California OTBs bleeding red ink since 2005

[DJofSD]

http://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-racing/articles/55488/words-of-warning-for-california-satellites?source=rss

And closing San Luis Ray training track to boot.

[andymays]

They need sports betting on track and satellite only to bring people to these facilities.

Brackpool sounds like a no nonsense leader.

http://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-racing/articles/55488/words-of-warning-for-california-satellites?source=rss

Excerpt:

Brackpool, a native of London, England, who owns a few Thoroughbreds and lives in Santa Monica, brought a crispness to the CHRB meeting that has been missing with board chairmen during the past decade. This was just his third meeting since being appointed by Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger last fall.

He admonished several speakers for straying from the focus of agenda topics and said that the detailed discussions that have previously dominated meetings would instead be handled by board committees. The result was immediately noticeable. A meeting that would have routinely lasted five hours was over in less than half that time.

And he said the usual excuses for California racing's decline would no longer be acceptable.

"I'm hearing that we've tried everything and nothing works. I just don't get it," he said. "I refuse to believe we've tried everything. I refuse to believe that we are dealing with a shrinking pie."

[Charlie D]

The TOC recently assisted SCOTWINC by agreeing to shift some of its ADW revenue from purses. Marsha Naify, the TOC's chair, said the satellite wagering system "is sort of a quagmire," but said that after its current memorandum of understanding expires on June 30, there must be improvements.

"Otherwise, we will no longer support a failed business model," she said, concurring with Brackpool.



So is your sport and latter is exactly what the bettor is doing, i think.


Wake up for gawds sake.

[Charlie D]

"I'm hearing that we've tried everything and nothing works. I just don't get it," he said. "I refuse to believe we've tried everything. I refuse to believe that we are dealing with a shrinking pie."


Try doing away with raceday dope and a zero tolerance of those that break rules, try less racing of the same, so there are more competitive full fields, try opening up online wagering to anyone who wants to wager , try lowering take a % or two or three.


Get your sport on TV in UK, Mars, Pluto etc

Tell Arnie and Obama etc there is Oil to be struck if done right.

[rwwupl]

From article above:

And he said the usual excuses for California racing's decline would no longer be acceptable.

A good start for the new Chairman...And Oh yes, "Tried everything" what a lot of crap.

How about working on customer related issues, such as take out, racing surface back to dirt,uniform drug policy,integrity questions, representation and input to the CHRB and so forth.

Every issue adopted for years has served the horseman racetrack or themselves.

Put out a desirable product that your customers approve of and you will have more customers.

[Charlie D]

From article above:

.

Put out a desirable product that your customers approve of and you will have more customers.





Try listening to and acting on posts like this and you will change things. I think.



Why?? because the customer is always right.

[BlueShoe]

Jolting, but perhaps the wakeup call that the whole system needs. As a regular long time patron of SoCal otb sites, have certainly seen the decline in attendance, many previous familiar faces have vanished. Most of the sites do have a take it or leave it attitude, with the usual expected bureaucrat/union indifference to efficiency and customer service. Have never, ever been asked or polled, nor has anyone I know, about suggestions relating to improving the product and customer service. As for the CHRB meeting, just who the hell is this damn Limey Brackpool guy? Perhaps it is my deep dislike of foreigners giving orders to Americans, but he sounds like an arrogant sob. Or is he just the type that is needed to kick some behinds and make some needed changes? In the meantime, am going to alert my otb cronies that they had better learn to use computers and accept on line wagering. The possibility that many otb sites may close is disturbing, and if it happens, the handle will decrease sharply. Many patrons will not wager online, they will just quit the game.

[Mr. Nobody]

OTB customers are literally dying off. When I went into my local OTB after an absence of four or five years I saw the same faces, only looking much older - it was a scary sight. No one there was under 50. The customer base simply isn't being replenished. 20% takeout plus five bucks to get in the door plus $5.50 for a Racing Form and $2.50 for a program makes it a joke of a gambling game for the average guy who wants to have a bet and kill a few hours.

I see lots of young guys playing the $1-2 no-limit Hold 'em game at the local Indian Casino, and who can blame them. Costs only a $60 buy-in to get in the game and you have a much better chance of walking out a winner that you do at the OTB. Any young guy with a brain will chose poker over racing. The U.S. desperately needs a betting exchange if it wants to attract the young gambling dollar back to racing.

