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fight
02-26-2010, 08:43 PM
at sa today all top winners .

Light
02-26-2010, 08:57 PM
All chalk :sleeping:

fight
02-26-2010, 09:13 PM
:lol: please dont wake up.

Vinnie
02-26-2010, 09:22 PM
Who would have thought that the first person to weigh in with his sort of trademarked negativity would have been the one that did? :eek:

Handiman
02-27-2010, 01:21 AM
I don't care if they were all chalk. Show me another program that has done this!

The program said this is what would win and it was, period.

Handi:)

Speed Figure
02-27-2010, 02:35 AM
I don't care if they were all chalk. Show me another program that has done this!

The program said this is what would win and it was, period.

Handi:)

Great Job!! :ThmbUp:

Light
02-27-2010, 03:18 AM
You realize that 7 of the 8 were won by the favorite,don't you? The other race was won by the 2nd chalk. Who cares? Everyone knows that the ability of a computer program to pick chalk is not going to get you in the black.

Speed Figure
02-27-2010, 04:51 AM
You realize that 7 of the 8 were won by the favorite,don't you? The other race was won by the 2nd chalk. Who cares? Everyone knows that the ability of a computer program to pick chalk is not going to get you in the black.
Who cares? I would rather get those winners from a free program than one that costs $599, $1000, $1499!!!

newtothegame
02-27-2010, 06:03 AM
You realize that 7 of the 8 were won by the favorite,don't you? The other race was won by the 2nd chalk. Who cares? Everyone knows that the ability of a computer program to pick chalk is not going to get you in the black.

Hmmm...lets see...
8 races.....
on a sole 2 win bet only...
16 dollars invested...
39.60 returned.....
minus 16 dollar investment
23.60 net profit
1.475 ROI
Almost ANY handicapper would kill for that number based on what I have read on this forum......

raybo
02-27-2010, 09:33 AM
You realize that 7 of the 8 were won by the favorite,don't you? The other race was won by the 2nd chalk. Who cares? Everyone knows that the ability of a computer program to pick chalk is not going to get you in the black.

And, if you had bet your picks you would have lost them all. LOL

Bennie
02-27-2010, 10:18 AM
Don't post here often but follow most of them. Everyone is entitled to thier opinion and everyone has "their" way of playing the horses so I take all comments with a grain of salt.
Anyway, let's no forget the rolling DD, the pic3, pic4 and pic6 as well as the place all bets. Looking at these as well, as rounding to save time, based on $2 straight wagers you have $34 out with a return of $800 (rounded).
Now that is a nice return!!!

Trotman
02-27-2010, 10:23 AM
Chalk or not 8 for 8 = 100% in my math, excellent job :ThmbUp:

Partsnut
02-27-2010, 10:28 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Light
You realize that 7 of the 8 were won by the favorite,don't you? The other race was won by the 2nd chalk. Who cares? Everyone knows that the ability of a computer program to pick chalk is not going to get you in the black.


Raybo: And, if you had bet your picks you would have lost them all. LOL :lol:

Ray, why dignify a malcontent. Somebody should turn off the " light".
This guy says and shows nothing meaningful or better.

Handi, 8 out of 8 is an outstanding accomplishment, no matter how you did it.

I thank you, Handi, Head Hawg, Doug Woods and the Duke Of Perl for their efforts, great work and their willingness to share.

Never Look A Gift Horse In The Mouth

lsosa54
02-27-2010, 11:21 AM
I don't care if they were all chalk. Show me another program that has done this!

The program said this is what would win and it was, period.

Handi:)


Not good enough, Handi! Light's program went 10 for 8 on top and the average mutuel was $24.60. Where's The Little Guy? We need some appropriate commentary.

joemc44
02-27-2010, 11:50 AM
good job handi.

lsosa54
02-27-2010, 12:07 PM
Take this in the proper spirit since the program is free and a multitude of free time has been donated, but with the BRIS $1 DRF file, the program missed race 3 and 7 (had Powerofvoodoo and Brushburn on top, respectively) and in race 2, Sidepocket Lou and Get Off The Sugar were tied.

I'm going to assume that Fight is correct and is most likely using the mcp file. I've brought this problem up before but there should be no difference as according to Raybo, the only extra info in the mcp file is the BRIS RR and CR, which Handifast does not use.

I think to truly make this a free, open source, program for the masses, it needs to work similarly with the lowest cost file, esp since the usable information is the same.

The mcp file is $5 a day or $2 each on the silver or gold plan. For someone like myself who can't handicap everyday and basically plays one circuit, the silver or gold plan are not necessary. In addition, I don't need to pay 5 times the cost to get the RR and CR ratings, which I don't use.

5 for 8 cleanly on top make s a big difference in ROI based on the win mutuels yesterday.

Again, I don't know Liberty Basic and have done no programming, and I do understand all this has been done on a volunteer basis.

headhawg
02-27-2010, 12:39 PM
fight uses mcp files. I am also fairly sure that there are some other differences other than the CR and RR. I think that I've posted this before, but during my early testing of HHX I noticed that using mcp files produced ratings in certain columns that the $1 Bris had as zeroes. I may be mistaken -- so I will have to check -- but that's what I remember. If true then the point totals for the horses would indeed be different thus leading to different Top 4 picks.

Also, fight may be using different weights and that may also account for the discrepancy in the picks.

