OK ok ok. so now we

[skate]

have Us POST OFFICE wanting to stop Sat Delivery, fine.

And we have Unemp at 10%, with a Big Deal Push to give the unemp an extention onto another extention.

Hello, take the extention money and pay the unemp. $10.00/hr. to deliver Sat. mail.:eek:

[Dave Schwartz]

:ThmbUp: :ThmbUp:

[chickenhead]

pay them $10.00 / hr to wash my car and rake my leaves. I can live without Saturday mail.

[skate]

Oh yeh yeh, i understand that, i do, but lets get the thinking a little closer to onedimensionalreality.


Good god, lets stop the mail altogether, fine by the-altogether-guy.;)

[Robert Goren]

Now that I am retired, checking my mail is the highlight of my day. Now they want take that away from me on Saturdays. ;)

[mostpost]

have Us POST OFFICE wanting to stop Sat Delivery, fine.

And we have Unemp at 10%, with a Big Deal Push to give the unemp an extention onto another extention.

Hello, take the extention money and pay the unemp. $10.00/hr. to deliver Sat. mail.:eek:
I know everyone thinks delivering mail is the easiest thing in the world. Believe me, I worked for the Post Office for twenty-eight years. Everyone who started, including me, made many delivery mistakes in their first weeks on the job. You have to move fast. You misread an address. An envelope sticks behind another. Suddenly every delivery is off by one house.
That's just on the street. Before the carrier goes on the street he has to case his route. (Sort the mail in the sequence which he walks the route.)
On average it takes a carrier 2 hours to do this. An inexperienced person would take twice as long, at least.
Worst of all, you're still paying someone. You're paying ten dollars an hour and getting $3.00 an hour in value.

[johnhannibalsmith]

Mostpost... darn you... I was counting on a much more thorough explanation of the great government service that is the USPS and that people should stop expecting it to be a perfectly executed business and appreciate it as the finest government program. We all benefit, it works pretty darn well, and it keeps decent people working. I wanted to post something eloquent about how much money our government wastes on far lesser programs than the USPS and be the dissenting carmudgeon that gives the Feds a quizzical look for deciding this service is the ONE that needs to be rolled back in the name of money... but I figured that you'd do a much finer job.

Instead you tell us how hard it is to deliver mail... ;)

[mostpost]

Is there a way for USPS to save money without eliminating Saturday delivery? One of my supervisors had an idea which makes some sense.
DELIVER ALL MAIL THE DAY AFTER IT ARRIVES AT THE LOCAL OFFICE.
As it works now the majority of the mail arrives at the local office between 4:00 AM and 7:00 AM. All of this mail must be sorted to the routes so that the carriers can then sort it in delivery sequence. They should be done with this and on the street between 8 and 9.
Different offices get different amounts of mail, but let's say it requires ten clerks to sort the mail in that four hour span. After that four hours, you have ten clerks with little or nothing to do for four hours until their shift is over. And since they all started at four, they will be leaving at 12:30. In a typical office you will need two or three clerks to process the mail which comes in during the afternoon and to process the outgoing mail.
If the PO used my old supervisors plan, the carriers would come in at 6:00AM on a Tuesday, for example. All the mail that had arrived on Monday would be waiting at their case. One clerk would have started at 4:00AM. He would have unloaded any trucks which came in from the Sectional Center,and he would have begun the process of sorting the mail to the various routes for delivery on Wednesday. The rest of the clerks would start at 8:00AM. But, instead of needing ten clerks in order to get the mail out in three hours, you would only need four or five to get it sorted in eight hours.

Now I know someone will say, "But I'm used to getting my mail in a certain number of days". In reality, people would quickly adjust and the fact is under this plan it would be much less likely that mail would be curtailed in the office because we were unable to process it in time.

BY THE WAY, the PO has no intention of implememting this plan. It makes to much sense.

[mostpost]

Mostpost... darn you... I was counting on a much more thorough explanation of the great government service that is the USPS and that people should stop expecting it to be a perfectly executed business and appreciate it as the finest government program. We all benefit, it works pretty darn well, and it keeps decent people working. I wanted to post something eloquent about how much money our government wastes on far lesser programs than the USPS and be the dissenting carmudgeon that gives the Feds a quizzical look for deciding this service is the ONE that needs to be rolled back in the name of money... but I figured that you'd do a much finer job.

