Would you change....

[Ejmenz]

The triple crown age requirements to 4 year olds, and the QH series to 3 year olds.

I'm a traditionalist and I generally dislike any changes to the triple crown races.

I just can't think of one single drawback to allowing these athletes to mature an extra year.

Would you make this change if you controlled racing?

[Stillriledup]

All racetracks should band together and write into the conditions that horses sired by a stallion that isn't at least 6 years old are ineligible. This would prevent owners from retiring horses early. Its not rocket science.

[johnhannibalsmith]

Do you also plan on banning two-year-old races? If not, then it won't be long before the 4yo. Triple Crown loses its appeal.

I can't stand pressing on young horses, but my personal sentiments aside, there are quite a few drawbacks to this theory - just to start off the exhaustive list - the entire racing calendar is largely turned on its head.

[Stillriledup]

Do you also plan on banning two-year-old races? If not, then it won't be long before the 4yo. Triple Crown loses its appeal.

I can't stand pressing on young horses, but my personal sentiments aside, there are quite a few drawbacks to this theory - just to start off the exhaustive list - the entire racing calendar is largely turned on its head.

Ban 2 year old races in March. Santa Anita has no morals, they run the 2 year olds so early. Just don't write 2 year old races until june or july, at least that way, the horses have a few more months to grow.

[lamboguy]

where did this thing come from? the only thing right about this sport and you all want to change things and make at best ZERO good reasons for wanting your change.

you guys have proven that you don't have a clue what goes into training and getting horses to run. to relate this to human babies, its like telling a baby that at age 2 its to early to walk, or at age 2 its to early to learn how to talk, you are probably thinking that the baby should wait until he is 10 years old to get a good start on life. i am going to tell you what will happen if you do it your way, you will have retarede childen, and with horses you will have retarded horses.

[lamboguy]

Ban 2 year old races in March. Santa Anita has no morals, they run the 2 year olds so early. Just don't write 2 year old races until june or july, at least that way, the horses have a few more months to grow.as long as the knees are closed its ok to run 2 yo's around a turn. i don't suggest running before the knees are closed. and please keep in mind that those early 2 yo's are generally early foals that have already been through months of training.

i find the ones that i have had that have started in the early 2 yo races have had a longer racing life than those that have started later. i know that is not the case for all trainers that run early, my horses all have good bottoms under neath them and it would be a crime not to run them.

[Hanover1]

Time and tradition are tough competitors to change. We breed for early speed, age wise, and certain bloodlines are known for precocious 2yr olds. Why would I want to drop a half mill on a colt, only to watch him go around in circles for umpteen months before I have a chance at the real action? I pay some guy $150-$200 dollars a day (and up), and he tells me we won't be ready for another year? huh??????
Granted, certain horses are growthy and need time to mature, but that is usually determined in the sales ring (or before), and it is known going into training what the game plan is, i.e. a start or 2 as a 2yr old, or not. Look at poor Teuflesburg. He had, what? some 12 starts prior to the Derby? I always felt they went to much with that horse...........

[Robert Goren]

It is not the 2 yo that break down on the race track. If you want stop break downs ban 6+ yo, maybe even 5 yo. JMO

[46zilzal]

It is not the 2 yo that break down on the race track. If you want stop break downs ban 6+ yo, maybe even 5 yo. JMO
No ban the medications and re-introduce some Arabian blood stock and BONE density.

The ORGANISM is weak and the drugs only hide the normal tissue inflammation.

[sandpit]

Time and tradition are tough competitors to change. We breed for early speed, age wise, and certain bloodlines are known for precocious 2yr olds. Why would I want to drop a half mill on a colt, only to watch him go around in circles for umpteen months before I have a chance at the real action? I pay some guy $150-$200 dollars a day (and up), and he tells me we won't be ready for another year? huh??????
Granted, certain horses are growthy and need time to mature, but that is usually determined in the sales ring (or before), and it is known going into training what the game plan is, i.e. a start or 2 as a 2yr old, or not. Look at poor Teuflesburg. He had, what? some 12 starts prior to the Derby? I always felt they went to much with that horse...........

If you saw the way Teufelsburg's shedrow was ran, you would be even more amazed the horse performed the way he did.

[Hanover1]

If you saw the way Teufelsburg's shedrow was ran, you would be even more amazed the horse performed the way he did.
I recall as much myself.....Seems that horse ran everywhere, on all surfaces. Where were the advocates then? they drilled that horse a ton......

[WinterTriangle]

It is not the 2 yo that break down on the race track. If you want stop break downs ban 6+ yo, maybe even 5 yo. JMO

Racing shouldn't interfere with the "natural world" in terms of how horses mature and grow.

Horses are really at their best at 4-6+, IMHO.

robert, you're making such a leap in logic. Horses break down in the age you mention BECAUSE they have been drugged, injured, and the bone density and musculoskeletal system wasn't ready and wasn't allowed to fully mature. What you are seeing in the age group you mention is the OUTCOME of that, not the age.

If you have horses, then you know horses are not old at 6......not even near!


My practical side says do not race at 2. Train yes, but no racing with weight on back. Other practical side says if purchasing as yearling, economic disaster waiting 'til 3 to race.

So, let's face it.......we race 'em young due to economics, not musculoskeletal system development.

[LottaKash]

I thought why, not begin a "triple crown" for 4-yolds ?...I believe that it would, at it's least, strike some "new interest" in the sport, given that so many of the really good horses are retired to stud-duty at such an early age...Perhaps, it would give a boost to fan interest in that regard...

