Anyone been wondering about MTB?

[joanied]

http://www.sbsun.com/sports/ci_14338091

He's still resting, but will begin training in March...seems they don't want to run him too many times in 2010...4 or 5 is what the article says, probably starting at CD...his main target being the BC Classic.

I am so looking forward to seeing the little dude again.

[ExoticDancer]

BC Classic ? Based on what ? Shouldn't he win a G3 before running him in G1 company again ?

[CincyHorseplayer]

Gotta agree with Exotic Dancer,I would build his confidence back up,even if it means 100K stakes.You of all people Joanie know that horses know when they do good or bad.IMO,he did too much too quick and was pushed beyond his capacities after that.

I know you're just passing along info.Thanks!

[Relwob Owner]

Gotta agree with Exotic Dancer,I would build his confidence back up,even if it means 100K stakes.You of all people Joanie know that horses know when they do good or bad.IMO,he did too much too quick and was pushed beyond his capacities after that.

I know you're just passing along info.Thanks!


I could be wrong but I dont think she mentioned anything about a specific race, just that the overall goal is the BC Classic, which I think is probably true.

[cj]

4 or 5 race campaign? This sport is really sucky right now.

[joanied]

yes indeedy...all I am doing is passing along the info...no one has heard a word about the little bird (hey, I'm a poet:D ) so I thought it would be good to post the article...

I sure as hell didn't say anything about his 2010 campaign...or what race will be his first for the year...just that his connections are looking to point him to the BC Classic...no surprise there.

Yes, a 4 or 5 race campaign does suck, cj...needless to say, since he hasn't raced yet, that might change...who knows...it's obvious they want to race MTB into his 'senior' years, so will be cautious with him now...they did way too much with that little gelding last year and you could see him going downhill at the end of the season.

I'm just happy he'll be back, it's another familiar face to watch this year...something that we haven't had much of the past several years...and, IMO, once he gets back to the races...maybe he'll thrill us all again with another amazing race.

Anywho...that's my story and I'm stickin' to it;) :lol: ;)

[WinterTriangle]

4 or 5 race campaign? This sport is really sucky right now.

What % of horses who were in (all) the TC races are even still SOUND at this point? Actually, how many were in all 3?

What big name horses will be running more than 4-5 races this year? Rachel? Zenyatta? etc.

Get the drugs out of racing, and let the horses mature and develop.

Not directed at you CJ, just including this in my response to you:

:bang: People making fun of MTB is exactly the people with the problematic "mindset", which is bad for racing.

In 2009, MTB ran the Borderland Derby, the Sunland Derby. Then, he ran all 3 TC races: Kentucky Derby, the Preakness, the Belmont. Then, he ran the West Virginia Derby, the Goodwood, and the Breeders Cup Classic.


And came out of it SOUND, to race again.

If it's not in one's value system to appreciate this.......then those people shouldn't "complain" about 4-5 races a year, nor about how shabby our older horse division looks. Because they don't have the value system to even appreciate the stuff they say they want.

[PaceAdvantage]

What sound horse is only going to be run 4 or 5 times? Doesn't sound too SOUND to me...

He's a gelding. The only way to make money with him is to race him.

Maybe if somebody would charter those poor guys a jet, they'd be able to race him a few more times! :lol:

[letswastemoney]

He's better on dirt. Don't let his synthetic record at Woodbine fool any of you, those were slow races. His Pro Ride record at Santa Anita reflects how bad he is on synthetic racetracks.

I'm confident that he'll show he's G1 material once he gets going in the big dirt races again.

It doesn't mean he'll win, but I believe he'll be competitive.

[CincyHorseplayer]

What sound horse is only going to be run 4 or 5 times? Doesn't sound too SOUND to me...

He's a gelding. The only way to make money with him is to race him.

Maybe if somebody would charter those poor guys a jet, they'd be able to race him a few more times! :lol:


Except for the number of races it's the Perfect Drift syndrome.No balls=run continuously.

[joanied]

What sound horse is only going to be run 4 or 5 times? Doesn't sound too SOUND to me...

He's a gelding. The only way to make money with him is to race him.

