NYRA may eliminate detention barn

[Grits]

http://www.drf.com/news/article/111031.html

Excerpt:

According to NYRA CEO and president Charles Hayward, the race-day security barn costs NYRA $1.2 million annually to run. It costs the horsemen approximately $1.5 to $2 million annually to staff it, according to trainer Rick Violette, president of the New York Thoroughbred Horsemen's Association and a member of the NYRA board. Closing Aqueduct's stabling area should save NYRA $300,000 a month, Hayward said.

In addition to those costs, Hayward said that NYRA has seen a drop in out-of-town shippers from 1,400 in 2005 to 600 in 2009.

[andymays]

Jeff Mullins wants to know if it's retroactive.

[cj]

Yep, don't cut purses, cut protection for the bettors. Typical.

[andymays]

We can always go back to the Ben Hur days.

Men were men and horses were horses and cheating was cheating. ;)

[Hanover1]

We can always go back to the Ben Hur days.

Men were men and horses were horses and cheating was cheating. ;)
As Richard Petty used to say: "It aint cheatin unless ya get caught"........

[andymays]

As Richard Petty used to say: "It aint cheatin unless ya get caught"........


The blades on the wheels were the tip off. ;)

[Rise Over Run]

Jeff Mullins wants to know if it's retroactive.

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

outstanding!

[Rise Over Run]

Jamie Ness' stall application is on it's way.

[joanied]

http://www.drf.com/news/article/111031.html

Excerpt:

According to NYRA CEO and president Charles Hayward, barnthe race-day security costs NYRA $1.2 million annually to run. It costs the horsemen approximately $1.5 to $2 million annually to staff it, according to trainer Rick Violette, president of the New York Thoroughbred Horsemen's Association and a member of the NYRA board. Closing Aqueduct's stabling area should save NYRA $300,000 a month, Hayward said.

In addition to those costs, Hayward said that NYRA has seen a drop in out-of-town shippers from 1,400 in 2005 to 600 in 2009.

What:confused: I would like to see a breakdown of the costs...those figures seem way too high.

[BombsAway Bob]

What:confused: I would like to see a breakdown of the costs...those figures seem way too high.
using 350 racing days, & low-end horsemans cost figures,that's +$7,500/racing day :mad:

[LottaKash]

It figures, drug abuse is rampant in horse racing today, and the tracks just keep thumbing their noses at us....yeesh !

[proximity]

. It costs the horsemen approximately $1.5 to $2 million annually to staff it, according to trainer Rick Violette, president of the New York Thoroughbred Horsemen's Association and a member of the NYRA board. .

and when the mid-atlantic "trainers" start rolling in (beattie, ness, ziade, mcvaders,....) then mr violette will see how much it costs NOT to staff it!!

[Indulto]

and when the mid-atlantic "trainers" start rolling in (beattie, ness, ziade, mcvaders,....) then mr violette will see how much it costs NOT to staff it!!If the purpose of the detention barns were to keep private vets away from the horses, why not make the vets the subject of srutiny rather than the horses?

Barry Irwin recently suggested drug cooperatives as opposed to vets as medication sources to lower horsemen's costs. If private vet's couldn't bring their own drugs on the grounds, and had to make requests for medication for each horse treated, then perhaps security personnel accompanying vets during their rounds would be sufficient.

[Stillriledup]

If the purpose of the detention barns were to keep private vets away from the horses, why not make the vets the subject of srutiny rather than the horses?

Barry Irwin recently suggested drug cooperatives as opposed to vets as medication sources to lower horsemen's costs. If private vet's couldn't bring their own drugs on the grounds, and had to make requests for medication for each horse treated, then perhaps security personnel accompanying vets during their rounds would be sufficient.

Just put the attending vet's name on the program and if the horse comes up positive, the vet gets 'suspended' from the grounds for a period of time. The vet also gets fined the same amount of money the trainer gets fined. Doesnt' seem like rocket science.

