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View Full Version : Can St. Trinians defeat Zenyatta?


letswastemoney
02-07-2010, 11:46 PM
Assuming St. Trinians runs on Saturday and wins, and moves on to the Santa Margarita, do you think she has the talent to beat Zenyatta if they meet up?

statepierback
02-08-2010, 12:02 AM
Saint T. has a strange way of moving. Sort of an egg beater style especially when she changes leads in the lane. She is a good animal but Zenatta would have to have an off day to lose against her.

Zenyatta To Crush
02-08-2010, 12:49 AM
Saint T. has a strange way of moving. Sort of an egg beater style especially when she changes leads in the lane. She is a good animal but Zenatta would have to have an off day to lose against her.
I agree...she does have a different type of stride, kinda low to the ground and kicks her legs out kinda funny. I guess it works for her. I don't think St. Trinian's could get too close to Zenyatta on a normal day. Zenyatta has probably only had one off day, and that was the 2008 Vanity. That effort still might have been good enough to beat St. Trinians.

St. Trinians would have to beat Life Is Sweet pretty easilly on Sat. for me to think she has any shot at beating Zenyatta.

letswastemoney
02-14-2010, 12:01 AM
Any thoughts now? :)

miesque
02-14-2010, 12:19 AM
St. Trinians is quite talented however that stride she has is not just odd but is somewhat concerning. I remember the first time I bet her and being quite taken aback as she came around the turn and down the stretch. She scared me in her prior race because as she came around and leveled out there were a few strides where I thought she was starting to breakdown.

Stillriledup
02-14-2010, 01:49 AM
No. She has an alarmingly crooked leg, i don't know why a horse like this is allowed to race, i know if i was a jocks agent i wouldn't have my rider on a horse like this. You don't get a 2nd chance sometimes.

Dahoss9698
02-14-2010, 02:01 AM
No. She has an alarmingly crooked leg, i don't know why a horse like this is allowed to race, i know if i was a jocks agent i wouldn't have my rider on a horse like this. You don't get a 2nd chance sometimes.

Sharp post

PaceAdvantage
02-14-2010, 03:41 AM
Sharp post:lol:

letswastemoney
02-14-2010, 03:46 AM
Does it matter how she moves as long as she gets the job done?

She's going to have first jump on Zenyatta

Stillriledup
02-14-2010, 03:51 AM
There was an attractive blonde being interviewed on HRTV after this horse won, anyone know who that was?

v j stauffer
02-14-2010, 04:09 AM
No. She has an alarmingly crooked leg, i don't know why a horse like this is allowed to race, i know if i was a jocks agent i wouldn't have my rider on a horse like this. You don't get a 2nd chance sometimes.

Good thing you're not a jocks agent.

Stillriledup
02-14-2010, 04:21 AM
Good thing you're not a jocks agent.

:lol:

I put that 'jocks agent' thing in there just for you!

depalma113
02-14-2010, 07:07 AM
No. She has an alarmingly crooked leg, i don't know why a horse like this is allowed to race, i know if i was a jocks agent i wouldn't have my rider on a horse like this. You don't get a 2nd chance sometimes.

Since her leg is crooked, that somehow means she can't win? The logic on this board gets better and better with each passing day.

Zenyatta had better bring her A game. Otherwise this board is going to have a meltdown if she loses to a horse with a crooked leg.

bks
02-14-2010, 10:40 AM
Zenyatta had better bring her A game. Otherwise this board is going to have a meltdown if she loses to a horse with a crooked leg.


Zenyatta isn't the only one who better bring her 'A' game. $5 million is a huge pot of money. If St. Trinians holds off Zenyatta, rest assured it'll be after St. Trinians passed Rachel in mid-stretch.

FenceBored
02-14-2010, 10:50 AM
Zenyatta isn't the only one who better bring her 'A' game. $5 million is a huge pot of money. If St. Trinians holds off Zenyatta, rest assured it'll be after St. Trinians passed Rachel in mid-stretch.

Uh, we're talking about the $250,000 Santa Margarita on March 13th at Santa Anita, not the $5m Apple Blossom.

dutzman
02-14-2010, 11:12 AM
Zenyatta isn't the only one who better bring her 'A' game. $5 million is a huge pot of money. If St. Trinians holds off Zenyatta, rest assured it'll be after St. Trinians passed Rachel in mid-stretch.

The Santa Margarita will be a hell of a race. But I doubt that St. Trinians will take to the dirt, so they probably won't even try the Apple Blossom.

bks
02-14-2010, 11:42 AM
As for the Santa Margarita, yes, St. Trinians in her current form can beat Zenyatta. Is St. Trinians confirmed for the race?

TJDave
02-14-2010, 11:45 AM
She's going to have first jump on Zenyatta

Everyone does.

letswastemoney
02-14-2010, 11:48 AM
Everyone does.
The fractions will be soft though. It won't be a full field like the BC with Regal Ransom blazing with the lead.

And I believe St Trinians is better than a horse like Lethal Heat, who tried to put the field to sleep at the race at Del Mar

Dahoss9698
02-14-2010, 11:52 AM
The fractions will be soft though. It won't be a full field like the BC with Regal Ransom blazing with the lead.

And I believe St Trinians is better than a horse like Lethal Heat, who tried to put the field to sleep at the race at Del Mar

In a fairly run race I think St Trinians can beat Zenyatta. By fairly I mean moderate pace. But, I think it might be too early to know how soft the fractions are going to be. The race is a month away.

OntheRail
02-14-2010, 12:14 PM
No. She has an alarmingly crooked leg, i don't know why a horse like this is allowed to race, i know if i was a jocks agent i wouldn't have my rider on a horse like this. You don't get a 2nd chance sometimes.

Say What... :faint:

I recall another Mare her rear right leg would of caused me to worry some when I seen her in the paddock if I did not know better... Miss Macy Sue. Bet on her and won. She was born that way... sound is sound even if her confirmation appeared a tad off she's a racehorse not a show horse in a halter class. But to see her run you'd never know.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DdAgDxcFZwc

Zenyatta To Crush
02-14-2010, 12:14 PM
Zenyatta will win this race regardless of the pace scenario. Zenyatta is about 5-6 lengths better than Life Is Sweet if she runs all out and I don't think St Trinians is even more than 2 lengths better than Life Is Sweet. The pace scenario did not favor Life Is Sweet at all in the Santa Maria, but she still only lost by 1-3/4 lengths. PLUS, Life Is Sweet carried 7 more pounds than St Trinians.

Sure, St Trinians is a very good horse, but she would need many things to happen in her favor to even have a chance of upsetting the big mare. I'd say a Zenyatta-St Trinians exacta straight would be an easy bet to win. Might even pay $2 on the $1 bet. Now thats big money!

