Fabulous Frank Stronach. You can't make it up!

[andymays]

http://www.dailybulletin.com/ci_14496214

Excerpt:

Stronach told a roomful of mostly befuddled horsemen, which included California Thoroughbred Trainers president John Sadler, John Shirreffs, Darrell Vienna, Bruce Headley, Mark Glatt, Eoin Harty, Vladimir Cerin, A.C. Avila, Rafael Becerra, James Cassidy and Barry Abrams, what they perhaps didn't expect to hear.

Excerpt:

"We kept telling him we're here to talk about the track and you can't shut him up about free enterprise," said Headley, a longtime critic of synthetics. "He thinks he'll be able to change everything so he can race any time he wants, against Del Mar, Hollywood Park or Pomona.

"We told him we weren't there to discuss free enterprise, that's not our decision because we're the track committee, but he still kept going on and on about it."

Zenyatta's owner Jerry Moss, another anti-synthetic horseman, met with Stronach on Sunday at Santa Anita and reportedly got the same message the trainers received about 24 hours later.

"Free enterprise, free enterprise, free enterprise," Headley said. "And he's never going to get it. Of course, there won't be a horse left (in California) by that time.

Excerpt:

"What I understand Stronach to be saying is vintage Stronach," Liebau said. "His mantra has always been free enterprise, which I understand to be some form of deregulation. I differ with Stronach in that I believe racing in California needs to be subject to additional oversight with respect to financial responsibility.

[andymays]

http://www.rogerstein.com/radio/archive2.asp

Roger Stein show - Archived shows

Stronach Interview on 2-27


2-28 show--Response to emails about Frank Stronach and other stuff. Really good show.

[FenceBored]

All of the above?

Racetrack ownership is indeed a highly and strangely regulated thing. What percentage of other business types have to get approval from competitors before they can start up? So, Frank's right that what he's calling "free enterprise" would help him.

But, he is a wackadoo, yep, no doubt about it. What is it with California and Austrian wackadoo in positions of power, anyway?

[andymays]

All of the above?

Racetrack ownership is indeed a highly and strangely regulated thing. What percentage of other business types have to get approval from competitors before they can start up? So, Frank's right that what he's calling "free enterprise" would help him.

But, he is a wackadoo, yep, no doubt about it. What is it with California and Austrian wackadoo in positions of power, anyway?


If you've ever met Bruce Headley or heard him interviewed you would know the man knows what he's talking about. When I read the quotes I can't help but crack up and I would have loved to be in the room yesterday.

I don't think Frank is talking about "free enterprise" the way most people think of "free enterprise".

I also think that racing surface aside even the Pro Ride advocates are shaking their heads today.

[FenceBored]

If you've ever met Bruce Headley or heard him interviewed you would know the man knows what he's talking about. When I read the quotes I can't help but crack up and I would have loved to be in the room yesterday.

I don't think Frank is talking about "free enterprise" the way most people think of "free enterprise".


Agreed, that's why I said "what he's calling 'free enterprise,'" to distance his definition from the one the rest of us use.

Oh yeah, wackadoo central, but in his madness he still makes more intellegent points than certain Message board Participants I could refer to.


I also think that racing surface aside even the Pro Ride advocates are shaking their heads today.

Aren't we all (except DJofSD)?

[andymays]

Agreed, that's why I said "what he's calling 'free enterprise,'" to distance his definition from the one the rest of us use.

Oh yeah, wackadoo central, but in his madness he still makes more intellegent points than certain Message board Participants I could refer to.



Aren't we all (except DJofSD)?


DJ is a San Diego guy like me so it's early in the AM out here. I'm chalking his vote up to "way to early"!

[DJofSD]

I think Frank knows what he is doing. However, it does not mean it makes any sense or will help change things for the better. He has an agenda -- of some kind.

As far as I can tell, racing in California has not reached bottom yet. And like an addict, it will not change until it has reached absolute rock bottom. In the mean time more fans will quit, more horses will leave California along with any trainer that has half a brain.

[andymays]

In the mean time more fans will quit, more horses will leave California along with any trainer that has half a brain.

Agree! :ThmbUp:

[rwwupl]

If you've ever met Bruce Headley or heard him interviewed you would know the man knows what he's talking about. When I read the quotes I can't help but crack up and I would have loved to be in the room yesterday.

I don't think Frank is talking about "free enterprise" the way most people think of "free enterprise".

I also think that racing surface aside even the Pro Ride advocates are shaking their heads today.


I think the rest of the USA racing fans are now getting a clue what we in California have had to live with for quite a while.

California horse racing is only a shell of its former self, thanks to irrational , incompetent and selfish leadership at all levels.

They say ,if you are an alcoholic, you will not save yourself until you hit bottom... we are close now with racing, who or what will be our hero?

[miesque]

I may be missing something, but can someone (hopefully in a coherent fashion, not yelling in run on sentences) explain to me exactly what the point of the poll on this thread is in its current wording and what is it actually supposed to achieve other then perhaps maybe making one feel better about themselves? I am by no means supporting Frank Stronach or his interview or comments but the fact remains that it is he is the one that will control three racetracks (Santa Anita, Golden Gate and Gulfstream) when the dust settles on this MEC mess of bankruptcy and I just don't see how polls are productive in getting the changes made that the various posters in these threads have wanted. Why stop with Stronach, why not start a poll for every racing/industry leader to see who is the biggest "Wackadoo" of them all?

[FenceBored]

I may be missing something, but can someone (hopefully in a coherent fashion, not yelling in run on sentences) explain to me exactly what the point of the poll on this thread is in its current wording and what is it actually supposed to achieve other then perhaps maybe making one feel better about themselves? I am by no means supporting Frank Stronach or his interview or comments but the fact remains that it is he is the one that will control three racetracks (Santa Anita, Golden Gate and Gulfstream) when the dust settles on this MEC mess of bankruptcy and I just don't see how polls are productive in getting the changes made that the various posters in these threads have wanted. Why stop with Stronach, why not start a poll for every racing/industry leader to see who is the biggest "Wackadoo" of them all?

I'm not sure the servers could take the load.

As to your major question, I think the point is indeed to give people an additional outlet to express their displeasure at Frank's bizarre performance over the past few days. The other threads didn't have a poll. :)

[Igeteven]

One french fry short of a Happy Meal


:liar: :liar: :liar: :liar: :liar: :liar: :liar: :liar: :liar: :liar:

[miesque]

I'm not sure the servers could take the load.

As to your major question, I think the point is indeed to give people an additional outlet to express their displeasure at Frank's bizarre performance over the past few days. The other threads didn't have a poll. :)

I can understand and appreciate the need for comments and maybe its just the fact that one of the first conclusions I came to from the time I was first exposed to horse activities as a little kid and between then and now being exposed to and involved with many different horse pursuits including racing is the following: Everyone involved with horses in any capacity and any subset is pretty much at least partially crazy and off their rocker, some are just more eccentric then others. This is why you could start a section called "Chock Full O' Nuts" with these types of threads and almost immediately eclipse the number of posts in all the other sections of this forum. I have learned that is something you have to keep in mind when doing anything in the horse industry and work within those confines. Also I can honestly say that I have never seen a situation when publicly calling someone with actual power a wacko actually achieved the desired end game. If there are those who thinks doing so improve the chance of not only getting their voice heard but actually be listened to, by all means proceed. Just my two cents worth.

[PhantomOnTour]

I am no fan of Frank, but after reading the article at DRF regarding the surface at SA, what should he do? He spent lots of money installing a surface the STATE MADE HIM PUT IN, even though he says he was against the Cali Poly mandate in 2006 or so. Now they want him to fork over another fortune to resurface again?

