Debunking the Archie Manning myth

[Valuist]

So hear some revisionists tell the story, he was borderline Hall of Fame. Sure, he had a lousy supporting cast. But were the Saints bad IN SPITE of him? No, that isn't true. Particularly bad was the 1974-1975 period with a combined 13 TD passes and 36 picks. Peyton clearly is 10 times the player Archie was.

[cj]

Yeah, I always laugh when Archie comes up like he was Fran Tarkenton or Johnny Unitas or something. The guy was nothing more than a serviceable NFL QB.

[proximity]

Yeah, I always laugh when Archie comes up like he was Fran Tarkenton or Johnny Unitas or something. The guy was nothing more than a serviceable NFL QB.

does anyone else here listen to fran on sports radio on mondays??

he's pretty much a straight shooter and isn't shy about saying what's on his mind. kind of refreshing.

[Valuist]

Here's the career numbers for Archie:

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/M/MannAr00.htm

[Rise Over Run]

Those are some very impressive sack totals. :lol: :lol:

[tundral]

:) .

[Steve 'StatMan']

Holy Crap! Sacked 396 times in his career! What did the refere say to the defensive front line on the first possesion? "First foursome can tee off now!"

Heard some people say in baseball you have to be a good pitcher to lose 20 games in a season - if the player was really bad, he'd get replaced. Archie Manning's teams when he started went 35-101-3. 101 losses! Was with the Saints a full 10 years.

Guess that respect must be for continuously soldiering on despite repeatedly heavy combat & enemy fire.

[Trotman]

[QUOTE=Steve 'StatMan']Holy Crap! Sacked 396 times in his career! What did the refere say to the defensive front line on the first possesion? "First foursome can tee off now!"

StatMan :lol: :lol: good one

[proximity]

hopefully the saints' failure to get him killed before he sired peyton will come back to haunt them!!

go colts!!:jump:

[sandpit]

Those are some very impressive sack totals. :lol: :lol:

Reminded me of poor Tim Couch in his first couple of years with the Browns. In his first two full seasons (injury shortened season two to seven games), he got dumped 107 times! No wonder the dude only lasted five years.

[Greyfox]

] The guy was nothing more than a serviceable NFL QB.

Probably true, but a serviceable NFL QB has to have one "hell of a lot of
talent" toget there. I wished that I'd have been able to be a "serviceable NFL QB"..fine by me. No hard feelings that my play in flag football never received the attention that it should have.

[dav4463]

I saw Archie play. He had to pass almost all the time because they were always behind. He could make some incredible plays, running and passing. Talent-wise, he was as good as anyone out there and he never quit despite taking a ton of hits. Put Archie behind a good line and he probably would be a hall of fame type QB.

[Valuist]

Here's a link to QB "adjusted win/loss records". They tracked all QBs with 50 or more starts since 1950. Archie came in dead last (ironically Peyton is ranked # 1).

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/blog/?p=1868

[46zilzal]

The Saints have been the worst franchise in the NFL until recently. Archie went entire seasons with his arm in a cast. They were pitiful for decades.

[ElKabong]

Archie was easily one of the best 10 QB's I ever saw in college. Ole Miss had nothing when he was there & they were a top 10 team for awhile. Hard to do with just one guy.

I do remember him in the nfl very well. The Saints were far worse than anything you see today, competitive wise. I believe it was 1971 when he beat the Cowboys (super bowl winner that yr) all by himself. He would have been special if he had avg talent around him. He had a cannon and could run.

Over rated QB's of that day were Kilmer and Kapp, both played for exceptionally talented & well coached teams. Tough guys for sure, but put either of them at QB for a team like the Saints and they'd go 0-14 every year.

While I'm one of the few here to pump sunshine on old QB's, I'll add the great John Brodie and Don Meredith to the list of great QB's never to win anything. Brodie got more out of talent than you would ever expect, and Meredith took a lethal beating in Landry's offense when Landry didn't yet understand how to protect a qb in his play calling (almost every pass was a 5-7 step drop, minimum protection by sending out both RB's in routes, etc). Both were special. Really special.

[Lasix67]

Kilmer actually played for the Saints until he realized he needed to get the hell out for his own safety.

[NJ Stinks]

I agree completely with those who have come to praise Archie. Unlike when Carolina and Jacksonville came into the league in the '90's, the Saints were given just about zero to start out with. Archie was amazing all considered.

Back in Archie's day - like Elkabong said - just about every team in the NFL had a great QB. Guys like Dan Fouts, Jim Hart, Roman Gabriel - the league was loaded with talent at the QB position. Today is much different. Maybe a half-dozen QB's are worth the price of admission.

[rastajenk]

Terry Bradshaw, Bob Griese, Ken Anderson, Roger the Dodger, Scramblin' Fran, to name a few more from back then.

[Overlay]

Yeah, I always laugh when Archie comes up like he was Fran Tarkenton or Johnny Unitas or something. The guy was nothing more than a serviceable NFL QB.

Don't tell that to the Ole Miss faithful! ;)

The Ballad of Archie Who (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6cDsNxjbVLI)

[Valuist]

I agree completely with those who have come to praise Archie. Unlike when Carolina and Jacksonville came into the league in the '90's, the Saints were given just about zero to start out with. Archie was amazing all considered.

Back in Archie's day - like Elkabong said - just about every team in the NFL had a great QB. Guys like Dan Fouts, Jim Hart, Roman Gabriel - the league was loaded with talent at the QB position. Today is much different. Maybe a half-dozen QB's are worth the price of admission.

Jim Hart was definitely NOT great. His career numbers are average, if not below average: 66.6 QB rating, TD/INT ratio of 209-247 and career win loss record of 87-88. That is mediocre.

Gabriel was a bit better. 74 QB rating, a decent TD/INT ratio of 201-146 and a career win loss record of 86-64.

Fouts made the HoF basically for three consecutive dominant seasons (1979-1981). The rest of his career was ok, but not spectacular. He happened to play for a coach (Don Coryell) who LOVED to throw the ball a lot, and he was the main beneficiary. That isn't to say he was bad; but he shouldn't be mentioned in the same breath with a guy like Staubach. Fouts numbers: 80.2 QB rating, 254-242 TD/Int ratio and career win loss of 86-84.

[Rookies]

Yeah, I always laugh when Archie comes up like he was Fran Tarkenton or Johnny Unitas or something. The guy was nothing more than a serviceable NFL QB.

And what a "service " it was- CJ. Sired two SB QB Winners as sons and the third boy wasn't a stiff on the gridiron too ! :)

He's the freaking Northern Dancer of the NFL... :D

[pandy]

I saw Archie play. He had to pass almost all the time because they were always behind. He could make some incredible plays, running and passing. Talent-wise, he was as good as anyone out there and he never quit despite taking a ton of hits. Put Archie behind a good line and he probably would be a hall of fame type QB.

I agree, he appeared to have talent but he played on horrible teams.