Canadian Pol comes to US for heart surgery

[ArlJim78]

What do you do if you're the independently wealthy Premier of Newfoundland and Labrador in Canada, and a staunch defender of the vaunted socialist heathcare system in Canada, and you suddenly find yourself in need heart surgery that is not available in New Foundland?

Well naturally you get on a plane and get the hell out of Canada and check in to a US hospital in order to perhaps save your life. I do wonder though what do you tell your constituents who might be facing the same condition. "Sorry Charlie, you'll have to get in line like everyone else".

__________________________________________________ _______
Williams seeks heart surgery in U.S. because it is not available in N.L. (http://www.google.com/hostednews/canadianpress/article/ALeqM5h9Wu78oguXFeKRN0EuUC915Scusw)
By Sue Bailey (CP) – 1 hour ago

ST. JOHN'S, N.L. — Premier Danny Williams of Newfoundland and Labrador is undergoing heart surgery in the United States later this week because the treatment he is seeking was not available in his home province, his deputy premier said Tuesday.

Williams, 60, decided to go to the U.S. for surgery after weeks of consultation with his doctors, Kathy Dunderdale said. "Having the surgery done in the province was never an option," Dunderdale said.

"Obviously, it's taken some time to have the diagnosis, progress, consultation with a number of medical experts, so it has taken several weeks."

Dunderdale would not reveal what the surgery was beyond the fact that it was heart surgery. She also declined to say where and what day it will take place and whether the type of surgery Williams is having was available elsewhere in the country.

"Ultimately we have to be the gatekeepers of our own health and he has taken medical advice from a number of different sources ... He is doing what's best for him," she said.

Dunderdale said she wasn't sure if the premier was covering his own medical costs.

[Robert Goren]

The USA will take his money. It will help our trade balance. It off set some of the money sent to Canada by US citizens to buy prescription drugs.

[46zilzal]

Really had to search for this one didn't you? Newfies, and their entire ISOLATED Province are the butt of most of the jokes in this country. They were the LAST province to join the Dominion in the late 40's and are still isolated. Their economy is at the bottom of the barrel, they have a single big city, their population keeps dwindling as the fishing industry is collapsing to foreign competition. They are even in the Atlantic time zone which is, get this, an HALF an HOUR behind the country which set up the typical Newfie joke: The WORLD will end tonight at 7:00 Pm, 7:30 in Newfoundland.

TYPICALLY you clowns do not know what you are talking about as medical care here is PROVINCIALLY based with federal aided money going into it. Each PROVINCE sets their own standards, fee schedule, hospitals etc. and to state the entire country should be at all based on the joke of the country just shows what a total misunderstanding of the entire thing your position takes.

PITIFUL!

[boxcar]

"Ultimately we have to be the gatekeepers of our own health and he has taken medical advice from a number of different sources ... He is doing what's best for him," she said.

Talk about a socialist talking out of her mouth! If BO and his commie friends in congress have their way, they would be the gatekeepers of our health. They'd be calling all the shots, including taxing us into oblivion for certain services if we dared have need of them! But to the point...how could she say this with a straight face? In a socialized system, the state calls the shots, right? They set the terms of use. They provide the services, etc. Now...how come, for example, he couldn't get the necessary treatment in his province? What are the poorer people supposed to do if they were in his shoes? Roll over a die? (Wonder if they have death squads up there?) And how come, he didn't fly to another province in Canada for treatments? Why did he choose to go outside his great country Wasn't treatment available anywhere else in Canada?

Boxcar

[46zilzal]

Same thing would happen in the US. If I was covered by, lets say Humana and went to a Kaiser Hospital, I wouldn't be taken in for an operation. No different here.

OHIP is the insurance of Ontario and in BC it is MSP. INDEPENDENT of one another so people cannot just skip around the country expecting different plans to cover them

[boxcar]

Same thing would happen in the US. If I was covered by, lets say Humana and went to a Kaiser Hospital, I wouldn't be taken in for an operation. No different here.

OHIP is the insurance of Ontario and in BC it is MSP. INDEPENDENT of one another so people cannot just skip around the country expecting different plans to cover them

But that insurance up in that "isolated" province works down here in the U.S.? Really? I'd bet not! Therefore, back to square one: Why would he choose to pay OUT-OF-POCKET for his heart surgery here in the U.S. instead of getting that "excellent" Canadian care and keeping those bucks in Canada?