All his screw-ups with GP and his other Magna disasters aside; in this instance I cant say I blame Stronach for not wanting to lay out all that cash to bring dirt back to SA.

[Greyfox]

Everyone involved with horses in any capacity and any subset is pretty much at least partially crazy and off their rocker, some are just more eccentric then others. ....Also I can honestly say that I have never seen a situation when publicly calling someone with actual power a wacko actually achieved the desired end game. .

:ThmbUp: :ThmbUp: The above comments should be a candidate for post of the month.

[FenceBored]

I can understand and appreciate the need for comments and maybe its just the fact that one of the first conclusions I came to from the time I was first exposed to horse activities as a little kid and between then and now being exposed to and involved with many different horse pursuits including racing is the following: Everyone involved with horses in any capacity and any subset is pretty much at least partially crazy and off their rocker, some are just more eccentric then others. This is why you could start a section called "Chock Full O' Nuts" with these types of threads and almost immediately eclipse the number of posts in all the other sections of this forum. I have learned that is something you have to keep in mind when doing anything in the horse industry and work within those confines. Also I can honestly say that I have never seen a situation when publicly calling someone with actual power a wacko actually achieved the desired end game. If there are those who thinks doing so improve the chance of not only getting their voice heard but actually be listened to, by all means proceed. Just my two cents worth.

Hmm, considering polititicians get called wackos all the time, and some of them change their position, I'm not sure it's as cut and dry as that. Calling Frank a wacko, by itself, will probably not have the desired effect, but merely refraining from doing so isn't going to change things either. When someone calls me a wacko I try not to let that blind me to any good points they may be making; don't always succeed, but I try. For some reason I've got the audio memory of a Monty Python sketch where one screams at the other "You're a LOON" caught in my head. I'd say wackadoo and loon are fairly analagous, and people routinely call others crazy, loony, loon, insane in disagreements all the time. In the end you try to let that go and reach an agreement on the merits.

Now, I wouldn't suggest that anyone buy Mr. Stronach a wackadoo stein (available through the urban dictionary (http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=wackadoo)), but otherwise ...

[Kimsus]

I would categorize Stronach as abit, okay maybe more than abit 'eccentric.' It would be not wise to mistaken his eccentricity as idiocy.

[FenceBored]

I would categorize Stronach as abit, okay maybe more than abit 'eccentric.' It would be not wise to mistaken his eccentricity as idiocy.

Ok, explain this:

http://www.thoroughbredtimes.com/images/magna-earnings-chart.gif

[Fingal]

Frank........you want your brand of free enterprise where everyone competes against each other at the same time. OK........... but just consider this, your ego won't let you, but you really should...........California has always been considered an island in the scheme of the racing universe. Suppose you " win " & force your competitors out of business. Then you & CA will truly be an island !

It's like the saying- Be careful for what you ask for- you just may get it.

Please- go away. Go back to Canada & play with your auto parts company. Support your kids in their endeavours & breed horses. It's what your good at.

[Kimsus]

Ok, explain this:

http://www.thoroughbredtimes.com/images/magna-earnings-chart.gif

Too easy to explain this, look at how much the greatest investor Warren Buffett has lost the past 2 yrs and really it is not a surprise. Infact I don't know a person who has a portfolio during the credit crisis that hasn't been affected.

[FenceBored]

Too easy to explain this, look at how much the greatest investor Warren Buffett has lost the past 2 yrs and really it is not a surprise. Infact I don't know a person who has a portfolio during the credit crisis that hasn't been affected.

The chart shows the earnings peaking in 2001 and no year after 2002 with losses of less than around $75,000,000. That's a little bit longer timeframe than the last two years.

[Greyfox]

http://www.thoroughbredtimes.com/images/magna-earnings-chart.gif

I understand that Al Gore is using this graph to show that Magna's fortunes are inversely proportional to his hockey stick. See what Global Warming incurred. ;)

[Kimsus]

The chart shows the earnings peaking in 2001 and no year after 2002 with losses of less than around $75,000,000. That's a little bit longer timeframe than the last two years.

Well if you look at any company, normally you snapshot the entire lifespan of the co. Not just selective years. 1 yr - 5 yr - 10 yr - 20 yr. Give credit where credit is due, he built Magna Intl. from nothing into one of north america's largest parts co in the world. You don't do something on that scale without some skill and smarts.

[PhantomOnTour]

What would you do if you were Stronach? Seriously, not what you want him to do(or what you want him to shove and where you want him to shove it! :) ), but if you were him.

Would you spend the fortune to resurface or not?
Sell and bail out of Cali altogether?

[Horseplayersbet.com]

Magna Seeks Additional Financing from Parent
By The Associated Press




Magna Entertainment Corp. says it needs additional debtor-in-possession financing as it works to emerge from Chapter 11 bankruptcy.

Ontario, Canada-based Magna, the largest horse track owner in the United States, previously reached agreements with a subsidiary of its parent company, MI Developments, also known as MID, for $64.4 million in financing.

But Magna, which filed a reorganization plan two weeks ago, says it is facing liquidity issues because of an unexpected decline in horse racing revenues and weather-related race cancellations at Santa Anita Park in California.

Magna is seeking court approval for $7 million more in financing from MID to see it through the effective date of its reorganization plan.

A Delaware judge is expected to consider the request at a hearing March 3.
http://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-racing/articles/55652/magna-seeks-additional-financing-from-parent

Now what happens if MID says no to more financing? No wonder Stronach can't even consider putting in a new surface.

[FenceBored]

Well if you look at any company, normally you snapshot the entire lifespan of the co. Not just selective years. 1 yr - 5 yr - 10 yr - 20 yr. Give credit where credit is due, he built Magna Intl. from nothing into one of north america's largest parts co in the world. You don't do something on that scale without some skill and smarts.

Um, scuse me, but that's kinda what you're looking at (MI spin-off incorporation of Magna Entertainment Corporation in late 1999 through the publication date of the article (http://www.thoroughbredtimes.com/national-news/2009/March/05/Magna-files-for-bankruptcy.aspx) that graph accompanies in March 2009.

[andymays]

I can understand and appreciate the need for comments and maybe its just the fact that one of the first conclusions I came to from the time I was first exposed to horse activities as a little kid and between then and now being exposed to and involved with many different horse pursuits including racing is the following: Everyone involved with horses in any capacity and any subset is pretty much at least partially crazy and off their rocker, some are just more eccentric then others. This is why you could start a section called "Chock Full O' Nuts" with these types of threads and almost immediately eclipse the number of posts in all the other sections of this forum. I have learned that is something you have to keep in mind when doing anything in the horse industry and work within those confines. Also I can honestly say that I have never seen a situation when publicly calling someone with actual power a wacko actually achieved the desired end game. If there are those who thinks doing so improve the chance of not only getting their voice heard but actually be listened to, by all means proceed. Just my two cents worth.


Since my favorite HANA Board member has chosen to knock me I guess I'll have to respond again. After all this happens every month or two. I'm the guy she loves to hate and has initiated personal attacks against me over the last year (feel free to check). When I've responded to the attacks I've taken the low road as well but after a while the hate andymays stuff gets a little old. After all there is an ignore function yet this person would rather hang on my every post waiting to pull the long knives out.

Here's the deal:

If everyone listened to the Roger Stein interview and has read the follow up articles including the thread starter it would be hard to deny that most people who listened to the show or read the articles would conclude that Fabulous Franks comments were anywhere from off the wall to crazy (hence the term wackadoo). The Paulick report headlines after the Stein Interview and the Bill Christine column read "Say What". Here is the link to the Billl Christine article which by the way is entitle "Wonderland" :) http://www.horseraceinsider.com/lines-in-the-sand/

The other thing that happened over the weekend was an incident at Fabulous Franks other Track called Gulfstream. Fabulous Frank and his Track screwed the Horseplayers by changing surfaces in the last race with 10 minutes to go. Here is the thread about it:

http://www.paceadvantage.com/forum/showthread.php?t=67154

The other big thing in the Stein interview was the question about takeout. Anyone listening could hear that Fabulous Frank was not interested in talking about takeout. In fact most listeners concluded that Horseplayers are about to receive another screwing from Fabulous Frank if he raises the takeout.

