Will a Triple Crown winner......

[only11]

Attract new fans to the SPORT OF KINGS?

[rastajenk]

For a few weeks. Then it will become football season once again.

[johnhannibalsmith]

Perhaps, but the following fifty-one weeks won't offer much hope for retaining them if that's the best the industry has to offer.

[tzipi]

For a few weeks. Then it will become football season once again.

I agree, for a few weeks if we're lucky. If a horse wins the TC now they will SURELY be retired after the Belmont Stakes. Maybe maybe maybe the BC if we are lucky. The money will be through the roof after the Belmont! It's not about the sport anymore, its about the owners and their already filled wallets.

[joanied]

Hmmmm...if the TC winner continues to race...it'll bring in new fans, IMO.

I believe one of the reason's we're loosing fans and not getting many new ones is the fact we don't have the good horses stay around long enough to get a following...maybe, just maybe, that can change...
with Jess Jackson keeping both Curlin and Rachel racing as 4 yr olds, with the Mosses keeping Zenyatta racing another year, and the fact the breeding industry is a mess, the lower stud fees can effect racing in a positive way...a good 3 yr old in this economy won't stand for $60,000+ off his record (even Curlin had his fee drop for this season)...but keeping him racing as a 4 yr old, and he wins a few more Graded Stakes...then the owner can stand him for more and mare owners will pay it because he prooved he's more than a 3 yr old wonder.

[cj]

We don't need fans, we need bettors.

[Charlie D]

We don't need fans, we need bettors.


I would say your correct CJ, but how do you attract the bettors???

[cj]

I would say your correct CJ, but how do you attract the bettors???

By promoting gambling, not horses, as the main attraction.

Nobody says the beauty of a deck of cards drew them to the poker table.

[only11]

We don't need fans, we need bettors.
cj i agree, but dont you have to be a fan first?

[cj]

cj i agree, but dont you have to be a fan first?

I think that is a common mistake. The people attracted to pretty horses running around in circles are generally not the kind of people attracted to betting. That isn't to say some gamblers don't care about horses or think of them as numbers, but some don't.

There is lots of gambling going on by people who aren't fans. Lottery? Casino?

[Charlie D]

By promoting gambling, not horses, as the main attraction.

Nobody says the beauty of a deck of cards drew them to the poker table.


Like it. :)

[tzipi]

I think that is a common mistake. The people attracted to pretty horses running around in circles are generally not the kind of people attracted to betting. That isn't to say some gamblers don't care about horses or think of them as numbers, but some don't.

There is lots of gambling going on by people who aren't fans. Lottery? Casino?

I think CJ is right on here. The sport needs bettors. I love the horses themselves but it's a betting sport for many and that's what the sports needs to attract to stay alive.

[cj]

Don't get me wrong, we need fans that don't bet if they are to become owners. They are of course very important too. Of course, that is just another form of gambling.

That is another segment of the racing industry that is tired of getting fleeced by unscrupulous leeches and they are going away as well.

[only11]

I think that is a common mistake. The people attracted to pretty horses running around in circles are generally not the kind of people attracted to betting. That isn't to say some gamblers don't care about horses or think of them as numbers, but some don't.

There is lots of gambling going on by people who aren't fans. Lottery? Casino?
cj..back in the day horseracing was popular,how come Sports illustrated who had BIG RED on there cover never wrote a article on why horseracing is a dying sport?

[cj]

cj..back in the day horseracing was popular,how come Sports illustrated who had BIG RED on there cover never wrote a article on why horseracing is a dying sport?

What were the other legal gambling alternatives in 1973?

[tzipi]

What were the other legal gambling alternatives in 1973?

Totally agree. Once upon a time racing was the only game in town. Now they have to compete with TONS of other gambling sports and games and racing itself still hasn't come about into the new word of gambling. It's not the 40'S or 60'S or even 80'S anymore. They have to wake up.

[RaceBookJoe]

What were the other legal gambling alternatives in 1973?

jai alai ??? never understood that crazy game haha rbj

[only11]

What were the other legal gambling alternatives in 1973?
Would you say Boxing like Horseracing are very similiar?There best years are way behind?

