Santa Anita cancelled for special Monday racing.

[Stillriledup]

SA cancelling racing today on their newly named sunny-weather track (previously called all weather)

[letswastemoney]

lol

[andymays]

http://www.santaanita.com/content/workout-webcam

Standing water not good!

If a moderator wants to delete the thread I started ( All Weather? Looks like standing water on the Pro Ride) about Santa Anita I would appreciate it.

Thanks.

[redshift1]

I'm betting no racing till Saturday or Sunday and that's a best case scenario. The heavier rain is forecast for later this week.

[Stillriledup]

They should just announce racing cancelled to Saturday and give everyone a week off. It certainly won't hurt anyone and might help field sizes on the weekends.

[andymays]

They should just announce racing cancelled to Saturday and give everyone a week off. It certainly won't hurt anyone and might help field sizes on the weekends.


I won't be surprised if they come up with a reason to take 3 weeks off and put dirt back in so they can lobby for a Rachel v Zenyatta matchup out here. They're gonna do it after the meet anyway so they can get the Breeders Cup back for 2011.

The three weeks off would do everyone some good.

[joanied]

They should just announce racing cancelled to Saturday and give everyone a week off. It certainly won't hurt anyone and might help field sizes on the weekends.

Good idea, and this way, folks are not waiting...they just know it's closed...

[joanied]

I won't be surprised if they come up with a reason to take 3 weeks off and put dirt back in so they can lobby for a Rachel v Zenyatta matchup out here. They're gonna do it after the meet anyway so they can get the Breeders Cup back for 2011.

The three weeks off would do everyone some good.

I don't know, andy...what about training? can every horse that NEEDS to train go elsewhere to get that done?

You say they plan on closing after the meet to tear the surface up?? The whole thing? Are the plans to go back to dirt, or just re do the damned plastic?
Hey...SA...dirt, dirt, dirt, dirt, dirt:faint:

[rwwupl]

I won't be surprised if they come up with a reason to take 3 weeks off and put dirt back in so they can lobby for a Rachel v Zenyatta matchup out here. They're gonna do it after the meet anyway so they can get the Breeders Cup back for 2011.

The three weeks off would do everyone some good.


I am waiting for synthetic supporters to give us more spin on the benefits of the all weather tracks, so I can get at least a laugh out of this affair. ;)

[andymays]

I am waiting for synthetic supporters to give us more spin on the benefits of the all weather tracks, so I can get at least a laugh out of this affair. ;)


They're dug in to their position. :eek: :rolleyes:

[BillW]

They're dug in to their position. :eek: :rolleyes:

Are you guys saying that if the top layer were dirt it would drain properly?

[andymays]

Are you guys saying that if the top layer were dirt it would drain properly?


No it would be sealed and the water would be running off.

The dirt people didn't make the outrageous claims like the synthetic geeks did. The burden is on them. The synthetic infomercial was misleading at best.

[illinoisbred]

I thought when synthetics were installed an improved drainage system was to be included . I know you're having a lot of rain out there, but did the old dirt surface pocket or retain so much water on the surface?

[andymays]

I thought when synthetics were installed an improved drainage system was to be included . I know you're having a lot of rain out there, but did the old dirt surface pocket or retain so much water on the surface?


They used to just seal it.

Maybe they can call another guy from halfway around the world to tell them what to do. They called Ian Pearse from Australia last time. Maybe there is someone in Tibet that can help them. What's the cost of a round trip ticket from Tibet International Airport? :rolleyes: :eek:

[statepierback]

:confused: Sad situation.

[Zman179]

This is pathetic. It used to be that So Cal would never cancel unless there was nearby forest fires or something.

[andymays]

Is there any truth to the rumor that Jeff P or rwwupl put the "eye" on them after the CHRB meeting?

I can't blame them if they did.