Now after all the evidence is in and reasonable people can disagree of course most would conclude that Fabulous Frank is not Horseplayer friendly and Fabulous Frank may not be all there. The poll would indicate that most people agree with me on that.

So in closing Miss HANA Board member I'd like to know where you were when all this was going on. You certainly have time to knock your favorite HANA member but not the time to stick up for Horseplayers when it comes to what happened at Gulfstream, or that Fabulous Frank ducked the takeout question. I guess those things take a back seat to your hatred of me. After all what's more important knocking anymays or sticking up for your other 1399 members?

It is also interesting that you chose to vote for the HBO series as being good for racing (I don't mind the show a bit). I guess the integrity thing is for only when it's convenient. After all there will be no name calling on that show. Otherwise Miss HANA Board member will chastise them right? I guess on the show they will play nice. Maybe Paddy Cake? :D


So you can keep leading with your chin when it comes to my style and what I choose to fight for or you can just ignore me or you can buy the board and only let the people you like offer their opinions.

By the way it's not all long knives and things. You do a great job as HANA Hostess and for that I applaud you!

As usual thanks for the love and rock on! :ThmbUp:

Your Pal Andy ;)

[miesque]

So in closing Miss HANA Board member I'd like to know where you were when all this was going on. You certainly have time to knock your favorite HANA member but not the time to stick up for Horseplayers when it comes to what happened at Gulfstream, or that Fabulous Frank ducked the takeout question. I guess those things take a back seat to your hatred of me. After all what's more important knocking anymays or sticking up for your other 1399 members?



I will have you know I was typing something up on this very issue earlier today. Just because I don't start a few thousand threads on Pace Advantage does not mean that I am sitting on my hands and not doing anything. There is a tremendous amount that goes on behind the scenes. But I thank you for you kind comments about what I should be doing with my time.

[andymays]

I will have you know I was typing something up on this very issue earlier today. Just because I don't start a few thousand threads on Pace Advantage does not mean that I am sitting on my hands and not doing anything. There is a tremendous amount that goes on behind the scenes. But I thank you for you kind comments about what I should be doing with my time.


As usual you started the dust up. Sorry for the inconvenience. I guess you'll never stop playing the victim card when it helps you. :ThmbDown:

You certainly had time to jump in and help Fabulous Frank and bash me before you got to Gulfstream. How's that?

[Greyfox]

Since my favorite HANA Board member has chosen to knock me I guess I'll have to respond again. After all this happens every month or two.

Geez, I'd say you are reading too deeply into miesques comments. They are made too the board not you personally, IMO.

[andymays]

Geez, I'd say you are reading too deeply into miesques comments. They are made too the board not you personally, IMO.


You'd be wrong on that Greyfox. Check the record. A moderator even had to delete a couple of her posts about me. For the record she did apologize. ;)

[Show Me the Wire]

Show some sense andymays. You want Stronach to perceive HANA and handicappers as legitimate sources of input, yet you and others refer to him as a lunatic. What sane person would perceive people or organizations that endorse name calling or the view calling him nuts and incompetent will perceive such name callers or opinionated organizations as a legitimate input source? None.

miesque is demonstrating some common sense and business acumen.

[andymays]

Show some sense andymays. You want Stronach to perceive HANA and handicappers as legitimate sources of input, yet you and others refer to him as a lunatic. What sane person would perceive people or organizations that endorse name calling or the view calling him nuts and incompetent will perceive such name callers or opinionated organizations as a legitimate input source? None.

miesque is demonstrating some common sense and business acumen.

Here comes the victim stuff. :lol:

Read the articles over the weekend and then listen to the interview. Then come back and comment. The fact is that most people agree with me about Stronach.

Let me get this straight the guy screws Horseplayers at Gulfstream and then won't address takeout issues and you want me to be nice to the man? It aint gonna happen in this life.

[Show Me the Wire]

[/SIZE][/B]

Here comes the victim stuff. :lol:

Read the articles over the weekend and then listen to the interview. Then come back and comment. The fact is that most people agree with me about Stronach.

Let me get this straight the guy screws Horseplayers at Gulfstream and then won't address takeout issues and you want me to be nice to the man? It aint gonna happen in this life.

I don't want anything, you do and who is playing the victim?

Fact, something you usually ignore, is Stronach owns the track and sets policies. You want to negotiate with him to convince him to change policies. Calling the man names and saying he is a lunatic will not move your agenda forward.

No person, except a real lunatic, would respond in a positive manner to any input offered from some one hurling insults.

The real victim is the credibility of any attempted input, due to loony ideas of what behavior encourages negotiations.

[andymays]

I don't want anything, you do and who is playing the victim?

Fact, something you usually ignore, is Stronach owns the track and sets policies. You want to negotiate with him to convince him to change policies. Calling the man names and saying he is a lunatic will not move your agenda forward.

No person, except a real lunatic, would respond in a positive manner to any input offered from some one hurling insults.

The only victim is credibility of your input, due to loony ideas of what behavior encourages negotiations.


SMTW did you listen to the interview and read the articles? You have a habit of commenting without doing that stuff.

As far as me negoitiating with Fabulous Frank :lol:

Listen to the interview and read the articles. :lol:

[Show Me the Wire]

SMTW did you listen to the interview and read the articles? You have a habit of commenting without doing that stuff.

As far as me negoitiating with Fabulous Frank :lol:

Listen to the interview and read the articles. :lol:

You just don't get it, do you? HANA wants to be seen as a responsible and credible organization that is invited to take part of the policy setting process.
Encouraging name calling is not an ideal way to be held in esteem as an organization.

Your tactics are akin to a lynch mob, instead of a responsible partner.

Never mind.

Maybe I am wrong and HANA wants to be associated with polls and people encouraging name calling as negotiation techniques. Maybe some HANA board member may want to correct me.

[andymays]

You just don't get it, do you? HANA wants to be seen as a responsible and credible organization that is invited to take part of the policy setting process.
Encouraging name calling is not an ideal way to be held in esteem as an organization.

Your tactics are akin to a lynch mob, instead of a responsible partner.

Never mind.

Maybe I am wrong and HANA wants to be associated with polls and people encouraging name calling as negotiation techniques. Maybe some HANA board member may want to correct me.


I didn't ask HANA to participate in the poll or the thread. Why would I ask and why would they participate?

It is interesting that a HANA board member would take the time to knock me and this thread instead of addressing the Gulfsteam incident. :confused:

[DeanT]

There is a letter being penned to Florida racing about changing their rules, on behalf of the HANA members. They clearly have a leg to stand on in this, so the tracks should know. We would be glad to work with them if they need anything from us to rectify the issue that happened on Saturday at GP. They seem eager to fix it, which is a good thing!

As for Frank, I am not sure, but in my opinion it says a lot about the racing business. An immigrant who can barely speak the language starts a billion dollar auto parts company in his basement in the 1950's; but he can not survive in racing. Maybe it is all Frank's fault, I don't know, but I think the evidence is there that racing in general is more of a problem than Frank is.

JMO!

[miesque]

As usual you started the dust up. Sorry for the inconvenience. I guess you'll never stop playing the victim card when it helps you. :ThmbDown:

You certainly had time to jump in and help Fabulous Frank and bash me before you got to Gulfstream. How's that?

