Takeout Hike OK'd in California to Help Simulcast Sites

[andymays]

http://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-racing/articles/54840/takeout-hike-okd-to-help-simulcast-sites

Excerpt:

Responding to what track owner Dr. Ed Allred called "a desperate situation" at the state's simulcast wagering locations, the California Horse Racing Board agreed to hike takeout on Quarter Horse wagers at Los Alamitos Racecourse by 2% on Jan. 15.

Excerpt:

The increase was opposed by Jeff Platt, president of the Horseplayers Association of North America. Industry representatives supported the action

Excerpt:

That was Platt's main objection. He told the board that staff projections of revenue increases were "flawed."

"It assumes handle will remain the same," Platt explained. "It will not. Every study done shows that as you push up takeout, handle goes down."

Platt said his group, HANA, has more than 1,500 members who wager more than $65 million annually, and that a primary issue on which tracks they bet on is the takeout rate. He noted that California has maintained the lowest win, place and show takeout in the country.

Afterward, he said his membership "would not take it (the takeout increase) well." He said that while he understood the reason for the action, the decreasing handle problems tracks are experiencing are their own fault.

"If they were doing a better job of satisfying what customers want, they wouldn't be in this situation," Platt said. "It's just a shame."

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Up yours California racing. :mad:

[LottaKash]

Here, California, take this out......:D

best,

[DeanT]

First blog reaction received: "California takeout just went up 2% as my handle on California went down 100%."

[andymays]

First blog reaction received: "California takeout just went up 2% as my handle on California went down 100%."


This is part of an email I got from Roger Stein, Trainer and host of the Roger Stein show about the CHRB approving the raise in the takeout.... and I laughed my ass off because he makes a good point. They will never get it.


Are you ever going to "get it"?...........It's not that your heart isn't in the right place, because I'm sure it is.................but you're trying to get people to see the light, when they have lived their whole lives in darkness.............you would be better off in the middle east trying to convince suicide bombers that there will be no virgins for them in heaven!

[InsideThePylons-MW]

Are you ever going to "get it"?...........It's not that your heart isn't in the right place, because I'm sure it is.................but you're trying to get people to see the light, when they have lived their whole lives in darkness.............you would be better off in the middle east trying to convince suicide bombers that there will be no virgins for them in heaven!


What's not so funny is that he's 100% correct.

I've been banging my head against the wall for many many years with these morons and it's an act of futility. :bang:

[cj]

Am I reading this correctly, only quarterhorse races at Los Al?

Yes, I know it still sucks for any raise, but I don't care about those to be honest. If it fails to help, and it will, it might be a blessing for thoroughbred fans.

[therussmeister]

Makes kind of makes me wish I bet Los Al so I could boycott them. ;)

[InsideThePylons-MW]

Am I reading this correctly, only quarterhorse races at Los Al?

Yes, I know it still sucks for any raise, but I don't care about those to be honest. If it fails to help, and it will, it might be a blessing for thoroughbred fans.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_they_came...

[DeanT]

A handbook of takeout raises:

1. Pick an unpopular pool, unpopular track and raise takeout.

2. In two months look at revenues (they will be up)

3. Say takeout raise did not hurt handle (eg Calder's handle was flat six months after the takeout hike).

4. Move to other tracks or pools (the ones you wanted in the first place) and have less opposition

Then in a year or two or three, when handle is down, blame it on the weather, the economy, poker, or the classic favorite - offshore wagering.

So yes, "first they came" is absolutely correct. Takeout will be higher on thoroughbred races in 2010 because they just told you they do not care about the customer or lower take. As well, of course, a lowering of handle because of lack of churn in Los Al races, who bet thoroughbred races.

[BillW]

Am I reading this correctly, only quarterhorse races at Los Al?

Yes, I know it still sucks for any raise, but I don't care about those to be honest. If it fails to help, and it will, it might be a blessing for thoroughbred fans.

I'm thinking it's all races at LA, Including TB's and Arabians. I've been wrong before - but will have a confirmed answer as soon as I can.

[chickenhead]

Makes kind of makes me wish I bet Los Al so I could boycott them. ;)

maybe...