[Charlie D]

Ok CJ.

We have our product (betting on horses) now we need some customers (bettors) to come and play, how are we going to sell the product to them???

[jonnielu]

Totally agree. Once upon a time racing was the only game in town. Now they have to compete with TONS of other gambling sports and games and racing itself still hasn't come about into the new word of gambling. It's not the 40'S or 60'S or even 80'S anymore. They have to wake up.

Wake up to what? There has always been plenty of gambling to be had. There is way more gambling to be done on horses now then in the 70's, so the problem is more then availability at face value.

People believe that they have more of a shot at a dice table or a lottery ticket stand. Why is that? Also, takeout is the same 100% for losers at horses, just like any other game.

jdl

[Charlie D]

People believe that they have more of a shot at a dice table or a lottery ticket stand. Why is that?

jdl


Yes Jonnie, why is that and what can racing do to recify that??

[tzipi]

Wake up to what? There has always been plenty of gambling to be had. There is way more gambling to be done on horses now then in the 70's, so the problem is more then availability at face value.

People believe that they have more of a shot at a dice table or a lottery ticket stand. Why is that? Also, takeout is the same 100% for losers at horses, just like any other game.

jdl

No No. I mean in those days horses were one of the few gambling games. Now there are so many. Even the ones that were backroom like poker are SO huge now and mainstream. That was my point. Young people will play poker or bet on college sports,football,etc over playing the horses.

[tzipi]

Yes Jonnie, why is that and what can racing do to recify that??

Because it's alot easier to understand poker,dice,lottery,etc than the horses. Young people today see it as a losing game that is difficult to even understand.

[Charlie D]

Because it's alot easier to understand poker,dice,lottery,etc than the horses. Young people today see it as a losing game that is difficult to even understand.



Most people start out not understanding most things in life and like successful poker players they have to be educated in how to play the game.


I didn't wake up one morning and understand horse racing. I had to be educated via books, articles, posts on racing forums.

[tzipi]

Most people start out not understanding most things in life and like successful poker players they have to be educated in how to play the game.


I didn't wake up one morning and understand horse racing. I had to be educated via books, articles, posts on racing forums.

Yeah I agree but poker and other games are seen as a winning game. Horse racing is not. Also people understand betting are cards,sports teams,etc but not animals running.

[Charlie D]

Yeah I agree but poker and other games are seen as a winning game. Horse racing is not. Also people understand betting are cards,sports teams,etc but not animals running.


Horse racing can be a winning game and betting on those things you mention with any success is no different, you still need to be educated in how to go about estimating probability.

[tzipi]

Horse racing can be a winning game and betting on those things you mention with any success is no different, you still need to be educated in how to go about estimating probability.

Well I'm just saying younger people have gone to ther games. games that are easier to understand. Younger people look at a DRF like its rocket science printed out. Don't have that in poker,lottery,sports betting,etc.

PLUS they see people winning and win themselves in other games. What did handicapper John Conte say after wining the handicappers Championship for $500,000?:
"IF I WIN 2 MORE OF THESE I'LL BE EVEN" :lol: :lol:

[Relwob Owner]

Because it's alot easier to understand poker,dice,lottery,etc than the horses. Young people today see it as a losing game that is difficult to even understand.


I can see your point with poker and dice but craps, I disagree....it took me a while to fully get it(granted it was 18 years ago and I was 18 and pretty dim) and when I am playing, I see tons of people approach the table, try and learn and get intimidated and walk away......with all casino games, though, there are just so many more people who attend the casinos and thus the numbers of people who take the time to learn is so much greater....racetracks? not so much

[tzipi]

I can see your point with poker and dice but craps, I disagree....it took me a while to fully get it(granted it was 18 years ago and I was 18 and pretty dim) and when I am playing, I see tons of people approach the table, try and learn and get intimidated and walk away......with all casino games, though, there are just so many more people who attend the casinos and thus the numbers of people who take the time to learn is so much greater....racetracks? not so much

Well yeah craps is difficult. Never said that was easy :D . But the younger crowd wants the winning games and the popular games. Not horse racing. Unfortunatly.

[BluegrassProf]

I firmly believe that betting the races - much like the industry at large - suffers from a difficult-to-overcome image problem. Moving from a racing state (KY) to a nearby relatively race-free state, I often get curious looks - often bordering on disdain, in fact - when mentioning handicapping, or even horseracing generally. In many places, particularly states with little to no racing, the perception of horseracing has turned on its head, from a top-tier sport to a sport of chain-smokers and nervous Racing Form page-turners.

My local track mirrors this twist physically, as its deterioration reflects the shifting perception and attendance demographic. A self-fulfilling problem, perhaps?

I've long suggested that horseracing needs to be reaching out to each of the two primary audiences attending the races, which can in many ways be viewed distinctly (though not mutually exclusive): bettors and spectators.

Bettors need incentive to attend races; they need to be recognized for their fiscal input certainly, as well as their knowledge of racing history and the intricacies of the game. And ideally, spectators should be as likely to attend Wednesday afternoon claimers as they are major stakes events, drawn to tracks with atmosphere and accessibility. What keeps the sport alive are the "in-between" days.

I think each of these two groups is important to the lifeblood of tracks specifically and TB racing generally, and steps should be made to court both.

Perhaps efforts to make the difference between those two groups less distinct...?

As to whether or not a TC winner will draw spectators to racing: sure, but to what extent? We need more than a handful of major races and super-duperstars...the sport is far larger than that happy handful...

[jonnielu]

Because it's alot easier to understand poker,dice,lottery,etc than the horses. Young people today see it as a losing game that is difficult to even understand.

Do you see that as an accurate assessment?

jdl

[jonnielu]

Horse racing can be a winning game and betting on those things you mention with any success is no different, you still need to be educated in how to go about estimating probability.

So there must be something that suggests to the newbie that he/she could learn poker, or lotto (what's to learn?) easier, or with less effort. Thinking is also something that the younger set seems to want to avoid.

jdl

[tzipi]

Do you see that as an accurate assessment?

jdl

Yup. Why do you think younger people play the other games. As i said handicapper John Conte even said after his handicappers championship win for $500,000. "If I win two more of these, I'll be even" :lol:

Let's see 6 guys have $200 each. Play a poker game where someone can win $1,200(or 1st and 2nd prizes) or play horses and try to make $1,200. I'd say poker bigtime. Same with football and college betting to them. Not like I'm lying, just look around a track everyday.

[Relwob Owner]

Well yeah craps is difficult. Never said that was easy :D . But the younger crowd wants the winning games and the popular games. Not horse racing. Unfortunatly.


Yep, popular is a big part....at Holiday meals with my cousins who are 20-30, I tell them I am into horse racing and they look at me like I am 105 years old.....then, I go to the track, look around and feel like I am 105 years old....

[Charlie D]

I can see your point with poker and dice but craps, I disagree....it took me a while to fully get it(granted it was 18 years ago and I was 18 and pretty dim) and when I am playing, I see tons of people approach the table, try and learn and get intimidated and walk away......with all casino games, though, there are just so many more people who attend the casinos and thus the numbers of people who take the time to learn is so much greater....racetracks? not so much

Why is that?? learning how to handicap is not rocket science, if it were i think i would be incapable of doing it.

[tzipi]

Why is that?? learning how to handicap is not rocket science, if it were i think i would be incapable of doing it.

Handicapping horses and looking at the DRF is. Takes a long time to understand. I know I'm younger. Friends look at the paper like it's rocket science. Poker,lottery,sports games betting does not have that look.
Again, they will take their $200 and get into a poker game with a few guys and have the possibility of winning big. Plus their poker game has NO takeout :lol:

[Charlie D]

Horse A 140
Horse B 138
Horse C 130
Horse D 125
Horse E 120


If able to repeat thier performance, Horse A is most likely winner, Horse B is most likely to finish 2nd

Where is the rocket science???

[tzipi]

Horse A 140
Horse B 138
Horse C 130
Horse D 125
Horse E 120


If able to repeat thier performance, Horse A is most likely winner, Horse B is most likely to finish 2nd

Where is the rocket science???

You really think horse racing is that simple and easy?

[Relwob Owner]

Horse A 140
Horse B 138
Horse C 130
Horse D 125
Horse E 120


If able to repeat thier performance, Horse A is most likely winner, Horse B is most likely to finish 2nd

Where is the rocket science???


I am guessing that is a sarcastic post?

[Charlie D]

You really think horse racing is that simple and easy?


I don't think it i know it is.


Overcomplication is common as someone once stated


Zenyatta was 2nd to Rip Van winkle on TF ratings for BC , both a few pouds ahead of the next horse, Rip don't run his race, Zen pees in


That simple.

[jonnielu]

Why is that?? learning how to handicap is not rocket science, if it were i think i would be incapable of doing it.

So the 25 - 35 YO wants to play something that doesn't take a lot of effort. With that kind of criteria, it doesn't seem like the game itself is terribly important. So the list of want is like this:

1. easy to play

2. easy to learn

3. can win big with small

4. every player has a shot

Does horse racing fit this want list? If not, what do you whittle off to make it fit at least well enough that you could make a pitch to this demographic with a straight face?

jdl

[tzipi]

I don't think it i know it is.


Overcomplication is common as someone once stated


Zenyatta was 2nd to Rip Van winkle on TF ratings for BC , both a few pouds ahead of the next horse, Rip don't run his race, Zen pees in


That simple.

So what about the people who had big money on Zen-Rip exacta. It's that easy one-two, right? What happened?

[Relwob Owner]

I don't think it i know it is.


Overcomplication is common as someone once stated


Zenyatta was 2nd to Rip Van winkle on TF ratings for BC , both a few pouds ahead of the next horse, Rip don't run his race, Zen pees in


That simple.


I dont know how to respond....I guess you are blessed with the ability to quickly understand the game and do well in it. I would be lying if I said I wasnt skeptical. To me, it is a very complicated game that is a challenge for new people to learn and understand but that is what makes it great to me.

[Charlie D]

So what about the people who had big money on Zen-Rip exacta. It's that easy one-two, right? What happened?



Horses are not machines, they do have off days.


Here one for yer


Preaknes,

KD winner, Oaks winner, put em in an couple of buck exacta.

Exacata Landed paying 38 bucks


That simple.

[Relwob Owner]

Horses are not machines, they do have off days.


Here one for yer


Preaknes,

KD winner, Oaks winner, put em in an couple of buck exacta.

Exacata Landed paying 38 bucks


That simple.



OK-I will ask...how many cocktails have you had????

[jonnielu]

I dont know how to respond....I guess you are blessed with the ability to quickly understand the game and do well in it. I would be lying if I said I wasnt skeptical. To me, it is a very complicated game that is a challenge for new people to learn and understand but that is what makes it great to me.

How does it seem complicated? The fast horses rip out of the gate, and the slow horses try to catch them before they get to the wire. Bet three fast horses, and three slow horses, and you have just as much of a shot at the superfecta as anyone else.

jdl

[Charlie D]

I am trying to show you horse racing is not ROCKET science.

[tzipi]

Horses are not machines, they do have off days.


Here one for yer


Preaknes,

KD winner, Oaks winner, put em in an couple of buck exacta.

Exacata Landed paying 38 bucks


That simple.

Give me a break. What a joke! Why do I feel like you didn't place that Preakness bet but now your preaching how it was that simple. So what island do you own? You must be rich :lol: :lol:

OHHHHH It's so simple right two top numbers Zenyatta and Rip. But now the excuse about how the horse didn't run.. OH REALLLYYYY. Ha I though it was so easy. Whatever.

[Relwob Owner]

So the 25 - 35 YO wants to play something that doesn't take a lot of effort. With that kind of criteria, it doesn't seem like the game itself is terribly important. So the list of want is like this:

1. easy to play

2. easy to learn

3. can win big with small

4. every player has a shot

Does horse racing fit this want list? If not, what do you whittle off to make it fit at least well enough that you could make a pitch to this demographic with a straight face?




jdl



I think a lot of it is loving the sport and loving being at the track....that leads to a factor I dont see discussed much. Veteran players(35 years old plus) are the ones who will pass on their love of the game to kids/relatives....I would guess that there are a lot of us(I am 36) that arent happy with the game as much as we used to be and arent as enthusiastic about getting others involved....just a thought

[jonnielu]

I am trying to show you horse racing is not ROCKET science.

You see how high this wall has been built Charlie? People just don't want to believe that the racing is simple, and they complicate it. How many players will admit that winning was easier when they started?

jdl

[Relwob Owner]

How does it seem complicated? The fast horses rip out of the gate, and the slow horses try to catch them before they get to the wire. Bet three fast horses, and three slow horses, and you have just as much of a shot at the superfecta as anyone else.

jdl



ugh..........................

[Charlie D]

Give me a break. What a joke! Why do I feel like you lost your Preakness bets but now your preaching how it was that simple. So what island do you own? You must be rich :lol: :lol:

OHHHHH It's so simple right two top numbers Zenyatta and Rip. But now the excuse about how the horse didn't run.. OH REALLLYYYY. Ha I though it was so easy. Whatever.



CJ makes numbers, do you think his subcribers are betting on the Top ones or the botton ones???

[tzipi]

CJ makes numbers, do you think his subcribers are betting on the Top ones or the botton ones???

What's that mean??? Of course people bet on the top numbers. And if all the top numbers came in every race and it was that easy. They'd own a island and everything else and not be playing the races.

So Charlie can you post every ex and trip of Aqueducts Wednesday card for me. IF it's that EASY. Can you just show me one day how easy it is? Please!

[Charlie D]

What's that mean??? Of course people bet on the top numbers. And if all the top numbers came in every race and it was that easy. They'd own a island and everything else and not be playing the races.

So Charlie can you post every ex and trip of Aqueducts Wednesday card for me. IF it's that EASY. Can you just show me one day how easy it is? Please!


Ah, so it as simple as betting Top numbers as i stated, so why are saying this


Give me a break. What a joke! Why do I feel like you didn't place that Preakness bet but now your preaching how it was that simple. So what island do you own? You must be rich

[tzipi]

Ah, so it as simple as betting Top numbers as i stated, so why are saying this

Betting the top numbers and winning on betting the top numbers are two different things :lol: Cmon.

Again, can you post the Wednesdays Aqu card exactas and trips for me. Just one day. Please!

[46zilzal]

I used to love all the closet experts who would magically appear the times a Triple Crown was in the works. DID NOT KNOW A THING but thumped their chests like the did.

Favorite wager was: True or False, no horse ever won the triple crown and I will bet you 25 cents.

Several COLTS have done it but no horses.

[Charlie D]

Betting the top numbers and winning on betting the top numbers are two different things :lol: Cmon.

Again, can you post the Wednesdays Aqu card exactas and trips for me. Just one day. Please!


Are you saying you can not win betting Top numbers??

[tzipi]

Are you saying you can not win betting Top numbers??

Ok well I guess your backing off Wed Aqu card. Yup, keep betting top numbers every race. You own what island? Oh nevermind which one I know.. :D
Well would've been fun to see all the winners on Aqu Wed card because it's so easy but guess not.

[jonnielu]

I think a lot of it is loving the sport and loving being at the track....that leads to a factor I dont see discussed much. Veteran players(35 years old plus) are the ones who will pass on their love of the game to kids/relatives....I would guess that there are a lot of us(I am 36) that arent happy with the game as much as we used to be and arent as enthusiastic about getting others involved....just a thought

I would think that loving the sport, or the animal, would lead to a better understanding of it. Not complication. I can't think of anything less complicated then being in tune with the animal to the extent that the horse tells you "this race is mine" through its body language. But, millions of people have no appreciation of that aspect of the game either.

Exactly, what Charlie is suggesting is what needs to be taken out on the street and sold. Simplicity.

A person can buy $50 worth of scratch offs at any stop and go in the country without one person in the line coming up and saying "that is a stupid bet".

But, what happens if I say that I'm going to box the top 4 ML in the exacta for every race at GP on Wednesday?

jdl

[Charlie D]

Ok well I guess your backing off Wed Aqu card. Yup, keep betting top numbers every race. You own what island? Oh nevermind which one I know.. :D
Well would've been fun to see all the winners on Aqu Wed card because it's so easy but guess not.


Ok i will


2009 Derby winner Top, Eclipse winner Top, Arc winner Top (Sea The Stars) BC Classic (Zenyatta )Winner Top, Dubai World Cup (Curlin) winner Top, BC classic winner (Ravens Pass) up top

King George, BC Turf (Conduit) Top

Big Brown Top, Street sense Top, Curlin and Rags for Riches Top


Easy game this is it not??

[tzipi]

Ok i will


2009 Derby winner Top, Eclipse winner Top, Arc winner Top, BC Classic (Zenatta )Winner Top, Dubai World Cup (Curlin) winner Top, BC classic winner (Ravens Pass) up top

Big Brown Top, Street sense Top, Curlin and Rags for Riches Top


Easy innit


You know every winner but are on here and not on a island running a huge club/restaurant you own hahahaha so sad. You got work soon Charlie. Thanks for the Aqu winners..oh wait you couldn't ha. Good talk ttyl Charlie.

[Charlie D]

Where did i say i knew every winner?? nowhere.

What i have done is shown you how simple this game CAN be. what have you done?? Nothing except try to be a comedian

Keep practising.

[tzipi]

Where did i say i knew every winner?? nowhere.

What i have done is shown you how simple this game CAN be. what have you done?? Nothing except try to be a comedian

Keep practising.

Yes I know, winning at horse racing is very simple. You said. I'm trying to be a comedian? Ha ok. Charlie try posting FUTURE easy winners and exactas on here and not past winners and doubles,etc. Proves nothing and anyone could do that. Charlie I gotta go, it's getting late, but I had fun. Ttyl.

[Charlie D]

Yes I know, winning at horse racing is very simple. You said. I'm trying to be a comedian? Ha ok. Charlie try posting FUTURE easy winners and exactas on here and not past winners and doubles,etc. Proves nothing and anyone could do that. Charlie I gotta go, it's getting late, but I had fun. Ttyl.




Plenty of future winners have been posted on racing forums mate and i do it when i feel like it and not at yours or anyone elses command.

[tzipi]

Plenty of future winners have been posted on racing forums mate and i do it when i feel like it and not at yours or anyone elses command.

:ThmbUp: Cool Charlie. But I stand by the original reason why we were posting. Horse racing is not that easy and simple as you say just betting the top numbers. Night. :)

[Charlie D]

Horse racing is as simple or as complicated as you want to make it.

Night

[WinterTriangle]

I think a lot of it is loving the sport and loving being at the track....that leads to a factor I dont see discussed much.

I would think that loving the sport, or the animal, would lead to a better understanding of it. Not complication. I can't think of anything less complicated then being in tune with the animal to the extent that the horse tells you "this race is mine" through its body language. But, millions of people have no appreciation of that aspect of the game either.


You mean, horses aren't just numbers?

:D

[letswastemoney]

You become a fan once the horses start bringing you money as a bettor.

It's hard not to follow a horse throughout their career if you know that horse helped you score a big one.

[Charlie D]

[/i]




You mean, horses aren't just numbers?

:D



It all depends doesn't it, if your a member of my little pony club then horses are lovely animals that you can treat like a pet, if your an owner then your probably interested in winning Graded races and what comes with them, if your a bettor trying to make a living all that matters are number, numbers and more and more numbers and so on.


Me personally, i'm a fan of watching quality performers like RA, Sea The Stars, Zarkava, Kauto Star, Denman, etc first and a bettor second.