Wow, I am really happy to read that you think you know my schedule and what I did all day better then I do. I guess I finally found my first stalker. Its a shame you aren't a very good one, your timeline needs a bit of work. :D

[andymays]

Wow, I am really happy to read that you think you know my schedule and what I did all day better then I do. I guess I finally found my first stalker. Its a shame you aren't a very good one. :D


Who started this thread anyway?

Who jumped in to knock the author of the thread anyway?

Who's stalking who? :lol:

[Show Me the Wire]

I didn't ask HANA to participate in the poll or the thread. Why would I ask and why would they participate?

It is interesting that a HANA board member would take the time to knock me and this thread instead of addressing the Gulfsteam incident. :confused:

To distance themselves from your type of polls. HANA is intertwined with PA and what is posted here reflects on the credibility of its membership and leaders.

They understand name calling and ridicule are not the best instruments of negotiations.

[andymays]

To distance themselves from your type of polls. HANA is intertwined with PA and what is posted here reflects on the credibility of its membership and leaders.

They understand name calling and ridicule are not the best instruments of negotiations.


OK, now I understand!

[castaway01]

There is a letter being penned to Florida racing about changing their rules, on behalf of the HANA members. They clearly have a leg to stand on in this, so the tracks should know. We would be glad to work with them if they need anything from us to rectify the issue that happened on Saturday at GP. They seem eager to fix it, which is a good thing!

As for Frank, I am not sure, but in my opinion it says a lot about the racing business. An immigrant who can barely speak the language starts a billion dollar auto parts company in his basement in the 1950's; but he can not survive in racing. Maybe it is all Frank's fault, I don't know, but I think the evidence is there that racing in general is more of a problem than Frank is.

JMO!

I see you show up on the thread Deano, but is HANA endorsing AndyMays and is he speaking for you? I know he'll call me a stalker because I dare to post on one of the 1000 threads he starts, but what can you do? All he has is free time.

[johnhannibalsmith]

For the benefit of all of those that can't decipher who represents HANA and who just posts an opinon... and I suppose for those that don't realize that HANA has its own site as well as a forum on Pace Advantage - I sugggest you take a look at this thread from the HANA forum.

http://www.paceadvantage.com/forum/showthread.php?t=62725

My God... If everything that is posted on Pace Advantage is somehow going to reflect on HANA...

[andymays]

I see you show up on the thread Deano, but is HANA endorsing AndyMays and is he speaking for you? I know he'll call me a stalker because I dare to post on one of the 1000 threads he starts, but what can you do? All he has is free time.


Castaway01 I am not a HANA board member and have not represented myself as such. Miesque is a HANA board member.

Castaway01 I enjoy the back and forth but I will always respond to a personal attack. That's just me. If you think that's wrong then ignore me.

[Show Me the Wire]

.............My God... If everything that is posted on Pace Advantage is somehow going to reflect on HANA...

All elephants are gray, but not everything that is gray is an elephant.

I would think a certain type of poll on a site, consisting of the type of posters HANA claims to represent, and where HANA has its own forum would reflect on HANA and about the people it claims to represent.

It seems miesque is the only HANA member exhibiting any sense, in questioning the existence of such a poll.

[andymays]

Jay Hovdey

03/02/2010

FRANKLY

"I'm not threatening."

http://hovdeyblog.drf.com/hovdeyblog/

Excerpt:

How did California get to this point? You can track the time line backwards over the past decade and find any number of forks in the road taken by California's racing leaders. Yes, it would have been swell in 1999 if a partnership of California-based owners had been able to purchase Santa Anita from Meditrust, rather than an Austro-Canadian auto parts manufacturer with no experience in running a racetrack. Yes, the California Horse Racing Board should have looked a little harder at rubber-stamping the sale of Hollywood Park by Churchill Downs to a development company that was already tearing down pieces of Bay Meadows. And yes, the interests that promoted the installation of synthetic surfaces--representing horsemen, management and the California Horse Racing Board--should have given the technology a better test drive under Southern California's unique climactic conditions before a wholesale commitment to the technology.

[miesque]

I have a few questions that I would like those who are reading this thread to ask themselves (and I am being dead serious) looking at everything from the macro level with the goal of trying to improve the status quo. Have you ever wondered why the disconnect (“out of touch”) between racing management/authorities and its customers is so great and much more so then in most other industries? I have been doing so for a bit and wondering how it got this bad and as with everything in racing there is no one simple answer due to the complex nature of the industry and there are several reasons (for example, the prominent “us versus them” mentality that is rife through the industry is one reason). That said, I do know that nothing is ever a one way street with these sorts of issues even though most of the traffic may flow in one direction. Keeping that in mind, if you were on the other side, what type of criticism would you take seriously and what would you summarily dismiss and tune out and how much would it take for you to give up figuring out what your customer wants and tune out all together? How hard would you work to address a concern if you constantly got e-mails laced with insults with imbecile being the nicest? Please be honest with yourself when you think about that. There are a lot of legitimate grievances out there for horseplayers and the reason I made the comments I did at the beginning of the thread is that too often I see well crafted criticisms, sometimes complete with rationale possible fixes, get drown out in a sea of overly negative, combative, scathing comments. This board is a great snapshot of this and it’s a public board so everybody knows what is going on.



Now I know somebody will now post that I am an apologist for the Dark Side and that is most certainly not the intent. The intent and the reason why I have dedicated so much time to HANA is that there are so many things that need to be dramatically improved and one necessary ingredient to that occurring happens to be that there needs to be better communications flow back and forth between horseplayers and the rest of the racing industry which will hopefully lead to greater cooperation and progress. Its not going to be easy and smooth sailing, but then again that's life. Now there are those who are obviously not happy with the way things are (and in many circumstances have a right to be) and are in constant Molatov Cocktail attack mode. Since they don’t have to clean up or are responsible for the resulting messes and really do not care if the situation gets worse, they keep concentrating on blowing up things until everything is the way they want it. Personally, me, myself and I, do not think this is an effective strategy for industry growth or improved conditions for anybody, but there are obviously those who do and want as many as possible to think the same and act in the same manner. Maybe I am tainted from too many years in Model UN in high school and college that I think a more diplomatic approach is the best way to proceed with the ultimate goal of success even though it is time consuming and tedious and there are a ton of road blocks.

I am sure the above will be lambasted and criticized, have fun.

[andymays]

Miesque, what you say makes sense but you want it both ways.

If you get nasty with someone it's OK. If someone else does and you don't agree then you want them banned. If you want people to follow you then set an example instead of rewriting history and trying to have it both ways.

Other than that carry on! ;)

[andymays]

The best example I can give everyone is the example of Jerry Jam. This guy owns over 100 horses and won't race in California anymore because of the people that run it. Just about every time he gets in a beef with the CHRB he wins and wins big because he is right and has the facts on his side.

Jerry went through the normal channels going to meetings and being polite even though the meeting were rigged and the decisions were already made. Jeff P experienced that when he went to the last CHRB meeting. After a while Jerry had enough and got agressive with them and fought for what he believed in instead of laying down for them. They ridiculed him and attacked him but time has proven Jerry Jam to be right. He also sticks up for Horseplayers and is against high takeout.

That's the best example of what we know they get in California. They don't respect weakness and if you show it they will dismiss you out of hand. If you go through the normal channels the system is rigged against you. Jeff P found that out the hard way even though he gained a lot of respect for trying.

Just Sayin. ;)

[Show Me the Wire]

The best example I can give everyone is the example of Jerry Jam. This guy owns over 100 horses and won't race in California anymore because of the people that run it. Just about every time he gets in a beef with the CHRB he wins and wins big because he is right and has the facts on his side.