Maybe if somebody would charter those poor guys a jet, they'd be able to race him a few more times! :lol:

We're getting ahead of ourselves here, dudes & dude-etts...

first of all, if he was not sound...I seriously doubt they'd run him at all...that horse gave them a dream come true...IMO, if he wasn't sound anymore, they would retire him and either let him live out his life or find another job for him...

gelding or not...aren't they all supposed to make money;) ...kidding aside, Pace...IMO, they want this little horse to be sound and competitive for another few years...and if it's their opinion that the way to do that is race him lightly, I see nothing wrong with that...hell, no one knows what he might turn into as a 5, 6 or 7 yr old...remember John Henry, Forego...ya never know!!

And...the article about his upcoming campiagn is still very fresh...he hasn't started any training as yet...and once he does start racing again, it's very possible they would end up racing him more times than 4 or 5...

:)

[WinterTriangle]

He's a gelding. The only way to make money with him is to race him.



gelding or no gelding.......

Most of the horses "on the derby trail" from 2009, and "in the TC races 2009"

......WHERE ARE THEY NOW?:lol:


MTB ran 1-2-3 on every leg of the Triple Crown. Brave little horse, has nothing to do with being a gelding.

Now that he's rested, I expect he'll surprise ya.;)

[delayjf]

First let me say that I hope I'm wrong - but I would be surprized if he ever won a G-1 race again. The rigors of the Triple crown can take a lot out of a horse and many do not make it back to the higher eschelons of racing.

[rastajenk]

If I owned Mine That Bird, I would barnstorm him around the racing nation's lesser venues and pick up appearance fees, run in some minor stakes, maybe set some track records, maybe not; he'd do more for racing and for his connections doing something like that rather than getting clobbered during a schedule of major stakes.

[Robert Goren]

First let me say that I hope I'm wrong - but I would be surprized if he ever won a G-1 race again. The rigors of the Triple crown can take a lot out of a horse and many do not make it back to the higher eschelons of racing.I was surprised that he won one and judging from the price he paid so were a lot of other people.;)

[wisconsin]

Why is Mine That Bird the horse that people love to hate?

[Bettowin]

Why is Mine That Bird the horse that people love to hate?


Because he ruined everyone's Derby bets? Sour grapes.......

[classhandicapper]

I'm very curious to see how he does this year.

I'm not 100% convinced he was total flash in the pan because I don't think he liked the synthetic track out in CA. I doubt he will develop from where he was last spring/summer, but I think he might be able to get back to that level and be a decent Grade 2/3 stakes horse against older this year.

[Tom]

I think he will be a strong factor this year.
He can run on dirt and poly (WO) and he had some nice races in the spring TC series. I think he comes back better this year.

[mountainman]

What sound horse is only going to be run 4 or 5 times? Doesn't sound too SOUND to me...

He's a gelding. The only way to make money with him is to race him.



Good post. The presumption of soundness when the horse is a household name drives me BONKERS. Soon after I had snagged MTB for our WV derby, first-hand horror stories of how the horse moved in the morning had me on pins and needles. Thus his disappointing effort came as no surprize. Nor would I hold my breath awaiting him to duplicate his Ky derby performance.

[cj]

Given a fast pace and a good ride (move late), he can contend on dirt with anyone.

[mountainman]

Given a fast pace and a good ride (move late), he can contend on dirt with anyone.

He's a one-hit-wonder. Mine that Bird was given a torrid pace in the WV derby, yet out-kicked through an incredibly slow final segment by a mediocre longshot who had raced some 12-lengths back at the half.

[OntheRail]

I knew he'd get goosed on that egg track... that it was not a good fit for him to race on. But I think he'll come back and win... and more so if they let him run his own race instead of choking the life out of him. :bang:

[cj]

He's a one-hit-wonder. Mine that Bird was given a torrid pace in the WV derby, yet out-kicked through an incredibly slow final segment by a mediocre longshot who had raced some 12-lengths back at the half.

Well, he won the Derby and was a very close second in the Preakness...isn't that two hits?

I would say he moved way too soon in the WVa race for him to be effective. I think Mike Smith blew it. Time will tell I guess, but I don't think he is done.

[samyn on the green]

He's a one-hit-wonder. Mine that Bird was given a torrid pace in the WV derby, yet out-kicked through an incredibly slow final segment by a mediocre longshot who had raced some 12-lengths back at the half.I agree, his WV Derby was the worst hang job this side of Jacques Who. Big Drama quit at the 1/4 pole and MTB never went past! He is a gold/platinum bet against when he returns.