[Johnny V]

No No. I mean in those days horses were one of the few gambling games. Now there are so many. Even the ones that were backroom like poker are SO huge now and mainstream. That was my point. Young people will play poker or bet on college sports,football,etc over playing the horses.
Good Point. Poker was a very popular game for a long time. Then it had fell in popularity to the point where the perception was that it was just a game for a bunch of seedy old guys. It wasn't that long ago that some casinos actually shut down their poker rooms.
Poker made a comeback, how?? Maybe horse racing can do the same. Boxing's popularity goes in cycles as well. Maybe there is some hope.

[jonnielu]

[/i]




You mean, horses aren't just numbers?

:D

For some, for others they might be dumb animals, it depends on the individual. But, it seems that for those that just want to bet a number according to some formula would be just as happy to do it with horses or dice. For some reason, the younger folks think that they get a more square deal from the dice.

Over the last 40 years, 2 generations have become convinced that gambling is okay, but gambling on horse racing is not. Whether horse racing had a lot or a little to do with bringing that about, it will be up to horse racing to change it.

jdl

[Ejmenz]

"Good Point. Poker was a very popular game for a long time. Then it had fell in popularity to the point where the perception was that it was just a game for a bunch of seedy old guys. It wasn't that long ago that some casinos actually shut down their poker rooms.
Poker made a comeback, how?? Maybe horse racing can do the same. Boxing's popularity goes in cycles as well. Maybe there is some hope."

I've bet horses for 35 years, when the poker boom hit, I switched over for three years, it took me 6 months to learn to win at Poker.

I made more in those two and a half years at poker then I ever made at Horses.

If the Govt had not passed the UIGEA, (pushed it through on a military bill?) Poker would still be booming.

I had to quit poker when the hourly rate fell drastically, it's in the same boat as Horse Racing right now, shark vs shark is a tough living.

But I can still win at poker, albeit very little, I wish I could say the same about Horse Racing.

[ZephyrHawk]

We don't need fans, we need bettors.

I disagree. Take a look at stakes night at Nad al Sheeba (well, Meydan now). It's packed, and not a dollar bet in the bunch. I won't say I've never put a dollar into a total score pot, but in general we don't bet on football in my house. And yet, every Saturday in the fall my parents pay $40 for the privilege of parking close to a stadium where they annually spend $600+ on tickets, and that is on top of the boku amounts they've donated to the school over the years just to have the chance to buy those tickets. They cover their car in team colors purchased from the team store and set up their team themed chairs underneath their team themed sunshade. They buy pizza and cokes and hotdogs from the vedors that wander the stands. They'd kill for someone who sold alcoholic drinks like you can at most racetracks, and they'd pay any exorbitant price set for them. The Kentucky Derby brings something over 100,000 fans to Louisville on the first Saturday in May. My alma mater packs a stadium with 100,000+ every fall weekend.

What we need is to make racing a "sport" in the eyes of the public. One that people can identify with and become "fans" of. How we do that is another question entirely.

[cj]

I disagree. Take a look at stakes night at Nad al Sheeba (well, Meydan now). It's packed, and not a dollar bet in the bunch. I won't say I've never put a dollar into a total score pot, but in general we don't bet on football in my house. And yet, every Saturday in the fall my parents pay $40 for the privilege of parking close to a stadium where they annually spend $600+ on tickets, and that is on top of the boku amounts they've donated to the school over the years just to have the chance to buy those tickets. They cover their car in team colors purchased from the team store and set up their team themed chairs underneath their team themed sunshade. They buy pizza and cokes and hotdogs from the vedors that wander the stands. They'd kill for someone who sold alcoholic drinks like you can at most racetracks, and they'd pay any exorbitant price set for them. The Kentucky Derby brings something over 100,000 fans to Louisville on the first Saturday in May. My alma mater packs a stadium with 100,000+ every fall weekend.

What we need is to make racing a "sport" in the eyes of the public. One that people can identify with and become "fans" of. How we do that is another question entirely.

First, trust me, there is betting going on in Dubai.

There could be some strides made if the sport could be unified and come up with some sort of "league", but the nature of the game makes this virtually impossible. It was tried a few times and it just doesn't work. Even then, betting is still an integral part of the game. Purses aren't being paid out on attendance and hot dog sales.