Confirmed: Rachel Alexandra will not race in Apple Blossom; proposed 3-race series

[thorobasePA]

Official, according to the Thoroughbred Times http://j.mp/doyU87:

"Asmussen told Jackson "it is not in the best interest of [Rachel] to race April 3..."

"Jackson said he has proposed to the NTRA and Z's connections a three-race series "to rival the Triple Crown"

[tzipi]

Official, according to the Thoroughbred Times http://j.mp/doyU87:

"Asmussen told Jackson "it is not in the best interest of [Rachel] to race April 3..."

"Jackson said he has proposed to the NTRA and Z's connections a three-race series "to rival the Triple Crown"

Yeah April 3rd a bit early. Was hoping but knew it would be a stretch. BUT Wooooooo I love the idea of the 3 race series :jump: . Rumor was Jackson proposed the three race series with Moss last year but Moss didn't want to. So will he this year??

[cpitt84]

I am surprised. I know april 3rd is early but 5 million dollars?

Like an ESPN writer said, if it were up to these mares they would race.

The owners are getting in the way of it!

[johnhannibalsmith]

So what happens if one of them can't make a leg of the new three race series? It sounds great, but when its near impossible to get someone to commit to a race in two weeks, how do you get anyone to commit to a series of races?

[sandpit]

This is more b.s. coming out of the RA camp. Here's a part of the press release:

"...If all goes according to schedule, and we do not have any further weather delays, the earliest we could have a prep race would be in the middle of March. It is then not fair to Rachel to ask her to race again three weeks later."

So, it was okay to wheel her back in two weeks in the Preakness, a race she wasn't even being trained for by her previous connections, but SA couldn't have her ready for the Apple Blossom. What hogwash. I'd be willing to bet right now that she runs fewer races than Zenyatta this year, and I'm assuming both stay healthy through the BC.

After her Feb. 6 work, she was described as "unbelievable" by her asst. trainer. I would have to believe in another 2 months that they will have run out of superlatives for her training, yet she still won't have raced.

Very frustrating for someone who's been a fan since she was 2. :mad:

[cpitt84]

I loved the movie Seabuscuit and the talk of these two horses meeting is like the movie! Its so neat to be able to witness this first hand and to have all this excitement building.

[GaryG]

I believe that the Zenyatta camp said that the Apple Blossom was in their plans anyway. Now, what if she goes to Oaklawn and gets beat? The bloom will be off the rose.

[BirdstoneFTW]

This is more b.s. coming out of the RA camp. Here's a part of the press release:

"...If all goes according to schedule, and we do not have any further weather delays, the earliest we could have a prep race would be in the middle of March. It is then not fair to Rachel to ask her to race again three weeks later."

So, it was okay to wheel her back in two weeks in the Preakness, a race she wasn't even being trained for by her previous connections, but SA couldn't have her ready for the Apple Blossom. What hogwash. I'd be willing to bet right now that she runs fewer races than Zenyatta this year, and I'm assuming both stay healthy through the BC.

After her Feb. 6 work, she was described as "unbelievable" by her asst. trainer. I would have to believe in another 2 months that they will have run out of superlatives for her training, yet she still won't have raced.

Very frustrating for someone who's been a fan since she was 2. :mad:

"Owner Jess Jackson announced in a press release late Wednesday afternoon that Rachel Alexandra would not be ready to run against a horse the caliber of Zenyatta in the Apple Blossom."

[wisconsin]

Once again, the wussification of the breed has reared it's ugly head. She runs against the boys 3 times, once off of 14 days rest. Now, at 4 years old, she may or may not run much in 2010, can get ready to race within five weeks for some measly, easy prep against nobody, but can't "wheel" back in 21 days in a tougher race? Puhleeze. Cheap claimers do it all of the time. Last I checked, she is a race horse. A great one, but nonetheless, a pampered one. Give me the horses of yesteryear, please.

[tzipi]

This is more b.s. coming out of the RA camp. Here's a part of the press release:

"...If all goes according to schedule, and we do not have any further weather delays, the earliest we could have a prep race would be in the middle of March. It is then not fair to Rachel to ask her to race again three weeks later."

So, it was okay to wheel her back in two weeks in the Preakness, a race she wasn't even being trained for by her previous connections, but SA couldn't have her ready for the Apple Blossom. What hogwash. I'd be willing to bet right now that she runs fewer races than Zenyatta this year, and I'm assuming both stay healthy through the BC.

Very frustrating for someone who's been a fan since she was 2. :mad:

The Preakness was her 5th start of the year. It was easier to bring her right back into the Preakness. She was well into running and training. Little different I think.

[tzipi]

Once again, the wussification of the breed has reared it's ugly head. She runs against the boys 3 times, once off of 14 days rest. Now, at 4 years old, she may or may not run much in 2010, can get ready to race within five weeks for some measly, easy prep against nobody, but can't "wheel" back in 21 days in a tougher race? Puhleeze. Cheap claimers do it all of the time. Last I checked, she is a race horse. A great one, but nonetheless, a pampered one. Give me the horses of yesteryear, please.

Well last year when she was running back she was well into her races and training in the year. LAST YEAR when she started, she ran a race than was off for a month before her second one. She didn't run back to back last year off her winter layoff.

[redshift1]

Soon Jackson will be asking for a 10lb weight allowance, especially against a horse the calibre of Z.

[BirdstoneFTW]

Soon Jackson will be asking for a 10lb weight allowance, especially against a horse the calibre of Z.

And soon the Mosses will avoid the proposed 3 race series.



Oh wait, they've already done that.

[cj]

This is more b.s. coming out of the RA camp. Here's a part of the press release:

"...If all goes according to schedule, and we do not have any further weather delays, the earliest we could have a prep race would be in the middle of March. It is then not fair to Rachel to ask her to race again three weeks later."

So, it was okay to wheel her back in two weeks in the Preakness, a race she wasn't even being trained for by her previous connections, but SA couldn't have her ready for the Apple Blossom. What hogwash. I'd be willing to bet right now that she runs fewer races than Zenyatta this year, and I'm assuming both stay healthy through the BC.



Totally not the same thing. Of course she would be ready for the Preakness, she was in full training at the time and had been running for months.

[redshift1]

Unlikely they will ever race.

[wisconsin]

Well last year when she was running back she was well into her races and training in the year. LAST YEAR when she started, she ran a race than was off for a month before her second one. She didn't run back to back last year off her winter layoff.

Not buying into this logic. She is a great race horse, and she is capable of great things. Not picking on her, but seriously, this is a trend that horse racing has seen over and over in the last 15 years. Great horses do great things. Conquistidor Cielo won the Belmont off 5 days rest from the very tough Met Mile vs. older horses. To say she "can't" is pure folly. My opinion only.

[tzipi]

Not buying into this logic. She is a great race horse, and she is capable of great things. Not picking on her, but seriously, this is a trend that horse racing has seen over and over in the last 15 years. Great horses do great things. Conquistidor Cielo won the Belmont off 5 days rest from the very tough Met Mile vs. older horses. To say she "can't" is pure folly. My opinion only.

No I agree. Racing back then was different. But today the breed is different. Decades of breeding speed to speed has weakned the TB and they are def not as durable as they were years ago.

But I'm dont think of anything she's doing as bad because as I said, she ran once off the winter break last year and then took a month off. No different. I would stick to the same. They have ALL year to run together. It's just the beginning of the year and people are saying, "they will never meet now". I'd agree if it was October now :D

[slew101]

My guess is they don't meet until Saratoga, then possibly the BC Classic.

[Space Monkey]

I think you are all missing the point. The BC is RA's goal. They want her to PEAK in Nov, not August. April to Nov is 8 months. Too long a time frame for her. They don't want to run her, then stop her, then run her again. I don't expect RA to run more than 3 or 4 times before the BC.

[delayjf]

Can anyone verify the three race proposal from last year? I'd be curious as to what three races Jackson proposed.

[wisconsin]

My guess is they don't meet until Saratoga, then possibly the BC Classic.


I would be shocked if they meet at Saratoga. No way Zenyatta is going to be on a plane for 6 hours. It will have to be in the BC because of the centralized location. I can't think of any other venue that would be as logical as that. Maybe Oaks day. Oaklwan was attractive because they both have won there.

[Robert Goren]

Of one thing I am sure, the ducking by both sides will continue. These two will not meet until the breeders cup, if then. Z will have made a trip to the dirt this year, I doubt if sees it again til fall. I hope I wrong but I wonder about RA's health. Good horses just don't work in 52 and change very often. JMO

[miesque]

I am fast getting to the point where I am not going to be speculating any more where or if they meet and if so for how many races, because this perpetual speculation is starting to get rather tiring (at least for me). But while I still somewhat care, looking at the calendar my best guess would be the Stephen Foster on Jun 12. Churchill has been known to raise that purse for the right horses and it far enough the road that both should be able to round into their best form prior.

[tzipi]

Can anyone verify the three race proposal from last year? I'd be curious as to what three races Jackson proposed.

Last year supposedly Jackson proposed a 3 race series to Moss. He wanted one race on dirt, one on synthetic, and one on turf. But Moss said no. So I guess he's trying it again now.

[wisconsin]

Last year supposedly Jackson proposed a 3 race series to Moss. He wanted one race on dirt, one on synthetic, and one on turf. But Moss said no. So I guess he's trying it again now.


If they are going to be racing RA as little as possible with the BC being the goal, there is no way you will ever see these two on the grass, and doubtfull a synth race would ever take place. 4 or 5 races on the calendar do not permit this series to happen for RA. The only grass race for any money is the Million or the Beverly D. And if they might meet outside of the BC, something will "happen" casuing one or the other to pass the rwce.

[jeebus1083]

Oaklawn had balls for putting up $5 Million for the Apple Blossom if both RA/Z ran in the race. Let's see any other track do something of that magnitude between now and September, and lets see what transpires.

My gut says we ain't seeing a showdown til Breeders' Cup or not at all.

[Kimsus]

I would suggest to Oaklawn Park Mgt. to ask Jackson/Asmussen if they push the race back a week to Apr 10, will this suffice their schedule of 4 weeks in between races. This would seem reasonable to me if they truly want to race.

[tzipi]

If they are going to be racing RA as little as possible with the BC being the goal, there is no way you will ever see these two on the grass, and doubtfull a synth race would ever take place. 4 or 5 races on the calendar do not permit this series to happen for RA. The only grass race for any money is the Million or the Beverly D. And if they might meet outside of the BC, something will "happen" casuing one or the other to pass the rwce.

Well Zenyatta has run very few times every year,so this is not a RA thing. She has about the same amount of races as RA does and she's 6. Plus, we do not know what they are going to do for the year. They could race alot of a little. It's just February. Who can tell. I think we are all rushing and getting too geared up :D . We got all year guys.

[Hanover1]

Put them both on a train, and let them meet in the middle-2 days later.....

[tzipi]

Put them both on a train, and let them meet in the middle-2 days later.....