Instead you tell us how hard it is to deliver mail... ;)
All I was trying to say is that it is a bad idea to hire inexperienced people to do a job one day a week. Even if you pay them half what you pay a regular postal employee the value is receive is far less than what you pay them.

[johnhannibalsmith]

I wasn't picking on you, I swear... I believe you. I happen to think that the USPS is a great service and I hate to see it held to a different standard than so many of our other government services, considering its broad benefit to the public. I wanted to make that point without sounding too stupid and was merely hoping that you might jump in and do it for me and then I could just agree with you.

[mostpost]

I wasn't picking on you, I swear... I believe you. I happen to think that the USPS is a great service and I hate to see it held to a different standard than so many of our other government services, considering its broad benefit to the public. I wanted to make that point without sounding too stupid and was merely hoping that you might jump in and do it for me and then I could just agree with you.
I didn't feel you were. Another thing, as you probably know, USPS receves no taxpayer money for its operations. Everything must be paid for from revenues which we collect. Or, as the case is recently, revenues we don't collect. :bang:

One very large part of the current financial dilemna is that USPS must maintain a retirement "bank" of several decades. I don't remember the exact number of years, but it is well in excess of anything other Government agencies must do.

[newtothegame]

There are many other gov't programs which need to be looked at. The post office is a needed service (for now). With the rapidly growing advances in the internet etc etc...who knows what the next ten years hold. But for now, it's still need.
The sad part is that as a business, when your payroll, and benefits of payroll, are almost 80% of your income....well your gonna have problems. And this is our US postal service....:bang:

[mostpost]

There are many other gov't programs which need to be looked at. The post office is a needed service (for now). With the rapidly growing advances in the internet etc etc...who knows what the next ten years hold. But for now, it's still need.
The sad part is that as a business, when your payroll, and benefits of payroll, are almost 80% of your income....well your gonna have problems. And this is our US postal service....:bang:
I think you mean outgo.

[johnhannibalsmith]

...Another thing, as you probably know, USPS receves no taxpayer money for its operations...

I simply find this incongruous with so much of our Federal funding. Now, I think that it is noble to rely on revenue, but when we have a system that feels compelled to use taxpayer dollars to prop up this, save that private entity from collapse - it seems a little odd that there isn't some recognition that this program, as opposed to the ones that study cockatoos in Des Moines or the like, is a worthwhile venture to support publicly.

I recognize that the moment tax dollars enter the equation that we begin to enter into a new realm of accountability, or more realistically, lack thereof, but hell - of all the things that my tax dollars support on the Federal level that aren't related to fundamental principals of centralization - I would have ZERO problem knowing that the USPS is relying on tax dollars to continue providing the non-partisan, non-discriminating service that it does for our citizens.

[newtothegame]

I think you mean outgo.


Hmmm ok let me explain it better.....of the total US postal service money intake, 80% of it goes back out in the form of payroll and benefits. The other 20% as I understand it is for trucks and maintenance. Hope that clears up what I was trying to say.
But with those numbers, NO business can be successful that I know of.

[bigmack]

Toolin' through town I saw a mail carrier. He had the whole get-up. Pith helmet, shorts, knee socks, boots. For some reason that looks works in postal blue.

[mostpost]

Hmmm ok let me explain it better.....of the total US postal service money intake, 80% of it goes back out in the form of payroll and benefits. The other 20% as I understand it is for trucks and maintenance. Hope that clears up what I was trying to say.
But with those numbers, NO business can be successful that I know of.
There are also costs for facilities. We either have to rent facilities or build them. In which case there are mortgages to pay and interest. There are also the costs inherent in running any office. Those notices you get informing you that you have a package at the post office aren't free. We use millions of those every year. Plus Express mail envelopes etc.

You say 80% goes out in the form of Salary and benefits. That sounds high but I'll assume it's right. It is actually reasonable, because we sell a service rather than a product. A company that sells a product must purchase raw and finished materials to make that product. An auto manufacturer must buy steel for the frame, plastics for the steering wheel, glass for the windows, fabric for the seats and interior, rubber for the hoses, computer parts for many functions. It stands to reason that an automobile manufacturer will spend a greater % of his money on parts and a smaller % on salary and benefits. You can't make a car out of stamps.

[newtothegame]

There are also costs for facilities. We either have to rent facilities or build them. In which case there are mortgages to pay and interest. There are also the costs inherent in running any office. Those notices you get informing you that you have a package at the post office aren't free. We use millions of those every year. Plus Express mail envelopes etc.

