View Full Version : Rachel v Zenyatta: will you be there?
thorobasePA
01-27-2010, 06:13 PM
If and when the two stars meet, are you planning to be there to witness it?
miesque
01-27-2010, 06:21 PM
Maybe its just me, this question is a bit simplistic and vague because the answer I have (and I would guess I am not the only one) is, it depends. A lot depends on how far in advance its announced and where the location is. I have an above average flexible schedule and travel ability but I cannot answer the question. I would like to be there, but some places are a lot easier to travel on short notice then others and sometimes I do actually have plans already on the books. The sad thing is if we have to wait with baited breath for a press conference less then a week before the race, its going to be pretty damn hard for me to get there. Now what I am stating above is not "only if its convenient" travelling across country or even getting on a plane is never "convenient" and requires planning.
tzipi
01-27-2010, 06:23 PM
If it's at Belmont, Saratoga, or Monmouth,or..... Yonkers!, I'll be there.
bisket
01-27-2010, 06:40 PM
pimlico :ThmbUp:
dylbert
01-27-2010, 07:07 PM
Fair Grounds, Oaklawn, Louisiana Downs, Lone Star, Sam Houston -- all within days drive or less for me. I think it is too late for FG or OP unfortunately as RA hasn't officially resumed training. Canters/gallops/jogs reported.
Zenyatta could call RA camp out by declaring intentions to enter OP Apple Blossom on April 3. Or, RA gets ready quick for New Orleans Handicap on March 27. This could turn into real chess match again this year.
I saw RA race in FG Oaks last year and she was absolutely amazing. She didn't even seem to be breathing hard after 8.5 furlongs on wet track. A three- or four-race series concluding at Breeders' Cup could possibly generate big interest for thoroughbreds in North America. Tracks could include some combination of FG, OP, SA, WO, BEL, SAR, and CD. Lots of possibilities here... all we fans want are some REALITIES!
Cubbymac26
01-28-2010, 01:43 AM
i second yonkers or if yr is not good enough they can race at freehold :lol:
eastie
01-28-2010, 07:57 AM
it'll be one for the ages when Zenyatta schools RA...we're there dude
ExoticDancer
01-28-2010, 08:37 AM
when Chickenyatta is done in California she will finally come EAST. Come take on the best in the best races and get out of California for heaven sake. :bang:
FenceBored
01-28-2010, 08:37 AM
it'll be one for the ages when Zenyatta schools RA...we're there dude
Ah, so you're going to Fantasy Island.
RichieP
01-28-2010, 09:07 AM
If it's at Belmont, Saratoga, or Monmouth,or..... Yonkers!, I'll be there.
Make that 2 of us! :)
CincyHorseplayer
01-28-2010, 09:09 AM
Ah, so you're going to Fantasy Island.
"The plane boss,the plane!!!":lol:
http://content6.flixster.com/photo/31/29/30/3129300_tml.jpg
QuarterCrack
01-28-2010, 09:12 AM
If it's at Belmont, Saratoga, or Monmouth,or..... Yonkers!, I'll be there.
... or Suffolk!
:lol:
Skanoochies
01-28-2010, 01:13 PM
Only if it`s at Hastings Park. :lol: :lol:
joanied
01-28-2010, 01:37 PM
Should have been another choice in this poll...for those of us that want to be there, but can't...as in...yours truly!!
I would give a lot to be there...but, it would have to be announced well in advance...my husband told me it'd be Ok for me to jump on a plane and go...but I can't, won't fly...for various reasons...now, if I could drive there...I would be there...if they race in the midwest, like Oaklawn I could possibly make it...
so, for everyone here that will be able to make it to the big showdown...thank your lucky stars:)
when Rachael Alexduckingya is done in the East, she will finally come WEST. Come take on the best in the best races and get out of NY for heaven sake. :bang:
I missed last November.....Duck, duck, GOOSED! :D
ExoticDancer
01-29-2010, 10:37 PM
Let me know when Chickenyatta beats a single G1 winning male on dirt. I will look you up in October.
Rialto
01-30-2010, 01:17 AM
I will make a 100% effort to watch it on TV live... as for actually being there, no.
toussaud
01-30-2010, 02:26 AM
if they raced in hell I would be sitting right in front of the finish line
Kimsus
01-30-2010, 12:19 PM
The longer this goes on the lesser I think it will happen, I'm sure Rachel's connections will only race if they believe Rachel is back at the top of her game and or if Zenyatta starts to show cracks(at 6 you never know when that might be). I wouldn't be surprised that is what Jackson is waiting for, here we are in nearing Feb and there's no sight of them ever meeting. The longer this goes on the less chance it will, if they do meet I hope it's a true race where both have no excuses and both are at the top of their games.
PaceAdvantage
01-30-2010, 05:49 PM
I wouldn't be surprised that is what Jackson is waiting for, here we are in nearing Feb and there's no sight of them ever meeting. The longer this goes on the less chance it will, if they do meet I hope it's a true race where both have no excuses and both are at the top of their games.Are you serious? As you said, it's not even February yet! What top horse in existence has had their entire yearly campaign mapped out before February?
