WILDCAT FRANKIE

[lamboguy]

i have officially taken this horse off my kentucky derby list after he won the alowance race today in gulfstream park. he definately did not have enough late pace to finish a longer race against the very best 3 year olds.

[bisket]

i had him in a 5$ tri and 2$ exacta. he's a derby horse!!!!
theres always alot of cake to be made throwing out those aqueduct shippers at gulfstream.

[lamboguy]

i had him in a 5$ tri and 2$ exacta. he's a derby horse!!!!
he is YOUR derby horse today......he is real good, he just got a late start in his career to be good enough for a kentucky visit

[bisket]

he is YOUR derby horse today......he is real good, he just got a late start in his career to be good enough for a kentucky visit
i'm not going to leap to that just yet (my derby horse), but he's in consideration for the trifecta as it stands. there is only one runner so far thats a definate for the trifecta: lookin at lucky. frankie and uptowncharliebrown are being considered, but i'll have to wait to see them at 1 1/8 mile first.

[lamboguy]

i'm not going to leap to that just yet (my derby horse), but he's in consideration for the trifecta as it stands. there is only one runner so far thats a definate for the trifecta: lookin at lucky. frankie and uptowncharliebrown are being considered, but i'll have to wait to see them at 1 1/8 mile first.
i am going to let you in on a secret, WILDCAT FRANKIE is not going to the KENTUCKY DERBY. that much i do know. he might be going back to OCALA to grow some more and come back later.

[Show Me the Wire]

i am going to let you in on a secret, WILDCAT FRANKIE is not going to the KENTUCKY DERBY. that much i do know. he might be going back to OCALA to grow some more and come back later.


That is really not a secret. A good move though.

[bisket]

i am going to let you in on a secret, WILDCAT FRANKIE is not going to the KENTUCKY DERBY. that much i do know. he might be going back to OCALA to grow some more and come back later.
thanks. don't see that much nowadays, and you won't here a complaint from me about that. good move. he's a lucky horse.

[Jackal]

I wouldn't get to high on Looking at Lucky. Every year there is a west coast derby threat. Yet the west coast horse never wins. There is a reason for this phenomenon. There is no competition for a standout 3 yr old on the west coast.

Most of the racehorses in the US are stabled in the east. I would estimate 70% of all racehorses are stabled in the east. While only 10% of 3 yr old racehorses are stabled on the west coast. No to mention the plastic....

[tribecaagent]

Pioneerofthenile didn't exactly disgrace himself last year......

[bisket]

i was going to post the same thing tri-agent. there is little doubt in my mind as long as lucky is healthy and well he'll make it in the money at least. winning it is a decent bet also.

[tribecaagent]

Bisket,

I'm not endorsing LAL; I just think the west coast bias will be detrimental to anyones bank account.

[bisket]

Bisket,

I'm not endorsing LAL; I just think the west coast bias will be detrimental to anyones bank account.
at this point neither am i, but its a possibility. from what i've seen of lal he doesn't need to improve to be in the money. he's at that point already.

[WinterTriangle]

Frankie was never on my derby list. Ever take a look at Wildcat Heir's race record? Sprinter. Wildcat Heir was pure speed. Or his runners? like Var, Always Wildcattin, Kitty in the Bag, Wildcat Aly, etc. ... .... sprinters.

precocious speed, however, these wildcat's GET BETTER WITH AGE.

anyway, I just never saw Frankie as a triple crown distance horse. Mostly because...... he's not. ;)

[WinterTriangle]

Pioneerofthenile didn't exactly disgrace himself last year......

Because he had the goods......tons of classicity and indicators relevant to Classic performance.

PON's sire and damsire had more than adequate AWD's for TC distances. He was a dual qualifier, with an EFH of 120 and performance figures in the -60 range. And a derby winning rider/trainer.

Pioneer was in the top 5 pace parameters horses in the entire derby bunch.

Clearly, a TC contender, whether from the west coast or not.

There is no competition for a standout 3 yr old on the west coast.

Not to mention, it's hard to get to the derby when you can't even run your derby prep races due to closing the tracks for............... rain. :D

[lamboguy]

Frankie was never on my derby list. Ever take a look at Wildcat Heir's race record? Sprinter. Wildcat Heir was pure speed. Or his runners? like Var, Always Wildcattin, Kitty in the Bag, Wildcat Aly, etc. ... .... sprinters.

precocious speed, however, these wildcat's GET BETTER WITH AGE.

anyway, I just never saw Frankie as a triple crown distance horse. Mostly because...... he's not. ;)obviously you probably never liked the offspring of MR PROSPECTOR. he was a sprinter as well and produced many champions all with crooked legs. the kentucky derby is all about horses that stay sound and keep making progress in leaps and bounds.

[lamboguy]

the plans for WILDCAT FRANKIE is to maybe run in the FOUNTAIN OF YOUTH, and then head to CANADA for a $150k stake race in april

[shhail2]

yeah there is no way with that breeding that he can get a two turn mile, let alone the mile and a quarter of the derby

[WinterTriangle]

obviously you probably never liked the offspring of MR PROSPECTOR. he was a sprinter as well and produced many champions all with crooked legs. the kentucky derby is all about horses that stay sound and keep making progress in leaps and bounds.

