Why do horses...

[only11]

Hang?
These horses always are overbet..every race.
Is it they just dont like passing horses?
Maybe they need a equipment change?
Can they inherit it from there sires?
Distance?

And do they ever get rid of the habit?Thoughts...

[sandpit]

Whatever they are on wears off...

[only11]

:lol: good one Whatever they are on wears off...

[Horseplayersbet.com]

Hang?
These horses always are overbet..every race.
Is it they just dont like passing horses?
Maybe they need a equipment change?
Can they inherit it from there sires?
Distance?

And do they ever get rid of the habit?Thoughts...
Horses are naturally herd horses. It is an evolutionary instinct, and I think this has a lot to do with why certain horses hang and why we call those who don't hang classy (class=herd leader in many cases).

[Overlay]

Quirin regarded "bid, but hung" as a potentially positive angle at the time that he wrote Winning at the Races, and used his concept of a "failure" -- as opposed to a garden-variety bad race -- to distinguish the horses for which this was a good sign. The details are given on page 269 of that book. (Sorry, the whole procedure is not too cumbersome to read, but is a bit lengthy to retype.)

[thespaah]

Hang?
These horses always are overbet..every race.
Is it they just dont like passing horses?
Maybe they need a equipment change?
Can they inherit it from there sires?
Distance?

And do they ever get rid of the habit?Thoughts...
Some horses just plain old lose interest.
Some horses will quit once they have passed all the other horses. Think Broad Brush.
Some horses will close in on a horse and then wait up for the one they just passed.

[depalma113]

Because the jockey sucks.

[Ejmenz]

Ever seen a horse too scared to not to run.

Ever watch Pincay ride before the mandate to shorten the whip.

It was a telephone pole, wielded by one intense individual.

[Hanover1]

Some horses will hang yet all are hung..........

[joanied]

It is the 'herd instinct'. One reason, IMO, it's very important when training young horses to be sure to 'teach' them it's OK to leave the herd...constantly galloping and/or breezing with company, is the worst thing you can do.

It can be more complicated than explained above, but that is the basics of it.

[Robert Goren]

Because the jockey sucks. I tend to agree with this. With a late closing horse, timing is eveything. The FG is a place where you will see this happening a lot.

[johnhannibalsmith]

It is the 'herd instinct'. One reason, IMO, it's very important when training young horses to be sure to 'teach' them it's OK to leave the herd...constantly galloping and/or breezing with company, is the worst thing you can do.

It can be more complicated than explained above, but that is the basics of it.

No kidding... Nothing is more irritating than seeing horses with raw talent wasted by repeatedly learning to wait for the horse next to them because of some belief that young horses must always go in sets.

[joanied]

No kidding... Nothing is more irritating than seeing horses with raw talent wasted by repeatedly learning to wait for the horse next to them because of some belief that young horses must always go in sets.

Indeed...it drives me nuts:faint:

[Hanover1]

Indeed...it drives me nuts:faint:
If the sets are properly organized, and situations change to suit particular colts, sets teach them alot. Braves some up, teaches others to go to the front and stay there, and can calm others. Gets them on/off the rail, teaches them to sit in a hole, ect......been using it for years......

[joanied]

If the sets are properly organized, and situations change to suit particular colts, sets teach them alot. Braves some up, teaches others to go to the front and stay there, and can calm others. Gets them on/off the rail, teaches them to sit in a hole, ect......been using it for years......

What I beleive we're talking about is sets where the youngsters never get out of being abreast of each other...and I have seen that done so many times it's incredible.

It's common sense that you need to change things for them all the time...and put them in different situations, such as they'll be in when they begin racing...on the rail, off the rail, in between, in front, come from behind, go around..yadda, yadda...
:) :) :)

[46zilzal]

FATIGUE

[joanied]

FATIGUE

:confused: HUH?

[Backstretch Pirate]

Because the jockey sucks.

Exactly. These bid and hang horses are choked all the way around the track.
When the brakes are released, they usually bid, but have no energy thanks to the hapless jock.

[46zilzal]

Every horse gets tired the further they go. SIMPLE physiologic fact

[Stillriledup]

Its a herd instinct. Some horses, for whatever reason, don't run as hard as they can.

[46zilzal]

Its a herd instinct. Some horses, for whatever reason, don't run as hard as they can.
This fantasy land idea again.

HERD behavior takes MULTIPLE and REPEATED daily interactions, in the wild, to demonstrate itself. There is \no time to evolve in the artificial environment of the race track.

You owe it to yourself to by an animal behavior textbook and actually read about studies of herd behavior rather than latching on to this ignorant idea that has been promoted without a shred of evidence.

http://www.equusite.com/articles/behavior/behaviorDrMcGreevy.shtml

Q: What are the methods of studying horse behaviour and why is it important to study?

A: The methods include looking at feral horse behaviour and comparing it to what we see in domesticated and stabled horses.

We can then use these comparisons to evaluate what may be abnormal behaviour.


Q: Is it important to differentiate between the behaviour one would expect in natural conditions and the behaviour under
unnatural conditions?

A: Yes, that’s right. Any departure from the home range grazing system, which is how feral horses exist, can have repercussions on behaviour and we need to understand the changes in order to manage our horses successfully

Q: Where does one study feral horse behaviour and how can we be sure that this is the norm?

