading as $5k claimers trying to steal the purse.

This whole plan is going to turn NJ racing on its ear. To what end result only remains to be seen.

[RXB]

Nope, it just ain't worth it.