Open Source Software

[Dave Schwartz]

I have watched with both interest and enthusiasm the way our community has embraced Handiman's efforts in the "open source" arena.

(I am still not quite sure what Doug's relationship to this project is - perhaps someone could explain it to me.)


I have a couple of questions for the programmer(s) and the users.

First, is it really "open source?" That is, do you actually allow users to download the raw code?

If they download the raw code and make changes, are the changes then uploaded and made part of the project?

Do you have any plans to monetize the project or is it simply a "labor of love?"



BTW, I must congratulate you on both your effort and your dedication.


Kind Regards,
Dave Schwartz

[Handiman]

First of all, Doug and his wife are the little creatures parents. There would be no Handifast if it wasn't for Doug. And as it stands right now, the Handi multi-track version would not be possible if it wasn't for HeadHawg.

Yes the raw code is available to anyone who wants it. I have sent it out to several people. One guy had me send it to his programmer so he could have it tweaked to use a different file source.

If changes are made then that new version is made available to whom ever wants it.

As for monetizing it, Doug has no intention of doing it and neither do I. I'm pretty sure HeadHawg has no desire to do it either. As far as I know, it will remain a labor of Love. And where it ends up who knows. There is no end game in sight actually. It will become whatever anyone wants it to become, depending on the requirements of the coding and my or anyone else who might want to code it, level of programming ability.

Handi :)

[Dave Schwartz]

well, then, I certainly owe Doug an apology for constantly ignoring his efforts. Sorry, Doug.

Keep up the good work, guys.


Have you guys discussed any long-term plans for the direction of the program?

[douglasw32]

No problem =)

The reason I did it has had the desired outcome.

The history to it may bore some but I love telling it.

Me and a buddy of mine have been handicapping horses for about 20 years together.

5 years ago I met my wife and her 2 kids, we now have 4 great children, she had gone to OTB with her grandfather way back when at the ripe age of 10, I never had the chance to meet the guy but I wish I had.

She had never bet a pony in her life until we went to Saratoga one day.

I had this great program I had written for the occasion that I had spent about 10 years tweaking, short story, her beginners luck handed me my A$$

We had a 3 hour drive home in front of us, with a few tired toddlers and I started asking (making) her go through each race that she had picked correctly, 6 of them ! and telling me what she "SAW"

I quickly realized it was mere LUCK and dismissed it.

Then we went into the Breeders cup challenge (the 3 of us) two "Veterans" and a NUBE.

Guess what, week in and week out we had are A$$'s handed to us (AGAIN)
so again, I asked, what are you "seeing"

Same stuff rolled out as before, so I started to take notice, actually kept a spreadsheet on what her brain was doing...Speed handicapping would best sum it up, but with the twist of "How" she looked at it...

When I beat her I kept track of "what" Beat her, did she ignore Distance, Pedigree, Class, EP,LP etc...

Pretty soon I had built a profile of what to add to her nonsense, and started for the first time hitting winners, and not just favorites... so I started reprogramming my baby with her brain.

That is what we have now.... she still picks them on the weekends with me "her way" only to have me pull up the program and have the same selection in the top 2 almost every time.

What she was doing was averaging the most recent speeds, tossing any that looked "out of sort" (I am still not sure wtf that means) and coming up with consistent speed rated horses, I threw in my FORM factors (mainly what W.Scott has in his books, modified a bit) and I started adjusting the speeds with form (Form Adjusted Speed Figures)

Anyway, when it finally kept coming up with good winners, a fair amount of time in the top 3 I could not get any further, I could not break through to the top 2 or one (the black box rosetta stone I felt may be within reach, lol)

So I decided that since I had picked up most of my programming asking questions on this forum (I used to only program an access database, then wanted a standalone exe) I would give something back in the shape of my programming for anyone who might push it further.

And push it they did !

My Buddy- well he still uses the DRF and a pen, and we still hand him his you know what on a regular basis.

[headhawg]

As for monetizing it, Doug has no intention of doing it and neither do I. I'm pretty sure HeadHawg has no desire to do it either. As far as I know, it will remain a labor of Love. And where it ends up who knows.It has been completely a labor of love for me. I did not expect to get involved with the project as much as I did but once I started there was a lot of satisfaction, mainly because of all the positive feedback. For sure, most of the credit needs to go to Doug and Handi.

First, is it really "open source?" That is, do you actually allow users to download the raw code?

If they download the raw code and make changes, are the changes then uploaded and made part of the project?I am not sure how many people have the source. I have given it to a couple of people but only the (original) three have actually contributed to the code which is somewhat disconcerting. I would love to add a few more things and I probably will, but certain things I won't add as I would consider them proprietary. Alas, one of the problems with open source and the pari-mutuel system. (Although frankly I am sure that most people have discounted or dismissed the usefulness of Handifast so maybe it's not an issue.)