[InsideThePylons-MW]

I'm thinking it's all races at LA, Including TB's and Arabians. I've been wrong before - but will have a confirmed answer as soon as I can.

Yes....it's all races.....LA only has QH's and TB's now anymore

[cj]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_they_came...

I agree, and I thought I said as much. My only point was maybe, since it is happening anyway, its failure can do some good. I'm in no way condoning it.

I still only see it specified as QH races in the article, but I guess that is probably wrong.

[andymays]

I agree, and I thought I said as much. My only point was maybe, since it is happening anyway, its failure can do some good. I'm in no way condoning it.

I still only see it specified as QH races in the article, but I guess that is probably wrong.


It's gonna happen at Santa Anita and everywhere else in California.

[Lasix67]

My days of wagering on California tracks is DONE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Bye bye Cali......

[TurfRuler]

It's gonna happen at Santa Anita and everywhere else in California.


Sometimes the quotes of Rush Limbaugh are more important that what anyone in the world could say, including "Amos and Andy".

"What I’m illustrating here is that you’re a blockhead (California Horse Racing Board). What I’m illustrating here is that you’re a closed-minded....who is ill-informed. … And if you had listened to (HANA) for a modicum of time you would know it. But instead you’re a blockhead. You’re mind is totally closed. You have tampons in your ears. Nothing is getting through other than the biased crap that you read."

[illinoisbred]

I never have wagered on So.Cal. racing mostly due to the 2 hr. time difference. Short fields though are becoming more commonplace here, even at Hawthorne. What I find incredible is just how far California racing has fallen in the last 10-20 years. It wasn't that long ago that Santa Anita had 30,000 people attend a saturday card.

[rrbauer]

Desperate times, eh? For simulcast locations, eh? So why doesn't Ed give them a little taste out of his cut? This is the great thinking that permeates the racing business...our lousy product isn't selling well, so let's raise our prices. Never mind fixing the product to make it more competitive. Never mind reducing costs to get more revenue to flow to the bottom line. Nah, we'll get the stupid horseplayers to up the ante...they'll never know the difference.

To all those who clamor for a "positive" solution, what's your next action?

[andymays]

Desperate times, eh? For simulcast locations, eh? So why doesn't Ed give them a little taste out of his cut? This is the great thinking that permeates the racing business...our lousy product isn't selling well, so let's raise our prices. Never mind fixing the product to make it more competitive. Never mind reducing costs to get more revenue to flow to the bottom line. Nah, we'll get the stupid horseplayers to up the ante...they'll never know the difference.

To all those who clamor for a "positive" solution, what's your next action?


Horseplayer Riots! :mad:

California Racing is hemorrhaging in several areas and there is no solution at this point except to close the doors and create a museum and petting zoo.

They painted themeselves into a corner and were short sited with no plan for the future.

Not to mention that some of the Leadership really do think of their customers (Horseplayers) as a necessary evil. Screw them!

[turfnsport]

You know other juristictions and the other tracks in Cal. are rubbing their hands hoping the handle at Los Al goes up, so they too can raise the take.

The ball is in the horseplayer's court now.

[andymays]

You know other juristictions and the other tracks in Cal. are rubbing their hands hoping the handle at Los Al goes up, so they too can raise the take.

The ball is in the horseplayer's court now.


It's a certainty that the take will be raised at all the tracks in California. It was a certainty some months ago when they gave them the 5% option in California.

[DeanT]

You know other juristictions and the other tracks in Cal. are rubbing their hands hoping the handle at Los Al goes up, so they too can raise the take.

That is why this is so insidious. Handle will not fall low enough in a snapshot that they are looking at (a few months), and they will see more revenue and do it elsewhere. Handle losses (and rises) due to takeout decreases never have and never will happen overnight, just like a drop/rise in interest rates dont have a positive effect overnight.

Here are some walks through takeout-hikes (http://blog.horseplayersassociation.org/2009/12/walk-through-takeouts-past.html) past and the thinking behind them:

1993 - Hialieah:

"Hialeah owner John Brunetti will do the unimaginable; he will make Hialeah the worst place on earth to play horses. Hialeah opens April 1, April Fools' Day for South Florida bettors. Brunetti plans to institute what is believed to be the highest takeout structure in the history of U.S. thoroughbred racing. The take on win, place and show bets will be 23.1 percent and there will be a 28 percent take on all other wagers. Winning money -- never easy at the track -- will be impossible at Hialeah."