:D :ThmbUp:

[Mineshaft]

I am surprised. I know april 3rd is early but 5 million dollars?

Like an ESPN writer said, if it were up to these mares they would race.

The owners are getting in the way of it!



No the owners are not getting in the way of it. Common sense is getting in the way of it. Rachael will not be at her best April 3rd and they have done the right thing of not running.

[Mineshaft]

This is more b.s. coming out of the RA camp. Here's a part of the press release:

"...If all goes according to schedule, and we do not have any further weather delays, the earliest we could have a prep race would be in the middle of March. It is then not fair to Rachel to ask her to race again three weeks later."

So, it was okay to wheel her back in two weeks in the Preakness, a race she wasn't even being trained for by her previous connections, but SA couldn't have her ready for the Apple Blossom. What hogwash. I'd be willing to bet right now that she runs fewer races than Zenyatta this year, and I'm assuming both stay healthy through the BC.

After her Feb. 6 work, she was described as "unbelievable" by her asst. trainer. I would have to believe in another 2 months that they will have run out of superlatives for her training, yet she still won't have raced.

Very frustrating for someone who's been a fan since she was 2. :mad:





It was okay to wheel her back in 2 weeks for the Preakeness because she was at her best at that time. She was fit as a fiddle and was in peak form.


She is NOT IN PEAK FORM right now. Shes coming off a 8 month layoff.


Some of you would absolutely destroy this horse if yall were training her.

[Kimsus]

And who is to say Zenyatta will be at her best on Nov 06...

[Mineshaft]

Once again, the wussification of the breed has reared it's ugly head. She runs against the boys 3 times, once off of 14 days rest. Now, at 4 years old, she may or may not run much in 2010, can get ready to race within five weeks for some measly, easy prep against nobody, but can't "wheel" back in 21 days in a tougher race? Puhleeze. Cheap claimers do it all of the time. Last I checked, she is a race horse. A great one, but nonetheless, a pampered one. Give me the horses of yesteryear, please.





Shes not a cheap claimer. Learn the game Laddie..

[Mineshaft]

My guess is they don't meet until Saratoga, then possibly the BC Classic.





agree

[Mineshaft]

I would suggest to Oaklawn Park Mgt. to ask Jackson/Asmussen if they push the race back a week to Apr 10, will this suffice their schedule of 4 weeks in between races. This would seem reasonable to me if they truly want to race.





No that wont work. She wont be in peak form till probably June. They are not going to face Zenyatta until shes dead fit and at the top of her game. Pushing it back one week makes no sense. They would have to push it back 3 months and by that time Oaklawn is closed.

[Kimsus]

No that wont work. She wont be in peak form till probably June. They are not going to face Zenyatta until shes dead fit and at the top of her game. Pushing it back one week makes no sense. They would have to push it back 3 months and by that time Oaklawn is closed.

You probably don't know it, but in a way you have just illustrated what I have been saying about Jess Jackson for a month now... :rolleyes:

[tzipi]

And who is to say Zenyatta will be at her best on Nov 06...

I think she will. I think both will be as they are both pure talent. Also I rather them face eachother later in the year July- August and on than right away April 3rd. It seems like a rush when they have all year. Let them get into their races and form.

[Kimsus]

I think she will. I think both will be as they are both pure talent. Also I rather them face eachother later in the year July- August and on than right away April 3rd. It seems like a rush when they have all year. Let them get into their races and form.

She will be pushing 7 yrs of age in Nov...Off the top of my head I can't think of a mare who was at the top of her game at that age in NA, or perhaps that is reason why they are in no rush to meet her this spring.

Some have said Rachel needs a prep, Asmussen has said the earliest they could give her a prep is 3 weeks before the Apr 3 date of the Apple Blossom. Pushing back the race to Apr 10 is a very fair way to accomodate Rachel while not disrupting the other horses training regimen. But something tells me the goal posts will move again if they bend over backwards to accomodate her, sorry to sound cynical but I would be surprised if they meet as opposed to when they will.

[Mineshaft]

You probably don't know it, but in a way you have just illustrated what I have been saying about Jess Jackson for a month now... :rolleyes:




and tell me what is that im not a mind reader

[tzipi]

She will be pushing 7 yrs of age in Nov...Off the top of my head I can't think of a mare who was at the top of her game at that age in NA, or perhaps that is reason why they are in no rush to meet her this spring.

Some have said Rachel needs a prep, Asmussen has said the earliest they could give her a prep is 3 weeks before the Apr 3 date of the Apple Blossom. Pushing back the race to Apr 10 is a very fair way to accomodate Rachel while not disrupting the other horses training regimen. But something tells me the goal posts will move again if they bend over backwards to accomodate her, sorry to sound cynical but I would be surprised if they meet as opposed to when they will.

I really think they will Kimsus. I mean they have all year still. Yeah is it a sure thing with these two big ones? No, but I'm hoping ;)

[bisket]

this race or these races won't take place in new york. zen's connections detest the detention barn, and have said on a number of occassions they're not going to run her in new york. if its 3 races churchill, delaware (delaware handicap), and churchill is the way i think it goes down. if it happens in delaware da bisket will be in the house :jump:

[Seabiscuit@AR]

Story says Jackson asked Oaklawn to put the race back a week but they said not possible. Not sure why this would not be possible. It is an obvious solution. Oaklawn are willing to change the purse why not the date too? Sometimes a stakes race is washed out by rain and often it will be run a week later so it is not impossible to change the dates of stakes races

[Grits]

Asmussen has been quoted from the morning at Fairgrounds that she began galloping back, that an April 3rd race was too quick from this layoff. It would push her too much, too soon.

He knows his filly, and he knows her better than anyone. Including any one of us here--whether one's qualified opinion has us working in the industry or putting our cash in the game. He knows what works and what will not.

Among Asmussen's skills--he's consistent. He has been in the past. And, true to form, a 5 million April 3rd promise hasn't changed that consistency.

It doesn't matter to me when or where they race, as much as my hope exists that they do. Maybe Mr.Jackson, Mr.Moss and Mr.Waldrop can all come to a conclusion that will benefit racing fans. One likes to believe that would be a good part of their goal.

[joanied]

I am surprised. I know april 3rd is early but 5 million dollars?

Like an ESPN writer said, if it were up to these mares they would race.

The owners are getting in the way of it!

These two owners don't need the money...sure, it'd be nice, boost the mares bankrolls...but at the expense of RA not being 110%...it just isn't worth it...
and IMO, they aren't getting in the way of anything...and it wouldn't surprise me if this ESPN guy knows jack about training a horse...
be patient...and when it happens, both mares will be 110% fit and ready to rumble:jump:

[joanied]

I loved the movie Seabuscuit and the talk of these two horses meeting is like the movie! Its so neat to be able to witness this first hand and to have all this excitement building.

There ya go:ThmbUp:

[joanied]

This is more b.s. coming out of the RA camp. Here's a part of the press release:

"...If all goes according to schedule, and we do not have any further weather delays, the earliest we could have a prep race would be in the middle of March. It is then not fair to Rachel to ask her to race again three weeks later."

So, it was okay to wheel her back in two weeks in the Preakness, a race she wasn't even being trained for by her previous connections, but SA couldn't have her ready for the Apple Blossom. What hogwash. I'd be willing to bet right now that she runs fewer races than Zenyatta this year, and I'm assuming both stay healthy through the BC.

After her Feb. 6 work, she was described as "unbelievable" by her asst. trainer. I would have to believe in another 2 months that they will have run out of superlatives for her training, yet she still won't have raced.

Very frustrating for someone who's been a fan since she was 2. :mad:

It is frustrating...but you must realize that at the time of the Preakness, Rachel had been in serious traing and racing...big difference than now, when she's just coming back...
it sucks, but it is what it is:faint:

[Kimsus]

I really think they will Kimsus. I mean they have all year still. Yeah is it a sure thing with these two big ones? No, but I'm hoping ;)

Why did Jackson propose a 3 race series...he sure wants to dictate the terms if these 2 meet. Yep if they do meet I would hope both connections will be happy with the conditions of the race and just let the horses decide it on the track. I'm pretty sure as fans we all want to see it.

[joanied]

It was okay to wheel her back in 2 weeks for the Preakeness because she was at her best at that time. She was fit as a fiddle and was in peak form.


She is NOT IN PEAK FORM right now. Shes coming off a 8 month layoff.


Some of you would absolutely destroy this horse if yall were training her.

:ThmbUp: :ThmbUp: :ThmbUp: Dynamite post....I think some of this bitchin' is rather selfish. I can't wait for the meet up either...but some folks just don't get it...or don't want to.

[wisconsin]

Shes not a cheap claimer. Learn the game Laddie..

The game is racing and it's chock full of excuses. Sorry if you "know" the game more than someone else. She's a race horse. A special one, but a race horse nonetheless. The fear is she won't be peak. But she's peak enough to run March 13th? Huh? If Zenyatta enters THAT race (she won't), would RA scratch? That's my opinion and I'm sticking to it.

[Dahoss9698]

I would suggest to Oaklawn Park Mgt. to ask Jackson/Asmussen if they push the race back a week to Apr 10, will this suffice their schedule of 4 weeks in between races. This would seem reasonable to me if they truly want to race.

Jackson asked. They said pushing it back a week would not be possible.

http://www.drf.com/news/article/110706.html

Jackson said he asked Oaklawn officials to delay the Apple Blossom by one week, but track officials informed Jackson on Wednesday that would not be possible, according to Jackson's press release.

[Kimsus]

Story says Jackson asked Oaklawn to put the race back a week but they said not possible. Not sure why this would not be possible. It is an obvious solution. Oaklawn are willing to change the purse why not the date too? Sometimes a stakes race is washed out by rain and often it will be run a week later so it is not impossible to change the dates of stakes races

If this is correct, for the life of me I don't know why they don't if this is the only thing keeping a race from taking place.

[miesque]

Interesting perspective from Bloodhorse.com, recommend reading the entire article.

http://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-racing/articles/55311/rachel-alexandra-wont-run-in-apple-blossom

"The fans have spoken," Jackson said. "The media has spoken. Everyone wants to see Rachel race against Zenyatta, including me. In fact, I want it to happen several times this year.



"We have been in discussions with Alex Waldrop, president and CEO of National Thoroughbred Racing Association, with the hope of coordinate training schedules, racing schedules, purses and all ancillary factors, so that we can all agree upon three dates and three venues for what will be a racing series to rival the Triple Crown."


Jerry Moss, who co-owns Zenyatta with his wife Ann, was surprised by Jackson's announcement, and told The Associated Press: ``I have no idea what he's even talking about. Which three races? And where? And when?

[Kimsus]

Jackson asked. They said pushing it back a week would not be possible.

http://www.drf.com/news/article/110706.html

Jackson said he asked Oaklawn officials to delay the Apple Blossom by one week, but track officials informed Jackson on Wednesday that would not be possible, according to Jackson's press release.

