NJ Racing- Change on Horizon?

[alhattab]

http://www.state.nj.us/governor/news/reports/Gaming,%20Sports,%20and%20Entertainments.pdf

Report prepared by Gov Christie transition committee. The gaming, sports and entertainment committee included mix of people from these fields including two horsemen, AC interests, former NJSEA leaders.

In short, calls for end of AC subsidies, 50 day meet at Mth, no t-bred at Club Med, acceleration of OTW development or recission of rights to do so (aimed at Greenwood) and change to mandated number of racing days currently required to operate OTWs (I believe 140 minimum through 2012 and 120 minimum through 2016). Word around Mth a few weeks ago was that horsemen proposed 50 some-odd day meet in 2010 that would offer purses of around $750k/day (with AC subsidies)

[lamboguy]

http://www.state.nj.us/governor/news/reports/Gaming,%20Sports,%20and%20Entertainments.pdf

Report prepared by Gov Christie transition committee. The gaming, sports and entertainment committee included mix of people from these fields including two horsemen, AC interests, former NJSEA leaders.

In short, calls for end of AC subsidies, 50 day meet at Mth, no t-bred at Club Med, acceleration of OTW development or recission of rights to do so (aimed at Greenwood) and change to mandated number of racing days currently required to operate OTWs (I believe 140 minimum through 2012 and 120 minimum through 2016). Word around Mth a few weeks ago was that horsemen proposed 50 some-odd day meet in 2010 that would offer purses of around $750k/day (with AC subsidies)not to nice a development for my favorite track.

[phatbastard]

nothing there sounds good to me........

so new jersey is reduced to a ''boutique'' sorta state

50 days for t-breds should make for some nice racing, but can it support all those who derive the earnings from the industry

62 yrs old, and leaving soon for florida, whomever is last out please turnout the lights

[NJ Stinks]

All those years the Meadowland's horseplayers paid for the entire complex and now it's got to be dumped because it ain't carrying the load for Giants Stadium and the rest of the leeches? :mad:

The only thing I'm sure they got right is that Penn/Greenwood obviously has no interest in opening NJ OTB's that may compete with the Philly Park OTB's across the river.

And I wouldn't be against 50 live days at Monmouth with gigantic purses either.

[NY BRED]

how to bring back the charisma of Cub Med?

let's see, how do you spell Racino?

As an easy example, just look at YR now flush with money, higher purses,
bigger attendance than the Big M and Aqu due to 8,000+ VllTS

Couple Tbred racing with a superior commute (from NY /Northern NJ)
due to NJ Transit Rail/Light Rail/Buses going directly to the Meadowlands,
and the Big could regain its luster.



Needless to say this theory will never happen due to Casino politics,
that are also impacted by the current econmy.

[alhattab]

how to bring back the charisma of Cub Med?

let's see, how do you spell Racino?

As an easy example, just look at YR now flush with money, higher purses,
bigger attendance than the Big M and Aqu due to 8,000+ VllTS

Couple Tbred racing with a superior commute (from NY /Northern NJ)
due to NJ Transit Rail/Light Rail/Buses going directly to the Meadowlands,
and the Big could regain its luster.



Needless to say this theory will never happen due to Casino politics,
that are also impacted by the current econmy.

I will probably never understand why NJ wouldn't turn Club Med into a racino for the "convenience gamblers" as I believe the report calls them. The report even goes so far as to say that AC must become more destination oriented. Why, then, wouldn't we seek to keep at least the North Jersey and NYC "day trip" money in the state by turning Club Med into a racino? Even if there was only very marginal support (or even none) to racing it would make sense.

My take:

-dumping t-breds at Club Med is a no-brainer

-I like the idea of 50 days in the summer at Mth

-The OTW point is a no-brainer. We need one in Cherry Hill, up near the Suffern OTB, out in Western NJ and maybe even near the Pru Center

-I am worried about the health of the industry. I think that if there are NJ-bred races plus out-of-state incentives you would at least maintain what little is left of the foal crop. I'd like to see some cooperation on making the industry survive such as year-round training/stabling. You don't really need the racing here- people can ship to Pha, Del, Aqu- but you need to give people a place to keep and train their horses. I liked Drazin's idea of taking a Ft. Monmouth tract and turning into year-round training facility.

-I think there will ultimately be some semblance of casino "support" but not near the levels we have seen over the past 7 years.

Ultimately I think the boutique meet is the way to go. It can work in this region. Mth will provide a nice change for the horses and the people enduring year-long meets elsewhere, and will be a destination for meets shipping north. I also think the purses elsewhere in the region will be under continued pressure because govt's will be looking to divert slots money to more important social issues.

I look at Oaklawn and see how it has upped its game- yes with instant racing but purse levels are in an area Mth could support or even exceed- and think that a 50 day meet here of very high quality could make for a successful and vibrant Mth meet.

[The Hawk]

Al Leiter and an actor from the Sopranos are playing a role in deciding the future of horse racing in New Jersey?

Sounds about right.

[lamboguy]

I will probably never understand why NJ wouldn't turn Club Med into a racino for the "convenience gamblers" as I believe the report calls them. The report even goes so far as to say that AC must become more destination oriented. Why, then, wouldn't we seek to keep at least the North Jersey and NYC "day trip" money in the state by turning Club Med into a racino? Even if there was only very marginal support (or even none) to racing it would make sense.

My take:

-dumping t-breds at Club Med is a no-brainer

-I like the idea of 50 days in the summer at Mth

-The OTW point is a no-brainer. We need one in Cherry Hill, up near the Suffern OTB, out in Western NJ and maybe even near the Pru Center

-I am worried about the health of the industry. I think that if there are NJ-bred races plus out-of-state incentives you would at least maintain what little is left of the foal crop. I'd like to see some cooperation on making the industry survive such as year-round training/stabling. You don't really need the racing here- people can ship to Pha, Del, Aqu- but you need to give people a place to keep and train their horses. I liked Drazin's idea of taking a Ft. Monmouth tract and turning into year-round training facility.

-I think there will ultimately be some semblance of casino "support" but not near the levels we have seen over the past 7 years.

Ultimately I think the boutique meet is the way to go. It can work in this region. Mth will provide a nice change for the horses and the people enduring year-long meets elsewhere, and will be a destination for meets shipping north. I also think the purses elsewhere in the region will be under continued pressure because govt's will be looking to divert slots money to more important social issues.

I look at Oaklawn and see how it has upped its game- yes with instant racing but purse levels are in an area Mth could support or even exceed- and think that a 50 day meet here of very high quality could make for a successful and vibrant Mth meet.there are still people that love monmouth the way it is. it has a bunch of very loyal fans.

i thinkthat by cuttting back the racing days and getting rid of the lower rung races ruins the game in the long run. it will wind up eliminating people in the game that have a tough time as it is to afford thecost of racing horses. bottom level racing is just as important as championship racing for the health of the sport. the game has gone downhill with the rise in higher end purses in the last 20 years.

i have been watching the decline in lower rung purses @mountaineer. this has created less interest in the place, and all you get is very boring non-competetive racing along with the purse cuts.

[Rutgers]

I agree that a reduction of racing days is needed in NJ. I also agree on ending the T-breds at the Meadowlands. But that will not solve the problems in New Jersey racing.

New Jersey racing is struggling because the NJSEA does a poor job of running the tracks. And until the State realizes that, New Jersey racing will continue to decline.

[alhattab]

there are still people that love monmouth the way it is. it has a bunch of very loyal fans.

i thinkthat by cuttting back the racing days and getting rid of the lower rung races ruins the game in the long run. it will wind up eliminating people in the game that have a tough time as it is to afford thecost of racing horses. bottom level racing is just as important as championship racing for the health of the sport. the game has gone downhill with the rise in higher end purses in the last 20 years.

i have been watching the decline in lower rung purses @mountaineer. this has created less interest in the place, and all you get is very boring non-competetive racing along with the purse cuts.