You say 80% goes out in the form of Salary and benefits. That sounds high but I'll assume it's right. It is actually reasonable, because we sell a service rather than a product. A company that sells a product must purchase raw and finished materials to make that product. An auto manufacturer must buy steel for the frame, plastics for the steering wheel, glass for the windows, fabric for the seats and interior, rubber for the hoses, computer parts for many functions. It stands to reason that an automobile manufacturer will spend a greater % of his money on parts and a smaller % on salary and benefits. You can't make a car out of stamps.

Ok, youve managed to try to justify it...now I know there are cost...lets be real here. But the AVG american PRIVATE company runs about 20% payroll ....how do you justify EIGHTY PERCENT?????
No wonder the USPS is floundering in its own poor business practices!

[prospector]

we all have our priorities..
i was getting my mail at 11am, watching my netflix movie and returning it by 5pm...i was watching 3 movies per week..
now, they changed my delivery time to 4pm and i'm only getting 2 movies per week...damn post office..
do away with their union pensions and cut salaries...let em starve till i get my mail at 11 am again...
we need sunday delivery as well so i can get back to 3 movies per week..:jump::jump::jump:

[chickenhead]

Ok, youve managed to try to justify it...now I know there are cost...lets be real here. But the AVG american PRIVATE company runs about 20% payroll ....how do you justify EIGHTY PERCENT?????
No wonder the USPS is floundering in its own poor business practices!

They are a service company, whose service is paying people to fly and drive around delivering stuff. My pizza place spends 100% of their delivery money paying someone to deliver my pizza. They also charge me for the pizza, which makes the delivery cost a low part of the total, which of course doesn't have any bearing on, well, anything. If all they did was the delivery, 100% of their costs would be delivery.

The weird part tho -- is that my pizza place charges me more to drive the pizza 2 miles to my house than the USPS probably would to ship it to the next county. At least it's still usually lukewarm when I get it tho, so that's a plus.

[Tom]

pay them $10.00 / hr to wash my car and rake my leaves. I can live without Saturday mail.

Pay them hell.
Anyone now working owes it to those who are to do that stuff - mow lawns, shovel snow, wash cars......it's called get off yer ass. Earn your check.

Get rid of the postal union and watch all the mail get delivered in three days a week! And the price of stamps go down. :D

[eastie]

the USPS is the only thing in this country that works. For less than 50 cents you can send a letter anywhere in the country and have it at someone's door in 3 days max, usually 2 days. The flat rate box and small flat rate box are complete bargains. The letter carriers are all cool. We have bigger things to worry about than something like USPS

[bigmack]

the USPS is the only thing in this country that works.
Like a well oiled square going into a circle. :rolleyes:

Don’t look now, gentle reader, the Post Office will probably lose $7 billion this year, it lost $9 billion last year and estimates are that it could lose as much as $238 billion over the coming decade.

[Robert Goren]

I like the USPS, I get my packages. FedEx is ok, but a bit pricey when compared to the USPS. UPS is another story again. When ever I order anything I have learned to ask how they ship. If they ship UPS I cancel my order. I know other people who used them all the time and never have a problem, but to me they are a jinx. I once had a UPS employee jokingly tell that I accounted for a 1/2 of all their lost packages in 2006.

[newtothegame]

the USPS is the only thing in this country that works. For less than 50 cents you can send a letter anywhere in the country and have it at someone's door in 3 days max, usually 2 days. The flat rate box and small flat rate box are complete bargains. The letter carriers are all cool. We have bigger things to worry about than something like USPS

Yep greatest company EVER....gives away a service....PAYS their employees very well...(80% of Total income goes to payroll)....and every year post one of the biggest losses any company could post and still survive due to tax payer dollars!!!
Amazing!

[newtothegame]

They are a service company, whose service is paying people to fly and drive around delivering stuff. My pizza place spends 100% of their delivery money paying someone to deliver my pizza. They also charge me for the pizza, which makes the delivery cost a low part of the total, which of course doesn't have any bearing on, well, anything. If all they did was the delivery, 100% of their costs would be delivery.

The weird part tho -- is that my pizza place charges me more to drive the pizza 2 miles to my house than the USPS probably would to ship it to the next county. At least it's still usually lukewarm when I get it tho, so that's a plus.

Chicken....youve segmented your business to illustrate sorta the same thing. Totally different. The figures I said (80% is payroll)...is of their TOTAL income. Not just one segment.
In your case, you could not survive if you spent 100% of your total intake. You would have no profit left...which would at some point cause you to ask yourself..."why am I doing this"?