Roger
02-27-2010, 12:44 PM
Great Job Handi..And ....LIGHT'S OUT! It is what it is..Chalk or no Chalk...Light, I don't recall you putting up any of you picks from your Magic Machine...Put up or shut up....Nobody needs to listen to this derogatory crap! :mad:

Robert Goren
02-27-2010, 12:52 PM
Give me a break. The man had eight winners. I don't care if they were 4/5, it is still a heck of a feat. Kudos. I hope you get eight more today. Go get them, Handi.:ThmbUp: :ThmbUp: :ThmbUp:

Light
02-27-2010, 01:01 PM
It's not the program that had 8 for 8,its the public that went 8 for 8 without the program. Now if you are so gaga about this and how you would be buying everyone drinks,then tell me what the programs ROI is with horses on top over a period of time. I guarantee you it is in the red. That's why I wouldn't get a hard on for doing well on one day especially a chalky one.

lsosa54
02-27-2010, 01:04 PM
fight uses mcp files. I am also fairly sure that there are some other differences other than the CR and RR. I think that I've posted this before, but during my early testing of HHX I noticed that using mcp files produced ratings in certain columns that the $1 Bris had as zeroes. I may be mistaken -- so I will have to check -- but that's what I remember. If true then the point totals for the horses would indeed be different thus leading to different Top 4 picks.

Also, fight may be using different weights and that may also account for the discrepancy in the picks.

You're right HH - Fight didn't specify default settings.

Handi: If it's true about those zeros, can you let us know in what columns they occur, so we can at least manually add the points. As I recall, it's just a matter of adding double the points for the top ranked horse and the actual points in a column for the rest?

Viruss
02-27-2010, 01:05 PM
You need to change your name to Darkcloud.:lol:

fast4522
02-27-2010, 01:09 PM
One of the biggest problems with the new Sartin advanced programs is that it always looks like there is something to beat the chalk. Good code should leave one with the feeling that maybe I should just watch this favorite and pass or bet the favorite. I am not a chalk lover by any means, but honesty with what is in the current race is paramount to survival. So if a software logic dictates favorites one day, and bombs the next while taking its share, great!!
I think I have the burnt out bulb pegged correctly, something free and good is not always good for all. Take the previous line as you wish, and if it fits you to a tee TFB and rots of ruck.

Great going!!!!

jonnielu
02-27-2010, 01:10 PM
at sa today all top winners .

I find it terribly interesting, because if someone were there with no form, and no program, asking the guy sweeping the floor which horse was the favorite, he would have gotten one less winner.... amazing.

Hey, other people might not care... but I'm dying to know if it comes out higher then 40% for the week at the end of tomorrow.

jdl

dartman51
02-27-2010, 01:48 PM
If anyone cares, here is how Santa Anita fared with the following 2 programs using MCP files and default settings. As in previous posts, in the MT-6 results I have BOLDED the horses that were BOLDED by the program. For those that may not know, these are horses with a decided advantage over the next closest competitor.

HandiFast HHXv2.1

Race 1
#3 PART TIME LUCK 1.2 200 W

Race 2
#4 SIDEPOCKETLOU 2.1 155 W

Race 3
#6 POWEROFVOODOO 2.1 155 3rd

Race 4
#4 IVORY FUDGE 2.0 160 W

Race 5
#7 KRIS SILVER 2.8 135 W

Race 6
#8 TOTAL BULL 1.6 180 W

Race 7
#8 BRUSHBURN 3.0 130 2nd

Race 8
#8 RENZO SEAN 1.6 180 W


Handi MT-6

Race 1
#3 PART TIME LUCK 1.0 200 W

Race 2
#4 SIDEPOCKETLOU 2.5 155 W
#6 GET OFF THE SUGAR 2.5 155 2nd

Race 3
#4 LULLABYETIME 2.1 195 W

Race 4
#4 IVORY FUDGE 2.0 200 W

Race 5
#7 KRIS SILVER 2.8 185 W

Race 6
#8 TOTAL BULL 1.8 210 W

Race 7
#3 LAMM 2.4 180 3rd

Race 8
#8 RENZO SEAN 1.4 235 W

By any standards, BOTH programs did outstanding. The bottom line is, would you rather cash in on the favorites all day, or play the longshots and come up empty?? :confused: Sorry, I just don't understand the negativity.

Space Monkey
02-27-2010, 02:09 PM
Sometimes you just have to take what the track gives you. Faves one day, longshots the next. The biggest mistake players make is trying to "beat the favorite", when he doesn't figure to be beaten.

Good job Handi :ThmbUp:

dartman51
02-27-2010, 02:46 PM
I find it terribly interesting, because if someone were there with no form, and no program, asking the guy sweeping the floor which horse was the favorite, he would have gotten one less winner.... amazing.

Hey, other people might not care... but I'm dying to know if it comes out higher then 40% for the week at the end of tomorrow.

jdl

Here are the results at Santa Anita begining last Sunday. Using MT-6 and defaults only.

Sunday 2/21/10
R2> #5 NORVSKY W $6,80
R3> #3 UNUSUAL ENCOUNTER W $8.00
R5> #4 LEASE OF LIFE W $4.20

Wednesday 2/24/10
R4> #2 UNDERGROUND W $3.20
R>6 #3 TRIBAL JUSTICE W $9.80

Thursday 2/25/10
R2> #5 WILLIE THE FOX W $8.80
R5> #1 RIDE ALONG W 6.40
R7> #6 BAME IT ON THE WINE W $6.00
R8> #10 DEVIL ON THE ROOF W $3.60

Friday 2/26/10
R1> #3 PART TIME LUCK W $3.60
R2> #4 SIDEPOCKETLOU W $3.8
#6 GET OFF THE SUGAR 2nd
R3> #4 LULLABYETIME W $4.00
R4> #4 IVORY FUDGE W $5.00
R5> #7 KRIS SILVER W $7.60
R6> #8 TOTAL BULL W $5.40
R8> #8 RENZO SEAN W $4.20

2/21 3/9
2/24 2/8
2/25 4/8
2/26 7/9 only 8 races, but I counted race 2 twice for the tie.

So far 16/34 =47%

Invested $68.00
Return $90.20

R.O.I 32.64%

This is NOT using some special formula, just the DEFAULTS that come with the program. My opinion is, that this program would be a BARGAIN at 100 times the price you pay. :ThmbUp:

Say what you want about favorites.... you can't argue with the results.