[Horseplayersbet.com]

Jolting, but perhaps the wakeup call that the whole system needs. As a regular long time patron of SoCal otb sites, have certainly seen the decline in attendance, many previous familiar faces have vanished. Most of the sites do have a take it or leave it attitude, with the usual expected bureaucrat/union indifference to efficiency and customer service. Have never, ever been asked or polled, nor has anyone I know, about suggestions relating to improving the product and customer service. As for the CHRB meeting, just who the hell is this damn Limey Brackpool guy? Perhaps it is my deep dislike of foreigners giving orders to Americans, but he sounds like an arrogant sob. Or is he just the type that is needed to kick some behinds and make some needed changes? In the meantime, am going to alert my otb cronies that they had better learn to use computers and accept on line wagering. The possibility that many otb sites may close is disturbing, and if it happens, the handle will decrease sharply. Many patrons will not wager online, they will just quit the game.
If indeed the track's bottom line suffers from the losses of OTBs, it means without them, their bottom line would be greater.
Does closing the OTBs mean smaller purses? Then it is a concern.
My question I guess is who is exactly losing the $5 million? Just the tracks? Or the tracks and the horsemen accounts combined? Or is someone else sharing in the losses?

[DJofSD]

One thing that would entice me, is being able to go to the OTB and playing any race from any track. Get rid of that ceiling of only being able import so many races from out of state.

[Charlie D]

five bucks to get in the door plus $5.50 for a Racing Form and $2.50 for a program




If UK high street bookies charged like above, the shops would be empty .

No entry fee, form pinned on walls for free, plus a couple of Racing Posts about and free tea and coffee on request.

[BlueShoe]

One thing that would entice me, is being able to go to the OTB and playing any race from any track. Get rid of that ceiling of only being able import so many races from out of state.
This is a huge negative, and one of the reasons why I enjoy an occasional extended trip to a Nevada racebook. Have looked at the simulcast menus of other states as well, and most of them are much more extensive than Californias. The more tracks and races that are offered, the more plays I will find. The more plays, the more money I will wager. The more money I wager, the more money the facility will make. Very simple, Economics 101. Why cant they get it? Would be quite happy to show up by 9:25 AM to bet the 1st at Tampa and Aqueduct, instead, we wait until just before 11 until we can start the day. While an expanded sino menu would by no means solve all of the problems, it surely would be a step in the right direction.

[toussaud]

this isn't rocket science.

youbet, xpressbet, twinspires all belong to public compaines and are all competing for the same customers.

some of those customers are now staying home instead of going to the OTB

when is the last time you heard TVG or HRTV advertise an OTB?


OTB's have little to no use when I can carry around an iphone and make bets from my phone while getting my hair cut at the barber shop.

[DJofSD]

They need sports betting on track and satellite only to bring people to these facilities.

Brackpool sounds like a no nonsense leader.

http://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-racing/articles/55488/words-of-warning-for-california-satellites?source=rss

Excerpt:

Brackpool, a native of London, England, who owns a few Thoroughbreds and lives in Santa Monica, brought a crispness to the CHRB meeting that has been missing with board chairmen during the past decade. This was just his third meeting since being appointed by Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger last fall.

He admonished several speakers for straying from the focus of agenda topics and said that the detailed discussions that have previously dominated meetings would instead be handled by board committees. The result was immediately noticeable. A meeting that would have routinely lasted five hours was over in less than half that time.

And he said the usual excuses for California racing's decline would no longer be acceptable.

"I'm hearing that we've tried everything and nothing works. I just don't get it," he said. "I refuse to believe we've tried everything. I refuse to believe that we are dealing with a shrinking pie."

What I perceive is a fresh point of view will be taken. It will not be breeder centric or dominated.

At some point the it will be understood that to survive, California racing needs to serve the citizens of California. I expect the economic factors far and away are dominated by the wagering dollar and not the owners and the breeders. Serve the punter and the rest will benefit too.

It's said an addict does not begin his recovery until he has truely hit rock bottom. Have the owners, breeders and trainers hit rock bottom yet? Only time will tell. But given the inevitable results of continuing to do business the way it has been done, they have nothing to lose by changing the mind set and giving the bettor what he wants. Don't keep p*ssing up my back and tell me it's raining.

[Charlie D]

this isn't rocket science.

youbet, xpressbet, twinspires all belong to public compaines and are all competing for the same customers.

some of those customers are now staying home instead of going to the OTB

when is the last time you heard TVG or HRTV advertise an OTB?


OTB's have little to no use when I can carry around an iphone and make bets from my phone while getting my hair cut at the barber shop.



Yes toussaud we live in a technological age, but what needs to be understood is, we are not ALL the same.

