LENTENOR WEDNESDAY @ GULFSTREAM!!!

[Bobby Seller]

RACE 8! , HORSE #7

9Furlong Turf Allowance race. Impressive win and on to Florida Derby.
:jump: :jump:

PPS: (SCROLL DOWN TO WED GULFSTREAM R8)
http://www.brisnet.com/cgi-bin/briswatch.cgi/public/ToddPletcher/PLETCHER+TODD+A/9999/summary.html

[Bobby Seller]

http://drf.com/news/article/110810.html
Lentenor out to show talent
"...Wednesday's $48,000 allowance feature at Gulfstream Park can be considered just that for at least one member of the field, Barbaro's little brother Lentenor, who could be headed for a major Derby prep with a victory in the 1 1/8-mile event..."

[joanied]

Pretty good field in there...I sure hope Lentenor kicks butt so he goes on to the FL Derby...not only would I love seeing him on the road to the Derby, as a legit contender...but it might peek some interst in the Derby...so far, we really have no stand out, none of these Derby hopefuls have taken racing by storm...

[jognlope]

8th at GP

[Moyers Pond]

This horse will be running in the big Colonial races. Doubt he ever makes it to the dirt.

[Rise Over Run]

I'll just ignore the entire Barbaro - Nicanor nonsense. That MSW he won got a relatively low rating and his speed figure is just average as well. Plus he's the morning line choice and he'll be overbet.

I'll look to take a shot with the other Matz horse, Stately Victor. Get's back to a surface he looked good winning on last September at the Spaaaa.

[castaway01]

Letenor winning would be a good story, but watch out for Maker's horse, Stately Victor. Maker's good 2nd off the layoff and 8-1 ML is a decent price. His best race can win it.

[Rise Over Run]

I'll just ignore the entire Barbaro - Nicanor nonsense. That MSW he won got a relatively low rating and his speed figure is just average as well. Plus he's the morning line choice and he'll be overbet.

I'll look to take a shot with the other Matz horse, Stately Victor. Get's back to a surface he looked good winning on last September at the Spaaaa.

Wow, not sure how I came to the conclusion it was a Matz trainee. It's Mike Maker's horse.

[only11]

I'll just ignore the entire Barbaro - Nicanor nonsense. That MSW he won got a relatively low rating and his speed figure is just average as well. Plus he's the morning line choice and he'll be overbet.

I'll look to take a shot with the other Matz horse, Stately Victor. Get's back to a surface he looked good winning on last September at the Spaaaa.
I bet SV in his last race..after the race i put in stable alert..noting his next race will be on the turf...BINGO..

[Hurricanefrank]

I'll just ignore the entire Barbaro - Nicanor nonsense. That MSW he won got a relatively low rating and his speed figure is just average as well. Plus he's the morning line choice and he'll be overbet.

From a value perspective I agree with this. However, I still think he's likeliest winner.

[Bobby Seller]

not only would I love seeing him on the road to the Derby, as a legit contender...but it might peek some interst in the Derby
sure would

[WinterTriangle]

Vamos a Ver always has trouble and I'm giving him a shot here.
7-1-4-8 box just to be contrary.
Also don't discount Trippo who has beat some of these and will come running at the end.

[andymays]

It's the DRF race of the day with free PP's.

http://www.drf.com/video/rod.html

I'll go with #3 Stately Victor.

[WinterTriangle]

Vamos a Ver always has trouble and I'm giving him a shot here.
7-1-4-8 box just to be contrary.
Also don't discount Trippo who has beat some of these and will come running at the end.

They scratched my longshot #4:( ---- and then I saw where the rail was.

I'll go 8,12 w/ 3-11-7-9
and reverse it
3,11,7 w/ 8,12,9

[letswastemoney]

Lentenor will always be overbet because of sentimentality.

[jognlope]

Just by a neck, 2nd. Maybe switch outside cost him a teeny bit, doubt it.

[rastajenk]

4-5 when the gate opened...finished second by a half-length or so. The winner (#1) was courageous finding a hole on the rail. Nice race, but its national significance is yet to be determined. ;)

[WinterTriangle]

7-1-4-8 box just to be contrary.


heh, shouldn't have changed my original thought for EX, but didn't play anyway and with the inquiry, and the way the race ran, who knows what significance it has?

Lentenor did okay, I'm not one to ditch non-winners off list for derby possibles.