Dahoss9698
02-14-2010, 12:26 PM
Zenyatta will win this race regardless of the pace scenario. Zenyatta is about 5-6 lengths better than Life Is Sweet if she runs all out and I don't think St Trinians is even more than 2 lengths better than Life Is Sweet. The pace scenario did not favor Life Is Sweet at all in the Santa Maria, but she still only lost by 1-3/4 lengths. PLUS, Life Is Sweet carried 7 more pounds than St Trinians.



Did you watch the race yesterday? How did the pace not favor Life Is Sweet? You had an impossible horse run off and set the pace. The fractions weren't as fast as the BC, but they were legit. Life Is Sweet got beat straight up by a filly that is better than she is right now.

It's dangerous from a betting perspective to compare lengths beaten like you are. Especially when it's all speculation, as Zenyatta beat Life Is Sweet by 1 3/4, 4 1/4 and 2 1/4 lengths last year. Not exactly 5-6 lengths.

Zenyatta To Crush
02-14-2010, 12:48 PM
Did you watch the race yesterday? How did the pace not favor Life Is Sweet? You had an impossible horse run off and set the pace. The fractions weren't as fast as the BC, but they were legit. Life Is Sweet got beat straight up by a filly that is better than she is right now.

It's dangerous from a betting perspective to compare lengths beaten like you are. Especially when it's all speculation, as Zenyatta beat Life Is Sweet by 1 3/4, 4 1/4 and 2 1/4 lengths last year. Not exactly 5-6 lengths.
The pace favored Life Is Sweet??? Ok, maybe I'm looking at the wrong times here...the final fractions were 23:37 and 5:89. Tell me how that favors Life Is Sweet? Heck, they ran 6 furlongs in 1: 12:47. For a 1-1/16 mile race with good horses, this does not benefit closers like Life Is Sweet.

I mean, its not like St Trinians was on the lead, but when a horse that good is sitting a few lengths in front of Life Is Sweet, it does not work in Life Is Sweet's favor.

If Zenyatta is in this race, she probably wins comfortably by a couple lengths. And I still believe that Zenyatta can beat Life Is Sweet by 5-6 lengths if she runs all out. Are you seriously still looking at her winning margins from last year? You probably thought that since she can only beat Anabaa's Creation by a nose that she would finish towards the back of the pack in the Classic too.

Dahoss9698
02-14-2010, 01:00 PM
The pace favored Life Is Sweet??? Ok, maybe I'm looking at the wrong times here...the final fractions were 23:37 and 5:89. Tell me how that favors Life Is Sweet? Heck, they ran 6 furlongs in 1: 12:47. For a 1-1/16 mile race with good horses, this does not benefit closers like Life Is Sweet.

I mean, its not like St Trinians was on the lead, but when a horse that good is sitting a few lengths in front of Life Is Sweet, it does not work in Life Is Sweet's favor.

If Zenyatta is in this race, she probably wins comfortably by a couple lengths. And I still believe that Zenyatta can beat Life Is Sweet by 5-6 lengths if she runs all out. Are you seriously still looking at her winning margins from last year? You probably thought that since she can only beat Anabaa's Creation by a nose that she would finish towards the back of the pack in the Classic too.

The pace was not BC fast, where Life Is Sweet got a very fast pace to run at. But it wasn't slow. Hopefully CJ can shed some light on the internal pace if he sees this or gets a chance.

Life Is Sweet is a dead closer. She's always going to be a few lengths behind horses. Do you watch racing? She got beat by a better horse. It's okay.

Your entire last paragraph is ridiculous. It's based on nothing but Zenyatta is superman emotion and I'm not wasting any more time on that nonsense.

Zenyatta To Crush
02-14-2010, 01:40 PM
The pace was not BC fast, where Life Is Sweet got a very fast pace to run at. But it wasn't slow. Hopefully CJ can shed some light on the internal pace if he sees this or gets a chance.

Life Is Sweet is a dead closer. She's always going to be a few lengths behind horses. Do you watch racing? She got beat by a better horse. It's okay.

Your entire last paragraph is ridiculous. It's based on nothing but Zenyatta is superman emotion and I'm not wasting any more time on that nonsense.
I wouldn't necessarily say St Trinians is obviously better than Life Is Sweet. Yesterday she was because the pace scenario worked more in her favor. Remember, she also got to carry 7 less pounds than Life is Sweet, which is a little bit of an advantage.

Don't even compare the Breeders Cup pace to the Santa Maria pace. They aren't even close. They ran a 1:09.74 in the Ladies Classic compared to a 1:12.47 in the Santa Maria. Plus, the Ladies Classic was a longer race too.

I watch racing enough to know that Life Is Sweet will get beat basically every time if she sits a few lengths behind St Trinians with those soft fractions. They probably should have made an earlier move with her.

In a race with honest pace and equal weights and at 1-1/8, Life Is Sweet and St Trinians are probably equal horses. Zenyatta would dust both of them.

And yes, Zenyatta IS basically superman. I didn't say she was invincible but going 14 for 14 should be enough evidence that she's a superwoman.

I don't really understand what you are trying to prove here. St Trinians and Life Is Sweet are both very good horses but Zenyatta is just better than them. Period.

Dahoss9698
02-14-2010, 02:06 PM
I wouldn't necessarily say St Trinians is obviously better than Life Is Sweet. Yesterday she was because the pace scenario worked more in her favor. Remember, she also got to carry 7 less pounds than Life is Sweet, which is a little bit of an advantage.

Don't even compare the Breeders Cup pace to the Santa Maria pace. They aren't even close. They ran a 1:09.74 in the Ladies Classic compared to a 1:12.47 in the Santa Maria. Plus, the Ladies Classic was a longer race too.

I watch racing enough to know that Life Is Sweet will get beat basically every time if she sits a few lengths behind St Trinians with those soft fractions. They probably should have made an earlier move with her.

In a race with honest pace and equal weights and at 1-1/8, Life Is Sweet and St Trinians are probably equal horses. Zenyatta would dust both of them.

And yes, Zenyatta IS basically superman. I didn't say she was invincible but going 14 for 14 should be enough evidence that she's a superwoman.

I don't really understand what you are trying to prove here. St Trinians and Life Is Sweet are both very good horses but Zenyatta is just better than them. Period.

Well, you ended your post with a period, so you must be right. Do you bet?

joanied
02-14-2010, 02:50 PM
I agree that the pace was too slow for Life is Sweet...as the fractions show... Life is Sweet was also forced out just a liitle bit by St.Trinian's in the stretch just when Gomez was making his move...had to swing out a little wider...and I also think Gomez blew it...if he'd moved sooner, Life is sweet would have caught St. T at the wire...giving her 7 lbs. and coming from a 'lay-off', since she was scratched from her first race back after the BC Distaff. IMO, Life is Sweet is a better mare than St. T


I also beleive Zenyatta beats this mare:jump:

joanied
02-14-2010, 02:51 PM
I wouldn't necessarily say St Trinians is obviously better than Life Is Sweet. Yesterday she was because the pace scenario worked more in her favor. Remember, she also got to carry 7 less pounds than Life is Sweet, which is a little bit of an advantage.

