Cynthia/Horsestreet

[Trotman]

Both are part of this forum Dave Horsestreet and Dick Cynthia. My question is to all is which set of pars addresses all surfaces and shippers to and from Canada and do they do all Canadian tracks not that there are many.
I believe Beyer wrote in his books that to make things easier just order the pars by Cynthia and yet DRF has Horsestreet listed in their book section.

[PaceAdvantage]

Both are part of this forum Dave Horsestreet and Dick Cynthia.Dave is certainly a part of this forum, but Dick Mitchell passed away in 2005.

[Trotman]

Thanks PA for the info

[Jake]

Go with the Horsestreet pars. Dave is very good with his approach to small sample sizes and making adjustments.

Jake

[banacek]

Plus, a quick look at the Cynthia site shows the only par product to be "2009 California Pars Plus" which is pars for Cali tracks + key shipper tracks...

Actually they have the California book listed for $45 and the full one for $129

[KingChas]

Go with the Horsestreet pars. Dave is very good with his approach to small sample sizes and making adjustments.

Jake

These are ever changing par #'s.I overpaid once ,never again.archives are free now
,unless your lazy, make your own pars.Or adjust for Delaware park Arabain's,or almost distances.
Do you want to pay for someone else's numbers or make your own?
That no one else has ?
That's up to you.
With horse racing being a parimutial pool I prefer to have my own! ;)

[Dave Schwartz]

We do as many of the small tracks as we can. I must admit that some of them are just impossible because the information is so out of whack.

BCF (Brown County Fair) is my favorite example.

One year BCF's 6.5f par was 6 seconds faster than its 6f par. Looking at the races, I assumed that the distances were recorded incorrectly.

Trotman asked my privately about Canadian tracks. Truthfully, I sometimes forget which are which, although there is actually a field for it.

Here are the tracks I consider "small" that we cover.

ANF ARP ASD ATO BOI BRD DUN EUR FAR FER FLG FMT FON FTP GCF GF GIL GLD GPR GRP HPO KAM KD LBG LNN MAN MD MPF MPM NMP NP SAF SJ SRP STP SUD TIM WRD


Regards,
Dave Schwartz

[KingChas]

We do as many of the small tracks as we can. I must admit that some of them are just impossible because the information is so out of whack.

BCF (Brown County Fair) is my favorite example.

One year BCF's 6.5f par was 6 seconds faster than its 6f par. Looking at the races, I assumed that the distances were recorded incorrectly.

Trotman asked my privately about Canadian tracks. Truthfully, I sometimes forget which are which, although there is actually a field for it.

Here are the tracks I consider "small" that we cover.

ANF ARP ASD ATO BOI BRD DUN EUR FAR FER FLG FMT FON FTP GCF GF GIL GLD GPR GRP HPO KAM KD LBG LNN MAN MD MPF MPM NMP NP SAF SJ SRP STP SUD TIM WRD


Regards,
Dave Schwartz




Dave,I have seen your sample pace figs,excellent but your like the oil,prices,until u come down to the the current economic price's you will only draw the pro bettors and not the weekend warriors,of course maybe thats what you want?

[proximity]

horsestreet's pars are pure quirin style pars. for example at belmont the difference in final time pars between stakes horses and 20k mcls is about four seconds...... whether the distance of the race is 5 furlongs or a mile and a half..... so you may struggle if you plan on using these pars to make some class based beyer style (parallel time chart) speed figures.

if you're using the pars to make pace figures, the relationships between the pace and final times are much better with horsestreet. horses do not run the way cynthia's pars say they do. there are also other inconsistencies with the cynthia pars.....too many.... which led me to even try horsestreet's in the first place.

there is some interesting supplementary information that comes with cynthia's pars, but for as far as for the basic raw par data is concerned i'd say horsestreet.

[PaceAdvantage]

Actually they have the California book listed for $45 and the full one for $129Indeed they do...I neglected to see they had a big fat NEXT button on their Product List page...

Here is a direct link to the par book:

http://www.cynthiapublishing.com/Merchant2/merchant.mv?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=THS&Product_Code=IN-ALLPARS

It's also available in electronic form...

http://www.cynthiapublishing.com/Merchant2/merchant.mv?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=THS&Product_Code=PROPARS

I apologize for posting the misinformation earlier...I have edited my original post...

[KingChas]

horsestreet's pars are pure quirin style pars. for example at belmont the difference in final time pars between stakes horses and 20k mcls is about four seconds...... whether the distance of the race is 5 furlongs or a mile and a half..... so you may struggle if you plan on using these pars to make some class based beyer style (parallel time chart) speed figures.

if you're using the pars to make pace figures, the relationships between the pace and final times are much better with horsestreet. horses do not run the way cynthia's pars say they do. there are also other inconsistencies with the cynthia pars.....too many.... which led me to even try horsestreet's in the first place.

there is some interesting supplementary information that comes with cynthia's pars, but for as far as for the basic raw par data is concerned i'd say horsestreet.