What exactly is it that you had hoped would have been reported by now?
tzipi
01-30-2010, 06:09 PM
The longer this goes on the lesser I think it will happen, I'm sure Rachel's connections will only race if they believe Rachel is back at the top of her game and or if Zenyatta starts to show cracks(at 6 you never know when that might be). I wouldn't be surprised that is what Jackson is waiting for, here we are in nearing Feb and there's no sight of them ever meeting. The longer this goes on the less chance it will, if they do meet I hope it's a true race where both have no excuses and both are at the top of their games.
Dude, just give it up. All you do is trash on RA. How many records or tied records,how many wins from wire to wire or off the pace,how many tracks ran at,how many states. How many wins against boys or males on DIRT? All as a 3yo filly! As much as I like Zenny,she's won against lesser and against a turf poly field on a closing polyturf surface on BC day(nice race by her though). Give it up. Yeah she's so bad that she has to wait to see if Zenyatta shows any cracks in her. What a joke.
Everyday you just trash on RA as if she's done nothing but you say not a word about Zenyatta. Other threads you blurt out how gee I wonder if RA will run in tough spots. Uhh who ran what campaign last year? It's just so telling of your frustrations and makes you look ridiculous.
WinterTriangle
01-30-2010, 06:47 PM
If its at Oaklawn or FG, I'll be there.
Why would OP be "too late"? They run til april, it's only January now
Zenyatta To Crush
01-30-2010, 07:38 PM
If its at Oaklawn or FG, I'll be there.
Why would OP be "too late"? They run til april, it's only January now
Rachel hasn't even had her first workout yet. That means she won't be ready to run until at least mid-March. That means the Apple Blossom on April 3rd is probably a no-go for her. Plus, I'm sure Rachel's connections want her to be at the top of her game when they face Zenyatta, and she might not be at that level until her 3rd race back, which might not be until June.
andymays
01-30-2010, 07:41 PM
Rachel hasn't even had her first workout yet. That means she won't be ready to run until at least mid-March. That means the Apple Blossom on April 3rd is probably a no-go for her. Plus, I'm sure Rachel's connections want her to be at the top of her game when they face Zenyatta, and she might not be at that level until her 3rd race back, which might not be until June.
I love Rachel and think she should have won HOY. All the whispers seem to indicate that she aint right. I hope the whispers are wrong.
This from www.racingwithbruno.com
What if................
Rachel Alexandra didn't come West for the Breeders Cup because she had an injury that necessitated time off, and what if that injury hasn't healed enough or won't heal enough that forces Jackson and Asmussen to retire her to the breeding shed?
What if both are true?
Maybe it would answer why Jess Jackson made the excuse for the synthetic, or plastic, being the main concern.
Jackson has made it known that he is very partial towards his horses. "Curlin ran four ticks faster than Zenyatta this last race on that turf," Jackson said in an interview with Art Wilson of the Pasadena- Star News. "This group of older horses was not the competition that Curlin had a year ago, at least as measured by time and the quality of horses in the race." He also added.
Well, that's Jess Jackson's opinion, and only an opinion, but what if Rachel came out West and was exposed for being a tired, and maybe less than 100% horseflesh? Jackson and Asmussen couldn't afford that in their quest for back-to-back Horse of the Year award.
Interestingly enough both Rachel and Curlin didn't win the coveted Breeders Cup or inappropriately named World Thoroughbred Championships in their last year. Curlin finished off the board and Rachel was a no-show, yet both won hands down the Horse of the Year Award.
In honor of Rachel Alexandra, Jackson and his winemakers, 'created a limited-edition commemorative wine. A luscious 2007 Pinot Noir grown on estate vineyards in the Arroyo Seco appellation. With less than 500 cases, the wines are 'guaranteed to become collector's items' according to the Kendall-Jackson official website.
Reports from Kentucky is that Rachel has a soft tissue injury, allegedly, and sources in Kentucky are saying 'she is done', 'retired', allegedly. It's all hearsay right now.
That collector's item just may have become even more of a collector's bargain and it is true I am sure those cases will go fast.
Well, the media hasn't picked it up yet. No, not a case of the wine, the possible retirement. All we have heard that she has had a set back and she was jogging, but she is yet to record an official work.
So, what if?
What if this is true, does that change your mind on who was indeed the horse of the year or are we talking about apples and oranges?
What if, just wondering out loud, what if the Kentucky blue blood media is sitting on the story, just as they were rooting hard for Rachel to win Horse of the Year, as witnessed in the front page of the Thoroughbred Times. The story is hot to go and an announcement might happen as early as today?
It's all about what if......
What if....
Steve Wood, the track superintendent at Del Mar Track and formerly with Santa Anita, had been relieved of his duties 5 years ago?
What if.. may have meant no synthetic era in Southern California? or was it inevitable?
The knee jerk reaction to jump on board the synthetic surfaces, in my opinion, was the state of disarray that the Steve Wood dirt tracks were in at that time at Del Mar and Santa Anita from the mid 90's to as late as 2007.
Hollywood Park, manicured by Dennis Moore, had always been a superior surface and even to this day it is the best synthetic course in the United States that is not called Tapeta. Yes, Hollywood Park has had it's share of failures, including three breakdowns in the morning since last Saturday, but over the course of time it has been the safest, and produced more Kentucky Derby winners than Santa Anita Park. Giacomo, and Fusaichi Pegasus are the two California based Hollywood bases horses to win the Kentucky Derby in the 2000 millenium, meanwhile, the Santa Anita Park main track has not had a horse train on it in the spring and win the Derby since Silver Charm and Real Quiet did it back in 97-98.