Lambo, wasn't basing it just on breeding. Watched him race a bit now, didn't look like 2 turner classic racer.......so I went looking at breeding to make sure.

Why are you throwing out Mr. Prospector to me? How many thousands of horses have him in their sire line? And what is their win % in classic races compared to northern dancer, bold ruler, neartic, turn-to, etc?

Some win stuff, many don't. That's an awfully large category you're using

[lamboguy]

Lambo, wasn't basing it just on breeding. Watched him race a bit now, didn't look like 2 turner classic racer.......so I went looking at breeding to make sure.

Why are you throwing out Mr. Prospector to me? How many thousands of horses have him in their sire line? And what is their win % in classic races compared to northern dancer, bold ruler, neartic, turn-to, etc?

Some win stuff, many don't. That's an awfully large category you're usingmr prospector was the best sire i have ever seen. i don't know how many belmont stakes winners he had but i know there were some.

[WinterTriangle]

mr prospector was the best sire i have ever seen. i don't know how many belmont stakes winners he had but i know there were some.

Not everything gets passed on. We all have our favorite sires. Sometimes they deliver, sometimes not.

BTW, I'm not a dosage nut, but for 2-3 year olds lightly raced who are looking to get classic distance, AND have the stamina to achieve 3 Triple Crown races consequetively, I do research it.

I realize I'm working with theories, no different than "dropping in class" as a predictor.

I believe that dosage, line-breeding, X-factors, tail-female lines, etc. give an indication of traits and distance aptitude, and sometimes, temperment....I'm looking for a certain balance.

I also highly regard the records of the other offspring out of the same mom and dad ....I think it tells a lot. Because if one mating throws all sprinters, let's say 10 of them, and you are looking at one unraced, then you have to assume "ah, this will be another sprinter", unless they run out their pedigree.

I do like teens in the classic area of profile for distance races. Researching stakes winners and dosage index points in dam and sire.......and also in progeny. I think it's about 70% accurate/predictive.

I guess that's why people spend countless hours researching it, and why people pay for good nicking services. I'll tell ya, I got some great stakes horses just on the basis of WERK nick ratings and true nicks...


and love reading Ellen Parker, Lauren Stitch, etc. :jump:

[egreen]

Wildcat Frankie was not among the 366 early TC nominees, so it certainly apprears that his current connections are not looking to go down that road.

[Stevie Belmont]

Horse will never get a mile and a quarter

He will be best under a mile

[lamboguy]

Horse will never get a mile and a quarter

He will be best under a milethat is precisely the way they feel about it now. nice horse though.

[Dahoss9698]

This is a funny thread because I remember some (well, one person really) telling us the longer the better for Wildcat Frankie. What a difference a few weeks makes.

[lamboguy]

This is a funny thread because I remember some (well, one person really) telling us the longer the better for Wildcat Frankie. What a difference a few weeks makes.he was simply doing real good after his maiden race and looked like he was improving. he ran in a stake race and got beat, he then ran in the alowance race against an empty field and barely won the race. unfortunately in racing things change on quite a frequent basis. wildcat frankie did not change for the better end of the spectrum even though he won the race. i have been on the opposite side of things with funnycide, you couldn't even train that guy and he took a 360 degree turn with the cut. wildcat frankie trained just as well as funnycide and i thought he was going to make giant steps going forward. he is still a great horse, he just proved that he will not be able to run a race going a mile and a quarter in may.

[Dahoss9698]

he was simply doing real good after his maiden race and looked like he was improving. he ran in a stake race and got beat, he then ran in the alowance race against an empty field and barely won the race. unfortunately in racing things change on quite a frequent basis. wildcat frankie did not change for the better end of the spectrum even though he won the race. i have been on the opposite side of things with funnycide, you couldn't even train that guy and he took a 360 degree turn with the cut. wildcat frankie trained just as well as funnycide and i thought he was going to make giant steps going forward. he is still a great horse, he just proved that he will not be able to run a race going a mile and a quarter in may.

Like I said, what a difference a few weeks makes.

[lamboguy]

Like I said, what a difference a few weeks makes.no arguement there

[WinterTriangle]

This is a funny thread because I remember some telling us the longer the better for Wildcat Frankie.

The pattern with the public seems to be their "derby horse" is whatever 1st-out wins a maiden race precociously. Doesn't matter if the horse is a miler. After a few losses, they get off ------and do the same thing all over again with the next miler/ 1-1/16 miler.

Without ever glancing at the pedigree.

That's why some people's derby lists are 150 horses long right now, instead of 10 or 15.

You look at Seattle Slews entire profile...or Smarty Jones.....the balances of speed, stamina; indexes and profiles-----ability to carry their speed over a classic distance, and so much other stuff. I don't care how many prep races are run, if the basics aren't there, they are "probably" not going to win the TC races in May.