Some like the social aspect of going to OTB, chatting with friends about life, horse racing and what they fancy today. Some prefer trackside, some prefer the comfort of home.


You have to cater to all customers if you want to survive.


Can't believe they charge an entry fee into one of these places btw :eek:

[BombsAway Bob]

Once a month I visit Rockingham Park on a Tuesday afternoon, while Karen gets her hair done. Usually I don't even play any races, just walk around the place, maybe buy a Wednesday PM edition of DRF if it has Delta, & shoot the breeze with the few remaining employees. Last Tuesday, with Fair Grounds running a Fat Tuesday card, I did a head count. between clubhouse & sports bar, UNDER 60 patrons in the place! NO BAR OPEN, & the one food counter had 4 hot dogs rolling around, & no pizza in the pizza warmer. Tempting!
The track, from the 16th pole to the far turn, had a motorcycle/snowmobile course plowed in, & signs showed monthly races on Sat/Sun afternoooons. THAT must be great, trying to handicap simulcast races with 20 engines revving up outside!

[Robert Goren]

I maybe wrong, but I don't think anyone is going start the wagering career at an OTB. It is merely a convenience for already hooked players. JMO

[Horseplayersbet.com]

I maybe wrong, but I don't think anyone is going start the wagering career at an OTB. It is merely a convenience for already hooked players. JMO
Again, there is a psychology plus to racetracks and OTBs. When many players lose cash on hand it live, it has a better psychological affect on some as I mentioned before than it does to constantly put in money in an ADW (people tend not to withdraw cash from ADWs on a daily or weekly basis).

When a live bettor cashes, even less than than what they bet on the day, it isn't as bad for them as cashing less at an ADW where the actual balance stares you right in the face. When cashing at the track, one is more likely to think they are doing better (an illusion) than if betting online.

OTBs or tracks deposits for the most part don't show up on credit card statements either, so it is easier to fool oneself that you are doing better when you bet live (for those who don't keep complete records).

[Stillriledup]

First thing they need to do is have their simo centers open 7 days a week and import every single signal that's running with no exceptions.

This is 2010, not 1980.

[Deepsix]

Blackpool says in part "....I refuse to believe that we are dealing with a shrinking pie."

Huh??? Of course we (they) are dealing with a shrinking pie. Hey, I'm all for fresh blood in the mix, and possibly a new invigorated approach, BUT lets not go off the deep end from this one meeting/article. Time will tell and things always move slowly.

[Stillriledup]

Blackpool says in part "....I refuse to believe that we are dealing with a shrinking pie."

Huh??? Of course we (they) are dealing with a shrinking pie. Hey, I'm all for fresh blood in the mix, and possibly a new invigorated approach, BUT lets not go off the deep end from this one meeting/article. Time will tell and things always move slowly.


Exactly.

Its going to be hard to survive with the same group of 100 sixty year old men making 2 dollar show bets as your main base of customer.

[BlueShoe]

Here is a little more on this topic. While the idea of the mini satellite is certainly one to consider, with the state of the economy and racings problems, do not foresee a rush to start new facilities. The Commerce Club would seem to be a success, but would start ups in other locations be as fortunate?
www.calracing.com/drf_news.php?f=110972 (http://www.calracing.com/drf_news.php?f=110972)

[Stillriledup]

Here is a little more on this topic. While the idea of the mini satellite is certainly one to consider, with the state of the economy and racings problems, do not foresee a rush to start new facilities. The Commerce Club would seem to be a success, but would start ups in other locations be as fortunate?
www.calracing.com/drf_news.php?f=110972 (http://www.calracing.com/drf_news.php?f=110972)
funny how they never mention high takeout rate as a reason for declining handle.

[BlueShoe]

Just found out recently that an OTB site in California has bit the dust. The facility in Eureka, Redwood Acres, has shut its doors. Not sure when it closed, have been unable to find out yet. Humboldt County is a pretty depressed area economically, the leading industry is marijuana. Santa Barbara closed in Nov. of '09, and now Eureka. Can expect more underperforming sites to close. With Eureka gone, that leaves Anderson as the only site in the northern third of the state. On the other hand, the first mini satellite, the Commerce Club, is doing quite well, in fact, they plan to expand. The second mini in the state, a restaurant/bar in San Clemente, just opened a month ago. No reports yet as to how they are doing, plan on a visit soon to check the place out.

[andymays]

Yesterday I visited the new Mini Satellite in San Clemente at the OC Tavern Bar and Grill. It was a nice setup, the food was good and the service was good. The section taking wagers seemed like it was set up well.