Handiman
02-27-2010, 04:30 PM
No matter what happens, Light will not be satisfied till a program includes some voodoo pace line selection, averages 100% winners at a mutual of $65 or higher. Then and only then will he be impressed or forced to proffer a positive comment.

But that is fine with me. I am not putting in the amount of time I am, for his benefit. I am doing it for all the cappers like me. The human ones. Not the super hero of legendary tales such as Light The Magnificent.

Case in point as it relates to Light's continued bent. I have a little book called 'Superhorse' which I bought years ago. I love that book and it's basic premise. But I can't get it to work really. The key to success with it is all about Pace selection. It proves through it's myriad of examples that you can pick the winner in every race through paceline selection. If you select just the right paceline for every horse, you will win 100% of the races.

And that entails picking the bad paceline for the favorite when they don't win. But who in the hell has that insight or ability. Oh I forgot, Light The Magnificent does. I beg your pardon.

There are many different ways to skin a cat in this endeavor. I don't claim that Handifast is the 'Holy Grail', but damn it, it's a pretty nice little program, and I will put it up against anybody's program. And I mean anybody!

Handi:)

headhawg
02-27-2010, 07:20 PM
No matter what happens, Light will not be satisfied till a program includes some voodoo pace line selection, averages 100% winners at a mutual of $65 or higher. Then and only then will he be impressed or forced to proffer a positive comment.

But that is fine with me. I am not putting in the amount of time I am, for his benefit. I am doing it for all the cappers like me. The human ones. Not the super hero of legendary tales such as Light The Magnificent.As I've said before the Ignore option is a wonderful thing. But...

...to show you how stream of consciousness works, "Light the Magnificent" reminded me of Flash Gordon's Ming the Merciless, which reminded me of Flesh Gordon's Emperor Wang, which reminded me of these classic lines:

Evil Presence: "How many times do I have to tell you to stand still when I hit you? And stop using those big words!"
(Master) Bator: "Yes, your assHoliness!"

And if the shoe fits...

Light
02-28-2010, 12:01 AM
Sorry, I just don't understand the negativity.


It's not about being negative, it's about past posting. Next time you know your software is going to hit 8 out of 8,maybe you should bet the house. What idiot wouldn't? How about I tell you all the wonderful hits my program had after the races. I'm sure you'd buy that. :rolleyes: If you want to look more credible,toss out your best Houdini impersonation of what your software will do before the races.

Buckeye
02-28-2010, 12:33 AM
that's a fair point Light, as before would be much better than after. On the other hand, 8 out of 8 is nothing to sneeze at. But I'm bending more toward your direction Light, if that's what this program picks (favorites) then once in a great while 8 of 8 will win BUT how could that help? It depends. It could help if the winners keep coming at high enough odds . . .

But I doubt that. So once again the Black Box is not for sale, free or otherwise.

dartman51
02-28-2010, 01:08 AM
Look guys, here's the thing. This is a FREE program. Download the damn thing, run last weeks Santa Anita files(MCP) through it, and if after scratches, you don't get the same winners I posted(with defaults), I'll kiss your ass. What I posted, was simply using the default settings. If everyone who has the program, ran the same files through it, they would get the SAME winners. This is NOT about making decisions on pace lines, jockeys, trainers, layoffs, medication, equipment changes, or a multitude of other things. It's just a quick, simple, load the files, make the scratches, and let the program give you the selections, based on the information it has, from best to worst. What you do with that information, is up to the individule. It wouldn't have mattered if I posted those races BEFORE or AFTER the races had run. There is NO MANIPULATION of figures. I just took what the program gave me. I will tell you this. I didn't have ANY of those winners as I don't play Santa Anita. Too many short fields for my taste. Any information that I post, concerning what the program does, is stictly for those that might be following the programs progression. As I don't have a dog in this hunt, what anyone does with that information is entirely up to them. It's not like I'm trying to convince anyone to buy it. If you think the price is too high, then it's probably not for you anyway. ;)

PaceAdvantage
02-28-2010, 03:28 AM
Light seems to be quite threatened by the success of HandiFast...

I can't figure out the underlying reason for his continued negativity here in HandiFast land. The program is free, so Light can not hitch his wagon to the fact that past-posting the results in some way generates more profits for the program author...because there are NO sales and thus NO profits to generate (other than by using the program as a wagering tool).

I find it very odd that Light feels the need to rain on your parade at every possible turn. Did you piss him off in a prior lifetime?

raybo
02-28-2010, 06:22 AM
Light seems to be quite threatened by the success of HandiFast...

I can't figure out the underlying reason for his continued negativity here in HandiFast land. The program is free, so Light can not hitch his wagon to the fact that past-posting the results in some way generates more profits for the program author...because there are NO sales and thus NO profits to generate (other than by using the program as a wagering tool).

I find it very odd that Light feels the need to rain on your parade at every possible turn. Did you piss him off in a prior lifetime?

Back when chat rooms were the rage, there was always a teenager or 2 that would come in the room and raise hell. Light reminds me exactly of the same mentality.

monistee
02-28-2010, 06:42 AM
Anytime you can come home and say "I had 8 winners". That's a Great Day!
Favorites, or longshots, it still 8 winners! Congrats. :ThmbUp:

Light
02-28-2010, 03:27 PM
You still dont get it. Its meaningless to post what the program did. Everyone with a computer generated handicap program still has to handicap the computer's output. In other words do you believe what its telling you. I could say my program picked the pk6 at track X. All you had to do was play the first 6 digits of a telephone #. Its second choice won,then its 4th choice then its top pick then all its 3rd picks. So if you played telephone # 241-333,you had it. So simple.What's todays lottery...I mean telephone #.This is the same as picking numbers out of a hat.

If the program has all the winners on top,you don't know that beforehand . You still have to either have blind faith in its picks or just use it as a guide. 99.9% are going to use it as a guide because it's inconsistent. Every program is going to have good days and most likeley the user is not going to capitalize on those days because they dont know when it is crying wolf or not. Get it? As we've seen from Handi's picks,some days totally suck.

