Does BO have it in for Americans?

[boxcar]

Some here have questioned whether or not BO has it in for New Yorkers. I up the ante by including all Americans.

El Rushbo just played a long clip of Robert Gibbs publicly judging and trying SKM and crew on some news network. Of course, this isn't the first time this has happened. Public pronouncements of guilt by WH representatives have happened on several other occasions. These public pronouncements, of course, have to be grounded by the WH in the presumption of guilt. And this raises some serious questions -- legal and otherwise.

Why is this administration, through various spokespersons, making these kinds of pre-trial public statements? Are they utterly stupid? Isn't BO supposed to be this brilliant, hotshot constitutional lawyer? Does he not know that in the American criminal justice system defendants are presumed innocent until proven guilty? Does not this "brilliant scholar" know that such public pronouncements of guilt, judgment and sentencing by anyone other than the prosecutor could be grounds for dismissal of charges?

Rush said we can only conclude two things here: The administration is utterly stupid or these public pronouncements are, in fact, designed to get the charges dismissed when the defendants' criminal trial lawyers raise objections to the impossibility of their clients getting a fair trial anywhere in this country.

I lean heavily toward the latter as the reason for these kinds of pre-trial statements. Are we supposed to believe that BO is stupid enough to want it both ways? He wants to assign constitutional rights to the defendants in one breath, but in the next fly in the face of those rights by abrogating the fundamental right of the presumption of innocence under the American criminal justice system? This is positively mind-boggling.

Rush put a call out there to the "legal community" asking lawyers how cannot the charges be dismissed against these terrorists, since they have been given all the constitutional rights we Americans have under the criminal justice system? Is the WH fix in for the outcome of this trial?

Boxcar

[jognlope]

He doesn't have it in for us NYers who need help with heat bills, appropriated a big bunch of cash to NY HEAP program and it saved me last month.

[NJ Stinks]

He doesn't have it in for us NYers who need help with heat bills, appropriated a big bunch of cash to NY HEAP program and it saved me last month.

Boxcar and Rush don't give a damn about your heating bills, Jognlope. Although Boxcar might change his mind if Rush expressed concern.

[boxcar]

Boxcar and Rush don't give a damn about your heating bills, Jognlope. Although Boxcar might change his mind if Rush expressed concern.

If you care so much, NJ, don't hijack this thread, which is about the KSM trial and this administration's conflicting signals that it's sending regarding its decision to try these lowlifes as mere common criminals in the U.S. criminal justice system. Start one of your own about J's heating woes if you're so concerned. And if you're really worried about him, cut him a check that won't bounce and send him some more money to show your deep, personal support.

Boxcar

[Warren Henry]

He doesn't have it in for us NYers who need help with heat bills, appropriated a big bunch of cash to NY HEAP program and it saved me last month.
How someone who has a computer and internet access - plus the time to post on a horse racing site should have government (read taxpayer) help in paying their heating bills. :confused:

Perhaps someone has their priorities screwed up. :rolleyes:

JMHO

[riskman]

How someone who has a computer and internet access - plus the time to post on a horse racing site should have government (read taxpayer) help in paying their heating bills. :confused:

Perhaps someone has their priorities screwed up. :rolleyes:

JMHO

This opinion is not humble, nor is it any of your business why the poster needed help. There is a time and a place for everything, a PM might have been more appropriate. I know you conservatives believe in giving to charity so send a donation to Gov. Paterson and I am sure it will find its way to help a family with a heat emergency in this very cold winter.

[newtothegame]

If you care so much, NJ, don't hijack this thread, which is about the KSM trial and this administration's conflicting signals that it's sending regarding its decision to try these lowlifes as mere common criminals in the U.S. criminal justice system. Start one of your own about J's heating woes if you're so concerned. And if you're really worried about him, cut him a check that won't bounce and send him some more money to show your deep, personal support.

Boxcar

Where's a lib with that redistribution help that they so much preach about??? Gee jog, I thought for sure ...wait wait,.....I am sure NJ or Mosty...cap...one of them will be right along to take care of those heating bills.

[newtothegame]

This opinion is not humble, nor is it any of your business why the poster needed help. There is a time and a place for everything, a PM might have been more appropriate. I know you conservatives believe in giving to charity so send a donation to Gov. Paterson and I am sure it will find its way to help a family with a heat emergency in this very cold winter.