That would explain the misfortune with the surface. :eek:

[46zilzal]

I played Anita all through college and the only times I was not follwing it were several weekends when I was a junior: it rained so hard, so long, that the moving company I worked for were EVACUATING people near the flood control system due to backup of water.

Did they cancel then? Not a day......Good old dirt has no problems with water.

[andymays]

The Chaplains can't take it anymore either.

You know your screwed when the Chaplains leave the state of California for greener pastures. ;) :D

http://sports.espn.go.com/sports/horse/news/story?id=4832342

[Seabiscuit@AR]

I see the failure of the AW track to drain as another plus for Pro-Ride at Santa Anita

Let's be honest. There is too much racing. Southern Cal is going 5 days a week almost every week of the year non stop. Running a rubbish meeting on a wet dirt track with small fields is worse than running no meeting at all

Missing a few meetings is a blessing. It gives people a few days break to refresh. It could also mean you will get fuller fields in the next few weeks as horses will miss a run on the cancelled days and be looking to run again soon

Cancelled meetings are a much better option than a dreary meeting with small fields on slippery tracks. So Pro-Ride has done it again

Now they just need to make an official announcement about only having 4 day weeks at Santa Anita and we will be making progress (as long as it the 4 day weeks improve the depth of the fields and I think they will)

More tracks should be looking at Pro-Ride

[Boats]

I'm no fan of plastic tracks, but they don't seem to have problems with Tapeta at Golden Gate. Is it just Santa Anita or do other synthetic tracks have the same problem.

[andymays]

I'm no fan of plastic tracks, but they don't seem to have problems with Tapeta at Golden Gate. Is it just Santa Anita or do other synthetic tracks have the same problem.


They messed up the base when they first put it in. Then they dug it up and supposedly fixed it.

Hollywood and Del Mar don't get the rain Santa Anita does. In fact at Del Mar it's only rained about three times in the last 30 years of the live meet in the summer.

[levinmpa]

I'm no fan of plastic tracks, but they don't seem to have problems with Tapeta at Golden Gate. Is it just Santa Anita or do other synthetic tracks have the same problem.

Santa Anita's synthetic surface has been plagued by an original installation problem with the drainage system. The original Cushion Track was mixed with a type of sand that was very fine and washed down into and clogged the drainage. Even though the system has been cleaned once after the removal of the Cushion Track, and again this past Summer, they have been unable to remove all of the fine sand that causes the problem.

Track President Ron Charles was just interviewed on HRTV in the past 1/2 hour. He said an announement regarding the future of the racing surface is coming soon. He also said that the Pro Ride surface would be removed at the the end of the Winter/Spring meeting.

[andymays]

Santa Anita's synthetic surface has been plagued by an original installation problem with the drainage system. The original Cushion Track was mixed with a type of sand that was very fine and washed down into and clogged the drainage. Even though the system has been cleaned once after the removal of the Cushion Track, and again this past Summer, they have been unable to remove all of the fine sand that causes the problem.

Track President Ron Charles was just interviewed on HRTV in the past 1/2 hour. He said an announement regarding the future of the racing surface is coming soon. He also said that the Pro Ride surface would be removed at the the end of the Winter/Spring meeting.


Outstanding! :ThmbUp: :ThmbUp:

I got an email a few minutes ago and was double checking to make sure it was true.

[Horseplayersbet.com]

Outstanding! :ThmbUp: :ThmbUp:

I got an email a few minutes ago and was double checking to make sure it was true.
Would it be OK if they raised takeout a couple of points to pay for the switch?

[andymays]

Would it be OK if they raised takeout a couple of points to pay for the switch?


Honestly and for me personally it's worth 10%. Especially at the Santa Anita meet.

I hope you guys take this seriously and put the disclaimer in when you rate Polytrack/Keenland number one. They are resonsible for promoting these junk surfaces. Del Mar/Polytrack and Arlington/Polytrack are the next to fall.

[Horseplayersbet.com]

Honestly and for me personally it's worth 10%. Especially at the Santa Anita meet.

