Horse Racing, a dying model?

[Horsepicker]

I've seen some threads here about problems with racing, maybe its just a dying model if you are either not a fan or would consider horseracing pretty low on a list of gambling options.

How do you get people interested in something they have no interest in?

Back in the day, horseracing was king.

Now , its too much competition from movies, dvds, pod-cast, cable/satellite shows, computers, on-line betting, otb's, indian casinos, more sports, t.v. shows, more casinos being built, but most of all, Big industries that cornered the market for so long getting sloppy and and attempting to adjust way too late, like newspapers.

For instance, I don't like hockey or soccer. You can watch it on t.v., you can attend the games, you can bet it, there's video games...., not interested in the least.

I, right now, can't think of anything , even if I tried to help, to get me interested and a patron of hockey and soccer.

The first step for racing, I think, is to firmly secure the patrons they DO have, and eliminate any practices that keep patrons from patronizing less or completely run away in general.

That means you REALLY have to KNOW your market and supporters.

The next step , once you secured somewhat the return of your patrons numbers, have strategies to get them to participate EVEN MORE.

Again, you have to know your market AND your product.

All the college degrees in the world can't teach you that.....you got to learn or hire master marketers that has impeccable records of proven success in a variety of industries.

Look what the NBA has done, thanks in addition to ShowTime vs Celtics legendary game play, but it was the "change" in marketing attitude that got the league to grow its numbers in leaps and bounds, besides getting charasmatic/talented players.

UFC/MMA giving "PEOPLE WHAT THEY WANT", marketing again, giving boxing, another entity losing its numbers, a run for their money as far as competition, not quite there yet, but momentum is in their favor.

Through their corporate bumbling and arrogance, the horseracing industry will be lucky to even have some of the success of bumbling NBC executives replacing Johnny Carson with Jay Leno.

The Product, Johnny Carson, via The Tonight Show, had so much overpowering momentum and force, that that transition was semi-successful, despite their idiotic decision making.

Its like trying to stop a freight train at 300 miles an hour, even if you slammed on the brakes to try and stop it, it will take a while just based on the past force of its momentum, THAT'S how talented Johnny was compared to Leno.

A product, The Tonight Show, that virtually ran itself, thanks to Johnny, they should have let Johnny die in the chair and let him leave completely when he felt like it. They'll N-E-V-E-R get Johnny Carson numbers again, ever, with The Tonight Show.

Not knowing your product or market.

With this type of Corporate bumbling, its a wonder why our economy is not worse.

Horsepicker

[Stillriledup]

Racing has a lot more problems than NON problems. One thing they've never been known for is to being a company who's 'connected' to their customers.

You have all heard the words 'necessary evil' that is how racings customers are treated. When you walk into the racetracks across America, there's this feeling of 'us against you'. There's no feeling that if you have a question, there is a place you can go to ask. I've never had any feeling that the racetrack was there to help me, even though they take 20 cents from every dollar i wager.

Higher ups in racetrack management need to walk the grandstand floors and introduce themselves to all the regulars and make sure they have everything they need. There's really no excuse for them not to. What do they do? Sit in their office making a nice salary and pretend to work? Why not walk the floors of your track and figure out who the usual customers are? Every track you attend you know there are the same people you see all the time. I'll even be willing to bet that some of you who are reading my words are regulars at your OWN racetrack. Have you, Mr Regular, ever had a GM come up to you and say "i see you here all the time, what's your name" Bill? Hi bill, i'm Jim, i'm the GM here. I just want to say thank you. Thank you for your business and being a great customer. Here's my card, if there's anything you need, feel free to call me"

And, guess what? Its FREE. Yep, that GM giving a good customer his card doesnt' cost 1 penny for the racetrack. Not one penny, yet it would create amazing good will.

[Relwob Owner]

Racing has a lot more problems than NON problems. One thing they've never been known for is to being a company who's 'connected' to their customers.

You have all heard the words 'necessary evil' that is how racings customers are treated. When you walk into the racetracks across America, there's this feeling of 'us against you'. There's no feeling that if you have a question, there is a place you can go to ask. I've never had any feeling that the racetrack was there to help me, even though they take 20 cents from every dollar i wager.

Higher ups in racetrack management need to walk the grandstand floors and introduce themselves to all the regulars and make sure they have everything they need. There's really no excuse for them not to. What do they do? Sit in their office making a nice salary and pretend to work? Why not walk the floors of your track and figure out who the usual customers are? Every track you attend you know there are the same people you see all the time. I'll even be willing to bet that some of you who are reading my words are regulars at your OWN racetrack. Have you, Mr Regular, ever had a GM come up to you and say "i see you here all the time, what's your name" Bill? Hi bill, i'm Jim, i'm the GM here. I just want to say thank you. Thank you for your business and being a great customer. Here's my card, if there's anything you need, feel free to call me"

And, guess what? Its FREE. Yep, that GM giving a good customer his card doesnt' cost 1 penny for the racetrack. Not one penny, yet it would create amazing good will.



Nice post. The amazing thing is that in the grandstands of some tracks, all you see are the higherups yukking it up with the horsemen, paying no attention to any of the customers in attendance. Granted, there arent many customers because many grandstands are so dingy and outdated that noone would want to sit in them anyways. There have been several times where I have seen groups of folks wandering in with no idea of what to do and I have actually explained things to them....sad how little effort that takes and how much it helps things. These GM's and racing officials think that the slots wiill prop them up forever and will only learn when the racing side of things goes away....

