Nobody's perfect, but Tampa Bay Downs, c'mon!

[ponyplayerdotca]

Please let me know if I'm being too hard on those working at TAMPA BAY DOWNS, but some of the following is really beginning to wear on me as I try to watch and support this track over the last few years.

1) What is with the incorrectly listed post times?

It happens almost everyday, but the last two Saturdays, it's been atrocious. DRF lists the post times in the first column (I know, I know, usually DRF is unreliable, but it's at least a starting point). The second column is the list of times posted by Tampa Bay Downs in the changes section on their own website (you'd think these would be correct!)

Well, the third column illustrates the actual or announced post time of the races so far. The track announcer announced race 4 as being at 1:48pm. The track website says it is 1:39pm. How in the hell does the web guy not have the same time info as the announcer? Do they not talk to each other at this place?

The fourth column shows the actual time they were "off". The screen shows "zero" minutes to post for 2-3 minutes before the gates finally do open. How hard is it to get this right? I know they keep the windows open to get more money bet, but 3 minutes past the announced post time before starting the race? Just say the post time is what it will be!

DRF TAM Announced OFF

12:25 12:25 12:27
01:01 12:50 12:53
01:28 01:14 01:20 01:23
01:55 01:39 01:48 01:51
02:22 02:07 02:17
02:49 02:37
03:16 03:07
03:43 03:37
04:10 04:07
04:37 04:38
05:01 05:09

2) JOCKEY LUIS GONZALEZ

The track announcer for three years now has called this guy "LUIS GON-SAL-VES", as if there is a "v" in his last name. There is no "v". It is "GON-ZAL-EZ" - sounds the way it looks. What is so hard about pronouncing that?

3) OTHER PRONUNCIATION PROBLEMS - As an owner, the one thing you'd like to hear during the call of the race is the name of your horse pronounced properly. And, if it isn't, how about get word to the announcer so the next race, he gets it right. I can't tell you how many races over two years it took for the owners of RIVERSRUNRYLEE to finally get him to get their horse's name right!

OTTASEA

He kept saying "O-TISSA" when it was supposed to be "OTT-A-SEE"

SILVER PEAGUS

He kept saying "PEGA-SIS" when it was supposed to be "PEA-GUS"

RIVERSRUNRYLEE

He kept saying "RIVER-RUNS-A-LEE" when it was supposed to be "RIVERS-RUN-RILEY"

MARQUET CAT

He kept saying "MAR-KEE CAT" when it was supposed to be "MARKET CAT"

SCRUPLES IN

He kept saying "SCRUP ILLS" when it was supposed to be "SCROO-PULLS IN"

The guy does a good job race calling, and no one is perfect, or is going to get every horse right in every race, but when you are pronouncing the wrong thing because you think it is right, that is a problem.

Just my two cents.

[johnhannibalsmith]

Well I know a track announcer that calls "Jabanero" - Jab-a-narrow, rather than hob-a-nyerrow... so nobody's perfect... :D

But that is better than his predecessor, who defiantly referred to "Annaqued" as "Antiquated", insisting that was what they meant. :cool:

[Vinman]

I for one am a major "non-fan" of Mr. Tampa Bay Downs announcer. Stiff, shrill delivrery....text book "fingernails on a blackboard"

If I could replace this guy with the long lost deep baritone delivery of the dear departed Ross Morton (R.I.P.), mistakes and all, I'd do it in a flash. And they ran Ross out of town because he made a few foibles. It seems to me that Mr. Tampa is no better.

What's Milo Perrins doing these days?

Vinman

[BillW]

What's Milo Perrins doing these days?

Vinman

There's a name from the past. I haven't seen/heard from him since the Sam Houston days (1995 ???)

[MickJ26]

Richard "sets 'em down for the drive" Grunder.

[Ian Meyers]

I love Richard's style of calling a race and anybody who knows him (I do) will tell you he is a great human being and a class act. :ThmbUp:

[Vinman]

Ian.....nothing against him personally of course. It's the voice....grating.

Like that line from Chariots of Fire...."You can't put in what God left out".

Vinman

[therussmeister]

He was much, much worse in his one year at Canterbury. His list of mispronounced names probably exceeded 200 horses.A few years back he went to Japan to be the announcer in a horse racing video game they were developing because the Japanese thought he had the quintessential* American horse racing voice. When I read that I threw-up a little in my mouth.