I saw that later, pretty amazing the illogic from all sides. Any reason why they can't move it a week? It seems pretty ridiculous to me considering the win-win from a PR standpoint Oaklawn would be set to gain from a possible match up between the 2.

[SmartyLane]

These two owners don't need the money...sure, it'd be nice, boost the mares bankrolls...but at the expense of RA not being 110%...it just isn't worth it...
and IMO, they aren't getting in the way of anything...and it wouldn't surprise me if this ESPN guy knows jack about training a horse...
be patient...and when it happens, both mares will be 110% fit and ready to rumble:jump:


AMEN :jump:

[Zenyatta To Crush]

I saw that later, pretty amazing the illogic from all sides. Any reason why they can't move it a week? It seems pretty ridiculous to me considering the win-win from a PR standpoint Oaklawn would be set to gain from a possible match up between the 2.
They probably want to keep Arkansas Derby Day by itself on April 10 and not combine it with Rachel-Zenyatta day. Yeah, it would be sweet to see both of these races on the same day, but Cella can make more of his money back by separating out the big race days. If I were him, I'd say screw it and move the race back.

My question is, does Jackson really believe RA would be in top form with just an extra week of training? She'd probably need to have 2 races under her belt to be near top form. I think he just said that to make it look like he was trying to make it work. Don't worry, as long as both horses stay in good health, we WILL one day get to see them race against each other

[Grits]

Interesting perspective from Bloodhorse.com, recommend reading the entire article.

http://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-racing/articles/55311/rachel-alexandra-wont-run-in-apple-blossom

"The fans have spoken," Jackson said. "The media has spoken. Everyone wants to see Rachel race against Zenyatta, including me. In fact, I want it to happen several times this year.



"We have been in discussions with Alex Waldrop, president and CEO of National Thoroughbred Racing Association, with the hope of coordinate training schedules, racing schedules, purses and all ancillary factors, so that we can all agree upon three dates and three venues for what will be a racing series to rival the Triple Crown."


Jerry Moss, who co-owns Zenyatta with his wife Ann, was surprised by Jackson's announcement, and told The Associated Press: ``I have no idea what he's even talking about. Which three races? And where? And when?

Miesque, the phrasing, the sentence structure of these two gentlemen is quite interesting isn't it?

Men believe women caddy and snipping? This is a glorified p****** match.

We all may have to adjust our hopes of seeing the two on the track.

From Moss:

"It's a shame they are not going to show up for that race,''

Moss said in a telephone interview with AP. "In the meantime, there's some plan here, to run in three races, to which we're supposed to respond to, and we haven't even been consulted about it. So, I don't know what I'm supposed to say.''

Again from Moss:

"Then we'll see what's next,'' Moss said, adding that the goal is to run in the Breeders' Cup at Churchill Downs on Nov. 5-6.

"The Breeders' Cup is something I honor. I believe that's where championships are decided.''

[Relwob Owner]

The game is racing and it's chock full of excuses. Sorry if you "know" the game more than someone else. She's a race horse. A special one, but a race horse nonetheless. The fear is she won't be peak. But she's peak enough to run March 13th? Huh? If Zenyatta enters THAT race (she won't), would RA scratch? That's my opinion and I'm sticking to it.


I feel like I "know" the game pretty well and I 100% agree with you. I just dont 100% buy that "being bred for speed" is leading to more fragile horses. I do see people being afraid to run horses because of breeding in the future and fear of the horses getting hurt. Funny thing is that by protecting these colts for breeding purposes and running them so much less, people have shot themselves in the foot because it is so much harder to follow horses regularly, as they are run so inrequently and retired early. Long term, the breeding money will decrease as a result of the overall decline and interest in the sport and hopefully, horses will start running with some sort of regularity again.....

[Kimsus]

They probably want to keep Arkansas Derby Day by itself on April 10 and not combine it with Rachel-Zenyatta day. Yeah, it would be sweet to see both of these races on the same day, but Cella can make more of his money back by separating out the big race days. If I were him, I'd say screw it and move the race back.

I think this would only elevate the Ark Derby to another level.

My question is, does Jackson really believe RA would be in top form with just an extra week of training? She'd probably need to have 2 races under her belt to be near top form. I think he just said that to make it look like he was trying to make it work. Don't worry, as long as both horses stay in good health, we WILL one day get to see them race against each other

I thought this also, though I would like to give him the benefit of the doubt this time, the only we way we find out for certain is if they grant him his wish, will he commit? What he does or doesn't do will speak volumes how he wants to campaign Rachel the rest of the yr/career.

[Kimsus]

"It's a shame they are not going to show up for that race,''

Moss said in a telephone interview with AP. "In the meantime, there's some plan here, to run in three races, to which we're supposed to respond to, and we haven't even been consulted about it. So, I don't know what I'm supposed to say.''



Sounds like Moss is pissed and I don't blame him one bit, how would anyone react to someone dictating to you when & where to run your champion Mare in a proposed 3 race series no less, when no one has even contacted you. Sounds like a disingenous plan to me.

[Relwob Owner]

Miesque, the phrasing, the sentence structure of these two gentlemen is quite interesting isn't it?

Men believe women caddy and snipping? This is a glorified p****** match.

We all may have to adjust our hopes of seeing the two on the track.

From Moss:

"It's a shame they are not going to show up for that race,''

Moss said in a telephone interview with AP. "In the meantime, there's some plan here, to run in three races, to which we're supposed to respond to, and we haven't even been consulted about it. So, I don't know what I'm supposed to say.''

Again from Moss:

"Then we'll see what's next,'' Moss said, adding that the goal is to run in the Breeders' Cup at Churchill Downs on Nov. 5-6.

"The Breeders' Cup is something I honor. I believe that's where championships are decided.''



I think "pissing match" is a perfect way to describe it......The more I hear, the more I feel like each owner is afraid to lose and in that sense, they are really, really putting their own egos and interests in front of the fans and the game.....

[Tom]

I gotta wonder how Rachael ever got where she is today without all the geniuses here managing her.:rolleyes:

[Relwob Owner]

I gotta wonder how Rachael ever got where she is today without all the geniuses here managing her.:rolleyes:


How would you manage her? Do you see differences between her management last year and this year? Does it frustrate you that the Horse of the Year may not run until May? When is the last time you saw two owners have such a high profile role in when and where their horses will run and who they will run against? Just because she was managed well last year doesnt mean that people cant speculate on how she is being managed this year....isnt that the point of a forum? This "genius" is curious for your take............

[cpitt84]

Anyone suspect that Jackson is avoiding Zenyatta?

I heard Jackson plans on racing RA in another race, before the Apple Blossom. If thats true, why not run in the 5 million dollar race?

[Kimsus]

I don't know if it will make a difference, but I just emailed kbaron@oaklawn.com the Marketing director at Oaklawn in an effort to have them move the race back a week. Atleast it's worth a try. Letters and public pressure have worked before, I'm going to take Jess Jackson at his word and if there are enough messages to Oaklawn Management, maybe they will listen.

[cpitt84]

I don't know if it will make a difference, but I just emailed kbaron@oaklawn.com the Marketing director at Oaklawn in an effort to have them move the race back a week. Atleast it's worth a try. Letters and public pressure have worked before, I'm going to take Jess Jackson at his word and if there are enough messages to Oaklawn Management, maybe they will listen.

I'll do the same!

[Relwob Owner]

I don't know if it will make a difference, but I just emailed kbaron@oaklawn.com the Marketing director at Oaklawn in an effort to have them move the race back a week. Atleast it's worth a try. Letters and public pressure have worked before, I'm going to take Jess Jackson at his word and if there are enough messages to Oaklawn Management, maybe they will listen.



Well done.....

[Kimsus]

I'll do the same!

Great! Maybe we should start a thread.

[cpitt84]

Great! Maybe we should start a thread.

Yeah, good idea! ;)

[Mineshaft]

I gotta wonder how Rachael ever got where she is today without all the geniuses here managing her.:rolleyes:





Exactly right.

We got 100 trainers on here yet 99 probably couldnt pass the trainers test

[Relwob Owner]

Exactly right.

We got 100 trainers on here yet 99 probably couldnt pass the trainers test


So, because people on the forum arent trainers, that should keep them from commenting on how horses are being managed? If that kind of attitude/criteria were applied to everything, I think it would be a pretty dull forum, wouldnt it?

As far as passing the trainers test, I think many of the posters on here are quite bright and knowledgable and the idea that 99 percent couldnt pass is way off.......lastly, I think Rachel and Zenyatta are unique in that I honestly believe that their placement is being dictated more by their owners that their trainers....just my thought

[Mineshaft]

So, because people on the forum arent trainers, that should keep them from commenting on how horses are being managed? If that kind of attitude/criteria were applied to everything, I think it would be a pretty dull forum, wouldnt it?

As far as passing the trainers test, I think many of the posters on here are quite bright and knowledgable and the idea that 99 percent couldnt pass is way off.......lastly, I think Rachel and Zenyatta are unique in that I honestly believe that their placement is being dictated more by their owners that their trainers....just my thought






Rachael is nowhere being close to run against Zenyatta and wont be come April. They will run against each other but it wont be in April. Probably wont be till the summer. So everyone stop whining about who is ducking who and what excuses are the going to use next. When the time is right you will see them run against each other. Until then i think this subject is pretty much done until they meet.

[tzipi]

Why did Jackson propose a 3 race series...he sure wants to dictate the terms if these 2 meet. Yep if they do meet I would hope both connections will be happy with the conditions of the race and just let the horses decide it on the track. I'm pretty sure as fans we all want to see it.

Well he did it last year too supposedly, but Moss nixed it. Guess Jackson is trying it again. Yeah I agree, I hope the conditions come up great for both. :ThmbUp:

[tzipi]

Anyone suspect that Jackson is avoiding Zenyatta?

I heard Jackson plans on racing RA in another race, before the Apple Blossom. If thats true, why not run in the 5 million dollar race?

Would'nt say ducking. She has just come off a long winter layoff. They don't want to blast her out of the gate right off the bat against top horses. Think Jackson and Asmussen are trying to get some races into her first. Just like RA did last year. No different. We got all year folks. I, the horses connections and you know April is not the last month of the year ;)

[Mineshaft]

I would be shocked if they meet at Saratoga. No way Zenyatta is going to be on a plane for 6 hours. It will have to be in the BC because of the centralized location. I can't think of any other venue that would be as logical as that. Maybe Oaks day. Oaklwan was attractive because they both have won there.





Zen traveled to Churchill last year only to be scratched. So they ship to Churchill which is almost across country but your saying they wont ship to New York? Trust me for 5 mill they are shipping anywhere.

[Tom]

How would you manage her? Do you see differences between her management last year and this year?

I wouldn't. She has a trainer who guided her to HOY and historical victories.
I suspect he knows a bit more about her than anyone on this board does.

No - she has not even run yet. The current barn did not start out last year with her.

This is a business, not a sport, not a game.
The people with the money invested make the calls.