A: It’s an interesting question because purists would argue that there is no such thing as a wild horse any longer
. The Przewalski horse has in a sense been domesticated since the 1950’s when the horses were retrieved from the wild
before extinction. So now our closest approximation to wild horse behaviour is seen in feral horses that are free ranging.
These types of herds include Brumbies, New Forest ponies, Mustangs and Assateague ponies.


Q: From what has been described, what are some of the key features of feral horse behaviour compared to horse behaviour under domesticated conditions?

A: There are two important factors that influence feral horse behaviour: Social organisation and the nature of the home range.

The home range is the area that the horse covers in its search for food and water. Distances covered each day depend on the location and the availability of these key resources. If we’re talking about a domestic situation, the horse is in a very intense environment, where water is close at hand and food is readily available in a concentrated form. This type of
environment is far removed from that of free ranging horses. A concentrated ration can be consumed in two or three hours whereas the horse has evolved to graze for 16 hours a day.

[xtb]

"SAMPLE ERROR keep looking for anyone to fill in your preconceptual point of view."

[joanied]

Every horse gets tired the further they go. SIMPLE physiologic fact

Zil..a tired horse is tired...different from the ones that hang...a horse that hangs isn't necessarily a tired horse...it's one that wants to wait on another horse...you know that:)

[joanied]

quote from ZilZal...
"This fantasy land idea again.

HERD behavior takes MULTIPLE and REPEATED daily interactions, in the wild, to demonstrate itself. There is \no time to evolve in the artificial environment of the race track."

Didn't want to use the entire quote from your post, Zilly...

first of all, this article is just one man's veiw/study...and I do agree that enviornment plays a big part in horse behavior...but if you really think about it, you realize that herding is a deeply imbedded natural instinct...and I beleive there is no way any enviornment a horse finds himself in can change or do away with a natural instinct that took 1,000's of years to aquire.
Regardless of being stalled, horses need to be together...and, IMO, even on the race track, they'd prefer to gallop with company...they are trained to do things solo, and they obey that training, but this doesn't mean that is how they want it...if given the choice, they will always choose being in company with at least one other horse.
:)

[JohnGalt1]

Hanger Horse has just run 2-3 lengths behind 1:10.1, 1:11.0 and 1:10.4.

Now HH is in a field of 1:12 plodders, he's clearly the fastest horse. Gets bet down to 3-5. And finishes 2 lengths behind the winner.

[Hanover1]

What I beleive we're talking about is sets where the youngsters never get out of being abreast of each other...and I have seen that done so many times it's incredible.

It's common sense that you need to change things for them all the time...and put them in different situations, such as they'll be in when they begin racing...on the rail, off the rail, in between, in front, come from behind, go around..yadda, yadda...
:) :) :)
The statement I commented on was clear..."Constantly training them in sets in insane"...................

[Hanover1]

What I beleive we're talking about is sets where the youngsters never get out of being abreast of each other...and I have seen that done so many times it's incredible.

It's common sense that you need to change things for them all the time...and put them in different situations, such as they'll be in when they begin racing...on the rail, off the rail, in between, in front, come from behind, go around..yadda, yadda...
:) :) :)
"Constantly golloping/breezing them in company is the worst thing you can do"..........Cannot read anything positive about that statement, however I understand you know the pluses.

[46zilzal]

Zil..a tired horse is tired...different from the ones that hang...a horse that hangs isn't necessarily a tired horse...it's one that wants to wait on another horse...you know that:)
Some keep going when they are tired and many do not akin to Ali in Manila

[johnhannibalsmith]

Some keep going when they are tired and many do not akin to Ali in Manila

Anthropomorphism is alive and well I see

Dance like a butterfly, sting like a steed.

[joanied]

"Constantly golloping/breezing them in company is the worst thing you can do"..........Cannot read anything positive about that statement, however I understand you know the pluses.

Hanover...I think you have gotten my posts wrong...or I am not understanding your posts using my quotes...

I am in total agreement that galloping the youngsters in sets all the time is all wrong...

are we on the same page or not:confused:

[joanied]

Some keep going when they are tired and many do not akin to Ali in Manila

Don't know what the 'Thrilla in Manila' has :) to do with it, Zilly...but may I repeat myself...a tired horse is not the same thing as a horse that hangs...yes, some horses that are truly tired will race on...the good ones will do that, you know....finding the extra gear, laying it on the track, giving that something extra...heart, courage, class....

a horse that hangs isn't necessarily a tired horse...he just wants company:)

[johnhannibalsmith]

Hanger Horse has just run 2-3 lengths behind 1:10.1, 1:11.0 and 1:10.4.

Now HH is in a field of 1:12 plodders, he's clearly the fastest horse. Gets bet down to 3-5. And finishes 2 lengths behind the winner.

I think this poster summed up the scenario about as succinctly as possible. HH doesn't suffer from excessive fatigue in slower races, he just don't like to get there.

[Backstretch Pirate]

Every horse gets tired the further they go. SIMPLE physiologic fact

Wow! A profound observation here. I think most know that horses are decelerating the further they run. However, all horses are not doing so at the same rate. Factors like jockey strangling and ground covered are huge factors.