Sttill price is to high for weekend warrior.Without doing my home workout..............$20 max...............!

[PaceAdvantage]

Link to HorseStreet pars:

http://horsestreet.com/products/index.html#Par Times

[PaceAdvantage]

I must also state for the record that I have been a customer of Dave's par times for many years for use in my own programming endeavors, and remain as satisfied as ever with his product.

[Dave Schwartz]

KingC,

Unfortunately, the amount of use that you would get from the product does not determine the price. That is a combination of what the public will pay and the cost of production.

While I would like to have everyone's business, $20 is simply a ridiculous price considering the amount of work that goes into building them. The book currently costs us $13 to print and $9 to ship.

Alas, we will simply have to continue going without your money and you will continue to play without our pars.


Regards,
Dave Schwartz

[CincyHorseplayer]

$150.00 bucks is cheap.Even if you bet $100 a day once a week.Bargain...

[kitts]

I have been using Cynthia Publishing Pars since the '80s and they work for me. A subscription to the Pars gets one a large book with all sorts of additional information re running styles and variants. Check it all out at the Cynthia site:

http//www.cynthiapublishing.com

[proximity]

one other possible benefit of horsestreet that i neglected to mention is that their pars are in 100ths of a second vs fifths for cynthia's......

[Dave Schwartz]

In special recognition of the wonderful support and friendship HorseStreet has received over the years from Pace Advantage, we'd like to make this special offer.

The 2010 pars are targeted to be released on March 20th, 2010. The price will continue to be $134.97. However, anyone wishing to pre-order the 2010 pars may do so now and receive:

1. An electronic copy of the 2009 pars NOW.
2. An electronic copy of the 2010 pars when they become available.
3. Receive the printed form of the materials for an additional $15 (plus shipping).

A special price of $109.97 will apply! This is a $25 savings!

This offer will be in effect until February 8th, 2010. To order, call our office with your contact and credit card info - 775.825.0260.

In addition, $5 from every order will be donated to HANA.




*Electronic par formats come in several comma-delimited formats as well as the standard easily-printed PDF format.

1. TrkSurfDist
This is our simplest. Each track/surface/distance is one record.

2. Kearns
Our most popular format. Each track/surface is one record. Tracks go downward, distances across. Note that this format supports multiple pars for each track (i.e. GP 2004, GP 2005, GP 2006, etc.) via the "end date" field. Thus, when you order this format you actually receive several past years of pars for each track.

3. PubClassPars
This is an exact match to our printed pars, with each track/surface/class having it's own record. Note that the first column contains other info such as sprint and route ADVs (avg daily variants), class level, etc.

4. HiTech
This is the most powerful but also most complicated format. Only for professional level programmers. There are two files - a track file and a class level file - which relate together through a unique ID number. Essentially, each track file is similar to the Kearns file (format #2), with each track having a unique ID number. The Level file is a "child" of the track file, with each ID number containing an entire set of levels for that track.

You may download a sample of these formats from this link:
http://horsestreet.com/package/Users/2009Pars-/Samples/


Note also, that if you order a particular format and it does not work for you, we will be happy to swap it for another format without any additional charge.

[headhawg]

Great offer Dave. Count me in. Is there a PayPal option?

[Dave Schwartz]

Hawg,

Check your PM.

Dave

[Track Collector]

We do as many of the small tracks as we can. I must admit that some of them are just impossible because the information is so out of whack.

BCF (Brown County Fair) is my favorite example.

One year BCF's 6.5f par was 6 seconds faster than its 6f par. Looking at the races, I assumed that the distances were recorded incorrectly.

Trotman asked my privately about Canadian tracks. Truthfully, I sometimes forget which are which, although there is actually a field for it.

Here are the tracks I consider "small" that we cover.

ANF ARP ASD ATO BOI BRD DUN EUR FAR FER FLG FMT FON FTP GCF GF GIL GLD GPR GRP HPO KAM KD LBG LNN MAN MD MPF MPM NMP NP SAF SJ SRP STP SUD TIM WRD


Regards,
Dave Schwartz

Dave,

I'm familiar with all of the above except one. What is MPF? It may be a new track for me to visit! :)

[Red Knave]

Dave,

I'm familiar with all of the above except one. What is MPF? It may be a new track for me to visit! :)

I think he meant to type MOF (MOHAVE COUNTY FAIR).

[Track Collector]

Thanks Red.