"Around The Horn" and now "P T I"

[sonnyp]

i would suspect there are not many who visit this site that are not big fans of horseracing. i think we all are guilty of not understanding how the general public cannot see the attraction and summarily dismiss what we hold so dear to our hearts.

every now and then, i get a reality "slap" in the face that reminds me that "all things must pass".

just now, first on ESPN's "Around The Horn" and then "PTI", 2 very popular sports forums, the topic of RA vs Zen was presented for reaction.

except for one individual on Around the Horn and tony kornheiser on PTI the yawns could not have been more pronounced !!!

tony realie referred to the 1 favorable responder on AtH as "the only person to visit an OTB not on the recently deceased list" and stated the only thing that would get him to watch it would be if danica patrick was one of the jockeys.

mike willbon on PTI, apologizing to his dead father who "loved" horseracing, said he could care less but WOULD feel guilty as he flipped the channel to find something really interesting. (this is a guy who LOVES the NHL and can't promote it enough.)

we shake our collective heads and ask," what's wrong with racing ?" the truth and stark reality is, that with so many things, racing's time has come and gone. it's on life support, and the plug is about to be pulled.

the vast, vast majority of society could care less.

[46zilzal]

That attitude is left to carry on by the clowns at the top who want $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ and nothing else.

The game is suspect for a number of very good reasons, the largest of which is the liberal use of analgesics, steroids, duretics, , milk shakes, bronchodilators etc while THE REST OF THE HORSE RACING WORLD BANS THESE ITEMS. just like they do in all other sports (at least in the rule book).

Second, imagine anyone following a sport that has popular champions for 14 months! Would the Babe, Wayne Gretzky, Michale Jordan or Kareem have been so popular if they just disappeared right after people got to know them?

Look at the biggest sports today and they are ALL TV accessible, are promoted, get loads of positive PR, have national commissioners to give uniform rules to their followers. OTHER than the Derby, (the coverage of the Breeder's Cup is pure crap lost to national television both in the US and Canada) there are no races that are promoted. You are not going to have a following if new fans are not getting a chance to see and experience it.

READ Headless Horsemen and it will give you a clue about the lack of direction in our sport coming from the "Dinnies" at the Jockey Club who refuse to accommodate the changing times.

I am glad I got into the game in the 60\s so that I got to see, up close and personal, many of the greatest this century has produced. I wouldn't give up my two, one on one audiences with Secretariat, for all the tea in China as well as old John, Slew, Alydar, Mr. Prospector, Ack Ack, Fort Marcy, Manta, Typecast, Fiddle Isle, Quicken Tree, Bid, Tom Rolfe, Devils Bag, Damascus, Cougar II, Nijinsky etc etc.

[toussaud]

hear me out here...


It's like...

If I came to your neighbor's door and I somehow had Street Cry with me and I just knocked on your neighbors door and said here man... you can have Street Cry... your neighbor would probably looka t me, look at the horse, and shut the door on me, or better yet call the police.

nevermind the fact that he could retire, his' kid's could retire and his kid's kids's could retire.

Just becuase the guy had the nerve to shut the door on me, doesn't mean anything is wrong with Street Cry. There is not.. It just means that the person who he is being presented to doesn't' have the capacity to appreciate it.

It's no different than dating. sometimes you can do everything right, and the person is just an idiot (cough my ex cough).

There are certain things wrong with racing.. but guys it's not like we were just born with scarlet letters on our head and we are made to bear this big cross. how many people have you taken to the races that hated it? I can' think of any.

The only thing this shows is that the people on that show bass in ignorance of not knowing what they are supposed to know as paid professionals, nothing more nothing less.

If people are too ignorant to appreciate our great sport it's their loss.

[Tom]

Watching ESPN, I get the distinct feeling that not too many brain waves are in operation there. Sports "reporters" and rocks.....similar IQs but the rocks have better personalities. :rolleyes:

[sonnyp]

Watching ESPN, I get the distinct feeling that not too many brain waves are in operation there. Sports "reporters" and rocks.....similar IQs but the rocks have better personalities. :rolleyes:


gee, kindof relects the vast, vast majority of our society !

