From an old school GP [Archive] - Horse Racing Forum - PaceAdvantage.Com

46zilzal

03-02-2010, 05:55 PM

I went for a follow up for new medication today and happened to ask my GP of thirty years his opinion on all the health care craziness happening in the US.

His first remark? "You know the measure of a society is how it looks after the weakest amongst them. Whenever I start watching the outright lies pushed out there from CEO's flying around in their Gulfstream jets, I feel just like frothing at the mouth it is so outrageous. We should be very thankful that we live in a system where one is not afraid to go to see a doctor, and is something occurs on a catastrophic nature, we are not going to become bankrupt as a result."

I have had the same "old school" family doctor (the one who knows your family, your society, actually listens when you speak and actually touches you for physical diagnosis rather than having a PA do it) for over 30 years. He is a doctor's doctor (many other health professional, privy to knowing what is a good versus a bad physician, call him their family doctor as well) on the staff of a major hospital, is on the ethics council, and is a regular negotiator with the medical services plan every five years on doctor's fees.

My wife and I are extremely lucky and continue to scratch our collective heads as to the continued propaganda these fat cat insurance and pharma clowns keep pumping out to an unsuspecting audience.

johnhannibalsmith

03-02-2010, 06:02 PM

46zilzal

03-02-2010, 06:08 PM

I'm guessing that you and your GP can finish one another's sentences.

You've made this statement repeatedly; there's no real need to start a new thread announcing that some random physician sees things exactly the same way that you do, the same position that you reiterate time and again.
Is it a surprise that people IN the profession, the ones who KNOW what they are talking about, understand things one way and the poor populace gets poisoned by the propaganda?...pitiful

johnhannibalsmith

03-02-2010, 06:13 PM

Physicians have been spreading Pharma propoganda by proxy all over this great land for years and years and years... I think you are merely being a little too black and white on the issue. It isn't simply physicians vs. pharma with the populace bearing the fruit or poison of the victor.

Leonard

03-02-2010, 06:59 PM

His first remark? "You know the measure of a society is how it looks after the weakest amongst them.

Then I say we live in a great society here in the U.S. The weakest that are found in most nations on the globe live in cardboard boxes or, if they are lucky, mud huts. Disease is rampant. Hunger worse. Roving bands of armed criminals -- including their own government -- are a constant fear.

In the U.S. the "average" poor person lives in a house or an apartment. They own a car. They have a TV, cell phone, air conitioning, heat and basic comforts that cannot even be dreamed of by the poor in Sri Lanka or Zimbabwe or too many other nations.

Then there are the truly destitute in the U.S., the dregs of society. Charitable giving by their fellow citizens provides them with food, shelter and even assistance to get back on their feet. Also, no hospital can turn down those in need of emergency medical treatment. The treatment available in this country is the best in the world. We long ago moved past leeches, bleedings and the chants of a shaman or witchdoctor.

Should we do more to assist the weakest among us? Absolutely. But by your own measure the weakest here have it pretty good as the standard of living for all has risen thanks to the very system that permits your hated fat cats to thrive.

Diseases spread and kill in unimaginable numbers in third world countries as there is no medical care available. But thanks again, in part, to those fat cat pharma executives in their corporate jets that isn't much of a problem here --even with their lies (whatever you imagine they might be). Each major new drug advance costs approximately $1 Billion to develop so yes, big pharma is big business and big business has big executives. So what?

Next time you want to have a discussion with your doctor try talking about your cholesterol.

46zilzal

03-02-2010, 07:03 PM

. Each major new drug advance costs approximately $1 Billion to develop so yes, big pharma is big business and big business has big executives. So what?

Next time you want to have a discussion with your doctor try talking about your cholesterol.

Please spare me the fantasy land bull shit. These clowns alter drugs slightly (add an acetyl or carboxyl group here and there that is rapidly metabolized to release the SAME drug) and then claim to bring out an entirely NEW drug so they can claim their patent protection and screw the public all over anew.