[Watcher]

nMBFywa3qwE

[Dahoss9698]

I didn't play the race, because I thought Lentenor couldn't lose, and who wants to bet a underlaid favorite.

But, considering the way the race was run, how can anyone think Lentenor ran well today? He sat a perfect trip, chasing a slow pace and hung bad.

[Bobby Seller]

No shame in a game 2nd.

If he can run as well on the dirt at 9furlongs he could be tough.

[joanied]

Good race, but awful slow fractions...maybe the track is playing slow today?
At any rate...how'd that horse get up along the rail...shades of Borel:) ...

Lentenor ran very well, IMO...and, IMO, he'll keep improoving...wish they'd switch to dirt now and see how he likes it...could make him a little better horse.
Still, those fractions are a concern. I won't count him out yet.

[WinterTriangle]

I didn't play the race, because I thought Lentenor couldn't lose, and who wants to bet a underlaid favorite.

But, considering the way the race was run, how can anyone think Lentenor ran well today? He sat a perfect trip, chasing a slow pace and hung bad.

Think they'll send him to the FL Derby? Matz knows he's slow to mature. But who even knows if he will like dirt?

My derby dance card is getting full and I can't include him at this point.

Joanie, clear out your PM box. It is full.

[Dahoss9698]

A turf sprint two races before the Lentenor race had an opening 1/4 go in 21 and 1 and half in 43 and 2. The speed horses ran 1-2-3 around the track. The turf is not playing slow.

When you sit the trip Lentenor did, while crawling, you are supposed to draw off from inferior horses. He didn't.

[Dahoss9698]

Think they'll send him to the FL Derby? Matz knows he's slow to mature. But who even knows if he will like dirt?

My derby dance card is getting full and I can't include him at this point.

Joanie, clear out your PM box. It is full.

I doubt they send him to the Florida Derby. It's not really Matz's style and I don't think he showed enough to give Matz the confidence to try. That's just my opinion.

Granted, if he is better on dirt, it wouldn't take a whole lot to be competitive, considering the crop this year. But I would be surprised if they made that move.

[Hanover1]

I doubt they send him to the Florida Derby. It's not really Matz's style and I don't think he showed enough to give Matz the confidence to try. That's just my opinion.

Granted, if he is better on dirt, it wouldn't take a whole lot to be competitive, considering the crop this year. But I would be surprised if they made that move.
Not sure what you have to back up that statement......its very early yet.
I agree that if he was all that today, he draws off, but alas........check back with us in August.

[castaway01]

So much for my pick. Seriously though, if not for the "Barbaro's brother" thing, Lentenor is an allowance turf horse with a decent future if he develops, that's all. Sorry.

[WinterTriangle]

you are supposed to draw off from inferior horses.

Yeah, agree. I can't judge a horse off one race though, but he doesn't appear "ripe" yet. LOL And I think you're right about Matz.

BTW, I like horses who will thread the needle thru a rail spot, some horses are scared to do it. I give MTB and Double's Partner points on the guts scale. I looked at the race again, Doubles wasn't even getting whipped there at the end, Lentenor was though.

[Dahoss9698]

Not sure what you have to back up that statement......its very early yet.
I agree that if he was all that today, he draws off, but alas........check back with us in August.

Which statement are you referring to?

[the little guy]

No shame in a game 2nd.

If he can run as well on the dirt at 9furlongs he could be tough.


That was game?

[Bobby Seller]

http://drf.com/news/article/110861.html

"I thought he performed well," said Michael Matz who trains Lentenor, as he did Barbaro, for the Lael Stables. "The pace was a little slow and he wouldn't pass the other horse right away. John [Velazquez] said he did some green things on the first turn and that he was also a little immature and green down the stretch. He just needs experience."

Matz said he was unsure what would be next for Lentenor although he didn't rule out the Grade 1 Florida Derby on March 27 as a possible option.

"We'll see how he comes out of this one," said Matz. "All these other horses have more experience than he does. It's just hard to play catch up at this time of year." :jump:

[the little guy]

I pity the siblings of Barbaro. They all face a lifetime of disappointing many people through no fault of their own.

Lentenor has shown nothing if not that he is decidedly mediocre as a racehorse. The only horses out of today's race that have any possible futures are those that finished relatively far back in the pack. I particularly liked Joe Bravo's ride on Stately Victor.

[toussaud]

I pity the siblings of Barbaro. They all face a lifetime of disappointing many people through no fault of their own.