In the first six months they are rolling in dough. Then, what happened to handle there?

2000 - Laurel, raised takeout. 28 days (less than one month) later the takeout hike engineer, quoted in a press release about handle:

"In my opinion, it's had zero impact so far,"

What was Laurel's handle three or four years later? How is it doing today?

Tampa Bay back in the 1990's:

"Tampa Bay also passed the cost on to its fans, now taking 20 percent from all straight bets and 28 percent on exotics. "

They were killed years later.

Now they have dropped takeout. Year one, not bad, year two decent despite falling handles everywhere. Year three - best opening day ever and handle up 7% while the rest of the world has handle being decimated.

Just like Calder, this is pandemic. This is what happens when you raise takeouts, like they did with their hike in early 2008. For the first six months, fine, but what about the long term? Not fine.

Calder's handle 2007 $490 Million (172 Dates)
2008 $378 Million (160 Dates)
2009 $334 Million (152 Dates)

And for the "put on a show" folks: At 21% take in 2007 they brought in $102M for purses and profits. In 2009, at the higher takeout, they brought in $68.4M. If turning 102M into 70M by raising prices is considered good business, they went to the wrong business school.

California can not look past its own nose. They will raise takeouts at other tracks this year. Bank on it.

Rant over

[andymays]

These guys know what they're doing when it comes to manipulating the public. They've been doing it for years but nobody was paying much attention. The CHRB meetings are always rigged before they start and they have the controls in place to make sure they get their way.

That's why I'm so abrasive in some of the stuff I send out. There is no point in being thoughtfull and nice to these guys because they take it as a sign of weakness. For the most part the Racing media has helped these guys do what they do by staying away from the tough stories and exposing the corruption.

Once again I say "screw them" :mad:

[rrbauer]

Need to cast this in concrete for future reference:

CHRB staff calculated the 2009 Quarter Horse takeout rate at 16.09% for win, place and show wagers, and 21.53% for exotic wagers. It projected that the additional 2% withholding would net an increase of $955,338 on win, place and show bets, and $2,847,429 on exotic wagers.

[andymays]

We're on the Roger Stein Show. He mentions Jeff and he mentions me. He basically agrees with everything Jeff said but .................you have to listen to the archived show. :D


archives up at 10:00 am PST.

http://www.rogerstein.com/radio/archive2.asp

If you're a Horseplayers it's a must listen!

[tzipi]

I with some of you. I'm am totally done betting California racing. See ya!

[johnhannibalsmith]

The amazing part is that, in my opinion, Los Al was the last (read: only) bettable product to leave California on a regular basis. Why not stick a fork in the horrendous throughbred product that they offer with this insidious 'solution' and just try to 'get out' before the whole thing implodes anyway? Now they're going to short circuit the Qs too? Brilliant, indeed.

[kenwoodallpromos]

.....What I already knew:
Takeout has been decent in Ca.
A large majority of Thoroughbred race and track handicappers do not bet LA.
LA is a mix of Qtrs and Tbreds; fairs are also.
As far as I know the only Qtrhorse race associations in Ca is at LA (pre-board meeting posts said Qtrhorse (ASSOCIATIONS) would be affected, not Qtrhorse individual races at other tracks.
Allred has big influence.
LA did not have to put in Plubber.
The major reason given for not trying night Tbred racing in Ca was that it would hurt LA racing.
Because of the time difference, night racing in Ca occurs very late timewise at Central and Eastern time simuls.
Racing generally does not care about its real or potential customers.
My brother bets primarily Quarterhorse tracks, often LA and will be disappointed.
CHRB just gave PETA a thrill!
.....What noI did not know:
At the same meeting the takeout was increased, Harris junped ship (thankfully!).
At the same meeting the takeout was increased, the new Pres was the only NO VOTE). It smells suspicious to me.

