What are the odds Rachel and Zenyatta show up in the Apple Blossom?

[Moyers Pond]

I put Zenyatta at 1-5. She will be there.

I put Rachel at 20-1. Even with the excuse she will have after she loses that she was not fit enough, I can't see Jess Jackson taking on the best horse in the world off a seven month layoff.

Rachel can run, but she can't hide forever.

[Dahoss9698]

I'll ask you the same thing I asked Kimsus. If you reverse the roles and Zenyatta is the one coming off the 7 or 8 month layoff and Rachel had a prep race in March, would you run Zenyatta?

[FenceBored]

I put Zenyatta at 1-5. She will be there.

I put Rachel at 20-1. Even with the excuse she will have after she loses that she was not fit enough, I can't see Jess Jackson taking on the best horse in the world off a seven month layoff.

Rachel can run, but she can't hide forever.

I'm confused, how could Jess Jackson have Rachel take on the best horse in the world? Sea the Stars is retired. Do you mean Jackson should retire her, send her to Ireland and let them "get it on" as it were?

[Robert Goren]

What kind of a trainer can't get a horse that is already in light training ready in 2 months?

[Dahoss9698]

What kind of a trainer can't get a horse that is already in light training ready in 2 months?

It has nothing to do with being ready. Of course she could be ready, but at what price? Do you rush her to make a race, when you had no intentions of running in it to begin with?

That doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me. Does it to you?

[Spalding No!]

I put Zenyatta at 1-5. She will be there.

I put Rachel at 20-1. Even with the excuse she will have after she loses that she was not fit enough, I can't see Jess Jackson taking on the best horse in the world off a seven month layoff.

Rachel can run, but she can't hide forever.

Are you seriously suggesting that having a built-in excuse in the event of a loss is somehow a good reason to run a horse in a race?

You might have just topped your misogynistic thread from last week.

[OTM Al]

Far less than the odds you start yet another thread on this subject

[wisconsin]

It has nothing to do with being ready. Of course she could be ready, but at what price? Do you rush her to make a race, when you had no intentions of running in it to begin with?

That doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me. Does it to you?


She has had months to mature into a 4 year old. Horses get "cranked up" all over Europe for one race. In the old days, it was common. John Henry did it when he was 8 (see Amrican Hcp 1983) Why can't RA? She has already been in training, and would have 2 more months. Nobody questions a million dollar baby making a first start against other million dollar babbies, after only 2 months of cranking. RA is special, but it's all about the money. $5 million is a lot of money.

[Robert Goren]

It has nothing to do with being ready. Of course she could be ready, but at what price? Do you rush her to make a race, when you had no intentions of running in it to begin with?

That doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me. Does it to you?Probably not. Especially when there will be in all likelihood be similar offers later in the spring or summer. Though if I owned Z, I would demand at least as big a purse to face RA. And I sure as heck not run her against RA in the mud no matter what the purse including the Breeders Cup. Even if RA is not the best horse in training now, she is the best mudder by quite a bit.

[Spalding No!]

RA is special, but it's all about the money. $5 million is a lot of money.

It's not all about the money, though, in this instance is it?

And for the record, John Henry came back in a Grade 2, not a match-up being tentatively labeled the "Race of the Century".

Also, John Henry didn't win another race for 5 months following that effort off the extended layoff.

[Dahoss9698]

She has had months to mature into a 4 year old. Horses get "cranked up" all over Europe for one race. In the old days, it was common. John Henry did it when he was 8 (see Amrican Hcp 1983) Why can't RA? She has already been in training, and would have 2 more months. Nobody questions a million dollar baby making a first start against other million dollar babbies, after only 2 months of cranking. RA is special, but it's all about the money. $5 million is a lot of money.

Unfortunately for all of us, the days of John henry are over. The game is different. And turf racing is different also.

As of today, she's had 1 breeze since September. I'm sure she could be fit enough to make the race, but i see no reason to rush to make the race. $5 million is a lot to us. To Jess Jackson, not so much.

It could very well be the only time they meet. I'd like to see both at their best. I have strong doubts Rachel will be at her best first off the bench. Just as I would about Zenyatta.

[Cardus]

I'll ask you the same thing I asked Kimsus. If you reverse the roles and Zenyatta is the one coming off the 7 or 8 month layoff and Rachel had a prep race in March, would you run Zenyatta?

Someone has to have some onions and step up to answer your question.

The answer is No.

[tzipi]

Why don't we all just watch and see first. Who knows what's going to happen as of Feb 4th. I'd love to see it happen though :ThmbUp:

[wisconsin]

It's not all about the money, though, in this instance is it?

And for the record, John Henry came back in a Grade 2, not a match-up being tentatively labeled the "Race of the Century".

Also, John Henry didn't win another race for 5 months following that effort off the extended layoff.


It is and it is not. It definitely is about bragging rights. But this is a serious sum of money, is it not?

No, John Henry was not in the race of the century, but he was 8 years old and creaky. He just missed out of the 13 hole in the Million after that start, then went 1 1/2 on the dirt in NY. The point was that back in those days, the days we miss, this would have been a no-brainer. Now, with the wussification of the breed, it's likely not meant to be. If the horses are fit, they oughta run, but hey, that's just me.

[PhantomOnTour]

Whatsa matter? All the space on the other 300 Zen-Rachel threads all filled up?

How bout this one:

If they do run at OP what are the odds that Wallace butchers Zens name? Rachels name? Neither? Both? Both repeatedly?

I vote for both repeatedly.

[Cardus]

Whatsa matter? All the space on the other 300 Zen-Rachel threads all filled up?