[mostpost]

Yep greatest company EVER....gives away a service....PAYS their employees very well...(80% of Total income goes to payroll)....and every year post one of the biggest losses any company could post and still survive due to tax payer dollars!!!
Amazing!
God!!!!! You are so frustrating. For the ONE BILLIONTH TIME!!!!! With one very specific exception the United States Postal service DOES NOT receive taxpayer subsidies. Every cent it spends must be paid for out of revenues. The one exception is a subsidy amounting to about $96 million a year to compensate for mail which USPS is required to deliver at no charge. i.e. mail to the blind and election ballots.
This information has been put out many times and yet you ignore it so you can make your TOTALLY INACCURATE POINTS. And yes, the capital letters mean I'm shouting. :bang: :bang: :bang: :bang: :bang: :bang:

[bigmack]

Every cent it spends must be paid for out of revenues. The one exception is a subsidy amounting to about $96 million a year to compensate for mail which USPS is required to deliver at no charge. i.e. mail to the blind and election ballots.:
If they're loosing 7 & 9 billion, who's paying the bill?
_______________________________

http://i165.photobucket.com/albums/u70/macktime/3_4_10_23_36_29.png

[newtothegame]

God!!!!! You are so frustrating. For the ONE BILLIONTH TIME!!!!! With one very specific exception the United States Postal service DOES NOT receive taxpayer subsidies. Every cent it spends must be paid for out of revenues. The one exception is a subsidy amounting to about $96 million a year to compensate for mail which USPS is required to deliver at no charge. i.e. mail to the blind and election ballots.
This information has been put out many times and yet you ignore it so you can make your TOTALLY INACCURATE POINTS. And yes, the capital letters mean I'm shouting. :bang: :bang: :bang: :bang: :bang: :bang:

OK OK...and if I am so frustrating...you must (which I already know) have NO business sense at all! Where does the revenue come from to cover the losses ANNUALLY that the postal service posts? Is there some magic hidden pot of gold that the USPS has been storing for a rainy day???
Or are their employees absorbing that loss through pay cuts?? See I knew those unions were a good thing absorbing those losses for the USPS employees .....:bang: :lol:

C'mon mosty...please tell us how this loss in revenue is accounted for? Someone is paying that bill which is either fixing and maintaining trucks...
its obvious it isnt the USPS intake...otherwise it wouldnt be a loss!!!!

[newtothegame]

C'mon mosty...please explain the above two post......mine and mack's ....??????

And I frustrate you???? lol.....

[Tom]

Like a well oiled square going into a circle. :rolleyes:

Don’t look now, gentle reader, the Post Office will probably lose $7 billion this year, it lost $9 billion last year and estimates are that it could lose as much as $238 billion over the coming decade.

Easy to sell stamps for 50 cents when you lose billions!:lol:
But, Eastie might be right - it might the best deal in government.
Only losing billions,not trillions.

[mostpost]

Excerpts from bigmack's #28 Also for newtothegame.

Well, that’s true but mostly not true. Not paying parking tickets and monopoly powers are certainly a form of subsidy.
I don't think it's as much not paying parking tickets as not getting them.
At least locally where I worked the police would look the other way if a postal vehicle were briefly parked in a no parking zone in order for the carrier to make a delivery. For our part we did not abuse the privilege.
A monopoly is not a subsidy. Here is the definition ofsubsidy from dictionary.com:
a direct pecuniary aid furnished by a government to a private industrial undertaking, a charity organization, or the like.
Having a monopoly may be an aid to USPS it is not a subsidy.


it gets to borrow billions from the government at reduced rates ($10.2 billion, by the end of this year, according to the GAO
You own a business and you need to borrow $100,000. You go to Mr. Potter's bank and he agrees to loan you the money at 8% interest. Then you go see George Bailey at the building and loan and he agrees to loan you the money at 4% interest. Would you consider that George Bailey was subsidizing your business? You would just consider that you were making a sound business decision.


.) Last year, the FTC found that the Post Office received implicit subsidies of $34 to $117 million -- and that's not counting the monopoly, its biggest benefit.
I acknowledged the existence of those limited subsidies in my original reply.
And again a monopoly is an aid it is not a subsidy.