[Indulto]

Just put the attending vet's name on the program and if the horse comes up positive, the vet gets 'suspended' from the grounds for a period of time. The vet also gets fined the same amount of money the trainer gets fined. Doesnt' seem like rocket science.It may not be rocket science, but such testing criteria and sanctions should be uniform across venues. In the system I envisioned to deal with NY's concerns, all medication data including date and amount given each horse would become a matter of record. If the horse races before the vet-specified date the drug is supposed to be out of its system, the responsibility should be limited to the trainer and/or owner.

It seems to me that a vet should only be sanctioned when multiple positives involving any horse(s) treated by a vet indicate a pattern of incompetency and/or performance enhancements. Otherwise, it would raise the cost of veterinary care the system was intended to reduce.

[Stillriledup]

It may not be rocket science, but such testing criteria and sanctions should be uniform across venues. In the system I envisioned to deal with NY's concerns, all medication data including date and amount given each horse would become a matter of record. If the horse races before the vet-specified date the drug is supposed to be out of its system, the responsibility should be limited to the trainer and/or owner.

It seems to me that a vet should only be sanctioned when multiple positives involving any horse(s) treated by a vet indicate a pattern of incompetency and/or performance enhancements. Otherwise, it would raise the cost of veterinary care the system was intended to reduce.


The vets name should be a matter of public record. There should be some way, when you are handicapping, to find out the info on which vet is treating which horse. Like trainers, bettors could have their favorite vets. First time vet change might be a good angle, unfortunately, only the insiders know who's doing the vet work on these runners.

[Tom]

Is this the action of a "major league" race track?
Bad decision, NYRA. :ThmbDown:

[Stillriledup]

Is this the action of a "major league" race track?
Bad decision, NYRA. :ThmbDown:

I guess the 'glow' of the A One Rocket situation has worn off and integrity isn't important anymore.

[miesque]

using 350 racing days, & low-end horsemans cost figures,that's +$7,500/racing day :mad:

Those figures are high especially considering NYRA doesn't race 350 days a year. I do not know the correct number, but I would estimate its more along the lines of 270 days a year (if someone wants to pipe in with true number feel free). Just for illustration purposes using 270 days, that translates to $4,444 per racing day for NYRA and between $5,555 and $7,407 per racing day shouldered by the horsement for a combined cost of $9,999 to 11,851 per racing day additional costs in having a detention barn.

The skeptical side of me is thinking this is an area where there is an incentive to round up the figures. I know things are more expensive in New York but if it really does costs 10 to 12K a day in combined NYRA/horsemen costs to have the detention barn, well they may have some bigger issues that need to be addressed from a fiscal perspective, especially since I don't think they are getting any money any time soon and they needed to have been slashing staff and stuff like other tracks have been doing the past two years.

[Relwob Owner]

Is this the action of a "major league" race track?
Bad decision, NYRA. :ThmbDown:


I would hope there is more to this story explaining why this is being done but if it is due to cost, I would put it in the "penny-wise, pound foolish" column. Proximity made a great point earlier in the thread about how horsemen like Violette may feel different once some of the Mid Atlantic super trainers start coming up there more, when in the past they stayed away....as someone who runs against them often, I can say it isnt easy......

[OTM Al]

Glad you all read the whole article. Last paragraph says

"Hayward said that in lieu of the security-barn, NYRA would likely stipulate two to three races a day that would be subject to pre-race carbon dioxide testing, akin to what Keeneland does. Other testing measures would be considered as well."

Welcome to the minor leagues Keeneland....

[Tom]

Which method offers the most protection to the bettors?

[Relwob Owner]

Glad you all read the whole article. Last paragraph says

"Hayward said that in lieu of the security-barn, NYRA would likely stipulate two to three races a day that would be subject to pre-race carbon dioxide testing, akin to what Keeneland does. Other testing measures would be considered as well."

Welcome to the minor leagues Keeneland....


The words "likely" and vague references like "two to three", along with saying that other testing measures "would be considered"_nothing concrete there and doenst fill me with confidence.....that is like saying you are "open to" something and gives you an easy way to back out later......