Lentenor has shown nothing if not that he is decidedly mediocre as a racehorse. The only horses out of today's race that have any possible futures are those that finished relatively far back in the pack. I particularly liked Joe Bravo's ride on Stately Victor.


while he's not his brother, there is nothing mediocre about a horse that lost a nose to a horse that is probably going to end up being a multiple graded stakes winner.

[westny]

while he's not his brother, there is nothing mediocre about a horse that lost a nose to a horse that is probably going to end up being a multiple graded stakes winner.

Lentenor and Barbaro are not brothers? Same dam and sire?

[Dahoss9698]

while he's not his brother, there is nothing mediocre about a horse that lost a nose to a horse that is probably going to end up being a multiple graded stakes winner.

Considering the trip and how he hung what word besides mediocre would describe his run today?

[the little guy]

while he's not his brother, there is nothing mediocre about a horse that lost a nose to a horse that is probably going to end up being a multiple graded stakes winner.


You got nothing right there.

Who's the idiot now?

[WinterTriangle]

Considering the trip and how he hung what word besides mediocre would describe his run today?

Very green.

Hey, turns out that's what jock and trainer say, too.

"We'll see how he comes out of this one," said Matz. "All these other horses have more experience than he does. It's just hard to play catch up at this time of year." :jump:

could not have said it better myself! Fact that matz said it makes it all more true.

Lentenor is a late bloomer, who is racing green, and bashing his entire future based on not drawing off, is shortsighted.


How TLG has now branded him a "mediocre race horse" is so hyperbolic I dunno what to say. Sounds like you have a thing against the barbaro lovers or something. I didn't think Lentenor would win this, but I'm not going to brand him as a mediocre horse on the basis of one race at Tampa.

[the little guy]

Now he was green?

Unless he's a leprechan I doubt it.

[Rise Over Run]

while he's not his brother, there is nothing mediocre about a horse that lost a nose to a horse that is probably going to end up being a multiple graded stakes winner.

Well the official chart lists it as a 1/2 length defeat.

And Doubles Partner is such a great horse that Winstar entered him for 80k on his third start, when they paid almost $500k for him? C'mon, let's be realistic here.

Lentenor is a decent horse. He isn't his brother, and he isn't on the Derby trail, whether that's the Kentucky or Virginia Derby.

[Rise Over Run]

it is very hip to bash the barbaro bros

Actually, it's more "hip" to fall in love with them. Why do you think he was 4/5?

[Rise Over Run]

[B]Lentenor and Barbaro are not brothers? Same dam and sire?

I think he means based on ability, not lineage. :bang:

[Dahoss9698]

Very green.

Hey, turns out that's what jock and trainer say, too.





What did you expect them to say? That they were disappointed with how he ran? They gave the typical trainer/jockey response. All fluff.

[Dahoss9698]

Lentenor is a late bloomer, who is racing green, and bashing his entire future based on not drawing off, is shortsighted.


How TLG has now branded him a "mediocre race horse" is so hyperbolic I dunno what to say. Sounds like you have a thing against the barbaro lovers or something. I didn't think Lentenor would win this, but I'm not going to brand him as a mediocre horse on the basis of one race at Tampa.

The race was at Gulfstream. And didn't you brand Tiz Chrome as all hype the other day based on one race? Why is this different?

[Hanover1]

Which statement are you referring to?
Alluding to a weak crop.

[FantasticDan]

What did you expect them to say? That they were disappointed with how he ran? They gave the typical trainer/jockey response. All fluff.

Matz did say he was disappointed with his finish:

"It’s disappointing," trainer Michael Matz said of Lentenor’s finish. "He broke well. He ran real well. (Jockey) John (Velazquez) said he was just doing some green things, and looking around. The pace was slow, and in hindsight he wishes he would have let him go a little earlier. At the three-eighths pole he would have gone past that other horse (Saint Eligius). He’s green still. He needs that experience."

The race's chart writer labeled Lentenor as game, but outfinished. And that's what I see in the replay too.

[Dahoss9698]

Alluding to a weak crop.

How would you describe the crop right now? Have you seen the prep races so far?

[Dahoss9698]

Matz did say he was disappointed with his finish:

"It’s disappointing," trainer Michael Matz said of Lentenor’s finish. "He broke well. He ran real well. (Jockey) John (Velazquez) said he was just doing some green things, and looking around. The pace was slow, and in hindsight he wishes he would have let him go a little earlier. At the three-eighths pole he would have gone past that other horse (Saint Eligius). He’s green still. He needs that experience."