Don't even compare the Breeders Cup pace to the Santa Maria pace. They aren't even close. They ran a 1:09.74 in the Ladies Classic compared to a 1:12.47 in the Santa Maria. Plus, the Ladies Classic was a longer race too.

I watch racing enough to know that Life Is Sweet will get beat basically every time if she sits a few lengths behind St Trinians with those soft fractions. They probably should have made an earlier move with her.

In a race with honest pace and equal weights and at 1-1/8, Life Is Sweet and St Trinians are probably equal horses. Zenyatta would dust both of them.

And yes, Zenyatta IS basically superman. I didn't say she was invincible but going 14 for 14 should be enough evidence that she's a superwoman.

I don't really understand what you are trying to prove here. St Trinians and Life Is Sweet are both very good horses but Zenyatta is just better than them. Period.

I forgot to include this in my reply, Z to Crush...
:ThmbUp: :ThmbUp: :ThmbUp: good post, IMO.

NTamm1215
02-14-2010, 03:08 PM
The pace is not an excuse for why Life Is Sweet lost. The pace was solid IMO.

NT

Dahoss9698
02-14-2010, 03:35 PM
I agree that the pace was too slow for Life is Sweet...as the fractions show... Life is Sweet was also forced out just a liitle bit by St.Trinian's in the stretch just when Gomez was making his move...had to swing out a little wider...and I also think Gomez blew it...if he'd moved sooner, Life is sweet would have caught St. T at the wire...giving her 7 lbs. and coming from a 'lay-off', since she was scratched from her first race back after the BC Distaff. IMO, Life is Sweet is a better mare than St. T


I also beleive Zenyatta beats this mare:jump:

Did you look at the other races yesterday to compare fractions?

So what you are saying is Life Is Sweet lost because pace was slow, Gomez blew it, 7 pounds (even though she was beat nearly 2 lengths), forced out (maybe a few inches) and moved too late? Lots of excuses for a mare that was so highly touted after her (perfect trip) BC win.

the Bid
02-14-2010, 04:03 PM
The Santa Margarita will be a hell of a race. But I doubt that St. Trinians will take to the dirt, so they probably won't even try the Apple Blossom.

Why would you think that because YOU don't think she'll "take to dirt" that THEY will probably skip the Apple Blossom. Honestly how many times will she get to run for $5m against females only? Using the typical distribution of purse moneys, 3rd would be worth $500-600k so what's not to try for. In case either of the "big 2" has a mishap or something you'd be running for some serious cash ($about $1m for 2nd) and hell, the mare has done nothing but win since she got here.

My guess is that they take on Z in the Santa Margarita and then decide if it's worth it to try again in real dirt.

What makes any horse take to dirt after a career on turf and synthetics? I can't say I know.


ETA: If the pace was too slow for Life is Sweet but not for St. Trinians doesn't that mean ST is "better" because she doesn't need all the pace set up of LIS? Being able to unleash a rally when the leaders have had it more their own way marks her as the superior runner. Is that not what Z proved when she rally into casual pace scenarios in several of her starts?

breezing
02-14-2010, 04:15 PM
http://www.thoroughbredtimes.com/racing-news/2010/February/13/St-Trinians-continues-to-impress-in-Santa-Maria.aspx

St Trinians stays hot in Santa Maria

by Tim Nichols

Since shipping to Southern California from England last March, Daniel Capen’s and Laura Chavers’ St Trinians (GB) has been dominant, posting her fourth win in as many starts in the U.S. on Saturday.

After defeating Breeders’ Cup Ladies’ Classic (G1) winner Life Is Sweet in the $250,000 Santa Maria Handicap (G2) at Santa Anita Park, St Trinians will set her sights on the queen of Southern California—undefeated two-time champion older female Zenyatta.

Trained by Mike Mitchell, the five-year-old Piccolo mare remained unbeaten in the U.S. on Saturday, easily holding off runner-up Life Is Sweet by 1¾ lengths for her first graded stakes win. St Trinians covered 1 1/16 miles under jockey Joel Rosario in 1:41.73.

“You just want your horse to be sharp and she was razor sharp,” Mitchell said. “She’s just training so well. I knew I had a good mare to beat and maybe I beat her with the pace. [St Trinians] ran like I thought she would run.”

Despite the presence of multiple Grade 1 winner Life Is Sweet, stablemate of Zenyatta, St Trinians left the gate as the 1.30-to-1 favorite and settled in fifth as longshot Once Upon A Grace (Ire) led the field through a half-mile in :48.03.

Rosario positioned St Trinians four wide entering the stretch and the mare uncorked an impressive turn of foot, inhaling Zardana (Brz) and Mushka in the process. Life Is Sweet, reserved at the back of the six-horse field by Garrett Gomez, made her patented late move in the stretch but was clearly second best.

“I wanted to keep her outside, because when those other horses stopped, I didn’t want to have to slow her down,” Rosario said. “Once she gets rolling, I don’t want to get her stopped.”

After winning three of seven starts in England, St. Trinians was purchased privately by Capen and Chavers and shipped to the U.S. She paid immediate dividends, rolling to a four-length victory in a one-mile optional claiming race in her U.S. debut on March 14 at Santa Anita. She followed with a seven-length score in a 7½-furlong allowance race at Hollywood Park in December and a 3¾-length score in the Paseana Handicap on January 9 at Santa Anita.

Now a graded stakes winner, St Trinians will try to hand Zenyatta her first defeat in the Santa Margarita Handicap (G1) on March 13. The Santa Margarita will be Zenyatta’s first race since taking the Breeders’ Cup Classic (G1) on November 7 and serve as a prep for the $5-million Apple Blossom Invitational Stakes (G1) where she is expected to meet Horse of the Year Rachel Alexandra.

“I ran against [Zenyatta] a while ago with Romance Is Diane [in the 2008 Clement L. Hirsch Handicap (G2)] and all we did was look at that big brown rear end go by us,” Mitchell said. “Nobody respects Zenyatta more than me, so if I can beat her that would be a notch in my belt buckle.”

The first starter out of the winning Classic Cliche mare Cherrycombe-Row, St Trinians improved to seven wins from 11 starts and earnings of $268,587.

oh, this will be a fun race. i don't know if they'll try her on dirt but i'll be at SA on march 13 and Oaklawn on april 9.

Zenyatta To Crush
02-14-2010, 04:22 PM
I forgot to include this in my reply, Z to Crush...
:ThmbUp: :ThmbUp: :ThmbUp: good post, IMO.
Thanks Joanied. I seem to make enemies on this board for some reason so its nice to know that there are nice people out there like yourself.