[cj]

Al always takes the side of NYRA. Not saying it is a bad thing to have some balance.

[OTM Al]

Which method offers the most protection to the bettors?

I don't know. But if it can be shown a new method is as good as the detention barn as far as keeping violations at a minimum and is cheaper to do, then it should be done. If Keeneland is lauded as doing everything right, following a system they developed should work should it not? Further, it would put less stress on the horses. No detention barn freakouts the bettor knows nothing about would also protect the bettor.

[OTM Al]

Al always takes the side of NYRA. Not saying it is a bad thing to have some balance.

Actually on this I wasn't going to because the original poster made it seem that they were going from detention barn to nothing, but that was not the case. I am somewhat skeptical, but what is wrong with changing the way things are done if it can be shown it would result in no worse a level of medical positives, would leave the horses more at ease in their regular stalls, and would save a considerable amount of money? In any business its always worth looking at the way you do things and trying to find better techniques.

[cj]

Actually on this I wasn't going to because the original poster made it seem that they were going from detention barn to nothing, but that was not the case. I am somewhat skeptical, but what is wrong with changing the way things are done if it can be shown it would result in no worse a level of medical positives, would leave the horses more at ease in their regular stalls, and would save a considerable amount of money? In any business its always worth looking at the way you do things and trying to find better techniques.

There is nothing wrong with it. But, like you, I'm skeptical. It seems like the idea was thrown in to stem negative reaction. You don't do this without a specific plan already in place if the reason is a better, cheaper system.

For the record, I think NYRA is the best racing organization around for the fan. I also think this move is more political and related to previous financial announcements.

[FenceBored]

Those figures are high especially considering NYRA doesn't race 350 days a year. I do not know the correct number, but I would estimate its more along the lines of 270 days a year (if someone wants to pipe in with true number feel free). Just for illustration purposes using 270 days, that translates to $4,444 per racing day for NYRA and between $5,555 and $7,407 per racing day shouldered by the horsement for a combined cost of $9,999 to 11,851 per racing day additional costs in having a detention barn.

The skeptical side of me is thinking this is an area where there is an incentive to round up the figures. I know things are more expensive in New York but if it really does costs 10 to 12K a day in combined NYRA/horsemen costs to have the detention barn, well they may have some bigger issues that need to be addressed from a fiscal perspective, especially since I don't think they are getting any money any time soon and they needed to have been slashing staff and stuff like other tracks have been doing the past two years.

:ThmbUp: Nice estimate. 2009 ARM puts the figure for NYRA 2008 racing days at 250 (Aqu 119, Bel 95, Sar 36).

[proximity]

In addition to those costs, Hayward said that NYRA has seen a drop in out-of-town shippers from 1,400 in 2005 to 600 in 2009.


and mr hayward is saying this is a BAD thing??:confused:

this one sentence speaks volumes about our game.

[miesque]

:ThmbUp: Nice estimate. 2009 ARM puts the figure for NYRA 2008 racing days at 250 (Aqu 119, Bel 95, Sar 36).

Thanks for the info, I actually originally was going to put 260 but it seemed a tad low which is why I bumped it to 270 as I didn't know how many days were taken off at the various breaks.

At 250 days, it comes out to $4,800/racing day expense for NYRA and $6,000 - $8,000/racing day for the horsement for a combined economic impact of $10,800 to $12,800 per racing day.

[cj]

and mr hayward is saying this is a BAD thing??:confused:

this one sentence speaks volumes about our game.

I think he is saying it makes the need for a detention barn less.

[FenceBored]

and mr hayward is saying this is a BAD thing??:confused:

this one sentence speaks volumes about our game.

It could be his perspective. If your goal is to attract the best and most horses to run at your track, regardless of where they're based, then something that is linked to a reduction in shippers might imply a reduction in the attractiveness of your venue.

I'm not sure that implication is correct in this case. 2010 ARM not being out yet, we'll have to use 2008 numbers from the 2009 edition.

2005 NYRA starters: 17,968 (2317 races, Avg Strs 7.75)
2008 NYRA starters: 18,769 (2326 races, Avg Strs 8.07)

If shippers are down, it doesn't seem to be hurting the starter figures.