Prilosec and nexium are classic examples.
http://blog.prescriptionaccess.org/?cat=101

Leonard

03-02-2010, 07:14 PM

46zilzal

03-02-2010, 07:21 PM

Leonard

03-02-2010, 07:35 PM

The world needs more visionaries like the Indian pharmaceutical team that says screw big pharma, we have lives to save and makes the drug for people's use not to secure huge fortunes.

http://www.ip-watch.org/weblog/2009/09/02/novartis-persists-in-challenge-to-indian-patent-law-india-rejects-more-aids-drugs-patents/

Yes, the world needs more people to rip off the intellectual property of those evil corporations so the corporations can no longer make money, go bankrupt and can then produce nothing else that can be ripped off. Even if, ultimately, what they can no longer produce (since they are out of business), namely new life-saving drugs, would have benefited the human condition.

Smart thinking.

Rookies

03-02-2010, 07:43 PM

46: The world needs more Drs. like this guy: http://www.publicvalues.ca/ViewArticle.cfm?Ref=00371

I first met Lexchin almost 40 years ago @ U/Toronto. He was the first person that I'd ever heard of who used the term 'Generic Drugs'. I'd never heard that one before, but his thesis about how these blood sucking Pharma companies rake it in on their brand names, while fiercely opposing the advancement and duplication of low cost generics for the population made a hell of a lot of sense to me. See: http://www.cmaj.ca/cgi/content/full/174/8/1120

As it does now !

46zilzal

03-02-2010, 07:44 PM

Yes, the world needs more people to rip off the intellectual property of those evil corporations so the corporations can no longer make money, go bankrupt and can then produce nothing else that can be ripped off. Even if, ultimately, what they can no longer produce (since they are out of business), namely new life-saving drugs, would have benefited the human condition.

Smart thinking.
Bull, you mean the human condition for the selective few?

Now Monsanto is trying to corner the agriculture market by their lawsuits vs. every little farmer with their "terminator seed technology" one of the most vile uses of technology I have ever witnessed in my life.

Poor farmers are getting sued who never even used the seeds, yet these idiots claim that they should be prepared to stop pollen from blowing on to their land!

SAME CORPORATE BULL SHIT

or all the yokels who are patenting diseases or genes!

They belong to mankind not some corporation

Generics for the most part are okay except that they only have the medication in them but the delivery vehicle can cause great changes in pharmacokinetics so that a proprietary drug may last 6 hours in the blood and a generic only 2. Generics have a few bad eggs, generic thyroxin was one for a very long time

Tom

03-02-2010, 07:53 PM

Is it a surprise that people IN the profession, the ones who KNOW what they are talking about, understand things one way and the poor populace gets poisoned by the propaganda?...pitiful

No, you are in the medical profession. You are, however, shouting your mouth off about the financial world. If you doctors are so damned concerned, stop charging, cut your prices. But when you start telling others how to live, you can go to HELL. YOU are the one who always stinks up thread with your holier than thou attitude about leaving people alone. Physician, heal thyself.
You hypocrite.

46zilzal

03-02-2010, 08:00 PM

How I practiced, and how many of my money grubbing colleagues practiced, are as night is to day.

My sister just had a simple excisional biopsy which essentially means one grabs a pedunculated lesion and slices it off for biopsy. She works as a medical coder at a large S. Calif hospital so she was very surprised when he insurance questioned the billing as a "surgical repair of scalp with rotation flap." which is a very advanced plastic surgery procedure costing over $3000 and usually requiring shaving the scalp and the sterile environment of an OR.

When she explained what she did for a living and that she was going to report to the medical ethics committee at her hospital, the description of the procedure quickly changed.

I used to get sick of hearing guys tell me things like :"We could have dealt with this condition medically, but I had a boat payment overdue so we coaxed her into surgery."