[statepierback]

Los Al had the lowest takeout in California. This is not a good thing for the serious horseplayer.

[Horseplayersbet.com]

In other news, McDonalds has been monitoring the California takeout debate. They sell 550 million Big Macs a year in America. They've now decided to increase the price of Big Macs by $1.00 for each Big Mac sold, and using the CHRB's mastery of economics, they now figure they will make an extra $550 million in America from this move.

[rwwupl]

Desperate times, eh? For simulcast locations, eh? So why doesn't Ed give them a little taste out of his cut? This is the great thinking that permeates the racing business...our lousy product isn't selling well, so let's raise our prices. Never mind fixing the product to make it more competitive. Never mind reducing costs to get more revenue to flow to the bottom line. Nah, we'll get the stupid horseplayers to up the ante...they'll never know the difference.

To all those who clamor for a "positive" solution, what's your next action?


rrbauer... :ThmbUp:

rwwupl

[CincyHorseplayer]

That is why this is so insidious. Handle will not fall low enough in a snapshot that they are looking at (a few months), and they will see more revenue and do it elsewhere. Handle losses (and rises) due to takeout decreases never have and never will happen overnight, just like a drop/rise in interest rates dont have a positive effect overnight.

Here are some walks through takeout-hikes (http://blog.horseplayersassociation.org/2009/12/walk-through-takeouts-past.html) past and the thinking behind them:

1993 - Hialieah:

"Hialeah owner John Brunetti will do the unimaginable; he will make Hialeah the worst place on earth to play horses. Hialeah opens April 1, April Fools' Day for South Florida bettors. Brunetti plans to institute what is believed to be the highest takeout structure in the history of U.S. thoroughbred racing. The take on win, place and show bets will be 23.1 percent and there will be a 28 percent take on all other wagers. Winning money -- never easy at the track -- will be impossible at Hialeah."

In the first six months they are rolling in dough. Then, what happened to handle there?

2000 - Laurel, raised takeout. 28 days (less than one month) later the takeout hike engineer, quoted in a press release about handle:

"In my opinion, it's had zero impact so far,"

What was Laurel's handle three or four years later? How is it doing today?

Tampa Bay back in the 1990's:

"Tampa Bay also passed the cost on to its fans, now taking 20 percent from all straight bets and 28 percent on exotics. "

They were killed years later.

Now they have dropped takeout. Year one, not bad, year two decent despite falling handles everywhere. Year three - best opening day ever and handle up 7% while the rest of the world has handle being decimated.

Just like Calder, this is pandemic. This is what happens when you raise takeouts, like they did with their hike in early 2008. For the first six months, fine, but what about the long term? Not fine.

Calder's handle 2007 $490 Million (172 Dates)
2008 $378 Million (160 Dates)
2009 $334 Million (152 Dates)

And for the "put on a show" folks: At 21% take in 2007 they brought in $102M for purses and profits. In 2009, at the higher takeout, they brought in $68.4M. If turning 102M into 70M by raising prices is considered good business, they went to the wrong business school.

California can not look past its own nose. They will raise takeouts at other tracks this year. Bank on it.

Rant over

Wow.After reading that.Absorbing it.Calculating the net loss per season in the examples and what TB is doing.If you could get these people's attention for 5 minutes to hear this I don't see how it WOULDN'T make an impact.Platt needs to basically go in their with a megaphone asking "So your decision basically boils down to wilful supidty right??Right??Right??Right....".Til he gets an answer.

[Jeff P]

The following was written for me by a fellow horseplayer who is a HANA supporter. I agree 100% with every word:


An Open Letter to Los Alamitos Horseplayers

Last week HANA Pres Jeff Platt spoke at a CHRB meeting in opposition to a proposed 2% takeout increase at Los Alamitos. The CHRB Board, despite the evidence presented that an increase in takeout rates would have a negative impact on handle and revenues, decided to institute the raise. They also included a review process, where by the CHRB would from time to time review Los Alamitos handle numbers between now and Sept 8th, 2010, in order to monitor the effect of this takeout increase on handle.