[proximity]

I think he is saying it makes the need for a detention barn less.

and i was saying that the barn's mere presence is keeping away 800 nefariously connected horses a year!!

(although expanded slots opportunities may account for some of the decline)

[Relwob Owner]

and i was saying that the barn's mere presence is keeping away 800 nefariously connected horses a year!!

()


That is right on taget IMO and is something that those that are in support of having no detention barn are missing........however, if it means getting those "nefarious" entities in NY and less where I run, I guess I then have no issue with it....

[proximity]

If shippers are down, it doesn't seem to be hurting the starter figures.

i imagine it takes less out of your horses when you're not facing rivals who hardly decelerate!!

[cj]

and i was saying that the barn's mere presence is keeping away 800 nefariously connected horses a year!!

(although expanded slots opportunities may account for some of the decline)

Gotcha. I think slots have more to do with it as you mention. Most tracks want all the shippers they can get to fill fields...except Penn!

[cj]

It could be his perspective. If your goal is to attract the best and most horses to run at your track, regardless of where they're based, then something that is linked to a reduction in shippers might imply a reduction in the attractiveness of your venue.

I'm not sure that implication is correct in this case. 2010 ARM not being out yet, we'll have to use 2008 numbers from the 2009 edition.

2005 NYRA starters: 17,968 (2317 races, Avg Strs 7.75)
2008 NYRA starters: 18,769 (2326 races, Avg Strs 8.07)

If shippers are down, it doesn't seem to be hurting the starter figures.

I don't have the exact numbers now, but NYRA definitely increased the number of opportunities for NY breds a bunch.

[jeebus1083]

It could be his perspective. If your goal is to attract the best and most horses to run at your track, regardless of where they're based, then something that is linked to a reduction in shippers might imply a reduction in the attractiveness of your venue.

I'm not sure that implication is correct in this case. 2010 ARM not being out yet, we'll have to use 2008 numbers from the 2009 edition.

2005 NYRA starters: 17,968 (2317 races, Avg Strs 7.75)
2008 NYRA starters: 18,769 (2326 races, Avg Strs 8.07)

If shippers are down, it doesn't seem to be hurting the starter figures.

The starter figures aren't hurt because the number of Statebred races has increased gradually over the course of the last several years. Open mid-claimers and straight allowance conditions have become a rarity in NY, because the horses needed to fill those conditions are being raced elsewhere. Way back in 2005, when NYRA started carding more statebred races and the number of starters in the open ranks declined, I posed a simple question: Why would trainers ship into New York for open company races, and be subjected to detention barn politics, when they stay at home, avoid such scrutiny, and race for essentially the same money? What about the horses that "freak" in the detention barn? Why race them in New York when they can race out-of-town for just about the same purse?

Bottom line, trainers want racing officials out of their hair. Sure, the few have ruined it for the many, but has the detention barn program really benefited racing in New York? This was supposed to have leveled the playing field so that everybody had a fair and square chance to win, yet the same "supertrainers" who dominated racing in NY in 2005 are still dominating racing in NY in 2010.

Just like the health care summit in progress on Capitol Hill, the detention barn was nothing more than a dog and pony show, designed to give off the perception that racing in NY is the most trustworthy product out there.

[proximity]

Gotcha. I think slots have more to do with it as you mention. Most tracks want all the shippers they can get to fill fields...except Penn!

maybe nyra can just give the detention barns to michael gill!!:)

is there a jockey agent up there that JAMESGILL can contact about this??:D

[cj]

The starter figures aren't hurt because the number of Statebred races has increased gradually over the course of the last several years. Open mid-claimers and straight allowance conditions have become a rarity in NY, because the horses needed to fill those conditions are being raced elsewhere. ...


All true, and lets not forget the advent of turf sprints in New York as well.

[jeebus1083]

Gotcha. I think slots have more to do with it as you mention. Most tracks want all the shippers they can get to fill fields...except Penn!