Pell Mell

03-02-2010, 08:01 PM

My doc was teaching medicine at Tulan and Baylor for years and up and quit. He moved to this small town in TN to become a country doctor. When I asked him why he made the move he said he couldn't take the bullshit anymore. More politics than medicine and all the shady stuff going on.
He has a big sign on his door, "No Drug Salesman Allowed". He told me as an example, the cholesterol ripoff that's going on. He said they keep lowering the allowable levels all the time just to sell more pills. They are even trying to get 10 yr old kids on the stuff.
He also told me it would take hours to tell me about all the shenanigans going on with the drug companies. And, I believe every word he says.

46zilzal

03-02-2010, 08:07 PM

. He said they keep lowering the allowable levels all the time just to sell more pills. They are even trying to get 10 yr old kids on the stuff.
He also told me it would take hours to tell me about all the shenanigans going on with the drug companies. And, I believe every word he says.
Bean counters in the drug companies trying to dictate what is a normal cholesterol rather than look at longitudinal, REAL LIFE studies like this classic one.

http://www.framinghamheartstudy.org/

Greyfox

03-02-2010, 08:16 PM

Cholesterol levels?? Never a problem.

I always keep therapeutic levels of blood in my alcohol stream.:cool:

johnhannibalsmith

03-02-2010, 08:22 PM

Please spare me the fantasy land bull shit. These clowns alter drugs slightly (add an acetyl or carboxyl group here and there that is rapidly metabolized to release the SAME drug) and then claim to bring out an entirely NEW drug so they can claim their patent protection and screw the public all over anew.

Prilosec and nexium are classic examples.
http://blog.prescriptionaccess.org/?cat=101

I'm missing the point of this particular example.

I was prescribed Protonix, realized it cost hundreds of dollars a month, then realized it was little more than omeprazole based PPI and looked for alternatives. Lo and behold, the same quantity of Prilosec OTC was $26.00 and virtually the same product. I asked the pharmacist if this was a reasonable alternative to what had been prescribed, not by big Pharma, but by a physician, and he said yes and encouraged me to use it instead.

The very practical deception was at the physician level. With ten minutes of my own effort, I found a perfectly simple, reasonably inexpensive alternative in the form of another big Pharma product.

The fact that people pay top dollar for insurance, which then covers for these deceptive physicians prescribing the more expensive product with negligible differences (Protonix, Prilosec, Nexium) speaks more to the incestuous relationships between physicians, Pharma, and insurance as well as the moronic public that facilitates it all by not intervening on their own behalf, electing instead to bitch about increased premiums.

If you want to make that point, I'm all ears.

Leonard

03-02-2010, 08:26 PM

Bull, you mean the human condition for the selective few?

Now Monsanto is trying to corner the agriculture market by their lawsuits vs. every little farmer with their "terminator seed technology" one of the most vile uses of technology I have ever witnessed in my life.

Poor farmers are getting sued who never even used the seeds, yet these idiots claim that they should be prepared to stop pollen from blowing on to their land!

SAME CORPORATE BULL SHIT

or all the yokels who are patenting diseases or genes!

They belong to mankind not some corporation

Generics for the most part are okay except that they only have the medication in them but the delivery vehicle can cause great changes in pharmacokinetics so that a proprietary drug may last 6 hours in the blood and a generic only 2. Generics have a few bad eggs, generic thyroxin was one for a very long time

Go to a new doctor. The one you just visited missed the fact that you are walking around with brain damage. STEALING a pharma companies' IP takes away its profits. Taking away its profits puts them out of business. Once they are out of business where do you think new pharma advances will come from? Ten year old goat herders in Venezuela?

Hybrid seeds from Monsanto and other ag companies have been around for generations. I can buy their seeds, buy from another ag company or use (and re-use) my own non-sterile, open-pollinated variety. The fact that Monsanto has developed drought, disease and pest resistant varieties is a huge plus. If anyone wants to use them they can -- they just have to pay Monsanto. Heck, I buy seeds every year. It is just part of the cost of farming. In my experience Monsanto seeds usually outproduce others so why is that a bad thing again?