Or a lib who wants redistribution can send a check from their account......;)

[boxcar]

This opinion is not humble, nor is it any of your business why the poster needed help. There is a time and a place for everything, a PM might have been more appropriate. I know you conservatives believe in giving to charity so send a donation to Gov. Paterson and I am sure it will find its way to help a family with a heat emergency in this very cold winter.

How can you be so sure, sir? You know Paterson personally, do you? I betcha a check sent to J's mailbox would be a lot surer bet. And I just know NJ is taking care of business... :rolleyes:

Boxcar

[Tom]

This opinion is not humble, nor is it any of your business why the poster needed help.

When the "help" is taken from the fruits of our labor, is most certainly IS our business.

[Valuist]

He doesn't have it in for us NYers who need help with heat bills, appropriated a big bunch of cash to NY HEAP program and it saved me last month.

How big do you think those heating bills will be if cap and trade were to get passed? Look for them to triple. Then tell me what you think of Obama.

[NJ Stinks]

OK, class. What have we learned so far in Brother Boxcar's thread?

1. Brother Boxcar claims Rush suggested that Obama wants the charges against KSM dismissed because Obama apparently doesn't like Americans.

2. Jognlope cites an example where Obama showed he does like Americans.

3. I suggest that Rush could change Brother Boxcar's mind on just about anything.

4. Brother Boxcar claims this thread has been hijacked! It's no longer about Obama having it in for Americans apparently. And Brother Boxcar suggests I write Jognlope a check for a bill that's already been paid.

5. Warren wonders why anybody in need of government assistance to pay their heating bill can even afford to log on to the Internet. I always wondered the same thing about the 6M recipients of Pell Grants and all their family members. How dare any member of those 6M families log on! :mad: Am I right Warren? :confused:

6. Riskman suggests Warren use the PM tool.

7. Newtothegame misses the fact that money has already been redistributed.

8. Tom feels entitled. How's it feel, Tom? :p

9. Valuist plays the fear card like we're playing pinochle and Valuist just named the trump suit.

Did I miss anything? Get anything wrong? :confused:

[Tom]

8. Tom feels entitled. How's it feel, Tom? images/UBGX/04.gif

I am entitled.
Entitled to earn as much as I care to work hard to get.
Entitled to get rich through hard work and dedication.
Entitled to make personal choices about how I spend my money.
Entitles to pay the piper when I make the wrong choices.
Entitled to fail.

[boxcar]

Did I miss anything? Get anything wrong? :confused:

Dear Confused:

You went wrong this morning when you chose to get up from your bed and pound out nonsense on your keyboard, which has rivaled that of inebriated chimpanzees.

Sincerely yours,
Boxcar

P.S. (I apologize to all chimps and animal rights activists for insulting all cute, ltittle chimps.)

[jognlope]

I work 6 days a week doing medical transcription for an agency. I type Saratoga and Glens Falls Hospital. Recently there was a joint commission review, to boss hired extra girls and they took most of the work, almost people were hogging the work for Christmas money, so there was a shortage of work. My heating bills run as high as $550 in the winter. I have been working since I was 20, started working as editor of a company magazine (BCBS in NC) 2 weeks after I graduated in journism from VCU in Richmond, VA. I have had may 2 or 3 periods of unemployment in the 34 years since of about 2 months each. Plus I had the flu and couldn't work as much due to that, when the heating bill came that I got HEAP help with.

[newtothegame]

NJ....I am not at all confused...I am fully aware of tax ramifications and how that money has "already" been spent. I don't want to spend anymore for your liberal, want to save the world, programs. There is no way, you can honestly sit there with a straight face and tell me that cap and trade is a good thing. Hypothetically, lets just say for a moment that all the scandals were taken out of it, and the scientist were right about global warming and its causes. Ok, now what?? There is no way you get India, China, etc etc to buy into it. So, again, here goes the "U.S" to the rescue of the world right? While those countries reap the benefits of our MONEY. Then we when have to borrow money (which by the way have you noticed what we currently owe China), they charge us INTEREST. We get charged freaking interest to save their half of the planet as well....gee, I am so in the wrong business. I really should sell something to the U.S lol
As for Jog, I have no problem helping one of oour own who is struggling and might need a hand UP. but there is a huge difference then helping one who needs a hand up versus one who wants a hand OUT. Now you can sit here with MOSTY, playing pass the bong, and preach this "you cons don't want to help anyone crap" but, the fact of the matter is this. During this whole thread, YOU along with mosty and other libs were given an opportunity to step up and show your true "love for redistribution". I don't recall seeing any of you holier than though libs offering to send jog a check. So pass your preaching to someone else who can't see for themselves. You and brother Obama eat from the same plates...thats fine with me....just don't ask me to eat all the slop you guys are serving.

