John Pricci: As Dirt Track Looms, Santa Anita Synthetics Issue Rages On!

[andymays]

http://www.horseraceinsider.com/blog.php/John-Pricci/comments/02132010-as-dirt-track-looms-santa-anita-synthetics-issue-rages-on/

Excerpt:

From backstretch to betting window, you could wager that racetrackers are awaiting the end of the Pro Ride era in Arcadia--the end of synthetic-track sport at the Great Race Place which was foisted upon all California tracks under the guise of safety.

As all know, the jury remains out on the safety issue, although there’s been some empirical evidence to show that it slows the rate of traditional problems, but also has created different physical issues with which horsemen must deal.

Eventually, the Pro Ride surface will be replaced by God’s dirt--hopefully with a few technological enhancements in the interests of equine safety, but obviously a dirt track not as hard as the old Santa Anita dirt surface that often was speed biased as well.

And you can write it down; the new surface at Santa Anita WILL by a dirt track.

Part of the selling of synthetics, wittingly or not, was done by Dr. Rick Arthur, a proponent who wields much influence as Equine Medical Director for the California Horse Racing Board. Arthur conducted studies he says indicates that all-weather surfaces are safer.

http://www.horseraceinsider.com/blog.php/John-Pricci/comments/02132010-as-dirt-track-looms-santa-anita-synthetics-issue-rages-on/

[FenceBored]

I just wonder why we've never heard from this Andy Asaro guy here on Pace Advantage. ;)

[FenceBored]

http://www.horseraceinsider.com/blog.php/John-Pricci/comments/02132010-as-dirt-track-looms-santa-anita-synthetics-issue-rages-on/

Excerpt:

From backstretch to betting window, you could wager that racetrackers are awaiting the end of the Pro Ride era in Arcadia--the end of synthetic-track sport at the Great Race Place which was foisted upon all California tracks under the guise of safety.

As all know, the jury remains out on the safety issue, although there’s been some empirical evidence to show that it slows the rate of traditional problems, but also has created different physical issues with which horsemen must deal.

Eventually, the Pro Ride surface will be replaced by God’s dirt--hopefully with a few technological enhancements in the interests of equine safety, but obviously a dirt track not as hard as the old Santa Anita dirt surface that often was speed biased as well.

And you can write it down; the new surface at Santa Anita WILL by a dirt track.

Part of the selling of synthetics, wittingly or not, was done by Dr. Rick Arthur, a proponent who wields much influence as Equine Medical Director for the California Horse Racing Board. Arthur conducted studies he says indicates that all-weather surfaces are safer.

http://www.horseraceinsider.com/blog.php/John-Pricci/comments/02132010-as-dirt-track-looms-santa-anita-synthetics-issue-rages-on/

Is that the same Rick Arthur who's a VP of the Oak Tree Association, who was quoted in the Bill Christine article on DRF?

[andymays]

Is that the same Rick Arthur who's a VP of the Oak Tree Association, who was quoted in the Bill Christine article on DRF?


Yes. He didn't say much in that article did he? I guess the propaganda machine was told to stop. ;)

[andymays]

I just wonder why we've never heard from this Andy Asaro guy here on Pace Advantage. ;)

And then some more..................................

There is no question that problems prior to Synthetic surfaces in southern California were real but they were primarily the result of decades old bases. For the synthetic advocates like Dr. Rick Arthur to compare the worst years of dirt surfaces with decades old bases to the first three years of synthetic with new material and new bases is reckless and misleading. And by the way the “synthetic geeks” have no problem doing comparisons from track to track when it fits their argument. They chose the tone of the debate long ago and it is unfortunate for them that the infomercial selling synthetic surfaces was dead wrong. In fact the claims were fraudulent at best.

I will never forget an article in 2007 where the author asserted that if you weren’t for synthetic surfaces then you hated horses and didn’t care about them. It also asserted that you didn’t care about little kids who came to the track and saw horses euthanized on the track after a breakdown, and that it was my fault that they were traumatized for the rest of their lives. That is the kind of stuff Steve Crist referred to in a recent article http://www.drf.com/news/article/110308.html
That is the type of argument that sets people like me off. Crist is right on the money when he said “Framing the synthetic debate, as some of the surfaces’ proponents do, as a choice between white-knight safety advocates and selfish, disgruntled horseplayers is an offensive ploy that obscures the facts”.