Handifast coding has also gotten me to revive a homegrown software project that I started a few years ago so there is a side benefit for me. Handiman has taught me a few coding tricks, and solving some issues in Handifast has certainly improved my programming skills. I don't think that I would attempt to sell my program once finished but I never say never. ;)

[newtothegame]

It has been completely a labor of love for me. I did not expect to get involved with the project as much as I did but once I started there was a lot of satisfaction, mainly because of all the positive feedback. For sure, most of the credit needs to go to Doug and Handi.

I am not sure how many people have the source. I have given it to a couple of people but only the (original) three have actually contributed to the code which is somewhat disconcerting. I would love to add a few more things and I probably will, but certain things I won't add as I would consider them proprietary. Alas, one of the problems with open source and the pari-mutuel system. (Although frankly I am sure that most people have discounted or dismissed the usefulness of Handifast so maybe it's not an issue.)

Handifast coding has also gotten me to revive a homegrown software project that I started a few years ago so there is a side benefit for me. Handiman has taught me a few coding tricks, and solving some issues in Handifast has certainly improved my programming skills. I don't think that I would attempt to sell my program once finished but I never say never. ;)

Hawg....may I shoot you a PM?

[headhawg]

Sure, nttg.

[Dave Schwartz]

Tell me... what language is the software written in?

[Handiman]

I believe Doug did his in Visual Basic. I took that code and switched it over to Liberty Basic. That is what Handifast multi track 6 is written in, but I believe Doug still does his stuff in VB.

Handi :)

[Dave Schwartz]

VB.net or VB6?

Dave

[headhawg]

Doug sent me his source a while back and it looks like VB6 to me. He will have to confirm that.

[Dave Schwartz]

If YOU were using vb.net, you'd know.

[douglasw32]

It is the outdated 6...
but my code is still based off what head and handi have and that would be the most up to date.

So it is "officially" liberty basic.

[togatrigger]

Is there a repository of the code base set up?

I would love to contribute, but I had enough of writing VB many years ago; I had a job at Intel Corp programming ASP and VB... it was hell; you're a better man then me.

[thorobasePA]

code.google.com (subversion) or www.github.com (Git) would be my recommendations for free source code hosting

[LottaKash]

To all the collaborators of Handifast....Fascinating journey people, and I am always watching with interest & enthusiasm.....:ThmbUp:

best,

[togatrigger]

What is the status on the repository? Am I to assume there are no plans to set one up? If not, is there anything I can do to help that become a reality?

Thanks

[Niko]

No problem =)

The reason I did it has had the desired outcome.

The history to it may bore some but I love telling it.

Me and a buddy of mine have been handicapping horses for about 20 years together.

5 years ago I met my wife and her 2 kids, we now have 4 great children, she had gone to OTB with her grandfather way back when at the ripe age of 10, I never had the chance to meet the guy but I wish I had.

She had never bet a pony in her life until we went to Saratoga one day.

I had this great program I had written for the occasion that I had spent about 10 years tweaking, short story, her beginners luck handed me my A$$

We had a 3 hour drive home in front of us, with a few tired toddlers and I started asking (making) her go through each race that she had picked correctly, 6 of them ! and telling me what she "SAW"

I quickly realized it was mere LUCK and dismissed it.

Then we went into the Breeders cup challenge (the 3 of us) two "Veterans" and a NUBE.

Guess what, week in and week out we had are A$$'s handed to us (AGAIN)
so again, I asked, what are you "seeing"

Same stuff rolled out as before, so I started to take notice, actually kept a spreadsheet on what her brain was doing...Speed handicapping would best sum it up, but with the twist of "How" she looked at it...

When I beat her I kept track of "what" Beat her, did she ignore Distance, Pedigree, Class, EP,LP etc...

Pretty soon I had built a profile of what to add to her nonsense, and started for the first time hitting winners, and not just favorites... so I started reprogramming my baby with her brain.

That is what we have now.... she still picks them on the weekends with me "her way" only to have me pull up the program and have the same selection in the top 2 almost every time.

What she was doing was averaging the most recent speeds, tossing any that looked "out of sort" (I am still not sure wtf that means) and coming up with consistent speed rated horses, I threw in my FORM factors (mainly what W.Scott has in his books, modified a bit) and I started adjusting the speeds with form (Form Adjusted Speed Figures)

Anyway, when it finally kept coming up with good winners, a fair amount of time in the top 3 I could not get any further, I could not break through to the top 2 or one (the black box rosetta stone I felt may be within reach, lol)

So I decided that since I had picked up most of my programming asking questions on this forum (I used to only program an access database, then wanted a standalone exe) I would give something back in the shape of my programming for anyone who might push it further.