What if.....
the Steve Wood era in California has finally run its course. You hate to hear anyone being fired or losing their job, but in reality the man was making a whale of lot more than most of us were....................but allegedly, done.
What if....
this 2010 Del Mar season will be the first in more than 15 years that we will have a new man handling the track.
A new track superintendent, and the name I keep hearing is Richard Tedesco, the Santa Anita main man. Allegedly, he is going to take the reins, or the wheel I should say of those new state of the art John Deere tractors. It will all be for not, however, if we get the same ol, same ol situation. Just like the rumors of Norm Chow of UCLA going to USC, Tedesco is in and Wood is out, allegedly.
It will be all for not, however, if the tinkering, inconsistent mornings and afternoons tracks, are allowed to survive despite the change.
Tedesco number one priority at Del Mar shall be to bring confidence back to the handicappers. His priority should be to lend consistency on a day in day out basis, Monday through Sunday.
The track maintenance, or cutting to a deeper depth on the dark days which leads to slower, deeper, more dangerous surfaces on Wednesday and Thursday (which is heavily populated in the afternoon by the cheapest horses on the grounds) has to cease.
The track on Wednesday must be the same as the following Sunday. It is very important to have a good track to race and train over. You cannot expect horses to stay sound if the train on a Saturday or a rock hard surface and race on a Wednesday when the track is dug up five inches, one or two inches more than normal.
Also, the cheaper horses, due either to injury or simply case of the slow's, are the bread and butter of the game and they are highly susceptible to injuries over track as such.
Barry Abrams, the venerable quote machine, as told us repeatedly: "horses get hurt in the morning, not in afternoon,'' and we have witnessed that repeatedly in the morning, especially on the Steve Wood tracks.
I applaud Del Mar management for making the right decision. It was time for a change.
we are hoping is that Tedesco, or whomever is running the track, and making the decisions, prioritizes consistency as the number one priority.
Without it, we are back to square one.
I am truly hopeful, right now, and maybe even cautiously optimistic at this time.
ExoticDancer
01-30-2010, 07:53 PM
Zenyatta did not run her first race until the end of MAY last year. :eek:
andymays
01-30-2010, 07:55 PM
Zenyatta did not run her first race until the end of MAY last year. :eek:
If Bruno made a mistake you have to understand that he's got more passion than most. Give him a little slack. Bruno is OK! :ThmbUp:
And if we want to blame someone for the error let's blame Tom. Why not?: :D
tzipi
01-30-2010, 07:59 PM
Zenyatta did not run her first race until the end of MAY last year. :eek:
It's just people going after anything they can. Exactly, Zenyatta started late last year but not a word of trashing or hurt or whatever and Rach didn't get rolling till about March second off a small race. It's the dead winter! It's January, just the first month of the year! Crazy talk.
If you are not running in January, your year is over :D
Kimsus
01-30-2010, 08:42 PM
It's just people going after anything they can. Exactly, Zenyatta started late last year but not a word of trashing or hurt or whatever and Rach didn't get rolling till about March second off a small race. It's the dead winter! It's January, just the first month of the year! Crazy talk.
If you are not running in January, your year is over :D
In an effort to keep things accurate and in proper perspective, Rachel last raced on the 1st week of Sept in 09. If she had raced in the BC I doubt anyone would even notice.
tzipi
01-30-2010, 08:53 PM
In an effort to keep things accurate and in proper perspective, Rachel last raced on the 1st week of Sept in 09. If she had raced in the BC I doubt anyone would even notice.
Again Zenyatta didn't race for 7 months last year but that was never an issue? Just all of a sudden RA not running for 5 months now, is a new thing for top horses? It HAS to be questioned,right? But not Zens layoff last year. Oookkk
PaceAdvantage
01-30-2010, 10:20 PM
Well, the media hasn't picked it up yet. No, not a case of the wine, the possible retirement. All we have heard that she has had a set back and she was jogging, but she is yet to record an official work.If all this is true, why would they be holding out on the announcement? After the beginning of January, all the votes were in for HOY. Why would anyone sit on this news?
I'm not buying it...Jackson and Asmussen have already addressed what has been going on with Rachel...they've said she is to start working in earnest this coming week...let's see if that happens...
andymays
01-30-2010, 10:22 PM
If all this is true, why would they be holding out on the announcement? After the beginning of January, all the votes were in for HOY. Why would anyone sit on this news?
I'm not buying it...Jackson and Asmussen have already addressed what has been going on with Rachel...they've said she is to start working in earnest this coming week...let's see if that happens...
It's Bruno. Sometimes he's right and sometimes he's wrong. I think we'll know the whole story in a week or two. Let's hope she's fine.
Zenyatta To Crush
01-30-2010, 10:23 PM
I don't think there's anything wrong with Rachel, I think she's perfectly fine. Now, if she hasn't had her first workout by February 7 or so, I'd be a little worried. If you go back and watch videos of the Woodward and look at Rachel after the race, you can tell she gave everything she had and was completely exhausted. I think her connections knew that her season had been long enough and there was no point running her an extra 1/8th mile against tougher when they knew she was a tired horse.
I feel like she's gonna fire a big race first out and reach her peak by about her 3rd start. She was training unbelievably going into the Oaks last year, full of energy, but didn't look the same heading into the Woodward. Lucky she's so talented that she doesn't have to be 100% and still beat older males.