The decision to mandate and then install these corrupt surfaces in Southern California was misguided at best. Many of the so called intelligent people of high social standing were dead wrong as usual when they try to tell us “what’s best for us”. These may be well educated people but they are not smart. In fact most people would say they were pretty stupid to lead us to this place. How about installing a synthetic surface at one track and then waiting a few years to see how it played out? How about Santa Anita putting the synthetic surface on the training track instead of the main track before the rush to judgment?

Synthetic surface racing is minor league racing and in Europe the horses with the least class and ability raced on it. Why we would embrace a minor league racing surface and install it at one of our most beloved tracks (Santa Anita) is beyond me. In my opinion the last suckers in the world with deep pockets were in Dubai and they were taken for a ride. Now they are having financial trouble and we shall see what happens with the surface. If it works out in five years then so be it. As far as I’m concerned they can have it.

Bottom line is that Horse Racing is as much about the Horseplayers as anything else and most Horseplayers don’t like it. In a poll at Pace Advantage nearly 3 out of 4 Horseplayers want it removed immediately in areas with good weather like Southern California. If people like myself don’t fight back with the same fervor that the synthetic geeks do then the war will be lost. I don’t apologize for anything I have said or done in furthering the cause of Horseplayers who are for a traditional racing surface. In fact if the work I have done over the last couple of years has had anything at all to do with a return to dirt then I am quite proud my effort.

[rwwupl]

Thanks Andy,

From John Pricci article,comment #8

8.rwwupl says:
13 Feb 2010 at 12:22 pm | #
Thanks to Andy for a tremendous job in investigation and getting the information out to the right people. I know the time and effort that Andy put in to this project was done for principle over any reward. I know him.

I think there are still facts to be learned,about this issue and others that we all feel strongly about in horse racing that our leaders just do not seem to grasp.Some issues are just too important to wait for the racing managers to become informed.

Thank goodness there are people who are willing to stand up against the strong wind of the establishment and bring about needed change.

Hats off to Andy and John Pricci for shining more light for all horse players everywhere.

Yes, we do have hope the future of racing as long as there are people willing to give of themselves for what they believe in.

rwwupl

[andymays]

Marsha Naify on Roger Stein talking about the meeting today which includes synthetic surfaces.

Archived show up at 10:00 am pst.

http://www.rogerstein.com/radio/archive2.asp

Also discussed takeout with her and signal stuff.

[CincyHorseplayer]

Andy,you're a trooper on this.

For whatever left field reason when I read this,it made me think about Europe.They are actually lucky.They deal with a single surface all year long.The synthetic racing is minor leagues and usually irrelevant over there.They can handicap unfettered,noting only the nuances of certain courses,but all are grass.

After hearing some of the reactions on here from players across the pond,I just wonder how they would feel if Ascot,Longchamp,and Epsom were mandated to be dirt tracks in the name of internationalization?

And here we are,dealing with two surfaces that we love despite the complications,and they wonder why were upset when they introduce a 3rd surface under false pretenses.Go figure.

Anyway,left field perspective over here.The imagination is a wonderful thing!

[Charlie D]

After hearing some of the reactions on here from players across the pond,I just wonder how they would feel if Ascot,Longchamp,and Epsom were mandated to be dirt tracks in the name of internationalization?



Can i have Fractions and Beaten length info too.


By the way cappers deal with surfaces described as Firm, Good to Firm, Good, Good to soft, Yielding, Soft, Very Soft and Heavy in Euroland.


None of this OFF TURF carp you have over there you know :)

[CincyHorseplayer]

Can i have Fractions and Beaten length info too.


By the way cappers deal with surfaces described as Firm, Good to Firm, Good, Good to soft, Yielding, Soft, Very Soft and Heavy in Euroland.


None of this OFF TURF carp you have over there you know :)


Hey I've made some good money realizing that some turf courses favor speed when anything but firm,Tampa is a good example!!

Charlie you don't have to tell me about conditions.How about about fast,frozen,thawing,good,heavy,muddy,sloppy,wet frozen,drying out,fast-heavy.I've seen it happen in a 4 day period at Beulah in 07!!!