Boxcar

[46zilzal]

We have many CONS here, MOST all of them RICH. I treated a women who lived in Switzerland most of the year, who came back for three months JUST to keep her insurance so her FAT wallet would never have to be touched. She was not an isolated case either.

Health insurance is for two very specific situations: catastrophic illness and the NON-FAT CATS to be able to confront illness early enough in a process so that treatment can in fact work and NOT to destroy the finances of families.

Rich people, the only ones with any mobility JUMP the line up all the time and bitch about it.

[DJofSD]

zz, this is just another good example of 'do as I say not do as I do.'

[Tom]

TYPICALLY you clowns do not know what you are talking about as medical care here is PROVINCIALLY based with federal aided money going into it. Each PROVINCE sets their own standards, fee schedule, hospitals etc. and to state the entire country should be at all based on the joke of the country just shows what a total misunderstanding of the entire thing your position takes.

PITIFUL!

So then, you admit it doesn't work everywhere up there. How many people are without coverage? What percentage, we can compare that to the percentage here.

With the small number of provinces and relatively lower population numbers up there, why would you assume it would work better here with 50 states and millions more people? I think our pointing to you and saying it won't work is proven by this.

But thank you for playing and you get our home game as a parting gift.

[boxcar]

We have many CONS here, MOST all of them RICH. I treated a women who lived in Switzerland most of the year, who came back for three months JUST to keep her insurance so her FAT wallet would never have to be touched. She was not an isolated case either.

Health insurance is for two very specific situations: catastrophic illness and the NON-FAT CATS to be able to confront illness early enough in a process so that treatment can in fact work and NOT to destroy the finances of families.

Rich people, the only ones with any mobility JUMP the line up all the time and bitch about it.

And you forgot to mention another one of the "CONS", i.e. inferior health care in Canada. We mustn't forget that one, right? (I know that was just an absent-minded oversight on your part.)

So...the bottom line here is that this "rich con" believes that the American health care system must be superior to Canada's, which is why he opted to fly to this country instead of getting that "high quality" care Canadian-style. Isn't this the bottom line? With his $$ He could have gone anywhere in Canada to get treated and paid for it.

He reminds me of my buddy whose well-heeled cousin flew down from Canada to Ohio a few months ago -- also for heart surgery. What's the matter up there? Shortage of heart surgeons? Or the doctors have no heart for such surgery? :lol: :lol:

Boxcar

[BenDiesel26]

OK so its provincial. Serious question then. Couldn't he have gone to another province in Canada and just had the procedure done for free? If he couldn't, then Canada doesn't actually have universal health care for all then, right?

[46zilzal]

So...the bottom line here is that this "rich con" believes that the American health care system must be superior to Canada's, which is why he opted to fly to this country instead of getting that "high quality" care Canadian-style. Isn't this the bottom line? With his $$ He could have gone anywhere in Canada to get treated and paid for it.


Boxcar
Some of the best medical innovation of the twentieth century started right here: Banting and Best discovered Insulin, first cardiac bypass surgery in Montreal (crude, but the first), The two men considered the fathers of stem cell research were just given the Order of Ontario (along with the inventor of the Blackberry) the same night as my mother in law received it.

INFERIOR, hardly

[46zilzal]

OK so its provincial. Serious question then. Couldn't he have gone to another province in Canada and just had the procedure done for free? If he couldn't, then Canada doesn't actually have universal health care for all then, right?
OHIP (Ontario)bills independently of MSP (British Columbia)etc. There is no cross provincial insurance unless it is an emergency

[boxcar]

Some of the best medical innovation of the twentieth century started right here: Banting and Best discovered Insulin, first cardiac bypass surgery in Montreal (crude, but the first), The two men considered the fathers of stem cell research were just given the Order of Ontario (along with the inventor of the Blackberry) the same night as my mother in law received it.

INFERIOR, hardly

That's all well and good. BRAVO for all of Canada. She has a thing or two of which to be proud. :rolleyes:

But when it comes to APPLICATION of all those wonderful discoveries, it appears that Canada might resemble more of a third worldish country, doesn't it? This guy flying to the U.S. for his surgery is not an isolated incident. Many Canadians opt to come to the U.S. to receive critically important health care because, obviously, Canada just can't deliver the goods in a timely fashion!

Boxcar

[Greyfox]

As I read it this pol requires specialty care that is not available in Newfoundland.
With Newfoundland as remote as it is from mainland Canada, that is not surprising. Top specialists for his condition are not available there.