With Philly Park leading the way on slots in the Mid-Atlantic, the discontinuation of the detention barn program in NY might not make much of a difference. The money for mid-claimers is in Pennsylvania, not New York.

[cj]

With Philly Park leading the way on slots in the Mid-Atlantic, the discontinuation of the detention barn program in NY might not make much of a difference. The money for mid-claimers is in Pennsylvania, not New York.

I agree. There are no real claimers in New York any longer. The claiming races in New York used to be awesome. Now they suck.

[miesque]

and i was saying that the barn's mere presence is keeping away 800 nefariously connected horses a year!!

(although expanded slots opportunities may account for some of the decline)

I am pretty sure that part of the reduction is in fact due to slot fueled purses in other states, but have no idea how much is due to that versus the detention barn deterrent. One thing to keep in mind that there are additional costs involved in shipping a horse to New York as there are some fees levied on the trainer each year the first time he enters a horse (I think those are worker comp or other insurance related expenses) which they either do not pay in other states or pay at a much reduced rate (this is why there are some trainers who ship horses to New York under another trainers name and split the revenue with them). Unfortunately, right now I don't have time to find the specific number and purposes of these fees. Also shipping in tends to be more expensive. As a result, as purses have risen in several Mid-Atlantic venues, its makes less and less sense from a monetary perspective to ship to New York and in that case the detention barn is just the cherry on top so to speak. Looking from the outside in, I would think the biggest impact the detention barn has had would be on the stakes shippers, so I would be curious to see a breakdown on the decrease of shippers in for the different types of races.

[proximity]

One thing to keep in mind that there are additional costs involved in shipping a horse to New York as there are some fees levied on the trainer each year the first time he enters a horse (I think those are worker comp or other insurance related expenses) which they either do not pay in other states or pay at a much reduced rate (this is why there are some trainers who ship horses to New York under another trainers name and split the revenue with them)......

did these additional costs and fees not exist prior to 2006?

[OTM Al]

There is nothing wrong with it. But, like you, I'm skeptical. It seems like the idea was thrown in to stem negative reaction. You don't do this without a specific plan already in place if the reason is a better, cheaper system.

For the record, I think NYRA is the best racing organization around for the fan. I also think this move is more political and related to previous financial announcements.

Of that I agree wholeheartedly, but I have to believe they understand the perception of the drug problem and know that something effective must remain in place. Options need to be explored and plans made before a policy change

[miesque]

did these additional costs and fees not exist prior to 2006?

Yes they did, but purse levels in PA at that point were substantially lower than they are now. I brought it up to illustrate the additional costs involved with shipping to NY relative to shipping within the Mid-Atlantic or staying put if you are at a slots track. It makes much less sense to ship now then it used to where there was more of a purse discrepancy after everything is taken into consideration, hence the number of shippers, at least from slot rich aras, should decrease.

[Tom]

I don't know. But if it can be shown a new method is as good as the detention barn as far as keeping violations at a minimum and is cheaper to do, then it should be done. If Keeneland is lauded as doing everything right, following a system they developed should work should it not? Further, it would put less stress on the horses. No detention barn freakouts the bettor knows nothing about would also protect the bettor.

So NYRA should look at putting in poly, too? ;)

[joanied]

Originally Posted by OTM Al
I don't know. But if it can be shown a new method is as good as the detention barn as far as keeping violations at a minimum and is cheaper to do, then it should be done. If Keeneland is lauded as doing everything right, following a system they developed should work should it not? Further, it would put less stress on the horses. No detention barn freakouts the bettor knows nothing about would also protect the bettor.




I agree with this...the betting public has no clue as to what goes on in the D barn...so I assume a better way of regulating entires should be done, and if it's to follow what Keeneland did, so be it.
I can sympathize with the trainers...most horses just cannot deal with being in the D barn...for hours at a time...they know it's race day, and going from their home barn over to the D barn just gets them confused and upset.

Another reason they may be wanting to make this change is that the Mosses flat out told NYRA they won't ship into Belmont because of the D barn...so if they want Zenyatta in NY, they have to make a change...wether or not they admit that this is one reason for this.