[Stillriledup]

Nice post. The amazing thing is that in the grandstands of some tracks, all you see are the higherups yukking it up with the horsemen, paying no attention to any of the customers in attendance. Granted, there arent many customers because many grandstands are so dingy and outdated that noone would want to sit in them anyways. There have been several times where I have seen groups of folks wandering in with no idea of what to do and I have actually explained things to them....sad how little effort that takes and how much it helps things. These GM's and racing officials think that the slots wiill prop them up forever and will only learn when the racing side of things goes away....

Thanks.

I guarantee you that if i worked for a racetrack, the good customers would know my name and i would know theirs.

[Horsepicker]

Higher ups in racetrack management need to walk the grandstand floors and introduce themselves to all the regulars and make sure they have everything they need.

Have you, Mr Regular, ever had a GM come up to you and say "i see you here all the time, what's your name" Bill? Hi bill, i'm Jim, i'm the GM here. I just want to say thank you. Thank you for your business and being a great customer. Here's my card, if there's anything you need, feel free to call me"

And, guess what? Its FREE.




Las Vegas is having its troubles, economy and all, also. But I think they had trouble before the economy, or at least the numbers were tapering down.

Old Timers say "old Vegas", before Corporate took over, treated a person just like the quote above.

They say it was one of the few places, in the old days and when the mob ran it, that Joe Nobody was treated like a celebrity AND they knew you by name.

There you are, in old Vegas, no one knows you and "the boys" treated you like you owned the hotel, the kind of respect you could hardly get anywhere else unless you were a millionaire.

So even if you lost your money, you felt like somebody, from what I hear of the "old Vegas".

Thats why people would drive and fly down there to lose their money, they were treated with high class.

And the payouts were better, too.

Actually "seeing" the money fall out all over the place was a kinetic reaction to passersby that encouraged gambling, not like the "fake" electronic sound they have now, sounds like a freakin security breach Def Con 3 level.

Horsepicker

[sandpit]

Nice post. The amazing thing is that in the grandstands of some tracks, all you see are the higherups yukking it up with the horsemen, paying no attention to any of the customers in attendance. Granted, there arent many customers because many grandstands are so dingy and outdated that noone would want to sit in them anyways. There have been several times where I have seen groups of folks wandering in with no idea of what to do and I have actually explained things to them....sad how little effort that takes and how much it helps things. These GM's and racing officials think that the slots wiill prop them up forever and will only learn when the racing side of things goes away....

I won't name the track, but I worked at one of the major tracks in this country for over a decade. I was never a "higher-up", but my jobs afforded me the luxury of being able to wander around and mingle with the live race crowds. It's amazing how many people come into racetrack and have no clue about what to do, where to go, etc. What's more amazing, is that the place I worked was even more clueless that there were customers like that. Furthermore, most of the full-time employees hated when the race meet was going on, because that meant extra work hours, weekends, inconvenient parking, etc. I didn't understand that mentality when I started there, but then I came to realize that nearly no one working was a racing fan.

So, my way of combatting the apathy was to talk to customers whenever they looked like they had questions. Ended up being one of the favorite parts of my job, even if it wasn't in the general description.

[Greyfox]

I've known 7 horse players in the last year who have died, all were 50 and over..
I haven't seen any young people come in and replace them, not that they could be replaced from a personal perspective.
Dying? I'd have to be an idiot, in spite of my interest in the sport, to not see it happening.
Where I bet, the average age is easily over 50 and grey. Fact.
I would love to see young people take up the game. It ain't happening.

[price]

Pari-Mutuel wagering is outdated. So is the morning paper.

The morning paper still has elements that will have value in a new delivery and revenue system. I feel that Horse Racing will have to go through similar changes in order to embrace the future. Nobody hates racinos and the welfare mentality they have created in "the industry" but even dumb ol me can see the sport cannot survive as stand alone pari mutuel business model. Those days are gone forever.

[appistappis]

In my local otb on friday, I was the youngest guy in the place......about 50 guys in there, no women.
I'm 54

[thaskalos]

Just because there are no young people present at the track or the OTBs doesn't mean that younger horseplayers are not betting online. What younger person is free between noon and 5 pm on weekdays to go bet the horses. Younger people have jobs and financial responsibilities to meet. Weekends are spent with the family. Retirees are the only ones who can frequent the races live.

[Citation1947]

boxing, another entity losing its numbers


Boxing fans began walking away mainly for two reasons. Wide spread corruption(thanks Don King) and too many sanctioning organizations each crowning their own champions.
You could probably add to the mix a lack of the best fighting the best during the eighties and ninties as top fighters avoided one another for much of their career.

This seems similar to horse racing. Tons of corruption, especially with all the dope trainers(pretenders with no real horsemanship skills whatsoever). Way too many tracks cheapens the product, same as what they are currently debating about the NBA and there being too many teams.

And the lack of lasting rivalries(which is a huge draw) as top horses retire left and right to the breeding shed well before their time. That greed is killing the whole meaning of the term "race" horse or horse "racing"

[Horsepicker]

I didn't understand that mentality when I started there, but then I came to realize that nearly no one working was a racing fan.