[Bobzilla]

Andy, Cincy is right, you've been stalwart in your efforts to illuminate some of the truth behind the California mandate.

Personally, I don't mind some tracks such as Turfway or Woodbine being synthetic. I don't even mind playing them from time to time when I find myself in the mood for variety. But the mandate out west never sat well with me. Crist referred to the decision as "wildly premature" in a DRF column back in the spring of 2006 and I thought then that in time he may be proven right.

It was only three months ago, on the heels of a synthetic BC, when the Blood-Horse foreign correspondent Mark Popham was calling on Bel and CD to do the "right thing" and convert immediately. And now with the strong possibility that SA might start this revolution heading in the other direction I have to wonder what Mr. Popham must be thinking now.

[Charlie D]

The different conditions certainly make it interesting.



I enjoyed seeing Euro's take on Dirt horses on Pro-ride in Breeders Cup races last two years, but if it's not worked out as hoped then go back to a Traditional Dirt Surface and ensure there's plenty of cushion and no connections running horses that maybe should not be running.

It's then up to Euro's to send right horses for KD, Classic etc.

[InsideThePylons-MW]

Next problem......

They are going to single out Andy and blame him after they put dirt back in and SA continues to drop handle and horses continue to leave.

[andymays]

Next problem......

They are going to single out Andy and blame him after they put dirt back in and SA continues to drop handle and horses continue to leave.


Absolutely they are going to blame me. I aint got no stop sign on my chest in person or in my opinion.

Bring everything you got "synthetic geeks". :D

[andymays]

Andy, Cincy is right, you've been stalwart in your efforts to illuminate some of the truth behind the California mandate.

Personally, I don't mind some tracks such as Turfway or Woodbine being synthetic. I don't even mind playing them from time to time when I find myself in the mood for variety. But the mandate out west never sat well with me. Crist referred to the decision as "wildly premature" in a DRF column back in the spring of 2006 and I thought then that in time he may be proven right.

It was only three months ago, on the heels of a synthetic BC, when the Blood-Horse foreign correspondent Mark Popham was calling on Bel and CD to do the "right thing" and convert immediately. And now with the strong possibility that SA might start this revolution heading in the other direction I have to wonder what Mr. Popham must be thinking now.

He's thinking he should have never opened his big mouth. Now he had Bobzilla, andymays, Fenceboard, rwwwupl, Igeteven, Cincyhorseplayer, CJ, and all the other "Old School" Horseplayers up in arms. :ThmbUp:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e322vTpTyOE

Don't take no for an answer! :cool: :p :D ;)

And an Amen Bruddah for everyone I forgot! :ThmbUp:

[andymays]

Sent to Craig Fravel:

How in the hell do you still have a job Mr. Fravel? You are one of the most clueless people to ever get involved in Horse Racing. It was easy when the economy was good wasn’t it? Step up your game Pal and quit whining.
Your time is up. Quit embarrassing yourself!

Your Pal,

Andy


http://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-racing/articles/55369/race-surfaces-dominate-california-summit-talk
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Excerpt:

“Why do handicappers hate us?” Fravel asked. “We’ve had closer races. If the races are going to be that much tighter, they are going to be harder to handicap. It makes it harder to eliminate horses.”

You want to know what's wrong with Horse Racing? Start with Craig Fravel of Del Mar. :lol: :eek: :rolleyes: :liar: :sleeping: :mad:

[andymays]

http://www.drf.com/news/article/110786.html

Excerpt:

During Fravel's slide-show presentation, he displayed and read several proverbs and notable quotes, including what he cited as an old Polish proverb, "The man who can't dance thinks the band is no good."

That upset trainer John Shirreffs, who followed Fravel's presentation. Shirreffs, despite training Zenyatta, is not a supporter of synthetic tracks.

"I know how to dance and that all bands are not equal, so I take a little offense to that," Shirreffs began. "The fact that we're having this meeting indicates we have a big problem."

Shirreffs said he has found that horses had to adjust their stride on synthetics, and that as horses get fitter "something undermines their well being."

"I call it a hidden-fatigue factor," he said. "As they get fitter, they're losing strength."

Shirreffs said the problem is especially acute with younger horses. ]And he said the synthetic surfaces have led to more issues with feet.[/B]

"It's so illogical," Shirreffs said. "They're supposed to be softer and kinder surfaces, but you have foot problems."