St Trinians ran another dynamite race and I was expecting her to win in this one, but its hard to say that Life Is Sweet didn't have any excuses. Zenyatta can close into paceless races, but thats only because she's unbelievable. There are many very good closers out there, like Life Is Sweet, that get beat in these types of races. St Trinians was better than Life Is Sweet in that particular race, but I think that if the conditions changed (longer distance, fair pace, equal weight), Life Is Sweet might turn the tables.

Zenyatta has carried equal, if not more weight than Life Is Sweet in each of their meetings, started slower, sat farther behind her, lost more ground than her, and STILL was able to defeat her rather easily and win paceless races. Thats not saying Life Is Sweet isn't good because she is, it just shows how great Zenyatta is.

johnhannibalsmith
02-14-2010, 04:44 PM
Thanks Joanied. I seem to make enemies on this board for some reason so its nice to know that there are nice people out there like yourself.
...
I'm trying to convince myself not to interject here, but it seems ridiculous that people can actually consider someone else an enemy when all we have to judge one another by is opinion, attitude, and perhaps, writing skills. If you and I ever engage in a heated exchange, please never assume that I consider you anything more than someone that I didn't agree with on a particular subject.

Dahoss9698
02-14-2010, 04:57 PM
Thanks Joanied. I seem to make enemies on this board for some reason so its nice to know that there are nice people out there like yourself.



So if someone agrees with you, they are nice. But if they don't, they are your enemy? Seems fair. :rolleyes:

Dahoss9698
02-14-2010, 04:59 PM
ETA: If the pace was too slow for Life is Sweet but not for St. Trinians doesn't that mean ST is "better" because she doesn't need all the pace set up of LIS? Being able to unleash a rally when the leaders have had it more their own way marks her as the superior runner. Is that not what Z proved when she rally into casual pace scenarios in several of her starts?

I'm sure this will get ignored, but it's a great point.

toussaud
02-14-2010, 05:29 PM
I've figured out what i like St. Trinians. it sounds like a really good beer.

Grits
02-14-2010, 05:38 PM
I seem to make enemies on this board for some reason so its nice to know that there are nice people out there

ZTC, don't worry yourself about "enemies". They are quite rare, and if the do exist, only superficial. We're all guilty of quick, snippy, and at times, ugly--remarks online. Keep it all in perspective.

Its the internet, and if 99.9% of these individuals were standing in front of you, myself included, never, would such behavior or actions come about. (Though I can recall a couple that were, indeed, harmful--such is the exception.) We want others to like us, to think well of us, whether we let on to that fact or not.

75% of people, generally speaking, don't mean to be rude or unkind, and the other 25% that do, don't have the guts to be--to your face, therefore, they'll do so at their keyboard.

Don't be concerned.;)

EDIT to add: I had only read your remark, and posted right away. I didn't read further noting JHS's post. He too has the right idea.

Judge Gallivan
02-14-2010, 06:05 PM
Did you look at the other races yesterday to compare fractions?

So what you are saying is Life Is Sweet lost because pace was slow, Gomez blew it, 7 pounds (even though she was beat nearly 2 lengths), forced out (maybe a few inches) and moved too late? Lots of excuses for a mare that was so highly touted after her (perfect trip) BC win.

Even by the most coservative estimates 7 pounds at 8.5 f is worth at least 1 3/4 lengths that Life Is Sweet was beaten.

Zenyatta To Crush
02-14-2010, 06:15 PM
So if someone agrees with you, they are nice. But if they don't, they are your enemy? Seems fair. :rolleyes:
No, I didn't mean it like that. Joanied has at least respected my opinions in the past even if she hasn't agreed with me. Its just that sometimes people take things too seriously on here and rip me apart if I say something they don't agree with. Most people on here are very nice and respectful, so it's just a few people I'll have to get used to I guess.

I'm obviously a huge Zenyatta fan, so its hard for me to put another horse like St. Trinians near her level. I could be wrong, it's happened before.

joanied
02-14-2010, 07:02 PM
Did you look at the other races yesterday to compare fractions?

So what you are saying is Life Is Sweet lost because pace was slow, Gomez blew it, 7 pounds (even though she was beat nearly 2 lengths), forced out (maybe a few inches) and moved too late? Lots of excuses for a mare that was so highly touted after her (perfect trip) BC win.

Nope:eek:
That 7 lbs. is about 1 1/2 lengths, I beleive.
forced out just a few inches...we know any sideways motion, having to take in or out just a few inches, can impede a horse forward motion.
IMO, Gomez waitied about 5 seconds too long to move
Being highly touted has nothing to do with it...and she deserves to be anyway!!
That's my story and I'm stickin' with it :)

joanied
02-14-2010, 07:06 PM
Originally Posted by the Bid

ETA: If the pace was too slow for Life is Sweet but not for St. Trinians doesn't that mean ST is "better" because she doesn't need all the pace set up of LIS? Being able to unleash a rally when the leaders have had it more their own way marks her as the superior runner. Is that not what Z proved when she rally into casual pace scenarios in several of her starts?


the Bid...I don't think so because Life is Sweet and St. T have different running styles...St. T seems to like laying just off the pace...and we know how LiS runs...so, IMO, can't compare them that way...
and IMO, you cvan't compare either of them to Zenyatta :)

joanied
02-14-2010, 07:08 PM
Even by the most coservative estimates 7 pounds at 8.5 f is worth at least 1 3/4 lengths that Life Is Sweet was beaten.

:bang: just saw this... after I posted about the same thing:faint:

Dahoss9698
02-14-2010, 07:30 PM
Nope:eek:
That 7 lbs. is about 1 1/2 lengths, I beleive.
forced out just a few inches...we know any sideways motion, having to take in or out just a few inches, can impede a horse forward motion.
IMO, Gomez waitied about 5 seconds too long to move
Being highly touted has nothing to do with it...and she deserves to be anyway!!
That's my story and I'm stickin' with it :)

It's a good thing you don't bet Joanied.

Dahoss9698
02-14-2010, 07:32 PM
Originally Posted by the Bid

ETA: If the pace was too slow for Life is Sweet but not for St. Trinians doesn't that mean ST is "better" because she doesn't need all the pace set up of LIS? Being able to unleash a rally when the leaders have had it more their own way marks her as the superior runner. Is that not what Z proved when she rally into casual pace scenarios in several of her starts?


the Bid...I don't think so because Life is Sweet and St. T have different running styles...St. T seems to like laying just off the pace...and we know how LiS runs...so, IMO, can't compare them that way...
and IMO, you cvan't compare either of them to Zenyatta :)

How many of St Trinians races have you actually seen?