How about that? What a surprise...., not.

These corporate douches are too greedy to hand it over to someone or group who really knows and care about racing, cowboys and folks that care, had real pride in their product, skilled craftsman of a lost art.....at least lost over here, maybe in Europe they still have old school ways.

Too bad the old school trainers, breeders, jockeys, etc., did not all come together and buy out the industry, someone who knows racing and horses.

Probably too late for that now, as was mentioned, hardly any trainers, breeders left with true horsemanship skills and care, horse dope users as training skill.

Same as boxing, all the old school trainers dying, retired , gone and you got these new jack trainers that don't know or can't spot talent if it shot'em in the face point blank with a bazooka and have no skills worth to speak of to shape and create great type of fighters as we had in the past that drew in fans.......paq should be the rule, not the exception.

Most trainers are into squeezing just enough "mileage" out the fresh meat to pad their pockets.

Funny how the new jack boxing trainers and horse trainers have the same mantra..."squeeze all you can, as many as you can, as fast as you can , by any means necessary..."

Thats one of the main reasons the major industries and giants are crumbling because of greedy, clueless, could'nt care less type of jokers are at the helm, steering these once mighty titans of industry.

Horsepicker

[Horsepicker]

And another thing, which may get me to go to the track more and inspiring more youngsters....

....how about a pet-type zoo of various thoroughbreds, or learn how to ride, or how to brush a horse, or horse riding lessons, or mule riding lessons, or contest for the best kid mule/horse riders like the NFL has kid winners of contest before the start of a playoff game?

Imagine that, learn to ride a horse at a racetrack, how novel.

How bout that just for starters?

This , from a neophyte.

And people with the big, corporate titles and salaries , got what, for ideas, "...sorry, I got nuthin to make racing better and fan friendly.."

No plan to even get kids or new people in the stands, wow.

Horsepicker

[citygoat]

I hate seeing kids at the track.I just want to be able to make my bets,watch the race and make some noise.The individual televisions are nice but every track should have one area with a giant screen that can either run the next race running or focus on the track of the day.Tracks are much too isolated and library like these days.Having the days results easily viewed would also be a help.

I always wanted a NYRA room,a Florida room,a Kentucky room, and the second tier tracks room.Everytime I take a friend to the track I spend most of my time explaining which track is on the screen and no that isn't our race it is another track and who do we have in this race.After an hour they just give up and usually say they just want to give me their money and bet what I bet.Always screws up my fresh eyes angle.

[lamboguy]

horseracing is not dying, the people that have supported it in the past are, and the stupid people running the show are brain dead.

i know how to increase racing handles at belmont park on all saturdays that they run there to at least $100 million for the day without lowering the takeout. i think i could even double the ontrack attendance within 5 years.

[Horseplayersbet.com]

horseracing is not dying, the people that have supported it in the past are, and the stupid people running the show are brain dead.

i know how to increase racing handles at belmont park on all saturdays that they run there to at least $100 million for the day without lowering the takeout. i think i could even double the ontrack attendance within 5 years.
You have to agree that more players in 2009 got rebates over 2008. That was extra money churned, yet horse racing handle was still down 10%. Take the extra rebating out, and racing would be down even more.

Racing is dying slowly.

There is really no reason for any new blood to start up and play.

Unlike poker, we have no visible winners. There needs to be a carrot stick for newbies to play.

[lamboguy]

the only thing keeping the racing game alive now are rebates. but that will not last forever. you could pay people to play this sport and they would not bet it. there are lots of structural problems witht he sport. much like baseball in the early 70's or football before television contracts, and hockey and tennis and every other sport. there are always peaks and valley's.

the 2 biggest components of what is wrong with the racing game are the lack of admission and understanding that the sport is heading towards hell, and more importantly the people running the game got no clue.

we lost one of the greatest people the sport ever had, JIM MCKAY. he was an avid fan of the game and promoted and pushed it. he would not allow for the game to fail. i have not seen anyone else like him step up to the plate and try to fill his big shoes.

BILL NADER is a very highly intelligent man, he knew the problems of the sport and was able to adress a few of them. now he got paid big money to go to HONG KONG and use his skills. HONG KONG is growing and we are dying

[Relwob Owner]

What a depressing, but unfortunately true thread this is.....question-last year, that Halsey Minor(sp?) guy was rumored to be getting involved in the sport. At the time, I was skeptical but at this point, I would be up for any young, entrepreneurial type to take over in some way.....There is no doubt that our sport is dying a slow death and it seems to me that a total overhaul is the only thing that can help.........

[domino1891]

What a depressing, but unfortunately true thread this is.....question-last year, that Halsey Minor(sp?) guy was rumored to be getting involved in the sport. At the time, I was skeptical but at this point, I would be up for any young, entrepreneurial type to take over in some way.....There is no doubt that our sport is dying a slow death and it seems to me that a total overhaul is the only thing that can help.........

Halsey Minor may be like the old grey mare......ain't what he used to be.

Beyer article in April http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/04/10/AR2009041001651.html

December article http://www.businessinsider.com/rumors-cnets-founder-is-going-broke-wont-go-away-2009-12

Jan 4 article http://www.nbcbayarea.com/news/local-beat/CNET-Millionaire-Losing-the-Farm-jw-80654962.html

[Relwob Owner]

Halsey Minor may be like the old grey mare......ain't what he used to be.