[The_Knight_Sky]

funny how they never mention high takeout rate as a reason for declining handle.


We're talking 2005, riled.
Back then the problem was (and still is) field size.

At one point in the early 2000's they had 13-15 fair meets in the state of California alone. Too many fairs prevented continuity on both NorCal and SoCal circuits. They could have used these horses where it counts the most. A bit of creativity with the condition book and a drop to bottom of the barrel $5,000 claiming tag (like Kentucky) would have helped the race cards.

They've started to consolidate the fair circuit
but it looks to be too little too late.

___________________________

Israel said racing has developed the habit of catering to its own customer base and ignoring other sports fans that could develop an interest.

"We have an opportunity to branch out to new people," he said.

These new people do not stand a chance against the high takeout rates,
all the while learning a new game and trying to become proficient.

[elhelmete]

Been to the one in Ventura at the Fairgrounds. Very nice place, comfortable, etc. Gotta say that paying admission and parking was ridiculous, though.

[jimmy m]

When i was out in LA last week stopped by the new place at Fairplex i liked it free to get in and to park the place was crowded and that was a Thursday Night with just Harness Racing going. A new thing that i saw for the first time is where you get the forms and programs you buy them thru Vending Machines which i have never seen before.Hollywood Park i stopped by the Casino it was 10 Bucks 10 Bucks to sit in a little Bar area to watch and wager that is Terriable.If i lived in LA i would never go to the track i would just stay home and play on the Pc.

[BlueShoe]

Been to the one in Ventura at the Fairgrounds. Very nice place, comfortable, etc. Gotta say that paying admission and parking was ridiculous, though.
Paying to park at an OTB site is nonsense. While I concur that Ventura is a nice facility, except for SA and HOL they are the only site that charges for parking in SoCal that I can think of. If you have a club card sticker parking is free at Del Mar except during the live meet. Parking and admission is free at the Indian casinos that have OTB, as is the Commerce Club, and since moving into their new facility in '09, Fairplex. Fairplex is always busy, in fact on weekends, almost too busy, the place is packed. Ventura does take a little of the sting out, but only if you can attend on Wednesday or Thursday, when both parking and admission is free.

[toussaud]

what is the point of going to an OTB that doesn't carry all the signals when I can sign up with xpressbet and get every track / video feed in the country without leaving the comfort of my own home? It just doesn't make sense to me. Maybe i'm missing something.

[Stillriledup]

Paying to park at an OTB site is nonsense. While I concur that Ventura is a nice facility, except for SA and HOL they are the only site that charges for parking in SoCal that I can think of. If you have a club card sticker parking is free at Del Mar except during the live meet. Parking and admission is free at the Indian casinos that have OTB, as is the Commerce Club, and since moving into their new facility in '09, Fairplex. Fairplex is always busy, in fact on weekends, almost too busy, the place is packed. Ventura does take a little of the sting out, but only if you can attend on Wednesday or Thursday, when both parking and admission is free.

hey wait, Vegas charges you for parking and admission to get into the racebooks, why wouldnt calif charge parking and adm also?

Oh wait, nevermind.

[jagerfury]

Humboldt County is a pretty depressed area economically, the leading industry is marijuana.
So you can grow dope, and wager on horses? And the place is not viable economically? Paradise just a revitalized horse racing industry away!.

[Robert Goren]

They need sports betting on track and satellite only to bring people to these facilitiesThat is just like slots at a track. It gets people there, but they still won't bet on the horses the way things are being run now. Unless the takeout is somewhere close to what it is on the sports betting, nobody will bet the horses. Why should they? If you think casinos have cut into horse racing's customer base, wait tell you see legalized sports betting does. I think legalized Sports Betting would be the final nail in the coffin of horse racing.

[toussaud]

I think alot of people here have lost touch with reality. Everyone isn't like "us" lol.

The avg guy I know, goes to the casino rather it be Vegas, or the local track, and while they go for the slots, and for the poker or what not, most that I know will eventually dabble in the horses, simply becuase they are there and it's osmething to do and it's exciting. They know just as much about the horses, as they know about slots/casinos which is zulch usually and end up just playing around, few bets here and there, then go home happy/satisfied/however they go home.

At the end of the day, it is about entertainment. I'm not on that side of the fence, make no mistake but, I think sometimes we lose sight of the avg person and how they think. The avg person, that gambles on horses in vegas, probably doesn't know what takeout is, let alone the actual takeout amount. That is my father to a T... he dabbles in horses but he likes to gamble in general, wil ask me for a few picks, that he can dabble on while he's playing the slots etc.