How bout this one:

If they do run at OP what are the odds that Wallace butchers Zens name? Rachels name? Neither? Both? Both repeatedly?

I vote for both repeatedly.

Good strategy, poor tactics.

You should have started a thread about this. It would have morphed into a thread about track announcers.

[PhantomOnTour]

Ain't been around long but I'm trying.


PS-how do you start a new thread?

[Cardus]

Go to the main thread page for "General Racing Discussion," and find the icon for "New Thread."


You might have to type at least 10 words in this space, too.

[PhantomOnTour]

Go to the main thread page for "General Racing Discussion," and find the icon for "New Thread."


You might have to type at least 10 words in this space, too.
Thanks Cardus.

[Kimsus]

I'll ask you the same thing I asked Kimsus. If you reverse the roles and Zenyatta is the one coming off the 7 or 8 month layoff and Rachel had a prep race in March, would you run Zenyatta?

I answered your question, but you don't want to accept a fairer example to your question. Why should Zenyatta be in the position to take all the risks? Is this the only way Rachel backers or Jess Jackson will race Zenyatta? Here is my answer again, notice the boldfaced yes and my question to you.

I'll answer it this way since this is probably a closer comparison...if the roles were reversed and Zenyatta came back after a 7 month layoff at SA at 8.5 and Rachel had started prepping in March and last raced in Nov of the previous year, would you take the race? Since track and shipping are a big part of this discussion?

My answer would be yes I would accept a race off a 7 month layoff on these terms. Which is exactly the position Rachel is facing right now

[PaceAdvantage]

What makes you think he didn't read your answer, such that you had to write it twice in the same thread? (This even after CJ deleted your first attempt at duplication.)

Dahoss wasn't asking you the question again Kimsus...he was directing it at another...

[Kimsus]

What makes you think he didn't read your answer, such that you had to write it twice in the same thread? (This even after CJ deleted your first attempt at duplication.)

Dahoss wasn't asking you the question again Kimsus...he was directing it at another...

Is that what happened? Why did CJ delete my first reply? I went to edit my reply to Dahoss and it disappeared making it painstaking to post another reply, if there are dual posts I'm ok with a delete, I did post it in another thread because Dahoss keeps referring that I did not answer his questions...this way I wanted to be sure he didn't miss the reply and that I really did.

[Stillriledup]

0%

[Gorgeous George]

Due to all the arguing and squablling its got to the stage where i dont care if these two meet. However if they were to meet its only logical that they meet in the summer when both both have been prepped as their camps see fit. But i cant accept the fact that people on here are saying that a trainer cant get a horse fit in 8 weeks, nonsense. 8 weeks is ample time to tune a horse up and it is certainly not rushing a horse.

[Relwob Owner]

I put Zenyatta at 1-5. She will be there.

I put Rachel at 20-1. Even with the excuse she will have after she loses that she was not fit enough, I can't see Jess Jackson taking on the best horse in the world off a seven month layoff.

Rachel can run, but she can't hide forever.


What were the odds that someone starts another repetetive thread about this where their goal is not to have a solid discussion, but to re-hash their own view that has already been expressed a million times on the board?

About 1-9

We get it-you think Zenyatta is better and that RA ducks the competition and I am very sure you arent changing your mind.....congrats

[FenceBored]

What were the odds that someone starts another repetetive thread about this where their goal is not to have a solid discussion, but to re-hash their own view that has already been expressed a million times on the board?

About 1-9


Wait, am I in a Zenyatta-Rachel thread, or a "TVG Announcers Bad" thread, or a "takeout is too high" thread, or a bash Beyer thread, or a "synthetic tracks good/bad" thread, or a "damn those drug using trainers" thread, or a "best horse of the past" thread, or a "damn Tracknet/CDI/Magna" thread. From the first part of your reply I just couldn't tell. :confused:

[ExoticDancer]

Rachel Alexandra had the greatest year of any 3 year old filly in history yet there are some here that believe Zenyatta can beat her. Based on what? Her win over a filly 2 years ago? Not exactly a win over G1 winning males is it. :confused:

[depalma113]

I put Zenyatta at 1-5. She will be there.

I put Rachel at 20-1. Even with the excuse she will have after she loses that she was not fit enough, I can't see Jess Jackson taking on the best horse in the world off a seven month layoff.

Rachel can run, but she can't hide forever.

Considering the Apple Blossom was where Zenyatta was being pointed for her first effort on dirt in two years, it seems that 1-5 is too high, 1-20 should have been your odds.

[Oaklawn]

I will be there when they both show up! Can't wait. Keeping my fingers crossed till then.

[TJDave]

Rachel Alexandra had the greatest year of any 3 year old filly in history yet there are some here that believe Zenyatta can beat her. Based on what? Her win over a filly 2 years ago? Not exactly a win over G1 winning males is it. :confused:

I wish I had your confidence. ;)

The fact that her connections kept her in California doesn't mean Z's not a legitimate threat. I have great respect for her abilities.

[joanied]

Wait, am I in a Zenyatta-Rachel thread, or a "TVG Announcers Bad" thread, or a "takeout is too high" thread, or a bash Beyer thread, or a "synthetic tracks good/bad" thread, or a "damn those drug using trainers" thread, or a "best horse of the past" thread, or a "damn Tracknet/CDI/Magna" thread. From the first part of your reply I just couldn't tell. :confused:

:ThmbUp: :lol: :ThmbUp: being a rather organized type of person...it's driving me nuts:bang:

Hey, I know...Pace can add a sub-catagory under General Discussion and name it 'Rachel & Zenyatta only' ;)

[OTM Al]

Best idea ever!