I hope they space her races out a bit better this year so she can run a big one in the Breeders Cup. I also hope Calvin gets some brains and realizes he doesn't always have to go on or right up on near the lead with her regardless of the pace. He's just putting a huge target on her back each time he does it.
PaceAdvantage
01-30-2010, 10:58 PM
If you go back and watch videos of the Woodward and look at Rachel after the race, you can tell she gave everything she had and was completely exhausted.You know, I did go back and watch the Woodward again about two weeks ago...I watched Rachel gallop out like a phenom...nobody passed her on the gallop out...not even the horse who "almost beat her."
Wouldn't you think a completely exhausted horse would succumb to her pursuers after the race is over?
Hey, now that the partymanners youtube site is back, you can watch for yourself:
MsBJVuGAr78
Stillriledup
01-30-2010, 11:02 PM
Rachel has never been threatened or challenged as a 3 yo. If you think she has, its just a figment of your imagination.
tzipi
01-30-2010, 11:02 PM
I'm sorry, that is not the gallop out or motion of an exhausted horse. An exhausted horse looks ALOT different after a race.
Kimsus
01-30-2010, 11:10 PM
I don't recall if it was an article or radio show but it was from either Scott Blasi or Steve Asmussen that pretty much said she was done for awhile because she came out of the Woodward pretty tired, whether that mean't she was spent or had something else go wrong with her I don't know. But I know one of Scott or Steve said this.
tzipi
01-30-2010, 11:15 PM
I don't recall if it was an article or radio show but it was from either Scott Blasi or Steve Asmussen that pretty much said she was done for awhile because she came out of the Woodward pretty tired, whether that mean't she was spent or had something else go wrong with her I don't know. But I know one of Scott or Steve said this.
I think she was tired overall as she was in the barn when she was back and she should've been after that campaign. But she wasn't hunched,short galloping,and wheezing after the Woodward. JMO from experience.
Zenyatta To Crush
01-31-2010, 12:11 AM
I don't use just the gallop out to see how tired a horse actually was. Some horses just don't gallop out as strong as others.
When Rachel was brought back to the winner's circle, you can tell by how hard she's still breathing and how she's not really walking with her head high or with a lot of energy, that she was dead tired. And she should be too, there probably aren't many horses that could run through those fast of fractions with multiple challenges and not be tired from it. I'm just saying that race seemed to take the most out of her and I don't blame them for taking the rest of the year off. I really don't know if she would have run near 100% in her next race or not, but if Calvin had rode her in the Breeders Cup like he did in the Woodward, she probably would've finished off the board behind Summer Bird.
I sure hope they change her running style just a little bit this year so she doesn't have that Woodward type race happen again. I hope they can get her to relax a little farther off the pace when it is a quick one.
Watch between 7:00-8:00 in this video, maybe she always looks this after her races, but then again maybe not. To me, she left everything out on the track in this one, and I'm not so focused on how she out-galloped Macho Again.
Fh_CcdIiQR0
ExoticDancer
01-31-2010, 01:38 AM
Your post is nonsense and Zenyatta is not HOY Rachel is deal with it she had a better year.
WinterTriangle
01-31-2010, 01:46 AM
if they race in the midwest, like Oaklawn I could possibly make it...
You got free room and board for as long as you like if you wanna come and it's at Oaklawn. All you need is gasoline $ and a few days off. I'll even feed ya.
You can relax and not do any beet farming or animal feeding either.:lol:
As for Rachel being tired after a race, it doesn't matter.........she won. What happens after the race is not of consequence. If it were, I'd be a millionaire for the ones I wagered on who ran out.... but were energetic AFTER the race they didn't win. :)
Zenyatta To Crush
01-31-2010, 02:08 AM
Your post is nonsense and Zenyatta is not HOY Rachel is deal with it she had a better year.
I never said Rachel didn't deserve HOY, in fact, she had my vote. Sometimes the best horse doesn't win HOY, but I think Rachel proved more on the track this year than Zenyatta. I still would give Zenyatta the edge if they were in the same race, but I thought Rachel for HOY was a good choice.
I just want some people to understand that one of the decisions to not run in the Breeders Cup was because she had a long year and looked to be getting more tired as the year went on. Obviously the surface, distance, and competition were also factors but its hard to make a point that the Woodward didn't take much out of Rachel since she galloped out better than Macho Again.
PaceAdvantage
01-31-2010, 04:07 AM
It's also hard to argue that a horse is dead tired, or they reached her bottom, and yet she still galloped out better than the horse that everyone said was going to beat her if the race was six inches longer...
Zenyatta To Crush
01-31-2010, 04:46 AM
It's also hard to argue that a horse is dead tired, or they reached her bottom, and yet she still galloped out better than the horse that everyone said was going to beat her if the race was six inches longer...
Maybe all the horses in the Woodward were SUPER dead tired, making Rachel look stronger in comparison. Macho Again and Bullsbay didn't really come back to run anywhere near their best.
Anyways, dumb argument...who cares whether she was tired or not. Horses get tired. I'm a huge RA fan and may be even biased towards her since I saw her in person. Lets just hope they meet, which I'm sure will lead to many more excuses and arguments.
So how about this Australian Open final? Federer is beating up on Murray so far. Good, good. I don't like Andy Murray very much. Go Federer!