[jognlope]

I don't get sick pay, that's the problem. I was scaaaared when I had the flu, thinking it was H1N1, but I'm a hypochrondirac, hyperchondriac or whatever, I would go with the "hyper" version.

With that rotten 15% I pay in SS tax, have to file my own taxes, they can give me heaps of HEAP.

[jognlope]

I live around a lot of "SSI people" who do seem to take advantage of the system. It's not like living in NYC where everybody is hustling and bustling and working and living life to the full. I wish I could start a program where these SSI people continue to get benefits while interning at a company and then the company has to hire them after 6 months or so of good work.

[mostpost]

I work 6 days a week doing medical transcription for an agency. I type Saratoga and Glens Falls Hospital. Recently there was a joint commission review, to boss hired extra girls and they took most of the work, almost people were hogging the work for Christmas money, so there was a shortage of work. My heating bills run as high as $550 in the winter. I have been working since I was 20, started working as editor of a company magazine (BCBS in NC) 2 weeks after I graduated in journism from VCU in Richmond, VA. I have had may 2 or 3 periods of unemployment in the 34 years since of about 2 months each. Plus I had the flu and couldn't work as much due to that, when the heating bill came that I got HEAP help with.
That can't be true. :rolleyes: :rolleyes: You got help from the government. Therefore you are lazy. Boxcar told me so. :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
The fact that you work six days a week is irrelevant. If you can't get by on working six days a week, then work twelve days a week.

[mostpost]

When the "help" is taken from the fruits of our labor, is most certainly IS our business.
And yet you are perfectly okay with the owner(s) of a business not paying an equitable wage. In your mind it's okay to be robbed as long as the person robbing you has more money than you. :bang:

[newtothegame]

And yet you are perfectly okay with the owner(s) of a business not paying an equitable wage. In your mind it's okay to be robbed as long as the person robbing you has more money than you. :bang:

Most...although I truly do enjoy our conversations....(sooner or later I will get through to you, or I keep telling myself that), you really should avoid conversations that relate to businesses or running them. its great to have "Ideas" how you would like things to run....but it is so far from the real world. Your experiences in the post office can in no way translate to the REAL world.

let me just ask one question...(and I know this will go off way into other topics) but define equitable? And I am not looking for websters version...tell me what equitable is in relationship to the above statement you made....

[mostpost]

9. Valuist plays the fear card like we're playing pinochle and Valuist just named the trump suit.
Not only is it the fear card, but it is flat out wrong. The Tax Foundation has a calculator which figures the cap and trade burden for a family. For a typical family the burden is not 300% it is 1.9%.
http://www.taxfoundation.org/capandtrade
A word of caution. On the first page, the numbers you enter are monthly income and expenditures. After you have entered your numbers and pressed the "calculate" button, the numbers you see are your ANNUAL CAP AND TRADE BURDEN.
Furthermore, the CBO estimates Cap And Trade will reduce the deficit by $24 per decase.

[mostpost]

Most...although I truly do enjoy our conversations....(sooner or later I will get through to you, or I keep telling myself that), you really should avoid conversations that relate to businesses or running them. its great to have "Ideas" how you would like things to run....but it is so far from the real world. Your experiences in the post office can in no way translate to the REAL world.

let me just ask one question...(and I know this will go off way into other topics) but define equitable? And I am not looking for websters version...tell me what equitable is in relationship to the above statement you made....
I believe I answered the equitable question in Post #18 of the "Budget...mmmmmm........mmmmmmm........mmmmmm thread.
As far as "getting through to me" Not a chance. None of your arguments (or any conservative's arguments) stand up to the light of day. Not that I think you are dumb. Nor do I think the other conservatives who post here are dumb. Your problem is your raw material. You can't make Thanksgiving dinner if the only thing in your refrigerator is Ketchup and Spam.

[mostpost]

Not only is it the fear card, but it is flat out wrong. The Tax Foundation has a calculator which figures the cap and trade burden for a family. For a typical family the burden is not 300% it is 1.9%.
http://www.taxfoundation.org/capandtrade
A word of caution. On the first page, the numbers you enter are monthly income and expenditures. After you have entered your numbers and pressed the "calculate" button, the numbers you see are your ANNUAL CAP AND TRADE BURDEN.
Furthermore, the CBO estimates Cap And Trade will reduce the deficit by $24 per decase.
A rare mistake!! :rolleyes: That should read $24 Billion per decade

[Tom]

With that rotten 15% I pay in SS tax, have to file my own taxes, they can give me heaps of HEAP.