If the handle numbers come back weak, and show that horseplayers are reacting negatively to this takeout increase, there is a high likelihood it will be rescinded. If the handle numbers come back unchanged, there is a high likelihood the takeout increase will be made permanent. It is also likely, in our opinion, that if Los Alamitos handle is strong, that other California tracks will follow suit with takeout raises of their own. We know this would have a very negative effect on you, as a horseplayer, and in return on California Racing as a whole.

You, as a Los Alamitos bettor, have a very big say in all of this. Each dollar bet at Los Alamitos is a vote for making the takeout increase permanent, and a vote towards seeing higher takeouts across California. Each dollar withheld from Los Alamitos is a vote towards rescinding this takeout increase, and discrediting the notion that racing's revenue problems can be solved by simply raising the price of an already overpriced product. You are in the enviable position to have a direct and measurable impact on the future of California racing, and to make a statement on behalf of horseplayers everywhere.

We ask you to consider these facts, and we trust that your actions and decisions will help to bring about a better and brighter future for this game.

Please pass this message on to fellow horseplayers everywhere.


Jeff Platt

President, HANA

http://www.HorseplayersAssociation.com



.

[andymays]

Outstanding letter! :ThmbUp:

I don't know anyone who plays there. Someone should post it on the TVG community website.

[proximity]

i predict that jeff p will be "proven" wrong with bo derek and others seeding the los al pools while being given huge under the table rebates by the track itself. sure it's a conspiracy, but this is a very dirty business. los al will never see a truth that they don't want to. boycotting ALL california tracks and attending your local tracks and otbs to help spread the word about this is the best each individual can do.

[chickenhead]

Someone should post it on the TVG community website.

People with accounts on multiple boards, please cross post this, this really needs to get everywhere. You can also link here:

http://blog.horseplayersassociation.org/2010/01/ca-takeout-increase.html

[andymays]

People with accounts on multiple boards, please cross post this, this really needs to get everywhere. You can also link here:

http://blog.horseplayersassociation.org/2010/01/ca-takeout-increase.html


I have a feeling the letter was a Chickenhead production and kudos to you (or whoever did it)for the letter. :ThmbUp:

[PaceAdvantage]

The following was written for me by a fellow horseplayer who is a HANA supporter. I agree 100% with every word:


An Open Letter to Los Alamitos Horseplayers

Last week HANA Pres Jeff Platt spoke at a CHRB meeting in opposition to a proposed 2% takeout increase at Los Alamitos. The CHRB Board, despite the evidence presented that an increase in takeout rates would have a negative impact on handle and revenues, decided to institute the raise. They also included a review process, where by the CHRB would from time to time review Los Alamitos handle numbers between now and Sept 8th, 2010, in order to monitor the effect of this takeout increase on handle.

If the handle numbers come back weak, and show that horseplayers are reacting negatively to this takeout increase, there is a high likelihood it will be rescinded. If the handle numbers come back unchanged, there is a high likelihood the takeout increase will be made permanent. It is also likely, in our opinion, that if Los Alamitos handle is strong, that other California tracks will follow suit with takeout raises of their own. We know this would have a very negative effect on you, as a horseplayer, and in return on California Racing as a whole.

You, as a Los Alamitos bettor, have a very big say in all of this. Each dollar bet at Los Alamitos is a vote for making the takeout increase permanent, and a vote towards seeing higher takeouts across California. Each dollar withheld from Los Alamitos is a vote towards rescinding this takeout increase, and discrediting the notion that racing's revenue problems can be solved by simply raising the price of an already overpriced product. You are in the enviable position to have a direct and measurable impact on the future of California racing, and to make a statement on behalf of horseplayers everywhere.

We ask you to consider these facts, and we trust that your actions and decisions will help to bring about a better and brighter future for this game.

Please pass this message on to fellow horseplayers everywhere.


Jeff Platt

President, HANA

http://www.HorseplayersAssociation.com



.Right to the front page...

[Bill Cullen]

If they raise the take at Los Alamitos and one feels strongly about, vote with your wallet and don't bet there.

[andymays]

If they raise the take at Los Alamitos and one feels strongly about, vote with your wallet and don't bet there.


Bill, the truth is that most of the people who go don't even know what the take is or that it went up.