[classhandicapper]

I thought he ran well in the Derby, Preakness (although IMHO that Beyer figure was inflated), and even ran well in the Belmont where he was moved prematurely. His form went south after that a bit, but like I said previously he may not have liked the CA synthetic and one mediocre race in WV is not enough to be certain he can't recover his best form.

[joanied]

I'll stick to my story:) ....the little gelding will do just fine...and I can't wait:jump:

[WinterTriangle]

I thought he ran well in the Derby, Preakness (although IMHO that Beyer figure was inflated), and even ran well in the Belmont where he was moved prematurely. His form went south after that a bit, but like I said previously he may not have liked the CA synthetic and one mediocre race in WV is not enough to be certain he can't recover his best form.

Thanks for bringing up the moved prematurely part in the BM. Love Calvin, but he had no other rides for that day, and spent the week and previous week playing media darling, when he should have been out on that track every morning riding it and figuring it out.

WV loss no big deal to me, he had travelled 10K miles already, run 3 triple crown races by then, including several stakes before that.

I think WV was lucky to get him to headline their derby...the tough lil' KY Derby winnner.........I'm sure it brought in business. (Previously they had Zanjero who ran TWELFTH in the KY Derby for their headliner. Or Real Dandy who runs G3 races and at Zia, or Recapturetheglory or ZFortune. Ho hum. )

I feel that any bad mouthing MTB on the part of West Virginia is like biting the hand that feeds. Because it's not a race everyone is just knocking themselves out to ship to. :rolleyes:

[mountainman]

I think WV was lucky to get him to headline their derby..

I feel that any bad mouthing MTB on the part of West Virginia is like biting the hand that feeds.

Luck is one thing, capitalizing on a rare opportunity quite another. Mtb is a gelding, so a fat purse and easier spot figured to entice his connections more than the chance at another grade-1 win. They were also reluctant (and justifiably so) to run against Rachel, who seemed pointed for Monmouth. It also happened that the gap between our race and the Travers fell a day or two wider than it does most years making the WV derby a very viable prep. To top it off, Borel figured to side with the filly, and that made Monmouth an even less attractive option for Mtb. It was a perfect storm that we saw forming early and moved to take advantage of. Had you been in my position of scouting and hustling up talent for the WV derby, you would have been way out front in recognizing the convergence of these factors, right? (rolls eyes)

And as far as 'biting the hand that feeds,' while I like and respect Mtb's connections very much, as a professional racing analyst, I'm paid to and take pride in providing objective commentary. Have you ever worked in racing? My guess would be no. (rolls eyes)

[letswastemoney]

The ironic thing about MTB prepping in the west to run in the Goodwood at Santa Anita....he would have LOVED the slop if he had stayed east.

The track was sloppy for the JCGC. Oh the opportunities missed...

[WinterTriangle]

Had you been in my position of scouting and hustling up talent for the WV derby, you would have been way out front in recognizing the convergence of these factors, right? (rolls eyes)

I made a good living making predictions and decisions in my own profession.

You know nothing about my abilities or about me :confused:

BTW, not taking anything away from you, MM.....It was a smart move, but surely there is a way to be proud of yourself without denigrating and casting aspersions on others' abilities?


as a professional racing analyst, I'm paid to and take pride in providing objective commentary. Have you ever worked in racing? My guess would be no. (rolls eyes)

I had no idea you were speaking in a "professional" capacity?

I didn't even know who you were.

This is an internet forum, so I'm expecting people are giving their opinions, which are subjective.


While not working in racing nullifies any opinions I might have in your eyes, it is not necessary to be insulting. Most people here have opinions and do not work in racing.

To rephrase, I found it somewhat conflicting to previously claim that Mine that Bird will be an important part of your legacy, while saying he's a one-hit wonder. Not sure how that makes a legacy is all, and it just didn't seem gracious.

[mountainman]

You know nothing about my abilities or about me :confused:

BTW, not taking anything away from you, MM.....It was a smart move, but surely there is a way to be proud of yourself without denigrating and casting aspersions on others' abilities?






Then surely there was a way for you to extoll Mtb's virtues without denigrating our race. It's hypocritical to lecture on civility after engendering this exchange with your sniping post.