And push it they did !

My Buddy- well he still uses the DRF and a pen, and we still hand him his you know what on a regular basis.

Interesting approach, the game starts simple-gets complex and then gets simple again.

[douglasw32]

I am trying to gather all the code for the repository...

Head and handi please send yours to me... I can post all of it up for others to develop and add to the repository

[Handiman]

You want me to send you a suppository? I don't know if I can do that. :lol:


Ok I will try. I'll get it off to you by tomorrow.

Handi :)

[togatrigger]

awesome. thanks a lot guys.

[Capper Al]

If it's open source code where can we get a copy of it? Thanks

[harntrox]

http://tortoisesvn.net/

What i used for videogames for 5 years. Absolutely the best, easiest to understand. If this is what google is using, you may be able to use the awesome SVN interface right out of the box to connect to Google subversion.

In theory all subversion can be converted/connected to by most clients with just a command line and no graphical interface, but its so awesome whats the point.

[douglasw32]

http://tortoisesvn.net/

What i used for videogames for 5 years. Absolutely the best, easiest to understand. If this is what google is using, you may be able to use the awesome SVN interface right out of the box to connect to Google subversion.

In theory all subversion can be converted/connected to by most clients with just a command line and no graphical interface, but its so awesome whats the point.


That is an excellent resource...thanks !

[togatrigger]

google code would definitly be a good place to start, and Tortoise GUI front ends for the variety of repos is nice. (they have Mercurial, GIT, CVS, and SVN front ends as well).

With the code out there, gaining exposure, you should start getting people who want to contribute. At this point you might find setting up a private repo with a little more punch then the antiquated SVN set up. I use mercurial for contributers then google code to distribute the latest builds.

[DJofSD]

No problem =)

The reason I did it has had the desired outcome.

The history to it may bore some but I love telling it.

Me and a buddy of mine have been handicapping horses for about 20 years together.

5 years ago I met my wife and her 2 kids, we now have 4 great children, she had gone to OTB with her grandfather way back when at the ripe age of 10, I never had the chance to meet the guy but I wish I had.

She had never bet a pony in her life until we went to Saratoga one day.

I had this great program I had written for the occasion that I had spent about 10 years tweaking, short story, her beginners luck handed me my A$$

We had a 3 hour drive home in front of us, with a few tired toddlers and I started asking (making) her go through each race that she had picked correctly, 6 of them ! and telling me what she "SAW"

I quickly realized it was mere LUCK and dismissed it.

Then we went into the Breeders cup challenge (the 3 of us) two "Veterans" and a NUBE.

Guess what, week in and week out we had are A$$'s handed to us (AGAIN)
so again, I asked, what are you "seeing"

Same stuff rolled out as before, so I started to take notice, actually kept a spreadsheet on what her brain was doing...Speed handicapping would best sum it up, but with the twist of "How" she looked at it...

When I beat her I kept track of "what" Beat her, did she ignore Distance, Pedigree, Class, EP,LP etc...

Pretty soon I had built a profile of what to add to her nonsense, and started for the first time hitting winners, and not just favorites... so I started reprogramming my baby with her brain.

That is what we have now.... she still picks them on the weekends with me "her way" only to have me pull up the program and have the same selection in the top 2 almost every time.

What she was doing was averaging the most recent speeds, tossing any that looked "out of sort" (I am still not sure wtf that means) and coming up with consistent speed rated horses, I threw in my FORM factors (mainly what W.Scott has in his books, modified a bit) and I started adjusting the speeds with form (Form Adjusted Speed Figures)

Anyway, when it finally kept coming up with good winners, a fair amount of time in the top 3 I could not get any further, I could not break through to the top 2 or one (the black box rosetta stone I felt may be within reach, lol)

So I decided that since I had picked up most of my programming asking questions on this forum (I used to only program an access database, then wanted a standalone exe) I would give something back in the shape of my programming for anyone who might push it further.

And push it they did !

My Buddy- well he still uses the DRF and a pen, and we still hand him his you know what on a regular basis.

This is a great story. I think this is the kind of thing that might appeal to the younger crowd, i.e. new players.

[DJofSD]

I think it is important to protect the open source nature of the efforts being made here. The last thing you need is for some greedy b*stard co-opting your efforts by stealing it and claiming it as his own. See http://www.ask.com/wiki/Open_source_license for some ideas about how to make the code/project available for all comers but not let some one assert ownership down the road. I bring this up b/c in my mind this is not any different than what happened with the video archive that was on YouTube of lots of T'bred races that was discussed in the recent PA thread about PartyFavors (?).