Undoubtedly there are other treatment facilities in Canada that could do the job.
However, the rich and the poor are treated equally with respect to non-emergency treatments.
There is no jumping the queue.
The only way rich Canadians can jump ahead is to leave the country.
Some come to the States, some go to India, some go to Europe.
They are prepared to pay through the nose.

[bigmack]

Could actress Natasha Richardson’s tragic death have been prevented if her skiing accident had occurred in America rather than Canada?

This is a legitimate question because of how Canadian and American medical care differ. Canadian health care de-emphasizes widespread dissemination of technology like CT scanners and quick access to specialists like neurosurgeons. While all the facts of Richardson’s medical care haven’t been released, enough is known to pose questions with profound implications for both countries.

Richardson died of an epidural hematoma, a bleeding artery between the skull and brain that compresses and ultimately causes fatal brain damage via pressure buildup. With prompt diagnosis by CT scan, and surgery to drain the blood, most patients survive. Could Richardson have received this care? Where it happened in Canada, no. In many American resorts, yes.

http://archives.chicagotribune.com/2009/mar/25/health/chi-oped0325natashamar25

[Greyfox]

How many towns of 9,000 here have neurological services and CT scans?

From the article above:

Sainte-Agathe-des-Monts is a town of 9,000 people. Its hospital doesn’t have specialized neurology or trauma services.

[bigmack]

How many towns of 9,000 here have neurological services and CT scans?

From the article above:

Sainte-Agathe-des-Monts is a town of 9,000 people. Its hospital doesn’t have specialized neurology or trauma services.
How many towns don't have helicopter service to trauma centers?

Sainte-Agathe-des-Monts is a town of 9,000 people. Its hospital doesn’t have specialized neurology or trauma services. It hasn’t been reported whether the hospital has a CT scanner; CT scanners are less common in Canada. Compounding the problem, Quebec has no helicopter services to trauma centers in Montreal. Richardson was transferred by ambulance to Hospital du Sacre-Coeur, a trauma center 50 miles away in Montreal—a further delay of over an hour.

Because she didn’t arrive at a facility capable of treatment (with the diagnosis perhaps still unknown) until six hours after the injury, in all likelihood by that time the pressure buildup was fatal.

[Greyfox]

Quebec has several air ambulance services according to what's listed at:
http://local.canadaspace.com/listings/quebec/quebec/air_ambulance_service/

Why one wasn't called is another question?
Even then, we can't say that would have saved Richardson's life.
Let's not forget that she did refuse treatment from first responders.

[wisconsin]

OHIP (Ontario)bills independently of MSP (British Columbia)etc. There is no cross provincial insurance unless it is an emergency

I would have guessed that open heart surgery falls under this catagory.

[DeanT]

I guess this is news because it is happening near the health care debate down there........... but this is nothing new. One of our Prime Ministers, while in office, went to the US for treatment. A former premier of Quebec did as well.

You will not meet a Canadian who does not know someone that has not gone down there for treatment. Recently a friend of mine went because he has to wait over a year up here for something. He was seen and corrected by a US doctor in less than one week.

[hcap]

http://www.health-tourism.com/medical-tourism/usa-research/

The medical tourism industry has seen a major increase in the past decade.

Researchers have confirmed that:

* In 2006, about 150,000 American citizens traveled to Latin America and Asia for medical treatment.
* In 2007, the figure increased to approximately 300,000.
* By 2010, experts say the number can increase to over 1 million.


American patients are opting to undergo medical treatment abroad for procedures such as: face lifts, heart bypasses and fertility treatments. For many people who require medical treatment, the last thing they want to do is travel. However, due to the high cost of medical treatment in the USA, many American patients are going abroad for medical treatments. Their purpose is to save 50% to 80% on medical treatment conducted by doctors who are often trained in the United States, at hospitals that maintain the precise standards of patient care and safety.

http://articles.latimes.com/2008/nov/02/business/fi-cover2

Americans have long been willing to leave the country for bargain face-lifts and cut-rate dentistry. But now the availability of top-notch medical services at low cost is enticing a growing number of U.S. patients to developing nations for more sophisticated procedures. Most, like Dijak, are obtaining elective surgeries for ailments that aren't life-threatening. Increasingly, they are seeking treatment for more serious conditions, including heart maladies and cancer.