I hope you guys take this seriously and put the disclaimer in when you rate Polytrack/Keenland number one. They are resonsible for promoting these junk surfaces. Del Mar/Polytrack and Arlington/Polytrack are the next to fall.
If Santa Anita raises their takeout by 2% handle will die.
If Santa Anita goes back to dirt and raises its takeout by 2%, handle will still die.

[andymays]

If Santa Anita raises their takeout by 2% handle will die.
If Santa Anita goes back to dirt and raises its takeout by 2%, handle will still die.


Synthetic surfaces are my number one issue and takeout is next. California may not be able to come back from this but at least they finally did the right thing.

You guys are making a huge mistake by either ignoring how bad this stuff is or not being able to realize how bad it is.

By rating Keenland #1 you are endorsing their partnership with Polytrack.

[Horseplayersbet.com]

Synthetic surfaces are my number one issue and takeout is next. California may not be able to come back from this but at least they finally did the right thing.

You guys are making a huge mistake by either ignoring how bad this stuff is or not being able to realize how bad it is.

By rating Keenland #1 you are endorsing their partnership with Polytrack.
All we are doing is ignoring race surfaces. Just as I believe race surfaces will be ignored tonight when making the right choice for HOY.

[illinoisbred]

Polytrack destroyed the historical significance of both the spring and fall meets at Keeneland..

[46zilzal]

All we are doing is ignoring race surfaces. Just as I believe race surfaces will be ignored tonight when making the right choice for HOY.
No voter can remain that objective. They might profess objectivity, but knowing the schism that these surfaces have caused will over-ride that.

[andymays]

Polytrack destroyed the historical significance of both the spring and fall meets at Keeneland..


A couple of weeks ago I spent 20 minutes on the phone with Mr Pendergast of Polytrack. Nice guy who answered all my tough questions even though I told him how I felt about it. He thinks his product is safer but he admitted that most trainers don't like it.

[andymays]

All we are doing is ignoring race surfaces. Just as I believe race surfaces will be ignored tonight when making the right choice for HOY.


You guys fall all over yourselves when it comes to keenland. C'mon now.

If you didn't have a membership to consider it would be OK. You know how many people don't like Polytrack. Keenland is the mothership for Polytrack.

Big fields and lower take and that's good but you need to put a disclaimer in the ratings that say "we did not consider surface when rating the tracks". A Simple concession.

[Stillriledup]

You guys fall all over yourselves when it comes to keenland. C'mon now.

If you didn't have a membership to consider it would be OK. You know how many people don't like Polytrack. Keenland is the mothership for Polytrack.

Big fields and lower take and that's good but you need to put a disclaimer in the ratings that say "we did not consider surface when rating the tracks". A Simple concession.

Many players complain about Keeneland because of the random results. Poly over there throws conventional handicapping out the window and turned horse racing into jockey racing. Remember that crazy bluegrass with Street sense? I think they went 3 quarters in like 117 and streaked home, turned that graded race into a farce.

[andymays]

Many players complain about Keeneland because of the random results. Poly over there throws conventional handicapping out the window and turned horse racing into jockey racing. Remember that crazy bluegrass with Street sense? I think they went 3 quarters in like 117 and streaked home, turned that graded race into a farce.


This is part of the problem and it's not all the manufacturers fault. The Trainers complain when its run to specifications because nobody can win on the lead. Horseplayers complain too. So what do they do? They mess with it to play more like dirt. When they do that it loses it's cushion.

They either need to run it to specifications or go back to dirt.

[Horseplayersbet.com]

This is part of the problem and it's not all the manufacturers fault. The Trainers complain when its run to specifications because nobody can win on the lead. Horseplayers complain too. So what do they do? They mess with it to play more like dirt. When they do that it loses it's cushion.

They either need to run it to specifications or go back to dirt.
I do think that racetracks wish they didn't even go the plastics route. Even Willmot recently said the jury is out. It causes different types of injuries on horses, and maybe even more of them. And it isn't a great thing to fall on if you are a jockey either.