Dahoss9698
02-14-2010, 07:36 PM
No, I didn't mean it like that. Joanied has at least respected my opinions in the past even if she hasn't agreed with me. Its just that sometimes people take things too seriously on here and rip me apart if I say something they don't agree with. Most people on here are very nice and respectful, so it's just a few people I'll have to get used to I guess.

I'm obviously a huge Zenyatta fan, so its hard for me to put another horse like St. Trinians near her level. I could be wrong, it's happened before.

Honestly, I don't see how you were ripped apart at all in this thread. Seems like people expressing opinions and if there were attacks I missed them. I think if you're going to have strong opinions, be prepared for strong opinions that disagree with you.

Dahoss9698
02-14-2010, 07:39 PM
Even by the most coservative estimates 7 pounds at 8.5 f is worth at least 1 3/4 lengths that Life Is Sweet was beaten.

Fair enough. I just think when you are at the supposed level Life Is Sweet is at, the excuses that have been used have been sort of desperate.

Dahoss9698
02-14-2010, 07:42 PM
Off topic, but not really, big run by Stardom Bound today huh? I'm not sure where they go from here, but I can't imagine retirement is far off.

Relwob Owner
02-14-2010, 07:52 PM
Off topic, but not really, big run by Stardom Bound today huh? I'm not sure where they go from here, but I can't imagine retirement is far off.


Nice that they just bought the other guy out and changed jocks....that did the trick...horse just never seemed to be the same fter being with Paasch(sp?)

Dahoss9698
02-14-2010, 07:56 PM
Nice that they just bought the other guy out and changed jocks....that did the trick...horse just never seemed to be the same fter being with Paasch(sp?)
I think you and I were discussing her last year after the Ashland. It might have been someone else, but I think it was you. She was a good 2 year old, but like many good 2 year olds, never went on. Who knows if it was trainer, or the fact the rest just caught up to her. But if she can't beat these horses, on her preferred surface where do you go from here?

Stillriledup
02-14-2010, 07:56 PM
Since her leg is crooked, that somehow means she can't win? The logic on this board gets better and better with each passing day.

Zenyatta had better bring her A game. Otherwise this board is going to have a meltdown if she loses to a horse with a crooked leg.

No, that doesn't mean she can't win. It means she isnt' going to be able to get to the elite level with her leg swinging all over the place. She's pretty good, but how long is the fun going to last? Horses with bad action like this don't last too long. I remember a horse a few years ago that Kristin Mulhall trained, a big huge striding horse who ran once every 6 months, he kept winning at high levels, i forget his name, but no horse has a windmill action like this horse did and because of it, he didn't race all that much.

The question wasn't can she win, the question was can she beat Zenyatta. She can obviously win, but if a handicapper or horse observer makes the statement that she won't be able to beat Zenyatta because of a crooked leg, why is everyone so offended by that opinion?

Dahoss9698
02-14-2010, 08:02 PM
No, that doesn't mean she can't win. It means she isnt' going to be able to get to the elite level with her leg swinging all over the place. She's pretty good, but how long is the fun going to last? Horses with bad action like this don't last too long. I remember a horse a few years ago that Kristin Mulhall trained, a big huge striding horse who ran once every 6 months, he kept winning at high levels, i forget his name, but no horse has a windmill action like this horse did and because of it, he didn't race all that much.

The question wasn't can she win, the question was can she beat Zenyatta. She can obviously win, but if a handicapper or horse observer makes the statement that she won't be able to beat Zenyatta because of a crooked leg, why is everyone so offended by that opinion?

She just beat the BC winner of her division. At worst she's probably the 3rd best filly in training in this country. Isn't that at an elite level?

picojim
02-14-2010, 08:23 PM
St Trinians to take shot at Big Cap

St Trinians, who captured the Santa Maria Handicap on Saturday, will be pointed to the Grade 1, $750,000 Santa Anita Handicap on March 6 and take on males in her next start, trainer Mike Mitchell said Sunday.

http://www.drf.com/news/article/110801.html

FenceBored
02-14-2010, 09:16 PM
St Trinians to take shot at Big Cap

St Trinians, who captured the Santa Maria Handicap on Saturday, will be pointed to the Grade 1, $750,000 Santa Anita Handicap on March 6 and take on males in her next start, trainer Mike Mitchell said Sunday.

http://www.drf.com/news/article/110801.html

Aha, so the Zenyatta Protection League has bought off St. Trinians. :liar: A clear sign she would have beat Zenyatta.

Stillriledup
02-14-2010, 09:24 PM
Aha, so the Zenyatta Protection League has bought off St. Trinians. :liar: A clear sign she would have beat Zenyatta.

:lol:

the Bid
02-14-2010, 09:34 PM
Probably a wise move. An easier spot on familiar ground against horses that Z would have crushed anyhow.

I have seen all of ST's races in the US - on video, not in person.

Dahoss9698
02-14-2010, 09:42 PM
Probably a wise move. An easier spot on familiar ground against horses that Z would have crushed anyhow.

I have seen all of ST's races in the US - on video, not in person.

Yeah, the question wasn't aimed at you, but it looks that way because of the way it was quoted.

The move does make sense. This is how bad the handicap division has become. Running against males is looked at (and rightly so) as an easier spot.

Relwob Owner
02-14-2010, 09:50 PM
I think you and I were discussing her last year after the Ashland. It might have been someone else, but I think it was you. She was a good 2 year old, but like many good 2 year olds, never went on. Who knows if it was trainer, or the fact the rest just caught up to her. But if she can't beat these horses, on her preferred surface where do you go from here?


I think we did....I really dont know. They seem to have tried everything. I am pretty low on the breeding knowledge scale so I dont know what her value is there.....on the track, I would stick her in a weak stake to get some money in and see how bad she has bottomed out....I am pretty bummed beacuse I loved her early in her career

letswastemoney
02-14-2010, 11:04 PM
Well that takes all the drama and intrigue out of the Santa Margarita lol

statik27
02-15-2010, 01:39 AM
If we were talking about any other horse, I'd say yes, St. Trinian's is the kind of filly that could beat Zenyatta. She can sit and finish impressively and is sure to have first run on any closer thats behind her and thats just what she did to Life is Sweet. But Life is Sweet is a true closer, when I say TRUE, I mean her race is live and die by the pace. 48 and change and 1:12 and change isn't ideal for a true closer.

But Zenyatta isn't a true closer. It seems like she runs her race regardless of pace, even when the fractions are slow, traffic problems, extra weight. She puts in some crazy otherworldly internal fraction and is cruising to the front at the 1/8th pole. Honestly, its not normal. But thats why Zenyatta is special.

depalma113
02-15-2010, 06:29 AM
Probably a wise move. An easier spot on familiar ground against horses that Z would have crushed anyhow.

I have seen all of ST's races in the US - on video, not in person.

Than why isn't Z running in the Big Cap?

FenceBored
02-15-2010, 07:54 AM
Than why isn't Z running in the Big Cap?