The race's chart writer labeled Lentenor as game, but outfinished. And that's what I see in the replay too.

My bad. I didn't read the article and that was left out :rolleyes: of the quotes that were posted here.

I thought he hung, but that's why this game is so great. We all have an opinion.

[Spalding No!]

I'm anticipating a slew of record breaking this year courtesy of Matz-Lael Stable.

First, we have the Second Greatest Debate: Nicanor vs. Lentenor with a possible head-to-head match in a non-winners 2x over the Delaware Park turf course this summer.

Next, if Matz can get another well-bred colt into his barn (maybe a full brother to Showing Up?), he can surpass the formidable trio campaigned into mediocrity by John Ward a few years ago (Minister's Bid, Strong Contender, Dr. Pleasure).

Finally, if La Ville Rouge can spew out a couple of more of these guys, she'll have surpassed the great La Confidence, who after foaling Flawlessly in 1988, dropped not-so-great-but-overhyped-nonetheless (thank God there was no internet back then) dopplegangers named Pricelessly, Presently, Perfect, and Succeed.

[firstoffclaim]

I pity the siblings of Barbaro. They all face a lifetime of disappointing many people through no fault of their own.

Lentenor has shown nothing if not that he is decidedly mediocre as a racehorse. The only horses out of today's race that have any possible futures are those that finished relatively far back in the pack. I particularly liked Joe Bravo's ride on Stately Victor.

We've already figured out that your handicapping is "decidedly mediocre", Lentenor is just starting his career, he atleast has a shot to become more than that.

[the little guy]

We've already figured out that your handicapping is "decidedly mediocre", Lentenor is just starting his career, he atleast has a shot to become more than that.


http://www.paceadvantage.com/forum/showthread.php?p=838055#post838055



http://www.drf.com/drfPDFChartRacesIndexAction.do?TRK=AQU&CTY=USA&DATE=20100217&RN=3

[Charlie D]

TLG, you little devil :)

[firstoffclaim]

http://www.paceadvantage.com/forum/showthread.php?t=66652

[saratoga guy]

I pity the siblings of Barbaro. They all face a lifetime of disappointing many people through no fault of their own.

Lentenor has shown nothing if not that he is decidedly mediocre as a racehorse. The only horses out of today's race that have any possible futures are those that finished relatively far back in the pack. I particularly liked Joe Bravo's ride on Stately Victor.

I agree that being a full-bro to Barbaro puts far too many expectations on his back -- and the history of full-sibs to accomplished stakes performers is not encouraging.

But I thought that field today was a pretty good bunch -- and the 1-3 finishers were both coming out of maiden-breakers in their first turf starts, so they both might be talented grass runners.

Plus, I think Lentenor had St Eligius measured -- but never saw the eventual winner coming up on the inside.

The question mark, of course, will be how Lentenor handles dirt.

But again, yes, without the breeding and the prominent sibling -- we wouldn't be focused on this horse at this stage.

[Charlie D]

A nice return from firstofclaim :)

[098poi]

I must admit I was rooting for Lentenor and although he did not fold the performance was not very impressive. In a turf race I want to see some closing kick from the mid to rear group or a sustained bit of energy from the front runner that says I'm in front and I'm going to stay in front.

Having said that if Lentenor were to make it to the Derby (Kentucky) and be a credible contender it would be something that would capture the public that would tower over the Rachael-Zen race(s). The latter is no doubt big news and generates much excitement for race fans and some outside of racing but if Barbaro's full brother was in the derby Barbaro fans from around the world would tune in with great anticipation. Whether justified or not the Barbaro phenomenon was huge second only to the death of Princess Di as far as catching fire with the hearts of the public. I don't see this happening but who knows?

[FantasticDan]

I must admit I was rooting for Lentenor and although he did not fold the performance was not very impressive. In a turf race I want to see some closing kick from the mid to rear group or a sustained bit of energy from the front runner that says I'm in front and I'm going to stay in front.
Didn't we see the latter? Saint Eligius set the pace with Lentenor stalking close-up. In the stretch those two gamely dueled for the lead while the horse that had been tracking along in third got up on the rail. The rest of the field was never involved.

[098poi]

I'm just saying if L had not only won but won by a length or more that would be impressive. I'm still a fan.

[Charlie D]

Watched replay and can't say it impressed. Maybe next time will give a different impression.