I agree, and I don't think you need to cut out the lower rung. Look back at Mth's halcyon days and they ran pretty cheap races then. I'm thinking more the top end races and consistency in product quality will benefit from the shorter meet. Quality in the cheaper races to me means larger fields and some form to work with, while consistency to me means you know within some bounds of reason the product you will see day in and day out. I believe this latter point is the reason why racing is suffering- the consistency at the sport's top venues exists only in a select few places.

[onefast99]

I agree, and I don't think you need to cut out the lower rung. Look back at Mth's halcyon days and they ran pretty cheap races then. I'm thinking more the top end races and consistency in product quality will benefit from the shorter meet. Quality in the cheaper races to me means larger fields and some form to work with, while consistency to me means you know within some bounds of reason the product you will see day in and day out. I believe this latter point is the reason why racing is suffering- the consistency at the sport's top venues exists only in a select few places.
The belief that a 50 day meet is something that the horseman will embrace is untrue. Many strongly believe that the meet should be reduced to Thurs thru Sunday racing from the second week in May until the first week of November(Fri thru Sun only after Labor day). The present purse structure must be changed and that is simply due to the competition from Philly Park and other neighboring tracks that have the ability to increase their purse monies by the means of slot machine revenues. The NJSEA must get out of the horse business. Their antiquated ideas and personnel did a great job when there was minimum competition. New marketing approaches are needed, specifically designed for the bettor who needs to be rewarded for betting at MP. On top of that the overall marketing approcah to MP needs to be over-hauled and they need to advertise by means of any median they can find. MP will survive and hopefully this Governor will play a significant part.

[alhattab]

The belief that a 50 day meet is something that the horseman will embrace is untrue. Many strongly believe that the meet should be reduced to Thurs thru Sunday racing from the second week in May until the first week of November(Fri thru Sun only after Labor day). The present purse structure must be changed and that is simply due to the competition from Philly Park and other neighboring tracks that have the ability to increase their purse monies by the means of slot machine revenues. The NJSEA must get out of the horse business. Their antiquated ideas and personnel did a great job when there was minimum competition. New marketing approaches are needed, specifically designed for the bettor who needs to be rewarded for betting at MP. On top of that the overall marketing approcah to MP needs to be over-hauled and they need to advertise by means of any median they can find. MP will survive and hopefully this Governor will play a significant part.

The marketing os so awful that people who live 2 miles from the track often say "oh is Monmouth still open?" As I head to the track in Sept. They don't even do the bare minimum like hang banners out on Route 36, on Route 35, etc. It is a real community track and asset and needs to be very simply marketed that way, just for starters.

Has there ever been consideration to a set up that included a Summer meet augmented by mini-meets at other times during the year? I like the Thu-Sun set up in summer (I've heard twilight cards for at least Fri this year and would think they should do same for Thu). Say they ran through Sept which would include Hunt Meeting. Then selected weekends even into the winter. Run say BC weekend, Thanksgiving, maybe then Pres Day, a weekend in March and April. In the winter us Clubhouse only- it's open anyway. This would give J-breds year-round opptys and they could combine the racing with promotions around "homecoming (t'giving)", "winter carnival (Pres weekend)".

[onefast99]

The marketing os so awful that people who live 2 miles from the track often say "oh is Monmouth still open?" As I head to the track in Sept. They don't even do the bare minimum like hang banners out on Route 36, on Route 35, etc. It is a real community track and asset and needs to be very simply marketed that way, just for starters.

Has there ever been consideration to a set up that included a Summer meet augmented by mini-meets at other times during the year? I like the Thu-Sun set up in summer (I've heard twilight cards for at least Fri this year and would think they should do same for Thu). Say they ran through Sept which would include Hunt Meeting. Then selected weekends even into the winter. Run say BC weekend, Thanksgiving, maybe then Pres Day, a weekend in March and April. In the winter us Clubhouse only- it's open anyway. This would give J-breds year-round opptys and they could combine the racing with promotions around "homecoming (t'giving)", "winter carnival (Pres weekend)".
I would have to say that the j-breds may indeed be the ones left out if a boutique style meet happens. As mentioned before the lower level claimer may be out and the big ticket races will be in. The NJSEA has a lot to do, actually too much to do and that is why it is imperative that a private group take over t-bred racing at MP. Apparently the NJSEA just thinks that everyone knows there is racing at MP from May thru September. You bring up a very interesting point, where is a banner or billboard to say MP is open? No where. Imagine if you owned a business that relied on walk in traffic to sustain itself and no one knew what days you were open or better yet if you were even open. I am sure that business wouldn't last long unless you had subsidies. In this case 2010 is the last year for the casino subsidies and hopefully the last year the NJSEA has anything to do with MP.

[lamboguy]

I would have to say that the j-breds may indeed be the ones left out if a boutique style meet happens. As mentioned before the lower level claimer may be out and the big ticket races will be in. The NJSEA has a lot to do, actually too much to do and that is why it is imperative that a private group take over t-bred racing at MP. Apparently the NJSEA just thinks that everyone knows there is racing at MP from May thru September. You bring up a very interesting point, where is a banner or billboard to say MP is open? No where. Imagine if you owned a business that relied on walk in traffic to sustain itself and no one knew what days you were open or better yet if you were even open. I am sure that business wouldn't last long unless you had subsidies. In this case 2010 is the last year for the casino subsidies and hopefully the last year the NJSEA has anything to do with MP.
getting rid of jersey breds and lower level races is only going to kill the whole game in new jersey. not that having 10k fans on a regular sat afternoon is that much, but its more than they get at belmont park on a saturday. monmouth is one place where they have loyal fans. not only loyal but very knowledgeable about horseracing, its like it used to be in new england years ago. new england is dead now, jersey is still live.

[NJ Stinks]

Monmouth was granted 97 racing dates in 2009. That's way too long. Start on Memorial Day weekend and wrap it up on Labor Day. And drop Wednesdays. That's about 15 weeks x 4 days per week or 60 days of live racing. Run 10 races on Thursday and Friday and 11 on Saturday and Sunday. That's 42 races a week with a 4 day schedule vs. the current 50 or so run on the current 5 day schedule.

If the track is open on a holiday, drop Thursday that week. Jersey-breds will still get their chances to cash and so will low level claimers. And when they do the purses will be bigger.

The way it is now I don't even bother anymore with a weekday card there. By bother I mean attend. Once in a while I'll go down for social reasons during the week but most weekday cards are not worth the effort to drive there. The cards are that bad.

Keep it fresh and pump up the purses with the 4 day week. Monmouth will still benefit greatly by running the same days as Saratoga for 5 weeks. Plus gamblers will show up on Monday and Wednesday in decent numbers for the Saratoga simulcasts.

If I ran the show, dropping at least one-third of the racing dates and Wednesdays is my first step to a better tomorrow. It's not like the horsemen can't go to Philly Park, Penn National, NY, Delaware, Maryland, or West Virginia to run when Monmouth isn't open.

[alhattab]

Monmouth was granted 97 racing dates in 2009. That's way too long. Start on Memorial Day weekend and wrap it up on Labor Day. And drop Wednesdays. That's about 15 weeks x 4 days per week or 60 days of live racing. Run 10 races on Thursday and Friday and 11 on Saturday and Sunday. That's 42 races a week with a 4 day schedule vs. the current 50 or so run on the current 5 day schedule.

If the track is open on a holiday, drop Thursday that week. Jersey-breds will still get their chances to cash and so will low level claimers. And when they do the purses will be bigger.

The way it is now I don't even bother anymore with a weekday card there. By bother I mean attend. Once in a while I'll go down for social reasons during the week but most weekday cards are not worth the effort to drive there. The cards are that bad.

Keep it fresh and pump up the purses with the 4 day week. Monmouth will still benefit greatly by running the same days as Saratoga for 5 weeks. Plus gamblers will show up on Monday and Wednesday in decent numbers for the Saratoga simulcasts.

If I ran the show, dropping at least one-third of the racing dates and Wednesdays is my first step to a better tomorrow. It's not like the horsemen can't go to Philly Park, Penn National, NY, Delaware, Maryland, or West Virginia to run when Monmouth isn't open.

Harrumph!

[onefast99]

Monmouth was granted 97 racing dates in 2009. That's way too long. Start on Memorial Day weekend and wrap it up on Labor Day. And drop Wednesdays. That's about 15 weeks x 4 days per week or 60 days of live racing. Run 10 races on Thursday and Friday and 11 on Saturday and Sunday. That's 42 races a week with a 4 day schedule vs. the current 50 or so run on the current 5 day schedule.

If the track is open on a holiday, drop Thursday that week. Jersey-breds will still get their chances to cash and so will low level claimers. And when they do the purses will be bigger.

The way it is now I don't even bother anymore with a weekday card there. By bother I mean attend. Once in a while I'll go down for social reasons during the week but most weekday cards are not worth the effort to drive there. The cards are that bad.

Keep it fresh and pump up the purses with the 4 day week. Monmouth will still benefit greatly by running the same days as Saratoga for 5 weeks. Plus gamblers will show up on Monday and Wednesday in decent numbers for the Saratoga simulcasts.

If I ran the show, dropping at least one-third of the racing dates and Wednesdays is my first step to a better tomorrow. It's not like the horsemen can't go to Philly Park, Penn National, NY, Delaware, Maryland, or West Virginia to run when Monmouth isn't open.
If you are referring to the NY horseman going to other tracks to run NJ breds, it doesn't happen. Many of the top trainers head to Palm Meadows and Gulfstream sans NJ breds. Some to PP and some to Aqueduct. Your idea is a good one but nothing will work unless the state gives out a 22m subsidy to cover the losses and as it looks the state has nothing to offer other than the 9m simulcast monies. Take the 9m and figure a racing schedule with that, and a purse structure, good luck!

[alhattab]

If you are referring to the NY horseman going to other tracks to run NJ breds, it doesn't happen. Many of the top trainers head to Palm Meadows and Gulfstream sans NJ breds. Some to PP and some to Aqueduct. Your idea is a good one but nothing will work unless the state gives out a 22m subsidy to cover the losses and as it looks the state has nothing to offer other than the 9m simulcast monies. Take the 9m and figure a racing schedule with that, and a purse structure, good luck!

I'm leery of the accounting behind the numbers quoted in the report. Who the hell knows what is in them? I don't know how they treated the improvements made from the BC (are they being depreciated in the most recent years?). Plus there's probably cost allocations from the NJSEA in there.

[Stevie Belmont]

I for one don't like it...

The Meadowlands is one of the more profitable meets for me — Shippers love coming there and any track bias is pretty easy to detect. It's simply a good track for me to play, as well as others.

Shorter Monmouth meet might mean better racing, but in the long run the little guys and the Jersey bred program will suffer here.

Bottom line is the J Bred program is already suffering and has been for awhile now — this will hurt it even more.

[castaway01]

I for one don't like it...

The Meadowlands is one of the more profitable meets for me — Shippers love coming there and any track bias is pretty easy to detect. It's simply a good track for me to play, as well as others.

Shorter Monmouth meet might mean better racing, but in the long run the little guys and the Jersey bred program will suffer here.

Bottom line is the J Bred program is already suffering and has been for awhile now — this will hurt it even more.

That's true. A shorter Monmouth meet might not even help field sizes that much if fewer horses end up being bred. It's hard to justify breeding horses in a state that could potentially only have 50 days of live racing a year.

[Grits]

More good news for New Jersey racing.

DRF's Matty Hegarty writes:http://www.drf.com/news/article/110351.html

"The report says the state should consider the "commercial redevelopment" of the Meadowlands, which also hosts a high-profile harness meet that includes the Hambletonian, one of harness racing's most famous races. Other "potential uses" for the site, according to the report, would be the construction of an auto-racing track."

[onefast99]

I'm leery of the accounting behind the numbers quoted in the report. Who the hell knows what is in them? I don't know how they treated the improvements made from the BC (are they being depreciated in the most recent years?). Plus there's probably cost allocations from the NJSEA in there.
When we went to the track for the pre-breeders cup racing on Wednesday October 24th 2007 no one was able to show us the "new improvements" made to the track other than the tele-theatre on the first floor and the cafeteria on the grandstand side. There was talk of a new electrical system that was installed and "modernization" of the tv's in the owners boxes. The next time you go there look at some of the wrought iron railings, they are so rusted out any weight on them and they will let loose. The removal of the jocks swimming pool and introduction of paddock park couldn't have cost more than a hundred thousand. We had a real nice mobile big screen tv-tote board(was in the paddock) which has mysteriously disappeared. Anyone know where all that 26m went to?

[alhattab]

When we went to the track for the pre-breeders cup racing on Wednesday October 24th 2007 no one was able to show us the "new improvements" made to the track other than the tele-theatre on the first floor and the cafeteria on the grandstand side. There was talk of a new electrical system that was installed and "modernization" of the tv's in the owners boxes. The next time you go there look at some of the wrought iron railings, they are so rusted out any weight on them and they will let loose. The removal of the jocks swimming pool and introduction of paddock park couldn't have cost more than a hundred thousand. We had a real nice mobile big screen tv-tote board(was in the paddock) which has mysteriously disappeared. Anyone know where all that 26m went to?

It really is a disgrace. I had letter published in the Asbury Park Press on this exact topic. The grass course was supposedly $7 million if I recall. New escalators too but how much do they cost? Teletheater had to cost decent chunk. But all that money and still not a big screen for at least the picnic area and one for the Lady's Secret/Paddock area? The regular man on the street in the Grandstand or picnic area had to be asking the same question as you. At least the Christie report recognized the need for capital improvements.

Word on the street was that the old big screens from Giants Stadium were going to make their way to Monmouth Park. God knows they need something- anything- out for the picnic area denizens.

[onefast99]

It really is a disgrace. I had letter published in the Asbury Park Press on this exact topic. The grass course was supposedly $7 million if I recall. New escalators too but how much do they cost? Teletheater had to cost decent chunk. But all that money and still not a big screen for at least the picnic area and one for the Lady's Secret/Paddock area? The regular man on the street in the Grandstand or picnic area had to be asking the same question as you. At least the Christie report recognized the need for capital improvements.

Word on the street was that the old big screens from Giants Stadium were going to make their way to Monmouth Park. God knows they need something- anything- out for the picnic area denizens.
I went back and looked at the "improvements" that were made and I tried to add those up, here is what I came up with. A new Siemens IT system that replaced the antiquated Centrex system(2m), a new build out on both the upper clubhouse level and fully functional simulcast theatre on the lower level(3m), a new set of escalators(200k), a full rebuild of existing grandstand cafeteria(2m) as well as a new paddock park featuring some of the top silks and horses from MP's rich racing history(100k). Refurbishing of barns, and general ground clearage for onsite parking areas(1m). A new turf course designed by the Rutgers agricultural department(7m). A new facade with the MP logo right in front of the valet parking section(2m) Add electrical work and some miscellaneous improvements and I get only 17.3m. The mobile video screen was probably about 1m so we are now at 18.3m. Where is the balance? The 7.7m worth of improvements that were supposedly made to this structure but nothing to show for it. You wonder why the NJSEA shouldn't be involved in the horse racing industry!

[The Hawk]

Here's the latest on this saga:

http://www.northjersey.com/news/012610_Sarlo_proposes_casino_for_Meadowlands.html

[onefast99]

Here's the latest on this saga:

http://www.northjersey.com/news/012610_Sarlo_proposes_casino_for_Meadowlands.html
What about Newark? They now have the Prudential Center which has lured the Devils away from the Izod Center and most likely the Nets for at least two years beginning next season. Combine that with Seton Hall playing home games there and that should answer Senate President Sweeneys concerns. Also Sweeney has sided with the casinos on everything from soup to nuts. The Meadowlands would be a world class casino and add to the staets revenue stream, this is a no brainer.

[alhattab]

We had good reason to be skeptical of the numbers. At least the APP is looking out for us. In short, loss of $22 million excludes $9 million or so from OTW and includes payments paid to municipalities in lieu of taxes.

http://www.app.com/article/20100203/NEWS03/2030349/Sports-entertainment-panel-lacks-horse-race-expertise

This is like saying the Hong Kong Jockey Club loses money- even though it funds something like 12% of the territory's budget.

The deck is clearly being stacked.

The irony with all this is that AC is in same predicament racing has been in for the very same reasons. Racing has never responded to its losing its monopoly over gaming and sporting in general. Similarly, AC relied on its monopoly and never turned the city into Vegas on the Atlantic. Now there is no reason to go there. The filth isn't even any good (ever try to find a good strip joint there?). And now AC wants a "bailout" of its own by restricting competition for gaming in-state, while adding competition to AC through venues like Harrah's Chester. When are people going to wake up to this? I don't care if racing doesn't get a dime of it. We are losing to NY and PA because of rockheadedness and it has to stop.

[timp]

Just love it Jersey horseman let the casinos in to save them . Now jersey is looking at extinction.How can it be possible for the horseman to be this stupid should of been part of deal to start with cerain amount of gaming for all NJ tracks.Absolutely insane casinos all over PA NJ but not at the trascks this is destroying the NJ horseman. I could go on for pages . Maybe later

[onefast99]

Just love it Jersey horseman let the casinos in to save them . Now jersey is looking at extinction.How can it be possible for the horseman to be this stupid should of been part of deal to start with cerain amount of gaming for all NJ tracks.Absolutely insane casinos all over PA NJ but not at the trascks this is destroying the NJ horseman. I could go on for pages . Maybe later
There is not much the horseman can do, the past Governors didn't want to jeopardize the casino owners by putting VLT's in at the Meadowlands and Monmouth park. Now the new Governor has decided to take the racing as we know it in NJ and make a huge change to a boutique meet offering 1m a day in purses beginning May 22nd 2010 and running until September 6th 2010 and then racing will continue at Monmouth Park from September 10th until November 20th with Friday and Saturday as the only race days. The purse monies will be 250k during these dates. The small owner is done, they will now be forced to go to Philly Park, the Pletchers, Levines and other large outfits will take down the big purse monies as well as the NJ bred owners. Next year will be a different story as there will be no more casino supplements and racing in NJ will become a memory.

[The Hawk]

Now the new Governor has decided to take the racing as we know it in NJ and make a huge change to a boutique meet offering 1m a day in purses beginning May 22nd 2010 and running until September 6th 2010 and then racing will continue at Monmouth Park from September 10th until November 20th with Friday and Saturday as the only race days. The purse monies will be 250k during these dates.

Is this the latest? Was it printed someplace?

[The Hawk]

Onefast, or Alhattab, maybe you know the answer to this:

Why wouldn't the state allow VLT's at the Meadowlands with the provision that the casinos be able to run them, and take a big cut? That would enable both industries to sustain jobs, it would keep the money that goes out of North Jersey to Philly/CT/Yonkers to stay in state, and it would be a revenue stream for the casinos. Is there a reason this can't work?

[Cubbymac26]

racetracks have to go for the knockout blow theres only 3 casinos in ac(borgata harrahs and caesars) if the m ever got slots tables or poker they could get the boards up for ac.....

[alhattab]

Onefast, or Alhattab, maybe you know the answer to this:

Why wouldn't the state allow VLT's at the Meadowlands with the provision that the casinos be able to run them, and take a big cut? That would enable both industries to sustain jobs, it would keep the money that goes out of North Jersey to Philly/CT/Yonkers to stay in state, and it would be a revenue stream for the casinos. Is there a reason this can't work?

I've written before that the casinos' stance is a mystery to me. They're either bargaining or they really are concerned about the sunk cost in AC. There are a ton of details I don't know so I don't claim to be an authority, but your suggestion is one I've always thought would work for everyone. I still think there would be hope for AC as a "destination" if they could ever clean the place up. Plus I read somewhere, forget where as there's been a lot of press on the NJ situation lately, that only about 25% of the AC dollar comes from North Jersey.

As far as Onefast's claim, he is "in the biz" so would know better than me, but I didn't know the boutique concept had been floated by the GOV. I had heard the horsemen proposed this sort of meet.

[The Hawk]

I've written before that the casinos' stance is a mystery to me. They're either bargaining or they really are concerned about the sunk cost in AC. There are a ton of details I don't know so I don't claim to be an authority, but your suggestion is one I've always thought would work for everyone. I still think there would be hope for AC as a "destination" if they could ever clean the place up. Plus I read somewhere, forget where as there's been a lot of press on the NJ situation lately, that only about 25% of the AC dollar comes from North Jersey.

As far as Onefast's claim, he is "in the biz" so would know better than me, but I didn't know the boutique concept had been floated by the GOV. I had heard the horsemen proposed this sort of meet.

What I heard was the gov's horse racing "committee" (not a horseplayer/horseman on it) suggested the boutique meet, and everyone was surprised when the horsemen didn't balk at it.

[onefast99]

What I heard was the gov's horse racing "committee" (not a horseplayer/horseman on it) suggested the boutique meet, and everyone was surprised when the horsemen didn't balk at it.
The information coming out is as follows, there will be a 12 race card three days per week beginning on May 22nd 2010. The purse monies will be 1m per day for this year until the meet ends on September 6th which is labor day. The new Monmouth meet(formerly the Meadowlands meet) will begin on Friday September 10th and run thru Saturday November 20th 2010. This will consist of Friday and Saturday racing only, no Sunday racing due to the football games, which makes no sense as MP is 1 hour from the Meadowlands. Some of the purses being kicked around are NJ breds allowance nw1x for 80k and NJ breds 7.5k claimers with a purse of 35k. I am sure there will be a press release by the weekend to confirm some of this.

[The Hawk]

The new Monmouth meet(formerly the Meadowlands meet) will begin on Friday September 10th and run thru Saturday November 20th 2010. This will consist of Friday and Saturday racing only, no Sunday racing due to the football games, which makes no sense as MP is 1 hour from the Meadowlands. Some of the purses being kicked around are NJ breds allowance nw1x for 80k and NJ breds 7.5k claimers with a purse of 35k.

This is the part that is new to me. So they're going to go from running AN1X races for $80K to running them for $20K or so a few weeks later? While I think this has some merit in general, since the racing quality declines so much at the end of the season, and the better maidens and AN1X deserve more money, I don't know how they're going to fill the fall cards, much less fill them with decent horses.

The drop-off could ruin any positive effects from the summer season, which I think will be excellent. Maybe they should call it "Meadowlands at Monmouth" or something, to differentiate the two. :)

[Rutgers]

This will consist of Friday and Saturday racing only, no Sunday racing due to the football games, which makes no sense as MP is 1 hour from the Meadowlands.

Maybe concern about losing the Meadowlands as a simlucast site for the MP races.

[onefast99]

Maybe concern about losing the Meadowlands as a simlucast site for the MP races.
When both the Giants and Jets are away there is Sunday simulcasting. I don't know how many Sundays that were eligible but there wasn't many. This also gives the new racing board the ability to push for a northern NJ OTW.

[onefast99]

There will be a meeting with the horseman tomorrow, via a telephone conference call.

[Bluto Blutarsky]

The information coming out is as follows, there will be a 12 race card three days per week beginning on May 22nd 2010. The purse monies will be 1m per day for this year until the meet ends on September 6th which is labor day. The new Monmouth meet(formerly the Meadowlands meet) will begin on Friday September 10th and run thru Saturday November 20th 2010. This will consist of Friday and Saturday racing only, no Sunday racing due to the football games, which makes no sense as MP is 1 hour from the Meadowlands. Some of the purses being kicked around are NJ breds allowance nw1x for 80k and NJ breds 7.5k claimers with a purse of 35k. I am sure there will be a press release by the weekend to confirm some of this.

onefast

Thanks for posting. My sources say you are correct.
The NJ THA Board of Directors will have a tele-conference at noon to discuss the details.

[onefast99]

onefast

Thanks for posting. My sources say you are correct.
The NJ THA Board of Directors will have a tele-conference at noon to discuss the details.
Many believe Bob Kulina had this deal done in December but Forbes didn't want to give the horseman anytime to think about it.

[Bluto Blutarsky]

Now Burnt Out Bob gets to be paid 200K for 3 days of work instead of 5.
It is good to be Bob.

[Brogan]

If this is true, I'm pondering the effect on racing.

1) Will competition get tougher because of fewer races per week and higher purses?

2) Will horsemen that normally make MTH their summer home go elsewhere where there are more race opportunities and actually reduce the level of competition at MTH?

3) Will there be a ton of ship ins trying to snare the bigger pots?

4) With a 3 day race week, will the track still be open 7 days for training?

5) Will the jockey colony significantly change?

Inquiring minds want to know!

p.s. I don't know of a single T-bred horseman that would be sorry to eliminate the Meadowlands as a racing location (as long the dates were run at Monmouth).

[GaryG]

2) Will horsemen that normally make MTH their summer home go elsewhere where there are more race opportunities and actually reduce the level of competition at MTH?With those inflated purses I can't see any J-bred stables leaving.

[onefast99]

If this is true, I'm pondering the effect on racing.

1) Will competition get tougher because of fewer races per week and higher purses?

2) Will horsemen that normally make MTH their summer home go elsewhere where there are more race opportunities and actually reduce the level of competition at MTH?

3) Will there be a ton of ship ins trying to snare the bigger pots?

4) With a 3 day race week, will the track still be open 7 days for training?

5) Will the jockey colony significantly change?

Inquiring minds want to know!

p.s. I don't know of a single T-bred horseman that would be sorry to eliminate the Meadowlands as a racing location (as long the dates were run at Monmouth).
Here are some answers to your inquiries.
1)Those who stable in NY will come to MP for the increased purses
thus making this a true boutique meet only from 5-22 thru 9-6.
2)The smaller MP outfits will head to Philly and Delaware.
3)Ship-ins will go anywhere that the purse monies are better then where they are at now. Mott, Pletcher, Levine and many other big operations already have stalls at MP so the trainers who wish to take advantage of the new million a day purse structure will stable better quality horses at MP.
4) The track will not adjust the training schedule due to a shorter racing week.
5)That is a given, the higher the purse structure the better the jockey colony. Until Saratoga opens in July you may see jocks like Dominguez, Castellano, Prado and Cohen make their weekend home MP.

You assume correctly about the Meadowlands. The track consists of a rock hard base that is excellent for the harness horses and when the Meadowlands Thoroughbred meet begins they bring in tons of top soil to put over this hard surface, as the rains begin to wash away the top soil the track becomes even harder and horses are more susceptible to injury.

[Canarsie]

When both the Giants and Jets are away there is Sunday simulcasting. I don't know how many Sundays that were eligible but there wasn't many. This also gives the new racing board the ability to push for a northern NJ OTW.

There is one being built and has been planned for some time.

http://www.nj.com/sports/jjournal/index.ssf?/base/sports-4/1247034324125780.xml&coll=3

[onefast99]

There is one being built and has been planned for some time.

http://www.nj.com/sports/jjournal/index.ssf?/base/sports-4/1247034324125780.xml&coll=3
I hope they ok it as Greenbrook knocked it down by passing around a petition and comparing the OTW to the NYC OTB's.

[Brogan]

Here are some answers to your inquiries.
1)Those who stable in NY will come to MP for the increased purses
thus making this a true boutique meet only from 5-22 thru 9-6.
2)The smaller MP outfits will head to Philly and Delaware.
3)Ship-ins will go anywhere that the purse monies are better then where they are at now. Mott, Pletcher, Levine and many other big operations already have stalls at MP so the trainers who wish to take advantage of the new million a day purse structure will stable better quality horses at MP.
4) The track will not adjust the training schedule due to a shorter racing week.
5)That is a given, the higher the purse structure the better the jockey colony. Until Saratoga opens in July you may see jocks like Dominguez, Castellano, Prado and Cohen make their weekend home MP.

You assume correctly about the Meadowlands. The track consists of a rock hard base that is excellent for the harness horses and when the Meadowlands Thoroughbred meet begins they bring in tons of top soil to put over this hard surface, as the rains begin to wash away the top soil the track becomes even harder and horses are more susceptible to injury.

Those are the answers? Thanks for the answers because if you didn't make that statement I may have foolishly regarded your response merely as your opinion.

Regarding the Meadowlands, I wasn't making an assumption, I was stating a fact. While the track condition is certainly a major factor, so is the fact that's its an all shipper meet, and the layout of the stabling area is geared towards harness. The barns are a poor fit for a thoroughbred operation at best and downright dangerous at worst.

[alhattab]

The information coming out is as follows, there will be a 12 race card three days per week beginning on May 22nd 2010. The purse monies will be 1m per day for this year until the meet ends on September 6th which is labor day. The new Monmouth meet(formerly the Meadowlands meet) will begin on Friday September 10th and run thru Saturday November 20th 2010. This will consist of Friday and Saturday racing only, no Sunday racing due to the football games, which makes no sense as MP is 1 hour from the Meadowlands. Some of the purses being kicked around are NJ breds allowance nw1x for 80k and NJ breds 7.5k claimers with a purse of 35k. I am sure there will be a press release by the weekend to confirm some of this.

http://www.nj.com/sports/njsports/index.ssf/2010/02/monmouth_park.html

Pretty much same facts in the article as Onefast posted above

[onefast99]

Those are the answers? Thanks for the answers because if you didn't make that statement I may have foolishly regarded your response merely as your opinion.

Regarding the Meadowlands, I wasn't making an assumption, I was stating a fact. While the track condition is certainly a major factor, so is the fact that's its an all shipper meet, and the layout of the stabling area is geared towards harness. The barns are a poor fit for a thoroughbred operation at best and downright dangerous at worst.
You cannot stable at the Meadowlands those barns are for the harness horses only, when you ship in you go to the detention barn. More information will be released today on the future of MP.

[onefast99]

Todays conference call with the horseman has been cancelled due to the weather.

[Brogan]

You cannot stable at the Meadowlands those barns are for the harness horses only, when you ship in you go to the detention barn. More information will be released today on the future of MP.


I said it is an all shipper meet. You do not stable at the detention barn when you ship in. You are assigned a stall in one of the barns off the far turn. These barns were not built with thoroughbred race horses in mind. While the barns themselves are quite large, they are subdivided in sections ("A", "B", "C" and so on). Each of these sections are roughly square and have stalls facing each other rather than the optimal T-bred configuration where stalls all face outwards.

Since everyone has shipped in to race, each section can have quite a bit of activity. Normally when horses are being walked everyone stays to the inside (the stall side). At the Meadowlands you are forced to walk horses inbetween people...not a comfortable situation at all.

The detention barn is part of the "back" paddock used during the harness meet. It is located near the quarter pole.

[castaway01]

If I was a mid-range horseman winning 10 percent and grinding out a living, I wouldn't like these changes because I would assume big-money shippers would be coming in and taking my living from me. I sympathize with those men and women.

However, as a racing fan, I think the proposed changes are great. If racing is dying in NJ, as it seems to be here and elsewhere, at least this is a strong move to try to save it. It's a bold move, and that is what racing needs. Sure, sometimes they fail, but it's an attempt anyway.

[toussaud]

If I was a mid-range horseman winning 10 percent and grinding out a living, I wouldn't like these changes because I would assume big-money shippers would be coming in and taking my living from me. I sympathize with those men and women.

However, as a racing fan, I think the proposed changes are great. If racing is dying in NJ, as it seems to be here and elsewhere, at least this is a strong move to try to save it. It's a bold move, and that is what racing needs. Sure, sometimes they fail, but it's an attempt anyway.
this is EXACTLY how I feel on both counts.


there are certain places where grinders just can't make it. Monmouth was Taylor made to run 3 months a year on the summer by the beach.

if you are trying to grind out a living you need to go another circuit.

[onefast99]

I said it is an all shipper meet. You do not stable at the detention barn when you ship in. You are assigned a stall in one of the barns off the far turn. These barns were not built with thoroughbred race horses in mind. While the barns themselves are quite large, they are subdivided in sections ("A", "B", "C" and so on). Each of these sections are roughly square and have stalls facing each other rather than the optimal T-bred configuration where stalls all face outwards.

Since everyone has shipped in to race, each section can have quite a bit of activity. Normally when horses are being walked everyone stays to the inside (the stall side). At the Meadowlands you are forced to walk horses inbetween people...not a comfortable situation at all.

The detention barn is part of the "back" paddock used during the harness meet. It is located near the quarter pole.
I'm not arguing with you we ship 20 a season to that dreadful place, I will not miss it.

[onefast99]

If I was a mid-range horseman winning 10 percent and grinding out a living, I wouldn't like these changes because I would assume big-money shippers would be coming in and taking my living from me. I sympathize with those men and women.

However, as a racing fan, I think the proposed changes are great. If racing is dying in NJ, as it seems to be here and elsewhere, at least this is a strong move to try to save it. It's a bold move, and that is what racing needs. Sure, sometimes they fail, but it's an attempt anyway.
The present appointees on the NJTHA are selling out the horseman! Why? because once this mega dollar meet is done the Meadowlands at Monmouth park meet will feature about 250k a day(2 days) in purses and will need the mid sized and smaller barns to fill the races. If you think for one second a horseman who was kicked to the side during the million a day meet will participate in those races you are sadly mistaken. I am sure Bob Kulina had a big say in this and once the official press release comes out there will be a lot of angry horseman.

[LottaKash]

Those are the answers? Thanks for the answers because if you didn't make that statement I may have foolishly regarded your response merely as your opinion.

Regarding the Meadowlands, I wasn't making an assumption, I was stating a fact. While the track condition is certainly a major factor, so is the fact that's its an all shipper meet, and the layout of the stabling area is geared towards harness. The barns are a poor fit for a thoroughbred operation at best and downright dangerous at worst.

Brogan I am not disputing what you had said about the stabling area of the Meadowlands, but I had a thought....What would be so different about a stall for horses of either breed ?...A horse is a horse as I see it ....In fact there should be even more room for a T-bred horse in the stabling area as the Tack for harness-horses, including sulkies, and harness requires more room than what a T-bed would require, such as "a" saddle....Perhaps the surface in the walking areas might be different or something, I just can't envision what would make it unsafe or inappropriate for a T-bred vs. a S-bred...Please enlighten me a bit...

[toussaud]

The present appointees on the NJTHA are selling out the horseman! Why? because once this mega dollar meet is done the Meadowlands at Monmouth park meet will feature about 250k a day(2 days) in purses and will need the mid sized and smaller barns to fill the races. If you think for one second a horseman who was kicked to the side during the million a day meet will participate in those races you are sadly mistaken. I am sure Bob Kulina had a big say in this and once the official press release comes out there will be a lot of angry horseman.
racing at meadowlands is a no go. they are doing away with it.

NJ racing is going to be alot like arkansas racing.. about a 3 month event.


the problem is that what is a successful meet for horseman is not what is successful to everyone else.

the track can make money the gambler can make money, the attendee can be up, and if the horseman doesn't have any where to run his horses he could care less.

[Stevie Belmont]

Sad is the only word I can think. No more t-breds at my home track makes me sick...

Racing continues to get closer and closer to the end here it seems.

[toussaud]

I will even take it a step farther

one of the reasons horse racing will not grow is becuase a certain aspect of horsesman are afraid that too much growth = too much money given out = here comes the out of towner big money stables to take OUR purses.

[Moyers Pond]

The big loser in this is NYRA with both Belmont and Saratoga taking huge hits in terms of top horses. If Monmouth is putting up $1,000,000 a day in purses and competing with Belmont and Saratoga F-Sun, Belmont and Saratoga are going to get watered down to very small fields and pretty ordinary racing.

[The Hawk]

...Belmont and Saratoga are going to get watered down to very small fields and pretty ordinary racing.

Seems like Belmont is already pretty watered down. If they were smart, they'd follow suit and cut down on their races pre-Saratoga.

[Brogan]

Brogan I am not disputing what you had said about the stabling area of the Meadowlands, but I had a thought....What would be so different about a stall for horses of either breed ?...A horse is a horse as I see it ....In fact there should be even more room for a T-bred horse in the stabling area as the Tack for harness-horses, including sulkies, and harness requires more room than what a T-bed would require, such as "a" saddle....Perhaps the surface in the walking areas might be different or something, I just can't envision what would make it unsafe or inappropriate for a T-bred vs. a S-bred...Please enlighten me a bit...

The stalls, per se, are not the issue. Its the layout that is the problem.

The temperment of the two breeds is quite different, as well as how you handle them. I've seen a few s-breds cranked up, but in general they are much calmer than a t-bred.

When a s-bred is cooling out, he is generally cross tied inside his stall with a couple of heavy blankets over him. A t-bred is walked until he cools outs. Its this walking with stalls on both sides that makes things dicey. With stalls on both sides, you have horsemen on both sides and the high strung t-bred is walking between people. So many times they see something, or think they see something, that spooks them. The hot walker has them on a leather lead with a chain that goes over the bridge of their nose. This is usually effective in controlling where their head goes...the problem is the rest of the horse that can go any direction it feels like. Every horseman has had a horse rear, bolt, wheel or buck on them for reasons known and unknown.

[thespaah]

Brogan I am not disputing what you had said about the stabling area of the Meadowlands, but I had a thought....What would be so different about a stall for horses of either breed ?...A horse is a horse as I see it ....In fact there should be even more room for a T-bred horse in the stabling area as the Tack for harness-horses, including sulkies, and harness requires more room than what a T-bed would require, such as "a" saddle....Perhaps the surface in the walking areas might be different or something, I just can't envision what would make it unsafe or inappropriate for a T-bred vs. a S-bred...Please enlighten me a bit...
I worked with both breeds. T-Breds need more space because they are larger animals. And they are harder to control. T-Breds tend to be high strung. Where as S-Breds can be donwright mellow.
BTW Both breeds shoul dbe stabled in barns where they can see outside. Horses are hered animals. And as such tend ot behave better when they can se outside. Take a look at barns at older tracks.At those, barns are built with shed rows on the exteriror of the structure. Barns are not built like that anymore. Escpecially in northern climnate zones where racing is year round.

[alhattab]

Todays conference call with the horseman has been cancelled due to the weather.

A buddy of mine let me know that DRF.com posted a piece by Matt Hegarty talking about the Mth situation and saying the horsemen were supportive. An hour later they replaced the headline with "shortened Monmouth meet not a certainty". I wonder who called him?

[onefast99]

A buddy of mine let me know that DRF.com posted a piece by Matt Hegarty talking about the Mth situation and saying the horsemen were supportive. An hour later they replaced the headline with "shortened Monmouth meet not a certainty". I wonder who called him?
Once the horseman who have supported MP for many years get a wind of what has transpired there will be a lot of upset people. Look at the situation this way, you have a trainer who carves out a niche with a few jbreds and some 5k and 10k claimers. He prepares for the winter by laying up these horses at a cost of about $25 per day. He also prepares for what he thinks will be a competitive MP meet based on the same amount of racing days as the previous year and roughly the same format including a lot of 5k claiming races on weekdays. He is now told by the people who he elected to represent him that MP has decided to change the format with about 65 days until it opens. How is this trainer suppose to shift gears and get a few "competitive" horses based on the new format overnight? It can't happen. Those big outfits like Pletcher, Mott, Levine and others will command more stalls and the better horses will gravitate to them leaving the smaller owner and trainer looking at other tracks to run at.

[alhattab]

Once the horseman who have supported MP for many years get a wind of what has transpired there will be a lot of upset people. Look at the situation this way, you have a trainer who carves out a niche with a few jbreds and some 5k and 10k claimers. He prepares for the winter by laying up these horses at a cost of about $25 per day. He also prepares for what he thinks will be a competitive MP meet based on the same amount of racing days as the previous year and roughly the same format including a lot of 5k claiming races on weekdays. He is now told by the people who he elected to represent him that MP has decided to change the format with about 65 days until it opens. How is this trainer suppose to shift gears and get a few "competitive" horses based on the new format overnight? It can't happen. Those big outfits like Pletcher, Mott, Levine and others will command more stalls and the better horses will gravitate to them leaving the smaller owner and trainer looking at other tracks to run at.

I agree there's not enough time to adjust. They'd have to be creative w/the condition book to protect the guys that have been there and have filled the entry box day-after-day. I don't know exactly how to do that other than through the restricted state-bred races.

[DSB]

A buddy of mine let me know that DRF.com posted a piece by Matt Hegarty talking about the Mth situation and saying the horsemen were supportive. An hour later they replaced the headline with "shortened Monmouth meet not a certainty". I wonder who called him?

What he should have said is: "The carpetbagging elitists" are supportive.

I'm a small time owner/trainer who figures to get destroyed by this arrangement.

I have many friends who are in the same boat as I (birds of a feather....etc).

One thing I would like to see is a definition of "the horsemen". I can tell you that neither I nor any of the people I routinely confer with are ever told about these "meetings", let alone asked for any input or opinion.

I doubt a great degree of support would come from those who will be wiped out if this becomes reality.

The small guys - those with 4 horses or less, many of whom are year-round NJ residents, are never considered - until it's time to fill a $5k claimer. Then the phone rings.

Maybe Hegarty got a call from one of "us".

But wait..... if that were the case, he'd just ignore it, like those who are "really in the racing business" always do.....

[Brogan]

I agree there's not enough time to adjust. They'd have to be creative w/the condition book to protect the guys that have been there and have filled the entry box day-after-day. I don't know exactly how to do that other than through the restricted state-bred races.

The guys that run big J-bred barns shouldn't have trouble, and in fact will love it. There's no way they'd abandon the J-bred program. However the little guy with the cheap stock will wind up on the outside looking in.

[onefast99]

What he should have said is: "The carpetbagging elitists" are supportive.

I'm a small time owner/trainer who figures to get destroyed by this arrangement.

I have many friends who are in the same boat as I (birds of a feather....etc).

One thing I would like to see is a definition of "the horsemen". I can tell you that neither I nor any of the people I routinely confer with are ever told about these "meetings", let alone asked for any input or opinion.

I doubt a great degree of support would come from those who will be wiped out if this becomes reality.

The small guys - those with 4 horses or less, many of whom are year-round NJ residents, are never considered - until it's time to fill a $5k claimer. Then the phone rings.

Maybe Hegarty got a call from one of "us".

But wait..... if that were the case, he'd just ignore it, like those who are "really in the racing business" always do.....
No one was informed that this type of racing would occur in 2010. Kulina mentioned this last year as an alternative to the current format where it is evident the track is losing a lot of money. The horseman elected Forbes to represent them he has not returned any phone calls according to the DRF article, in fact none of the NJ racing officials have. There is a need for change but not at the expense of those who have helped shape the history of NJ racing.

[Bluto Blutarsky]

No one was informed that this type of racing would occur in 2010. Kulina mentioned this last year as an alternative to the current format where it is evident the track is losing a lot of money. The horseman elected Forbes to represent them he has not returned any phone calls according to the DRF article, in fact none of the NJ racing officials have. There is a need for change but not at the expense of those who have helped shape the history of NJ racing.

Forbes literally is on a fishing trip and has been unavailable for comment.
It is my understanding that under the proposed Monmouth meet, that the racing office will card 12 races a day- 2.5 of which will be NJ Bred restricted races.
Keep in mind- this is a 1 year deal only because the casino supplement money runs out at the end of this year.

[onefast99]

Forbes literally is on a fishing trip and has been unavailable for comment.
It is my understanding that under the proposed Monmouth meet, that the racing office will card 12 races a day- 2.5 of which will be NJ Bred restricted races.
Keep in mind- this is a 1 year deal only because the casino supplement money runs out at the end of this year.
There is no "1 year deal" the previous format was agreed upon and the new format was to have been voted on after the casino revenues were done which is this year. Kulina put this into motion after asking a few "horseman" what they thought of a boutique meet where purses would be 1m per day and the Weds and Thurs racing eliminated as well as the Meadowlands meet. There was no advance warning this would occur in 2010. This is not agreed upon by any of the horseman in the form of a vote. To make matters worse no one has responded to the "rumors" that are flying around from either the NJTHA or the racing commission.

[Pell Mell]

I've been hearing this same argument for over 50 years. Get higher purses, which will draw quality horses and the handle will go way up. It's all Bullshit!

The big guys come in with a barn full of 2yr olds and take all the space and then only enter a couple for the whole meet.

As for myself as a better, I like to watch but hate to bet on the so called classy races. I cut my teeth at MP but haven't made 10 bets there in 10 yrs. The place sucks and will never get back to what it once was. Just my 2 cents. :sleeping:

[DSB]

If you want up to the minute info from the NJTHA, you have to look no farther than their extensive, informative website:

http://www.njtha.com/

Is it any wonder that most NJ horsemen are kept in the dark?

[Robert Goren]

I've been hearing this same argument for over 50 years. Get higher purses, which will draw quality horses and the handle will go way up. It's all Bullshit!

The big guys come in with a barn full of 2yr olds and take all the space and then only enter a couple for the whole meet.

As for myself as a better, I like to watch but hate to bet on the so called classy races. I cut my teeth at MP but haven't made 10 bets there in 10 yrs. The place sucks and will never get back to what it once was. Just my 2 cents. :sleeping: This is what I have observed too.

[onefast99]

I've been hearing this same argument for over 50 years. Get higher purses, which will draw quality horses and the handle will go way up. It's all Bullshit!

The big guys come in with a barn full of 2yr olds and take all the space and then only enter a couple for the whole meet.

As for myself as a better, I like to watch but hate to bet on the so called classy races. I cut my teeth at MP but haven't made 10 bets there in 10 yrs. The place sucks and will never get back to what it once was. Just my 2 cents. :sleeping:
A new format has been kicked around for a long time, Bob Kulina wanted nothing more then a boutique meet but he never received the backing to do it. I don't mind change but the meet is ready to start May 7th and Monday is march 1st and no one knows what the changes are or how they will be affected, that's the main issue!

[lamboguy]

A new format has been kicked around for a long time, Bob Kulina wanted nothing more then a boutique meet but he never received the backing to do it. I don't mind change but the meet is ready to start May 7th and Monday is march 1st and no one knows what the changes are or how they will be affected, that's the main issue!i hate to tell you this, but pelll mel got it right. kulina sold us out. horse race handle got nothing to do with a boutique meet, it has to do with competetiveness. they just bought competetive races with the purses that they are going to offer. they could have done it a different way though, and there would have been alot more happy people. as of today pletcher,mcglaughlin, dutrow, larry jones,michael matz are all foaming at the mouth with this change

[Bluto Blutarsky]

i hate to tell you this, but pelll mel got it right. kulina sold us out. horse race handle got nothing to do with a boutique meet, it has to do with competetiveness. they just bought competetive races with the purses that they are going to offer. they could have done it a different way though, and there would have been alot more happy people. as of today pletcher,mcglaughlin, dutrow, larry jones,michael matz are all foaming at the mouth with this change

The latest thing I have heard is that no one will be given preference when entering in races.
Shippers will have an equal chance of getting in a race as trainers stabled at Monmouth. Van Companies & Haulers...start your engines!!!

[The Hawk]

i hate to tell you this, but pelll mel got it right. kulina sold us out. horse race handle got nothing to do with a boutique meet, it has to do with competetiveness. they just bought competetive races with the purses that they are going to offer. they could have done it a different way though, and there would have been alot more happy people. as of today pletcher,mcglaughlin, dutrow, larry jones,michael matz are all foaming at the mouth with this change

Lambo, what do you think would be a different way that would make everyone happy, including the new governor?

[onefast99]

The latest thing I have heard is that no one will be given preference when entering in races.
Shippers will have an equal chance of getting in a race as trainers stabled at Monmouth. Van Companies & Haulers...start your engines!!!
Why would someone be given preference unless there is a race carded that rewards horses who are on the grounds like Penn has. The big question is will this new format occur this year or next?