Sorry for your troubles, but just who do you think "they are?"
I can tell you first hand one of them is me, and I too, enjoy "that rotten 15% I pay in SS tax, have to file my own taxes..." in addition to paying HEAP for others.

[jognlope]

Lighten up? I pay for your Medicare. You pay for my social security. We pay for $22 million to search for a mouse that doesn't exist, a bike trail reconstruction, a ridiculous museum and an airport with no planes.

[jognlope]

What's your kilogram weight, I'll order a PCA pump for you at a slow drip.

[Tom]

I was wrong.

Not at all sorry for your troubles.
Sounds more like karma to me.

[newtothegame]

Lighten up? I pay for your Medicare. You pay for my social security. We pay for $22 million to search for a mouse that doesn't exist, a bike trail reconstruction, a ridiculous museum and an airport with no planes.

But see Jog, here in lies the problem. I have stated, as have many others, cons don't have a problem helping those that need a hand up. But the libs should be screaming their butts off about the mouse as well as those who want a hand out. Instead, somehow, it becomes an after thought as long as " we take down the have's and give to the have nots"....
There would be plenty of money to take care of our own if we would stop being so foolish with nonsense....

[jognlope]

No Tom I wasn't giving off bad karma, just arguing. If you're going to lay blame, shouldn't it start at the bottom of the pyramid, the pork, the people who don't work and play the system, I see them every day hanging outside on the street. But again, the system allows them to.

And what about the utilities who are scalping us left and right. We pay for the "lives of their rich and famous," not the delivery of electricity. We pay for their fat benefit packages and salaries. They are a government sanctioned monopoly. They should agree to a HEAP program and they do. They get it back 'on the other end,' believe me.

[newtothegame]

I believe I answered the equitable question in Post #18 of the "Budget...mmmmmm........mmmmmmm........mmmmmm thread.
As far as "getting through to me" Not a chance. None of your arguments (or any conservative's arguments) stand up to the light of day. Not that I think you are dumb. Nor do I think the other conservatives who post here are dumb. Your problem is your raw material. You can't make Thanksgiving dinner if the only thing in your refrigerator is Ketchup and Spam.

It's not REDISTRIBUTION OF WEALTH. It's PROPER DISTRIBUTION OF WEALTH. If a business man achieves a certain amount of wealth because he has not paid his employees equitably (including benefits) then he has stolen the money. Who determines what is equitable. The owner and the employee through negotiation. But it is important to be sure both sides of the negotiation have equal power. Thus, Unions. :eek: :eek: Unions are not always appropriate in a smaller business or in every job type, but they are essential in larger businesses.


That above bolded was your post from the other thread.....and no, sorry you didnt answer. You gave alot of vague thoughts and ideas. You say the owner and employee should determine what is equitable. I say that dies happen now. Its called an offer of employment to which the employee agrees or leaves. And as for both sides having equal power, what the hell does that mean??? The employer has the power to offer a job, and the prospective employee has the power to accept or refuse, what more power would you like??
Unions??? Thats a joke! I have made it previously known my past union affiliation. I can tell you that we worked without a new contract for nearly 8 years. No raises, no cost of living increase, no nothing. All the while, our union leaders were sitting in their cozy offices, driving merceded and better, with very nice 6 plus figure salaries. Hell our local chair had a secretary who drove a freaking beamer....yeah real fine representation there!!!:bang: Not too mention it has been proven time and time again about the money theft unions have over their supposedmembers.But I digress....look, tell me above where you answered what is equitable?? Let me help ya, you can't! Want to know why? Cause as soon as an employer or business gave a return to its employees, lets say 1% of total profits, it wouldnt be enough. You libs would turn around and say "It should of been two". Libs will not be satisfied till companies make the bare minimum and the employees (who take none of the risk) make all the rest! Remember your wal-mart tirade? Thats why you can't put a number to it. Cause that number is ever floating depending on the profits of the company. :lol:

[Tom]

No Tom I wasn't giving off bad karma, just arguing. If you're going to lay blame, shouldn't it start at the bottom of the pyramid, the pork, the people who don't work and play the system, I see them every day hanging outside on the street. But again, the system allows them to.