Shhh, you're not supposed to ask that question.

delayjf
02-15-2010, 10:02 AM
This is how bad the handicap division has become. Running against males is looked at (and rightly so) as an easier spot.

According to Jerry Bailey, that certainly was in the case of the Woodward this year.

Dahoss9698
02-15-2010, 10:21 AM
According to Jerry Bailey

I couldn't get past this part. I'm sure the rest was good, but when I see according to Jerry Bailey, I stop reading.

cj
02-15-2010, 01:41 PM
Since I don't really care, I'll give my unbiased view of the race on Saturday.

These are the pace and speed figures, Beyer scale, I have for each rubber route race, followed by my race shape designation:

R4: 84 86 Average
R6: 110 94 Fast
R8: 93 95 Average
R9: 106 97 Medium

So, I personally don't really see the pace as an excuse for Life Is Sweet.


Side note: I don't think there is any way 7 pounds equals 1 3/4 lengths. That is far from a conservative estimate. I've been using a pound equal to about 1/3 Beyer point for a long time and it has proven the best adjustment for me. Seven pounds would be about 2 1/3 points, which at 1 1/16 is a hair more than a length.

joanied
02-15-2010, 03:15 PM
Thanks Joanied. I seem to make enemies on this board for some reason so its nice to know that there are nice people out there like yourself.

St Trinians ran another dynamite race and I was expecting her to win in this one, but its hard to say that Life Is Sweet didn't have any excuses. Zenyatta can close into paceless races, but thats only because she's unbelievable. There are many very good closers out there, like Life Is Sweet, that get beat in these types of races. St Trinians was better than Life Is Sweet in that particular race, but I think that if the conditions changed (longer distance, fair pace, equal weight), Life Is Sweet might turn the tables.

Zenyatta has carried equal, if not more weight than Life Is Sweet in each of their meetings, started slower, sat farther behind her, lost more ground than her, and STILL was able to defeat her rather easily and win paceless races. Thats not saying Life Is Sweet isn't good because she is, it just shows how great Zenyatta is.

Thanks :blush: for the compliment, ZtoCrush...I just got back to the forum, and I see you got some nice replies about making enemies...I don't think you have any here...just that some will reply in a manner of which makes you think that...sometimes our worst enemy is ourself...but, IMO, you are one of the bright ones here and I always enjoy your posts.

:) :) :)

I already posted my thoughts on Life is Sweet...I'll just add that I look forward to her next race...and regardless of the numbers or whatever...beleive she would have won with a better trip...we'll see how St. Trinian's does in the Santa Margarita.

joanied
02-15-2010, 03:28 PM
It's a good thing you don't bet Joanied.

Why...would it upset you:D

If I wagered on races, I would handicap same as everyone else that wagers...and just FYI, when I worked at Belmont I was a handicappin' son of a gun...everyday...and did very well, thank you...won more than my fair share.

I don't wager now because the only way is online...and I have, so far, kept myself from opening an account.

Just because my take on the race is different from yours...doesn't mean I can't handicap a race...and truth be known, when it comes to the big races, my heart rules my head...but my eyes still see a race in 20-20, and I saw a couple of excuses for Life is Sweet...

I noticed that you did notice that the 7 lbs. did make a difference, and acknowledged it to the other poster that brought it up.

Have a good one:)

Judge Gallivan
02-15-2010, 05:44 PM
Since I don't really care, I'll give my unbiased view of the race on Saturday.

These are the pace and speed figures, Beyer scale, I have for each rubber route race, followed by my race shape designation:

R4: 84 86 Average
R6: 110 94 Fast
R8: 93 95 Average
R9: 106 97 Medium

So, I personally don't really see the pace as an excuse for Life Is Sweet.


Side note: I don't think there is any way 7 pounds equals 1 3/4 lengths. That is far from a conservative estimate. I've been using a pound equal to about 1/3 Beyer point for a long time and it has proven the best adjustment for me. Seven pounds would be about 2 1/3 points, which at 1 1/16 is a hair more than a length.


On Thoro-graph / Sheets scale 7 pounds at 1 1/16 equals 2.38 lengths. I thought that might be a bit excessive but according to your scale even 1.75 lengths is too much.

I do think a better horse won that race and I don't think Life Is Sweet needs an excuse. She ran second behind the race favorite.

Dahoss9698
02-15-2010, 07:51 PM
Why...would it upset you:D

If I wagered on races, I would handicap same as everyone else that wagers...and just FYI, when I worked at Belmont I was a handicappin' son of a gun...everyday...and did very well, thank you...won more than my fair share.

I don't wager now because the only way is online...and I have, so far, kept myself from opening an account.

Just because my take on the race is different from yours...doesn't mean I can't handicap a race...and truth be known, when it comes to the big races, my heart rules my head...but my eyes still see a race in 20-20, and I saw a couple of excuses for Life is Sweet...

I noticed that you did notice that the 7 lbs. did make a difference, and acknowledged it to the other poster that brought it up.

Have a good one:)

I didn't acknowledge the weight made a difference. Some people think it makes a difference, I personally don't. But, since we don't know for sure it's really the only excuse I can at least see as possible.

I noticed you managed to ignore nearly everything else that was said that negated your opinion. Including two posts by guys pretty competent in identifying pace.

The reason I made a remark about betting is I think it makes a big difference in how people look at races. I don't feel like making this post even longer than it needs to be. But, when you're betting your money you tend to be less forgiving than if you have no monetary investment in the game at the moment.

Hanover1
02-15-2010, 09:14 PM
I didn't acknowledge the weight made a difference. Some people think it makes a difference, I personally don't. But, since we don't know for sure it's really the only excuse I can at least see as possible.

I noticed you managed to ignore nearly everything else that was said that negated your opinion. Including two posts by guys pretty competent in identifying pace.

The reason I made a remark about betting is I think it makes a big difference in how people look at races. I don't feel like making this post even longer than it needs to be. But, when you're betting your money you tend to be less forgiving than if you have no monetary investment in the game at the moment.
Since weight makes no difference, just how DO they (Race Secretaries) handicap these horses??

Dahoss9698
02-15-2010, 10:41 PM
Since weight makes no difference, just how DO they (Race Secretaries) handicap these horses??

You know the answer to that.

cpitt84
02-16-2010, 01:12 AM
any way to get a video of st trinians?

couldn't find one on youtube.

Seabiscuit@AR
02-16-2010, 01:20 AM
Calracing website has free replays of all the SA races once you do a sign up

Dahoss9698
02-16-2010, 01:22 AM
any way to get a video of st trinians?

couldn't find one on youtube.