* I can't even guess how he would pronounce this word. :confused:

[Zman179]

Who cares about post times unless you arrive late to the track? I look up at the tv screen, it says 12 minutes and that's good enough for me.

[CincyHorseplayer]

I hate cold weather and am thinking about driving down to Tampa.Got friends there.But this report changes everything for me.:cool:

[rrbauer]

I hate cold weather and am thinking about driving down to Tampa.Got friends there.But this report changes everything for me.:cool:

I wouldn't make/not make a trip to Tampa based on any post in this thread. Grunder has his idiosyncrasies as do most race callers and just listing post times from a variety of sources and then blaming the track because they're not all in synch seems a stretch. "Off" times are often different from tote post times because of delays at the gate, late scratches, etc.

As to the weather, well I got here (in Tampa) 8 days ago and I think there was a 58-degree day and some sunshine in that period, but a couple headlines from this morning's (Sunday) St. Pete paper sum up the weather:
"Cold nights imperil million-dollar crop" and "Sleet falls for the first time since 1966".

However, a "warming trend" is in the offing!

[phatbastard]

5.2 million handle

6 winning faves

4 exactas over 100$

rolling dd's

great exotics platform

and not a bad roster of riders and trainers [gp also ships in some]

these are what i consider


grunders voice isn't the most important thing, but it is distinctive

they always go 2-4 minutes after posted of time...big deal


its my getaway track for a couple weeks every year, nicer folks you will never meet

[post time]

MUTE BUTTON works everytime

[CincyHorseplayer]

I wouldn't make/not make a trip to Tampa based on any post in this thread. Grunder has his idiosyncrasies as do most race callers and just listing post times from a variety of sources and then blaming the track because they're not all in synch seems a stretch. "Off" times are often different from tote post times because of delays at the gate, late scratches, etc.

As to the weather, well I got here (in Tampa) 8 days ago and I think there was a 58-degree day and some sunshine in that period, but a couple headlines from this morning's (Sunday) St. Pete paper sum up the weather:
"Cold nights imperil million-dollar crop" and "Sleet falls for the first time since 1966".

However, a "warming trend" is in the offing!


Hey Rich.You turned me on to Tampa Bay.And believe me 58 degrees is better than 18 degrees in Cincinnati!!!

With the potential of 70 degrees on a regular basis,I'm down!!!


If I don't shrink away in pure cowardice I'll look you up when I get there.

[Maumeeriverangler]

Turfways Battaglia, puts a knot in my stomach listening to him try to call a race I have to mute him.

[Trotman]

IMO the quote like fingernails on a blackboard was very accurate comparison. But for me I like the announcing of
Woodbine's Dan Loiselle very mellow, accurate and exciting when the moment calls for it. I would think for any
track as a marketing ploy would be to hire him for the winter until he has to head back in April-May. This would
with all the Snowbirds that go to Florida for the winter be for them just like home. Just a thought :)

[Hard2Like]

Life must be good if that's all you've got to bitch about.
Cincy,if you do make the trip,Lemme know!
Clean facility,player friendly wagering menu,and local scenery is easy on the eyes.
Value Play=Picnic Area Bring your own coolers,beverages,food,and Oh Yeah,free admission and parking.
Grunder's free coffee and doughnuts interview/discussions with local and national notables in our sport never disappoint.
Pick 4's are starting to heat up also,mispronunciations and all.


Bruce

[jballscalls]

IMO the quote like fingernails on a blackboard was very accurate comparison. But for me I like the announcing of
Woodbine's Dan Loiselle very mellow, accurate and exciting when the moment calls for it. I would think for any
track as a marketing ploy would be to hire him for the winter until he has to head back in April-May. This would
with all the Snowbirds that go to Florida for the winter be for them just like home. Just a thought :)

Not speaking for Dan, but i'm sure he's got a pretty rosey deal up there at Woodbine and i'm sure he loves his 3-4 months off.

back to the point about them not going off at their intended post time....that's intentional to make more $$$$ a huge majority of the money comes in in the last two minutes or so, and they are simply giving everyone a shot to get their money in. Go look around in any OTB and you'll see guys who are just looking for a race with 0 mtp so they can get in on some action.

the other thing they may be doing is trying to stay off of their main competitors post times by taking a couple minutes here or there. We do this at Portland all the time to stay away from Tup and SA....so i'm sure if Tampa gets too close to Gup or AQu, they take 2 or 3.