And what about the utilities who are scalping us left and right. We pay for the "lives of their rich and famous," not the delivery of electricity. We pay for their fat benefit packages and salaries. They are a government sanctioned monopoly. They should agree to a HEAP program and they do. They get it back 'on the other end,' believe me.

And in the meantime, I can pay your way? :rolleyes:

[Tom]

It's not REDISTRIBUTION OF WEALTH. It's PROPER DISTRIBUTION OF WEALTH. If a business man achieves a certain amount of wealth because he has not paid his employees equitably (including benefits) then he has stolen the money. Who determines what is equitable. The owner and the employee through negotiation. But it is important to be sure both sides of the negotiation have equal power. Thus, Unions. images/UBGX/05.gif images/UBGX/05.gif Unions are not always appropriate in a smaller business or in every job type, but they are essential in larger businesses.


So what RISK do the employees take? The OWNERS put up the capital, buy the buildings, the equipment, pay for the power, raw materials.....and you want the employee to have EQUAL power?

The unions are the thieves.

[jognlope]

"paying my way" sure thing, Tom. You know, you could use a little reason.

[Warren Henry]

OK, class. What have we learned so far in Brother Boxcar's thread?


5. Warren wonders why anybody in need of government assistance to pay their heating bill can even afford to log on to the Internet. I always wondered the same thing about the 6M recipients of Pell Grants and all their family members. How dare any member of those 6M families log on! :mad: Am I right Warren? :confused:


Did I miss anything? Get anything wrong? :confused:

Yep, right. It bothers me to see folks using public assistance for food, housing, etc while riding around in their very own Lincoln. The politicians (neither party gets a pass) encourage everyone to be on the take because that gives them control. It is WRONG and this country is doomed if it isn't fixed fast. We are turning into a nation of victims and entitlement needing, dependent people - which is the goal of our leaders.

[jognlope]

Can even log onto the Internet..... lots of brain power here, I'm just bolled over by it. It's not public assistance. It was a one time HEAP grant from being sick while not having sick pay and lack of work TEMPORARILY. You know, you could just think a little, that's all I ask. But you don't. I'm pretty sure I work more than most of you. It's amazing the posing you do, and the hiding.

[jognlope]

So I supposed you will never use Medicare? Right? Because your argument would say that you cannot use Medicare. Because I can't use HEAP when I'm sick, right? It's the same thing. Well I hope you're okay getting herbal treatments in your old age because you can't use Medicare.

[Tom]

You still ranting?
God, woman,give it rest....yack yack yack yack.:bang:

[jognlope]

Yes I am still ranting... because you don't have any sense and you act like you're in the 5th grade.

[boxcar]

Can even log onto the Internet..... lots of brain power here, I'm just bolled over by it. It's not public assistance. It was a one time HEAP grant from being sick while not having sick pay and lack of work TEMPORARILY. You know, you could just think a little, that's all I ask. But you don't. I'm pretty sure I work more than most of you. It's amazing the posing you do, and the hiding.

Jog, from whence did the money come to pay for that grant? Let me help you out and make this a multiple choice question. The source for this grant money is the:

a. Tooth Fairy
b. Santa Claus
c. Easter Bunny
d. Wizard of Oz
e. Superman
f. Batman & Robin
f. the pockets of NJ personally
g. the pockets Mosty personally
h. the pockets of Hcap personally
i. a secret Stash of ObamaBucks
j. Taxpayers

If you get this answer right, I will personally mail you $20. to help you out with your heating bill. Just PM with your address and I will send a money order.

Boxcar

[jognlope]

I guess I should have let the heat be turned off and me and my parrot freeze, rather than take HEAP. I don't know why I didn't do that. After all if my parrot died from pneumonia, I wouldn't be using tax money and i'm sure I would have gotten over his death. Stupid me!!! Certainly even if I get no sick pay, I should have gotten the tooth fairy to give me that loan she promised. Have you spoken to her, what's her interest rate lately?

You're right!! I don't know what I was thinking...

[jognlope]

Oh yeah Boxcar, good luck to you, since you won't be using Medicare, on those hands on treatments and herbal supplements. ... let me know how it goes.

[jognlope]

And don't waste this space or my time typing any more stupid comments, because I won't be back to check them.

[boxcar]

You're right!! I don't know what I was thinking...

Obviously not since you don't think grants are taxpayer-funded. :rolleyes:

Boxcar