[toussaud]

You got nothing right there.

Who's the idiot now?
someone is fiesty today. I never called you an idiot.

[the little guy]

someone is fiesty today. I never called you an idiot.



http://www.paceadvantage.com/forum/showthread.php?t=57836&highlight=sterling

[WinterTriangle]

The race was at Gulfstream. And didn't you brand Tiz Chrome as all hype the other day based on one race? Why is this different?

Because I didn't think either would win their races.
Also, the difference is I didn't say they were *mediocre horses*. Just not DERBY HORSES for ME.

Which I still believe about both. :)

[Dahoss9698]

Because I didn't think either would win their races.
Also, the difference is I didn't say they were *mediocre horses*. Just not DERBY HORSES for ME.

Which I still believe about both. :)

Here's a question, not only for you, but anyone else who is forgiving about the effort today. If this horse was not related to Barbaro, would your thoughts about him be the same?

I realize the fact he is related to Barbaro is what makes him a topic for discussion. But he's probably the most famous horse around with nothing more than a maiden win and two awful hang jobs to his credit. I say this as someone who figured he would win today and win impressively. Boy was I wrong.

[FantasticDan]

The only people that know Nicanor and Lentenor exist are horse racing fans. Horse racing fans want both to do well (assuming they feel a sentimental connection to Barbaro), but also realize that lightning very rarely strikes twice, even for full siblings of greatness. I think their desire to see both do well supercedes their "disappointment" that neither can reach the bar their older brother set.

Still, both Lentenor and Nicanor are talented horses whose best is likely still ahead of them. Are both world-beaters? No. Are both capable of winning competive races against quality opponents? Yes.

What else need be said?

[WinterTriangle]

I realize the fact he is related to Barbaro is what makes him a topic for discussion. But he's probably the most famous horse around with nothing more than a maiden win and two awful hang jobs to his credit. I say this as someone who figured he would win today and win impressively. Boy was I wrong.

Well, I think like you, I like Matz.

I believe he is patient, and knows how to bring a late-maturing horse like this along. And not prone to 'derby fever' and push the young horse along faster than he should.

That's why I still believe Lentenor will turn out to be a good little racehorse. I can't tell yet for sure, would have to see more, but he's still green....then there's always the possibility that he doesn't want to pass other horses to win. Right now I'm assuming he just doesn't get that part yet?

[Dahoss9698]

The only people that know Nicanor and Lentenor exist are horse racing fans. Horse racing fans want both to do well (assuming they feel a sentimental connection to Barbaro), but also realize that lightning very rarely strikes twice, even for full siblings of greatness. I think their desire to see both do well supercedes their "disappointment" that neither can reach the bar their older brother set.

Still, both Lentenor and Nicanor are talented horses whose best is likely still ahead of them. Are both world-beaters? No. Are both capable of winning competive races against quality opponents? Yes.

What else need be said?

The only people that know 99% of the horses racing nowadays are horse racing fans. I don't see what you are saying in regards to these siblings though. I don't see realistic discussions about them or what they have accomplished.

You might be realistic about what they have done. But a quick glance at this thread shows many don't share your thoughts. Was Lentenor's performance awful? Not at all. But by no means was it impressive and when you have a well bred, highly touted horse, who sits a perfect trip and hangs like he did, I think mediocre is a good description at this point.

Truthfully, I wish the horse well. I do like Matz and think he's a good trainer. But he's really in a no win situation because these horses are never going to be able to live up to the hype.

[GARY Z]

slow early fraction, on the turf , facing several horses who ran
(poorly) in graded races anfd losing to an 80k md claimer
trained by Pletcher doesn't exactly bode well for this
guy.

That said, while Preado is in a slump, Lael utilized three different jocks
which to me smacks of the treatment Tim Ice recently experienced.

At the very least Edgar would have undoubtedly ended up the same way,
but at the I feel terrible about the lack of respect and support of
Lael/Jacksons to Edgar.

[rastajenk]

Man, :D :D ...little guy, long memory.

[Cholly]

Still, both Lentenor and Nicanor are talented horses whose best is likely still ahead of them. Are both world-beaters? No. Are both capable of winning competive races against quality opponents? Yes.

What else need be said?[/QUOTE]

Only that this steed reinforces the axiom: "Breed the best to the best, then hope for the best."

[toussaud]

he has a right to be mad. I was out of line that day.