[Zenyatta To Crush]

Many people I know do not follow horse racing and sometimes wonder why I do so much. If they were to see the Breeders Cup Classic on tv in the middle of the race, they would most likely still change the channel to something "better". But that's not saying horse racing is a boring sport or not entertaining, it just depends on if you attempt to enjoy it.

You're right, I've never had a friend come with me to the track and later told me they didn't have a good time. If people give it a chance, they usualy enjoy it. Their fun level goes up much higher though when they have a wager on the race, no matter how small it is, just something. People aren't gonna have as much fun if they know nothing about racing and don't bet.

I think that in order for horse racing to regain some of its popularity, they need to focus more on the betting side of it. Texas Holdem wasn't that popular but after ESPN started televising the WSOP, it has become much more popular. People enjoy playing against eachother and everyone thinks they have an edge. That is the same thing for horse racing. Sure, each track takes out a percentage, but we are still gambling against eachother and not against casino machines.

That's why I think every track should have the official programs contain all of the pp's. I've seen some tracks do this but many tracks force you to by them from a separate source. If we can educate more people about how to win money and have them "think" they have an edge, like poker, than we can get more fans.

As for the ESPN guys, screw Wilbon. He has been putting down horse racing for years now. Every time a story about horse racing comes on he says it's dead, like boxing. I'm sure he talks about other sports that he doesn't like, but he always has to say something negative about horse racing, probably because Kornheiser actually likes it.

[CincyHorseplayer]

The further away you get from the Red Sox and Yankees,the less interest on the Eastern Seaboard Sports Network.

[samyn on the green]

Racing is a high maintenance sport to follow. It is a very complex game that engages the mind whole. To follow horse racing you have to be married to it, constantly follow it and have a strong opinion about it while at the same time maintaining self discipline to ensure parimutuel profitability. No such complex skills/mental development is required to follow a ball sport; all you need is mindless rooting and a receptivity to being emotionally manipulated by the games.

The ball sports discussed on TV have broad appeal because they are easy to understand. They are simple to understand and the appeal is mostly in manipulating the emotions of the viewers in between commercials. Racing appeals to reason; reason is a mental facility that many people either do not use or do not realize even exists. With so few people using reason in their daily life racing has a limited market to draw upon.

Compared to the long term marriage that is watching horse racing, watching balls sports is like a going to a strip club with a pocket full of dollar bills. You can just jump into a ball sport, watch it, listen to what the presenters say, make their opinion your own and be sure to buy/use the products touted in the commercials. When the game is over you have cut all ties, just like a guy leaving the strip club.

[Ejmenz]

Racing is HUGE high maintenance.

When I'm immersed in Racing my interests wane in all other sports, it's a time issue, we all know nothing in gambling takes more work then handicapping horses.

I take a year, to a year and half off every ten years or so, it's amazing how much more time I have for other gambling and sports activities.

I won't forgive myself for missing Candy Ride, Mineshaft, and Dubai Millennium among others, but I was on a serious break.

You can always handicap, but to do it to the best of your ability, you need to be fresh.

The first race you handicap each day, will be your best effort of the day, and the last race will be your worst.

And the older you get, the more that fact will become evident.

[ManeMediaMogul]

There are really two problems:

Racing markets itself more as a gambling venue than a sport.

Now, when there is a great sporting event in horse racing - Zenyatta vs. Rachel - guys like Wilbon don't know how to cover it because all he's seen are the Breeders' Cup ads talking about Bob Neumeyer's trifecta score in a BC past.

We need to make stars of the horses, jockeys and trainers. Look at Nascar...nothing more boring than watching cars go 'round and 'round, but look at how many people sport those ugly jackets with #7 or Team Tide or the Go Daddy car.

Back in the early 90s, I suggested a Christmas catalog, selling trainer's stable jackets, to the NTRA. They said, "It would be too hard to license the apparel because they would have to negotiate a deal with each trainer."

Bullcrap.

Lukas was King at the time and could have sold 1000 jackets that Christmas at $100 a pop. I know Wayne. He would have jumped at the chance to make a few dollars and promote his outfit.

People are afraid of what they don't understand.