So when you guys figure out how to tell when the program is right, you will have achieved a major breakthrough. I've been trying to figure that out for 10 years with my own software that can lay better claims than 8-8 chalky days. Its still irrelevant to my winning if I dont know when its right beforehand.Currently I am modeling its picks but it's still not close to singling its winner. If software developers knew how to figure this out,they would never sell their program or give it away for free.

toetoe
02-28-2010, 03:49 PM
at sa today all top winners .



Top implies that multiple horses were picked. What do the geniuses recommend ? Play all the top, bottom and in-between picks ? If all the winners come from 2nd, 3rd or 4th picks, are we still rich ?

headhawg
02-28-2010, 05:45 PM
What do the geniuses recommend ? Et tu, double toe? I thought that you had more class than that. Apparently not.

raybo
02-28-2010, 06:55 PM
Top implies that multiple horses were picked. What do the geniuses recommend ? Play all the top, bottom and in-between picks ? If all the winners come from 2nd, 3rd or 4th picks, are we still rich ?

The man said top pick. He even posted the top picks' scores. What is it you don't understand?

This program's top pick doesn't just pick chalk, it picks the horse that should win, according to the algorithms within the program. It's up to the player whether he wants to bet the top pick, regardless of price, or go with one of the overlays, also offered by the program.

Nobody said it's a black box, it's a tool. But, so far, it works pretty darn good as a black box, as evidenced by Handi and some of the other users.

If you don't like the program then you don't have to use it and you darn sure don't have to exert any effort posting negative comments about it, to users who find it a valuable tool.

So far, I haven't heard of anyone having any costs associated with the use of the program. The program is free and most players have to pay for data anyway. If the program cost money or you had to buy expensive data files then that would be a different situation. But, that's not the case.

Pace Cap'n
02-28-2010, 07:05 PM
You Handifast guys are getting masterfully trolled by a couple of mutual nuthuggers.

Light
02-28-2010, 07:25 PM
So far, I haven't heard of anyone having any costs associated with the use of the program. The program is free and most players have to pay for data anyway. If the program cost money or you had to buy expensive data files then that would be a different situation. But, that's not the case.

I think there is a bit of an issue here. Bris has several free software programs such as All-ways and Multicaps and the files costs are not cheap. There is a major problem when this supposedly free program requires $5 multicap files or it wont get 8 out of 8. I couldn't even monitor Handi's black box selections because he was getting winners with MC files that $1 Bris data files did not.When I brought up this issue with him during the "black box contest",he said to use multicaps. If that isn't sweeping the issue under the rug,I dont know what is. If I didn't know better,you'd think he gets a cut from MC file sales. If you are making a free program for the general public,then the files it runs on should cost accordingly.

headhawg
02-28-2010, 07:37 PM
If you are making a free program for the general public,then the files it runs on should cost accordingly.Your logic is as bad as your handicapping.

So as PA suggested, why do you feel so threatened by Handifast? Inquiring minds want to know. Er...not really. You're back on Ignore.

dartman51
02-28-2010, 08:03 PM
I think there is a bit of an issue here. Bris has several free software programs such as All-ways and Multicaps and the files costs are not cheap. There is a major problem when this supposedly free program requires $5 multicap files or it wont get 8 out of 8. I couldn't even monitor Handi's black box selections because he was getting winners with MC files that $1 Bris data files did not.When I brought up this issue with him during the "black box contest",he said to use multicaps. If that isn't sweeping the issue under the rug,I dont know what is. If I didn't know better,you'd think he gets a cut from MC file sales. If you are making a free program for the general public,then the files it runs on should cost accordingly.

:lol: Let me see if I understand where you're coming from. You think that it is better to spend anywhere from $400 to $1400 for a software program and then you have to sign up for their data downloads for $100+. pr month, as opposed to getting a program for free that will use various downloads? When this first started, the program would use the 50 cent eg files from TSN. Unfortunately, they are not around anymore. No one knows if you can get a high percentage of winners with the $1 BRIS files, or not. I only use the MCP files, because I get unlimited downloads for $60 pr month. It has been said many times in the various threads on Handifast, that it is IN NO WAY to be considered a BLACK BOX. That is why it was given the ability to be adjusted. I would be tickled if ANY software program would give me anywhere near break even figures, right out of the box, with no adjustments, as long as I have the ability to make adjustments to improve the output. This is just that sort of program. I have been testing software programs since 1985 when I got my first 286xt PC. Over the years, I have probably tested over 150 programs. Not one of them would outperform Handifast, right out of the box, with NO TWEAKING. I don't know how good Handifast is, or isn't. It's too soon to tell, and I haven't had a chance to do any real tweaking yet. Don't know how soon I'll be able to do that, as I am working on another project , at the moment.
If it makes you feel better, I posted the selections for TAM in the selections thread this morning. The program did not do all that well. Two wins, three place and one show. That's the number one pick only.
Back you your assesment, I guess if the program is FREE then the data files that it uses should be FREE, but then I guess I already addressed that.
FREE......FREE....FREE....FREE....FREE....FREE....FREE....FREE....FREE....FREE
;)

Handiman
02-28-2010, 08:15 PM
I really have to laugh here. I mean I am honestly rolling around on the floor laughing my ass off. Light, I have tried to give you the benefit of the doubt, but you have finally proven you have the analytical skills of a mosquito!

You honestly are casting dispersions on me and Handifast because the program works better with the mcp files than it does the $1 DRF files? You are the first person I have ever known...heard of...or even thought might ever live that expected a software for horse racing to take into account the failings of a cheaper datafile.

There are numerous members here, maybe too many to count, that have said they prefer one data service over another. And you think that it would be prudent for me to attempt to compensate for the short comings of data files in a program I offer free? Are you insane?