Comments like "...she is just a racehorse..." all ridiculous.

[Relwob Owner]

Rachael is nowhere being close to run against Zenyatta and wont be come April. They will run against each other but it wont be in April. Probably wont be till the summer. So everyone stop whining about who is ducking who and what excuses are the going to use next. When the time is right you will see them run against each other. Until then i think this subject is pretty much done until they meet.


You get on others for commenting on the management of Rachel and Zenyatta and when they will meet and then you say that RA is "nowhere being close to run against Zenyatta and wont be come April".............first, arent you doing the same kind of speculating that you are chiding others for doing and do you have some sort of inside info/evidence that what you are saying is true in terms of RA not being ready or is that just speculation?


.

[OntheRail]

You know I would not take a cheap motor that I rebuilt right to the track and gun it around. Nope you break it in slowly... make sure all the gears mesh. Run it a bit to shake it out... then drain the oil look for shavings in it... maybe drop the pan and inspect the bearing. Once all is working as it should and you know it is then you GO FOR IT. Now Rachel is not some cheap motor and I do not fault JJ from wanting to make sure she is in top running condition and ready to fire... nope not one bit do I fault him or for an instant think he's dodging Zen either.

It'll happen... and I think more then once in Nov. ;)

[Relwob Owner]

I wouldn't. She has a trainer who guided her to HOY and historical victories.
I suspect he knows a bit more about her than anyone on this board does.

No - she has not even run yet. The current barn did not start out last year with her.

This is a business, not a sport, not a game.
The people with the money invested make the calls.

Comments like "...she is just a racehorse..." all ridiculous.



You say "it is a business", "not a sport", "not a game".....bitter much? With attitudes like that, it is no wonder fans have lost so much interest the last 10-15 years.......plus, your comment is actually the opposite of how guys like Jess Jackson think.....it is a sport and a game to them and I think that is when egos tend to get in the way....he made his money in the wine business and is involved in racing for the sport and because it is a game to him and keeps him interested

[Mineshaft]

You get on others for commenting on the management of Rachel and Zenyatta and when they will meet and then you say that RA is "nowhere being close to run against Zenyatta and wont be come April".............first, arent you doing the same kind of speculating that you are chiding others for doing and do you have some sort of inside info/evidence that what you are saying is true in terms of RA not being ready or is that just speculation?


.




No im not doing the same kind of speculating and no i have no evidence of her not being ready.

[Mineshaft]

You know I would not take a cheap motor that I rebuilt right to the track and gun it around. Nope you break it in slowly... make sure all the gears mesh. Run it a bit to shake it out... then drain the oil look for shavings in it... maybe drop the pan and inspect the bearing. Once all is working as it should and you know it is then you GO FOR IT. Now Rachel is not some cheap motor and I do not fault JJ from wanting to make sure she is in top running condition and ready to fire... nope not one bit do I fault him or for an instant think he's dodging Zen either.

It'll happen... and I think more then once in Nov. ;)






u da man. finally someone agrees with me.

[BluegrassProf]

You get on others for commenting on the management of Rachel and Zenyatta and when they will meet and then you say that RA is "nowhere being close to run against Zenyatta and wont be come April".............first, arent you doing the same kind of speculating that you are chiding others for doing and do you have some sort of inside info/evidence that what you are saying is true in terms of RA not being ready or is that just speculation?


.

Speculation? Inside information?

That's not so much speculation as it is the information directly from the trainer's mouth.

You know....the guy that trains. Trains horses. Wins occasionally.

:faint:

Re: the announcement - I'm fairly sure we were all expecting this. Really no good reason for the absurd comments re: ducking and entitlement, I must say. Cheapens the discussion.

More importantly, for those concerned, I suggest that all continue show a little damned support for the well-being of the animal (even the business and automotive models/analogies recognize the complexity and fragility of the machine). This regimen is hardly unorthodox, as many have pointed out.


On that note: I'm always surprised with the consistent villification of Jess Jackson. The guy's been gracious as all get-out - this latest announcement is no exception - yet he's STILL branded a manipulative egotist. Perhaps we should look around at the other faces in the crowd before we start hurling insults...

If you'll excuse me, I'm off to email Oaklawn. You know, a'cause they care! :)

[Mineshaft]

You say "it is a business", "not a sport", "not a game".....bitter much? With attitudes like that, it is no wonder fans have lost so much interest the last 10-15 years.......plus, your comment is actually the opposite of how guys like Jess Jackson think.....it is a sport and a game to them and I think that is when egos tend to get in the way....he made his money in the wine business and is involved in racing for the sport and because it is a game to him and keeps him interested





Tell you what when you get a filly worth around 30 mill you just dont run her wherever there is a nice purse. You dont run just because the fans want to see it happen. You run when your horse is ready to compete at a high level. And everyone knows she is NOT at that level. Ever heard the phrase "You have to crawl before you can walk". Well thats whats happening to Rachael. You slowly have to get her stamina up and her fitness where it needs to be. Then you have to have a couple of races to get her race fit. Then you start looking for a race against Zenyatta.

[Mineshaft]

Speculation? Inside information?

That's not so much speculation as it is the information directly from the trainer's mouth.

You know....the guy that trains. Trains horses. Wins occasionally.

:faint:

Re: the announcement - I'm fairly sure we were all expecting this. Really no good reason for the absurd comments re: ducking and entitlement, I must say. Cheapens the discussion.

More importantly, for those concerned, I suggest that all continue show a little damned support for the well-being of the animal (even the business and automotive models/analogies recognize the complexity and fragility of the machine). This regimen is hardly unorthodox, as many have pointed out.


On that note: I'm always surprised with the consistent villification of Jess Jackson. The guy's been gracious as all get-out - this latest annnouncement is no exception - yet he's STILL branded a manipulative egotist. Perhaps we should look around at the other faces in the crowd before we start hurling insults...

If you'll excuse me, I'm off to email Oaklawn. You know, a'cause they care! :)





Great post another person that gets it

[Cratos]

Give me a break! Quality Road ran 6 times last year (Rachel ran 8) and stayed in training until November 7th and came back running at Gulfstream on February 6th in track record time. Also Quality Road ran two 1 ¼ races late in the racing season last year.

Rachel the 2009 HOY and well-rested since August 12th of last year will not be ready to meet Zenyatta on April 3rd?????????????????????

[Mineshaft]

Give me a break! Quality Road ran 6 times last year (Rachel ran 8) and stayed in training until November 7th and came back running at Gulfstream on February 6th in track record time. Also Quality Road ran two 1 ¼ races late in the racing season last year.

Rachel the 2009 HOY and well-rested since August 12th of last year will not be ready to meet Zenyatta on April 3rd?????????????????????




Quality Road never came out of training. he shipped to New York where he had some official works and then started at Palm Meadows working. which was in december. Rachael didnt have her first work till the end of January. Big difference.

[OntheRail]

Tell you what when you get a filly worth around 30 mill you just dont run her wherever there is a nice purse. You dont run just because the fans want to see it happen. You run when your horse is ready to compete at a high level. And everyone knows she is NOT at that level. Ever heard the phrase "You have to crawl before you can walk". Well thats whats happening to Rachael. You slowly have to get her stamina up and her fitness where it needs to be. Then you have to have a couple of races to get her race fit. Then you start looking for a race against Zenyatta.

Yes... Yes I Agree. Walk before you run... EXACTLY.

[toussaud]

Give me a break! Quality Road ran 6 times last year (Rachel ran 8) and stayed in training until November 7th and came back running at Gulfstream on February 6th in track record time. Also Quality Road ran two 1 ¼ races late in the racing season last year.

Rachel the 2009 HOY and well-rested since August 12th of last year will not be ready to meet Zenyatta on April 3rd?????????????????????
where are you getting august 12th from?

Rachael ran in the woodward on the first day of college football season. i remember becuase i missed it to go the arkansas game making the date I believe September 5th.


i am seriously..stunned at some of this behiavor by grown men and women.

there is not one freaking shread of evidence that he is ducking zenyatta, and hell if he was so what?

this is the same type of fan based speculation and ego driven nonsensical chatter that got ruffian and foolish pleasure in a match race.

Everyone knew it was going to be too soon when z unretired, now it's announced and the man is dogging zenyatta, give me a freaking break.

youa re comparing a mare that really, for all intents and purposes, never went out of training, to one that hasn't recorded a real work since September. Grown men and women, that are lifelong fans of horse racing, are being reduced to mindless drivel

[Relwob Owner]

Tell you what when you get a filly worth around 30 mill you just dont run her wherever there is a nice purse. You dont run just because the fans want to see it happen. You run when your horse is ready to compete at a high level. And everyone knows she is NOT at that level. Ever heard the phrase "You have to crawl before you can walk". Well thats whats happening to Rachael. You slowly have to get her stamina up and her fitness where it needs to be. Then you have to have a couple of races to get her race fit. Then you start looking for a race against Zenyatta.


How does "everyone" know she isnt at that level? Because Asmussen says so? You dont think Jackson has any influence/bearing on what Asmussen says? I have headr the phrase "you have to crawl before you walk" but that applies to babies, not the Horse of The Year,,,,are you really telling me that it will take her 4-6 months to get ready to run against Zenyatta?

[Mineshaft]

where are you getting august 12th from?

Rachael ran in the woodward on the first day of college football season. i remember becuase i missed it to go the arkansas game making the date I believe September 5th.


i am seriously..stunned at some of this behiavor by grown men and women.

there is not one freaking shread of evidence that he is ducking zenyatta, and hell if he was so what?

this is the same type of fan based speculation and ego driven nonsensical chatter that got ruffian and foolish pleasure in a match race.

Everyone knew it was going to be too soon when z unretired, now it's announced and the man is dogging zenyatta, give me a freaking break.

youa re comparing a mare that really, for all intents and purposes, never went out of training, to one that hasn't recorded a real work since September. Grown men and women, that are lifelong fans of horse racing, are being reduced to mindless drivel




U da man..

[Mineshaft]

How does "everyone" know she isnt at that level? Because Asmussen says so? You dont think Jackson has any influence/bearing on what Asmussen says? I have headr the phrase "you have to crawl before you walk" but that applies to babies, not the Horse of The Year,,,,are you really telling me that it will take her 4-6 months to get ready to run against Zenyatta?







YES..............................

[Mineshaft]

How does "everyone" know she isnt at that level? Because Asmussen says so? You dont think Jackson has any influence/bearing on what Asmussen says? I have headr the phrase "you have to crawl before you walk" but that applies to babies, not the Horse of The Year,,,,are you really telling me that it will take her 4-6 months to get ready to run against Zenyatta?







stop it your making your self look stupid...

[Relwob Owner]

Speculation? Inside information?

That's not so much speculation as it is the information directly from the trainer's mouth.

You know....the guy that trains. Trains horses. Wins occasionally.

:faint:

Re: the announcement - I'm fairly sure we were all expecting this. Really no good reason for the absurd comments re: ducking and entitlement, I must say. Cheapens the discussion.