ExoticDancer
01-31-2010, 09:49 AM
I never said Rachel didn't deserve HOY, in fact, she had my vote. Sometimes the best horse doesn't win HOY, but I think Rachel proved more on the track this year than Zenyatta. I still would give Zenyatta the edge if they were in the same race, but I thought Rachel for HOY was a good choice.
I just want some people to understand that one of the decisions to not run in the Breeders Cup was because she had a long year and looked to be getting more tired as the year went on. Obviously the surface, distance, and competition were also factors but its hard to make a point that the Woodward didn't take much out of Rachel since she galloped out better than Macho Again.
Macho Again is a G1 winning male and ran a fantastic race. Several G1 winning males took a shot at her that day and she held them all off to win a race no FILLY in HISTORY has won. A race that even the great Secretariat could not win.
Rachel did not race in the BC because it she didn't have to. She had proved all she needed to on the track. She proved herself to be the best horse in the world on dirt. The BC was on plastic and not a dirt championship so why go? Dirt horses race on dirt.
Zenyatta proved herself to be Queen of the plastic. Good for her. That means we can compare her to the other great plastic champions of years long ago right? :rolleyes:
Dahoss9698
01-31-2010, 11:06 AM
I put it in another thread, but according to DRF, Rachel Alexandra breezed 4 furlongs this morning.
Rachel Alexandra01/31/2010 FG 4F :52.00 Dirt Fast B
tzipi
01-31-2010, 11:42 AM
Maybe all the horses in the Woodward were SUPER dead tired, making Rachel look stronger in comparison.
Geez,it's just every excuse in the book. No matter what is said or proof.
It's Feb and there's posts of, "Well Rachel was dead tired in the Woodward."! Well it seems she was fine seeing the video by her gallop out and body motion. Then it's well OHH that's because everyone else was MORE dead tired so Rachel was made to look better :lol: :lol: So sad. It's over Rachel HOY.
Kimsus
01-31-2010, 11:45 AM
I don't use just the gallop out to see how tired a horse actually was. Some horses just don't gallop out as strong as others.
When Rachel was brought back to the winner's circle, you can tell by how hard she's still breathing and how she's not really walking with her head high or with a lot of energy, that she was dead tired. And she should be too, there probably aren't many horses that could run through those fast of fractions with multiple challenges and not be tired from it. I'm just saying that race seemed to take the most out of her and I don't blame them for taking the rest of the year off. I really don't know if she would have run near 100% in her next race or not, but if Calvin had rode her in the Breeders Cup like he did in the Woodward, she probably would've finished off the board behind Summer Bird.
I sure hope they change her running style just a little bit this year so she doesn't have that Woodward type race happen again. I hope they can get her to relax a little farther off the pace when it is a quick one.
Watch between 7:00-8:00 in this video, maybe she always looks this after her races, but then again maybe not. To me, she left everything out on the track in this one, and I'm not so focused on how she out-galloped Macho Again.
Fh_CcdIiQR0
This is a nice video, it illustrates the passion for Rachel perfectly, there's a video of Zenyatta also on youtube much of the same theme, both horses have the same charisma in spades.
FenceBored
01-31-2010, 12:09 PM
I put it in another thread, but according to DRF, Rachel Alexandra breezed 4 furlongs this morning.
Rachel Alexandra01/31/2010 FG 4F :52.00 Dirt Fast B
Unfortunately, 86th of 98 (really 99 as 98 is a tie) isn't going to quiet the haters.
Kimsus
01-31-2010, 12:12 PM
Actually this is a normal type of work for Asmussen much like he did with Curlin after a long layoff. I would pay more attention to time or more specifically how she looks in a work as she gets closer to a race.
Zenyatta To Crush
01-31-2010, 01:42 PM
Geez,it's just every excuse in the book. No matter what is said or proof.
It's Feb and there's posts of, "Well Rachel was dead tired in the Woodward."! Well it seems she was fine seeing the video by her gallop out and body motion. Then it's well OHH that's because everyone else was MORE dead tired so Rachel was made to look better :lol: :lol: So sad. It's over Rachel HOY.
I was actually exagerrating a bit about every other horse being SUPER tired. I'm not making any excuses. I told you, I'm a huge RA fan and how dare I think that its possible she could be beaten in a race because she's not 100%. The same goes for Zenyatta, if she's a tired horse, she could eventually be beaten. However, I think Borel is much more likely to make a jockey error and get RA beat. Mike Smith has already had his close call in the Clement Hirsch and I think he has learned a lot from it. Hopefully Borel learned something from the Woodward.
tzipi
01-31-2010, 01:49 PM
I was actually exagerrating a bit about every other horse being SUPER tired. I'm not making any excuses. I told you, I'm a huge RA fan and how dare I think that its possible she could be beaten in a race because she's not 100%. The same goes for Zenyatta, if she's a tired horse, she could eventually be beaten. However, I think Borel is much more likely to make a jockey error and get RA beat. Mike Smith has already had his close call in the Clement Hirsch and I think he has learned a lot from it. Hopefully Borel learned something from the Woodward.