I just explained to Louie, my french Bulldog what you posted, and he smiled as dogs often do and then licked his butt. I can only assume that was in your honor.
I thought at one time you might have some degree of intelligence that would elevate you above the common masses. But brother was I wrong.

I will admit one thing. And that is you are the best and most profitable Handicapper I know, who holds up his successes without ever having to proffer visible proof. It must be a grand place to be, that space between your ears, for the most amazing stuff seems to emanate from there.

God Bless you Grand Wizard of Boastcapping.

Handi:)

Light
02-28-2010, 08:20 PM
Your logic is as bad as your handicapping.



If you are a programmer,then you should be able to follow the flow of logic. I was responding to Raybo,who I quoted as saying there is no cost issue with this software. I did not say freeware files should be free. If $5 MC's are required to get 8 of 8 and you can only get 5 out of 8 with $1 Bris data files as lsosa54 pointed out,then there is an issue. Comprendre?

Light
02-28-2010, 08:23 PM
:lol: Let me see if I understand where you're coming from. You think that it is better to spend anywhere from $400 to $1400 for a software program and then you have to sign up for their data downloads for $100+. pr month, as opposed to getting a program for free that will use various downloads? When this first started, the program would use the 50 cent eg files from TSN. Unfortunately, they are not around anymore. No one knows if you can get a high percentage of winners with the $1 BRIS files, or not. I only use the MCP files, because I get unlimited downloads for $60 pr month. It has been said many times in the various threads on Handifast, that it is IN NO WAY to be considered a BLACK BOX. That is why it was given the ability to be adjusted. I would be tickled if ANY software program would give me anywhere near break even figures, right out of the box, with no adjustments, as long as I have the ability to make adjustments to improve the output. This is just that sort of program. I have been testing software programs since 1985 when I got my first 286xt PC. Over the years, I have probably tested over 150 programs. Not one of them would outperform Handifast, right out of the box, with NO TWEAKING. I don't know how good Handifast is, or isn't. It's too soon to tell, and I haven't had a chance to do any real tweaking yet. Don't know how soon I'll be able to do that, as I am working on another project , at the moment.
If it makes you feel better, I posted the selections for TAM in the selections thread this morning. The program did not do all that well. Two wins, three place and one show. That's the number one pick only.
Back you your assesment, I guess if the program is FREE then the data files that it uses should be FREE, but then I guess I already addressed that.
FREE......FREE....FREE....FREE....FREE....FREE....FREE....FREE....FREE....FREE
;)


Your argument might have some meaning if it had some relevance to what I am saying.

PaceAdvantage
02-28-2010, 08:25 PM
Top implies that multiple horses were picked. What do the geniuses recommend ? Play all the top, bottom and in-between picks ? If all the winners come from 2nd, 3rd or 4th picks, are we still rich ?Why am I not surprised that you have suddenly decided to jump into HandiFast discussions...:lol:

Light
02-28-2010, 08:30 PM
I really have to laugh here. I mean I am honestly rolling around on the floor laughing my ass off. Light, I have tried to give you the benefit of the doubt, but you have finally proven you have the analytical skills of a mosquito!

You honestly are casting dispersions on me and Handifast because the program works better with the mcp files than it does the $1 DRF files? You are the first person I have ever known...heard of...or even thought might ever live that expected a software for horse racing to take into account the failings of a cheaper datafile.

There are numerous members here, maybe too many to count, that have said they prefer one data service over another. And you think that it would be prudent for me to attempt to compensate for the short comings of data files in a program I offer free? Are you insane?

I just explained to Louie, my french Bulldog what you posted, and he smiled as dogs often do and then licked his butt. I can only assume that was in your honor.
I thought at one time you might have some degree of intelligence that would elevate you above the common masses. But brother was I wrong.

I will admit one thing. And that is you are the best and most profitable Handicapper I know, who holds up his successes without ever having to proffer visible proof. It must be a grand place to be, that space between your ears, for the most amazing stuff seems to emanate from there.

God Bless you Grand Wizard of Boastcapping.

Handi:)

This does not address the issues regarding your free software. It only demonstrates your disdain for what I'm saying. I have nothing against you nor anyone else. Why would I debase you for disagreeing with me.But thats what you are doing here. Pitiful.

Tom
02-28-2010, 08:48 PM
I think there is a bit of an issue here. Bris has several free software programs such as All-ways and Multicaps and the files costs are not cheap. There is a major problem when this supposedly free program requires $5 multicap files or it wont get 8 out of 8. I couldn't even monitor Handi's black box selections because he was getting winners with MC files that $1 Bris data files did not.When I brought up this issue with him during the "black box contest",he said to use multicaps. If that isn't sweeping the issue under the rug,I dont know what is. If I didn't know better,you'd think he gets a cut from MC file sales. If you are making a free program for the general public,then the files it runs on should cost accordingly.

BS. NOBODY gets free data files.
If you are winning, why cry about $5 a file?
What kind of an idiot would bitch about winning?

If he is making a FREE program for anyone, that is winning like this one, they ought to kiss his ass and thank him for it.

headhawg
02-28-2010, 08:50 PM
If you are a programmer,then you should be able to follow the flow of logic. I was responding to Raybo,who I quoted as saying there is no cost issue with this software. I did not say freeware files should be free. If $5 MC's are required to get 8 of 8 and you can only get 5 out of 8 with $1 Bris data files as lsosa54 pointed out,then there is an issue. Comprendre?Your logic is like spaghetti code with plenty of syntax errors. And I've already posted that there's likely a difference between the files. Selective reading perhaps? Also this is what you posted:

If you are making a free program for the general public,then the files it runs on should cost accordingly

Logically you are saying that they should be free. If that wasn't what you meant then you should make clearer statements. You're logic is flawed anyway which was my point. If you own a performance vehicle that runs better on premium fuel should you buy the cheap stuff? It's your call, but logically you shouldn't. But as the car was free you shouldn't complain anyway. Comprende?