Beyer article in April http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/04/10/AR2009041001651.html

December article http://www.businessinsider.com/rumors-cnets-founder-is-going-broke-wont-go-away-2009-12

Jan 4 article http://www.nbcbayarea.com/news/local-beat/CNET-Millionaire-Losing-the-Farm-jw-80654962.html


Thanks for the info....I guess that explains why i havent heard him getting involved in racing! Lots of talk and bravado but classic example of a guy who is successful in one industry and then thinks he can carry that success over to other areas of business.

[badcompany]

You have to agree that more players in 2009 got rebates over 2008. That was extra money churned, yet horse racing handle was still down 10%. Take the extra rebating out, and racing would be down even more.

Racing is dying slowly.

There is really no reason for any new blood to start up and play.

Unlike poker, we have no visible winners. There needs to be a carrot stick for newbies to play.

Good post.

Basically, two problems need to be corrected for the kids who play poker and bet football to give horseracing a shot:

1. Profitability - You can't have only 2% of the players showing a long term profit. Obviously, lower takeouts and rebates can create a higher percentage of winners.

2. Accessibility - The tracks need to stop acting as though they have an exclusive product and that horseplayers should be honored just to be allowed to bet on the races. All tracks should have pdf versions of their programs available, for free, online. It's not as though the tracks make a ton selling these things, anyway. In addition, all tracks should stream their races live.

[Robert Fischer]

everything is related to the mass media broadcast or lack there of.

when the TV tells everyone in a high quality way to bet on horses, they will.

Right now horseracing doesn't act as one big family for the broadcast effort situation

[Greyfox]

circa 1930 Thoroughbred track


http://www.kilduffs.com/Sports_85_Baltimore_PimlicoRaceTrack_1920s.jpg

Circa 2009 Thoroughbred track

http://imgs.sfgate.com/c/pictures/2008/12/18/ba-track19_0499575538.jpg.

[Indulto]

http://viewfromthegrandstand.blogspot.com/2010/01/big-changes-coming-to-new-jersey.html (http://viewfromthegrandstand.blogspot.com/2010/01/big-changes-coming-to-new-jersey.html)
Big Changes Coming to New Jersey?
by Pacingguy1/23/2010… The goal of the proposals is to make racing self-sufficient without any state subsidies. While you may read the entire report here (http://www.state.nj.us/governor/news/reports/Gaming,%20Sports,%20and%20Entertainments.pdf), here is my take of what this ultimately means should the proposals be implemented.

• There will be no VLTs or sports betting at New Jersey race tracks.
• There will be a significant cut in the number of racing days in New Jersey for all breeds.
• Purses will no longer be artificially inflated.
• While not specifically mentioned, the days of racing at Freehold Raceway may be numbered.
• The Hambletonian will be looking for a new home.
• The long term goal is to redevelop the Meadowlands and move all racing to Monmouth Park.

Conspicuously absent from the report is any mention of VLTs at any of the race tracks. The report also removes sports wagering from the equation. The report specifically indicates no attempt should be made to introduce intra-state Internet or sports wagering until Federal statute changes.

The report indicates that legislative changes are required to eliminate the current requirement of racing a certain number of days. It is unclear if it calls for just modifying the number of days or eliminating the requirement completely. The report also calls for horsemen agreements to be reopened and renegotiated in terms of racing days and purse structure. Thoroughbred racing at the Meadowlands would cease and Monmouth Park would race a fifty day thoroughbred meet at Monmouth Park. With the removal of the thoroughbred meet from the Meadowlands calendar, there would be more flexibility for the Meadowlands in its scheduling of a standardbred meet.

Being the report calls for the end of state subsidies after the 2010 calendar year, the Meadowlands will not be able to support the stakes program it currently maintains as wagering will dictate the size of the purse account. It is safe to assume there will no longer be 180 day race meets so overnight purse cuts may not be as severe as they would be if there was no cut in racing days. However, it seems unavoidable that the Meadowlands will be losing its position as the number one track.

… the sad truth is the report is dealing with reality. It is time people deal with the fact there is too much racing going on; more than the industry can support and more than there is demand for. The report states the obvious; the industry cannot expect cash-strapped state governments to continue to subsidize the industry (something states with VLTs will eventually have to face). Stakeholders in the industry are going to be forced to make the tough decisions they have been unwilling to make.

… If horsemen agree to reduce racing days and accept lower purses, racing will survive. If the horsemen are unwilling to do so, the industry will continue to decline and eventually cease to exist. A strong industry does not necessarily mean ‘big’; it means it is able to sustain itself. Track management and horsemen are going to have to make changes to make the sport competitive in the market. It can be done. There needs to be a willingness to do so. …

[PaceAdvantage]

circa 1930 Thoroughbred track


http://www.kilduffs.com/Sports_85_Baltimore_PimlicoRaceTrack_1920s.jpg
If they had the Internet in 1930, there would be a lot less hats in that picture...for starters...

[PaceAdvantage]

In my local otb on friday, I was the youngest guy in the place......about 50 guys in there, no women.
I'm 54This has been said for ages. I remember when I was first starting to get into racing around 1987, I would hear about how it's this aging fan base...how do we attract more women and young people....