John Sadler, another trainer on the panel and the recently elected president of the California Thoroughbred Trainers Association, said that while fractures were down with synthetics, other injuries had replaced them.

"We have as many injuries," he said, citing "high suspensories, tibias, hind cannon bones, and pelvises."

"There are injuries we just didn't used to see," Sadler said.
Sadler said that in a recent poll of CTT membership, "70 percent of the trainers wanted Santa Anita to take out the track and put in a new and improved dirt track."

Jerry Moss, the owner of Zenyatta, said, "if Santa Anita was a dirt track, that would be a good start."

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Bring it! :ThmbUp:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e322vTpTyOE :ThmbUp:

[rwwupl]

From article above:

There are injuries we just didn't used to see," Sadler said.
Sadler said that in a recent poll of CTT membership, "70 percent of the trainers wanted Santa Anita to take out the track and put in a new and improved dirt track."


The percentage is higher than that from horse players I know. Craig Fravel and Dr. Arthur have good reason to support the synthetics ,no matter what.

I hope Ron Charles is listening...and do the right thing for a change.

[andymays]

From article above:




The percentage is higher than that from horse players I know. Craig Fravel and Dr. Arthur have good reason to support the synthetics ,no matter what.

I hope Ron Charles is listening...and do the right thing for a change.


They can throw anything they want at us. We have Lester! :ThmbUp: ;)

[Deepsix]

Not really alot to brag about, is it? There are basically 4 of you guys who post the same negative comments, each and every day, about SoCal racing. These comments generally go without rebuttle and whats to be made of that??

Press on McDuff.

[CincyHorseplayer]

It was only three months ago, on the heels of a synthetic BC, when the Blood-Horse foreign correspondent Mark Popham was calling on Bel and CD to do the "right thing" and convert immediately. And now with the strong possibility that SA might start this revolution heading in the other direction I have to wonder what Mr. Popham must be thinking now.


I never knew that.Now I'm going to have to go California on him,stalk him and key his car!!:D

[Valuist]

Now can we get Del Mar to rip out that awful surface they have?

[FenceBored]

Another view on the SA meeting from Bill Christine contains this nugget:

There are unconfirmed reports that Michael Dickinson, whose company has installed the Tapeta surface at Golden Gate Fields, in Dubai and a few other places, has dangled a heavily discounted offer in front of Charles, who to date has shown his cards to virtually no one. Full price for California's synthetic tracks was estimated at $10 million per; reverting to dirt at Santa Anita will probably cost $2-3 million.
-- http://www.horseraceinsider.com/blog.php/lines-in-the-sand/02142010-pro-ride-today-dirt-tomorrow/
New motto for someone. Plasti-tracks: 3x more expensive, not 3x better.

[toussaud]

i'm actually..becoming quite good at handicapping on the synethics. i guess it took a couple of years.

while i want them to go back to dirt, i'd settle for all three tracks using the same surface.

but my thing is the overall big picture and as long as socal is on fake turf, it iwll be irrelevant in the derby picture.

[andymays]

A little war with Nick Kling. Famous Journalist. :D

http://www.horseraceinsider.com/blog.php/John-Pricci/comments/02132010-as-dirt-track-looms-santa-anita-synthetics-issue-rages-on/#comments

Nick, you don’t have any clue how much you damaged yourself as a credible source for news and opinion. In two days you defined yourself as a “progressive” “PETA loving” journalist (and I use that term loosely).

Nick, I like prime steaks, martinis, and playing the Horses. If that makes me a bad guy then so be it.

Don’t tell me. You’re into global warming too right? LOL :lol:

[johnhannibalsmith]

Nick's a pretty good egg. He'll debate you fairly and have fun doing it. Heck, if he still has his TV show on Saturday morning, maybe he'll give you a chance to speak even louder. I read some of the comments and as long as you guys remain civil, it'll be a productive exchange - he's a lot of things, but a dummy isn't one of them.

[andymays]

Nick's a pretty good egg. He'll debate you fairly and have fun doing it. Heck, if he still has his TV show on Saturday morning, maybe he'll give you a chance to speak even louder. I read some of the comments and as long as you guys remain civil, it'll be a productive exchange - he's a lot of things, but a dummy isn't one of them.