Also, the Monsanto plants you are describing are sterile -- they do not reproduce. The pollination from afar issue doesn't exist. That is how they get you to keep coming back to buy more of their superior seed product. Or people can just farm using older varieties and have their crops, and their lives, devastated by drought, disease and pests. But why would they want to? Oh, that's right. You don't like big corporations so billions of people must suffer.

johnhannibalsmith

03-02-2010, 08:33 PM

Go to a new doctor. The one you just visited missed the fact that you are walking around with brain damage. ...

:lol: :lol: :lol: That seems just too easy now that its already been said...

JustRalph

03-02-2010, 08:34 PM

Welcome to another thread designed to lure you in so he can bloviate and use a medical term or two.........

cj's dad

03-02-2010, 09:19 PM

Every single post by Zilly, and I mean EVERY post always refers back to him and his supposed medical training or his talking down (in his opinion) to members of this board. anecdotes are fine Zilly, but does it have o be every post of yours ?? Geez !!

Greyfox

03-03-2010, 12:38 AM

46zilzal clearly knows Medicine and whereof he speaks in that Department.
But.....in other areas...except for photography and films.....
and perhaps incremental velocities sometimes.....
we have reason to wonder.

I have no doubt about his brilliance in those areas.
When he wanders out of them, one wonders about how a man so bright could have possibly said some comments so ignorant, except being obtuse to the human condition.

(Of course the last statement adds some credence to PA's earlier comments about an M.I.T. artificial intelligence experiment. Hopefully, not true.)

Greyfox

03-03-2010, 12:57 AM

Hybrid seeds from Monsanto and other ag companies have been around for generations. .

You can knock the Good Doctor for other things but....

Google Monsanto and find out what they are doing to farmers in the next field.

What Montanto has done is bull shit.

If their seeds fly into my field , I'm sued....

Give your head a shake on this Leonard.

newtothegame

03-03-2010, 12:57 AM

And I believe Leonard briefly touched on it.....
But those "corporate bastards" like Big pharma...and Monsanto. ... etc etc...I wonder how many they employ??? Lets close em all down...!!!! How dare they make a buck on products that THEY have done research and development on! What possibly were they thinking????
Want to see unemployment skyrocket .........close down big business. But no need to worry there zil....Obama's trying!!~!!

46zilzal

03-03-2010, 04:35 AM

As long as this continues, you are going to pay too much for medications.

http://www.uspirg.org/home/reports/report-archives/health-care/health-care/paying-the-price-the-high-cost-of-prescription-drugs-for-uninsured-americans

I used to laugh out loud (and them enlighten them to the scam) when I would see people buying OTC weight loss tablets which contained EXACTLY the same ingredients as nasal decongestants yet they were paying four to five times more for it; phenylpropylamine.

At least it had some efficacy for your nose.

newtothegame

03-03-2010, 04:42 AM

So zill....where does the FDA and what does the FDA play in this (scam)....????
Surely they must be aware of it...right?

46zilzal

03-03-2010, 09:53 AM

So zill....where does the FDA and what does the FDA play in this (scam)....????
Surely they must be aware of it...right?
They evaluate medical efficacy and saftey, not predatory marketing procedures.

The CDC urges physicians to contact them as regards pharmaceutical side effects and ongoing clinical studies are sent to both for review and updating.

No one could have predicted, for example, the pulmonary hypertension as the result of the Phen-Fen debacle.

delayjf

03-03-2010, 10:28 AM

Google Monsanto and find out what they are doing to farmers in the next field.

What Montanto has done is bull shit.

If their seeds fly into my field , I'm sued....

Give your head a shake on this Leonard.

If this is true, I don't see this as a problem with Monsanto - but a problem with the courts who entertain these suits. How can Monsanto sue you for an act of God.

boxcar

03-03-2010, 10:35 AM

Is it a surprise that people IN the profession, the ones who KNOW what they are talking about, understand things one way and the poor populace gets poisoned by the propaganda?...pitiful

Shirley U. Jest! I could you bang out the names of at least 10 physicians in various fields in my area who are vehemently opposed to socialized medicine. (Oh, wait...on second though, maybe some of those might have been charging 50K to remove a foot due to diabetes. :eek: :eek: )

Boxcar

Leonard

03-03-2010, 11:30 AM

If this is true, I don't see this as a problem with Monsanto - but a problem with the courts who entertain these suits. How can Monsanto sue you for an act of God.