[castaway01]

Didn't we see the latter? Saint Eligius set the pace with Lentenor stalking close-up. In the stretch those two gamely dueled for the lead while the horse that had been tracking along in third got up on the rail. The rest of the field was never involved.

Game? In a race with a pace so slow the closers never got involved, a 4-5 shot still couldn't put away his opponents. How was it "game" when Lentenor was the heavy favorite, got a crawling pace, and STILL lost? At least it looks like he'll be heavily bet as he struggles through his turf allowance conditions, so he might be useful to make some money betting against.

[Spalding No!]

Still, both Lentenor and Nicanor are talented horses whose best is likely still ahead of them. Are both world-beaters? No. Are both capable of winning competive races against quality opponents? Yes.

What else need be said?

What is the evidence for this statement?

At this point, they seemed destined to be stuck at nw2x allowance level.

[Moyers Pond]

Well, they still have to try him on the dirt, but right now he looks like a nice grade 3 caliber turf horse.

[the little guy]

he has a right to be mad. I was out of line that day.


I appreciate that, but I'm not mad, I'm just having some fun.

[the little guy]

Well, they still have to try him on the dirt, but right now he looks like a nice grade 3 caliber turf horse.


Considering the overall quality of the graded turf horses in this country in recent years he may well be a fringe player in those races, but that hardly makes him " nice " in any historical perspective. That doesn't make him anything close to a bad horse either. However, he is yet another example of an overhyped horse developing a false reputation for no good reason considering his performance on the racetrack.

Barbaro was a very terrific racehorse, even remarkable considering his unfortunately limited career, but that doesn't elevate his siblings. Sadly, and if anything, it may always put them under a microscope that pretty much always makes them disappointing. None of them can possibly be expected to finish the career that many wish, and fairly believe, Barbaro would have had.

[jognlope]

The only thing I can't think about with Barbaro is when I saw on TV him "when he was just a kid" with Peter on him, dancing and prancing and bucking, so eager to got on the track, his coat shining. Just a youngster then. And then he grew up so fast and then the rest...people couldn't help it they just loved him beyond what they could express in words.

[PaceAdvantage]

To be fair to toussaud, he actually called TLG an idiiot, not an idiot....

[castaway01]

The only thing I can't think about with Barbaro is when I saw on TV him "when he was just a kid" with Peter on him, dancing and prancing and bucking, so eager to got on the track, his coat shining. Just a youngster then. And then he grew up so fast and then the rest...people couldn't help it they just loved him beyond what they could express in words.

My posts are nothing against Barbaro or his memory. Look at it this way---there have been a lot of great running backs in NFL history. How many of their brothers also led the league in rushing? Not many...genes help but the final product tends to vary a bit.

[FantasticDan]

Steve Haskin's take on Lentenor's latest, taken from this article:

http://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-racing/articles/55463/kentucky-derby-trail-the-future-is-now

Don’t give up on Lent

There were a lot of Lentenor fans who were disappointed that Barbaro’s full brother was beaten in a grass allowance race Feb. 17 at Gulfstream Park, but he ran a good race considering he’s still a bit green and fought hard all the way to the wire, and never saw the winner. Don’t let Lentenor’s defeat take away from the victory by Double’s Partner, yet another good 3-year-old trained by Todd Pletcher and owned by WinStar Farm. The son of Rock Hard Ten at first seemed reluctant to go through a wide opening along the rail. When he attempted to get through, pace-setting Elgius, who had drifted off the fence, came back in and soundly bumped Double’s Partner, who was now in very tight quarters. That seemed to get his blood up and he pretty much shoved Elgius out of his way, muscling his way through, and just got up in the final strides to beat Lentenor by a half-length in as game an effort as you’ll see from a young horse.

[the little guy]

No disrespect to my friend Steve Haskin, but he's not really a bettor, and bettors need to be more discerning.....or they get buried.

[eastie]

for a horse who just came home in 11 and 2, and also ran every quarter as fast or faster than his previous quarter, you guys act as if he ran up the track. It wouldn't surprise me one bit if he went on with it from here. If he saw that guy on the rail sooner he might have beaten him too. This will be a key race for sure. watch the race again...they aren't hanging, they're running and running gamely.

[Dahoss9698]

for a horse who just came home in 11 and 2, and also ran every quarter as fast or faster than his previous quarter, you guys act as if he ran up the track. It wouldn't surprise me one bit if he went on with it from here. If he saw that guy on the rail sooner he might have beaten him too. This will be a key race for sure. watch the race again...they aren't hanging, they're running and running gamely.

