Where is the $5 million triple crown bonus?

[Moyers Pond]

I find it hilarious that a guy can put up a $5 million purse for a race in April that will get 1/10th of the TV audience a Kentucky Derby or Belmont Stakes with a TC on the line will get, but the NTRA, Magna, Churchill Downs, and NYRA can't pool together enough money to put a $5 million bonus up for a horse/filly that has to actually WIN the Triple Crown.

Realistically, if you owned a horse that could win the TC, you could head to Belmont Park, earn NYRA an extra 100,000 paying customers, ABC or NBC millions of viewers, and horse racing millions and millions, and all you get is a $600,000 check for running your horse 3x in 5 weeks and having to run 1.5miles to do it.

People can say but there is money at stud, well not if a gelding does it, and not if a filly does it, or even a poorly bred horse does it.

Horse Racing might be the most poorly run sport in the world.

You get as big of a check for winning the Pennsylvania Derby as the check you receive for winning the Belmont.

I applaud Churchill Downs for putting up $2million for the Derby, but Magna and NYRA are disgraceful for putting up just $1million purses.

Get your act together horse racing, and put up a $10 million bonus for a TC winner, half goes to the owner, and half to a thoroughbred retirement charities.

[Tom]

Say NYRA ups the purse to 2 million.
What increase in revenue do you suppose that will generate?

Will more people show up on track?
Will people bet more?
Will more people people bet?

What financial reason is there to up the purse?

[Spalding No!]

Why is there always 5 or 6 new threads saying the same thing whenever Moyers Pond has a single thought?

[Moyers Pond]

Say NYRA ups the purse to 2 million.
What increase in revenue do you suppose that will generate?

Will more people show up on track?
Will people bet more?
Will more people people bet?

What financial reason is there to up the purse?

If a TC is on the line NYRA gets 100,000 extra fans, which translates into as much as an additional $10 million in ticket sales, parking, food, and cut of dollars gambled. They get it if a horse wins or not, as long as there is a TC on the line.

What exactly does the owner get if his horse/filly wins? $600,000. Take the $120K the trainer/jockeys get and they get $480,000. Take out taxes and insurance and the owner pockets $250K, but NYRA gets to make $10 million. Absolutely ridiculous.

As for Magna, they get tens of thousands of extra fans if the Derby winner goes to the Preakness, of just two weeks rest, and the owner of the horse gets no cut of it.

Let's face it, the guy at Oaklawn is doing it right, and these clowns at Magna and NYRA, who couldn't run a candy store correctly, can't do anything except take advantage of a situation that comes about because of some old tradition.

[the little guy]

If a TC is on the line NYRA gets 100,000 extra fans



Ah, Quiet Chris, the message boards change, but the hilarity always remains the same.

[johnhannibalsmith]

Now come on... aside from the case of a gelding, you don't really believe that the only financial gain to the owner of the winner is a quarter million from the purse account, do you?

"People can say but there is money at stud, well not if a gelding does it, and not if a filly does it, or even a poorly bred horse does it." -- Moyers Pond, Feb, 2010

If a gelding does it, he's probably made more money in that one race than the owner ever believed he'd make in a lifetime or he'd probably still have a colt. If a filly does it, her value is immense - why would you think otherwise? Attempt to purchase outright a "poorly bred" horse that wins the Triple Crown for the equivalent of the proposed bonus and let me know how you make out with that offer.

I won't argue that it would be nice to have meaningful incentives relating to the Triple Crown (which there were for years) - but there are (at least) two (super obvious) problems with the decisiveness of this point you are attempting. One, your supporting statements, such as the above, are based upon your own skewered perspective of the model. Second, the series doesn't need an incentive. Incentives are used to encourage a result that likely wouldn't occur without the incentive. Virtually everyone in North American racing is in the sport as an owner with one dominant goal - to win the Derby and the Triple Crown.

If you want to talk about the Jersey Derby and Spend A Buck, that's relevant - but in the absence of an incentive to NOT run in the Triple Crown, I fail to see how the absence of such an incentive in the Triple Crown is hurting the sport or reflecting poorly on MAGNA or NYRA - I think you are just on another rant about the two entities and dreaming up a silly excuse to do so.

[Robert Goren]

If a TC is on the line NYRA gets 100,000 extra fans, which translates into as much as an additional $10 million in ticket sales, parking, food, and cut of dollars gambled. They get it if a horse wins or not, as long as there is a TC on the line.

What exactly does the owner get if his horse/filly wins? $600,000. Take the $120K the trainer/jockeys get and they get $480,000. Take out taxes and insurance and the owner pockets $250K, but NYRA gets to make $10 million. Absolutely ridiculous.

As for Magna, they get tens of thousands of extra fans if the Derby winner goes to the Preakness, of just two weeks rest, and the owner of the horse gets no cut of it.

Let's face it, the guy at Oaklawn is doing it right, and these clowns at Magna and NYRA, who couldn't run a candy store correctly, can't do anything except take advantage of a situation that comes about because of some old tradition.There is a very good chance that the bankrupt Magna will not even own Pimlico on Preakness day.

[Greyfox]

The Triple Crown is the Jewel of North American Horse racing.

You don't need to add bonus money to inspire fan interest if a runner wins the first two legs. Fans don't come out because there is a huge bonus to be had.
They come out to witness history. It's just that easy.

[miesque]

I would argue in fact the opposite, that the one race or series that does need a bonus are the Triple Crown Races. The entire sport is skewed towards the pursuit of those races (I would argue to its detriment in many ways since there is a steep toll it takes on these young horses, but thats another debate and I know I am in the minority on that one). People go through enormous lengths and expense to get a potential Derby winner and hope above all hope they might be one of the elusive few that can get through those three races on top.