[Tom]

I love Richard's style of calling a race and anybody who knows him (I do) will tell you he is a great human being and a class act. :ThmbUp:

Her is one of my all time favorites - the guy just gets me upbeat about the races. My only gripe about TB is that danged tree blocking the start! :D

[rrbauer]

Her is one of my all time favorites - the guy just gets me upbeat about the races. My only gripe about TB is that danged tree blocking the start! :D

I think that's the 7f start from out of the chute. Tree's been there longer than the track and for that matter most of Oldsmar.

[46zilzal]

Between accurate content and STYLE of delivery , the former is the more important, BUT it can drive one nuts .....That is why at most tracks, I just keep the volume down...Most football, basketball, baseball games to by the way.

Anyone knowing the game can pick up what is going on from the images and doesn't need the hoopola.

[Grits]

Between accurate content and STYLE of delivery , the former is the more important, BUT it can drive one nuts .....That is why at most tracks, I just keep the volume down...Most football, basketball, baseball games to by the way.

Anyone knowing the game can pick up what is going on from the images and doesn't need the hoopola.

Soooooooo Zilly, we can understand that you would've lived well, married to Helen Keller?:lol:

[Space Monkey]

I don't really like to bash the people who work at the track. I envy them and respect their devotion to the sport. Saying that, I realized right away, in 2001 when I moved to Tampa, that the local guy was never going to make it to prime time :lol: . But I don't need him to tell me where my horse is. The only time I need a quality call is in the big races of the year. The races you record or watch back on YouTube years later. Then, the call is part of the event. I loved Dave Johnson's "Down the stretch they come", NYRA'S Marshall Cassidy's "In front" call at the wire and Trevor's "And away they go" gate call. Grunder (?) calls the first 4 out of the gate, then goes to last horse. Skips the middle ones :lol:. But hes a fixture and people like him. Thats OK with me.

Margo on the other hand is useless. I haven't heard her say 1 thing in 8+ years that wasn't obvious. The Downs could use some new blood there. Did I say I don't like to bash people who work at the track? I may not like to, but,,,,,,

[1st time lasix]

I enjoy handicapping and playing TBD this time of the year. I actually go on site to the facility about four/five days per year. Like to combine an afternoon there with a Lighning/Bucs evening game. Much of the time I play into simulcast pools off track. Big fields....only play win/exacta/dd's/pick 3/4/6 pools on carryovers. I like .50 pick fours there and most everywhere they allow them. No TBD tris or supers due to onerous take % there. It isn't real easy there on dirt with shippers and horses that like that specific surface. many need a trip over it before they becme effective. The wind can actually be a factor there on some days. You can get some overlay prices if you are willing to do a little spreading. The turf course is as nice as anywhere. They carve a nice deli sandwich on bottom floor. Nice buffet upstairs in clubhouse if you want to stay inside. Paddock is very accessible for sight lines for all the patrons. Parking and entry/exit has improved. Margo adds little but she is part of the experience. I could care less about the race announcer but he sure has a distinct voice. There is no question which track it is when the gates open in Tampa!

[castaway01]

Grunder is technically awful (I mean, a track announcer should probably be able to remember and/or pronounce the horses' names right most of the time) and he's even worse than Battaglia in saying the exact same thing in every race whether it fits or not. My pet peeve is how a horse "attacks along the inner rail"...Rich, the next time you see a horse attacking along the outer rail, you let me know. (I know, Broad Brush in that PA Derby :) )

With that said, his quirkiness makes him oddly endearing---it would be strange to hear a Tampa race without him calling it. I guess if the people at the track like him, that's all that matters.

[DanG]

Margo on the other hand is useless. I haven't heard her say 1 thing in 8+ years that wasn't obvious. The Downs could use some new blood there. Did I say I don't like to bash people who work at the track? I may not like to, but,,,,,,
To each their own, but in all fairness and possibly just defending the home turf;

She does the most important thing of all for a PR rep…she answers inquires faster then anyone in the business.

E-mail Margo with any question under the sun from local accommodations, restaurants, track facilities etc…You will usually get a thoughtful response faster then the next Zenyatta thread bash appears. (Well; maybe not that fast :D)

BTW: I’m still waiting for 3+ year old inquires from Gulfstream to arrive. :faint:

[rrbauer]

When Margo does her little pre-race analysis from the walking ring area, pay attention if she mentions a horse that is a price and doesn't look that inviting on paper. I don't keep stats on those but I bet some research would find that they have a positive ROI. Just another of the many nuances at Tampa.