John if you can read his comments and sympathize with him then I don't know what to say.

People that have been around horse racing and care about their customers (Horseplayers) need to wake up.

Nick Kling exposed himself today. :ThmbDown: It wasn't pretty! :ThmbDown:

[Valuist]

Andy-

Once again, great job exposing this fraudulent surface. Cannot wait to see real dirt racing return to Santa Anita.

[Stillriledup]

Sent to Craig Fravel:

How in the hell do you still have a job Mr. Fravel? You are one of the most clueless people to ever get involved in Horse Racing. It was easy when the economy was good wasn’t it? Step up your game Pal and quit whining.
Your time is up. Quit embarrassing yourself!

Your Pal,

Andy


http://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-racing/articles/55369/race-surfaces-dominate-california-summit-talk
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Excerpt:

“Why do handicappers hate us?” Fravel asked. “We’ve had closer races. If the races are going to be that much tighter, they are going to be harder to handicap. It makes it harder to eliminate horses.”

You want to know what's wrong with Horse Racing? Start with Craig Fravel of Del Mar. :lol: :eek: :rolleyes: :liar: :sleeping: :mad:


Dearest Craig,

The problem is HOW we GET to the 'close races'. The biggest problem with polytrack is that jockeys manipulate form on paper. If i had a dollar for every race where the racing form showed multiple speeds on paper and only one guy 'went' and the other jocks 'grabbed' i'd be a very richer man.

The problem with polytrack from a betting standpoint is that because the jocks quite often will grab a hard hold of a speed horse and take him back to last, this throws a monkey wrench into the handicapping process. If i bet on a deep closer because i see 3 one dimensional speed horses on paper and i know they're going to 'kill each other' i have to have a speed duel in order to have a chance to win with my horse who will be coming from the back. If i dont get that speed duel, i lose. Polytrack will prevent me from getting that duel because jocks will take back and not run 'true to form'

Your meet is too short to watch a few weeks and get your feet wet with current form. Hollywood is running on Cushion which is a far cry from what you have sir. Hollywood form on paper means nothing at all when handicapping Del Mar.

Polytrack has turned handicapping into a guessing game. You're guessing which jockeys will 'send' their speed horses into a duel and which guys will not. Every serious horseplayer has lost a bunch of money at Del Mar in a race where they predicted a speed duel that never developed.

Smart handicappers only bet on closers if they think there will be a decent enough early pace to 'set up' their late run. There are too many speed horses at del mar that are taken back (to avoid a duel) which makes it jockey racing and not horse racing. It makes serious players throw the form up in disgust when that happens.

Also, players like when the HORSES win races and not the track profile. In your signature race, the Pacific Classic, the race was won by a wide sweeper. If you had been following Del Mar at that moment, you know that the winner was going to be a horse sweeping 10 wide from the back. That race was won by the track, not the horses and that's why players don't like Del Mar.

If you have a large enough bankroll to box 10 horses in the trifecta and pray that three 20-1 shots run 1-2-3 than Del Mar might be for you. Most people can't afford to spend 720 on a 10 horse box, which means they have to actually HANDICAP the races.

Del Mar's new motto might be: Del Mar, a place where you can save money and not buy the DRF because what's in the DRF means nothing, jocks take speed horses back rendering the DRF useless, DELMAR a place where a 720 bankroll per race goes a long way, you can box 10 horses in the tri and kiss your rosary beads before the race and hope to hit the lottery.

Sincerely,
The Riled up one.

[andymays]

Dearest Craig,

The problem is HOW we GET to the 'close races'. The biggest problem with polytrack is that jockeys manipulate form on paper. If i had a dollar for every race where the racing form showed multiple speeds on paper and only one guy 'went' and the other jocks 'grabbed' i'd be a very richer man.

The problem with polytrack from a betting standpoint is that because the jocks quite often will grab a hard hold of a speed horse and take him back to last, this throws a monkey wrench into the handicapping process. If i bet on a deep closer because i see 3 one dimensional speed horses on paper and i know they're going to 'kill each other' i have to have a speed duel in order to have a chance to win with my horse who will be coming from the back. If i dont get that speed duel, i lose. Polytrack will prevent me from getting that duel because jocks will take back and not run 'true to form'

Your meet is too short to watch a few weeks and get your feet wet with current form. Hollywood is running on Cushion which is a far cry from what you have sir. Hollywood form on paper means nothing at all when handicapping Del Mar.

