No He Didn't. Harry Reid Said What?

[andymays]

Reid apologizes for 'no Negro dialect' comment

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100109/ap_on_el_se/us_obama_reid

Excerpt:

Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid of Nevada described in private then-Sen. Barack Obama as "light skinned" and "with no Negro dialect, unless he wanted to have one." Obama is the nation's first African-American president.


"I deeply regret using such a poor choice of words. I sincerely apologize for offending any and all Americans, especially African-Americans for my improper comments," Reid said in a statement released after the excerpts were first reported on the Web site of The Atlantic

[johnhannibalsmith]

Stupid tea-bagging redneck.

[ElKabong]

How odd. In 2008 I called 0bama an assclown politician who has no idea how to run a country, has no experience nor ability to lead & would only make this country far worse if he were elected. The color of his skin didn't matter to me.

Difference between my comments and Reid's is, I have no need to apologize.

[ElKabong]

I guess that if Nevada re elects him, we can call Nevada a racist, redneck state that's run by the KKK.

Boy, this race card thing is a fun game. Oh, if we only had a democrat senator from Appalachia that was in the KKK....Wouldn't that be a real shitload of fun?

[ArlJim78]

I know i've said this hundreds of times it seems, but can you imagine the media frenzy that would take place if those same words had been attributed to a major conservative Republican? Oh my god, it would be nonstop, calls for censure, to step down, there would be rioting in the streets, Al and Jesse's phones would be ringing off the hook, and talk show hosts like Olberman and Matthews would have material for weeks.

lets all standby and watch for the fallout on this one.:rolleyes: <crickets>

[bigmack]

talk show hosts like Olberman and Matthews would have material for weeks
They're way too busy bustin' the lid off the census story. Turns out those racist census people put 'Negro' on the new form because older people didn't know what box to check because they refer to themselves as 'Negro's'

Maddow is flummoxed out of her boxers that the Feds are using a term that people refer to themselves by. How dare they?

[ArlJim78]

maybe Obama will give another speech on race and this time he'll name Reid as the "typical white person" rather than his grandmother.

[ElKabong]

I would like to thank the recently outed closet racist Harry Reid for giving me a new sig.

[Snag]

Maybe, just maybe, Reid has a son we didn't know about named David Duke. Sorry Mr. Reid. No offense!

[rastajenk]

Let's have a beer! :jump:

[bigmack]

Reid is a first generation member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. Reid and his wife, who was born to Jewish parents, converted to Mormonism while Reid was a college student. :lol:

He stated in an interview with Brigham Young University's Daily Universe that "I think it is much easier to be a good member of the Church and a Democrat than a good member of the Church and a Republican."

8aWjIpkxcak

Has anyone ever heard Larry O'Donnell say the same of Dirty Harry?

[formula_2002]

"Barack Obama could win the presidency because he is "light skinned" and "with no Negro dialect, unless he wanted to have one." "

I'd say those are some of the factors that have to be taken into account today by any good handicapper.
I'm not certain how to weight them, but certainly they need to be considered.

Perhaps, if we are lucky, in another 40 to 60 years, they will be meaningless.
We need a few more generation of us to die off. (something refered to in a line by Spencer Tracy in the 1967 (42 years ago) movie, "Guess Who's Coming To Dinner"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guess_Who%27s_Coming_to_Dinner

[ElKabong]

[QUOTE=formula_2002PS, I not only voted for Obama, I'll also say, that as an exceptional human being, he is doing an excellent job. Reed also seems to be getting the job done.[/QUOTE]


Yep, doing a dandy job with our unemployment problems in this country. Juuuust dandy.

[bigmack]

I not only voted for Obama, I'll also say, that as an exceptional human being, he is doing an excellent job. Reed also seems to be getting the job done.

Apparently he was in no mood to back this up. Poof, it's gone.

[formula_2002]

Yep, doing a dandy job with our unemployment problems in this country. Juuuust dandy.
oh yes,he really screwed up the Bush legacy.
:rolleyes: :rolleyes:

[ElKabong]

oh yes,he really screwed up the Bush legacy.
:rolleyes: :rolleyes:

I'll give your boy Barry one thing...He about doubled the unemployment rate by year's end. Someone should have told him the goal was to lower the rate...Not raise it.

You're doing a fine job, 0bie.