Far as I can tell they can't. If there is an example please post the court filings (not blogs, not some random person making claims -- actual filings). If any filings demonstrate this I will admit I am wrong. One post seems to be discussing "terminator" type seeds that some companies make. These produce sterile plants by turning off a reproductive gene or something. Usually found in corn. Not an issue. The other post seems to be pointing to a "controversy" over RoundUp soybean seeds. These produce viable plants that can reproduce.

In order to purchase RoundUp seeds (immune to Monsanto's RoundUp herbicide used for weed control) the purchaser must sign an agreement with Monsanto that he will not engage in either RoundUp seed production or resell the seeds.

300,000 farmers purchase Monsanto seeds every year. A dozen or two lawsuits were filed against farmers and seed companies for violating their purchase agreements. A handfull resulted in judgements (the others settled with Monsanto). All judgments have been in favor of Monsanto.

It is the same as buying a music CD, making 10,000 copies and selling them. It is against the law. You can listen to any CD you purchase. You cannot make thousands of copies to profit from. That is what the defendants were engaged in -- and why Monsanto won each case.

Greyfox

03-03-2010, 11:51 AM

If this is true, I don't see this as a problem with Monsanto - but a problem with the courts who entertain these suits. How can Monsanto sue you for an act of God.

There are oodles of sites mentioning Monsanto's suits.
I rest my case. From the one below:

"The largest recorded judgment CFS has found thus far in favor of Monsanto as a result of a farmer lawsuit is $3,052,800.00. Total recorded judgments granted to Monsanto for lawsuits amount to $15,253,602.82. Farmers have paid a mean of $412,259.54 for cases with recorded judgments."

More at:

http://www.percyschmeiser.com/MonsantovsFarmers.htm

46zilzal

03-03-2010, 11:53 AM

It is the same as buying a music CD, making 10,000 copies and selling them. It is against the law. You can listen to any CD you purchase. You cannot make thousands of copies to profit from. That is what the defendants were engaged in -- and why Monsanto won each case.
not the same thing at all as along with this Monsanto is buying up all the seed vendors making themselves a monopoly

boxcar

03-03-2010, 11:55 AM

There are oodles of sites mentioning Monsanto's suits.
I rest my case. From the one below:

"The largest recorded judgment CFS has found thus far in favor of Monsanto as a result of a farmer lawsuit is $3,052,800.00. Total recorded judgments granted to Monsanto for lawsuits amount to $15,253,602.82. Farmers have paid a mean of $412,259.54 for cases with recorded judgments."

More at:

http://www.percyschmeiser.com/MonsantovsFarmers.htm

Yes, but who made the decisions in favor of Monsanto? The courts or Monsanto? It seems to me the courts would be responsible for their own scatter-brain decisions.

Boxcar

Greyfox

03-03-2010, 12:01 PM

Yes, but who made the decisions in favor of Monsanto? The courts or Monsanto? It seems to me the courts would be responsible for their own scatter-brain decisions.

Boxcar

Tell it to the Judge. It's Monsanto bringing the suits. The courts don't make the laws. They interpret them.:cool:

46zilzal

03-03-2010, 12:02 PM

Yes, but who made the decisions in favor of Monsanto? The courts or Monsanto? It seems to me the courts would be responsible for their own scatter-brain decisions.

Boxcar
The courts are BOUGHT lock stock and barrel

Fortunately, one of the classic cases has been overturned.
http://www.percyschmeiser.com/

Tom

03-03-2010, 12:47 PM

Maybe a shred of proof is order here.
What courts?
All courts?

Blanket statements like that destroy your credibility.
Oh, wait, you have none.

Carry on.

boxcar

03-03-2010, 01:03 PM

Tell it to the Judge. It's Monsanto bringing the suits. The courts don't make the laws. They interpret them.:cool:

That, sir, depends on the judge's view of the law and what his/her own rightful role should be as a jurist. A conservative jurist would agree with you that they should merely interpret. But a liberal, activist judge would say otherwise -- at least in actions, if not in so many words.

Moreover, I would ask: Was the person who sued over being burned by hot McDonald's coffee at fault for being awarded all that money, or was it the court who awarded the money? Or was it some ill-conceived law as it was written by the state's legislature?

In short, to say that this woman or Monsanto are the blame for the awards their respective suits brought begs the question big time, since neither handed down the final ruling.

Boxcar

Greyfox

03-03-2010, 01:11 PM

In short, to say that this woman or Monsanto are the blame for the awards their respective suits brought begs the question big time, since neither handed down the final ruling.

Boxcar

Blame whoever you want. I see well heeled Monsanto as the villain. Most farmers can't afford to fight court actions and simply surrender when Monsanto comes calling. Hideous bullying.

boxcar

03-03-2010, 01:16 PM

Blame whoever you want. I see well heeled Monsanto as the villain. Most farmers can't afford to fight court actions and simply surrender when Monsanto comes calling. Hideous bullying.

Yes, the system is corrupt and Monsanto shares guilt for manipulating the system with all its money, however, they are getting away with it due to other players within the system.

Boxcar

46zilzal

03-03-2010, 01:20 PM

Yes, the system is corrupt and Monsanto shares guilt for manipulating the system with all its money, however, they are getting away with it due to other players within the system.

Boxcar
that does not make it morally correct...not even close.

I recall a clinical pathologist used to tell us "Doing the right thing is to follow that mandate...even when no one is looking."

Munich – The European Patent Office today put the brakes on Monsanto’s over-the-top corporate greed by revoking its species-wide patent on all genetically modified soybeans (EP0301749) – a patent unprecedented in its broad scope. ETC Group, an international civil society organization based in Canada, won its 13-year legal challenge against Monsanto’s species-wide soybean patent when an EPO appeal board ruled that the patent was not new or sufficient (i.e., the invention claimed was not sufficiently described for a skilled person to repeat it). The patent challenge was supported by Greenpeace and “No Patents on Life!” Dr. Ricarda Steinbrecher of UK-based EcoNexus also joined the opposition team in Munich as a scientific expert.

The patent was vigorously and formally opposed by Monsanto itself until the company purchased the original patent assignee (Agracetus) in 1996. The technology related to the now-revoked patent has been used, along with other patents in the company’s portfolio, to corner 90% of the world’s GM soybean market. [For more information, see ETC Group News Release, “Monsanto’s Soybean Monopoly Challenged in Munich,” April 30, 2007 http://www.etcgroup.org/en/materials/publications.html?pub_id=616]

“It’s shameful that it took the European Patent office 13 years to kill Monsanto’s immoral patent, which was ultimately revoked on technical grounds. Though we’re relieved that the species-wide patent on all genetically modified soybeans – both seeds and plants – was not allowed to stand, the delay of more than a decade demonstrates just how broken the patent system is. The patent had barely a year to go before expiring!” said Hope Shand, who represented ETC Group in Munich today.

“It was particularly satisfying,” said Shand, “that Monsanto’s own blistering 1994 arguments against the patent were ultimately key in defeating it.” One of Monsanto’s top scientists testified in 1994 that the genetic engineering process described in the patent was insufficient to allow a skilled scientist to replicate the procedure – a necessary criterion for patentability.

johnhannibalsmith

03-03-2010, 01:22 PM

not the same thing at all as along with this Monsanto is buying up all the seed vendors making themselves a monopoly

A monpoly? I readily admit to not knowing a whole lot about this industry, but I would expect some anti-trust litigation or severe regulation if these consumers are truly being deprived choice in the market considering the scope and impact of the industry.

46zilzal

03-03-2010, 01:26 PM

johnhannibalsmith

03-03-2010, 01:47 PM

Read about some of their greed right here.
http://www.seedalliance.org/Seed_News/SeminisMonsanto/

That's quite a lot to digest (yes pun indeed) for someone that tries to be objective and isn't intimately close to the situation.