More importantly, for those concerned, I suggest that all continue show a little damned support for the well-being of the animal (even the business and automotive models/analogies recognize the complexity and fragility of the machine). This regimen is hardly unorthodox, as many have pointed out.


On that note: I'm always surprised with the consistent villification of Jess Jackson. The guy's been gracious as all get-out - this latest announcement is no exception - yet he's STILL branded a manipulative egotist. Perhaps we should look around at the other faces in the crowd before we start hurling insults...

If you'll excuse me, I'm off to email Oaklawn. You know, a'cause they care! :)



And if you think Jackson has no influence on what Assmussen says, I think you are severely mistaken....if it really does take Rachel 8-12 months between starts to get to the point where she is ready, I think that is a sad state of affairs in terms of the top horses these days and now wonder people dont stay interested as much as they used to....

[Kimsus]

U da man..

Your confidence in Rachel Alexandra is inspiring...

[Relwob Owner]

stop it your making your self look stupid...


Well, the person that spells "you're" the way you did and uses "yourself" as two words is probably the one who isnt all there in the intelligence department ...hmmm-I am stupid because I disagree with you and think that for the most part, they are treating Rachel with kit gloves? OK-I can deal with that-it is just my opinion, thats all and if I am off, it may make me ignorant, not stupid.

The frustration level you show with people who offer their opinions on here and your general confrontational, arrogant attitude definitely shows that you have some anger stuff going and that is too bad for you....I would rather be stupid than angry.....good luck to ya man

[Kimsus]

Re: the announcement - I'm fairly sure we were all expecting this. Really no good reason for the absurd comments re: ducking and entitlement, I must say. Cheapens the discussion.



Interesting what would be a better word(s) for you, how about 'avoidence' or 'picking spots'...maybe asking for a 7lbs weight allowance for the HOY should they meet instead of entitlement..yeah I hear you telling it like it is cheapens this discussion.

[tzipi]

Interesting what would be a better word(s) for you, how about 'avoidence' or 'picking spots'...maybe asking for a 7lbs weight allowance for the HOY should they meet instead of entitlement..yeah I hear you telling it like it is cheapens this discussion.

Kimsus my man you better be here when RA beats Zen :lol: . I will be here it Zen wins even though I'll be a bit sad. But I like Zenny so it wont hurt much :) .

[Dahoss9698]

Well, the person that spells "you're" the way you did and uses "yourself" as two words is probably the one who isnt all there in the intelligence department ...hmmm-I am stupid because I disagree with you and think that for the most part, they are treating Rachel with kit gloves? OK-I can deal with that-it is just my opinion, thats all and if I am off, it may make me ignorant, not stupid.

The frustration level you show with people who offer their opinions on here and your general confrontational, arrogant attitude definitely shows that you have some anger stuff going and that is too bad for you....I would rather be stupid than angry.....good luck to ya man

The phrase is "kid gloves", not "kit gloves".

Yes, they are being cautious, probably overly cautious with Rachel right now. Not to oversimplify things, but it would appear as though Asmussen/Jackson want their filly to be in very good condition to meet up with Zenyatta. I'm sure Shireffs and Moss feel the same way.

They don't feel she will be there by Apple Blossom day. I'm not sure what is so confusing about this. When horses get to the level Rachel and Zenyatta are at, they are treated with kid gloves. This is certainly nothing new.

The thing I think is being overlooked here is IMO it's not about the money for Jess Jackson. If it was, she'd be in the race. They are trying to do what is best for her and I find it hard to disagree with them because they have proven they know how to handle a horse like this. You don't win 3 straight HOY's by luck.

[Kimsus]

Kimsus my man you better be here when RA beats Zen :lol: . I will be here it Zen wins even though I'll be a bit sad. But I like Zenny so it wont hurt much :) .

Better write that email to Oaklawn if you believe she will, that's what Jess has said and we know he is a man of his word, he asked for one more week to get Rachel ready. Apparently that's what's keeping the 2 from racing each other in the Apple Blossom. Either he's lying or he will be there if they move it. I'm here till they race, if they race.

[tzipi]

Better write that email to Oaklawn if you believe she will, that's what Jess has said and we know he is a man of his word, he asked for one more week to get Rachel ready. Apparently that's what's keeping the 2 from racing each other in the Apple Blossom. Either the's lying or he will be there if they move it. I'm here till they race, if they race.

No I'm just kidding :) . I know you'll be here. Yeah I did send e-mail. If they think that extra week, which can be big with horses is enough and she's healthy, I'm all for it :ThmbUp: Would love to see them get in the gate together.

[Investorater]

I'm just looking forward to watching Zenyatta or Rachel Alexandra race again, and not necessarily against one another....

[statik27]

Last year supposedly Jackson proposed a 3 race series to Moss. He wanted one race on dirt, one on synthetic, and one on turf. But Moss said no. So I guess he's trying it again now.


This sounds like an internet rumor to me. JJ would be out of his skull to propose any race on any surface other then dirt. And if he was so keen last year to meet Zenyatta on synthetic, there was a little race that ran in Nov. for 5 million dollars on plastic.

As for RA not going in the Apple Blossom, I think the reasons are 2 fold. One, she's not going to be ready and the race comes to early in her form cycle to make sense. Two, Steve A isn't just a trainer, he's a strategist as well and one of the best, the further into her 6yo campaign his filly meets Zenyatta the better. Its not unfair, its not dishonorable, its just good strategy.

[Relwob Owner]

The phrase is "kid gloves", not "kit gloves".

Yes, they are being cautious, probably overly cautious with Rachel right now. Not to oversimplify things, but it would appear as though Asmussen/Jackson want their filly to be in very good condition to meet up with Zenyatta. I'm sure Shireffs and Moss feel the same way.

They don't feel she will be there by Apple Blossom day. I'm not sure what is so confusing about this. When horses get to the level Rachel and Zenyatta are at, they are treated with kid gloves. This is certainly nothing new.

The thing I think is being overlooked here is IMO it's not about the money for Jess Jackson. If it was, she'd be in the race. They are trying to do what is best for her and I find it hard to disagree with them because they have proven they know how to handle a horse like this. You don't win 3 straight HOY's by luck.


Sorry about the "kid gloves" typo....it was late. You make good points and on the whole I agree with you. My back and forth with another poster was mainly about the idea that the poster gets so wound up about people speculating and me wondering if that isnt the point of a forum.....

I do think, however, that Jackson has shown a track record of letting his personal thoughts and emotions get involved in precedings and that could conceivably affect how often Rachel will run. This may happened once with RA and the Breeders Cup, as I believe he based his decision on whether to run her there largely on his tough experience with Curlin the year before. Do I think it is the wrong decision or do I think that I somehow know better than him? Not even close....but I do think that things he, Asmussen and everyone else in racing do can be analyzed on the forum by people who of course realize they dont know better, but as fans, do have the right to comment.....

[startngate]

I think JJ is ducking a bit, even though he does have a minor point about the timing not being right .... it's just that the timing not being right is his own damn fault.

Forget that Zenyatta came out of retirement unexpectedly, I just don't understand how the Apple Blossom was not on RA's schedule from the beginning. It's the first major F&M stake of the year, and should have been a logical starting point for her given Oaklawn's proximity to where she is in training and the fact that she loves the surface.

Personally, I'm so tired of JJ grandstanding and whining to the world that I really hope no one puts together a 'series'. I hope the tracks put their (collective) feet down and don't reschedule anything or boost any purses for him. Let him have to pick RA's spots and run for whatever purses are available. Stop the grandstanding and just run.

I also hope Zenyatta just happens to show up in every one of RA's races, and whips her more than once.

[Relwob Owner]

I think JJ is ducking a bit, even though he does have a minor point about the timing not being right .... it's just that the timing not being right is his own damn fault.

Forget that Zenyatta came out of retirement unexpectedly, I just don't understand how the Apple Blossom was not on RA's schedule from the beginning. It's the first major F&M stake of the year, and should have been a logical starting point for her given Oaklawn's proximity to where she is in training and the fact that she loves the surface.

Personally, I'm so tired of JJ grandstanding and whining to the world that I really hope no one puts together a 'series'. I hope the tracks put their (collective) feet down and don't reschedule anything or boost any purses for him. Let him have to pick RA's spots and run for whatever purses are available. Stop the grandstanding and just run.

I also hope Zenyatta just happens to show up in every one of RA's races, and whips her more than once.


I never used to understand people's issues with JJ but recently, I thin k I am starting to come around....I am with you in terms of wondering about RA really not being ready since it does seem that a race with the timing of the Apple Blossom made sense from the get go. I am definitely an RA supporter and I feel like she won HOY because they had such a challnging schedule and faced all comers.....it does seem as if that attitude may have changed a bit so far this year in terms of their plan. I guess with theor track record, though, it is hard to question them and how the rest of the year shakes out will tell the story

[Cratos]

where are you getting august 12th from?

Rachael ran in the woodward on the first day of college football season. i remember becuase i missed it to go the arkansas game making the date I believe September 5th.


i am seriously..stunned at some of this behiavor by grown men and women.

there is not one freaking shread of evidence that he is ducking zenyatta, and hell if he was so what?

this is the same type of fan based speculation and ego driven nonsensical chatter that got ruffian and foolish pleasure in a match race.

Everyone knew it was going to be too soon when z unretired, now it's announced and the man is dogging zenyatta, give me a freaking break.

youa re comparing a mare that really, for all intents and purposes, never went out of training, to one that hasn't recorded a real work since September. Grown men and women, that are lifelong fans of horse racing, are being reduced to mindless drivel

You are correct; Rachel last race was in the Woodward at Saratoga on September 5th, but it doesn't change my mind about her not being ready to run on April 3rd.

[Kimsus]

I think JJ is ducking a bit, even though he does have a minor point about the timing not being right .... it's just that the timing not being right is his own damn fault.

Forget that Zenyatta came out of retirement unexpectedly, I just don't understand how the Apple Blossom was not on RA's schedule from the beginning. It's the first major F&M stake of the year, and should have been a logical starting point for her given Oaklawn's proximity to where she is in training and the fact that she loves the surface.

Personally, I'm so tired of JJ grandstanding and whining to the world that I really hope no one puts together a 'series'. I hope the tracks put their (collective) feet down and don't reschedule anything or boost any purses for him. Let him have to pick RA's spots and run for whatever purses are available. Stop the grandstanding and just run.

I also hope Zenyatta just happens to show up in every one of RA's races, and whips her more than once.

His actions are quizzable, quite frankly I find him to be very disingenous. He says he proposes a 3 race series without consulting Jerry Moss, he says he asks for a 1 week pushback of the Apple Blossom seemingly knowingly that Oaklawn will not push back the race, he picks the Woodward over the Travers for supposed historical factors when we know well it was the easier field, he doesn't race Rachel after Sept 5 citing she had a long season but we all know it's because he thinks has HOY sewn up so he ducks the rest of the year's competition, regardless if you believe these are all perfectly logical events, they do add up, the pile of excuses are mounting.