And your response to Handi? You're kidding us with that shit, right?

fast4522
02-28-2010, 09:02 PM
Man you have real issues, your software is better than because of what your saying. Fine, I am sure you can start a thread about how good yours is and we will pick it apart right? I doubt it very much, I would go so far as to say very few might post with you or maybe none. I do not agree with everything I read here but in a real way I do not expect to. The folks in this thread are having fun with what is provided and for most of us it is a hobby. That being said with the cost being $ 0 and the majority of the participants actually having fun with it then why would you have any relevance at all?

Light
02-28-2010, 09:09 PM
BS. NOBODY gets free data files.
If you are winning, why cry about $5 a file?
What kind of an idiot would bitch about winning?

If he is making a FREE program for anyone, that is winning like this one, they ought to kiss his ass and thank him for it.

That would make sense if they actually were winning. Today "fight" posted his $5 multicap picks in the other thread. Went 1-9 with a $5 horse on top barely paying for the MC file.Add that to the losing bets and $5 a track files get expensive fast.

Light
02-28-2010, 09:13 PM
Logically you are saying that they should be free. If that wasn't what you meant then you should make clearer statements.

You're either playing dumb or you actually are. I specifically reffered to the $1 Bris data files vs the $5 MC files. I dont know any data files that are free. Do you?

Light
02-28-2010, 09:18 PM
I dont know any other software that would shortchange their customers on winners because they use a cheaper file. You got people raving how great this is but you should include a caveat emptor to those using the cheaper files.

Buckeye
02-28-2010, 09:23 PM
look boyz, if handi fast can come closer to break even than any other black box then maybe we have something (that won't last too long). If it's a great FREE tool great. 8 out of 8 means nothing for most of us. We are trying to bet on a regular basis and win money in the process. The VERY BEST black box I've seen can only lose 10% on the dollar by itself.

Tom
02-28-2010, 09:24 PM
I dont know any other software that would shortchange their customers on winners because they use a cheaper file. You got people raving how great this is but you should include a caveat emptor to those using the cheaper files.


Ok, if you are not happy, ask for your money back. :lol:

you can only get 5 out of 8 with $1 Bris data files
:lol::lol:

caveat emptor

"Buyer beware"
What did you buy?:lol::lol::lol:

Buckeye
02-28-2010, 09:39 PM
how much is that money Tom? The program is free but the data files are not, nor are the 10 percent loses. HTR top K horse lose how much? Maybe we need a new definition of "free." I hereby say that free means our program brings you closer to breaking even. You'll lose only less . . .

When I got into this stuff I never imagined it would be this tough. And in a way it's not. NOBODY is going to give you anything for free, be that $1500 or 15 Billion dollars. It's up to you.

PaceAdvantage
02-28-2010, 09:59 PM
This is the same Light who has now ducked out TWICE from having his selections tracked alongside a public handicapper whom he has publicly proclaimed "sucks."

Lately, he's ALL TALKY, NO BALLSY.

headhawg
02-28-2010, 11:24 PM
You're either playing dumb or you actually are. I specifically reffered to the $1 Bris data files vs the $5 MC files. I dont know any data files that are free. Do you?I am sorry that you are so effing stupid that you cannot follow my retort. Or your own posts. Forget it. You're useless. I should have kept you on Ignore. What was I thinking?? :faint:

And I still can't believe all of this uproar over a free program. This is insane. It's also one of the reasons that I no longer feel like contributing to the code anymore. Too many asshats with nothing better to do but slam a program for no good reason. Pace Cap'n had it right -- "masterfully trolled by a couple of mutual nuthuggers". :lol:

Partsnut
03-01-2010, 12:43 AM
headhawg: And I still can't believe all of this uproar over a free program. This is insane. It's also one of the reasons that I no longer feel like contributing to the code anymore. Too many asshats with nothing better to do but slam a program for no good reason. Pace Cap'n had it right -- "masterfully trolled by a couple of mutual nuthuggers ". :lol:Today 08:59 PM

What one must realize is that this software ia a tool and not a black box that many of us choose to use. It has the flexiblity for one to set it up as they please. There will always be those, and not very many of us, that will choose not to use it. If one is looking for the magic bullet, I don't think he will find it. There are many talented handicappers on this board. Most have their way of doing things. The major consensus of this board likes what you are doing. The use of the software is dependant on the experience, knowledge and ability of the individual handicapper. Some have this and some don't. I guess everyone has an opinion as well but should not express it if he can't back it up or show us all something better. It does little for his credibility and popularity among his peers.

headhawg, your work is very appreciated by many of us. Bypass, the negative. Your good at what you do and are doing something good for the majority. Ignore the few detractors.

formula_2002
03-01-2010, 10:18 AM
FOR THE AQU WINTER-SPRING MEET
(POSTED IN SELECTIONS FORUM)
----BULLET PLAYS---- JUST ONE SHOT :)

WIN POOL ROI, 1.15
OVERALL ROI , 1.02

$144 win bets returned $166.20

$200 EX bets returned $100.20

$28 dd bets retutned $100.80

$4 pic 3 returned

BIG HIT
03-01-2010, 11:21 AM
Frist of all the prgm is free so in my opinion if it went 0 for 8 still not over priced.Being that it picked 8 for 8 and all fav.Means nothing but that day did not have a lot of price horse.Why price has really nothing to do with it.How many program can pick say ten in a row that only pay $3.00.
Fact of matter it pick all of them on top.Don't think alot of program's can do that.Never even herd light bitch his program doing that to him.
I remenber more than once hooking long shot up with a $3.00 or less and watch longshot win and odd's fav run last.
Light weather your or anyone else program is better who care's these guy's offered horseplayer's a free product where is your free product.To share knowledge and time for free plus help them with question's.I for one have never seen kindness or generocity.You are a good hdcper but as people go your just another guy run of mill sorta speak.They are above you because they are do you mostly just critizie's

lamboguy
03-01-2010, 11:27 AM
picking 8 straight winners on any type of a surface no matter what price is one of the greatest accomplishments i have ever seen in my life no matter what price the horses were.


congradulations, go do it a few more times

Light
03-01-2010, 12:26 PM
This is the same Light who has now ducked out TWICE from having his selections tracked alongside a public handicapper whom he has publicly proclaimed "sucks."

Lately, he's ALL TALKY, NO BALLSY.

You should apply the same standards you warned me about in a private message about injecting talk about that public handicapper in other threads.

Light
03-01-2010, 12:32 PM
The program is free but the data files are not

Can anyone read the above quote? Lets do some math. $5 MC files for 4 tracks a day cost $20. $20*5 days a week = $100. $100*a year = $5000 just for data. I dont call that free.

Light
03-01-2010, 12:41 PM
You would be better off using KM's HTR program. I dont use it nor am I endorsing it. But it's also a free program. Uses better quality data,has many more tools and utilities than the Handi program, including databasing capabilities and would only cost you around $1500 a year in data files for unlimited tracks. Plus KM and his entourage have proven themselves in drf nhc contests. Handi and the Hog dude have not.

Tom
03-01-2010, 01:38 PM
You assume everyone wants every track every day.
Many do not.

Handifast seems to fit a nice niche and do what it was intended to do.
Why does hat bother you so much?

BIG HIT
03-01-2010, 02:32 PM
Light fore not correcting my mistake about only one being free.And would say for more advance player as $5.00 is alot fore most player's.Bris $1.00 files are good fore most player's and there premium file will give you more stat's +tr+jky+pedigree but that all your choice as player for $5.00 you expect more
Outside of going to trk buy DRF bris is much more affordable.Race track's also offer there own fourm for each track running.HSH you can't use anything else but the $5.00 one most on board are not winner's more love hobby with big score or winning hdcp contest or just think to much money.
Thier are many good hdcpr in fact can't think of one that stink's place up on the board.

Vinnie
03-01-2010, 02:47 PM
Tom:

You hit the nail right on the head. Due to work and some other commitments I am not able to handicap and play the races nearly as much as I would like at present. However, I do love the Handifast program and I can't say enough about the folks that have put so very much of their knowledge, hard work and expertise in to taking Handifast to where it is today. I formerly used a software program that was pretty decent at selecting the contenders in Quarter Horse races, but, unfortunately, it only utilized the TSN data files. The program that I used prior to Handifast wasn't even in the same league as the ratings that Handifast produces for gettting down to the contenders and the nuts and bolts of the QH Races or for essentially any other races that I should care to review or handicap. Hey, no one is forcing me to use Handifast. My arm isn't being twisted or anything of the sort. It is me the user that has decided to use Handifast and the unique and excellent ratings that it produces to assist me in my handicapping selections or process on a given race.

I can't think of where I read this recently, but, I know that it was posted by someone on this board that said it. "You use whatever works best within your very own frame of reference" and that is all that you can do. I love the Handifast software as a handicapping tool, and I will always be grateful that Douglas, Handi and HH were so kind to share their collective efforts with us in the creation of their fine program.

Thanks a bunch Guys! :)

Handiman
03-01-2010, 03:41 PM
Light has finally brought me to my knees by revealing what a true scoundrel I am. I realize what my nefarious behavior has done to all of you by giving of my time and limited programming talents to take Doug's original premise and expand well past his expectations, causing you unmeasurable financial harm.

So in response to his public flogging of me, I will repent and make things right. From this day forward anyone choosing to use Handifast, regardless how you use it, I will sell my house and all that I own, go live in a shelter and for the rest of my day, I will pay for your datafiles too!

That is the least I can do for causing such unexpected and untold financial harm to the poor unsuspecting and ill informed players here at PA.

Humbly your servant for life,
Handiman
May God forgive me of my woeful ways.

Tom
03-01-2010, 03:56 PM
Wow, thanks!
Is that retro back through this past weekend?
I bought a few.......


:lol:

toetoe
03-01-2010, 04:56 PM
Et tu, double toe? I thought that you had more class than that. Apparently not.



Hawg,

You are falling into the same trap as tlg's votaries: treating him like a god when he's up. When he's down, anyone that notices "has no class."

You do handiman no favors by your puffery. At least tlg, Blewitt and Donovan pick four per race --- four per race !!! --- because their bosses tell them to.

The term geniuses is a slap at the idolators, and not at the man himself.

toetoe
03-01-2010, 05:09 PM
The man said top pick. He even posted the top picks' scores. What is it you don't understand?





I'm surprised that you did not understand. Here goes, s-l-o-w-l-y:


Pick ... one ... horse ... per ... race.

No top, no middle, no bottom. The qualifier top sounds wonderful, but by definition, at least one other pick exists every race. Come da fine out (:denzel Washington voice.) he's picking four ... count 'em FOUR per race.

Maybe I'm missing the point, Raybo, but how to profit from these picks ? Bet all four to win ? Show me how this is not hollow puffery. Please, show me. :) .

raybo
03-01-2010, 05:13 PM
Why don't all you people who don't like HandiFast stop coming to this portion of the forum. We, the people who appreciate what has been done, would appreciate your absence, and would appreciate your not hijacking these threads for your own demented pleasure.

Go away.

raybo
03-01-2010, 05:15 PM
I'm surprised that you did not understand. Here goes, s-l-o-w-l-y:


Pick ... one ... horse ... per ... race.

No top, no middle, no bottom. The qualifier top sounds wonderful, but by definition, at least one other pick exists every race. Come da fine out (:denzel Washington voice.) he's picking four ... count 'em FOUR per race.

Maybe I'm missing the point, Raybo, but how to profit from these picks ? Bet all four to win ? Show me how this is not hollow puffery. Please, show me. :) .