When you go as slow as they went early (on a fast turf), wouldn't it make sense they came home fast?

[eastie]

yes. it's when they don't then you knock them....is 11 and 2 walking home ? I think not

[Dahoss9698]

yes. it's when they don't then you knock them....is 11 and 2 walking home ? I think not

It would have been nearly impossible for them to not come home fast. That turf is fast right now. They went slow early. Take a look at some of the other times from this week and how fast horses have been coming home.

[WinterTriangle]

At this point,

Yes. At this point.

Lentenor is a classic case of late bloomer.
Thank goodness his trainer knows this, and works him patiently.
Hate to think of what would happen if he was with somebody not like Matz.

[eastie]

It would have been nearly impossible for them to not come home fast. That turf is fast right now. They went slow early. Take a look at some of the other times from this week and how fast horses have been coming home.


the 5 furlong race the same day last eighth was 12 and 1..

[the little guy]

Of course they came home fast....they crawled early. And now you're PREDICTING a key race? Perhaps a bunch of horses will run well out of this race.....the ones that were badly compromised by the SLOW pace of course rate to run better the next time. However, common sense dictates that in a fairly run race one would want to avoid the first three finishers. Right?

So, let me get this straight, Lentenor was game, he was green, and he didn't see the horse on the inside. I can only imagine that next there was a blimp flying overhead that distracted him.

[Dahoss9698]

the 5 furlong race the same day last eighth was 12 and 1..

Didn't they go pretty fast early in that sprint? These aren't new concepts here. In the sprint, the 3 horses on or near the lead went 1,2,3 around the track. They went fast early and came home not as fast.

In Lentenor's race, the horses on or near the lead went slow early and came home fast.

What is so confusing about this?

[eastie]

Of course they came home fast....they crawled early. And now you're PREDICTING a key race? Perhaps a bunch of horses will run well out of this race.....the ones that were badly compromised by the SLOW pace of course rate to run better the next time. However, common sense dictates that in a fairly run race one would want to avoid the first three finishers. Right?

So, let me get this straight, Lentenor was game, he was green, and he didn't see the horse on the inside. I can only imagine that next there was a blimp flying overhead that distracted him.

Partially right. The hoss that ran 3rd will be odds on, so he will be a go against.
The winner will win right back at short odds, unless in a stake, then he might be worth a play at a price
Lentenor only saw the horse he was battling, and he beat him. One can only hope they go to the dirt for a score in the Fla Derby. I think his brother ran pretty well on the dirt his first time. If garcia doesn't let him through, he wins, even though he didn't really switch his leads and lugged in a touch.
That blimp must have been the one on your arm :D

[the little guy]

Lentenor isn't finishing Barbaro's career. It's not his fault.

He didn't see the winner! You're cracking me up.

[eastie]

what does he have ? xray vision ? if he was in between, instead of outside both of them, he would have beaten them both. All 3 ran gamely, but that's the last time either of them will be near Lentenor.

Less than 50 days till Zenyatta spanks Rachel !!

[Spalding No!]

Yes. At this point.

Lentenor is a classic case of late bloomer.
Thank goodness his trainer knows this, and works him patiently.
Hate to think of what would happen if he was with somebody not like Matz.

Huh?

How is he a classic late bloomer with only 4 starts under his belt?

By the way, the key ingredient of a late bloomer is the blooming part.

[Spalding No!]

what does he have ? xray vision ? if he was in between, instead of outside both of them, he would have beaten them both. All 3 ran gamely, but that's the last time either of them will be near Lentenor.

Less than 50 days till Zenyatta spanks Rachel !!

I guess one can stomach the "he didn't even see him coming" excuse when a horse finishes with a fury to snatch victory at the wire.

But didn't Doubles Partner engage the other two early in the stretch?

[eastie]

I'm sure none of you have ever had a hoss get beat cuz he didn't see someone coming till it was too late ?

[Spalding No!]

I'm sure none of you have ever had a hoss get beat cuz he didn't see someone coming till it was too late ?

Again, Doubles Partner joined the fray with more than a furlong to go.

Was Lentenor the only horse obligated to pass the eventual 3rd place finisher? Maybe he just needs to learn to multi-task.

[Rise Over Run]

Anyone basing opinions on a horses prior races and/or ability on the swiftness (or lack thereof) of the fractions on the Gulfstream Turf Course(s) needs their head examined.