Same ol' same ol'.

Most tracks run during the daytime on weekdays when the vast majority of your "younger people" are either going to school or working. They're not going to be at the track or the OTB hanging out for a few hours. It's never been this way.

The racetrack has always been a place of "characters," "neer-do-wells," and "retirees."

The real trick is in getting the young folks of today and turning them into racing fans as they age.

Guys like me, who were becoming hardcore racing fans when they were 18 or even younger are a rarity and always have been.

[Cratos]

I've seen some threads here about problems with racing, maybe its just a dying model if you are either not a fan or would consider horseracing pretty low on a list of gambling options.

How do you get people interested in something they have no interest in?

Back in the day, horseracing was king.

Now , its too much competition from movies, dvds, pod-cast, cable/satellite shows, computers, on-line betting, otb's, indian casinos, more sports, t.v. shows, more casinos being built, but most of all, Big industries that cornered the market for so long getting sloppy and and attempting to adjust way too late, like newspapers.

For instance, I don't like hockey or soccer. You can watch it on t.v., you can attend the games, you can bet it, there's video games...., not interested in the least.

I, right now, can't think of anything , even if I tried to help, to get me interested and a patron of hockey and soccer.

The first step for racing, I think, is to firmly secure the patrons they DO have, and eliminate any practices that keep patrons from patronizing less or completely run away in general.

That means you REALLY have to KNOW your market and supporters.

The next step , once you secured somewhat the return of your patrons numbers, have strategies to get them to participate EVEN MORE.

Again, you have to know your market AND your product.

All the college degrees in the world can't teach you that.....you got to learn or hire master marketers that has impeccable records of proven success in a variety of industries.

Look what the NBA has done, thanks in addition to ShowTime vs Celtics legendary game play, but it was the "change" in marketing attitude that got the league to grow its numbers in leaps and bounds, besides getting charasmatic/talented players.

UFC/MMA giving "PEOPLE WHAT THEY WANT", marketing again, giving boxing, another entity losing its numbers, a run for their money as far as competition, not quite there yet, but momentum is in their favor.

Through their corporate bumbling and arrogance, the horseracing industry will be lucky to even have some of the success of bumbling NBC executives replacing Johnny Carson with Jay Leno.

The Product, Johnny Carson, via The Tonight Show, had so much overpowering momentum and force, that that transition was semi-successful, despite their idiotic decision making.

Its like trying to stop a freight train at 300 miles an hour, even if you slammed on the brakes to try and stop it, it will take a while just based on the past force of its momentum, THAT'S how talented Johnny was compared to Leno.

A product, The Tonight Show, that virtually ran itself, thanks to Johnny, they should have let Johnny die in the chair and let him leave completely when he felt like it. They'll N-E-V-E-R get Johnny Carson numbers again, ever, with The Tonight Show.

Not knowing your product or market.

With this type of Corporate bumbling, its a wonder why our economy is not worse.

Horsepicker

I agree that the horseracing business model is in trouble and has been since the inception of horseracing in the United States.

The trouble stems from government (particularly state government) being involved.

In the past and I do mean in the past the primary fan sports in America was Baseball, Boxing, and Horseracing.

However, none of those three sports paid attention to their fan base and the technological changes in bringing their respective sport to their customers in a more modern and efficient manner. Although, I will give baseball credit for turning itself around after the last strike in major league baseball.

But boxing and horseracing did little or nothing and their fan base eroded as other options became available to the sports fan and that option was technologically in step with the time.

Looking specifically at horseracing, a sport that has been on the American sports scene for over 125 years; didn’t get an official keeper of their performance records until the 1990s and still today cannot decide between the common fraction or the decimal fraction in the timing of a race.

But the real problem as alluded too earlier in this post is government involvement.

All racetracks should be privatized such that each owner can run and manage their business however they like to make a profit. The government oversight should the same as it is given for IBM, GE, or any other corporation (big and small). The “take” percent that the various governments get today can come in the form of a licensing fee and structured such that it will grow or increase with respect to the profitability of the racetrack.

[Greyfox]

If they had the Internet in 1930, there would be a lot less hats in that picture...for starters...

Yes. They'd all be at home playing on their computers. :lol: :lol: :lol:

[miesque]

What a depressing, but unfortunately true thread this is.....question-last year, that Halsey Minor(sp?) guy was rumored to be getting involved in the sport. At the time, I was skeptical but at this point, I would be up for any young, entrepreneurial type to take over in some way.....There is no doubt that our sport is dying a slow death and it seems to me that a total overhaul is the only thing that can help.........

Ah Halsey, well, lets just say there is this partially built shell of a building of his which is supposed to be a luxury hotel which now sits as an eyesore several blocks from my office and a block from where I get my facials and two blocks from where I get my hair done and is also on my 2-3 time a week lunch time walk circuit. So based on the activity or lack there of in that major investment of his (in his what is in many ways his home town and all the other stuff listed in the various articles), I would not be expecting him to be taking any sort of material racetrack ownership roles in the near future.

[Horsepicker]

These big shots have no ideas.

I have neither heard or have heard of them implore their patrons,fans and people that care about the industry for a major conference or a couple of public pow-wows, or serious brainstorming.

How about'cha pick a lottery winner from losing tickets or something?