I don't envy the people who try to manage the Post Office. Venal congressman won't let them close unprofitable offices, and union deals make it nearly impossible to fire workers. The FTC report found that government restrictions cost the Post Office an extra $417 and $986 million per year.
As for closing offices, you can't necesarily close an office because it is unprofitable. In areas where offices are far apart you need to keep even unprofitable offices open. However, in more urban areas you could save money by consolidating delivery services to one large office. Assuming there is a building in the area large enough to accomodate carriers from several Post Offices. This would save money by eliminating rental or mortgage payments on the closed properties and by eliminating maintainance and utilities costs. In my opinion, it would be necesary to establish storefront facilities for window services in the communities in which offices were closed.
To say that union deals make it nearly impossible to fire workers is a vast overstatement. Once a postal worker has completed five (maybe six) years he can not be laid off. He can be fired. It is a process, but it was done several times during my time with the Post Office. Most of my fellow employees at the office at which I worked were honest and good workers. Every one that was not did not last.

The FTC report found that government restrictions cost the Post Office an extra $417 and $986 million per year.
So, we have subsidies and we have restrictions...and what those restrictions cost.
Subsidies: Between $34 Million and $117 Million per year.
Restrictions: Between $417 Million and $986 Million per year.
Sounds like a great deal to me. :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
You receive $34 million. You spend $417 million. What business wouldn't prosper with that plan. :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:


All these government distortions lead to bad service. The Post Office tells me that it scores highly in customer satisfaction and on-time delivery. But the real market test is: where do people put their money? In mail categories where competition is allowed, the US Postal Service has just a 16% market share - behind UPS and FedEX, according to the FTC report linked to above.There are two problems with the above paragraph. Number one, USPS does not compete for the package delivery business. USPS does not have the distribution facilities, it does not have the trucks, it does not own its own planes. The second problem is that neither Fedex or UPS are mandated to provide delivery service six days a week to every address in the country.

Customer service means just that. If I bring an item to the Post Office, is it delivered on time and in good condition. OF COURSE, THIS DOES NOT APPLY TO TOM'S SIMULCAST WEEKLY. :lol: :lol: :lol:

[46zilzal]

UPS has sued Canada Post under NFTA for unfair trade deal and they look like they are losing ground and face.
http://www.cbc.ca/money/story/2007/06/13/canadapostups.html

UPS sued Canada for $230 million, arguing that Canada Post has an unfair advantage because it uses the public postal system to support its own courier business.

"To put things in context, this dispute was about money," said Canada Post CEO and president Moya Greene.

"The United Parcel Service of America is attempting to force postal administrations around the world out of the parcel and courier business in order to increase their market share," she said in a release.

Read more: http://www.cbc.ca/money/story/2007/06/13/canadapostups.html#ixzz0hKi6prRY

[Tom]

Customer service means just that. If I bring an item to the Post Office, is it delivered on time and in good condition. OF COURSE, THIS DOES NOT APPLY TO TOM'S SIMULCAST WEEKLY.

My latest issue arrived in very good shape.
You guys outsourcing now?





:lol:

[bigmack]

My latest issue arrived in very good shape.
Mosty, you must have a few good dog stories?

prrrDK1lDa0

[mostpost]

My latest issue arrived in very good shape.
You guys outsourcing now?





:lol:
:ThmbUp: :lol:

[skate]

I know everyone thinks delivering mail is the easiest thing in the world. Believe me, I worked for the Post Office for twenty-eight years. Everyone who started, including me, made many delivery mistakes in their first weeks on the job. You have to move fast. You misread an address. An envelope sticks behind another. Suddenly every delivery is off by one house.
That's just on the street. Before the carrier goes on the street he has to case his route. (Sort the mail in the sequence which he walks the route.)
On average it takes a carrier 2 hours to do this. An inexperienced person would take twice as long, at least.
Worst of all, you're still paying someone. You're paying ten dollars an hour and getting $3.00 an hour in value.



Toastpostey;

I know, I know your education and level of intelligence is beyond the point i was trying to make, but look, me, having an IQ of about 81, I've not made any point about the Post Office Workers, never,ever did any such issue come to mind.

Since you brought up the working habits and skill level. Let me say, again, this is not a putdown, rather this is something I know. As a bartender, i had access to Post Office workers, Always, the case in hand, was that every working day, i had customers who worked 'mail del.'
I consider them to be fine people. 4,5,6 of them everyday, came into the bar, with bag and uniform, before they would punch out and stay for 2 or 3 hours.

But look, I do not care if any subs do nothing more than Deliver ONE Letter.