Here's the race on Saturday

onFE1_3hSQ4

You can also go to calracing.com, set up a free account and type in her name and you can view all of her races in here in the States.

cpitt84
02-16-2010, 01:47 AM
Here's the race on Saturday

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=onFE1_3hSQ4

You can also go to calracing.com, set up a free account and type in her name and you can view all of her races in here in the States.

thanks so much! I appreciate it. ;)

joanied
02-16-2010, 11:51 AM
I went to calracing, I'm already signed up there...typed in St. Trinians and got 'no results'...

what gives with that:confused:

joanied
02-16-2010, 12:01 PM
I didn't acknowledge the weight made a difference. Some people think it makes a difference, I personally don't. But, since we don't know for sure it's really the only excuse I can at least see as possible.

I noticed you managed to ignore nearly everything else that was said that negated your opinion. Including two posts by guys pretty competent in identifying pace.

The reason I made a remark about betting is I think it makes a big difference in how people look at races. I don't feel like making this post even longer than it needs to be. But, when you're betting your money you tend to be less forgiving than if you have no monetary investment in the game at the moment.


As for the weight...if it didn't make a difference, why do we have handicap and weight for age races/
I don't think that a few pounds matters, but once you start getting over 5 lbs. added, IMO, it does make a difference.

I already discussed my take on the race...why do it again...you'd just argue over it...
I think the wieght made a difference...especially coming from a lay off.
I think St. Trinians forced LiS out just enough to impede her forward motion.
I think Gomez waited about 5-6 seconds to long to move.

Yes, if you wager, excuses don't come easy...I get that...remember, I used to handicap...but just because I don't wager now, doesn't mean I make up excuses...I saw the race one way, you saw it another...

"and never the twain shall meet" :)

Judge Gallivan
02-16-2010, 12:50 PM
I went to calracing, I'm already signed up there...typed in St. Trinians and got 'no results'...

what gives with that:confused:

You have to be very precise with blanks, dots and apostrophes on that site.

I suggest you to copy her name from a trusted source (Equibase or DRF) and paste it on calracing site...

Judge Gallivan
02-16-2010, 01:11 PM
As for the weight...if it didn't make a difference, why do we have handicap and weight for age races/
I don't think that a few pounds matters, but once you start getting over 5 lbs. added, IMO, it does make a difference.




Of course the weight matters. It's just a question how much.

In F1(Formula One) racing 1 kilo(2.2 pounds) of extra fuel costs a car around 0.03 seconds per lap (depending on the configuration and the length of the track). They test thousands of laps every off season so that data is very accurate. So if 2 pounds make a measurable difference to a car with over 700 bhp it's a given it makes a difference to a horse.

It's just a matter of finding the right scale.

Linny
02-16-2010, 01:15 PM
You have to be very precise with blanks, dots and apostrophes on that site.

I suggest you to copy her name from a trusted source (Equibase or DRF) and paste it on calracing site...

She's registered at St Trinians. There is no "." after the St.

joanied
02-16-2010, 01:25 PM
You have to be very precise with blanks, dots and apostrophes on that site.

I suggest you to copy her name from a trusted source (Equibase or DRF) and paste it on calracing site...

Thank you, Judge G...it worked!!

I watched all her races...I hadn't seen them...and she IS impressive...I watched a head on...her action is scary, she also seems to throw out her left hind like she does the front...but, hasn't slowed her down!!
this one stays sound...well, sky is the limit, eh!

Still beleive Life is Sweet will beat her...I think the lay off, weight ect. played a part in her defeat...but, no doubt, St. T is fanastic...
I also looked at her pedigree...strange one, but guess a lot of the Euro breds have 'strange' pedigrees:)

Be great fun to see how St. T does against the colts in her next race.

Thanks.

Stillriledup
03-07-2010, 06:06 AM
She just beat the BC winner of her division. At worst she's probably the 3rd best filly in training in this country. Isn't that at an elite level?

No.

Tom
03-07-2010, 09:10 AM
St T looked pretty ......bad in the big Crap.
Next.

Watcher
03-07-2010, 10:23 AM
I went to calracing, I'm already signed up there...typed in St. Trinians and got 'no results'...

what gives with that:confused:

3e7-Jgqkm8w

Dahoss9698
03-07-2010, 12:36 PM
No.

It's always so easy after the race. She had a little bit of trouble early and was farther back then she probably should have been. I don't think she disgraced herself. You on the other hand constantly do.

Tom
03-07-2010, 12:38 PM
Cal Racing dosen't give the fractions on their replays?

johnhannibalsmith
03-07-2010, 12:42 PM
Cal Racing dosen't give the fractions on their replays?

I watched the live feed on TwinSpires yesterday and they never posted them until after the race on the jumbotron.

Stillriledup
03-08-2010, 05:44 AM
It's always so easy after the race. She had a little bit of trouble early and was farther back then she probably should have been. I don't think she disgraced herself. You on the other hand constantly do.

Did i not talk about her crooked leg BEFORE the race? Hmm, that's weird, i could have sworn i made a few posts in this thread that specifically discussed my opinion that she can't go to the 'highest levels' with the crooked leg. I got bashed and hammered and i sat here and took it. Now, here you come calling me names like a 5th grader instead of giving me credit and telling me i was right.

Kimsus
03-08-2010, 09:07 AM
If you considered Life Is Sweet as a viable win bet in the World Cup, I would be hesitant now. :cool:

Show Me the Wire
03-08-2010, 11:04 AM
Did i not talk about her crooked leg BEFORE the race? Hmm, that's weird, i could have sworn i made a few posts in this thread that specifically discussed my opinion that she can't go to the 'highest levels' with the crooked leg. I got bashed and hammered and i sat here and took it. Now, here you come calling me names like a 5th grader instead of giving me credit and telling me i was right.

Stillriledup:

You were correct, nice call.

Dahoss9698
03-08-2010, 11:14 AM
Did i not talk about her crooked leg BEFORE the race? Hmm, that's weird, i could have sworn i made a few posts in this thread that specifically discussed my opinion that she can't go to the 'highest levels' with the crooked leg. I got bashed and hammered and i sat here and took it. Now, here you come calling me names like a 5th grader instead of giving me credit and telling me i was right.

She was 6th in the Big Cap against males. It's not like she was up the track in a listed stake against her own sex. She was coming off a win against the defending Distaff winner.

I don't think her crooked leg is what got her beat. That's my opinion. You do, but I ask, is she not the 3rd best mare in the country right now?

A LOT of females have failed when they try males. We've been sort of spoiled the last year or so here, but I've seen some very talented females up the track when they take on males.

Dahoss9698
03-08-2010, 11:18 AM
Stillriledup:

You were correct, nice call.

:lol:

Nice call? Your insistance on trying to "one up" me since I embarrassed you for the better part of a month is flattering. Sad, like your victim role nonsense the other day, but flattering nonetheless.

Show Me the Wire
03-08-2010, 11:18 AM
She is not in the top three, because she is strictly a poly horse. Her trainer won't run her on dirt. To be a top three mare she needs to transfer her form to dirt.