I think both jocks know their horses by now and will put them in the best spots. Both are great and I hope both stay undefeated until they meet and will be happy whoever wins the race although maybe a smidge more if RA wins ha. I JUST HOPE ONE OF THEM WINS THE RACE AND NOT SOME SHOCKER HORSE!!! :lol:
PaceAdvantage
02-01-2010, 08:14 PM
I wouldn't be shocked to see a new jockey on Rachel this year...in fact, I might welcome it...
Well, one can dream, can't one? ;)
tzipi
02-01-2010, 08:15 PM
I wouldn't be shocked to see a new jockey on Rachel this year...in fact, I might welcome it...
Well, one can dream, can't one? ;)
What would be your dream jockey on her? :)
PaceAdvantage
02-01-2010, 08:18 PM
What would be your dream jockey on her? :)A filly on a filly? :lol:
But seriously folks...
tzipi
02-01-2010, 08:19 PM
A filly on a filly? :lol:
But seriously folks...
Very funny :D
Spalding No!
02-01-2010, 08:52 PM
I wouldn't be shocked to see a new jockey on Rachel this year...in fact, I might welcome it...
Well, one can dream, can't one? ;)
I thought they were trying to get Borel off passively by riding the fence until the 11th hour to announce their intention to run in the Preakness last year.
Maybe they'll cite the zealous whipping in the Woodward to muscle him out this year.
I'm not sure if Robby Albarado is a viable replacement though.
PaceAdvantage
02-02-2010, 01:52 AM
I'm not sure if Robby Albarado is a viable replacement though.I had the same exact thought as I was making my "filly on a filly" reply earlier...
there are rumors abound that they are tripling the purse of the apple blossom in order to get this matchup
Kimsus
02-02-2010, 10:10 AM
I had the same exact thought as I was making my "filly on a filly" reply earlier...
PA,
Why did you close the Rachel had a breeze thread? You made a comment, where no one was able to respond to. To my recollection there was nothing derogatory or of a flaming nature said in the thread. Strange move for a place where ideas are supposed to be discussed.
FenceBored
02-02-2010, 11:30 AM
PA,
Why did you close the Rachel had a breeze thread? You made a comment, where no one was able to respond to. To my recollection there was nothing derogatory or of a flaming nature said in the thread. Strange move for a place where ideas are supposed to be discussed.
Not as strange as posting in another pre-existing thread to ask him the question instead of sending a private message.
Kimsus
02-02-2010, 11:58 AM
Not as strange as posting in another pre-existing thread to ask him the question instead of sending a private message.
Why? Isn't this of public interest? If not, I wasn't aware this was a private matter that required private messaging. :rolleyes:
classhandicapper
02-02-2010, 12:07 PM
The one thing I feel very comfortable saying is that we've already seen the best of Rachel Alexandra. She may come back the same, but she won't be better. IMO, fillies mature physically sooner than colts. That's why some of the best 3YO fillies have done well against Grade 1 3YO colts in the spring and summer, but have either avoided or lost to older Grade 1 males later in the year. The colts keep getting better after the fillies have already peaked. You can actually sometimes see that in their 2YO form also. It's not very unusual for the best 2YO filly to be faster than the best 2YO colt, but it reverses by the end of their 3YO years
If I was managing RA I would make my only priority trying to get Zenyatta in a race at 9F on dirt against other fillies. That way all the conditions would be perfect for a reputation enhancing win. IMO, if she tries "legitimate" Grade 1 older colts in a field with other quality speed, she's going to get beat. She had a tough trip and still won the Woodward, but those were Grade 3 or marginal Grade 2 colts.
FenceBored
02-02-2010, 12:13 PM
Why? Isn't this of public interest? If not, I wasn't aware this was a private matter that required private messaging. :rolleyes:
Well, I don't really care why he decided to close that thread, though I have my own private thoughts (which shall remain ... private). And even if I grant, for the sake of argument, the 'public interest' argument, then a new thread would seem to me more appropriate than trying to hijack an existing one.
So, a private message or a new thread with a title like "Why is the MAN keeping me down" would appear to have been better options.
Now, back on topic: Stephen Foster baby! :jump::jump::jump: 9f, CD, mid-June. What's not to love? Heck, maybe they can shift it to the Friday night card for a PRIMETIME showdown.
Kimsus
02-02-2010, 12:18 PM
Well, I don't really care why he decided to close that thread, though I have my own private thoughts (which shall remain ... private). And even if I grant, for the sake of argument, the 'public interest' argument, then a new thread would seem to me more appropriate than trying to hijack an existing one.
So, a private message or a new thread with a title like "Why is the MAN keeping me down" would appear to have been better options.
Now, back on topic: Stephen Foster baby! :jump::jump::jump: 9f, CD, mid-June. What's not to love? Heck, maybe they can shift it to the Friday night card for a PRIMETIME showdown.
I work in a field where "confidentiality" is not only an everyday occurance, but must be adhered to unless one wants to lose their employment. No one understands this more than me, I think your concept of when a PM should be used and when it isn't needed is cloudy. Or atleast you are making a mountain out of a mole hill or when none existed.
hijack an existing one.
I almost missed this, was this necessary? Really now...if I did I will say sorry to all that I did offend. It was certainly not my intention to take over a thread. :rolleyes:
FenceBored
02-02-2010, 12:41 PM
I work in a field where "confidentiality" is not only an everyday occurance, but must be adhered to unless one wants to lose their employment. No one understands this more than me, I think your concept of when a PM should be used and when it isn't needed is cloudy. Or atleast you are making a mountain out of a mole hill or when none existed.