[bigmack]

oh yes,he really screwed up the Bush legacy.
:rolleyes: :rolleyes:
Ding - We got another one.

http://i165.photobucket.com/albums/u70/macktime/1_10_10_12_37_40.png



Scorecard courtesy elkabong & the musical stylings of Mr. Nick Apollo Forte
http://www.thelin.net/laurent/cinema/films/tt0087003/19667.jpg

[formula_2002]

Apparently he was in no mood to back this up. Poof, it's gone.
I deleted it because it was off topic.
I also didnt want to distract from the theme. See how we fail?

[ElKabong]

Ding - We got another one.

http://i165.photobucket.com/albums/u70/macktime/1_10_10_12_37_40.png



Scorecard courtesy elkabong & the musical stylings of Mr. Nick Apollo Forte
http://www.thelin.net/laurent/cinema/films/tt0087003/19667.jpg

Just occurred to me - every time they come up with that lame line, that jpeg gets an auto attachment. At some point in time they'll get almost as sick seing it, as the rest of us are hearing 0bama's excuse for his inability to keep his promises.

DEAR DEMS....WE WANT A LEADER, not an excuse machine.

[formula_2002]

Ding - We got another one.

http://i165.photobucket.com/albums/u70/macktime/1_10_10_12_37_40.png



Scorecard courtesy elkabong & the musical stylings of Mr. Nick Apollo Forte
http://www.thelin.net/laurent/cinema/films/tt0087003/19667.jpg
What's the pro Bush score card now look like... George use to kepp it this was...

"Us'ins 1000, them utter guys "

[bigmack]

What's the pro Bush score card now look like... George use to kepp it this was...

"Us'ins 1000, them utter guys "
Hang on, I gotta go dust off my decoder ring. :rolleyes:

[ElKabong]

What did George Bush have to do with this thread? This thread is reserved for Harry Reid's racist remarks.

Do you have any defense for his racism, formula2002? Are you proud of this racist for his comments about Barry 0bama? Detail it.

[ArlJim78]

Scorecard courtesy elkabong & the musical stylings of Mr. Nick Apollo Forte
http://www.thelin.net/laurent/cinema/films/tt0087003/19667.jpg
good choice, I always feel Agita whenever I hear the now all too familar "It's Bushs fault" refrain.

[Tom]

What's the pro Bush score card now look like... George use to kepp it this was...

"Us'ins 1000, them utter guys "

Try this one....:rolleyes:


Formula_2002

English Martian
..................1

[formula_2002]

I deleted it because it was off topic.
I also didnt want to distract from the theme. See how we fail?
see what I ment?

Ciao kids..

[PaceAdvantage]

see what I ment?

Ciao kids..It's probably best you leave this thread instead of sickening me further with your God-awful attempts at justifying Harry Reid's disgusting racist remarks about our President.

I'd say those are some of the factors that have to be taken into account today by any good handicapper.
I'm not certain how to weight them, but certainly they need to be considered.

Perhaps, if we are lucky, in another 40 to 60 years, they will be meaningless.

[formula_2002]

It's probably best you leave this thread instead of sickening me further with your God-awful attempts at justifying Harry Reid's disgusting racist remarks about our President.

I support no racist comments and make none.
I do my best, in all deeds to help whoever I can.
Having voted for the first black president of the US and having served with, played with , worked with and socialize with men and women of races other than mine, I say to you, you make wrong to accuse me of supporting any racist comments.

As far as Reed’s comments go consider this, a track handicapper or bookmaker makes a line based on not who he thinks will win but who the public thinks will win.
From what I read in Reed's comment, that’s exactly how I read it.
He didn't make a racist comment, rather he was saying our country has yet to get past these issues. Do you think him wrong about that?
If there is more to his statement, I’m unaware of it.

Perhaps if you know more of what he said, you could post it here.

[exactaplayer]

George Will (Well known CONSERVATIVE writer)
"WILL: I don't think there's a scintilla of racism in what Harry Reid said. At long last, Harry Reid has said something that no one can disagree with, and he gets in trouble for it."

[PaceAdvantage]

I support no racist comments and make none.
I do my best, in all deeds to help whoever I can.
Having voted for the first black president of the US and having served with, played with , worked with and socialize with men and women of races other than mine, I say to you, you make wrong to accuse me of supporting any racist comments.

As far as Reed’s comments go consider this, a track handicapper or bookmaker makes a line based on not who he thinks will win but who the public thinks will win.
From what I read in Reed's comment, that’s exactly how I read it.
He didn't make a racist comment, rather he was saying our country has yet to get past these issues. Do you think him wrong about that?
If there is more to his statement, I’m unaware of it.

Perhaps if you know more of what he said, you could post it here.I didn't say you support racist comments and I didn't say you made any racist comments. Why so defensive?

What I said was you are JUSTIFYING Harry Reid's quite OBVIOUSLY RACIST comments regarding then candidate Barack Obama.

I can only imagine the condemnation that would be dripping from your keyboard had someone with an (R) next to their name been quoted in a book uttering the same exact comments.

Heaven help us if Sarah Palin had said those same exact words...

My bet would be you wouldn't have chalked it up to "handicapping the campaign" or "making a line on who will win" or whatever other nonsensical justifications you put out there in a futile attempt to soften up the harsh racial tones emanating from the lips of one Mr. Harry Reid.

What you and others would have done would be to banish her to the ends of the Earth, tarred and feathered FOREVER as a RACIST of the FIRST MAGNITUDE.

[ElKabong]

Uh, no. His quote is in my sig. Read it.

Who says "negro dialect"? Go up to a black individual and speak these words Reid was quoted. :lol:

Face it. You support a man who's on record in the past 24 hrs as being a racist.

Of course the 2nd half of his comment leads you to believe that he thinks 0bvama is a fraud. That's the only part of his coment I agree with.

[ElKabong]

.

[formula_2002]

I didn't say you support racist comments and I didn't say you made any racist comments. Why so defensive?

What I said was you are JUSTIFYING Harry Reid's quite OBVIOUSLY RACIST comments regarding then candidate Barack Obama.

I can only imagine the condemnation that would be dripping from your keyboard had someone with an (R) next to their name been quoted in a book uttering the same exact comments.

Heaven help us if Sarah Palin had said those same exact words...

My bet would be you wouldn't have chalked it up to "handicapping the campaign" or "making a line on who will win" or whatever other nonsensical justifications you put out there in a futile attempt to soften up the harsh racial tones emanating from the lips of one Mr. Harry Reid.

What you and others would have done would be to banish her to the ends of the Earth, tarred and feathered FOREVER as a RACIST of the FIRST MAGNITUDE.

Support<> justify? that's cutting it close. I dont think there is a point I would support if I could not justify it nor could I justify a point if I did not support it.

On her own, I dont think (about 1000-1), Palin is capable of the analysis. :)
No dont go telling me I'm a former governor, white woman, racist.

[Tom]

George Will (Well known CONSERVATIVE writer)
"WILL: I don't think there's a scintilla of racism in what Harry Reid said. At long last, Harry Reid has said something that no one can disagree with, and he gets in trouble for it."


You're using a conservative as a source? :lol:

I hasten to point out that the Magic Negro caused a lot of uproar on the left, even though it was started by a lefty but accredited to Rush. See, this is why racism is generally such a joke. I guarrantee if Rush had said this, you guys would be singing a different song. :lol:

[formula_2002]

Uh, no. His quote is in my sig. Read it.

Who says "negro dialect"? Go up to a black individual and speak these words Reid was quoted. :lol:

Face it. You support a man who's on record in the past 24 hrs as being a racist.

Of course the 2nd half of his comment leads you to believe that he thinks 0bvama is a fraud. That's the only part of his coment I agree with.

So the huff is about the term "Negro"?
Per Wikipedia
"The term is now considered archaic and is not commonly used, and is widely considered a racist slur. The term is still used in some contexts for historical reasons such as in the name of the United Negro College Fund.[3][4] or the Negro league in sports. "Negro" means "black" in Spanish, Portuguese, and ancient Italian[5]; all of these derive from the Latin niger (i.e., "black").

There was a time when guys as old as Reed and myself could use the word without slurring anyone.
As a Brooklyn teenage baseball player in the early 50's I wore #42.
I always though Jackie the first Negro to play major league basball.
But now ofcourse he is called the first African American....
I certainly dont ever recall refering to him then as an African American.

Back then I dont think It was kind to call a negro a Black man.

When I use to run into him in the Chockfull of Nuts on Lexinton Ave in Manhattan, I simply called him Mr. Robinison.

So I guess Reed should offer an apology to anyone offended by the word.

[ElKabong]

Sorry, the "I used to call em negros" act won't work, pal. Walk up to a black gentleman on the street and say "Negro" and see how it goes over.

Harry Reid is a racist. Point blank, racist.

[ElKabong]

So the huff is about the term "Negro"?

There was a time when guys as old as Reed and myself could use the word without slurring anyone.



Ya, that was the same era when Jackie Robinson and every black man and woman had to ride in the back of buses....Those days are gone. Well, apparently for most of us they are. For you and Harry Reid, not so much. The word Negro went out in the 60s, about the same time the stupid rule about them riding in the back of the bus elapsed.

[johnhannibalsmith]

Just to stay on this point - if you are a black/african-american man or woman, which do you prefer - black or african-american?

And to the non-african-american or non-black participants - do you pause to decide whether to call someone black or african-american depending upon the context or do you simply default to one or the other in all cases?

I see a black/african-american cop call a dude a black guy and then I hear some geeky white/caucasion-english-dutch-american guy on TV call the same fellow african-american and I wonder what the human in question thinks or if he cares at all.

I hate to offend anyone unnecessarily, but I get the sense that the people that I grew up calling black find it a little pretentious when I come with that african-american stuff, assuming that I would only say such a thing in their presence.

[ElKabong]

My key supplier at work is black. He refers to himself as black. I have two closeby co workers that refer to themselves as black as do most I work with. There's one lady at work that refers to herself as African American.

Think about it, you never intro someone as "black" or "African American". Just by name. I just let someone else's preference come from their own lips before using it myself.

[ElKabong]

Speaking of that supplier....He used to play D2 football, we argue over football all the time. My coworker mentioned some bounty hunter named Dog (who also ignorantly spewed racial slurs). My supplier said "Hey, Dog never brought in a brother". L'dMAO.

[johnhannibalsmith]

But it is a descriptor used to identify people in the third person:

"Yeah, you know that guy Jim, he's the (racial reference of your choice) dude that we went to the game with last year"...

Or has it become a sign of being racist if you decipher one person from another by their race when names/ages/occupation/social security number aren't enough?

[ElKabong]

Most folks I know use the term black.

What's more uncomfortable for me is hispanic/ latino. I use the term hispanic, but more and more here people use the term latino. Hispanics as a whole seem far less interested in this stuff than the rest of us.

But if you use the term Negro, you'll get crossways looks from blacks AND whites.

[johnhannibalsmith]

The thing that I have noticed about Latino/Hispanic in my years at racetracks on both coasts is that individually, most want to be identified by their actual origins. Mexicans like 'Mexican' and Puerto Ricans like 'Puerto Rican' and Panamanians like 'Panamanian' and don't dare accidentally call one the other - but call a Mexican a Latino and he usually laughs and tells you that he's a Mexican and expects that to be the last time that you make that mistake.

Almost everyone at the local track of hispanic descent is Mexican and I naively and presumptuously made the mistake of referring to a Puerto Rican girl in the kitchen as Mexican and she about jumped over the counter at me...

[dartman51]

Almost everyone at the local track of hispanic descent is Mexican and I naively and presumptuously made the mistake of referring to a Puerto Rican girl in the kitchen as Mexican and she about jumped over the counter at me...

And I expect that to be the last time that you make that mistake. :lol:

[bigmack]

Republicans had better stay in their place if they want a welcome mat

http://i165.photobucket.com/albums/u70/macktime/mvbm.jpg

[Show Me the Wire]

I can't remember, wasn't Sen. Reid the inspiration for the lyrics to Magic Negro.

[Tom]

Some LA Time writer coined the term.

I love this whole thing - watching the lying SOBS on the left try to act holier than thou when they did the exact same thing to Trent Lott! This only re-enforces my pledge to NEVER trust a dem - never compromise with a lib, Never, ever, be on the same team as a lib.:lol:

What a bunch of two-face little turds these people are.

[ElKabong]

Harry Reid said he has nothing further to say on the subject. Smart. Racists usually dig deeper holes whenever they open their mouths.

This is far, far, far from over. TV ads in NV will have that quote ran enough for him to have to defend himself the last 60 days of that campaign....delicious.

[Boris]

What Reid meant was that Obama didn't talk like those other blacks, unless he wants to. None of that Ebonic stuff. That's what his statement means. What else could a "Negro dialect" possibly mean? He's condecending toward blacks. Seems pretty clear.

[NJ Stinks]

I love this whole thing - watching the lying SOBS on the left try to act holier than thou when they did the exact same thing to Trent Lott! This only re-enforces my pledge to NEVER trust a dem - never compromise with a lib, Never, ever, be on the same team as a lib.:lol:

What a bunch of two-face little turds these people are.

Read this slowly and it might sink in. :rolleyes:

Lott was praising the 1948 campaign of then segregationist Strom Thurmond.
Reid's politically incorrect words were actually supporting the bid by Barrack Obama to become the first black president.

[bigmack]

Lott was praising the 1948 campaign of then segregationist Strom Thurmond.
Reid's politically incorrect words were actually supporting the bid by Barrack Obama to become the first black president.
You're clearly spending time in the boxers of Maddow.

My initial thought is, ewww & yuck.

[johnhannibalsmith]

...
Lott was praising the 1948 campaign of then segregationist Strom Thurmond.
Reid's politically incorrect words were actually supporting the bid by Barrack Obama to become the first black president.

I can't disagree that comparing the two remarks is a bit of an orange and apple sort of deal, but come on...

The man is trying to sell the candidacy of a black man on the merits of his light skin tone and the fact that he doesn't talk like a "black man". I'm not sure that I find a whole lot of error in his assessment that those traits did make Obama more electable, but to state that he was "supporting the bid by Barack Obama..." and then diminish the egregiousness of his words as being "politically incorrect" with the knowledge that being "politically correct" has become a stigma - well, it brings delight to my heart - for I will remember it when people that do and say far less are accused of being racist by the same constituency that has rushed to Mr. Reid's defense.

[NJ Stinks]

You're clearly spending time in the boxers of Maddow.

My initial thought is, ewww & yuck.

I didn't watch Maddow. I read it in today's newspaper - the Philadelphia Daily News. Correct me if I'm wrong but I don't think Tom is a fan of newspapers. Too much damn information I guess.

[chickenhead]

Mexicans like 'Mexican' and Puerto Ricans like 'Puerto Rican' and Panamanians like 'Panamanian' and don't dare accidentally call one the other - but call a Mexican a Latino and he usually laughs and tells you that he's a Mexican and expects that to be the last time that you make that mistake.

In my experience this is correct. No different than Italian or Polish or whatever. But I guess I do use Latino if I don't know, as kind of a question, and they'll let you know where they're from. Black seems to be the most commonly used and accepted for American black people, never heard anyone say or expect African American.

I understand I guess why many might not like it, as it's kind of robotic sounding, but I always thought Negroid sounded cool.

[NJ Stinks]

I can't disagree that comparing the two remarks is a bit of an orange and apple sort of deal, but come on...

The man is trying to sell the candidacy of a black man on the merits of his light skin tone and the fact that he doesn't talk like a "black man". I'm not sure that I find a whole lot of error in his assessment that those traits did make Obama more electable, but to state that he was "supporting the bid by Barack Obama..." and then diminish the egregiousness of his words as being "politically incorrect" with the knowledge that being "politically correct" has become a stigma - well, it brings delight to my heart - for I will remember it when people that do and say far less are accused of being racist by the same constituency that has rushed to Mr. Reid's defense.

I like Harry Reid more all the time. He really impressed me with the way he has handled the healthcare issue in the Senate. Took a lot of guts. Backing Obama over Clinton took a lot of guts too.

As for the p/c stuff, I hate it too. I don't think Trent Lott should have been pressured to step down either.

[johnhannibalsmith]

I like Harry Reid more all the time. He really impressed me with the way he has handled the healthcare issue in the Senate. Took a lot of guts. Backing Obama over Clinton took a lot of guts too.

As for the p/c stuff, I hate it too. I don't think Trent Lott should have been pressured to step down either.

Friday comes after Saturday and go up enough and you surely land down.