She is a very good poly horse and that is all.

Dahoss9698
03-08-2010, 11:20 AM
She is not in the top three, because she is strictly a poly horse. Her trainer won't run her on dirt. To be a top three mare she needs to transfer her form to dirt.

She is a very good poly horse and that is all.

So much irony in one post I don't know where to start. But, this should be simple. No doubt you'll avoid it, but who are the top three mares in the country right now?

Show Me the Wire
03-08-2010, 11:38 AM
:lol:

Nice call? Your insistance on trying to "one up" me since I embarrassed you for the better part of a month is flattering. Sad, like your victim role nonsense the other day, but flattering nonetheless.

I will let you in on a secret, the only embarrasement I feel is I tried to discuss issues and share opinions with you. Is that your goal to embarass posters, instead of discussing issues? Of course it is, that is why you call names and exhibit infantile like behavior. I have told you numerous times I do not take you seriously, how can anyone after this above childish type post?

Well PA there is the admission from Dahoss, he has been trying to embarass me for the last month. Boy I feel silly :lol: trying to discuss topics with him.

Did you embarrass Stillriledup too by acting like a fifth grader and calling him names? Of course you did.

I will follow my responsibilities as long-term memeber here and not engage in any further posting along these lines, in order to, avoid taking the thread off-topic or igniting a flame war.

You had your say and I had mine. Now it is your choice Dahoss.

Show Me the Wire
03-08-2010, 11:43 AM
So much irony in one post I don't know where to start. But, this should be simple. No doubt you'll avoid it, but who are the top three mares in the country right now?

Where is the irony? I was echoing your established stated position and standards regarding horses that perfrom well solely on poly tracks.

Oh, I see the irony now.

born2ride
03-08-2010, 12:19 PM
She is not in the top three, because she is strictly a poly horse. Her trainer won't run her on dirt. To be a top three mare she needs to transfer her form to dirt.

She is a very good poly horse and that is all.
So if she runs on dirt and wins against good competition, then she's in the top 3? Or does she have to run multiple times on dirt? I'm just curious what your "requirements" are.

Dahoss9698
03-08-2010, 12:24 PM
I will let you in on a secret, the only embarrasement I feel is I tried to discuss issues and share opinions with you. Is that your goal to embarass posters, instead of discussing issues? Of course it is, that is why you call names and exhibit infantile like behavior. I have told you numerous times I do not take you seriously, how can anyone after this above childish type post?

Well PA there is the admission from Dahoss, he has been trying to embarass me for the last month. Boy I feel silly :lol: trying to discuss topics with him.

Did you embarrass Stillriledup too by acting like a fifth grader and calling him names? Of course you did.

I will follow my responsibilities as long-term memeber here and not engage in any further posting along these lines, in order to, avoid taking the thread off-topic or igniting a flame war.

You had your say and I had mine. Now it is your choice Dahoss.

I'm going to let you in on a little secret....anyone with a clue knows not to take you seriously. You have demonstrated zero understanding of the game. Zero. You deflect and twist arguements because you have no clue. This post is no different. You are the king of taking a statement and twisting it.

But, you are in good company with Stillriledup. I'm just surprised it took you two great racing minds so long to connect.

I will say, your victim like stance is very amusing. Very amusing. I figured you would have no answer to my simple question about who the top 3 mares are right now. You avoided that like you do every other question where you actually have to show some sense of understanding. You haven't fooled me and you're not fooling anyone with a clue.

Show Me the Wire
03-08-2010, 12:57 PM
So if she runs on dirt and wins against good competition, then she's in the top 3? Or does she have to run multiple times on dirt? I'm just curious what your "requirements" are.


My posting about performing well on poly was meant as irony.

Dahoss9698
03-08-2010, 01:18 PM
Still no answer to a simple question. Shocking....

Show Me the Wire
03-08-2010, 01:28 PM
Still no answer to a simple question. Shocking....


You want mares or a mix of filly and mares? She is not in the top three of neither. However, St Trinians she is very good horse.

Stillriledup
03-08-2010, 05:57 PM
She was 6th in the Big Cap against males. It's not like she was up the track in a listed stake against her own sex. She was coming off a win against the defending Distaff winner.

I don't think her crooked leg is what got her beat. That's my opinion. You do, but I ask, is she not the 3rd best mare in the country right now?

A LOT of females have failed when they try males. We've been sort of spoiled the last year or so here, but I've seen some very talented females up the track when they take on males.

I'd love to discuss this further with you, but only if you promise to not act like a 4th grader.

The horses in the big cap stink. They aren't running Beyer figs in the 120s like Ghostzapper and Mineshaft did. They are barely topping off 100's and are taking turns beating each other. They are not all that good (FROM A HISTORICAL STANDPOINT) and she ran up the track against them without even getting a call.

ST is talented no doubt, she's good, i'm not saying she's not. The original post was asking if she can beat Zenyatta (and also kind of asked if she's an elite horse) and we now know she is what she is.

Dahoss9698
03-08-2010, 07:54 PM
I'd love to discuss this further with you, but only if you promise to not act like a 4th grader.

The horses in the big cap stink. They aren't running Beyer figs in the 120s like Ghostzapper and Mineshaft did. They are barely topping off 100's and are taking turns beating each other. They are not all that good (FROM A HISTORICAL STANDPOINT) and she ran up the track against them without even getting a call.

ST is talented no doubt, she's good, i'm not saying she's not. The original post was asking if she can beat Zenyatta (and also kind of asked if she's an elite horse) and we now know she is what she is.

To be totally honest with you, I have no desire to have a discussion about racing with you. You have posted far too many ridiculous things for me to take anything you say seriously. Maybe that's not fair on my part, but it is what it is.

Stillriledup
03-08-2010, 08:40 PM
To be totally honest with you, I have no desire to have a discussion about racing with you. You have posted far too many ridiculous things for me to take anything you say seriously. Maybe that's not fair on my part, but it is what it is.

Thats unfortunate. Why not just not reply to any of my posts, that way, you won't have to discuss racing with me. Sound like a plan?

Dahoss9698
03-08-2010, 08:48 PM
Thats unfortunate. Why not just not reply to any of my posts, that way, you won't have to discuss racing with me. Sound like a plan?

I've got a better idea. How about you stop saying stupid stuff? Sound like a plan?

Stillriledup
03-08-2010, 09:47 PM
I've got a better idea. How about you stop saying stupid stuff? Sound like a plan?

I'll say what i say, if you think its stupid than thats your right. The plan is i'll live my life and you live yours. If you don't like a post of mine, ignore it. If you DO like a post of mine, ignore that too.

toetoe
03-08-2010, 09:56 PM
Good thing you're not a jocks agent.



Good thing you're not an annou--- ....... never mind. :blush: