Magna Bankruptcy Settled [Archive] - Horse Racing Forum - PaceAdvantage.Com

46zilzal

01-11-2010, 04:24 PM

maxwell

01-11-2010, 05:45 PM

Even if Frank got nothing he wasn't going to miss any meals.

GP was one of my favorite meets until Stronach stuck his nose in. I still don't have the heart to check out the pp's for the place.

lamboguy

01-11-2010, 06:06 PM

Even if Frank got nothing he wasn't going to miss any meals.

GP was one of my favorite meets until Stronach stuck his nose in. I still don't have the heart to check out the pp's for the place.that meet certainly went downhill since he took over. this deal with palm meadow is koo-koo. they run everything secretly there. they don't allow private clockers on the grounds. they only have one guy there and you have to trust what he puts in the paper.
the guy don't talk to no one, and he feels like he owns every maiden race in gulfstream. no wonder why the handle is way down. if they let guys like that operate on the grounds there they must have other people doing their own thing there too.

Saratoga_Mike

01-11-2010, 06:26 PM

that meet certainly went downhill since he took over. this deal with palm meadow is koo-koo. they run everything secretly there. they don't allow private clockers on the grounds. they only have one guy there and you have to trust what he puts in the paper.
the guy don't talk to no one, and he feels like he owns every maiden race in gulfstream. no wonder why the handle is way down. if they let guys like that operate on the grounds there they must have other people doing their own thing there too.

Do you have any reason not to trust what he puts in the paper?

lamboguy

01-11-2010, 07:16 PM

Do you have any reason not to trust what he puts in the paper?when money is involved, if you can't trust the messenger, how can you trust the message?

when you play the stock market there are lots of analysts that cover the stocks, in horseracing they allow private clockers on big tracks like santa anita,NYRA, monmouth, calder. palm meadows is an extension of gulfstream.

i don't know this fine genteman at palm meadows, all i know is they don't allow anyone but him there. there must be some reason for that.

alhattab

01-11-2010, 09:58 PM

Do you have any reason not to trust what he puts in the paper?

This is a joke, right?

ukbro00

01-12-2010, 12:24 AM

when money is involved, if you can't trust the messenger, how can you trust the message?

when you play the stock market there are lots of analysts that cover the stocks, in horseracing they allow private clockers on big tracks like santa anita,NYRA, monmouth, calder. palm meadows is an extension of gulfstream.

i don't know this fine genteman at palm meadows, all i know is they don't allow anyone but him there. there must be some reason for that.

So a trainer is not allowed to clock his own horse and his own data?

Even at NYRA, the clockers have the "official" times. You can't just go up to them and tell them that your horse just worked in 57 flat and tell them to publish it.

post time

01-12-2010, 08:26 AM

So a trainer is not allowed to clock his own horse and his own data?

Even at NYRA, the clockers have the "official" times. You can't just go up to them and tell them that your horse just worked in 57 flat and tell them to publish it.
If you have a twenty dollar bill the clocker might put 56 flat.

takeout

01-12-2010, 01:34 PM

Or 1:03 & change. :)

How about all of the private training tracks, they just phone them in, right? I mean how do we know if the horse actually worked at all, much less what the real time was?

lamboguy

01-12-2010, 01:51 PM

the guy that they got clocking the horse is nicknamed "brian the parasite"

does anyone have any doubts if the name tells the story of whats going on down there?

your dear buddy frank stronarch allows the fleecing of the public with this guy operating out of his palace in palm beach.

there is no need to run the race with the horses that they got in palm meadows, they just want you to hand over your money annd say thankyou for taking it.

i wouldn't bet 3 cents on of the them maiden special 3yo races in gulf stream unless i was sitting with the dead nuts over these theives.

takeout

01-12-2010, 02:08 PM

Frank ends up with GG,SA, GP and XpressBet.
[snip]
MID, which will take control of the tracks and XpressBet.com, will pay unsecured creditors $76.5 million, with the remainder of the settlement amount coming from the sale of tracks, Bloomberg reported.
[snip]

I don’t get it. So MID is going to run those tracks now and there will be no more MEC?

takeout

01-12-2010, 02:36 PM

the guy that they got clocking the horse is nicknamed "brian the parasite"So much for the honor system. :D

lamboguy

01-12-2010, 02:49 PM

so far this year gulfstream is down 27% year to year in handle. do you think everyone is sick of brian the parasite?

Ian Meyers

01-12-2010, 03:45 PM

[snip]
MID, which will take control of the tracks and XpressBet.com, will pay unsecured creditors $76.5 million, with the remainder of the settlement amount coming from the sale of tracks, Bloomberg reported.
[snip]

I don’t get it. So MID is going to run those tracks now and there will be no more MEC?

That is my understanding.

ukbro00

01-12-2010, 07:33 PM

so far this year gulfstream is down 27% year to year in handle. do you think everyone is sick of brian the parasite?

Yep, you hit the nail on the head. Handle is down 27% because the clocker at Palm Meadows doesn't like to talk to people. You are a genius. :D

startngate

01-13-2010, 10:52 AM

Good news for the industry (and hopefully horseplayers) as I understand a lot of people were holding back on initiatives until this was resolved.

Frank ends up with GG,SA, GP and XpressBet.

http://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-racing/articles/54755/settlement-reached-in-magna-bankruptcy-case?source=rssThat it is settled is good news for the industry ... how it was settled, not so much.

Frank basically gets to keep all the profitable tracks, gets rid of the one's not doing so well, and the creditors and shareholders of MEC are left holding the bag. Some sweet deal .... :faint:

castaway01

01-13-2010, 11:53 AM

That it is settled is good news for the industry ... how it was settled, not so much.

Frank basically gets to keep all the profitable tracks, gets rid of the one's not doing so well, and the creditors and shareholders of MEC are left holding the bag. Some sweet deal .... :faint:

I wouldn't exactly say those are "profitable" tracks...he put $100 million into Gulfstream and somehow found a way to not make money on slot machines. But I get what you're saying---they at least have some potential to be profitable. More likely they just have the most valuable land, so at least if he had to someday sell them not under court order, he could get a much better return.

PhantomOnTour

01-13-2010, 12:56 PM

What did Frank actually LOSE? All his excess baggage? He keeps GP, GG, SA, and XpressBet?
This bankruptcy thing is a good angle.

illinoisbred

01-13-2010, 01:04 PM

What did Frank actually LOSE? All his excess baggage? He keeps GP, GG, SA, and XpressBet?
This bankruptcy thing is a good angle.
It is a good thing. Stonach just paid almost 1.1 million for a broodmare yesterday at Keeneland. Of course, that was probably done with Adena Springs farm money.

InTheRiver68

01-13-2010, 01:26 PM

It's very surprising to me that he elected to keep GG. It's mildly surprising that he elected to keep GP, but probably did for no other reason than to keep a finger in Florida racing. Obviously, no big surprise he's keeping SA or XpressBet.

I don't recall if MID's one of the bidders in the Laurel / Pimlico auction. I wouldn't be surprised to see MID take those properties, too, since Frank has always enjoyed having the Preakness Stakes as a marquee property.

- InTheRiver68

takeout

01-13-2010, 03:00 PM

I don't recall if MID's one of the bidders in the Laurel / Pimlico auction. I wouldn't be surprised to see MID take those properties, too, since Frank has always enjoyed having the Preakness Stakes as a marquee property.I’ve been wondering about that too. I think there are still a couple of “mystery bidders” in the mix.

chazz

01-13-2010, 05:36 PM

so far this year gulfstream is down 27% year to year in h
andle. do you think everyone is sick of brian the parasite?

I think part of the take being down is because Phila Pk, Delaware Pk and Harrahs chester have not been allowed to carry GP and Laural.

I don't know what other simulcast at other race tracks don't carry these tracks.

Chazz

lamboguy

01-13-2010, 05:44 PM

I think part of the take being down is because Phila Pk, Delaware Pk and Harrahs chester have not been allowed to carry GP and Laural.

I don't know what other simulcast at other race tracks don't carry these tracks.

Chazzit very easily could be a large part of it, but SANTA ANITA just reported a 17% drop in handle for the same period of time. SANTA ANITA has over 100 private and public clockers. PALM MEADOWS only has 1. this to me expains the differntial in handle quite clearly. i know of 20 people that have given up playing GULFSTREAM period, and are now focusing in on TAMPA. as luck would have it, the TAMPA handle has taken up some of the slack.

in my opinion, brian the parasite is a one man wrecking ball of one of the greatest meets that man has ever known.

wonatthewire1

01-13-2010, 06:14 PM

it very easily could be a large part of it, but SANTA ANITA just reported a 17% drop in handle for the same period of time. SANTA ANITA has over 100 private and public clockers. PALM MEADOWS only has 1. this to me expains the differntial in handle quite clearly. i know of 20 people that have given up playing GULFSTREAM period, and are now focusing in on TAMPA. as luck would have it, the TAMPA handle has taken up some of the slack.

in my opinion, brian the parasite is a one man wrecking ball of one of the greatest meets that man has ever known.

SA, LRL, GG, FG are not being taken by the mid-atlantic tracks (see HANA posting regarding the signal $ fight) - they are tracknet consortium (OP, CD, ARL are in there too)

Includes PA, NJ, DE, MA, NH, and probably a few more states - bite the hand that feeds....etc...

lamboguy

01-13-2010, 06:33 PM

SA, LRL, GG, FG are not being taken by the mid-atlantic tracks (see HANA posting regarding the signal $ fight) - they are tracknet consortium (OP, CD, ARL are in there too)

Includes PA, NJ, DE, MA, NH, and probably a few more states - bite the hand that feeds....etc...i understand that, i am comparing it the right way though. both santa anita and gulfstream are both magna tracks.santa anita with synthetic surface is only down 17%. gulfstream with regular surface and brian the parasite is down 27%

Saratoga_Mike

01-13-2010, 07:05 PM

i understand that, i am comparing it the right way though. both santa anita and gulfstream are both magna tracks.santa anita with synthetic surface is only down 17%. gulfstream with regular surface and brian the parasite is down 27%

Lambo, I always enjoy your posts, but implying that a clocker has played a large roll in the 27% decline in handle at GP meet-to-date is a stretch, imo.

lamboguy

01-13-2010, 07:14 PM

Lambo, I always enjoy your posts, but implying that a clocker has played a large roll in the 27% decline in handle at GP meet-to-date is a stretch, imo.those maiden races are part of pick 3's.pick 4's and pick 6's. how do you expect anyone to play those races if you can't trust what's in the paper. these guys decided they have a nice thing going, they are betting the good horses out of that place and i am on worse than a guess. i am not the only person that knows what is going over there. this one clocker has it all wrapped up. how can a place operate with only one clocker, and how many people know that there is only one clocker. its not happening in NYRA, KENTUCKT and CALI. all big tracks, why can't they have more than one guy there? the reason is because its one big country club there.

wonatthewire1

01-13-2010, 07:25 PM

By law in Louisiana, FG has to announce it's handle at the end of the year - even though the track races into the new year.

Handle was down +30% - they are blaming the economy instead of looking in the mirror and locking out a lot of players (story was referenced on DRF and here)

Saratoga_Mike

01-13-2010, 07:27 PM

those maiden races are part of pick 3's.pick 4's and pick 6's. how do you expect anyone to play those races if you can't trust what's in the paper. these guys decided they have a nice thing going, they are betting the good horses out of that place and i am on worse than a guess. i am not the only person that knows what is going over there. this one clocker has it all wrapped up. how can a place operate with only one clocker, and how many people know that there is only one clocker. its not happening in NYRA, KENTUCKT and CALI. all big tracks, why can't they have more than one guy there? the reason is because its one big country club there.

This is why maiden races should be placed at the beginning of Pick Four and Six sequences - something Steve Crist has long advocated. That way, when the "in-the-know"* money bets into the wins pools, you know to include the hot-money horse in your horizontals.

Was there only one clocker permitted Palm Meadows last yr?

*This is off-topic, but when Crist was in mgt at NYRA, he had the back office people pull up the win rate of the betting machines located on the backstretch at Saratoga. Turns out they were losing at a higher rate than the public as a whole!

Saratoga_Mike

01-13-2010, 07:32 PM

So a trainer is not allowed to clock his own horse and his own data?
Even at NYRA, the clockers have the "official" times. You can't just go up to them and tell them that your horse just worked in 57 flat and tell them to publish it.

Of course a trainer can clock their own horse. Hell if you get into the track's frontside, you can clock horses yourself - you just won't know what horses you're clocking!

lamboguy

01-13-2010, 07:35 PM

This is why maiden races should be placed at the beginning of Pick Four and Six sequences - something Steve Crist has long advocated. That way, when the "in-the-know"* money bets into the wins pools, you know to include the hot-money horse in your horizontals.

Was there only one clocker permitted Palm Meadows last yr?

*This is off-topic, but when Crist was in mgt at NYRA, he had the back office people pull up the win rate of the betting machines located on the backstretch at Saratoga. Turns out they were losing at a higher rate than the public as a whole!i knew a guy that was sneaking around the place and he worked there the whole month of january. he wound up hitting a big pick 6 so this year he went down there and they chased him out of the place. it would be good for horseracing to have some credibilty. this is terrible. alot of people here think i am a cry baby about this. i am telling you the truth, i won't play those races when i can't beleive whats in writing. most the guys here don't care because they are all programed with computer models. i am not. before the advent of palm meadows i always playe gulfstream
this is strickly prepostorous and everyone should take notice as to what is going on down there.

Saratoga_Mike

01-13-2010, 07:37 PM

i knew a guy that was sneaking around the place and he worked there the whole month of january. he wound up hitting a big pick 6 so this year he went down there and they chased him out of the place. it would be good for horseracing to have some credibilty. this is terrible. alot of people here think i am a cry baby about this. i am telling you the truth, i won't play those races when i can't beleive whats in writing. most the guys here don't care because they are all programed with computer models. i am not. before the advent of palm meadows i always playe gulfstream
this is strickly prepostorous and everyone should take notice as to what is going on down there.

I guess I'm surprised by your take on things. I may be wrong, but I believe you have a lot of racetrack experience. Personally I'm always skeptical about works.

lamboguy

01-13-2010, 08:03 PM

I guess I'm surprised by your take on things. I may be wrong, but I believe you have a lot of racetrack experience. Personally I'm always skeptical about works.horse that work and train good tend to run good, the ones that don't run bad. some clockers are better than others though like everything else in life. some guys pick up things that others don't see. if you remember last year i posted on this board how bad dunkirk and friesen fire were prior to the kentucky derby. i got that from a good clocker. with that great info i still didn't come up with mine the bird, but he was not so far fetched. he paid alot less than anyone would have expected.

Saratoga_Mike

01-13-2010, 08:10 PM

horse that work and train good tend to run good, the ones that don't run bad. some clockers are better than others though like everything else in life. some guys pick up things that others don't see. if you remember last year i posted on this board how bad dunkirk and friesen fire were prior to the kentucky derby. i got that from a good clocker. with that great info i still didn't come up with mine the bird, but he was not so far fetched. he paid alot less than anyone would have expected.

I absolutely remember your comments on FF prior to the Derby.

illinoisbred

01-14-2010, 08:29 AM

Mentioning Palm Meadows, does anyone know anything other than the innuendoes/rumors regarding the veterinary "magic" thats performed there?

lamboguy

01-14-2010, 09:34 AM

Mentioning Palm Meadows, does anyone know anything other than the innuendoes/rumors regarding the veterinary "magic" thats performed there?Palm is a private country club. i have never had the opportunity of visiting the place, but from what i am told it is a great place to train young horses. they do everything right with the track. that is great, my complaint is that it is a private country club. the people that train there pay rent for their stalls. they get some kind of a rebate when they run a horse in gulfstream.

Jackal

01-14-2010, 10:25 AM

According to a report by Bloomberg News, the settlement includes transfer of MEC assets, including three racetracks, to MI Developments, which is controlled by MEC chairman Frank Stronach. Bloomberg reported that unsecured creditors, who are owed as much as $260 million, would receive $96.5 million under the plan announced Jan. 11 in U.S. Bankruptcy Court in Wilmington, Del.

Sounds like a shell game to me.

illinoisbred

01-14-2010, 10:37 AM

illinoisbred

01-14-2010, 10:43 AM

andymays

01-14-2010, 10:45 AM

They interview Stronach in page five of the attachment.

ukbro00

01-14-2010, 12:36 PM

Palm is a private country club. i have never had the opportunity of visiting the place, but from what i am told it is a great place to train young horses. they do everything right with the track. that is great, my complaint is that it is a private country club. the people that train there pay rent for their stalls. they get some kind of a rebate when they run a horse in gulfstream.

SO you sit here and say that handle is down, because of their clocker, which is idiotic anyway, but yet, you haven't even been there?

Palm Meadows is a beautiful facility. The reason why trainers like to stable their horses there is because its a much newer facility, the dorms and apartments on site for their help are very nice, and the track doesn't get as worn, since less horses work out there and there is no racing in the afternoons. Another benefit is that there is a free shuttle to Gulfstream for the horse when he is entered and the Palm Meadows track surface is identical to that of GP. There is NO REBATES given to owners or trainers that stable at Palm Meadows and run at Gulfstream.

As for the claims about shady vet. practices, you will find that at any track in America. It has nothing to do with Palm Meadows. The security there is just like the security at any other track. Trainers who cheat will cheat, and that is why drug testing is now the norm. You can't get away with the same things that you used to.

lamboguy

01-14-2010, 12:47 PM

SO you sit here and say that handle is down, because of their clocker, which is idiotic anyway, but yet, you haven't even been there?

Palm Meadows is a beautiful facility. The reason why trainers like to stable their horses there is because its a much newer facility, the dorms and apartments on site for their help are very nice, and the track doesn't get as worn, since less horses work out there and there is no racing in the afternoons. Another benefit is that there is a free shuttle to Gulfstream for the horse when he is entered and the Palm Meadows track surface is identical to that of GP. There is NO REBATES given to owners or trainers that stable at Palm Meadows and run at Gulfstream.