[bigmack]

In my experience this is correct. No different than Italian or Polish or whatever. But I guess I do use Latino if I don't know, as kind of a question, and they'll let you know where they're from. Black seems to be the most commonly used and accepted for American black people, never heard anyone say or expect African American.
Foo-foo Del Mar & La Jolla types I know refer to Mexicans as Spanish. :lol:

You're in CA. Chances are outstanding you'll pin the tail on the donkey by saying Mexican.

As I swim with no shortage of brothers, Black is the accepted nomenclature, unless you're in a pool hall.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ty3SArUjgvQ&feature=player_embedded

[newtothegame]

Rod Blagojevich apologizes for remark about Barack Obama

In Esquire magazine interview, ex-governor said he is 'blacker' than president


Former Gov. Rod Blagojevich (http://www.chicagotribune.com/topic/politics/government/rod-blagojevich-PEPLT007479.topic) has long thought his best chance of beating the sweeping federal charges against him is to take his case directly to the public, whether it's been through dozens of media interviews, writing a book or just glad-handing the man on the street.

But things haven't always gone swimmingly. On Monday, Blagojevich moved swiftly to apologize for saying in an Esquire magazine interview that he is "blacker than Barack Obama (http://www.chicagotribune.com/topic/politics/government/barack-obama-PEPLT007408.topic)."

Even before many had heard about the interview, Blagojevich was standing outside his Northwest Side home pointing out that it was a dumb thing to say.


http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/chi-blago-esquire-commentsjan12,0,7187448.story

Bolding was done by me.....
more at the link

[newtothegame]

MLK's Niece: What Reid Was Really Saying is 'Now We Have a White House Negro'
Tuesday, January 12, 2010
told ("][/url]By Fred Lucas, Staff Writer

CNSNews.com) – The niece of the Rev. Martin Luther King Jr. has denounced racially charged comments Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid (D-Nev.) made about Barack Obama during the 2008 presidential campaign.

The new book “Game Change” (Harper) about the 2008 presidential race states that Reid “believed that the country was ready to embrace a black presidential candidate, especially one such as Obama – a ‘light-skinned’ African American ‘with no Negro dialect, unless he wanted to have one,’ as he later put it privately.”

Democratic leaders have defended Reid, as have black activists such as Rev. Al Sharpton, but Dr. Alveda King, the niece of Rev. Martin Luther King Jr., views the controversy differently.

“I don’t care who said it,” she [url="http://www.cybercastnewsservice.org/cns/webuploads/A%20King%20interview-edited.mp3) CNSNews.com. “It doesn’t matter to me. It’s still wrong. It’s outrageous to say that we are going to let a man have a position because he is light-skinned and he uses a Negro dialect when it is convenient.

“I think that’s terrible,” she said. “What he’s really saying is, ‘Now we have a White House Negro.’
http://www.cnsnews.com/news/article/59667

bolding by myself....

[formula_2002]

“I don’t care who said it,” she told CNSNews.com. “It doesn’t matter to me. It’s still wrong. It’s outrageous to say that we are going to let a man have a position because he is light-skinned and he uses a Negro dialect when it is convenient.

To deny that the tone of his skin and the manner of his speech was not part of the equation is simply to deny the king has no clothes.

Our county is not to the point where it can completely put away the sins of the past.
It tries and eventually, after another generation or two, it will succeed or fall, but problems don’t get solved by ignoring them.

I voted for Obama, because I thought him intelligent and strong enough to bring us out of the terrible place Bush put us in the world.

I didn’t vote for him because he was an African American, but as one his back ground as an African American, growing up and succeeding in all the venues as he did, gave him a deep understanding of all humanity.

I didn’t vote for him because he was an African American, but as one it would gave many more non-whites the encouragement to succeed as he.

Reed was making a political assessment of you and me. Was he wrong, perhaps not?
Obama is president.

Light skinned African American? African American? American?
In time, when we value all of our country men and women as “American” we will see the king had no clothes.

[Tom]

When you have played the race card as often as Dems have, you lose all credibility. What you post here is exactly the position most on the right have been saying all along. Now when it's one of yours, it is suddenly true.
:sleeping::sleeping::sleeping:

BTW, the sins of the past? No one alive today owned slaves. No one alive today was a slave. Time to move on.

BTW2...how's that hope and change working out for you? :lol:
That terrible place in the world Bush put us in.....appears we are still there. :lol:

Only with two terror attacks under our belts.