[mountainman]

I didn't even know who you were.



To rephrase, I found it somewhat conflicting to previously claim that Mine that Bird will be an important part of your legacy, while saying he's a one-hit wonder.

The contradiction between these two sentences speaks for itself. The second renders the first less than truthful.

[Kimsus]

He's a one-hit-wonder. Mine that Bird was given a torrid pace in the WV derby, yet out-kicked through an incredibly slow final segment by a mediocre longshot who had raced some 12-lengths back at the half.

I agree with you, Mine That Bird will never win a bigger race than the derby, to me he will dissapear into the sunset like Funny Cide did or more correctly to less fanfare.

My disagreement with you is this statement you made:

Originally Posted by mountainman
as a professional racing analyst, I'm paid to and take pride in providing objective commentary. Have you ever worked in racing? My guess would be no. (rolls eyes)

Does this make anyone's opinion that hasn't worked in the industry less qualified than yours? I and others here invest a fair chunk of hard earned cash into this game, and I dare say alot of us know what we are talking about.

[mountainman]

Does this make anyone's opinion that hasn't worked in the industry less qualified than yours?

One of my jobs is to recruit horses for a grade-2 stakes, so on the 'luck' element involved in landing a Mine that Bird, yes, I probably am more qualified to comment.

[Hanover1]

I did not know landing a "one hit wonder" was considered a coup by any means. Or does it speak to the quality of all the other horses that ran that day???? Im puzzled.......

[Grits]

One hit wonder to some, but funny, he followed it pretty closely two weeks later.

This fella gets more @#$% thrown at him than any racehorse I can recall in quite some time. For that reason alone, I'd love to see him come back, and hand several their big, wide butts. Doesn't matter what day, what race, I wish him well.

This entire thread went south in a hurry. And that's a shame.

[mountainman]

I did not know landing a "one hit wonder" was considered a coup by any means. Or does it speak to the quality of all the other horses that ran that day???? Im puzzled.......

Of course landing a ky derby winner is a major coup for a track like mnr. And i'm proud to have played a part in that. It was an historic day here. I even saw it (perhaps selfishly) as my chance to give something back to the fans and facility that have given me so much.That doesn't mean i'm a Mtb groupie. We didn't recruit him because we saw him as a future Kelso(or anything less for that matter). We went after him because whatEVER the horse's level of ability, his record and aura were certain to elevate our race. And by the way, he seemed like an exceptional horse indeed at the time. But my opinion of EVERY horse is subject to develop and change WHENever, for WHATever reason i see fit. Isn't THAT the ONE sacred right of ALL handicappers???????????????????? Doesn't that come as close as anything to stating our creed?

And finally for the record, my opinion of Mtb has been equated on this thread with biting the hand that feeds me. Posters who feel that way may take satisfaction from learning that the total opposite is true. I'd heard he was a tough, nasty little dude, but i took a chance and patted his neck. There's a permanent scar now on my forearm.

[skate]

Mind my bird, quite a looong shot. A winner.

[delayjf]

Thanks for bringing up the moved prematurely part in the BM
How many times have we seen that in the Belmont?

[mountainman]

How many times have we seen that in the Belmont?

Not nearly as many times as it has been used as an excuse.

[OntheRail]

I'd heard he was a tough, nasty little dude, but i took a chance and patted his neck. There's a permanent scar now on my forearm.
Haha so he gave you his autograph did he. I know it hurts like hell... horse can't nibble. You should get that enhanced with some ink. Mine That Bird Nipped Here. :D

[cj]

Haha so he gave you his autograph did he. I know it hurts like hell... horse can't nibble. You should get that enhanced with some ink. Mine That Bird Nipped Here. :D

Then for the rest of his life he would have to keep answering that nagging question...Who?

[OntheRail]

Then for the rest of his life he would have to keep answering that nagging question...Who?
He could saddle up to the bar and say buy me a drink and I'll tell you all about him... I'm sure it would pay back at least 50-1. :lol:

[Hanover1]

Had a Fappiano colt rip me a new one once, and his claim to fame???? (A check in the NJ Derby at 60-1 odds...LOL, he was a hateful one to everyone, and dangerous....a late closer the owner wished buried alive his whole career....