As for the claims about shady vet. practices, you will find that at any track in America. It has nothing to do with Palm Meadows. The security there is just like the security at any other track. Trainers who cheat will cheat, and that is why drug testing is now the norm. You can't get away with the same things that you used to.the one time i went to the place i showed up with my owners license, they are gated there, i stop off at the gate with my florida owners license, the guard asked me who my trainer was, i told him, he said he is not in palm meadow's therefore i am not allowed on the grounds. you sir obviously know more than i since you are either and owner or a trainer that has the privilage of having horses stabled there. you see i am just a peasant so i lack that fine opportunity of being free to walk the grounds there. i am sure that what you are saying is true because i really don't know and am going aobut this second hand. as far as the handle being down 27% because of the clocker, i am totally surprised its not down more because of him

lamboguy

01-14-2010, 01:28 PM

SO you sit here and say that handle is down, because of their clocker, which is idiotic anyway, but yet, you haven't even been there?

Palm Meadows is a beautiful facility. The reason why trainers like to stable their horses there is because its a much newer facility, the dorms and apartments on site for their help are very nice, and the track doesn't get as worn, since less horses work out there and there is no racing in the afternoons. Another benefit is that there is a free shuttle to Gulfstream for the horse when he is entered and the Palm Meadows track surface is identical to that of GP. There is NO REBATES given to owners or trainers that stable at Palm Meadows and run at Gulfstream.

As for the claims about shady vet. practices, you will find that at any track in America. It has nothing to do with Palm Meadows. The security there is just like the security at any other track. Trainers who cheat will cheat, and that is why drug testing is now the norm. You can't get away with the same things that you used to.maybe i said this wrong about the rebate, but as far as i know they charge you $16 a day to stable at palm meadow's and if you start your horse once a month you get the month for free. is that the way it works for you and your horses?

PhantomOnTour

01-15-2010, 10:19 AM

Got an email from a Gary Van den Broek of Palm Meadows and he says they have 3 clockers on the grounds for training.

takeout

01-15-2010, 11:13 AM

ukbro00

01-15-2010, 09:43 PM

It's really sickening when Stronach can laugh with competing bidder for a broodmare prospect(which Stronach won out for 1.1 million) a day after many vendors/suppliers were screwed. This man is morally bankrupt!

MEC and Adena Springs are two different operations. One failed (MEC), but that doesn't mean that Adena Springs must suffer for it. It was a publically owned company that was not always run by Stronach. Although he started and ended as CEO, he was not alone in the demise of the corporation. The U.S. Government has very favorable bankruptcy laws and he would have been stupid not to use them in the situation that the company was in.

lamboguy

01-23-2010, 04:37 PM

Got an email from a Gary Van den Broek of Palm Meadows and he says they have 3 clockers on the grounds for training.where did he find the other 2 guys to come in and clock? they weren't there this morning!

i got a feeling these guys aren't cashing so many tickets this year either, looks like frank calabreese and wesley ward are sending these guys back to school!

congradulations to all the gulfstream trainers that are winning this year, keep up the great work.

Saratoga_Mike

01-23-2010, 04:43 PM

MEC and Adena Springs are two different operations. One failed (MEC), but that doesn't mean that Adena Springs must suffer for it. It was a publically owned company that was not always run by Stronach. Although he started and ended as CEO, he was not alone in the demise of the corporation. The U.S. Government has very favorable bankruptcy laws and he would have been stupid not to use them in the situation that the company was in.

I believe Stronach was always the chairman of MECA, and he was always the driving force behind the strategic vision (overpay for assets, pray for slots and/or build a complete entertainment experience and hope they come). I agree with you about Adena and utilizing the bankruptcy code.

lamboguy

01-23-2010, 05:02 PM

now that the midatlantic got their simulcasting back, we can now tell the real " brian the parasite" effect on gulfstream handle.

lamboguy

01-10-2012, 04:46 PM

that meet certainly went downhill since he took over. this deal with palm meadow is koo-koo. they run everything secretly there. they don't allow private clockers on the grounds. they only have one guy there and you have to trust what he puts in the paper.
the guy don't talk to no one, and he feels like he owns every maiden race in gulfstream. no wonder why the handle is way down. if they let guys like that operate on the grounds there they must have other people doing their own thing there too.i am nuts, but i couldn't do anything about this travesty, but i am happy that someone else could.

it all goes to show you that some messengers are better than others, i will gracefully go to the back of the bus where i certainly belong.