Kettle to pot, kettle to pot, come in pot.
I almost missed this, was this necessary? Really now...if I did I will say sorry to all that I did offend. It was certainly not my intention to take over a thread. :rolleyes:
To 'hijack a (the) thread' is a term of art. It's not some big dig at you, though of course everything is about you isn't it, including when and if the forum owner decides to close a thread.
Are Rachel and Zenyatta more likely to face each other in the Woodward, or the Personal Ensign, both at Saratoga?
Parman444
02-02-2010, 12:56 PM
It better be sunny and fast,remember when Zenyatta came east last year on Derby day.The track was off and she scratched,it has to be perfect set up or she does not run. Rachel is as tough as nails,does not need to take her track with her.She would run on glass, thats why they were correct in making her horse of the year.Who ever heard of horse that never ran at Churchill,Belmont,Saratogo,or Keeneland being horse of the year?
Kimsus
02-02-2010, 01:01 PM
To 'hijack a (the) thread' is a term of art. It's not some big dig at you, though of course everything is about you isn't it, including when and if the forum owner decides to close a thread.
Are Rachel and Zenyatta more likely to face each other in the Woodward, or the Personal Ensign, both at Saratoga?
Okay, I can understand why some would not like a thread to be hijacked, though I see PA has already deleted my posts. In the future I hope we can talk freely and discuss horseracing here without the threat of "censorship" though rightfully so PA can do what he wants, it is his forum, it is his rules, in which I complimented him on running a good site, but if I can't live up to the forum rules here, which basically consists of discussing horseracing....I will gladly leave this forum. If I/we can't talk freely from a honest slant then I don't see the benefits of posting here.
But I digress...
Are Rachel and Zenyatta more likely to face each other in the Woodward, or the Personal Ensign, both at Saratoga
I am doubtful to answer your question, until I see them in the gate and that gate opens with them running out, it's hard to see if it will happen at all. Atleast they are slated for a 2010 campaign so atleast the door's not closed.
PaceAdvantage
02-02-2010, 04:38 PM
Okay, I can understand why some would not like a thread to be hijacked, though I see PA has already deleted my posts.No I didn't.
PaceAdvantage
02-02-2010, 04:43 PM
And for the record, the thread was closed because it had become painful to read, and it really had nothing to do with Rachel and her workout, which was the title of the thread. It degraded into some back-and-forth about trainers and those who might criticize them....case closed.
Now back to the topic at hand....
Kimsus
02-02-2010, 04:48 PM
No I didn't.
PA,
I stand corrected, I must have been looking at the wrong thread or something...I don't know but I'm not even going to check. I feel the thread had some value, but if others feel it had degraded I will side with the majority here.
Thanks for the explanation.
Zenyatta To Crush
02-03-2010, 12:58 AM
And for the record, the thread was closed because it had become painful to read, and it really had nothing to do with Rachel and her workout, which was the title of the thread. It degraded into some back-and-forth about trainers and those who might criticize them....case closed.
Now back to the topic at hand....
Thanks for closing that one. It was mostly just silly arguments over Steve Asmussen's training style. Everyone has their own views of the guy so I'm glad its closed now so we don't have to talk about it...for awhile.
GARY Z
02-03-2010, 04:54 AM
Anyone thinking about the age difference between the two ladies?
My opinion is that Rachel could require a far greater degree of rest
(or light training) based upon her campaign facing both the girls and
boys at various tracks and surfaces (dirt/slop except synthetic).
Hopefully she will race this year, but on the flip, if there is something amiss,
I'm sure Jess and Steve will retire her to avoid any serious injury.
joanied
02-03-2010, 01:55 PM
You got free room and board for as long as you like if you wanna come and it's at Oaklawn. All you need is gasoline $ and a few days off. I'll even feed ya.
You can relax and not do any beet farming or animal feeding either.:lol:
As for Rachel being tired after a race, it doesn't matter.........she won. What happens after the race is not of consequence. If it were, I'd be a millionaire for the ones I wagered on who ran out.... but were energetic AFTER the race they didn't win. :)
Hey Winter T....late with a reply because my computer:mad: was broken and I had to wait 4 days to get it back...I am now playing catch up here.
Ah, no beet farming or feeding critters...sounds so nice...how about no calving too:D ...we have had two calves born the last two days, er, nights, and that makes 2 down, 68 to go:faint: ...
thanks for your offer...I know it's sincere and I so appreciate it...we would have a grand ol' time, eh:jump: and I can't think of many others I'd rather be with to see Zenyatta and Rachel face off:)
Let's hope that when ever they do meet...the announcment comes with plenty of advance time so folks can plan to be there...no matter where it is...hey...how about Wyoming Downs:lol:
joanied
02-03-2010, 02:02 PM
It's also hard to argue that a horse is dead tired, or they reached her bottom, and yet she still galloped out better than the horse that everyone said was going to beat her if the race was six inches longer...
ya know...sometimes the really, really good ones, despite being exhausted, will continue to appear strong in the gallop out because they are so good and also another thing is the adrenalin factor, it's rushing through the system...she was breathing hard, but didn't appear, IMO, to be very tucked up as most exhausted horse will look...but I would bet that when they got her back to the barn, and the adrenalin rush left her system, she showed that she was a tired horse...with good reason to be.