I don't think there is anyone in North America saying they are glad they went plastic and actually mean it.

I also agree that it causes races to be run much like turf races. The horse that kicks in the last 3 eighth has the best advantage as long as the trip is good too. Too much randomness when it comes to handicapping. I like randomness to a degree though.

[andymays]

I do think that racetracks wish they didn't even go the plastics route. Even Willmot recently said the jury is out. It causes different types of injuries on horses, and maybe even more of them. And it isn't a great thing to fall on if you are a jockey either.

I don't think there is anyone in North America saying they are glad they went plastic and actually mean it.

I also agree that it causes races to be run much like turf races. The horse that kicks in the last 3 eighth has the best advantage as long as the trip is good too. Too much randomness when it comes to handicapping. I like randomness to a degree though.


And on top of that how has it enhanced the road to the Triple Crown or the battle for HOY?

[Horseplayersbet.com]

And on top of that how has it enhanced the road to the Triple Crown or the battle for HOY?
I think because of the randomness it creates, the fact a horse like Zenyatta can overcome all that to remain undefeated, including a win in the Super Bowl, she should be a hands down winner tonight.

I don't worry about the TC implications though since all TC races are on the dirt.
Strategies employed by trainers regarding plastics preps are still strategies.

[Spalding No!]

I don't worry about the TC implications though since all TC races are on the dirt.
Strategies employed by trainers regarding plastics preps are still strategies.

So it's no big deal that the Blue Grass, Santa Anita Derby, Jim Beam, and all their supporting races become moot as far as the TC goes?

[andymays]

I think because of the randomness it creates, the fact a horse like Zenyatta can overcome all that to remain undefeated, including a win in the Super Bowl, she should be a hands down winner tonight.

I don't worry about the TC implications though since all TC races are on the dirt.
Strategies employed by trainers regarding plastics preps are still strategies.


Zenyatta has the perfect style for Pro Ride. It complimented her style more than any other surface.

[fmolf]

So it's no big deal that the Blue Grass, Santa Anita Derby, Jim Beam, and all their supporting races become moot as far as the TC goes?
Fake races on fake dirt...

[Tom]

More tracks should be looking at Pro-Ride

Like Saratoga, Gulfstream, Tampa Bay, Oaklawn, Churchill, Pimlico?
Yeah, it would do a lot to ease up traffic jams and free up parking. :rolleyes:

[tzipi]

More tracks should be looking at Pro-Ride

God I hope thats a joke. I think 90% of trainers would disagree with you too. Plus why do we need all turf racing. We need dirt racing too. No to pro-ride.

[so.cal.fan]

The fact that Stronach has privately purchased SA and that he was totally opposed to synthetic track at this oval, it seems a certaintly that the dirt will be back at Oak Tree to stay.
These sythetic tracks have cost Santa Anita a fortune.
I predict Del Mar will follow suit.
Good news for all who don't fancy synthetic tracks.

Now if we can just keep the takeout down.....we're all back in business!

[andymays]

The fact that Stronach has privately purchased SA and that he was totally opposed to synthetic track at this oval, it seems a certaintly that the dirt will be back at Oak Tree to stay.
These sythetic tracks have cost Santa Anita a fortune.
I predict Del Mar will follow suit.
Good news for all who don't fancy synthetic tracks.

Now if we can just keep the takeout down.....we're all back in business!


You got it right! :ThmbUp:

[Saratoga_Mike]

You got it right! :ThmbUp:

What are the legislative hurdles to converting the Cali tracks back to dirt?

[andymays]

They've said (CHRB) for a while now that any track owner that wanted to change would be allowed to.

[Stillriledup]

They've said (CHRB) for a while now that any track owner that wanted to change would be allowed to.


Interesting.

[andymays]

Interesting.


The track owners have always controlled the CHRB and do to this very day.