What about using lottery tactics or dovetailing lottery tactics into horseracing?

A: you have to secure the hardcore race fans

B: you have to have realistic strategies to get NEW people interested , excited and looking forward to racing , like lotteries and poker has done.

How 'bout they do like Auto Racing has done and put cameras on the horse or something, to stimulate the market like Auto Racing has done?

What about stepping up ownership, or points bet on a certain horse that qualifies patrons for ownership and a stake in the horse or barn winning or something?

How about a ScottTrade type of commercial or set-up showing either as a bettor or stable/group owner type investor, their are some tangible returns, feasible retirement supplement planning with the thoroughbred industries or something?

Even if some of these are not feasible, or moranically unrealistic, least theres more effort here than what impotent implementations they have come up with.

These guys don't think out the box, rather, they are stepping all over it.

Like someone else said, the people that run and are employed in racing really don't like racing or its patrons, its just a necessary evil to get a check, like working at a labor pool or something, 'cept with a lot more, much more cash to their fat, UN-earned corporate salaries.

They used to be able to get away with that, because they were the only game in town.

This is the 21st Century, wake up, slackers.

Horsepicker

[Stillriledup]

This thread can also be named: Horse Dying, a racing model.

[thespaah]

:1: Poor or mon marketing by racetrack managements
:2:Interjursidictional squablling for the best racing dates
:3: too much competition for the gambling dollar
:4: younger people's desire for instant gratification coupled wiht very short attention span
:5: State governments that merely tolerate pari-mutuel racing
:6: Too many racing facilities in close geographic proximity operating simultaneously
:7: Horsemen's associations illogical decisions regarding simulcasting/distribution of wagering dollars
:8: lack of a single nationwide racing authority
:9: racetrack staffs that treat customers like stall muck

[badcompany]

Ironically, the Spaah is one of the few places where horseracing is what it could be. Lots of young people and women, all of them seeming to have a great time.

[PaceAdvantage]

Yes. They'd all be at home playing on their computers. :lol: :lol: :lol:I don't get the multiple emoticons and the "give your head a shake" comment. Exactly why did my reply deserve this sort of response?

[Greyfox]

I don't get the multiple emoticons and the "give your head a shake" comment. Exactly why did my reply deserve this sort of response?

A "Wobbly pop" influence at the time. It's funny what seems funny on those occasions. No malice intended.

[Horsepicker]

:9: racetrack staffs that treat customers like stall muck



Yeah, they should'nt make you feel like some low-life crumb snatcher.

Should'nt look at and make you feel like some scum bucket "John" at a 3rd world country , E-Coli infested strip club soliciting for some action....

....or like some 4th class citizen lookin for a freebie, although you are paying for EVERYTHING in cold, hard cash.

Sorry to inconvenience you, race track staffer.

Horsepicker

[thespaah]

Ironically, the Spaah is one of the few places where horseracing is what it could be. Lots of young people and women, all of them seeming to have a great time.Keeneland as well!!!

[thespaah]

Yeah, they should'nt make you feel like some low-life crumb snatcher.

Should'nt look at and make you feel like some scum bucket "John" at a 3rd world country , E-Coli infested strip club soliciting for some action....

....or like some 4th class citizen lookin for a freebie, although you are paying for EVERYTHING in cold, hard cash.

Sorry to inconvenience you, race track staffer.

HorsepickerMe? Racetrack staffer?
Or were you posting in a figurative sense?

[Horsepicker]

Me? Racetrack staffer?
Or were you posting in a figurative sense?



Not you at all.

[Niko]

This has been said for ages. I remember when I was first starting to get into racing around 1987, I would hear about how it's this aging fan base...how do we attract more women and young people....

Same ol' same ol'.

Most tracks run during the daytime on weekdays when the vast majority of your "younger people" are either going to school or working. They're not going to be at the track or the OTB hanging out for a few hours. It's never been this way.

The racetrack has always been a place of "characters," "neer-do-wells," and "retirees."

The real trick is in getting the young folks of today and turning them into racing fans as they age.

Guys like me, who were becoming hardcore racing fans when they were 18 or even younger are a rarity and always have been.

I agree and have stated before that horse racing could be missing out on their "golden" opportunity.

You have a lot of people that are getting older, that have money, have time and probably a lot that have pretty fond memories of horse racing. If horse racing does not take advantage of the next 5-10 years with the largest and richest retiring population ever they've missed the biggest opportunity they'll ever have in the near term.

If you go to Canterbury on a Thursday or Friday night there are more young people than old. They love the beer and food specials and live racing. But just about everyone expects to lose and a fair number feel racing is filled with drugs etc so the boxing analogy is pretty good. You need younger fans to have a good experience at the track, WIN ONCE IN A WHILE and then spend more time at the track when their kids are older and they have a little more money.

[flewsfiggsfigure]

Too many poor sports, complainers and nay sayers, I wish they would realise that there ignorant comments cast the sport in a negative light. You will often see people without a high school education trying to sound like vets. A good example is a group of trainers at Penn National, who are trying to better themselves by putting Micheal Gill down (DRF 1/25/10), if they keep creating stigma toward horse racing, they may all find themselves out of a job.

[Indulto]

Too many poor sports, complainers and nay sayers, I wish they would realise that there ignorant comments cast the sport in a negative light. You will often see people without a high school education trying to sound like vets. A good example is a group of trainers at Penn National, who are trying to better themselves by putting Micheal Gill down (DRF 1/25/10), if they keep creating stigma toward horse racing, they may all find themselves out of a job.Too many willing to accept the status quo controlled by the corrupt and the clueless. Until both horseplayers and horsemen can compete on level playing fields at venues operated and regulated by reasonable, competent people that treat all participants with respect, you can expect more of the same.

[46zilzal]

I am as frustrated as the next guy, probably even more so because from INSIDE of the profession, I can see all manner of POTENTIAL, but the CLOWNS running the show won't even entertain the idea of educating the people who walk through the door everyday to the unique nature of our form of gambling where, with study, you actually have a chance to win.

They DO NOTHING to inform people of the negative expectation of all manner of casino games as compared with the pleasure and selectivity of the parimutuel game. I suppose their BOTTOM LINE would be hurting if the word got out!

Grab the newly interested, the older fans who need a re-introduction to the basics, go out in the neighborhood and put in clinics to excite people to the lore and pageantry, history and excitement of the game, even set up "classes" in community college night courses (like Cramer did) to let people know that THIS game is UNIQUE and DIFFERENT than the mindless pushing of buttons sitting on your dead butt.

Offer real incentives to come out to the track or at least at home. PUT ON MORE LOCAL TELEVISION COVERAGE other than the Derby each year.

We are more fortunate than many other venues with a weekly show put on by a knowledgeable ex-jockey and a good production crew Tommy Wolksi's Sport of Kings which keeps the unique and inside look at behind the scenes to those who have no idea what really goes on. He has done shows about the assistant starters, the stewards, riders, grooms, hot walkers, reviews old races, talks to parimutuel managers etc etc to keep racing ALIVE and does it well as he won a Sovereign Award a few years back. He also covers standardbreds in the Winter and writes a weekly news column....ONE of the only ones.

[Relwob Owner]

There are multiple factors affecting racing and I acknowledge that.....however, I do think that basic customer service is a huge factor.

On Wednesday, I went to Charlestown with a friend of mine who doesnt go the actual track much and was introduced to the game through TVG, betting from home for the most part.....we sat down in the dining room, got a very nice waitress, ordered some food and watched the races. The food was awesome and after the meal, the chef came out and asked how everything was for us. He also explained the progress with the table games and where everything was going to be located. When we were leaving, my friend, about 31, said he was going to tell his buddies how awesome it was to come to the track and that it was better than just sitting at home watching the races......if this sort of experience was had by people going to the track, I think it would help a lot.

[Greyfox]

I am as frustrated as the next guy, probably even more so because from INSIDE of the profession, I can see all manner of POTENTIAL, but the CLOWNS running the show won't even entertain the idea of educating the people who walk through the door everyday to the unique nature of our form of gambling where, with study, you actually have a chance to win.

They DO NOTHING to inform people of the negative expectation of all manner of casino games as compared with the pleasure and selectivity of the parimutuel game. I suppose their BOTTOM LINE would be hurting if the word got out!

Grab the newly interested, the older fans who need a re-introduction to the basics, go out in the neighborhood and put in clinics to excite people to the lore and pageantry, history and excitement of the game, even set up "classes" in community college night courses (like Cramer did) to let people know that THIS game is UNIQUE and DIFFERENT than the mindless pushing of buttons sitting on your dead butt.

Offer real incentives to come out to the track or at least at home. PUT ON MORE LOCAL TELEVISION COVERAGE other than the Derby each year.

.

Some excellent ideas here. :ThmbUp: :ThmbUp:

[Johnny V]

I am as frustrated as the next guy, probably even more so because from INSIDE of the profession, I can see all manner of POTENTIAL, but the CLOWNS running the show won't even entertain the idea of educating the people who walk through the door everyday to the unique nature of our form of gambling where, with study, you actually have a chance to win.

They DO NOTHING to inform people of the negative expectation of all manner of casino games as compared with the pleasure and selectivity of the parimutuel game. I suppose their BOTTOM LINE would be hurting if the word got out!

Grab the newly interested, the older fans who need a re-introduction to the basics, go out in the neighborhood and put in clinics to excite people to the lore and pageantry, history and excitement of the game, even set up "classes" in community college night courses (like Cramer did) to let people know that THIS game is UNIQUE and DIFFERENT than the mindless pushing of buttons sitting on your dead butt.

Offer real incentives to come out to the track or at least at home. PUT ON MORE LOCAL TELEVISION COVERAGE other than the Derby each year.

We are more fortunate than many other venues with a weekly show put on by a knowledgeable ex-jockey and a good production crew Tommy Wolksi's Sport of Kings which keeps the unique and inside look at behind the scenes to those who have no idea what really goes on. He has done shows about the assistant starters, the stewards, riders, grooms, hot walkers, reviews old races, talks to parimutuel managers etc etc to keep racing ALIVE and does it well as he won a Sovereign Award a few years back. He also covers standardbreds in the Winter and writes a weekly news column....ONE of the only ones.

About 10 years ago, a horse player friend of mine, who was employed in the adult continuing education program at a college, and I decided to offer an introductory handicapping course to stimulate some interest.
After overcoming the initial opposition that the college did not want to look like they were promoting gambling after we pointed out that they offered an adult wine tasting course and that didn't mean they were promoting drinking and the rest of all that nonsense we finally got approval and were set to go.
There was absolutely no interest in signing up and that was the end of that. It is frustrating trying to promote this sport.

[takeout]

On Wednesday, I went to Charlestown Bet you had plenty of elbow room. :D Last time I was there on a Wednesday there were barely enough people in the grandstand for a good card game. They don’t even open up the snack bar upstairs anymore on Wed.’s & Thur.’s.

Dying model is right. They’re doing only about half as much on-track handle now as they were before they got slots. I’ve seen it as low as less than 30K.

[Fort Erie Fanatic]

The problem, is, the inability to attract young people. Me, I'm 19 years old and love horse racing so much. Only one of my friends has been to the races, and he said he had went once. The truth is, the 18-24 group have a lot of disposable income, so it is important to get them. But just like everything else, most people would rather stay inside play video games and listen to their ipod.

In my opinion people don't get what horse racing is. Your not playing against a house like a casino, but rather other people. I love horse racing because it is a competitive game. It's my theory and horse against your theory and horse. I believe I'm right and your wrong so I'm going to bet my money. I think that is the marketing scheme racetracks have to use.

Your not betting against us, but rather the person beside you.

[Relwob Owner]

The problem, is, the inability to attract young people. Me, I'm 19 years old and love horse racing so much. Only one of my friends has been to the races, and he said he had went once. The truth is, the 18-24 group have a lot of disposable income, so it is important to get them. But just like everything else, most people would rather stay inside play video games and listen to their ipod.

In my opinion people don't get what horse racing is. Your not playing against a house like a casino, but rather other people. I love horse racing because it is a competitive game. It's my theory and horse against your theory and horse. I believe I'm right and your wrong so I'm going to bet my money. I think that is the marketing scheme racetracks have to use.

Your not betting against us, but rather the person beside you.



Good points all around, especially about the marketing scheme catering towards "my theory vs. your theory"(funny that the people who market racing thought that coming up with a mediocre saying like "Go Baby Go" would cure everything).... I am amazed that poker has taken off so much while horse racing has just sat around and watched it go. You would think with the glut of crappy reality shows around, they could do one centered around the gambling aspect of racing.....a Pick 6 one would be cool and might attract some attention, as the pots are so big and you could root for the individuals/ groups playing it.


Good luck at the track to you.

[Horseplayersbet.com]

Problem is poker and sports betting is my theory against your theory too, but at much lower house takes. And I strongly believe that the fact that there are winners at both those games, that this attracts many young people more than horse racing does today with no visible winners who are able to beat the takeout year to year and make a living at it.

[Relwob Owner]

Problem is poker and sports betting is my theory against your theory too, but at much lower house takes. And I strongly believe that the fact that there are winners at both those games, that this attracts many young people more than horse racing does today with no visible winners who are able to beat the takeout year to year and make a living at it.


I do understand that takeout is a huge issue but it isnt the only one....think about it this way-how many casinos have bets that are weighted incredibly heavily against the bettor...slots? Craps(the sucker bets)? do you think the "c and e" bets or the "horn high yo" bets dont have a high takeout? They certainly do but get by because enough people are constantly in and out of the casino because it is a fun place to go. Horseracing doesnt have that anymore and has to find a way to recpture it, although with the amount of options now, it may be impossible

[Horseplayersbet.com]

I do understand that takeout is a huge issue but it isnt the only one....think about it this way-how many casinos have bets that are weighted incredibly heavily against the bettor...slots? Craps(the sucker bets)? do you think the "c and e" bets or the "horn high yo" bets dont have a high takeout? They certainly do but get by because enough people are constantly in and out of the casino because it is a fun place to go. Horseracing doesnt have that anymore and has to find a way to recpture it, although with the amount of options now, it may be impossible
Last time I looked, there weren't too many people in their early 20's at slots either.
And again, the games you mention have negative expectations, however, the player lasts longer than in horse racing giving them the illusion the game is beatable.

[cosmo96]

I know there are some real legitimate issues that horseracing has to deal with. I live near Dayton. The Ohio and Kentucky tracks are hurting because they can’t keep up with the racinos in neighboring states. There are many other issues we all familiar with. I won’t go into them.

Sometimes I think the Ohio and Kentucky tracks are crying wolf. In the old days before simulcasts people filled the grandstands because they had to. Now there is a giant sprawl. If all the people at the track were in the grandstand they would be full on weekends, and a good crowd during the week.

I am mostly an ROI guy. I admit I don’t pay too much attention to anything but my bottom line, but every time I go to Turfway it is very crowded. River Downs has a lot of sprawl, but a lot of people. I know a lot of people play River Downs, Turfway, and Beulah at home and in off track betting facilities. The tracks have to get some of this revenue. I prefer to see live racing. But, often I go to Lebanon Raceway a harness track where I bet the thoroughbreds. As the week goes on the simulcast attendance gets better. On weekends it is full. But, they claim they are losing money. The internet is full of racing stuff. I bet racing news and handicapping are in the top third of internet traffic. When the Ohio tracks thought they would get slots, I’m sure they would have come up with the millions it takes to make a racino. They all bitch and complain but, they are there year after year. Does anyone think there is some exaggeration or crying wolf?