Jerry went through the normal channels going to meetings and being polite even though the meeting were rigged and the decisions were already made. Jeff P experienced that when he went to the last CHRB meeting. After a while Jerry had enough and got agressive with them and fought for what he believed in instead of laying down for them. They ridiculed him and attacked him but time has proven Jerry Jam to be right. He also sticks up for Horseplayers and is against high takeout.

That's the best example of what we know they get in California. They don't respect weakness and if you show it they will dismiss you out of hand. If you go through the normal channels the system is rigged against you. Jeff P found that out the hard way even though he gained a lot of respect for trying.

Just Sayin. ;)

Best example you have given. Jerry Jam didn't like their decisions or the way they operated, so he moved on and left the situation behind. Maybe you should consider the great example Jerry Jam set, let it go and leave Cali racing for greener pastures.

Leave the situation behind, and move on to other circuits, you and Fabulous Frank ;) will be happier in the long run, just like Jerry Jam.

[andymays]

Best example you have given. Jerry Jam didn't like their decisions or the way they operated, so he moved on and left the situation behind. Maybe you should consider the great example Jerry Jam set, let it go and leave Cali racing for greener pastures.

Leave the situation behind, and move on to other circuits, you and Fabulous Frank ;) will be happier in the long run, just like Jerry Jam.


You know something SMTW he has told me the same thing many times. :ThmbUp:

[proximity]

sure mr stronach is a great auto parts man, a great horse breeder, and a great brewer of energy drinks. and i'm sorry that he was a victim of california's synthetic track mandate.....

BUT...frank stronach deserves this thread.

because this thread isn't about auto parts, breeding, or energy drink brewing. it is about racetrack ownership and as a track owner mr stronach has pretty much been a failure..... but here is a chance to step up and be a "hero" and develop some goodwill with both horsemen and fans... and what does mr stronach do????

he tucks his tail and drones on about free enterprise. :rolleyes:

when is this guy going to learn to rise to an occasion?

does anyone see a pattern developing with this guy?

remember in maryland when it was time to submit the applications for the slots licenses?

this was a beachball lobbed over the center of the plate for maryland racing to hit out of the park, but frank stepped out of the batter's box. five licenses available, six applicants..... and mr stronach is the only one who doesn't submit the licensing fee. "the fee isn't constitutional" (or something similar) was maryland's "free enterprise." :rolleyes:

[hibiscus]

sure mr stronach is a great auto parts man, a great horse breeder, and a great brewer of energy drinks. and i'm sorry that he was a victim of california's synthetic track mandate.....

BUT...frank stronach deserves this thread.

because this thread isn't about auto parts, breeding, or energy drink brewing. it is about racetrack ownership and as a track owner mr stronach has pretty much been a failure..... but here is a chance to step up and be a "hero" and develop some goodwill with both horsemen and fans... and what does mr stronach do????

he tucks his tail and drones on about free enterprise. :rolleyes:

when is this guy going to learn to rise to an occasion?

does anyone see a pattern developing with this guy?

remember in maryland when it was time to submit the applications for the slots licenses?

this was a beachball lobbed over the center of the plate for maryland racing to hit out of the park, but frank stepped out of the batter's box. five licenses available, six applicants..... and mr stronach is the only one who doesn't submit the licensing fee. "the fee isn't constitutional" (or something similar) was maryland's "free enterprise." :rolleyes:

The common denominator to both of your examples is Magna writing a big check. Hard to do that when you’re in bankruptcy. I’m no fan of Frank or synthetic surfaces. Have not been for a long long time. However fun it is to bash Frank, we need to exercise some form of common sense and the bottom line is that Magna is tapped out. As such it’s logical to conclude that only an irrational person WOULD replace the track at a cost of $8MM to $10MM. That’s the sad truth.

Moyers Pond should be coming out of the woodwork right about now hammering me by implying that this post is some form of biased NYRA advocation. :lol:

[andymays]

The common denominator to both of your examples is Magna writing a big check. Hard to do that when you’re in bankruptcy. I’m no fan of Frank or synthetic surfaces. Have not been for a long long time. However fun it is to bash Frank, we need to exercise some form of common sense and the bottom line is that Magna is tapped out. As such it’s logical to conclude that only an irrational person WOULD replace the track at a cost of $8MM to $10MM. That’s the sad truth.


Your're right about the money. The thing is that when Roger Stein asked him about takeout the way he responded sure sounded like he's gonna try to get the money from Horseplayers with a raise in the take. Maybe I'm wrong but it sure sounded like it.

[hibiscus]

Your're right about the money. The thing is that when Roger Stein asked him about takeout the way he responded sure sounded like he's gonna try to get the money from Horseplayers with a raise in the take. Maybe I'm wrong but it sure sounded like it.

Maybe he’ll install some Horse Wizards and raise the needed capital that way.:D

[proximity]

and the bottom line is that Magna is tapped out....

having a synthetic track forced upon him may have been unforseen, but in the maryland situation mr stronach should have planned ahead. why did he get involved there in the first place?

anyhow you're right that magna being tapped out is the bottom line and as such mr stronach needs to get out of the track ownership business COMPLETELY.

[andymays]

Maybe he’ll install some Horse Wizards and raise the needed capital that way.:D


The problems in California have been brewing for a long time and bad decisions going back decades are to blame. The surface is an issue for Most Trainers and Horseplayers but it is not at the root of what is wrong. Fabulous Frank has made a ton of bad decisions as well and he should have been worried about the money four years ago.

The interview and the articles and the quotes in them say it all for me.

Santa Anita is getting closer and closer to being a museum with a petting zoo.

[Greyfox]

mr stronach needs to get out of the track ownership business COMPLETELY.

Careful of what you wish for. Stronach may be different but he is a fan of racing. The next owner might not be.

[proximity]

Careful of what you wish for. Stronach may be different but he is a fan of racing. The next owner might not be.


it seems to me there have been several "fans of racing" interested in the maryland bidding.... and some of them may even be able to afford a slots license!!

anyhow i'd hope to see owners instead of just a single owner of all of these magna tracks. too much power in the hands of this one man.

[Horseplayersbet.com]

Careful of what you wish for. Stronach may be different but he is a fan of racing. The next owner might not be.
Anyone who buys a racetrack from here on in has to have a plan, and has to think out of the box.
The exception is if a track is bought on the possibility that another form of gambling is just around the corner.

[Greyfox]

Anyone who buys a racetrack from here on in has to have a plan, and has to think out of the box.
.

Buying a race track for other reasons can be a plan too.
Yes, I know SA is zoned for horse racing. Zoning bylaws aren't in stone.

[Horseplayersbet.com]

Buying a race track for other reasons can be a plan too.
Yes, I know SA is zoned for horse racing. Zoning bylaws aren't in stone.
I don't like saying this, but if pricing doesn't come down, then we have do have too many racetracks.

[Bettowin]

Anyone who buys a racetrack from here on in has to have a plan, and has to think out of the box.
The exception is if a track is bought on the possibility that another form of gambling is just around the corner.


IMO, most of the track purchases (dog and horses) were done so betting that some other form of gambling would get approved and when it didn't the owners are left with a loser. Goes back to like you said about having a plan. I think their short term plan was to get slots or some other gambling with the long term plan to phase out racing once slots were in place. Just like what is happening in Iowa now.

[Greyfox]

I don't like saying this, but if pricing doesn't come down, then we have do have too many racetracks.

Probably true, but Santa Anita, Hollywood, and Del Mar aren't among those too many in my mind.

[Tom]

As far as the GP off turf race, it was the jockeys who refused to ride.
Don't blame the track. The law in Florida determined how the bets were handled. The law needs to be changed. GP had no options Saturday.