Last year, 750,000 Americans traveled abroad for care, according to estimates by the Deloitte Center for Health Solutions, a Washington-based research center that's part of the consulting firm Deloitte & Touche. Other analysts say the numbers are lower. But hardly anyone disputes that medical care, once a highly local business, is going global like never before. By 2010, Deloitte projects, 6 million consumers a year will venture outside the United States for medical treatment.

[46zilzal]

Could actress Natasha Richardson’s tragic death have been prevented if her skiing accident had occurred in America rather than Canada?


That is lawyer talk talking

[johnhannibalsmith]

American patients are opting to undergo medical treatment abroad for procedures such as: face lifts...

You have to be one ugly SOB to travel abroad due to your dire financial situation to get your droopy face fixed.

[46zilzal]

I would have guessed that open heart surgery falls under this category.
No not always. It depends on the ongoing assessment of the condition. THEY are all different.

[46zilzal]

http://www.health-tourism.com/medical-tourism/usa-research/

The medical tourism industry has seen a major increase in the past decade.

Researchers have confirmed that:

* In 2006, about 150,000 American citizens traveled to Latin America and Asia for medical treatment.
* In 2007, the figure increased to approximately 300,000.
* By 2010, experts say the number can increase to over 1 million.


American patients are opting to undergo medical treatment abroad for procedures such as: face lifts, heart bypasses and fertility treatments. For many people who require medical treatment, the last thing they want to do is travel. However, due to the high cost of medical treatment in the USA, many American patients are going abroad for medical treatments.

60 Minutes had a section on just this and growing as there are now travel agencies that sell escape/medical packages. In Europe, there were vacations to Poland for relaxation and CHEAP dental care that was available.

[BenDiesel26]

Uh, heart bypass is one thing. Go somewhere else to get it cheaper, stay here if you want the best and you want it now. But face lifts and fertility treatments? You think these will be covered under a universal plan? 46, does your plan cover face lifts? Sorry, but that's not exactly a necessity.

[Tom]

Only covered if your face is up your butt, they pay to have it lifted out.

[hcap]

Uh, heart bypass is one thing. Go somewhere else to get it cheaper, stay here if you want the best and you want it now. But face lifts and fertility treatments? You think these will be covered under a universal plan? 46, does your plan cover face lifts? Sorry, but that's not exactly a necessity.Problem is the best treatments are also very expensive. Universal health care is more than catastrophic stratospheric high tech treatments that only top money can buy. It is also more importantly care for chronic and basic care that consumes the 95+% of most of the costs of any health system. So although this particular treatment was sought out in the States, most of the Canadian populace can take care of most of their needs at home.

So our Canadian minister did quickly what he could afford. And why 300,000 Americans traveled abroad in 2007 to do what they could afford.

[Tom]

So the system works.
We do not need the BS package the libs are trying to pawn off on us, as the majority of American have already figured out. You and 46 seem to be lagging behind the class. Next time you need a doctor, call Michael Moore.

[boxcar]

No not always. It depends on the ongoing assessment of the condition. THEY are all different.

Well...you know what...they may all be different, but when it involves my health, there is nothing more important. "Different" doesn't enter into my decision-making process. Therefore, if I want to get a procedure performed and I want that done in a timely fashion, why shouldn't I have the right to make that decision and to act accordingly on it? Conversely, why should choices be forced upon me that I don't want, such as paying for markedly inferior government-controlled health care?

Boxcar

[dartman51]

Only covered if your face is up your butt, they pay to have it lifted out.
:lol: :lol:

[46zilzal]

Well...you know what...they may all be different, but when it involves my health, there is nothing more important. "Different" doesn't enter into my decision-making process. Therefore, if I want to get a procedure performed and I want that done in a timely fashion, why shouldn't I have the right to make that decision and to act accordingly on it? Conversely, why should choices be forced upon me that I don't want, such as paying for markedly inferior government-controlled health care?

TRIAGE, it is NO different in ANY medical institution the WORLD OVER.

No one EVER forces treatment on anyone. I once treated a prostitute in the ER, who had cut her median nerve in a knife fight. Myself, along with three others, tried, unsuccessfully, to explain that if her nerve were not stitched back together within 6 to 8 hours it could NEVER function again. We had social services try to explain...NO GO and she left with only the skin and deep tissues sutured. We tried to rationally explain that the forearm flexors would not longer work if she left without surgery to fix it. She left without the reattachment of that nerve.

That was just one case in many many.