[thespaah]

What he should have said is: "The carpetbagging elitists" are supportive.

I'm a small time owner/trainer who figures to get destroyed by this arrangement.

I have many friends who are in the same boat as I (birds of a feather....etc).

One thing I would like to see is a definition of "the horsemen". I can tell you that neither I nor any of the people I routinely confer with are ever told about these "meetings", let alone asked for any input or opinion.

I doubt a great degree of support would come from those who will be wiped out if this becomes reality.

The small guys - those with 4 horses or less, many of whom are year-round NJ residents, are never considered - until it's time to fill a $5k claimer. Then the phone rings.

Maybe Hegarty got a call from one of "us".

But wait..... if that were the case, he'd just ignore it, like those who are "really in the racing business" always do.....
I am empathetic to the plight of the small barn guys.
It isn't right for a schedule change to wind up in effect excluding loyal stables/owners/trainers what have you.
Why is it that tracks would not be agreeable to reserving stall space for loyal outfits? WHy is it not possible for racing secy's to write races for those who promise to be on the grounds and entering their horses?

If the big guns like Pletcher et, al are going to apply for stalls at MTH, let them have what they need. not what they want and leave space for you guys.

[Brogan]

If you want up to the minute info from the NJTHA, you have to look no farther than their extensive, informative website:

http://www.njtha.com/

Is it any wonder that most NJ horsemen are kept in the dark?
Gotta figure the webmaster probably pulls down about $75k annually from the NJTHA.
:D :D :D

[netbet]

As a bettor, I love the idea of shorter meets. We all know that there is just too much racing going on.

I have a feeling that Saratoga will be hurt by the Monmouth meet should this actually happen. I'd have to believe they are at least going to try it for one season?


http://www.nj.com/sports/njsports/index.ssf/2010/02/monmouth_park.html (http://www.nj.com/sports/njsports/index.ssf/2010/02/monmouth_park.html)

[thespaah]

As a bettor, I love the idea of shorter meets. We all know that there is just too much racing going on.

I have a feeling that Saratoga will be hurt by the Monmouth meet should this actually happen. I'd have to believe they are at least going to try it for one season?


http://www.nj.com/sports/njsports/index.ssf/2010/02/monmouth_park.html (http://www.nj.com/sports/njsports/index.ssf/2010/02/monmouth_park.html)
Finally someone who sees the light as I do.
Yes threre is far too much racing. Also there are too many tracks in geographic proximity to one another operating simultaneously.
Also there are state jursidictions squabbling over the same audience. Especially in the Northeast.
The problem has many layers. The most prominent..
Most states use racing as a source of revenue ONLY. Many jursidictions have raised takeouts to ridiculous levels and have added more and more race dates to the calendar.
If casinos had to operate with states confiscating the percentages from them that track patrons cough up, they'd send out their own armed security forces to their respective state capitals and place them under siege.
I also believe that horsemen's groups have conflicting desires and wants. In some cases horsemen seem to operate illogically. It seems to me in some instances horsemen do not see the forest for the trees.
Racetrack managements.. These people operate with a business model out of a movie..If you build it, they will come. It doesn't wash.
Racetrack mgments are among the poorest marketers of product in the world.
Track mgmnts treat their customers as though they are merely tolerated instead of welcomed.
Lousy food in refreshment stands coupled with high prices, nasty mutuel clerks, security people etc. Bad overall customer service.

[thespaah]

As a bettor, I love the idea of shorter meets. We all know that there is just too much racing going on.

I have a feeling that Saratoga will be hurt by the Monmouth meet should this actually happen. I'd have to believe they are at least going to try it for one season?


http://www.nj.com/sports/njsports/index.ssf/2010/02/monmouth_park.html (http://www.nj.com/sports/njsports/index.ssf/2010/02/monmouth_park.html)
I don;t agree. Saratoga s the pre-eminent thoroughbred meet in the country. Hands down.
Yes there may be some siphoning off of lesser animals to Mth as horsement see the purse structure. But as anyone in th eknow is well aware a winners photo taken at Saratoga is an achievement. It has prestige.
"Wow, is that a horse that won at Saratoga?!!!!!
"Oh you had a winner. Where's....what's that track's name. Oh, Monmouth. Yeah, I have heard of it"..

BTW I think the Million dollar per day purse number being kicked around is a bit unreal. Even if Mth cards 12 races per day, that's $80,000 per race.
That's a bunch of money for MDN SPW...

[Brogan]

BTW I think the Million dollar per day purse number being kicked around is a bit unreal. Even if Mth cards 12 races per day, that's $80,000 per race.

That's a bunch of money for MDN SPW...

It's worse than that. $80,000 per race is an average per race.
Some races would be higher, some lower.

Last year MDN SPW's at MTH had $38,000 purses...so using the average of tripling the daily purses, MDN SPW's in 2010 will have pots of $114,000.

Why am I having a hard time seeing this actually happen???

[onefast99]

It's worse than that. $80,000 per race is an average per race.
Some races would be higher, some lower.

Last year MDN SPW's at MTH had $38,000 purses...so using the average of tripling the daily purses, MDN SPW's in 2010 will have pots of $114,000.

Why am I having a hard time seeing this actually happen???
Trying to guess at the purse structures accomplishes nothing, at this time most of the information is with Bob Kulina(VP Monmouth Park) and Forbes who heads the NJTHA. I am sure within the next few days there will be more information on the purse structure and the new format.

[thespaah]

It's worse than that. $80,000 per race is an average per race.
Some races would be higher, some lower.

Last year MDN SPW's at MTH had $38,000 purses...so using the average of tripling the daily purses, MDN SPW's in 2010 will have pots of $114,000.

Why am I having a hard time seeing this actually happen???Looking at my programs MSW at Saratoga in 2009 generally went for $56k (2yo colt sprints).
Mth purses would be twice that plus 2k..
I wo9nder what a black type allowance purse would be. $125,000? How about an overnight stake.
At Saratoga last year , overnight stake purses were $75k....So based on the 2x logic, an overnight stake at Mth would pay what is essentially a middle purse Grade 3...A little unrealistic.
Now if Mth decides to bump all purses say 10 or 20% and then dump a ton of money into their restricted and graded stakes, well then theoretically Mth could grab some pretty good horses from Sar.

[thespaah]

Trying to guess at the purse structures accomplishes nothing, at this time most of the information is with Bob Kulina(VP Monmouth Park) and Forbes who heads the NJTHA. I am sure within the next few days there will be more information on the purse structure and the new format.WHy not...It's fun..

[Brogan]

Trying to guess at the purse structures accomplishes nothing...
Thank you captain obvious...that was my point.

[castaway01]

The whole thing is complicated. As I wrote and others have said, NJ horsemen did get sold out here. On the other hand, for several years Monmouth has been running races filled with those state-breds, and what has that done for handle? The tracks are losing money so a change in the quality of racing had to be made, but it could be a change that drives your everyday owners and trainers out of the business. Hopefully they will be around in 2011, because the casino subsidy will be gone (this is the last year and believe it or not the casinos are hurting just as badly as the tracks, so it's not coming back) and purses will likely be somewhere between 2009 and 2010 levels.

If you want to say, "Well, raising purses doesn't improve handle"...then if lower purses don't work and higher purses don't work, that's not exactly good news for the future of racing, is it? At least this is an attempt to change things, and we'll see how it goes. If it fails, then it can be added to the list of failures in racing, but at least NJ is trying to shake things up. If we still have six-horse fields of uncompetitive but much richer races, we'll know we can get the same thing for 1/4 of the purse money.

[NJ Stinks]

From the Asbury Park Press website:

Forbes said: "If it's the death knell for the small horseman, it's because the small horsemen doesn't have the horses that customers want (to bet on). I don't think it's the death knell. I think it's the opportunity to recognize that not to upgrade, not to improve the product for the consumer is a prescription to eventually be eliminated."

The entire article is at the link below:

http://www.app.com/article/20100309/NEWS/3090354/Monmouth-Park-plans-compact-schedule