Past Performances are like hieroglyphics to people new to the sport. There is a lack of educational materials and handicapping classes. Most importantly, there should be a "mentor" program to help teach neophytes the ropes. (This is an area that HANA could really make a difference - "Spend the day with a handicapper.")

Keeneland has handicappers that can be secured for office parties, business meetings and the like, to answer questions and help attendees wager intelligently and have more fun. More racetracks should embrace this approach.

Folks spend hours doing sudoku and crosswords. Racing is a much better puzzle and has a possible financial reward attached to it - no better "time waster" than that!

[toussaud]

the catalog is actually brilliant.

how many girls would not want a chantel tee shirt? (hell I want one)

then you have the main stables... the godolphins, the juddmontes, the coolmores.....

it's no different than promoting teams in sports and truth be told, the majority of fans have a "team" they favor (juddmonte for me) and a team they love to see lose (coolmore for me)

[Relwob Owner]

the catalog is actually brilliant.

how many girls would not want a chantel tee shirt? (hell I want one)

then you have the main stables... the godolphins, the juddmontes, the coolmores.....

it's no different than promoting teams in sports and truth be told, the majority of fans have a "team" they favor (juddmonte for me) and a team they love to see lose (coolmore for me)



All good points-seems to me that you have to have a proactive governing body in place to make that happen and that body needs to be more creative than coming up with a phrase like "go baby go" and thinking that will help everything....

The RA/Zenyatta example is the kind of thing that has to happen more IMO-racetrack owners have to get off of their asses and make things happen and realize that their sport is suffering.......the worst part of the slots IMO is that it has taken motivation away from the powers that be and created a "welfare" for horse racing, as many have pointed out on this board.....

[cj's dad]

I wouldn't be overly concerned that these knuckleheads on both shows are indifferent to horse racing.

ATH is a waste of time and PTI is only mildly interesting IMO.

I find it amazing that ATH is still on the air.

[Trotman]

Mane Media Mogul very good post and your right about how any good idea falls on deaf ears. I could puke every time I go to the track and see the big lighted sign with the word SLOTS before the track name,that says it all come on in and let our machines fleece you faster than our stakes race this afternoon.

[Relwob Owner]

Mane Media Mogul very good post and your right about how any good idea falls on deaf ears. I could puke every time I go to the track and see the big lighted sign with the word SLOTS before the track name,that says it all come on in and let our machines fleece you faster than our stakes race this afternoon.


Going from the slots area at many racinos and then walking to the grandstand is like being in a time machine....

[Robert Goren]

Racing markets itself more as a gambling venue than a sport.

Poker is pure gambling and it is doing alright. The problem is that racing has no marketing.

[Ejmenz]

Poker is pure math.

Play poker long enough, and the best player always wins.

That's not gambling.

It's very boring though.

I've won 3000 person poker tournaments, hitting a signer at the track is way better, it's not close.

[Moyers Pond]

Poker is pure math.

Play poker long enough, and the best player always wins.

That's not gambling.

It's very boring though.

I've won 3000 person poker tournaments, hitting a signer at the track is way better, it's not close.

Easily the most ridiculous statement ever written here. Poker, is far from all math. It is very much gambling too. In fact, the ability to read a person is what makes poker much more than just math.

Horse racing just does not interest the general public when two fillies are running in some race they never heard of.

[toussaud]

Easily the most ridiculous statement ever written here. Poker, is far from all math. It is very much gambling too. In fact, the ability to read a person is what makes poker much more than just math.

Horse racing just does not interest the general public when two fillies are running in some race they never heard of.
but he's won tournaments with over 3000 players in them so he must be right mp

[sonnyp]

Horse racing just does not interest the general public when two fillies are running in some race they never heard of.



additionally, card it on a friday afternoon when the entire nation is either working or scrambling in rush hour traffic.

if it could be moved to friday.....why not the next day, saturday as a co feature ? oh, i forgot, that would give the fan and casual observer 2 for 1 and only 1/2 the revenue to the track management which we know always acts with the best interest of the industry at heart. (in case anyone is wondering....I'M KIDDING !)

[toussaud]

additionally, card it on a friday afternoon when the entire nation is either working or scrambling in rush hour traffic.

wondering....I'M KIDDING !)


kinda like I don't know...

60% of races ran all year anyway? ran when normal people can't see them? Somehow this arguement holds no weight durning "regular" season but it's more than valid now.

[cj's dad]

Are you all forgetting that the Breeders Cup begins ON A FRIDAY !!

[sonnyp]

Are you all forgetting that the Breeders Cup begins ON A FRIDAY !!

and we all know what a monumental success that has been.

[Relwob Owner]

and we all know what a monumental success that has been.


You can say that again...putting the Rachel/Z race on a Friday, just like the BC proves that two wrongs dont make a right.....

[PaceAdvantage]

There are really two problems:

Racing markets itself more as a gambling venue than a sport.What racing are YOU talking about? Certainly not the sport of Thoroughbred horse racing here in the good ol' USA!?!?!

In fact, one of the few constant complaints I read and hear about racing, is the fact that they do NOT market themselves as a gambling venue...but more of a sport/entertainment/family outing venue....

[ManeMediaMogul]

What racing are YOU talking about? Certainly not the sport of Thoroughbred horse racing here in the good ol' USA!?!?!

In fact, one of the few constant complaints I read and hear about racing, is the fact that they do NOT market themselves as a gambling venue...but more of a sport/entertainment/family outing venue....

I've been involved in racing for 50 years and can't remember one time it was ever marketed as "a family outing." Two girls I dated in high school were forbidden to go out with me by their mothers when they discovered I went to the track at least twice a week.

Racetrack owners want slot machines and casino games because they "think" their patrons are gamblers and they "think" if they bring more gamblers to the track, the handle on the horses will go up.

Wrong.

Horseplayers are not gamblers. They are in a class by themselves. Sure there are some people who bet random numbers or jockeys colors or horse's names but they are more likely to go to a slot machine or a blackjack table...it's action every pull or every hand...you waits seconds between each event instead of a half hour. It is brainless and you have no chance to win in the long term unless you count cards or learn how to manipulate dice

Our sport is about the animals and history. It is colorful and cerebral. It is exciting and entertaining. Gambling is just a benefit that its fans enjoy. There will always be horse racing and racing fans, even if all gambling was made illegal. Certainly purses might drop and only a few wealthy people would participate, but the sport isn't going away in the next 100 years and probably way beyond.

Gamblers want action. Horseplayers want to watch races and make informed decisions about who they wager on.

It really is about the sport and anybody seeking to develop long-term fans must appeal to the sporting aspect of the game. The desire to back an opinion will come easily enough once the game is understood.

Anybody that wants to gamble can but a scratcher at the gas station or convenience store. In some states and at some racetracks, the slot machines are everywhere so gambling is easy. Picking up the 'Form and ferreting out a winner is not, but the people who do are the ones that love the sport and God knows we need more of them.

[toussaud]

I've been involved in racing for 50 years and can't remember one time it was ever marketed as "a family outing." Two girls I dated in high school were forbidden to go out with me by their mothers when they discovered I went to the track at least twice a week.

Racetrack owners want slot machines and casino games because they "think" their patrons are gamblers and they "think" if they bring more gamblers to the track, the handle on the horses will go up.

Wrong.

Horseplayers are not gamblers. They are in a class by themselves. Sure there are some people who bet random numbers or jockeys colors or horse's names but they are more likely to go to a slot machine or a blackjack table...it's action every pull or every hand...you waits seconds between each event instead of a half hour. It is brainless and you have no chance to win in the long term unless you count cards or learn how to manipulate dice

Our sport is about the animals and history. It is colorful and cerebral. It is exciting and entertaining. Gambling is just a benefit that its fans enjoy. There will always be horse racing and racing fans, even if all gambling was made illegal. Certainly purses might drop and only a few wealthy people would participate, but the sport isn't going away in the next 100 years and probably way beyond.

Gamblers want action. Horseplayers want to watch races and make informed decisions about who they wager on.

It really is about the sport and anybody seeking to develop long-term fans must appeal to the sporting aspect of the game. The desire to back an opinion will come easily enough once the game is understood.

Anybody that wants to gamble can but a scratcher at the gas station or convenience store. In some states and at some racetracks, the slot machines are everywhere so gambling is easy. Picking up the 'Form and ferreting out a winner is not, but the people who do are the ones that love the sport and God knows we need more of them.listen to this guy. he speaks the truth

[PhantomOnTour]

I dont think we should be concerned that some young BOZO like Tony Reali doesnt like horseracing. Who the hell is he? A stat boy from PTI who now hosts ATH with such great characters as Mariotti and Plaschke... :rolleyes:
He scores arguments...errrrr...opinions. How do you keep score of that???
And Wilbon's a bowler for chrissakes....who's his hero...PDW???

[sonnyp]

I dont think we should be concerned that some young BOZO like Tony Reali doesnt like horseracing. Who the hell is he? A stat boy from PTI who now hosts ATH with such great characters as Mariotti and Plaschke... :rolleyes:
He scores arguments...errrrr...opinions. How do you keep score of that???
And Wilbon's a bowler for chrissakes....who's his hero...PDW???

your description of reali may be accurate, but unfortunately, he, very much, represents the market of today. personally, i take it as a compliment that nothing popular today appeals to me : politics, music, movies,athletes, t v etc.
although complimented, it doesn't mean the things i like will survive. what will survive are those things that generate interest and revenue from the masses and again, today, that is no longer horseracing.

for all the reasons described above, including its complexity and the demand on time and effort, it simply does not appeal to the vast majority of people under 50 and they're the ones that spend the money.

on the same note i watched parts of a documentary on baseball on the M L B network. it was extremely well done and very poignant by ken burns. it focused on baseball in the 40's and 50's and how it was such a fabric of american society. this era was slightly before my time, but i never realized how popular this sport was. the yanks, dodgers, cards and redsox. unbelievable, people lived and died for it! this too has changed and is not as desperate as horseracing, but no longer holds the place as "america's past time" as it once did. im sure there are many baseball fans that feel exactly the way we do.

[PhantomOnTour]

Good points. That Burns doc is awesome. Best stuff IMO is the early stuff from before WW2.

I guess when I start talkin about 'young' folk not knowing anything it means I am aging.

How bout this to attract some of the younger crowd(with miniscule attention spans)?
Have less time btw races. I find newbies get bored waiting 25mins or so for their next bet. Yes, you must saddle and warm up the horses, maybe drag and/or water the track, etc...but I think the time could be cut down by a bit so we could wrap up 10 race card in less than 4 1/2hrs. We already whine about MLB and NFL games going too long but no one cares about the ENTIRE afternoon it takes to play the ponies...more if you actually study.
Young folk simply wont devote that much time to racing, just my opinion.

[sonnyp]

we're all aging, my friend. "ask not, for whom the bell tolls" !

the important thing for us that, unfortunately for the "younger" crowd, we have the memory of times when things were different.....not necessarily better, just different.

given a choice, i believe most of us would return to those "different" days.

[CincyHorseplayer]

I think the dividing line has been getting separated for a long time and it's getting wider and wider.There is a cultural divide and the lack of interest in racing is just an example.I'm 37 and even people 3 years younger than me are completely in another,parallel universe.There is not a time to turn off the phone,the tv,the radio,sit down,possibly read or listen to mother nature or just enjoy the thought processes.It's now now now now now now now now,bang bang bang bang bang.Constant stimulation.Over communication.Thoughts seeping in by accident that only complicate the flow of stimuli.It borders on science fiction when you think about it.But don't think,stimulate!!

Poker is attracting the people willing to bet big sums of money because there is no wait.It's happening constantly,hands dealt flowing like a river.Plus there is the ego gratification of looking your opponent in the eye while you turn the knife in the their chest cavity by taking their money.It affords the opportunity to get mouthy and that is a huge psychological payoff that is an obsession for kids these days.

In my opinion that is the state of mind that is dealt with and horse racing doesn't have a chance to compete with it.Winning means thinking.And who the hell wants to think on their off days besides us geeks??!!!!!:cool:

[PaceAdvantage]

I've been involved in racing for 50 years and can't remember one time it was ever marketed as "a family outing."You obviously don't live near Belmont Park in the spring/summer.

Lots of tracks market themselves as family outing destinations.

Forget the word gambling. They should be marketing it as the only "gambling-like" opportunity out there that you have even the slightest chance at BEATING in the long run (besides poker and sports betting).

That's the type of marketing that has been sorely missing.

They've BEEN marketing the HORSE, the PAGENTRY, the HISTORY and all the other stuff you mentioned, and it HASN'T WORKED.

RARELY if ever, do they market the fact that this is a highly INTELLECTUAL and sometimes BEATABLE game....

Try that for a change and see what happens...and lower the take while you're at it...

[PaceAdvantage]

It really is about the sport and anybody seeking to develop long-term fans must appeal to the sporting aspect of the game. The desire to back an opinion will come easily enough once the game is understood.This is SO NOT TRUE on almost every level.

It's all about SUCKING PEOPLE INTO the intellectual CHALLENGE of handicapping. THAT'S WHAT HOOKS THE MOST PEOPLE.

Long-term fans are NOT going to be had, for the most part, through the "sporting aspect" of the game.

Long-term fans are MADE through the constant CHALLENGE of picking a winner, and the GOAL/PROSPECT of profiting in the LONG RUN.

[GARY Z]

While it is obvious that track attendance throughout this country is down, many of those fans since the late 90's have the ability to watch and bet at home, at OTB and even Casinos ,and therfore, avoid traffic, admission,parking
fees charged by many tracks, and the cost of gas and tolls.

To evaluate the differences in fan interest it would be enlightning(if possible) to know the actual number of fans wagering with various
internet and OTB sites including revenue, to determine the extent of
lost racing fans in the U.S.

Overiding this issue is the economy where Casinos are facing less
attendance and a younger population who probably have been lost
due to adverse publicity associated with
racing during the past few years(Barbaro, Eight Belles, medication,trainer and owner suspensions)

The solution, if any, is to televise the beauty of the sport, explain the
intellectual side of "turf speculation" as against throwing $$ on
the roulette table or into slots in an effort to attract new fans or hopefully
former fans to this great game.

Placing Racinos at tracks does little to attract racing fans unless the
Racetrack makes an effort to somehow supplement the Racino experience
with the beauty of this sport.

[Johnny V]

You obviously don't live near Belmont Park in the spring/summer.

Lots of tracks market themselves as family outing destinations.

Forget the word gambling. They should be marketing it as the only "gambling-like" opportunity out there that you have even the slightest chance at BEATING in the long run (besides poker and sports betting).

That's the type of marketing that has been sorely missing.

They've BEEN marketing the HORSE, the PAGENTRY, the HISTORY and all the other stuff you mentioned, and it HASN'T WORKED.

RARELY if ever, do they market the fact that this is a highly INTELLECTUAL and sometimes BEATABLE game....

Try that for a change and see what happens...and lower the take while you're at it...
It is the same at my track. I get flyers in the mail and they have advertised and promoted musical groups, fireworks, auto and motorcycle shows, speed dating, you name it, but hardly any mention of gambling on the horses.
I was wearing a track ball cap the other day and people were asking me if it was a car racing track.

[toussaud]

both of you are wrong and I can't believe you guys aren't open minded enough to realize that horse racing is different things to different people and should be marketed differently to different people.

To some it's a handicapping challenge

to some it's about the pretty ponies

to some it is a nice family outing that is cheap and safe while thrilling


to some it's a social event.



to most it's a mixture of all the above, some moreso than others. hell the only time I ever see my dad is when I run into him at the track.

I take a date to go to oaklawn and she could give a flying shit about the speed bias, but loves to go to the paddock to see the horses. they are beautiful, majestic creatures.

[Grits]

I think the dividing line has been getting separated for a long time and it's getting wider and wider.There is a cultural divide and the lack of interest in racing is just an example.I'm 37 and even people 3 years younger than me are completely in another,parallel universe.There is not a time to turn off the phone,the tv,the radio,sit down,possibly read or listen to mother nature or just enjoy the thought processes.It's now now now now now now now now,bang bang bang bang bang.Constant stimulation.Over communication.Thoughts seeping in by accident that only complicate the flow of stimuli.It borders on science fiction when you think about it.But don't think,stimulate!!

Poker is attracting the people willing to bet big sums of money because there is no wait.It's happening constantly,hands dealt flowing like a river.Plus there is the ego gratification of looking your opponent in the eye while you turn the knife in the their chest cavity by taking their money.It affords the opportunity to get mouthy and that is a huge psychological payoff that is an obsession for kids these days.

In my opinion that is the state of mind that is dealt with and horse racing doesn't have a chance to compete with it.Winning means thinking.And who the hell wants to think on their off days besides us geeks??!!!!!:cool:

Chp, many can agree, wholeheartedly, with what you've stated. Everything is about remaining connected 24/7. And . . . . everything is a about a rush, now, right this minute. I don't care where one is--its mindboggling to watch. Waiting to be seated in a restaurant for dinner last night, the adults my age--waiting was no problem, nor was conversation. Couples in their late 20s, early 30s, they were scrolling their own cellphones, no conversation with one another--nothing. Then, another gentleman, 40 maybe, on the phone . . I noticed, 3 times times during his meal. His wife, simply, continued eating, ignoring him and his phone conversations.

Racing cannot compete with this mentality. It just can't.

[Robert Goren]

Maybe I am a stick in the mud, but I do not think that a race track is a good place to take childern.

[ManeMediaMogul]

both of you are wrong and I can't believe you guys aren't open minded enough to realize that horse racing is different things to different people and should be marketed differently to different people.

To some it's a handicapping challenge

to some it's about the pretty ponies

to some it is a nice family outing that is cheap and safe while thrilling


to some it's a social event.



to most it's a mixture of all the above, some moreso than others. hell the only time I ever see my dad is when I run into him at the track.

I take a date to go to oaklawn and she could give a flying shit about the speed bias, but loves to go to the paddock to see the horses. they are beautiful, majestic creatures.

We are all correct but are saying the same thing in different ways.

(I am a little surprised at the vehement attitude of the moderator who is usually a little more even-keeled when he posts.)

The thing is, I'm not just spouting opinions here. I have been actively marketing racing since 1980. I know that what gets people interested in racing is the horses and the thrill of the race. Gambling seals the deal because they can legally participate in the outcome.

[Jay Trotter]

Detective, you aren't one of those "codgers" who doesn't think youngsters shouldn't be on the golf course either, are you? Youth is always the future and I would bet that 90% of the posters on this board were exposed to the thoroughbred game, to some degree, before they became adults!

Trotter:ThmbUp:

Maybe I am a stick in the mud, but I do not think that a race track is a good place to take childern.

[johnhannibalsmith]

I'll give the detective the benefit of the doubt so that we can agree and interpret the post in sense that he's not worried about their welfare, but rather his own. Kids are usually annoying in "adult" settings.

[PaceAdvantage]

(I am a little surprised at the vehement attitude of the moderator who is usually a little more even-keeled when he posts.)Vehement attitude? Because I capitalized a few words?

[my_nameaintearl]

For the younger people like myself it is a lot easier to bet 100 on a basketball game or a football game then it is to sit at the track and listen to people bitch about how it used to be.

[Grits]

For the younger people like myself it is a lot easier to bet 100 on a basketball game or a football game then it is to sit at the track and listen to people bitch about how it used to be.

Key word, here, being easy. One's brain can atrophy easier doing nothing but watching a ballgame too.

[my_nameaintearl]

Easier to find a bookie, not easier to handicap. I can now go to the track and bet on football if i want that is how easy it has become.

[toussaud]

For the younger people like myself it is a lot easier to bet 100 on a basketball game or a football game then it is to sit at the track and listen to people bitch about how it used to be.
I agree

i'm 26.. and frankly... please shut up about how it used to be and how everything is always wrong.

you want to attract fans?

seriously.


look at this forum. go out and look at all the titles.

80% of them are rants and complaints.

if you don't' like your damn sport, why should anyone else?


you show no enthusiasm for anything, then you get up and arms when someone with 1/10th your horse racing knowledge says 'screw this'

After listening to people complain about the "race" not being on a Saturday and drugs, bad trainers, high takeouts, unsound horses.... lol. you have defiantly "sold" horse racing alright.


we have, in the age of stud deals and million dollar mares, a HOY.. female..returning.. the undefeated BC champion returning, a man willing to upt up 5 freaking million dollars for them to run for less than 2 minutes... and people are STILL finding shit to complaint about



at some point, it gets old. it really really does.


In my short time on this earth, i have been able o attract a few people to the horse races, noticeably my mom, and the only reason she went was because she saw how much i honestly loved the game of horse racing, she figured it couldn't be that bad. now she's hooked.


no one wants to sit around and listen to every 5k claimer that ran 20 years ago would wipe the floor with a BC champion today, how everything isn't like it used to (granted.. it's not)...


who cares if the race is on a Friday. they are racing.

yes numbers are down, but there are more public companies related to horse racing than any other major sport.


I don't even think some of you enjoy horse racing. I think some of you and by you I mean collectively, fans, not just people here, just enjoy having something to whine about everyday.


While there are some things that need to be changed, be thankful for what you have and enjoy it. It would go a very very long way.

[Deepsix]

Right on ( as us old timers used to say) toussaud. Good post.

[Pace Cap'n]

i'm 26.. and frankly... please shut up about how it used to be and how everything is always wrong.

perfect driving record. i'm a grandma.

Hmmmmmmm.....

[cj]

Hmmmmmmm.....

I guess technically it is possible. :eek:

[Grits]

Pace Cap n, the same thought came to me, remembering further back, the same individual boast that he, while in his early twenties, created and sold one company for millions and is now well on his way to his second.

Two days ago, he's a grandma.

Aged twenty years and undergone trans-gender surgery, all in a span of weeks.

:lol: The internet IS amusing.:lol:

[toussaud]

Hmmmmmmm.....
2 words for ya.

crying game

[Grits]

Easier to find a bookie, not easier to handicap. I can now go to the track and bet on football if i want that is how easy it has become.

Now you've got a good clarification for me. Thanks. And, by the way, you have a hilarious name, its creates a good laugh.:)

[cj's dad]

Quote:
Originally Posted by toussaud
i'm 26.. and frankly... please shut up about how it used to be and how everything is always wrong.



Quote:
Originally Posted by toussaud
perfect driving record. i'm a grandma.



Hmmmmmmm.....

And the answer is ??????

[Relwob Owner]

Quote:
Originally Posted by toussaud
i'm 26.. and frankly... please shut up about how it used to be and how everything is always wrong.



Quote:
Originally Posted by toussaud
perfect driving record. i'm a grandma.




Hmmmmmmm.....

And the answer is ??????



This is like a good cliffhanger....maybe he was saying he drives like a grandma?

[Space Monkey]

You can always handicap, but to do it to the best of your ability, you need to be fresh.

The first race you handicap each day, will be your best effort of the day, and the last race will be your worst.

And the older you get, the more that fact will become evident.


I'm having trouble putting my words together as I worked 12 freakin hours today and I'm pushing 60. I just want to say that the above post rates a 10. You couldn't be more right. I've got the figs downloaded for Tampa Wednesday, but I think I'll get to them tomorrow. :sleeping:

[cj's dad]

So, start at the last race and work backwards !!

[rwwupl]

You obviously don't live near Belmont Park in the spring/summer.

Lots of tracks market themselves as family outing destinations.

Forget the word gambling. They should be marketing it as the only "gambling-like" opportunity out there that you have even the slightest chance at BEATING in the long run (besides poker and sports betting).

That's the type of marketing that has been sorely missing.

They've BEEN marketing the HORSE, the PAGENTRY, the HISTORY and all the other stuff you mentioned, and it HASN'T WORKED.

RARELY if ever, do they market the fact that this is a highly INTELLECTUAL and sometimes BEATABLE game....

Try that for a change and see what happens...and lower the take while you're at it...


It is a gambling game... the marketing has been a flop so far because the managers want to be above all that. The backside and a lot of front office people refer to their best customers as "degenerate gamblers". That is no way to run a successful business.

The income comes from gambling, so why not emphasize the fact that you can win money if you are better than the man next to you at handicapping the great sport of horse racing?

No one cares how much a horse costs and the customer interest is how fast he will run today. Customers go to the track to bet.

Of course you would have to lower the take and send home more winners, and then spotlight those who do win.

Then, watch the fan base grow.I would expect many problems would be on the way to resolution for all concerned.