Spalding No!
02-03-2010, 09:12 PM
I wouldn't be shocked to see a new jockey on Rachel this year...in fact, I might welcome it...
Well, one can dream, can't one? ;)
More anti-Borel fodder, this time coming from no less than John Nerud courtesy of the DRF:
"After the Woodward, I told Jess Jackson I'd never seen a performance like that in my life," Nerud said. "Not only did she overcome all the horses, she overcome a jock who set her up to have to put two sprinters away, then another horse, then hold off another older horse who couldn't get by. And he was whipping her from the sixteenth pole to the wire. Good horses don't need a whip!"
joanied
02-04-2010, 11:56 AM
More anti-Borel fodder, this time coming from no less than John Nerud courtesy of the DRF:
"After the Woodward, I told Jess Jackson I'd never seen a performance like that in my life," Nerud said. "Not only did she overcome all the horses, she overcome a jock who set her up to have to put two sprinters away, then another horse, then hold off another older horse who couldn't get by. And he was whipping her from the sixteenth pole to the wire. Good horses don't need a whip!"
I would bet that many of Nerud's horses were hit with the whip...I would really hate to see Calvin taken off Rachel...although, he does make me very nervous...I love Calvin, but his riding style with Rachel does give me pause...IMHO, he would be better off hunching down on her, pushing for all he's worth, and tapping her if necessary...now, none of us can know what he is feeling when having to ride her as he did in the Woodward...maybe with every hit, he felt her move up a bit...but, he seems to loose his body control when he does that...he's too far off the saddle and moves around too much...it looks, I don't know...sloppy....and I feel that a horse feels that movement and it's very possible to throw a horse off balance when you are moving so much. Just my thoughts.
cpitt84
02-10-2010, 01:09 AM
I am interested in going to oaklawn if RA and Zen run.
How much are tickets? Where do you buy them?
Cardus
02-10-2010, 01:21 AM
I would bet that many of Nerud's horses were hit with the whip...I would really hate to see Calvin taken off Rachel...although, he does make me very nervous...I love Calvin, but his riding style with Rachel does give me pause...IMHO, he would be better off hunching down on her, pushing for all he's worth, and tapping her if necessary...now, none of us can know what he is feeling when having to ride her as he did in the Woodward...maybe with every hit, he felt her move up a bit...but, he seems to loose his body control when he does that...he's too far off the saddle and moves around too much...it looks, I don't know...sloppy....and I feel that a horse feels that movement and it's very possible to throw a horse off balance when you are moving so much. Just my thoughts.
You've noticed this, too? He does tend to soil himself after a particularly vigorous ride.
joanied
02-10-2010, 11:50 AM
You've noticed this, too? He does tend to soil himself after a particularly vigorous ride.
:confused: Not sure what you mean by soil himself...but his off the saddle, moving around, makes me shudder...I also hate it when he gives the high sign after a win...in a head on of that, he's leaning way over to one side and I know the horse feels that unbalanced position.
But... I do love the guy:)
LRL Racing
02-10-2010, 01:07 PM
Hearing that Zenyatta was 100% sure for the Apple Blossom and that Rachel was 70% based on everything going right. Looks like 35 invites will go out for the 10 positions with Graded earnings being the final determinant. Also heard they are sold out for the day.
lamboguy
02-10-2010, 01:53 PM
Hearing that Zenyatta was 100% sure for the Apple Blossom and that Rachel was 70% based on everything going right. Looks like 35 invites will go out for the 10 positions with Graded earnings being the final determinant. Also heard they are sold out for the day.if they put up the $5million, i am told that RACHEL will be ready
wisconsin
02-10-2010, 02:00 PM
I am interested in going to oaklawn if RA and Zen run.
How much are tickets? Where do you buy them?
Reserved seats are $4.50. Got 6 front row seats on the 2nd terrace just before the finish line. Was going anyhow, but now this is simply a possible bonus. You can check out the Oaklwan website and call them toll free.
cpitt84
02-10-2010, 02:06 PM
Hearing that Zenyatta was 100% sure for the Apple Blossom and that Rachel was 70% based on everything going right. Looks like 35 invites will go out for the 10 positions with Graded earnings being the final determinant. Also heard they are sold out for the day.
Where did you get this info?
lamboguy
02-10-2010, 02:10 PM
one thing for sure this will be an exciting race who ever shows up for it. can someone please post how far the distane is for the apple blossom, i am to lazy now to look it up myself
cpitt84
02-10-2010, 02:10 PM
Reserved seats are $4.50. Got 6 front row seats on the 2nd terrace just before the finish line. Was going anyhow, but now this is simply a possible bonus. You can check out the Oaklwan website and call them toll free.
thanks! :)
wisconsin
02-10-2010, 02:12 PM
one thing for sure this will be an exciting race who ever shows up for it. can someone please post how far the distane is for the apple blossom, i am to lazy now to look it up myself
1 and 1/8 IF
1 and 1/16 if not
lamboguy
02-10-2010, 03:24 PM
1 and 1/8 IF
1 and 1/16 if notif the race is 1 1/8 i don't see RACHEL losing, she might still be that much better than the Z-lady even at a shorter distance.
Grits
02-10-2010, 03:34 PM
hhhhhhmmmmmm. Never been to Arkansas, think it might be time to make some reservations and take a trip.
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