[OTM Al]

So NYRA should look at putting in poly, too? ;)

Had the stuff really been just like dirt but safer it would be the right thing to do but it appears that it is not and it is not.

[Grits]

Maybe no one has read the DRF piece in its entirety. Though in starting the thread, I simply used the headline the DRF wrote. As the original poster of the thread, I didn't imply that any move was good or bad by only posting the link.

"These proposals are expected to be brought up before NYRA's board of trustees at its monthly meeting scheduled for next Wednesday in Manhattan."

With this quote, one has to understand, there's order to all of this. Knowing they have to cut costs, aware of their problems, Hayward & Co, need to bring something to the table for this upcoming meeting scheduled for next Wednesday, March 3rd. How many would go before their board of trustees that they are responsible to--without, first, making a presentation of what, at this particular point, they are recommending, citing as proposals?

After cost cutting measures have been presented, agreed upon, funds have been cut, or freed up, then, they are able to move forward with the more definitive plan to build on, or whatever. One has to have a starting point. Simply noting, sometimes such corporate moves come step by step. In other words, "we don't have all the answers laid out before you today, as that would be presumptuous; but here are our preliminary ideas."

"According to NYRA CEO and president Charles Hayward, the race-day security barn costs NYRA $1.2 million annually to run. It costs the horsemen approximately $1.5 to $2 million annually to staff it, according to trainer Rick Violette, president of the New York Thoroughbred Horsemen's Association and a member of the NYRA board. Closing Aqueduct's stabling area should save NYRA $300,000 a month, Hayward said."

The elephant in the room?

For those finding fault with NYRA, maybe there's more to be considered here. There's certainly more in the story, and its not at the bottom of the page in fine print, its not an afterthought. Its in the first paragraph.

Everyone is only concerned about the detention barn, no one has noted a word regarding the proposal of the closing of Aqueduct's stabling area. And in categorizing costly overuns, this is a big move.

Miesque did a good job on the math as far as the detention barn goes, believing NYRA's stated figure of 1.2 million high, going with the figure of $4,800 a day cost to NYRA for 250 days, this is a LARGE sum to keep a detention bar open on each day of racing throughout the year.

If one recalls the edition of days tacked on to the Saratoga meet, recently, the 250 days a year, might extend to relatively 260 days of racing.

Now, in fairness, and this is my point here. Fairness.

Hayward's figures further note that it cost NYRA $300,000 a month to keep Aqueduct's stabling area open, while their meet only runs from, what . . . . November to April--or 6 months. (IF I'm right on this.)

With the closing of Big A's stable area, there's another added savings. A substantial one IF IT DOES remain open throughout the entire year. (And on this, I'm not fully clear, TLG, or someone else would know.) If this is the case, wouldn't this be a considerable added savings proposed by NYRA, and one greater than doing away with the detention barn? The detention barn being a gain of 1.2 million, while closing the stables the other 6 months, 1.8 million, just short of $2 million. This is a big factor and a vital one to their proposal that shouldn't be ignored. Though I could be wrong, of course, if the stabling area is not used year round and we're not talking a full six month period at $300k per month.

NYRA has problems, big ones. It does seem they're trying to work towards solutions. NYRA is not Keeneland. One is vast, with multiple tracks and costs, year round. The other is small, flush with cash, and only six weeks. There is tremendous difficulty in comparing the two.

[Relwob Owner]

NYRA has problems, big ones. It does seem they're trying to work towards solutions. NYRA is not Keeneland. One is vast, with multiple tracks and costs, year round. The other is small, flush with cash, and only six weeks. There is tremendous difficulty in comparing the two.[/QUOTE]

:ThmbUp:


Keeneland to Aqueduct is apples to oranges and I was confused by the initial comparison.....I had tried to think of how to convey this once I saw the comparison and couldnt quite nail it down....you have done it extremely well-a great thought from a great post IMO

[Charlie D]

After reading this article and thread. I'm not sure if i should make a Doctor's appointment for depression or not.