[Cratos]

This sounds like an internet rumor to me. JJ would be out of his skull to propose any race on any surface other then dirt. And if he was so keen last year to meet Zenyatta on synthetic, there was a little race that ran in Nov. for 5 million dollars on plastic.

As for RA not going in the Apple Blossom, I think the reasons are 2 fold. One, she's not going to be ready and the race comes to early in her form cycle to make sense. Two, Steve A isn't just a trainer, he's a strategist as well and one of the best, the further into her 6yo campaign his filly meets Zenyatta the better. Its not unfair, its not dishonorable, its just good strategy.

Then he will wait a long time if he is to wear down Zenyatta by waiting. You said that Asmussen is a strategist and not a trainer. The same could be said of John Shirreffs, the trainer of Zenyatta.

Shirreffs have run Zenyatta only 14 times in her life and she is a 6yo. She ran only once as a 3yo and a “whopping” 5 times last year as a 5yo. He hasn’t shipped her outside of California and raced her except one time when she was shipped to Oaklawn Park; she was shipped to Churchill Downs once, but didn’t race.

Zenyatta might be the best 1 ¼ mile horse (male or female) in training as of now and she is a “young” 6yo.

[sally]

Personally, I'm so tired of JJ grandstanding and whining to the world that I really hope no one puts together a 'series'. I hope the tracks put their (collective) feet down and don't reschedule anything or boost any purses for him. Let him have to pick RA's spots and run for whatever purses are available. Stop the grandstanding and just run.

I also hope Zenyatta just happens to show up in every one of RA's races, and whips her more than once.


Totally agree. Sometimes the owners really get in the way of the competition...

[ghostyapper]

A lot of things change from year to year but one thing that doesn't is the blind defense of rachel and her connections.

The big macho talk last year was that they should start her off in the Donn. Now the April 3rd Apple Blossom is too early because she would be coming off a 6 month layoff.

And who's fault was the layoff? She was perfectly healthy. Every single rachel fan thought she would begin the year early but now they are making lame excuses.

No doubt the army will be here at the end of the year with all the valid excuses on why she skipped the 2010 breeders cup classic, which there is no doubt she will.

[tzipi]

He picks the Woodward over the Travers for supposed historical factors when we know well it was the easier field, he doesn't race Rachel after Sept 5 citing she had a long season but we all know it's because he thinks has HOY sewn up.

Kimsus I really don't think putting a 3yo filly in the Woodward against older males is ever ever an easy spot. How many fillys do it? How many run in it in the next 20 years? Some of those horses were the ones running against Zen in the BC Classic.
Plus, I think think we all didn't know who was going to win HOY until they said the name. Zenny was undefeated and was running in the BC and they knew she had a good chance of winning out there. I don't think Jackson knew it was a lock like it was with Curlin.

I think if RA was a 5yo mare, I could maybe agree with alot of the anti-posts. BUT RA was a young 3yo filly running in the Oaks,Preakness(boys),CCO,Woodward(older males),and Haskell(boys) among other races. Thats is pretty darn agressive and a rough campaign no matter how you look at it. Not sure the reasoning for knocking her campaign?? You can look at Zens campaign and say worse. She ran against the same overmatched girls race after race and stayed undefeated. Why not knock that when there was SO MANY other races out there and OTHER places to run in.
I say let this year do the talking. We might be in for a great one :)

[ghostyapper]

His actions are quizzable, quite frankly I find him to be very disingenous. He says he proposes a 3 race series without consulting Jerry Moss, he says he asks for a 1 week pushback of the Apple Blossom seemingly knowingly that Oaklawn will not push back the race, he picks the Woodward over the Travers for supposed historical factors when we know well it was the easier field, he doesn't race Rachel after Sept 5 citing she had a long season but we all know it's because he thinks has HOY sewn up so he ducks the rest of the year's competition, regardless if you believe these are all perfectly logical events, they do add up, the pile of excuses are mounting.

Absolutely. Add to the fact that he said he retired her last season because she needed a rest but then said she would race if Zenyatta came east for the beldame in october. Well did she need a rest or not?

Of course he knew it would make no sense for zenyatta to ship east for a prep race on dirt when she was prepping for the bc. What he's doing is clearly ducking while trying to save face.

Unfortunately the rachel groupies refuse to see through this obvious ploy and blindly believe whatever he says

[Kimsus]

I truly hope Jess Jackson is sincere in saying if they push back the Apple Blossom this would fit their timetable of having a prep and 4 weeks to prepare for a race with Zenyatta, I thing I do know if Zenyatta wasn't entered and Rachel was healthy you can bet she would have been entered in the Apple Blossom off of a 3 week break from her prep.

To me both horses are coming into this race off a single prep, it is a very fair scenario in addition to both horses having raced at OP. These are not young 3 yr olds prepping for the derby, this is the best case scenario, now we just have to wait and see if Oaklawn will accomodate Jackson, hopefully he will be a man of his word.

[Kimsus]

Kimsus I really don't think putting a 3yo filly in the Woodward against older males is ever ever an easy spot. How many fillys do it? How many run in it in the next 20 years? Some of those horses were the ones running against Zen in the BC Classic.


Tzipi, Who would you rather face if you wanted to win? Bullsbay/Macho Again or Summer Bird/Quality Road?

[tzipi]

Absolutely. Add to the fact that he said he retired her last season because she needed a rest but then said she would race if Zenyatta came east for the beldame in october. Well did she need a rest or not?

Of course he knew it would make no sense for zenyatta to ship east for a prep race on dirt when she was prepping for the bc. What he's doing is clearly ducking while trying to save face.

Unfortunately the rachel groupies refuse to see through this obvious ploy and blindly believe whatever he says


I don't think JJ ever retired RA?

Well you have to remember if you have to ship out for a race and do all the work, it's alot on a horse. But if you get to stay home and rest and then workout it's alot easier. If Zenyatta came to NY RA would'nt have to travel. It's like why Zenny was so rested and peak all year. There was no travelling, she just runs in one place. It's easier on the horse.

[ghostyapper]

I don't think JJ ever retired RA?

Well you have to remember if you have to ship out for a race and do all the work, it's alot on a horse. But if you get to stay home and rest and then workout it's alot easier. If Zenyatta came to NY RA would'nt have to travel. It's like why Zenny was so rested and peak all year. There was no travelling, she just runs in one place. It's easier on the horse.

RA could have stayed home and run in the JCGC but the excuse was she needed a rest.

But of course she didn't need a rest to throw out the empty possibility of facing zenyatta if she came east when her targeted race was less than a month later on the west coast.

[tzipi]

Tzipi, Who would you rather face if you wanted to win? Bullsbay/Macho Again or Summer Bird/Quality Road?

Well she whipped Summer Bird badly. I don't know why people make excuses that she didn't. NO ONE was talking about or was scared of Quality Road until this past race.
You could dissect Zens BC field too. She beat a turf horse who would've ran in the BC Turf Classic if BC was at a dirt track. The second favorite was a horse who was not 100% in the feet. The 3rd favorite was Summer Bird who RA whipped.
I mean Kimsus we can dissect every horses races. But I say heck with last year because we have a whole one with all the top races in front of us. :ThmbUp:

[tzipi]

RA could have stayed home and run in the JCGC but the excuse was she needed a rest.

Ghosty you can go tell any trainer out there that RA ducked and ran in easy spots and they'll look at you weird. She was 3yo and a filly. Plus I say lets watch them this year. We got a whole year ahead of us. :ThmbUp: It's not like one retired.

[Kimsus]

Well she whipped Summer Bird badly. I don't know why people make excuses that she didn't. NO ONE was talking about or was scared of Quality Road until this past race.
You could dissect Zens BC field too. She beat a turf horse who would've ran in the BC Turf Classic if BC was at a dirt track. The second favorite was a horse who was 100% in his feet. The 3rd favorite was Summer Bird who RA whipped.
I mean Kimsus we can dissect every horses races. But I say heck with last year because we have a whole one with all the top races in fron of us. :ThmbUp:

You answered but you didn't answer the question...

[Dahoss9698]

His actions are quizzable, quite frankly I find him to be very disingenous. He says he proposes a 3 race series without consulting Jerry Moss, he says he asks for a 1 week pushback of the Apple Blossom seemingly knowingly that Oaklawn will not push back the race, he picks the Woodward over the Travers for supposed historical factors when we know well it was the easier field, he doesn't race Rachel after Sept 5 citing she had a long season but we all know it's because he thinks has HOY sewn up so he ducks the rest of the year's competition, regardless if you believe these are all perfectly logical events, they do add up, the pile of excuses are mounting.

After reading some of this drivel, it's clear there is a pile building up. Flush it down.

Rachel won HOY. Get over it. The Apple Blossom is a blip on the radar. Until Cella decided he wanted publicity and proposed a race he probably knew was never going to happen, no one was worried about Rachel making the race. Now all of the sudden the Apple Blossom has become more important than it normally is? Give me a break.

[tzipi]

You answered but you didn't answer the question...

Yeah probably Summer Bird and Quality Road would be harder. But RA whipper Summer Bird. Quality Road wasn't the greatest and seems like a one track horse as of now. We all scrapped that horse until his last race. But yeah I'd say SB and QR race would be a bit harder but if you think running a 3yo filly against older males is an easy spot someplaces it's not. You know how many top 3yo filies lost to all kinds of males over the years. Not easy. Males are faster and stronger.

[OntheRail]

A lot of things change from year to year but one thing that doesn't is the blind defense of rachel and her connections.

The big macho talk last year was that they should start her off in the Donn. Now the April 3rd Apple Blossom is too early because she would be coming off a 6 month layoff.

And who's fault was the layoff? She was perfectly healthy. Every single rachel fan thought she would begin the year early but now they are making lame excuses.

No doubt the army will be here at the end of the year with all the valid excuses on why she skipped the 2010 breeders cup classic, which there is no doubt she will.

Nor the unabashed detractors of same :rolleyes:.

I don't remember JJ saying squat about the Donn or even mentioning starting her in the AB. I think even when he was on the stand at HOTY he say the AB was doubtful as a start for her or shortly after. It not like he said she's running and the pulled out cause Zen entered. OP tried to make something that was never in the plans for RA. The getting in the gate with Zen will at some point no doubt there at all... just not at OP.

But the Beat (down) goes on about Rachel and Jackson.


Those who do... do. Those who do not... bitch... piss and moan... about those that do but not their way. :lol:
It's easy to bag on ones action when you have no horse in the race and nothing to lose but your own opinion.

And another thing the three races... that Moss claims he knew nothing about. I don't buy it. I'd guess Jess did not map out what races but said what do you say three race series for the girls one dirt.. one plastic.. one turf. As for the purposed run over synthetic KEENLAND could of been the track he'd thought of for that. ;)

[Dahoss9698]

RA could have stayed home and run in the JCGC but the excuse was she needed a rest.