[BlueShoe]

hey wait, Vegas charges you for parking and admission to get into the racebooks, why wouldnt calif charge parking and adm also?
You are just joking, right? :confused: If not, in half a century of patronizing racebooks all over the state of Nevada, have never ever paid to park or to gain admission to the racebook. Now, unless you know the ropes, you might have to pay for parking in DT Las Vegas. Have not been to Reno in several years, so not up to date on the parking situation DT. The LV Strip, Boulder Highway, and the locals casinos all have acres of free parking, as do the clubs at Laughlin, Lake Tahoe, and all of the other mid and lower level gambling centers in the state. They want to make it as easy as possible to get you inside so that they can pick your pocket. If you happen to be unable or too lazy to walk very far, there is always valet parking, for which you are expected to tip the attendant, so you might say that technically, that is a parking charge. But you already knew all this.

[Stillriledup]

You are just joking, right? :confused: If not, in half a century of patronizing racebooks all over the state of Nevada, have never ever paid to park or to gain admission to the racebook. Now, unless you know the ropes, you might have to pay for parking in DT Las Vegas. Have not been to Reno in several years, so not up to date on the parking situation DT. The LV Strip, Boulder Highway, and the locals casinos all have acres of free parking, as do the clubs at Laughlin, Lake Tahoe, and all of the other mid and lower level gambling centers in the state. They want to make it as easy as possible to get you inside so that they can pick your pocket. If you happen to be unable or too lazy to walk very far, there is always valet parking, for which you are expected to tip the attendant, so you might say that technically, that is a parking charge. But you already knew all this.

Yeah, i was joking, that's why i said, "wait, nevermind". Bad job by me right there, i should have used the 'im just joking' emoticon, i'll remember next time. :D

[thaskalos]

If you think casinos have cut into horse racing's customer base, wait tell you see legalized sports betting does. I think legalized Sports Betting would be the final nail in the coffin of horse racing.I couldn't agree more. :ThmbUp:

[Sunday Silence]

Paying to park at an OTB site is nonsense. While I concur that Ventura is a nice facility, except for SA and HOL they are the only site that charges for parking in SoCal that I can think of. If you have a club card sticker parking is free at Del Mar except during the live meet. Parking and admission is free at the Indian casinos that have OTB, as is the Commerce Club, and since moving into their new facility in '09, Fairplex. Fairplex is always busy, in fact on weekends, almost too busy, the place is packed. Ventura does take a little of the sting out, but only if you can attend on Wednesday or Thursday, when both parking and admission is free.

I'm a frequent visitor to the Ventura County Fairgrounds Derby Club. One of the nicer facilities around (maybe 2nd to Del Mar's OTB), especially the Surfside room. They've already closed down the other room upstairs because of costs. Almost all the tellers, including 20+ year long timers, are gone. Decent crowds on Saturdays, but not much else. I love going there on big days, like Derby Day and Breeder's Cup. But I have to admit, ADW is just so much more convenient. Just installed Verizon FIOS in my home yesterday and they have TVG and HRTV. I'll still go to OTB's once inawhile, but now it's only maybe 1 out of every 4-5 days I wager. Rest is all online. And that's with a great facility 18 minutes from my home.

Parking doesn't bother me. Charge $5, you get $3 back with your admission. They do it to keep beach parking away IMO.

[gm10]

If UK high street bookies charged like above, the shops would be empty .

No entry fee, form pinned on walls for free, plus a couple of Racing Posts about and free tea and coffee on request.

Do you often go in there? I find them very uninviting places. I'd rather pay £5 and be able to sit comfortably, have a drink or something to eat, than spend a free afternoon at the bookies.

Not my place to judge, but my impression is that the whole business model in America is flawed. Everything seems to stand or fall with the bettors. That isn't going to work if they have a 17% margin to overcome. Young people have a lot of cheaper alternatives if they want to speculate with their money.

Besides lowering take-out, you've got to bring the sport back to its original form. It's a sport, it's entertainment, it's not just a gambling medium. You've got to get more people to the track. They'll spend their money too, maybe not on betting, but on ice creams and cool Zenyatta hats for the kids.


I also think you need a central body of authority that can speak with one voice for the industry, one that makes the revenue streams get distributed to all parties in a sustainable way. The way it is now .... quagmire is an understatement.

[lamboguy]

here is the bottom line, current business model in racing does not work. slots or no slots.