Taulbot's calculator and story

[Trotman]

I thought I would pass along a story IMO needed to be told. This past Saturday a few buds and myself decided to
take a freind to the off track to get him out of his retirement home and bet a few horses. I took the DRF over to him on Friday to give a chance to handicap and left it at that. Well on the Saturday when picking him up on his table we're 4 thick journals and a Ray Taulbot Pace Calculator along with the form. I asked Andy did he use Taulbot's calc to pick his horses and he said every one and that he uses it for every horse he bets,it was a little yellow from age as he bought it I think in the 60's. I asked how it did and he replied look in my books. I looked in the books and listed was every bet, order of finish top three and jockey, payouts including exotics. At the end of the row was either a black + or a red - and a ROI for the race. This indeed was a trip down memory lane seeing the names of riders from days gone by,but most impressive was there was not many red - signs entered. I asked Andy how long it took him to cap his races and he said 4-5 hours and a little rant that the form is a waste of paper and ink because if they only printed the pace lines you needed to cap from the form would only be a few sheets thick and about the size of a harness program,lol.End of day Andy hit 6 winners which included 2 exactas and 1 trifecta,another back + going into his journal. :ThmbUp:

[bisket]

now theres a man who knows how to play the ponies. if it works don't fix it.

[atlasaxis]

Great story Trotman, thanks! I have the manual calc and was very happy when the software came out as it took f-o-r-e-v-e-r to do just one track, forget multicards. Has your friend considered switching over to the software?

[freeneasy]

i heard that calculator can get pretty hot

[ranchwest]

i heard that calculator can get pretty hot

In what sense?

[tribecaagent]

This fable, like every tale you've told, has zero credibility.

[Trotman]

AA there is more to it than just the calc. Andy was very adept at finding proper pace lines and match-ups. He in the beginning was a big follower of Jim The Hat Bradshaw and could probably recite to anyone The Hat's five step approach to the match-up. Andy is 80 young years of age
and at this point in life I don't think he would be looking to get into a computer which brings up another line Andy likes to use when he hears about a computer malfunction.
"If the bloody gizmo's were so smart why don't we let the bloody gizmo's figure out the problem themselves" Lol.

[atlasaxis]

i heard that calculator can get pretty hot

Unless you're implying something else, the manual calc I'm talking about is a plastic slide rule.

[Trotman]

AA yes it is the slide rule :ThmbUp:

[PhantomOnTour]

I have a Pace Calc but have misplaced the Amer-Var booklet that goes with it. I know how to do the basic pace/speed combined figs but cannot use the other functions without the booklet (such as making daily figs with track variants). Any help out there?

[Handiman]

I too have the slide rule somewhere. But have not seen it in a long time. Not sure I was ever any good with it.

Cool story though. Thanks for sharing.

Handi :)

[Trotman]

POT if my bud still has the booklet I'll scan it and e-mail it to you. :ThmbUp:

[RichieP]

AA there is more to it than just the calc. Andy was very adept at finding proper pace lines and match-ups. He in the beginning was a big follower of Jim The Hat Bradshaw and could probably recite to anyone The Hat's five step approach to the match-up. Andy is 80 young years of age
and at this point in life I don't think he would be looking to get into a computer which brings up another line Andy likes to use when he hears about a computer malfunction.
"If the bloody gizmo's were so smart why don't we let the bloody gizmo's figure out the problem themselves" Lol.

:ThmbUp::ThmbUp::ThmbUp:

[grexxon]

I have this calculator laying around since 1972. It's called K2 Calculator.
Just wondering if this is the one. If so maybe I will give it try, have not touch it in years.

Thanks
George

[GameTheory]

K2 is a different one. Check this out:


http://online.sfsu.edu/~hl/g.btech.html

[Tom]

I have a Pace Calc but have misplaced the Amer-Var booklet that goes with it. I know how to do the basic pace/speed combined figs but cannot use the other functions without the booklet (such as making daily figs with track variants). Any help out there?

Not sure if you saw them, but Doc Sartin wrote a few article in ATM on using the Pace Calculator. They are available on line - do a search of their article archives.

If I can find the link on my old computer, I'll post it.

[Cratos]

I thought I would pass along a story IMO needed to be told. This past Saturday a few buds and myself decided to
take a freind to the off track to get him out of his retirement home and bet a few horses. I took the DRF over to him on Friday to give a chance to handicap and left it at that. Well on the Saturday when picking him up on his table we're 4 thick journals and a Ray Taulbot Pace Calculator along with the form. I asked Andy did he use Taulbot's calc to pick his horses and he said every one and that he uses it for every horse he bets,it was a little yellow from age as he bought it I think in the 60's. I asked how it did and he replied look in my books. I looked in the books and listed was every bet, order of finish top three and jockey, payouts including exotics. At the end of the row was either a black + or a red - and a ROI for the race. This indeed was a trip down memory lane seeing the names of riders from days gone by,but most impressive was there was not many red - signs entered. I asked Andy how long it took him to cap his races and he said 4-5 hours and a little rant that the form is a waste of paper and ink because if they only printed the pace lines you needed to cap from the form would only be a few sheets thick and about the size of a harness program,lol.End of day Andy hit 6 winners which included 2 exactas and 1 trifecta,another back + going into his journal. :ThmbUp:

I believe the two best quantitative minds of modern handicapping was Ray Taulbot and Phil Bull.

[Fingal]

Not sure if you saw them, but Doc Sartin wrote a few article in ATM on using the Pace Calculator. They are available on line - do a search of their article archives.

If I can find the link on my old computer, I'll post it.

http://www.americanturf.com/pace/sartinarticle.cfm

http://www.americanturf.com/pace/sartinarticle.cfm?page=2

What I found as the 2 main concepts.


ALL WINNING HORSES EITHER SET OR OVERCOME THE PACE OF THE RACE




It is this simple yet brilliant concept that many Pace Calculator user’s fail to accept or completely ignore when reading the instruction manual.

NOWHERE in these directions does it EVER mention beaten lengths. It refers to 2nd Call PACE and FINAL TIME of the RACE ITSELF, never the horse. The ability of the HORSE’S PACE and FINAL time is measured against the PACE of THE RACE by the Calculator’s use of the SPEED RATING. This is the key to proper use and the Calculator’s most VITAL Rating.

[grexxon]

Wow That is neat. Never new there were so many.

Thanks George

[46zilzal]

I have that instruction manual around here some place. with his own variant called Ameri-var

[GameTheory]

Wow That is neat. Never new there were so many.

Thanks GeorgeGeorge -- nice catch. It even took me a minute to realize why you were calling me that.

[PhantomOnTour]

Thanks for your input, the articles were helpful.

[Arbor Heights]

I have the booklet that came with the calculator. I'd be happy to send a copy to those who would like.

[atlasaxis]

I bought the manual pace calc about 7 years ago and have the booklet that came with it. Anyone interested in that one is welcome to a copy. But if anyone has the booklet that is much older, I would love to see that and compare it to what is given out today. Thanks very much.

[PhantomOnTour]

I guess the question now is, does anyone here still use it? and to what degree of success? work better at some tracks than others?

Thanks for all the booklet offers. I have a lead on one right now but will contact ya'll if it falls through.

[Jake]

K2 is a different one. Check this out:


http://online.sfsu.edu/~hl/g.btech.html

I want the Delaney's "Horse Handicapper's Slide Rule". Too cool for words.

Thanks for the website.


Jake

[GaryG]

Ray didn't advocate always playing the top-rated horse. He used the figures in conjunction with various angles. His "A" angle has stood the test of time.

[atlasaxis]

I guess the question now is, does anyone here still use it? and to what degree of success? work better at some tracks than others?

Thanks for all the booklet offers. I have a lead on one right now but will contact ya'll if it falls through.

Don't know if you caught the first post in this thread but Trotman has a buddy who has uses it with good success as evidenced by the records he showed Trotman. When I used it I had pretty good success with it but it just took too long for me to 'cap a card. Shortly after I bought the manual pace calc, I picked up the pace comp software. I am able to run it automatically or manually pick my pace lines. I've been very happy with its performance, although its performance in the Wall Street challenge is a little lacking right now. It's nice to know that we're always just a bomb or two away from going over the top, and that it's all about the long term profits.

[fmolf]

Don't know if you caught the first post in this thread but Trotman has a buddy who has uses it with good success as evidenced by the records he showed Trotman. When I used it I had pretty good success with it but it just took too long for me to 'cap a card. Shortly after I bought the manual pace calc, I picked up the pace comp software. I am able to run it automatically or manually pick my pace lines. I've been very happy with its performance, although its performance in the Wall Street challenge is a little lacking right now. It's nice to know that we're always just a bomb or two away from going over the top, and that it's all about the long term profits.
I think another handicapper is doing work along these lines now.his name escapes me but his method is called "the pace fulcrum method"..I believe it purports to determine at what pace a horse will run his optimal race at and what pace threshhold he will fade in the stretch.Does anyone have more info on this method.All of Talbot's articles are available on the atm website free of charge and there are many good ones!

[Jake]

GaryG,

I seem to recall that Jeff Platt demolished this, using his numbers on his site. Perhaps he might be kind enough to jump in here. It would have been several years ago when Boxcar was posting on this stuff. Bit hazy on the exact percentages, but it wasn't viable. Jeff's dead on with his numbers, so I would certainly respect what he posts.

Jake

[Trotman]

I think I will take a form over to Andy on Friday and let him show me what he is doing with regards to using the Taulbot calc. Some of you are asking if the instructions for the 60's model was the same as today's model ? I really don't believe that Turf Monthly would alter something they have promoted for years. I do have Andy searching for his manual as some of you are looking or lost yours. Andy really can't believe what all the fuss is about as he told me that you really have to digest Jim The Hat Bradshaw's the Match Up and for those who would like to read this send me a PM. When I talked to Andy today he said that he turned his handicapping around after reading everything he could from Taulbot, Doc Sartin, and Jim The Hat. To Andy these three men did more for him in regards to winning and enjoying racing and he has always referred to them as the winning trifecta. :ThmbUp:

[46zilzal]

The great thing about this calculator was it made you evaluate the PACE of the Race as well as how the horse did against that yardstick.

[Jake]

The great thing about this calculator was it made you evaluate the PACE of the Race as well as how the horse did against that yardstick.

Do you think this is really the yardstick to use here? Key question. Is this a valid method, given your experience? Is pace of the race predictive or is how you do against the pace of the race predictive? Two questions here, I know, but this is an interesting, given my data. Given the Sartin perpective, is this valid?

Jake

[Horseplayersbet.com]

I've got the calculator and instructions (copyright 1961, the year I was born).
Never read the instructions or used the calculator.
It was my fathers, and I don't recall him ever using it either, though he did underline some things in the instructions booklet.
My father did his own track variants starting in the 60's. It was a great edge until updates in the racing form over the years took away most of his edge.

[Trotman]

FMOLF is the pace fulcrum method the work of Pizzola from his book Handicapping Magic. I should correct that, many believe it was the copy of an original Taulbot work. I have not heard much about his Handicapping Magic Software other than buyers have been fully refunded the total purchase price when they we're not satisfied with the results and have gone on to buy others.

[Wickel]

Always wanted a Pace Calculator, but never purchased one. Speaking of slide rules, I did buy a method called the Fifth Dimension Selector that was mainly based on odds with a few other rules.

[Wickel]

FMOLF is the pace fulcrum method the work of Pizzola from his book Handicapping Magic. I should correct that, many believe it was the copy of an original Taulbot work. I have not heard much about his Handicapping Magic Software other than buyers have been fully refunded the total purchase price when they we're not satisfied with the results and have gone on to buy others.

Haven't heard much of his software? I find this hard to believe. MP is probably the most notable pace handicapper around today and at the forefront of innovation in that arena. There are several threads about his work in this forum alone.

[Trotman]

Wickel I think the software must be on the web and the buyers of his book, some bought the software. I had read a
few threads or posts elsewhere where others had thought
that the fulcrum method was what was started by Taulbot.
IMO what I think or what anyone else thinks is what handicapping is all about, different strokes for different
folks. If someones methodology or idea's work for one
that's great, but maybe some of us don't grasp totally ones
idea's and then we think it does not work but others works
do. :ThmbUp:

[Donnie]

After following this thread I had to go downstairs and see if I have the manual that comes with the Pace Calculator...I do not...I always thought it was in the plastic envelope with the PC. If anyone is shooting copies, I would be more than happy to compensate you for one. Thanks in advance!

[Trotman]

To all here that are looking for Taulbot's manual my friend Andy called this morning and said he can't find the dang thing but said he has some boxes stored and was hoping I
would help him get them down from the closet,which I
will so stay tuned. He did mumble something about what all the excitement was all about but he would be glad to help. he will be showing me his use of it today and how he
picks his pace lines so I will be taking notes. :ThmbUp:

[Donnie]

Thanks Trotman...and thank Andy for me!

[Trotman]

Well I just got back from Andy's tutorial on the Taulbot calc
and it was good. We used last Saturdays form for time saving and he showed how he goes through the form for pace lines then on to the calc. I took notes and will now type them out in word as they would be too long for a post. Anyone interested send me a PM

[First_Place]

All of Talbot's articles are available on the atm website free of charge and there are many good ones!

That's just a mere fraction of the number of articles Ray Taulbot published for American Turf Monthly.

FP

[46zilzal]

Do you think this is really the yardstick to use here? Key question. Is this a valid method, given your experience? Is pace of the race predictive or is how you do against the pace of the race predictive? Two questions here, I know, but this is an interesting, given my data. Given the Sartin perspective, is this valid?

Jake
I eliminate about half the field that way particularly those that ran against slow early paces which then give them skewed late energy.

In the match up protocol, if you do not try to somehow find out what kind of pace pressure each entrant ran against, you are comparing apples and oranges.

In a route I need to find out how a horse did against the best 2nd call in today's field

[dartman51]

K2 is a different one. Check this out:


http://online.sfsu.edu/~hl/g.btech.html (http://online.sfsu.edu/%7Ehl/g.btech.html)

Wow! Those bring back some memories. I actually have a version of the KEL-CO CLASS CALCULATOR, that is NOT shown there. Mine is a SLIDE RULE.

I also have the RAY TAULBOT'S PACE CALCULATOR, CAL-Q-METER, K2 PERFORMANCE/CLASS CALCULATOR, and the HORSE RACE ANALYZER. :ThmbUp:

[dartman51]

I have the INSTRUCTIONS with AMER-VAR, scanned to PDF. If anyone wants a copy, e-mail me at dartman1015@yahoo.com

[grahors]

Some one was wondering how people do with the Taulbot computer. Few years ago, I got lucky and won the TVG online tourney and went to Vegas using the program. Have been close several times in the Bris online contests.
I have used it for many years and love the darn thing. I think the figures generated are so old that they are new again and shed different light on the races.
Fun stuff

[Robert Goren]

I had one of the Kel-Co side rules. It could really get hot and it could really get cold. The methodology behind it pretty simple. I doubt if it would work today as well with some tracks having inflated purses due money coming slots.

[Warren Henry]

For those of you who weren't receiving the results of the sessions where Andy was teaching Bob (TrotMan) how he used the Pace Calculator --

Andy had a major heart attack and has died. He and Trotman had been friends for 40 years. Please remember both of them in your prayers.

Funeral Thursday. Bob said that Andy had everything planned including how he was to be dressed for the funeral home. Cap, Jacket and black slacks. Fresh cigar in his mouth and his case of three full in his jacket pocket. Pace Calculator in his top jacket pocket and Thursday's Form in his hand. Andy told Bob that if he went first he wanted Bob to make sure he was ready for the track.

I can tell that I would have liked Andy a lot. I am sure that Bob is hurting right now. If you know him, drop him a PM to let him know that you care.