What I understand is that you are not contributing anything to this thread.

Light
03-01-2010, 05:16 PM
Light has finally brought me to my knees by revealing what a true scoundrel I am.

Sir, my thing is not to bring you to your knees. Stop copping out. Please stand up on your own 2 feet and address the issue. Your own users are saying they dont get the same # of winners using the $1 Bris files as using the $5 MC files,as I found out too. I cant even do a study on your program as I did on the hype with TLG because your program has 2 different outputs depending on the file you use.

This is the last time I am going to mention this. (Hold the applause). You guys were too stubborn to listen to what I was talking about before regarding PL selection. Now you wont even listen when your own users are complaining about the discrepency in the files. You either talk like politicians, essentially saying nothing or you try character assasinations. Totally unprofessional.

toetoe
03-01-2010, 05:17 PM
[/b][/color]




Maybe I'm just class-challenged, but I don't understand the positivity.

If you want to bet all of handiman's top picks, top four picks, dime super baseballs or some combination thereof, I will stand by for your results.

toetoe
03-01-2010, 05:19 PM
Why am I not surprised that you have suddenly decided to jump into HandiFast discussions...:lol:



Mein Fuhrer,



Not surprising, as I am the horse's ass, remember ? How do I know ? The almighty patron saint of unintelligible hags told me so.

toetoe
03-01-2010, 05:22 PM
Lately, he's ALL TALKY, NO BALLSY.



Just lately ? :jump: .

raybo
03-01-2010, 05:34 PM
Mein Fuhrer,



Not surprising, as I am the horse's ass, remember ? How do I know ? The almighty patron saint of unintelligible hags told me so.

I assume, by you and that other guy's posts that you have no interest in Handfast and will not be using it. If so, why are you posting in a Handifast thread? Are you trying to cause people to dislike you and ignore all your posts? Well, you've succeeded.

Handiman
03-01-2010, 06:10 PM
Light,

You just don't get it. The program was built using the TSN 50cent files. Do you understand that TSN 50 cent files are cheaper than the $1 DRF files?

Please answer this? Do you Understand that Handifast was coded to use a cheap 50 cent data file? that's 50 pennies US. At the same time, users could have used the $1 DRF file. In simpler terms, that's 100 pennies US. Also known as twice the cost of the 50 pennie datafile.

Move ahead in time and then discover that TSN decided to go away and the 50 cent file was no longer available. So what to do? I did nothing to the code, except eliminate the file extension .eg that was used for TSN 50 penny data files and put in the extension .mcp which then allowed the user to use Multicap files. I was using Procaps files because I got unlimited files for a monthly fee.

Now since Bris offered to replace my unlimited procaps files with unlimited multicaps files I added the ,mcp extension. But I did not change the algorithms one bit. So the program in the begining could use .eg.....pcs....
.drf data files. now .eg and .pcs files are no longer available. So the files it uses are .DRF and .MCP I did nothing to change the program's internal logical activity.

So if the MCP files are better than DRF that's not my problem. If the 50 cent .eg files were better than .drf and .pcs or .mcp even, again not my problem.

So get off your high horse about the cost of the .mcp files or go after the guys who won't provide the 50 cent files that the program was built around.

Handi:)

Buckeye
03-01-2010, 07:03 PM
Can anyone read the above quote? Lets do some math. $5 MC files for 4 tracks a day cost $20. $20*5 days a week = $100. $100*a year = $5000 just for data. I dont call that free.

Light, that's what I said. Data is not free if you have download it from bris, HDW, or PTD. There is no disagreement.

Buckeye
03-01-2010, 07:13 PM
Why don't all you people who don't like HandiFast stop coming to this portion of the forum. We, the people who appreciate what has been done, would appreciate your absence, and would appreciate your not hijacking these threads for your own demented pleasure.

Go away.

Rabo, it's not that we or (I) don't like it, but let's call a spade a spade, 8 of 8 all favorites and yet to be proven superior (losing) black box results over a LONG period are cause for one to pause.

njcurveball
03-01-2010, 08:44 PM
I am pretty much shocked at how much a post in a specific forum for specific software has turned into a "Slobberknocker" as they use to say in the WWF.

As an HTR user, I will be the first to tell someone that you aren't going to buy the program download the files and hit 8 for 8. As a former HSH User, I would be shocked if Dave promises that these days.

I think this thread has run it's course and all I can say is about the only other poster I have seen go 8 for 8 here was 46, but then again he posted after the races were run. :lol:

Keep up the good work Handi! :ThmbUp:

dartman51
03-01-2010, 09:01 PM
Maybe I'm just class-challenged, but I don't understand the positivity.

If you want to bet all of handiman's top picks, top four picks, dime super baseballs or some combination thereof, I will stand by for your results.

Maybe you should have LOOKED at MY post, BEFORE you got diarrhea of the mouth...uhh...fingers. I only posted ONE per race. Only the ONE top, got that, TOP pick pr race. Not 2, not 3, not even 4 only ONE. I also posted the selections for TAM yesterday in the selections thread. ONE per race. As far as using MCP files vs the $1 files, it doesn't make that big of a difference. One day you might get 8 winners from MCP files and only 6 or 7 using the $1 files, then another you could get 8 winners with the $1 files and only 6 or 7 using the MCP files. It all evens out in the long run. Cheers:ThmbUp:

Rwahi1
03-01-2010, 09:19 PM
Can anyone read the above quote? Lets do some math. $5 MC files for 4 tracks a day cost $20. $20*5 days a week = $100. $100*a year = $5000 just for data. I dont call that free.

For your information I pay $2 MC files. I am not going to explain to asshole like you why I pay $2. Go to the Bris website and READ!

raybo
03-01-2010, 09:41 PM
For your information I pay $2 MC files. I am not going to explain to asshole like you why I pay $2. Go to the Bris website and READ!

LOL :ThmbUp:

Some people only want to see what they want to see.