Polytrack has turned handicapping into a guessing game. You're guessing which jockeys will 'send' their speed horses into a duel and which guys will not. Every serious horseplayer has lost a bunch of money at Del Mar in a race where they predicted a speed duel that never developed.

Smart handicappers only bet on closers if they think there will be a decent enough early pace to 'set up' their late run. There are too many speed horses at del mar that are taken back (to avoid a duel) which makes it jockey racing and not horse racing. It makes serious players throw the form up in disgust when that happens.

Also, players like when the HORSES win races and not the track profile. In your signature race, the Pacific Classic, the race was won by a wide sweeper. If you had been following Del Mar at that moment, you know that the winner was going to be a horse sweeping 10 wide from the back. That race was won by the track, not the horses and that's why players don't like Del Mar.

If you have a large enough bankroll to box 10 horses in the trifecta and pray that three 20-1 shots run 1-2-3 than Del Mar might be for you. Most people can't afford to spend 720 on a 10 horse box, which means they have to actually HANDICAP the races.

Del Mar's new motto might be: Del Mar, a place where you can save money and not buy the DRF because what's in the DRF means nothing, jocks take speed horses back rendering the DRF useless, DELMAR a place where a 720 bankroll per race goes a long way, you can box 10 horses in the tri and kiss your rosary beads before the race and hope to hit the lottery.

Sincerely,
The Riled up one.


:ThmbUp: Riled Up. Del Mar is a disgrace in my opinon. How many falsehoods do they need to tell before people wake up?

The best one is the reverse osmosis watering system they have for the Polytrack while horses and humans drink tap water.

Just another "you can't make it up" from Del Mar California. :)

[Stillriledup]

:ThmbUp: Riled Up. Del Mar is a disgrace in my opinon. How many falsehoods do they need to tell before people wake up?

The best one is the reverse osmosis watering system they have for the Polytrack while horses and humans drink tap water.

Just another "you can't make it up" from Del Mar California. :)

I loved your piece on the San Diego reporter who was supposedly banned from the press box. because he 'didnt play nice' and write nice things. The public believes what they read in the papers is unbiased reporting, but we know differently, right?

[andymays]

I loved your piece on the San Diego reporter who was supposedly banned from the press box. because he 'didnt play nice' and write nice things. The public believes what they read in the papers is unbiased reporting, but we know differently, right?


That was Jeff Nahill from the North County Times. Del Mar threatened to ban his paper from being sold at the track. This was according to Jeff himself on the Roger Stein show last year.

The racing media has let everyone down over the last 30 years. There are only a handfull of guys like Pricci, Nahill, Wilson, Sondheimer, and a few others that tell the truth. The rest are marketing arms for the Tracks.

[rwwupl]

Dearest Craig,

The problem is HOW we GET to the 'close races'. The biggest problem with polytrack is that jockeys manipulate form on paper. If i had a dollar for every race where the racing form showed multiple speeds on paper and only one guy 'went' and the other jocks 'grabbed' i'd be a very richer man.

The problem with polytrack from a betting standpoint is that because the jocks quite often will grab a hard hold of a speed horse and take him back to last, this throws a monkey wrench into the handicapping process. If i bet on a deep closer because i see 3 one dimensional speed horses on paper and i know they're going to 'kill each other' i have to have a speed duel in order to have a chance to win with my horse who will be coming from the back. If i dont get that speed duel, i lose. Polytrack will prevent me from getting that duel because jocks will take back and not run 'true to form'

Your meet is too short to watch a few weeks and get your feet wet with current form. Hollywood is running on Cushion which is a far cry from what you have sir. Hollywood form on paper means nothing at all when handicapping Del Mar.

Polytrack has turned handicapping into a guessing game. You're guessing which jockeys will 'send' their speed horses into a duel and which guys will not. Every serious horseplayer has lost a bunch of money at Del Mar in a race where they predicted a speed duel that never developed.

Smart handicappers only bet on closers if they think there will be a decent enough early pace to 'set up' their late run. There are too many speed horses at del mar that are taken back (to avoid a duel) which makes it jockey racing and not horse racing. It makes serious players throw the form up in disgust when that happens.