As far as Frank, seriously, Andy, you don't like it but answer me this.....it is his money that will go to change the surface. Do you think it is HANA's business to tell him how to spend it? It is not like them representing the players in take outs and things like that. My personal hope is Saturday gets cancelled agian, on Big Cap Day, and the res-scheduled Sham. Serve them right. But I am not asking HANA to support me on this. :bang:

[andymays]

As far as the GP off turf race, it was the jockeys who refused to ride.
Don't blame the track. The law in Florida determined how the bets were handled. The law needs to be changed. GP had no options Saturday.

As far as Frank, seriously, Andy, you don't like it but answer me this.....it is his money that will go to change the surface. Do you think it is HANA's business to tell him how to spend it? It is not like them representing the players in take outs and things like that. My personal hope is Saturday gets cancelled agian, on Big Cap Day, and the res-scheduled Sham. Serve them right. But I am not asking HANA to support me on this. :bang:

I didn't bring up the surface in the thread except in post #4 where I said this:

"I also think that racing surface aside even the Pro Ride advocates are shaking their heads today".


The surface was referred to in the initial article by Wilson.


As far as HANA goes I never said HANA should tell him what to do with his money. I don't know where you got that one. The only thing HANA had to do with this thread is that Miesque is a HANA board member.

C'mon Tom! :D

[Dahoss9698]

As far as the GP off turf race, it was the jockeys who refused to ride.
Don't blame the track. The law in Florida determined how the bets were handled. The law needs to be changed. GP had no options Saturday.



While you are correct that it is the state that determines how the bets were handled, this is not a new problem. This same thing happened 3 years ago and it is Gulfstream's responsibility to push to get the laws changed. To my knowledge they have done nothing of the sort. If someone knows different, please speak up.

[Relwob Owner]

http://www.rogerstein.com/radio/archive2.asp

Roger Stein show - Archived shows

Stronach Interview on 2-27


2-28 show--Response to emails about Frank Stronach and other stuff. Really good show.



Andy,

As always, your enthusiasm in your cause is terrific. I think that you and Miesque have different styles in terms of how you would go about making changes happen and I would tend to fall on her side in terms of how to go about it.... reading her posts, she seems to have a strong level of experience and intelligence....it is too bad you guys are going at each other but that is how it goes.....

As far as Stronach goes, his situation seems like a common one: a guy makes a fortune in a particular business and then thinks that expertise will work in other ventures. He is living proof that isnt true. He botched Maryland and seems to totally misunderstand(as many others have) where horse racing is and where it is going(or not going).

Thus, I think if you are going to have a poll, there needs to be another option because I cant answer "yes" for either.....There are tons of people like him in the business world. I wouldnt call him a wackadoo, just overconfident and misguided IMO

[Stillriledup]

Its obvious that Stronach's family, close friends and employees read PA. How else could you explain the 8 votes? :bang:

[Greyfox]

Its obvious that Stronach's family, close friends and employees read PA. How else could you explain the 8 votes? :bang:

Fact:
1. I haven't cast a vote...yet.
2. I'm not part of his family.
3. I've never met the man.
4. I'm not and never have been an employee of any of his enterprises.
5. What I've seen of him, is a turn off, a pompous "My Way or the Highway Type."

As I haven't cast a vote yet, I have no idea on what this poll on this thread is reporting for figs except you mentioned 8.
What I will say though is.

1. He has a lot more "flesh" in this game than me....and probably you.
2. His ideas on "Free Enterprise" maybe what HPB was asking when he referred to "Thinking Outside the Box.

The longer that this thread goes, the more I'm moved to consider,
maybe Stronach is ahead of the curve.
Stronach bought the track. He was then ordered to spend $$$Millions
resurfacing it. Now he has to spend millions again to resurface it again.
Gimme a break Jake.

I'm sorry, but much as I have no fondness for Stronach or his miserable daughter (who is something else), he may have some good ideas here. He ain't stupid.

[Horseplayersbet.com]

I think Stronach does not come close to understanding the customer.
He had a great opportunity with the fleet of tracks he had to grow the game significantly by reducing takeouts on all his tracks (if he really got it, that is what he would have done).
Instead he planted lots of trees believing that people would go if the track looked beautiful enough.

His latest interview proves he has not changed.
He has a vision of how he wants the horseplayer to be, but it is nowhere close to what the horseplayer is.

[Greyfox]

I think Stronach does not come close to understanding the customer.
He had a great opportunity with the fleet of tracks he had to grow the game significantly by reducing takeouts on all his tracks (if he really got it, that is what he would have done).
Instead he planted lots of trees believing that people would go if the track looked beautiful enough.

His latest interview proves he has not changed.
He has a vision of how he wants the horseplayer to be, but it is nowhere close to what the horseplayer is.

So?

[Stillriledup]

Why won't Stronach file a lawsuit to try and recoup the money he was forced to spend on this surface? Whoever mandated this surface be installed should be sued and Stronach should be able to get a free dirt surface installed as part of him winning the lawsuit.

[Bettowin]

Why won't Stronach file a lawsuit to try and recoup the money he was forced to spend on this surface? Whoever mandated this surface be installed should be sued and Stronach should be able to get a free dirt surface installed as part of him winning the lawsuit.

Good luck suing the Government.

[andymays]

Fact:
1. I haven't cast a vote...yet.
2. I'm not part of his family.
3. I've never met the man.
4. I'm not and never have been an employee of any of his enterprises.
5. What I've seen of him, is a turn off, a pompous "My Way or the Highway Type."

As I haven't cast a vote yet, I have no idea on what this poll on this thread is reporting for figs except you mentioned 8.
What I will say though is.

1. He has a lot more "flesh" in this game than me....and probably you.
2. His ideas on "Free Enterprise" maybe what HPB was asking when he referred to "Thinking Outside the Box.

The longer that this thread goes, the more I'm moved to consider,
maybe Stronach is ahead of the curve.
Stronach bought the track. He was then ordered to spend $$$Millions
resurfacing it. Now he has to spend millions again to resurface it again.
Gimme a break Jake.

I'm sorry, but much as I have no fondness for Stronach or his miserable daughter (who is something else), he may have some good ideas here. He ain't stupid.


Magna seeks additional bankruptcy financing - baltimoresun.com

http://www.baltimoresun.com/business/bal-bz.digest030mar03,0,1323349.story?track=rss&utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+baltimoresun%2Fbusiness%2Frss 2+%28Top+business%29

Excerpt:

DOVER, Del. - Magna Entertainment Corp. says it needs additional debtor-in-possession financing as it works to emerge from Chapter 11 bankruptcy. Canada's Magna, the largest horse track owner in the United States, previously reached agreements with a subsidiary of its parent, MI Developments, for $64.4 million in financing. But Magna, which filed a reorganization plan two weeks ago, says it is facing liquidity issues because of an unexpected decline in horse racing revenues and weather-related race cancellations at Santa Anita Park in California. Magna is seeking court approval for $7 million more in financing from MI Developments to see it through the effective date of its reorganization plan. A Delaware judge is expected to consider the request at a hearing Wednesday. The company owns Laurel Park, Pimlico Race Course and the Preakness Triple Crown.

[andymays]

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/sports_blog/2010/03/say-what-santa-anita-isnt-getting-rid-of-proride.html

Excerpt:


Either Stronach is bluffing or he's making himself look like a fool. And he's the guy who's running Magna Entertainment Corp., which filed for bankruptcy protection last year.

I thought the racing business was in trouble, but after this weekend, I'd say it's headed for a crash. The California Horse Racing Board isn't going to listen to threats. If Santa Anita doesn't take care of its track problems, the CHRB will simply award more racing dates to Hollywood Park.

Santa Anita is perhaps the best, most-liked track by fans in Southern California, but not for long if the boss doesn't act to fix his track's problems.