[Steve 'StatMan']

We had an racing anaylist a few years ago that used to make frequent mistakes. One horse named Brian Dude almost always was refered to as Brain Dead. Plenty of other errors. Sometimes half the fun (when we didn't have the sound turned down) was to wait to see what funny/outrageous thing she was going to say next. Good woman, well liked, but she said some humdingers by golly.

[Space Monkey]

Ok, maybe "useless" was too strong a term. I guess if you listen to her every race, every day, then she'll come up with something good once in a while. I gave her plenty of attention in my first few years here, and just decided shes not worth it. Personal decision. Never said she wasn't a nice person. I never dealt with her, but I have with some of the tracks management. I am always treated well. I guess what I'm saying is I would like Tampa to hire a professional handicapper for Margo's job. Yes, someone like the Little Guy :lol: Someone that can give an in depth opinion of the horses other than just pointing out that they just shipped in from Gulfstream off a 3rd place finish at a higher level.

[Space Monkey]

She does the most important thing of all for a PR rep

Thats it Dan. She's more of a PR rep than a serious race analyst. Don't fire her, just give her another job in PR. Hire a pro to talk to the bettors.

[InTheRiver68]

I know that most of this thread is about the announcer, but I want to chime in on the question about post times, since post times are part of what I do for a living.

Race tracks set post times based on a number of factors. Top tier race tracks use a standard set of post times, or one that changes very minimally throughout their season. They will only change them to accomodate a spill, inquiry, late jock change, godawful weather, etc.

Non-top-tier tracks, however, would be stupid to drop their races directly on top of the Belmonts and Churchills and Del Mars of the racing world, so they make the effort to put their posts well before or well after the big tracks.

Tampa Bay's mutuel manager (or his deputy) is easily the most active post-time-setter I know of. After every race, he will look at the bank of simulcast signals and the day's post time schedule, and make an educated guess about where he can put his next race without having his horses loading in the gate while *the whole country* is watching Edgar Prado crossing the wire. He'll then call race day control (the tote room) and tell them exactly for what time to set the next post.

He *must* have the cooperation of the stewards, the horsemen, and the racing office. But that cooperation can mean literally hundreds of thousands of dollars in extra handle at the end of the day. It's very smart management.

The same thinking goes into why zero minutes to post isn't really post time. Most of the handle rolls in within two minutes to post. If you delay at post, you get a sizeable extra chunk of money from people who would otherwise be shut out.

- InTheRiver68

[samyn on the green]

I hate to say it but the guy's voice sounds like a kazoo being blown into a bullhorn. Ian.....nothing against him personally of course. It's the voice....grating.

Like that line from Chariots of Fire...."You can't put in what God left out".

Vinman

[appistappis]

well I learned the hard way today when a listed 1:25 race goes off at 1:15

[NJ Stinks]

Maybe it's just me but I actually look forward to Grunder saying "....in the first at Tampa!" :cool: Always makes me think about how much I wish I really was at Tampa! :(

Anyway, I like his style and enjoy his race calls. Of course, I never owned a horse who's name was mispronounced by Richard either. :)

[ponyplayerdotca]

appistappis of niagara falls wrote Jan. 14:

"well I learned the hard way today when a listed 1:25 race goes off at 1:15"

===

Thanks to everyone who has contributed to this thread that I started.

POST TIMES: note the post above from appistappis - that is what I was talking about mostly. I don't sit and watch one track at a time to know what the next post time calculated on the fly by the Tampa officer is going to be.
I expect that if they post on their website with the most up-to-date changes the amended post times for that day, that they be somewhat accurate. If it says 1:25pm post time, and the race goes off at 1:15pm, how does that help increase their handle?

As far as the "zero" on the screen for 3-4 minutes, I know they do that on purpose to get as much money as they can into their pools - that's just good business. But when you've all made your late bets, and you still have to sit there and wait another 2-3 minutes before the race goes, you can't help feeling that race at the other track you are wanting to watch is going off too and you thought you'd be able to watch both initially when planning out your day.

With regards to the announcer, Richard Grunder, I like his call and his energy, and a greater guy you can't find apparently based on some posts. I simply want some accuracy with horse names and not blatant misreads of what they should be called (within reason - not seeking utter perfection here).

As far as the track, I know it's a wonderful place from all I've heard (never had the chance to visit yet). I speak strictly from a simulcast production point of view. If you want people to watch and wager, you have to pay attention to the details.

Great track with great betting opportunities in these cold winter months up north. Just pay attention to some details and we'll all come out winners.