One could only imagine what a "Double Triple Crown" could do for a horse's resume....I realize that a double-triple is a longshot possibility, but I think that, if a horse could get say, 4 out of 6 in the double-triple, that would be a very meanigful endorsement to a horse's power, stamina and endurance credentials...I know that I, as a prospective breeder or owner, would view a slam-bang record in the double triple series, quite an accomplishment, and it would give much weight in my breeding or owning options/decisions....

Imo, horse racing, as it is today, is sorely lacking in superstars, past the age of 3.....I love 4yr-olds and I pay much attention to this aspect in my handicapping...A sound, mature race horse with lots of ability always gets my full attention...

[lamboguy]

That's a crazy idea...we wouldn't have horses like Lava Man, John Henry, Evening Attire, ect.
Why would you suggest something like that...if a horse is sound enough to reach that age in his career, he's sound enough to keep racing until he/she 'tells' his connections otherwise...
we're trying to get horses to stay around for a while...

Ban all drugs, use common sense in the breeding shed, take the youngsters along slowly, encourage more pre race vet checks that are complete checks, just not to usual jog him down the shed row and back sorta thing.
have to agree with you on those points.

[WinterTriangle]

Knowing horses thru racing gives a skewed timeline. We are talking about a species whose life expectancy is 25-30 years.

There is a difference between growing and maturing.
TBs are bred to grow fast early.....deceiving........2 year olds are 'babies'. They can be 17h high and yet have musculoskeletal systems that are completely immature, the legs aren't anywhere near to "ripe".

Lambo, show me research where a TBs knees are fully closed at less than 4 or 5? I'd be interested in seeing more than one study.

[joanied]

have to agree with you on those points.

I was also adding a bunch of stuff to my post, lambo...but i went over the 10 minute timeline, so couldn't get it posted...and i don't feel like re typing it all and getting my thoughts sorted out again...gggrrr!!
Maybe later:faint:

[Hanover1]

One has to look at the average age and work load of horses competing on the Rolex curcuit (cross country, ect...) and then decide what a well developed and sturdy horse is, and it is not a 2yr old.......

[lamboguy]

I was also adding a bunch of stuff to my post, lambo...but i went over the 10 minute timeline, so couldn't get it posted...and i don't feel like re typing it all and getting my thoughts sorted out again...gggrrr!!
Maybe later:faint:you did fine, no need for more

[joanied]

you did fine, no need for more

Does that mean you don't want to 'hear' more from me, lambo:D ...
now, just for you...

I talked about the fact that a horse's future possibility of being a hurting horse starts when they are babies...mostly about exercise and nutrition, and how easy it is for them to come up with problems because of lack of exercise and nutrition that is even slightly off, which causes problems like contracted tendons...and once that happens and they get started on a 'program' to correct the problems, the future becomes less bright.

I also mentioned that since we all know the TC will forever be for 3 yr olds, that it would be a great idea to bring back the old Handicap Triple Crown...3 prestigious races, 3 huge purses, and IMO, we'd see more horses race beyond 3 yrs old.

I also suggested that the TC races start a bit later...the Derby could be moved to mid-late June...but, of course, that'd mean moving several other races, so maybe it wouldn't work.

I know I said a few more things...but you get my drift...lamboguy;)

[lamboguy]

Does that mean you don't want to 'hear' more from me, lambo:D ...
now, just for you...

I talked about the fact that a horse's future possibility of being a hurting horse starts when they are babies...mostly about exercise and nutrition, and how easy it is for them to come up with problems because of lack of exercise and nutrition that is even slightly off, which causes problems like contracted tendons...and once that happens and they get started on a 'program' to correct the problems, the future becomes less bright.

I also mentioned that since we all know the TC will forever be for 3 yr olds, that it would be a great idea to bring back the old Handicap Triple Crown...3 prestigious races, 3 huge purses, and IMO, we'd see more horses race beyond 3 yrs old.

I also suggested that the TC races start a bit later...the Derby could be moved to mid-late June...but, of course, that'd mean moving several other races, so maybe it wouldn't work.

I know I said a few more things...but you get my drift...lamboguy;)we are on the same page, its all about the horse's saftey and wellbeing.

[joanied]

we are on the same page, its all about the horse's saftey and wellbeing.

:)

[BlueShoe]

re-introduce some Arabian blood stock and BONE density.
Have thought of this before, and it might be a good idea. With the speed crazy breeding mindset, injecting some Arab blood back into the line might improve stamina and soundness. But is it practical, and would breeders accept it? First off, would the offspring be approved by the stud book and be registered, or rejected as not being TB's? Arabs are very slow compared to TB's, so it could be two or three generations of selective breeding to show results. The idea of a one quarter or one eighth Arab winning at long distances and having long, sound careers in an intriguing one, but there are some questions.

[Space Monkey]

I don't believe we should race them at 2. The "no siring until 6" idea is intriguing. I also would like the Derby field reduced to 16, at most. Times have changed, but like other sports, we are slow to adapt. Also, like other sports, the integrity of the game is compromised for profit.

[Johnny V]

The triple crown age requirements to 4 year olds, and the QH series to 3 year olds.

I'm a traditionalist and I generally dislike any changes to the triple crown races.

I just can't think of one single drawback to allowing these athletes to mature an extra year.

Would you make this change if you controlled racing?
I would keep the TC races for three year olds and I think it is very unlikely that that would ever be changed. There is more of a chance that they would change the distance of the races, however unlikely, than go to 4 year olds. Some trainers have suggested shortening the distances, Lukas was one I believe. I am also against that as well.

[maxwell]

Congratulations to all you Roman Senators ( 83% ) who voted for lions versus Christians as opposed to Christians versus goats.

I couldn't help but laugh when I saw this thread.

Good nighty night. :sleeping:

[nijinski]

I wouldn't change the TC races but I wouldn't miss the BC Juvenile .