But I do think that the author did a pretty noble job of portraying the issue without ignoring the potential benefits to harp solely on the detriments.

I liked this random excerpt:

A-century-and-a-half ago there was only one mega-distributor of seeds in this country. Lobbying and activism brought about its demise. That distributor was the United States government, and the rabble rousers who broke that monopoly were none other than the American Seed Trade Association – whose largest modern financial benefactor is none other than Monsanto.

My only real issue from the gitgo of the text is that the "greed" element seems to lay more at the feet of Seminis and Alfonso Romo, already a billionaire but proven to sell out, exemplified by the $1.5B sale of Empresas La Moderna in the 90's.

Clearly there is a larger disdain for Monsanto than merely the acquisition of a company that from my reading, seemed to be more akin to acquiring a new, but complementary product as opposed to buying out direct competition to influence the market.

It's interesting stuff and I guess the fact that Seminis' realm of products seems to be a new venture in terms of actual vision for Monsanto and that probably precludes them from specifically being viewed as monopolistic if the competition is as undermined as you suggest.

Leonard

03-03-2010, 02:12 PM

A monpoly? I readily admit to not knowing a whole lot about this industry, but I would expect some anti-trust litigation or severe regulation if these consumers are truly being deprived choice in the market considering the scope and impact of the industry.

There are hundreds of seed companies farmers may do business with. Those seeds are usually organic or conventional seeds. Monsanto specializes in bio-engineering seed varieties. They withstand various harsh conditions farmers have to put up with but farmers do not have to purchase from Monsanto. They have a "monopoly" on their specialized seeds, which they created. Not the run of the mill seeds farmers of yesteryear planted (which again, are still available from many other companies).

46zilzal

03-03-2010, 02:15 PM

There are hundreds of seed companies farmers may do business with. Those seeds are usually organic or conventional seeds. Monsanto specializes in bio-engineering seed varieties. They withstand various harsh conditions farmers have to put up with but farmers do not have to purchase from Monsanto. They have a "monopoly" on their specialized seeds, which they created. Not the run of the mill seeds farmers of yesteryear planted (which again, are still available from many other companies).
Not according to information in FOOD incorporated, a documentary film

http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSN087196620100108

bigmack

03-03-2010, 02:22 PM

Not according to information in FOOD incorporated, a documentary film
Absolutes from yet another documentary :lol: :lol:

LottaKash

03-03-2010, 02:35 PM

Also, the Monsanto plants you are describing are sterile -- they do not reproduce. The pollination from afar issue doesn't exist. That is how they get you to keep coming back to buy more of their superior seed product. Or people can just farm using older varieties and have their crops, and their lives, devastated by drought, disease and pests. But why would they want to? Oh, that's right. You don't like big corporations so billions of people must suffer.

The one thing that really hasn't been brought up in this "seed" issue is one of health and the metaboboliztion of the these "miracle seeds".....

"ALL", of Monsanto's and other companies of thier ilk, haven't been totally up front, when it comes to their "GMO" (genetically modified) miracle seeds....

The human body "as is" has a an extremely hard time of it, when trying to metabolilcaly breakdown the GMO's, and as a result, we get too little, if any, real nutrition from eatings foods that were grown with these miracle seeds.....Sure, they may be insect or blight protected to some degree or other, but our bodies are just not equipped to handle these new foods as they are....The body, simply, just does not know what to do with it.....As a result we are quckly becoming a nation that is starving for good nutrition....GMO Soybeans, Corn and Wheat, to name a few, are worthless to the human body....Just as it is, with man made fats and oil (trans-fats) our bodies simply do not know how to process them as GOD designed and intended us to do....We are becoming sicker and sicker as a result.....

Living healthier and longer, is all about the bodies ability to correctly break down the foods in order to get the proper elements of nutrition into our red blood cells, and GMO's fail miserably in that regard...

Not my opinion, just the facts....