But of course she didn't need a rest to throw out the empty possibility of facing zenyatta if she came east when her targeted race was less than a month later on the west coast.

I love the excuse part. She was never under consideration for the Beldame after the Woodward. I know it's easier to just make stuff up, but it didn't happen.

[tzipi]

And who's fault was the layoff? She was perfectly healthy. Every single rachel fan thought she would begin the year early but now they are making lame excuses.

No doubt the army will be here at the end of the year with all the valid excuses on why she skipped the 2010 breeders cup classic, which there is no doubt she will.

What?? She went on a winter layoff after a hard 3yo campaign. "Who fault was it"? What's wrong with running in March? It's the beginning of the year! Zenyatta didn't run until May last year.

Ok now you know where she'll be running in Oct/Nov? You should call the Jacksons and tell them. Say you will not enter her in the BC this year on dirt.

[OntheRail]

Tzipi, Who would you rather face if you wanted to win? Bullsbay/Macho Again or Summer Bird/Quality Road?
And if she beat them then the bitch would of been "She's Ducking Older Males" as she already beat the 3yr. olds.
I'd lay money on it.

[OntheRail]

After reading some of this drivel, it's clear there is a pile building up. Flush it down.

Rachel won HOY. Get over it. The Apple Blossom is a blip on the radar. Until Cella decided he wanted publicity and proposed a race he probably knew was never going to happen, no one was worried about Rachel making the race. Now all of the sudden the Apple Blossom has become more important than it normally is? Give me a break.
;) :ThmbUp:

[Kimsus]

And if she beat them then the bitch would of been "She's Ducking Older Males" as she already beat the 3yr. olds.
I'd lay money on it.

I never bought into this supposed historical significance of beating older males, not when the horses consist of Pass The Point and D'tara...or the most accomplished horse in the field was the average Macho Again, see the media were the one's that swooned all over this and somehow the public just latched on to it. The way some people are talking about it, you would think the Travers was a B race located in Los Almitos and The Woodward was the greatest race ever assembled.

[FenceBored]

I never bought into this supposed historical significance of beating older males, not when the horses consist of Pass The Point and D'tara...or the most accomplished horse in the field was the average Macho Again, see the media were the one's that swooned all over this and somehow the public just latched on to it. The way some people are talking about it, you would think the Travers was a B race located in Los Almitos and The Woodward was the greatest race ever assembled.

"I'm wearin' my green tinfoil hat, tinfoil hat, tinfoil hat, for tinfoil is the foil I love. "

ztA0AJxHqQ8


Yeuh, yeuh, yeuh.

[Kimsus]

"I'm wearin' my green tinfoil hat, tinfoil hat, tinfoil hat, for tinfoil is the foil I love. "

ztA0AJxHqQ8


Yeuh, yeuh, yeuh.

Further evidence that a match up between these 2 is long overdue, the sooner the better.

[tzipi]

I never bought into this supposed historical significance of beating older males, not when the horses consist of Pass The Point and D'tara...or the most accomplished horse in the field was the average Macho Again, see the media were the one's that swooned all over this and somehow the public just latched on to it. The way some people are talking about it, you would think the Travers was a B race located in Los Almitos and The Woodward was the greatest race ever assembled.

I think most people are talking about the fast fractions and still holding on. No one said it was the best field of all time.
I just don't get the knock on the Travers. Let's take the "great" BC Classic:

EINSTEIN: One Grade 1 victory on synth.
AWESOME GEM: Never won a Grade 1
GIROLAMO: Never won a Grade 1
REGAL RANSOM: Never won Grade 1
RICHARDS KID: One Grade 1 victory at 25-1.
TWICE OVER: Pure Turf horse with one Grade 1 victory
COLONEL JOHN: Hadn't won a Grade 1 or dirt race in over 14 months.
GIO PONTI: A pure turf horse who would've ran in Turf Class if at dirt track.
MTB: One Grade 1 victory back in the Derby
QUALITY ROAD: Not a synthetic horse. One G1 win back in March at his GP.
RIP VAN WINKLE: Pure turf horse who had foot problems.
SUMMER BIRD: Dirt horse(RA beat)

CHOCOLATE CANDY AND BULLSBAY:Were entered but as discussed many times on threads as nothing great.

My point is you can pull apart any field. The BC field was nothing great and not even close to the top races they had in the past, but to hear some people you'd think Silver Charm,Skip Away,Cigar,Slew,Ghostzapper etc were there.

Was the Travers the best field ever or one of the the tops? No but it was a great performance from start to finish IMO. I think these two will do wonders this year and face eachother and we are all getting too worked up so early in the year like it's already OCT. It's going to be good ;)

[Kimsus]

I think most people are talking about the fast fractions and still holding on. No one said it was the best field of all time.
I just don't get the knock on the Travers. Let's take the "great" BC Classic:

EINSTEIN: One Grade 1 victory on synth.
AWESOME GEM: Never won a Grade 1
GIROLAMO: Never won a Grade 1
REGAL RANSOM: Never won Grade 1
RICHARDS KID: One Grade 1 victory at 25-1.
TWICE OVER: Pure Turf horse with one Grade 1 victory
COLONEL JOHN: Hadn't won a Grade 1 or dirt race in over 14 months.
GIO PONTI: A pure turf horse who would've ran in Turf Class if at dirt track.
MTB: One Grade 1 victory back in the Derby
QUALITY ROAD: Not a synthetic horse. One G1 win back in March at his GP.
RIP VAN WINKLE: Pure turf horse who had foot problems.
SUMMER BIRD: Dirt horse(RA beat)

CHOCOLATE CANDY AND BULLSBAY:Were entered but as discussed many times on threads as nothing great.

My point is you can pull apart any field. The BC field was nothing great and not even close to the top races they had in the past, but to hear some people you'd think Silver Charm,Skip Away,Cigar,Slew,Ghostzapper etc were there.

Was the Travers the best field ever or one of the the tops? No but it was a great performance from start to finish IMO. I think these two will do wonders this year and face eachother and we are all getting too worked up so early in the year like it's already OCT. It's going to be good ;)

This is good info, however I think we are now moving on to the conversation of Rachel being carefully selected for easier spots and what kind of risks her owner is willing to take. If you are objective, it is hard to deny she has been carefully managed image wise, and the excuses of not running because of this and not running because of that are wearing thin.

[tzipi]

This is good info, however I think we are now moving on to the conversation of Rachel being carefully selected for easier spots and what kind of risks her owner is willing to take. If you are objective, it is hard to deny she has been carefully managed image wise, and the excuses of not running because of this and not running because of that are wearing thin.

Well Kimsus Zen was carefully managed image wise. She never travelled anywhere and the connections knowing she was way better ran against the same girls race after race. Very easy schedule and no travelling.
I think Jackson was WAY more ambitious with RA. A 3yo filly placed in amongst others the Preakness,Woodward,and Haskell. Also travelling to numerous states. Tell any trainer thats a easy sched for a 3yo filly.

We will have to agree to disagree I guess :D But honestly Kimsus 2009 was 2009. I think we will get alot of excitement this year ahead of us and alot of great things and races to talk about with these two. :ThmbUp:

[Kimsus]

Well Kimsus Zen was carefully managed image wise. She never travelled anywhere and the connections knowing she was way better ran against the same girls race after race. Very easy schedule and no travelling.
I think Jackson was WAY more ambitious with RA. A 3yo filly placed in amongst others the Preakness,Woodward,and Haskell. Also travelling to numerous states. Tell any trainer thats a easy sched for a 3yo filly.

We will have to agree to disagree I guess :D But honestly Kimsus 2009 was 2009. I think we will get alot of excitement this year ahead of us and alot of great things and races to talk about with these two. :ThmbUp:

Tzipi,

How long can the public keep giving her a free pass for those accomplishments. She passed on races post Woodward and she passed on the BC due to reasons only her owner truly knows and now she is passing on Zenyatta and the Apple Blossom unless she gets a week. The owner is in negotiation for a 3 races series without the knowledge of the owner of the horse they are supposed to race against. You may be more forgiving than many of us, but actions do speak louder than spin.

[tzipi]

Tzipi,

How long can the public keep giving her a free pass for those accomplishments. She passed on races post Woodward and she passed on the BC due to reasons only her owner truly knows and now she is passing on Zenyatta and the Apple Blossom unless she gets a week. The owner is in negotiation for a 3 races series without the knowledge of the owner of the horse they are supposed to race against. You may be more forgiving than many of us, but actions do speak louder than spin.

Well I think she ran a very hard and taxing schedule for a 3yo filly and needed a rest. Horses are not machines. Past on BC because of the messed up synthetic out there and it's not even dirt championships. its turf horse/dirt horse championships. Plus she needed a rest. What 3yo filly campaigns that schedule?
The Apple Blossom. Hey why blast hard out of the gate. They want to get some races and conditioning in first before they bust 110% pedal to the metal races. They have all year ahead of them. Not just April.
But you can have your own opinion my man. Gotta get some stuff done. Ttyl Kimsus :)

[Kimsus]

Well I think she ran a very hard and taxing schedule for a 3yo filly and needed a rest. Horses are not machines. Past on BC because of the messed up synthetic out there and it's not even dirt championships. its turf horse/dirt horse championships. Plus she needed a rest. What 3yo filly campaigns that schedule?
The Apple Blossom. Hey why blast hard out of the gate. They want to get some races and conditioning in first before they bust 110% pedal to the metal races. They have all year ahead of them. Not just April.
But you can have your own opinion my man. Gotta get some stuff done. Ttyl Kimsus :)

Yep, heard all the reasons .... or excuses depending on who you are I guess.

[tzipi]

Yep, heard all the reasons .... or excuses depending on who you are I guess.

Ahhh you kill me Kimsus :D Have a great day though. Good talking.

[mountainman]

I think most people are talking about the fast fractions and still holding on. No one said it was the best field of all time.
I just don't get the knock on the Travers. Let's take the "great" BC Classic:

EINSTEIN: One Grade 1 victory on synth.
AWESOME GEM: Never won a Grade 1
GIROLAMO: Never won a Grade 1
REGAL RANSOM: Never won Grade 1
RICHARDS KID: One Grade 1 victory at 25-1.
TWICE OVER: Pure Turf horse with one Grade 1 victory
COLONEL JOHN: Hadn't won a Grade 1 or dirt race in over 14 months.
GIO PONTI: A pure turf horse who would've ran in Turf Class if at dirt track.
MTB: One Grade 1 victory back in the Derby
QUALITY ROAD: Not a synthetic horse. One G1 win back in March at his GP.
RIP VAN WINKLE: Pure turf horse who had foot problems.
SUMMER BIRD: Dirt horse(RA beat)

CHOCOLATE CANDY AND BULLSBAY:Were entered but as discussed many times on threads as nothing great.

My point is you can pull apart any field. The BC field was nothing great and not even close to the top races they had in the past, but to hear some people you'd think Silver Charm,Skip Away,Cigar,Slew,Ghostzapper etc were there.