[Robert Goren]

After reading this article and thread. I'm not sure if i should make a Doctor's appointment for depression or not.Yes, you should. I know I have.;)

[Moyers Pond]

Good for NYRA, starting to make some good decisions.

NY racing is the best in the country, and it is the most poorly run. Maybe NYRA will get it's act together, close down Aqueduct and get Belmont (probably the best track in the country) running 10 months a year.

[Charlie D]

Good for NYRA, starting to make some good decisions.

NY racing is the best in the country, and it is the most poorly run. Maybe NYRA will get it's act together, close down Aqueduct and get Belmont (probably the best track in the country) running 10 months a year.


Stop it MP, otherwise i will certainly need a Doctors appointment.

[46zilzal]

Good for NYRA, starting to make some good decisions.

NY racing is the best in the country, and it is the most poorly run. Maybe NYRA will get it's act together, close down Aqueduct and get Belmont (probably the best track in the country) running 10 months a year.
Belmont could not go that long as it is not set up for the cold..

A fact sorely obvious one year on a cold Breeder's Cup Saturday.

[Moyers Pond]

Belmont could not go that long as it is not set up for the cold..

A fact sorely obvious one year on a cold Breeder's Cup Saturday.

Belmont could easily be set up for the cold. The state could sell the Aqueduct land for $100 million and use some of the money to rebuild Belmont to 21st century standards.

Belmont should become the only 3 surface track in America. Tapeta on the inside, dirt in the middle, grass on the outside.

[Charlie D]

Sell Belmont and Saratoga imho and run Inner all year :)

[46zilzal]

You do not sell the hallowed ground where both Man O'War and Secretariat raced.

[Charlie D]

Ask Andy, Jason and Eric to take a pay cut and do it more as a labour of love. That should save NYRA a fair wedge.

[proximity]

After reading this article and thread. I'm not sure if i should make a Doctor's appointment for depression or not.

dude, you're turning green.

i'd skip the doctor and go with a shot of snail venom, a milkshake, and a session or two in the hyperbaric chamber. :)

[proximity]

Ask Andy, Jason and Eric to take a pay cut and do it more as a labour of love. That should save NYRA a fair wedge.

actually, they'll probably get raises but be sent to the slots section like fred lipkin at penn national.....:eek:

[Charlie D]

dude, you're turning green.

i'd skip the doctor and go with a shot of snail venom, a milkshake, and a session or two in the hyperbaric chamber. :)


:)


I should be OK proximity after a dose of Trips & Traps

[Relwob Owner]

Belmont could easily be set up for the cold. The state could sell the Aqueduct land for $100 million and use some of the money to rebuild Belmont to 21st century standards.

Belmont should become the only 3 surface track in America. Tapeta on the inside, dirt in the middle, grass on the outside.


Yeah, re-build Belmont.....that makes sound business sense with so many people coming out to the track and not betting off track and from home, right?

[Moyers Pond]

Yeah, re-build Belmont.....that makes sound business sense with so many people coming out to the track and not betting off track and from home, right?

Belmont should be a racino. With all the money on Long Island that place would be a gold mine. Poker, slots, and races. The only problem would be the mob.

Personally I think cash strapped states are going to soon allow sports betting and I think Belmont is the perfect spot for a Vegas type casino with hotel and racing.

[Relwob Owner]

Belmont should be a racino. With all the money on Long Island that place would be a gold mine. Poker, slots, and races. The only problem would be the mob.

Personally I think cash strapped states are going to soon allow sports betting and I think Belmont is the perfect spot for a Vegas type casino with hotel and racing.


You seem to have it all figured out......

[Moyers Pond]

You seem to have it all figured out......

When I was at Saratoga last summer a guy that developed commercial real estate like Walgreens told me that it was a no brainer and would be a done deal in 10 years from now. Apparently people get tired of seeing valuable real estate used to store cars for a car dealership, which I guess is what the Belmont parking lot is used for.