[Stillriledup]

The track owners have always controlled the CHRB and do to this very day.


I think the betting handle would double overnight if they went back to dirt. Many huge horseplayers have went away and refuse to bet plastic. They have cost themselves tens of millions of dollars in handle over the last few years by installing a track knee jerk style without asking any large bettors if they would continue to support this synthetic product.

[miesque]

I think the betting handle would double overnight if they went back to dirt. Many huge horseplayers have went away and refuse to bet plastic. They have cost themselves tens of millions of dollars in handle over the last few years by installing a track knee jerk style without asking any large bettors if they would continue to support this synthetic product.

Just to clarify, are you saying that if California went back to dirt, its handle would double even though handle has gotten decimated in many prominent dirt tracks which should have actually technically increased being a beneficiary of all the "I don't bet synthetic" horseplayers revolt?

[cj]

It is probably too late for SoCal. There are not many horses and the purses suck. Installing moon dust isn't going to change things.

I'm no fan of synthetics, but it is not a major factor in the demise of racing in SoCal. It certainly didn't help, but there are bigger problems. It isn't like glory days were upon the circuit when dirt was last the surface of choice.

[andymays]

I think the betting handle would double overnight if they went back to dirt. Many huge horseplayers have went away and refuse to bet plastic. They have cost themselves tens of millions of dollars in handle over the last few years by installing a track knee jerk style without asking any large bettors if they would continue to support this synthetic product.


There are quite a few big players that I know who will come back but unless they boost the fields and the quality of racing California will still suffer.

This was one of the worst decisions in racing history and those that were't able to see that have questionable judgement at best. As the comments come out from those in charge and the talking heads on TVG and HRTV about how bad this stuff really is it will be interesting to see the reaction of all the people who were "punked" by this fraud.

Remember one of the good guys in racing John Shirreffs and Trainer of Zenyatta said synthetics are one of the worst things to ever happen to racing and he's right. The synthetic geeks need to get a clue!

[Robert Goren]

Already the home of the 4/5 favorite, now the big boys (with their computers who love the dirt) will come in and make it the home of the 1/2 favorite.

[andymays]

Already the home of the 4/5 favorite, now the big boys (with their computers who love the dirt) will come in and make it the home of the 1/2 favorite.


If you've ever had the pleasure of being the only ticket with 6 at that chalky track (and I hope you have or will) you would know how off base that statement is.

Good Luck!

[BlueShoe]

I played Anita all through college and the only times I was not follwing it were several weekends when I was a junior: it rained so hard, so long, that the moving company I worked for were EVACUATING people near the flood control system due to backup of water.

Did they cancel then? Not a day......Good old dirt has no problems with water.
I recall that meeting, believe that it was either 68 or 69. The track was designated as off of some kind more than half of the days. During one stretch the track was so deep and saturated that it was classified as heavy. Sprints were being run five full seconds slow and routes seven or eight. Cannot recall any track in recent years being designated as heavy, in the modern era such conditions would seem to be a thing of the past. It spite of all that rain, racing continued without skipping a beat.

[elhelmete]

local news station just showed a helicopter shot of Santa Anita...it's a lake, the infield too.

I know it's a draconian thought, but why not cancel for a MONTH and get this problem solved? One has to wonder how much worse recovery from the torrential rains we're getting all week is going to be versus starting all over again with a new surface. Take the medicine NOW and cancel the next 30 days of racing.

It's like when you get into a car accident...sometimes you just wish it was totalled so you can start again.

[andymays]

local news station just showed a helicopter shot of Santa Anita...it's a lake, the infield too.

I know it's a draconian thought, but why not cancel for a MONTH and get this problem solved? One has to wonder how much worse recovery from the torrential rains we're getting all week is going to be versus starting all over again with a new surface. Take the medicine NOW and cancel the next 30 days of racing.


Webcam

http://www.santaanita.com/content/workout-webcam