[Moyers Pond]

Ah, Quiet Chris, the message boards change, but the hilarity always remains the same.

I am not Quiet Chris on Derbytrail. But nice try.

[rastajenk]

They've tried bonuses before. If you have two different winners in the first two legs, you're stuck with either no payout, or a horse going in the Belmont 'cause he can pick up a million or so finishing third or fourth, hardly a case for celebrating the best of the best of the best. If one wins the first two legs, you really don't need a big bonus to gin up excitement for the third, as much recent history shows us.

[cj's dad]

They've tried bonuses before. If you have two different winners in the first two legs, you're stuck with either no payout, or a horse going in the Belmont 'cause he can pick up a million or so finishing third or fourth, hardly a case for celebrating the best of the best of the best. If one wins the first two legs, you really don't need a big bonus to gin up excitement for the third, as much recent history shows us.


Smarty Jones and his Philadelphia enterouge proved that point.

[Dahoss9698]

If a TC is on the line NYRA gets 100,000 extra fans

There's a lot wrong with the rest, but lets start at the top.

Belmont Stakes Attendance per year

2009-52,861 (non)
2008-94,476 (Big Brown TC bid))
2007- 46,870 (non)
2006- 61,168 (non)
2004- 120,139 (Smarty Jones TC bid, largest attendance ever)
2002- 103,222 (War Emblem TC bid)
1999- 85,818 (Charasmatic TC bid)
1998- 80,162 (Real Quiet TC bid)

So, obviously they get more fans there if there is a TC bid on the line, which makes sense. But it's a far cry for the figure presented, shockingly.

[andtheyreoff]

There's a lot wrong with the rest, but lets start at the top.

Belmont Stakes Attendance per year

2009-52,861 (non)
2008-94,476 (Big Brown TC bid))
2007- 46,870 (non)
2006- 61,168 (non)
2004- 120,139 (Smarty Jones TC bid, largest attendance ever)
2002- 103,222 (War Emblem TC bid)
1999- 85,818 (Charasmatic TC bid)
1998- 80,162 (Real Quiet TC bid)

So, obviously they get more fans there if there is a TC bid on the line, which makes sense. But it's a far cry for the figure presented, shockingly.


So, according to Moyer's logic, there would have been 3,200 fans without War Emblem in 2002.

And if we have the first two legs won, then we might see 150,000 fans at Belmont. Think about it. 150,000 people. I hope Belmont has enough room.

[Relwob Owner]

I find it hilarious that a guy can put up a $5 million purse for a race in April that will get 1/10th of the TV audience a Kentucky Derby or Belmont Stakes with a TC on the line will get, but the NTRA, Magna, Churchill Downs, and NYRA can't pool together enough money to put a $5 million bonus up for a horse/filly that has to actually WIN the Triple Crown.

Realistically, if you owned a horse that could win the TC, you could head to Belmont Park, earn NYRA an extra 100,000 paying customers, ABC or NBC millions of viewers, and horse racing millions and millions, and all you get is a $600,000 check for running your horse 3x in 5 weeks and having to run 1.5miles to do it.

People can say but there is money at stud, well not if a gelding does it, and not if a filly does it, or even a poorly bred horse does it.

Horse Racing might be the most poorly run sport in the world.

You get as big of a check for winning the Pennsylvania Derby as the check you receive for winning the Belmont.

I applaud Churchill Downs for putting up $2million for the Derby, but Magna and NYRA are disgraceful for putting up just $1million purses.

Get your act together horse racing, and put up a $10 million bonus for a TC winner, half goes to the owner, and half to a thoroughbred retirement charities.


Where do you propose Magna would get the money? I went to Laurel Thursday and they had about half of the normal concessions available and were half staffed.......a knowledgable friend of mine ran their numbers and they are apparently bleeding money.....

Also, you refer to Churchill putting up money-isnt it Yum Brands that puts it up? In the past, bonuses have been put up by sponsors(Visa) not tracks, I believe.


The Rachel/Zenyatta race is unique and your comparison to Triple Crown seems off base.....

[Relwob Owner]

If a TC is on the line NYRA gets 100,000 extra fans, which translates into as much as an additional $10 million in ticket sales, parking, food, and cut of dollars gambled. They get it if a horse wins or not, as long as there is a TC on the line.

What exactly does the owner get if his horse/filly wins? $600,000. Take the $120K the trainer/jockeys get and they get $480,000. Take out taxes and insurance and the owner pockets $250K, but NYRA gets to make $10 million. Absolutely ridiculous.

As for Magna, they get tens of thousands of extra fans if the Derby winner goes to the Preakness, of just two weeks rest, and the owner of the horse gets no cut of it.

Let's face it, the guy at Oaklawn is doing it right, and these clowns at Magna and NYRA, who couldn't run a candy store correctly, can't do anything except take advantage of a situation that comes about because of some old tradition.


The guy at Oaklawn may be doing it right from a sporting perspective, but from a business perspective, it is no slam dunk by any means.....

If you were NYRA, why would you put up money when you know that your numbers were going to be big anyways if there is a potential Triple Crown winner? If a horse wins the Triple Crown, I think the owners will be just fine with the amount of purse money their horse will have won.....

[Cubbymac26]

Say NYRA ups the purse to 2 million.
What increase in revenue do you suppose that will generate?

Will more people show up on track?
Will people bet more?
Will more people people bet?

What financial reason is there to up the purse?

tom..in my time on this forum and the poker forum 2+2(pace ad of poker)that post may be the one that makes the most sense out of the thousands ive read

[Java Gold@TFT]

Don't forget the 100,000 of us who showed up to see Funny Cide lose to Empire Maker. Of course he was a gelding so it doesn't matter that much.