[Tom]

Did that guy sell you a tip on the double too? :cool:

[Relwob Owner]

When I was at Saratoga last summer a guy that developed commercial real estate like Walgreens told me that it was a no brainer and would be a done deal in 10 years from now. Apparently people get tired of seeing valuable real estate used to store cars for a car dealership, which I guess is what the Belmont parking lot is used for.


In these economic times, I find it funny that you are taking tips from a commercial real estate developer.....that cant miss.

10 years seems like a long time for a "no brainer" to pan out


Did your friend have any insight on how laws would get passed allowing sports gambling in New York and the impact that would have on the "no-brainer"?

[Moyers Pond]

Did that guy sell you a tip on the double too? :cool:

No, but he did tell me that Aqueduct will NEVER get slots. :D

I guess he knows Albany better than NYRA. Must be somebody with Albany connections that wants to buy the Aqueduct land for something and also develop Belmont Park into a casino. It is NY, and the guy who buys the most politicians wins.

[Relwob Owner]

[QUOTE=Moyers Pond]No, but he did tell me that Aqueduct will NEVER get slots. :D


I dont even understand your emoticons.....

[Moyers Pond]

In these economic times, I find it funny that you are taking tips from a commercial real estate developer.....that cant miss.

10 years seems like a long time for a "no brainer" to pan out


Did your friend have any insight on how laws would get passed allowing sports gambling in New York and the impact that would have on the "no-brainer"?

Actually he got out of the business and retired. He used to do some type of deals where he built Walgreens and leased them back or something like that. He was involved in Indian casinos in CT, so he must know something.

[Relwob Owner]

Actually he got out of the business and retired. He used to do some type of deals where he built Walgreens and leased them back or something like that. He was involved in Indian casinos in CT, so he must know something.


Sounds like a winner...

[Dahoss9698]

I can top Moyers Pond's fantasy stories.

Last summer, while at Saratoga I got a chance to talk to Santa Claus. He was there on vacation, said he likes to go at least once a year. Anyway, he told me that eventually Belmont is going to be turned into a racetrack for reindeer within 10 years. The meet will run from March until Saratoga opens.

Apparently reindeer racing is very popular in make believe world. The only thing holding it back is they are trying to figure out who is going to ride the reindeer. They are in between the elves that make toys and small robots. It's looking like the elves are the favorite though as this will give them something to do during their slow months of the year.

It's a win-win for everyone involved.

[Relwob Owner]

I can top Moyers Pond's fantasy stories.

Last summer, while at Saratoga I got a chance to talk to Santa Claus. He was there on vacation, said he likes to go at least once a year. Anyway, he told me that eventually Belmont is going to be turned into a racetrack for reindeer within 10 years. The meet will run from March until Saratoga opens.

Apparently reindeer racing is very popular in make believe world. The only thing holding it back is they are trying to figure out who is going to ride the reindeer. They are in between the elves that make toys and small robots. It's looking like the elves are the favorite though as this will give them something to do during their slow months of the year.

It's a win-win for everyone involved.



That is top notch......

[PaceAdvantage]

That is top notch......I concur...it isn't often I actually laugh out loud while reading this board, despite my frequent use of the emoticon...:lol:

[Saratoga_Mike]

I concur...it isn't often I actually laugh out loud while reading this board, despite my frequent use of the emoticon...:lol:

I third the motion - it was just damn funny. Pace, I hope you can feature it somewhere, so everyone gets to see it.

[johnhannibalsmith]

I can top Moyers Pond's fantasy stories.

Last summer, while at Saratoga I got a chance to talk to Santa Claus. He was there on vacation, said he likes to go at least once a year. Anyway, he told me that eventually Belmont is going to be turned into a racetrack for reindeer within 10 years. The meet will run from March until Saratoga opens.

Apparently reindeer racing is very popular in make believe world. The only thing holding it back is they are trying to figure out who is going to ride the reindeer. They are in between the elves that make toys and small robots. It's looking like the elves are the favorite though as this will give them something to do during their slow months of the year.

It's a win-win for everyone involved.

Great - just what New York racing needs - another not-for-profit moron calling the shots. :D