[Greyfox]

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/sports_blog/2010/03/say-what-santa-anita-isnt-getting-rid-of-proride.html


If Santa Anita doesn't take care of its track problems, the CHRB will simply award more racing dates to Hollywood Park.

.

How long can they rely on Hollywood Park being available ??

[andymays]

How long can they rely on Hollywood Park being available ??


Probably not long but who knows? California is a mess but I don't think people realize the extent of the mess.

Everyone expected Fabulous Frank to come in and make thing clear. Instead they got more confusion and instability. Don't be surprised to see more horses shipping to other venues as a statement by disgruntled Trainers. The more I think about it Fabulous Frank is going to have to make a decision sooner than he wants too. The Roger Stein show will be interesting this weekend.

[fmolf]

In my opinion stronach has the right idea.There is too much racing country wide and if the whole of horse racing were deregulated then only the strong would survive!Obviously he feels that he should be able to race year round which would basically shut down the fairs and golden gate.....Delmar may survive just because of its location on the beach!Would that be so wrong?year round quality racing 4 or 5 days a week on an upgraded dirt surface at the great race place?
I wish NYRA(my home circuit would get rid of racing at aqueduct and race year round at belmont...that is where the casino should go not aqueduct!NYRA is almost as bad as CHRB in my opinion.

[Stillriledup]

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/sports_blog/2010/03/say-what-santa-anita-isnt-getting-rid-of-proride.html

Excerpt:


Either Stronach is bluffing or he's making himself look like a fool. And he's the guy who's running Magna Entertainment Corp., which filed for bankruptcy protection last year.

I thought the racing business was in trouble, but after this weekend, I'd say it's headed for a crash. The California Horse Racing Board isn't going to listen to threats. If Santa Anita doesn't take care of its track problems, the CHRB will simply award more racing dates to Hollywood Park.

Santa Anita is perhaps the best, most-liked track by fans in Southern California, but not for long if the boss doesn't act to fix his track's problems.

Stronach is looking like a fool with his pants on the ground.

[andymays]

http://www.insidesocal.com/horseracing/2010/03/dont-despair-race-fans-things.html

Excerpt:

* Upon returning home from a trip to California in which he managed to alienate the California Horse Racing Board, confound horsemen and perhaps shock the media with his announcement that he would not soon be replacing a Santa Anita track that on occasion resembles a lake more than a racing surface, Frank Stronach sent signals to the powers that be that he will indeed be replacing the track, for officials to continue searching for a suitable replacement. It appears Stronach might be doing a little posturing, seeking some concessions and perhaps financial help in laying down the new surface. He knows Santa Anita needs a new surface, and sooner rather than later. Now when that happens is anybody's guess, but Stronach believes the new track can be laid down in eight weeks and it's still a good bet that Santa Anita will have a new traditional dirt surface by the beginning of the Oak Tree meet.

[Indulto]

AM,
It must have been this thread.;)

[andymays]

AM,
It must have been this thread.;)

This thread was pure evil. ;) And then some. ;)

Jerry Jam thinks Stronach is smarter than we think in this case. Maybe he's right.

[BIG49010]

I think he is a crook, and some kind of weird control freak. Honest corporations don't generally have several types of voting stock, where Magna always has.

Anybody that continues to do business with him, good luck to them, because it will end badly.

[andymays]

http://www.thoroughbredtimes.com/national-news/2010/March/19/CHRB-approves-request-for%20Hollywood-Park-meeting.aspx

Excerpt:

“If you thought things were adversarial before, you haven’t seen anything yet,” said Keith Brackpool, the CHRB’s relatively new no-nonsense chairman.

The CHRB has filed an objection to the company’s reorganization plan that includes using a portion of pari-mutuel wagering pools to help pay off its debts. This appears to be a double whammy to satellite wagering sites that are among MEC’s creditors.

In filing the objection, Brackpool pointed out the satellite sites would be “receiving pennies on the dollar.”

“This involves more than $3 million, which California horse racing desperately needs,” Brackpool said.

As for the MEC bankruptcy filing in general, board member John Harris took a shot at Frank Stronach, who oversees the empire that now operates under Magna International Developments and its many subsidiaries.

“Frank Stronach is always emphasizing free enterprise,” Harris said. “Hiding behind bankruptcy laws is not the best example of free enterprise.”

[Horseplayersbet.com]

http://www.thoroughbredtimes.com/national-news/2010/March/19/CHRB-approves-request-for%20Hollywood-Park-meeting.aspx

Excerpt:

“If you thought things were adversarial before, you haven’t seen anything yet,” said Keith Brackpool, the CHRB’s relatively new no-nonsense chairman.

The CHRB has filed an objection to the company’s reorganization plan that includes using a portion of pari-mutuel wagering pools to help pay off its debts. This appears to be a double whammy to satellite wagering sites that are among MEC’s creditors.

In filing the objection, Brackpool pointed out the satellite sites would be “receiving pennies on the dollar.”

“This involves more than $3 million, which California horse racing desperately needs,” Brackpool said.

As for the MEC bankruptcy filing in general, board member John Harris took a shot at Frank Stronach, who oversees the empire that now operates under Magna International Developments and its many subsidiaries.

“Frank Stronach is always emphasizing free enterprise,” Harris said. “Hiding behind bankruptcy laws is not the best example of free enterprise.”
Apparently a few ADWs were affected by the bankruptcy too (not 100% sure). Again, we are talking about the public's betting money that was lumped in with unsecured creditors.

I can't believe that Stronach still has a seat at the table. He needs to be pensioned.

[andymays]

Apparently a few ADWs were affected by the bankruptcy too (not 100% sure). Again, we are talking about the public's betting money that was lumped in with unsecured creditors.

I can't believe that Stronach still has a seat at the table. He needs to be pensioned.


He's gonna cause the old guard in California some serious heartburn before this is over. It's hard to know who to pull for since I have serious problems with both sides. I don't think either side gives any respect to Horseplayers.

[Horseplayersbet.com]

He's gonna cause the old guard in California some serious heartburn before this is over. It's hard to know who to pull for since I have serious problems with both sides. I don't think either side gives any respect to Horseplayers.
Anything that says settlement on this list, are due to settlements of wagers.
http://www.paulickreport.com/blog/magna-details-revenue-employees-and-creditors/

I don't understand how a judge can consider that money to unsecured. NYRA even got stung.

What the judges rulings did is give Stronach the ability not to have to have sold off the racetrack immediately.

[andymays]

Anything that says settlement on this list, are due to settlements of wagers.
http://www.paulickreport.com/blog/magna-details-revenue-employees-and-creditors/

I don't understand how a judge can consider that money to unsecured. NYRA even got stung.

What the judges rulings did is give Stronach the ability not to have to have sold off the racetrack immediately.


Amazing stuff.

[Stillriledup]

62-14

[InsideThePylons-MW]

62-14

46-10 .........after takeout and breakage

[Greyfox]

Frank has more "skin" in this game than anyone who has posted on this board.

List your problems.

[Stillriledup]

Frank has more "skin" in this game than anyone who has posted on this board.

List your problems.

He's also taken more (pounds of) flesh than anyone here too.

[andymays]

The Business of Racing: Betrayal in Maryland
http://businessofracing.blogspot.com/2010/03/betrayal-in-maryland.html

Excerpt:

As I've pointed out earlier, MI developments is a real estate holding company, and its minority shareholders are anything but happy with Stronach's use of their money to support his race track habit. With Frank once again pledging other people's money to settle his debts, I wonder if there'll be a new shareholder revolt.

The Maryland deal stinks. There were other bidders prepared to offer up to $100 million in cash, and, right up until the close of business yesterday, Stronach's lawyers were lying to them and saying that the auction was going forward. In the class that I teach at Touro Law School, I just yesterday went over the provisions of the Rules of Professional Responsibility about lying to others when you're a lawyer. Maybe I should have my students draft a complaint to the relevant authorities

[Tampa Russ]

Yanked by Frank...what a shocker!