Was the Travers the best field ever or one of the the tops? No but it was a great performance from start to finish IMO. I think these two will do wonders this year and face eachother and we are all getting too worked up so early in the year like it's already OCT. It's going to be good ;)

Good post. I was less than wowed by the caliber of last year's classic. And I agree that Rachel deserves extra credit for her ability to survive a strenuous pace. And not just in the Woodward. Considering the post and interior heat, I was equally impressed by her Preakness win. But a great horse with a speed-style carries a target on its back, so Rachel's connections should reconcile themselves to her facing intense early pressure in any race that involves Zenyatta. Team Zenyatta will see to that.

[gm10]

3 race series?

one on the poly as well, Jess?

[ghostyapper]

I love the excuse part. She was never under consideration for the Beldame after the Woodward. I know it's easier to just make stuff up, but it didn't happen.

Wrong. Jackson said shortly after the woodward that she would not run again unless Zenyatta came east for the beldame.

[ghostyapper]

Nor the unabashed detractors of same :rolleyes:.

I don't remember JJ saying squat about the Donn or even mentioning starting her in the AB. I think even when he was on the stand at HOTY he say the AB was doubtful as a start for her or shortly after. It not like he said she's running and the pulled out cause Zen entered. OP tried to make something that was never in the plans for RA. The getting in the gate with Zen will at some point no doubt there at all... just not at OP.

But the Beat (down) goes on about Rachel and Jackson.


Those who do... do. Those who do not... bitch... piss and moan... about those that do but not their way. :lol:
It's easy to bag on ones action when you have no horse in the race and nothing to lose but your own opinion.

And another thing the three races... that Moss claims he knew nothing about. I don't buy it. I'd guess Jess did not map out what races but said what do you say three race series for the girls one dirt.. one plastic.. one turf. As for the purposed run over synthetic KEENLAND could of been the track he'd thought of for that. ;)

What's hilarious is the groupies want to believe anything Jackson spews out with blind faith yet they are ok questioning the merits of what others say like moss. Yes now moss is lying that Jackson did not contact him. :lol:

[FenceBored]

Wrong. Jackson said shortly after the woodward that she would not run again unless Zenyatta came east for the beldame.

Yeah, sure he did. :rolleyes:

Was that at the same time he told you about his plans to control the world through flouridating wines?

[gm10]

Good post. I was less than wowed by the caliber of last year's classic. And I agree that Rachel deserves extra credit for her ability to survive a strenuous pace. And not just in the Woodward. Considering the post and interior heat, I was equally impressed by her Preakness win. But a great horse with a speed-style carries a target on its back, so Rachel's connections should reconcile themselves to her facing intense early pressure in any race that involves Zenyatta. Team Zenyatta will see to that.

You can only beat who shows up. Take Curlin for example. Looking back, were they really that hot, Hard Spun, Awesome Gem? Or more recently, RA only just holding off the very unexciting Macho Again. Yet nobody holds that against them, their performances aren't downgraded.

[gm10]

Wrong. Jackson said shortly after the woodward that she would not run again unless Zenyatta came east for the beldame.

HE always comes up with these strange suggestions that clearly serve no other purpose than to hide the fact that he is is afraid of getting beaten by her.

[46zilzal]

Oaklawn is advertising that it is back on today

[Dahoss9698]

Wrong. Jackson said shortly after the woodward that she would not run again unless Zenyatta came east for the beldame.

Prove it. Link?

[OntheRail]

What's hilarious is the groupies want to believe anything Jackson spews out with blind faith yet they are ok questioning the merits of what others say like moss. Yes now moss is lying that Jackson did not contact him. :lol:

Oh but we should take to heart anything that that dribbles out of Yapper's trap... as gospel.. cause he a Zenalot and Moss parts the waters the flooded SA. :lol:. Well ghosty go re watch the Eclipse again... I'm sure Jackson said he wanted to see RA and Z run more then once in 2010. And I'm pretty sure Moss was right there. And said he'd be calling him so they could work it out. Maybe he did not hear Jackson make the statement cause he was in shock about losing HOTY to Jackson again. :D

[andymays]

It's back on for April 9th!

[mountainman]

Yet nobody holds that against them, their performances aren't downgraded.

Say WHAT?? We must live in different worlds then, because in the one i inhabit, the competition vanquished by BOTH horses has been slammed, scoffed at and denigrated(new word i learned on the mtb thread) a ton of times by a ton of observers. Pointed opinions are what make horse racing. Indeed, how could you possibly wager on any eventual meeting between these two dynamos without in comparison 'downgrading' one of them in some regard??????

Take the high road and praise both horses to the high heavens if you like. They deserve it. But i'd rather get down and dirty and look for chinks in the armour. It's not only more fun, but that mindset serves me better at the windows.

[Judge Gallivan]

I think most people are talking about the fast fractions and still holding on. No one said it was the best field of all time.
I just don't get the knock on the Travers. Let's take the "great" BC Classic:

TWICE OVER: Pure Turf horse with one Grade 1 victory
GIO PONTI: A pure turf horse who would've ran in Turf Class if at dirt track
RIP VAN WINKLE: Pure turf horse who had foot problems.



Just about everyone agrees that Pro-ride is practically an artificial turf. Then you go on and dismiss turf horses on fake turf. That doesn't make any sense. If anything you should dismiss dirt horses on Pro-ride.

[castaway01]

Say WHAT?? We must live in different worlds then, because in the one i inhabit, the competition vanquished by BOTH horses has been slammed, scoffed at and denigrated(new word i learned on the mtb thread) a ton of times by a ton of observers. Pointed opinions are what make horse racing. Indeed, how could you possibly wager on any eventual meeting between these two dynamos without in comparison 'downgrading' one of them in some regard??????

Take the high road and praise both horses to the high heavens if you like. They deserve it. But i'd rather get down and dirty and look for chinks in the armour. It's not only more fun, but that mindset serves me better at the windows.

Yeah, you'd sure have cleaned up betting against RA and Zenyatta last year...what did you do with all those profits?

[Cardus]

The end.

[mountainman]

Yeah, you'd sure have cleaned up betting against RA and Zenyatta last year...what did you do with all those profits?

er ah.. you're kind of missing the point here slick... or do you think they can BOTH win when they square off?? tx for the laff.

[toussaud]

Yeah, you'd sure have cleaned up betting against RA and Zenyatta last year...what did you do with all those profits?
snuggies brah

[46zilzal]

I will do a big belly laugh if NEITHER of these two wins this.

[mountainman]

I will do a big belly laugh if NEITHER of these two wins this.
Some colt or gelding that neither can handle will probably arise. That's my favorite scenario to.

[cj]

Some colt or gelding that neither can handle will probably arise. That's my favorite scenario to.

That is not going to happen in the Apple Blossom. No way, no how.

[OntheRail]

Some colt or gelding that neither can handle will probably arise. That's my favorite scenario to.

Not in the Apple Blossom. :lol:

[mountainman]

That is not going to happen in the Apple Blossom. No way, no how.
My money says they aren't MEETING in the Apple Blossom. No way, no how.

[mountainman]

Not in the Apple Blossom. :lol:

So if they don't meet in the Apple Blossom, the laff is on you?

[mountainman]

[QUOTE=mountainman]My bad. I didn't notice that the post I quoted pertained specifically to this race. But I still doubt that the matchup comes off as planned.

[OntheRail]

So if they don't meet in the Apple Blossom, the laff is on you?
If they don't it has no effect on me one way or the other... but if they do aint gonna be a colt or gledding. That's all I'm saying. ;)

[OntheRail]

[QUOTE=mountainman]My bad. I didn't notice that the post I quoted pertained specifically to this race.

No trouble at all guy. Question do you check your PM's I sent you a question about a horse some time back?

[mountainman]

If they don't it has no effect on me one way or the other... but if they do aint gonna be a colt or gledding. That's all I'm saying. ;)
My bad. Read the guy's post wrong. Do predict they will both be ducking some male before the year is out.

[mountainman]

[QUOTE=mountainman]

No trouble at all guy. Question do you check your PM's I sent you a question about a horse some time back?

Almost never. Sorry pal. How can I help you?

[OntheRail]

[QUOTE=OntheRail]

Almost never. Sorry pal. How can I help you?
Do you recall a horse.. Olde Duke Puffer? I was just wondering what became of him. I really like that Old Guy he had allot of heart... just can't find any info on him.

Sorry all for the slight hijack.

[lamboguy]

no question that if they held the race in santa anita, ZENYATA would win no matter how far the distance and no matter what the rest of the field looked like.

this deal with the distance change just took ZENYATTA out of this APPLE BLOSSOM. i don't think there is a filly or mare alive that can give RACHEL any pace problems at all. by the time they hit the backstretch RACHEL will run the other fillies and mares off their feet and ZENYATTA will inherit an early 2nd position in the race, something that she is not used to. she likes to lope around as far back as possible and start running into the far turn. she will be running alot earlier here than what she wants. she will be going backwards into the stretch without any horses infront of her other than RACHEL.

i have no idea why they agreed to the extra distance, they obviously don't see it the way i do. i can tell you the RACHEL team must be licking their chops tonight with the extra sixteenth of a mile and the extra time.

[mountainman]

[QUOTE=mountainman]
Do you recall a horse.. Olde Duke Puffer? I was just wondering what became of him. I really like that Old Guy he had allot of heart... just can't find any info on him.

Sorry all for the slight hijack.

I'll try to get some info on him. The horse would be what, like 14 now?

[OntheRail]

[QUOTE=OntheRail]

I'll try to get some info on him. The horse would be what, like 14 now?
That would be right.. I would not think he'd be running but would hope he's still kickin and hanging out in a pasture. Just thought you may be able to find out.

This was the thread I started about him.
http://www.paceadvantage.com/forum/showthread.php?t=62120
Thanks

Again all sorry the the high jack.

[46zilzal]

by the time they hit the backstretch RACHEL will run the other fillies and mares off their feet and ZENYATTA will inherit an early 2nd position in the race, something that she is not used to. she likes to lope around as far back as possible and start running into the far turn. she will be running a lot earlier here than what she wants. she will be going backwards into the stretch without any horses in front of her other than RACHEL.

.
In reviewing her past performances for the BC classic, she made her best moves versus the fastest pace up front so she has easily done it several times.

Hardly backwards as she closed on paces she will see again.

[gm10]

Say WHAT?? We must live in different worlds then, because in the one i inhabit, the competition vanquished by BOTH horses has been slammed, scoffed at and denigrated(new word i learned on the mtb thread) a ton of times by a ton of observers. Pointed opinions are what make horse racing. Indeed, how could you possibly wager on any eventual meeting between these two dynamos without in comparison 'downgrading' one of them in some regard??????

Take the high road and praise both horses to the high heavens if you like. They deserve it. But i'd rather get down and dirty and look for chinks in the armour. It's not only more fun, but that mindset serves me better at the windows.

:D