Also, players like when the HORSES win races and not the track profile. In your signature race, the Pacific Classic, the race was won by a wide sweeper. If you had been following Del Mar at that moment, you know that the winner was going to be a horse sweeping 10 wide from the back. That race was won by the track, not the horses and that's why players don't like Del Mar.

If you have a large enough bankroll to box 10 horses in the trifecta and pray that three 20-1 shots run 1-2-3 than Del Mar might be for you. Most people can't afford to spend 720 on a 10 horse box, which means they have to actually HANDICAP the races.

Del Mar's new motto might be: Del Mar, a place where you can save money and not buy the DRF because what's in the DRF means nothing, jocks take speed horses back rendering the DRF useless, DELMAR a place where a 720 bankroll per race goes a long way, you can box 10 horses in the tri and kiss your rosary beads before the race and hope to hit the lottery.

Sincerely,
The Riled up one.



Riled up one,

You have hit on a most important point.

What you have described is what handicappers hate... the destruction of handicapping principles in favor of "strategy" or in other words you are no longer wagering on the horses, you are forced to wager on what is in the mind of of a man.

Oh, yes, the advocates will say all races have stategy and you must learn to read between the lines. Like all con games there is a grain of truth in that.

When you try to handicap what is in the mind of a man, I assure you that you will not be very accurate and it will cause you to cover more possibilities and require more money to compete with the deep pocket customers who do not handicap and use their money to "wheel" and root for the longest shot to win.

This destroys the original appeal of horse racing. It is a gambling game. The appeal was that the customers will compete with each other in the pari-mutuels. It was one mans handicapping skills against another...to select the winning HORSE today, based on past performance,speed ,looks etc. and the one with the best handicapping skills would prevail and be able to profit.

The conditions today have destroyed the handicapping process,(unless you are a mind reader) as we have known it in favor of the deep pocket player,carryovers,pentafectas and so forth, mixed with unpredictable surfaces and experimental maintenance procedures, with pace factors at the mercy of the jockey and his instructions.

Stewards do not do much today when they think the rules are violated, because they know all jockeys ,trainers and owners have lawyers to represent them if charged with anything serious.

On top of this, even if you are skillful, the take out will eat you alive.

When handicapping principles are destroyed, you have taken away the hope of winning,and sealed it with outrageous take outs.

Is horse racing dead? Heck no. Just return the game back to the fan base .

The people love horse racing..Grow the fan base, it is not that hard.

Leadership is on the wrong track.

rwwupl

[andymays]

Well said rwwupl! :ThmbUp:

[Igeteven]

Riled up one,

You have hit on a most important point.

What you have described is what handicappers hate... the destruction of handicapping principles in favor of "strategy" or in other words you are no longer wagering on the horses, you are forced to wager on what is in the mind of of a man.

Oh, yes, the advocates will say all races have stategy and you must learn to read between the lines. Like all con games there is a grain of truth in that.

When you try to handicap what is in the mind of a man, I assure you that you will not be very accurate and it will cause you to cover more possibilities and require more money to compete with the deep pocket customers who do not handicap and use their money to "wheel" and root for the longest shot to win.

This destroys the original appeal of horse racing. It is a gambling game. The appeal was that the customers will compete with each other in the pari-mutuels. It was one mans handicapping skills against another...to select the winning HORSE today, based on past performance,speed ,looks etc. and the one with the best handicapping skills would prevail and be able to profit.

The conditions today have destroyed the handicapping process,(unless you are a mind reader) as we have known it in favor of the deep pocket player,carryovers,pentafectas and so forth, mixed with unpredictable surfaces and experimental maintenance procedures, with pace factors at the mercy of the jockey and his instructions.

Stewards do not do much today when they think the rules are violated, because they know all jockeys ,trainers and owners have lawyers to represent them if charged with anything serious.

On top of this, even if you are skillful, the take out will eat you alive.

When handicapping principles are destroyed, you have taken away the hope of winning,and sealed it with outrageous take outs.

Is horse racing dead? Heck no. Just return the game back to the fan base .

The people love horse racing..Grow the fan base, it is not that hard.

Leadership is on the wrong track.

rwwupl


Those morons are on another planet