[proximity]

In the class that I teach at Touro Law School,

:eek:

synthetic law 101??

[proximity]

The Maryland deal stinks. There were other bidders prepared to offer up to $100 million in cash, and, right up until the close of business yesterday, Stronach's lawyers were lying to them and saying that the auction was going forward.

guess maryland players won't be getting any breaks anytime soon.....:mad:

[cj]

Frank is an idiot when it comes to owning racetracks.

[bisket]

they paid off defrancis, and still have the tracks :bang:
from drf
http://drf.com/news/article/111635.html
Magna Entertainment Corp. no longer plans to auction its Maryland properties and will instead transfer Laurel Park and Pimlico Race Course to its parent company, according to participants in the auction.

The Maryland tracks were scheduled to go to auction on Thursday, but Magna informed auction participants Tuesday that it would transfer the assets to its parent, MI Developments Corp. Magna submitted the reorganization plan Tuesday to a bankruptcy court, which must approve the new arragnement.

Under the plan, MI Developments, Magna's largest creditor, would also take title to Santa Anita Park and Golden Gate Fields in California, Gulfstream Park and Palm Meadows Training Center in Florida, the bet-processing company AmTote, and the account-wagering company XpressBet, as previously announced in January.
click the link for the rest
defrancis and his sister got 27 mill out of them. now we're stuck with stronach, and the slots will be at the mall and not the track. go figure :rolleyes:

[Saratoga_Mike]

Frank has more "skin" in this game than anyone who has posted on this board.

List your problems.

Relative to his net worth I don't believe that's true. In absolute terms, you're probably correct.

[takeout]

Yanked by Frank...what a shocker!Looks like he got DeFrancis too.
http://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-racing/articles/56036/magna-defrancis-family-reach-settlement

[andymays]

For Maryland horse racing, the refrain stays the same in battle for survival

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/03/24/AR2010032402913.html

Excerpt:

By Andrew Beyer
Thursday, March 25, 2010

"Meet the new boss: Same as the old boss."

That cynical refrain from The Who's 1971 classic "Won't Get Fooled Again" sums up the latest development in Maryland horse racing. When the bankrupt Magna Entertainment Corp. canceled an auction of Laurel and Pimlico and instead transferred the tracks to MI Developments, the deal meant that they moved from one company controlled by Frank Stronach to another controlled by Frank Stronach.

Some of the potential bidders in the auction -- which had been scheduled for Thursday -- might have been viewed as white knights who could have helped the state's thoroughbred business. But because Magna Entertainment has been such a dysfunctional operation, because it was responsible for a disastrous decision that might have doomed Laurel Park by costing it a chance to install slot machines, only a wild-eyed optimist could hold high hopes for a Stronach regime under a different name.

[Igeteven]

If anyone has met him, this I can tell you.

Take this as fact


Nobody is going to tell this man what to.


When one get to a curtain age. One doesn't listen to anyone anymore.


Just facts people

That's why he has to go and move on.

[andymays]

Pimlico, Laurel buyer thinks it can make Md. racing thrive again - baltimoresun.com

http://www.baltimoresun.com/business/bal-bz.magna25mar25,0,2204099.story

Excerpt:

Skeptics say his company is little more than an extension of Magna, which operated the tracks as they neared financial ruin, and question whether MID would do any better. Magna called off an auction of the tracks this week after brokering a deal to sell them to MID. Racing magnate Frank Stronach serves as chairman of both MID and Magna.

Mills also addressed the detractors.

Magna and MID "are two totally different and totally separate public companies," he said. "Yes, we do have the same chairman, but it is a different philosophical approach."

[takeout]

Pimlico, Laurel buyer thinks it can make Md. racing thrive again

21% on exactas and 25&3/4 on tris. Good luck with that. :rolleyes:

[Stillriledup]

If anyone has met him, this I can tell you.

Take this as fact


Nobody is going to tell this man what to.


When one get to a curtain age. One doesn't listen to anyone anymore.


Just facts people

That's why he has to go and move on.


If there's a bigger know it all in all of thoroughbred racing than Frankie energy, you're be hard pressed to find them..

[andymays]

http://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-racing/articles/56840/amtote-hub-locked-up-twice-before-derby

Excerpt:

Some bettors across the country nearly got shut out of the May 1 Kentucky Derby Presented by Yum! Brands (gr. I) when AmTote International’s multi-jurisdictional wagering hub in Portland, Ore., locked up twice within 50 minutes of the Derby’s post time. The outage affected several advanced deposit wagering platforms including TwinsSpires.com, XpressBet, and Youbet.com.



Excerpt:

AmTote is owned by Magna Entertainment Corp ., which also owns XpressBet, Santa Anita Park, Gulfstream Park, Golden Gate Fields, the Maryland Jockey Club (owner of Pimlico and Laurel Park), and Portland Meadows. MEC filed for chapter 11 bankruptcy protection in March 2009. As part of its reorganization it was announced April 30 that AmTote and the racetracks will be transferred to Ontario-based MI Developments (MID). Frank Stronach is chairman of both MEC and MID.

[DJofSD]

So Andy, what do you think this means? Is there a pending action that potentially would mean a sale or loss of control of the race tracks?

[andymays]

So Andy, what do you think this means? Is there a pending action that potentially would mean a sale or loss of control of the race tracks?


Just about everything Fabulous Frank is involved with has problems. His problems always seem to affect a lot of people.

Just a guess but I think he will propose something outrageous in California as far as racing dates and some other things go. Stay tuned. ;)

[Igeteven]

Just about everything Fabulous Frank is involved with has problems. His problems always seem to affect a lot of people.

Just a guess but I think he will propose something outrageous in California as far as racing dates and some other things go. Stay tuned. ;)

If anyone knows a person with his same type make up , he lives in his own world,

If one watches the movie, The Amazing Howard Hughes with Tommie Lee Jones. One will see what I mean.

[andymays]

The big meeting is on June 22nd at Hollywood Park.

Frank will be on center stage.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Bill Christine: Frank Stronach’s Unprepared Remarks

http://www.horseraceinsider.com/west-coast-wash/

Excerpt:

LOS ANGELES, June 15, 2010--A former Magna employee has leaked to me a rough draft of Frank Stronach's opening statement at a meeting of the California Horse Racing Board at Hollywood Park on June 22. Since the leakee does not want to see the leaker wind up hip-high in bilgewater, I had better say that my source was not Lou Raffetto, Joe De Francis, Jim McAlpine, Chris McCarron, Ron Charles, Doug Donn, Rick Cowan, Cliff Goodrich, Corey Johnson, Brant Latta, Jack Liebau, John Perrotta, Lonny Powell, David Romanik, Scott Savin, Donald Amos, Michael Neuman, Thomas Hodgson, Mark Feldman, Jerry Campbell or Ken Dunn. My apologies to the few I have missed.

If the rough draft holds up, Stronach will say something like this:

http://www.horseraceinsider.com/west-coast-wash/

[DJofSD]

Andy, buy a gross dozen tomatoes and resell them to the attendees. You 'll become flush quickly.

[andymays]

Andy, buy a gross dozen tomatoes and resell them to the attendees. You become flush quickly.

Lots of things will be flying at that meeting. Tomatoes would be a big seller.

[kenwoodall2]

Funny stuff!
I think what he will really say is "Anyone who does not like what I am doing to (I mean for!) the racing business I will say what I said as soon as Barbaro broke down at my track at Pimlico- 'That's the way it goes in racing'".

[andymays]

After today's CHRB meeting (6-22) we have to conclude that the majority voted correctly. ;)