Are jockeys allowed to talk to each other

[JustRalph]

I was watching a race from Calder today and saw two Jocks talking to each other as they looked to be entering a speed duel on the outside. One of them immediately moved back and the other was then cleared by others up the rail. The Jock who stayed up front ended up running second at 20-1.

I am just wondering if there is a rule against them talking to each other. The horse that moved back ran 4th in about a 6-7 horse field. Anybody know about rules on this?

** I went back and watched this race again. These guys were talking to each other from the break. Interesting. Jocks were Lopez and Deyan.

[Pace Cap'n]

I recall a feature story in DRF a couple of years back when Tyler Baze was an apprentice. He was in the same race as Jerry Bailey and was sitting just to his outside. Tyler wanted to rate, and Bailey wanted him to go to the lead, and told him so in no uncerain terms. "Take it, you got it, it's yours, go on", etc. Per Tyler, he just rode his race and won, and Bailey wasn't too happy.

Have read other stories over the years. They talk to each other, the horses, and probably themselves.

[Valuist]

My question is: Why wouldn't they? Let's say your on a longshot and up front with another big priced horse. "Hey, lets slow it down and we both have a good shot at hitting the board." Let's face it; there's plenty of couplings where I'm sure this happens; there's relatives riding against each other and friends in the same race or jocks with the same agent. You know this goes on, and probably a lot more often than we'd like to think.

[Dave Schwartz]

A long time ago I had a jockey agent as a client. He told me that you wouldn't believe what was said between these guys during the running of a race... everything from traffic warnings to encouragement to threats.

One of his favorite story subjects was how Angel Cordero "ran the jockey room" in NY. I guess that anyone that didn't get out of the way when Angel was coming through on the rail was subject to physical intimidation and (perhaps) a beating when the race was over (or tomorrow on the backstretch).

Anyway, once I was at Santa Anita and had the opportunity to hear first hand (because of a microphone) part of several races. It was truly surprising to hear these guys DEMANDING room for their horses. (The swaering wasn't so surprising, but I often needed it translated.)

Dave

[VetScratch]

The way Dave characterized vocal exchanges between jockeys was right on the money!

This vocal aspect of racing is one of the reasons that many trainers did (and still do) feel reluctant to name female jockeys.
They figure gals won't be as loud and aggressive as the guys, or that guys won't respect traffic commands and similar utterances by a female voice.

[Tom]

At Finger Lakes, you can stand by the parking fence at the top of the stretch, as they come off the turn, and be close enough to not hear the jocks yelling obsecenities at eachother, but they can clearly hear YOU as well. The grandstand is far enough away that you are pretty much in a quiet area out there. I used to hollar out encouraging words and critique the rides from that point, and more than once, a jock would yell back at me, something about good LUCK to YOU! :eek: :rolleyes:

[LutherCalvin]

Tom, that's funny! A case of selective perception no doubt!

[WINMANWIN]

Originally posted by JustRalph
I was watching a race from Calder today and saw two Jocks talking to each other as they looked to be entering a speed duel on the outside. One of them immediately moved back and the other was then cleared by others up the rail. The Jock who stayed up front ended up running second at 20-1.

I am just wondering if there is a rule against them talking to each other. The horse that moved back ran 4th in about a 6-7 horse field. Anybody know about rules on this?

** I went back and watched this race again. These guys were talking to each other from the break. Interesting. Jocks were Lopez and Deyan.

It's really a joke when 1 seriously thinks about what jocks do during there day....They hang in the same quarters for hrs together, during the running of the race card.They play cards,
pool, ping pong, etc together, They sauna, shower, and slap Fives after some races....:confused: In every sport the opposing team is in another locker room, But not these PINHEADS, they Mingle together, EAT, and Thieve DAILY with 1 another.

[kenwoodall]

Russell Baze has been known to swear at himself loudly.
I think male golfers share the same room

[jotb]

Originally posted by WINMANWIN
It's really a joke when 1 seriously thinks about what jocks do during there day....They hang in the same quarters for hrs together, during the running of the race card.They play cards,
pool, ping pong, etc together, They sauna, shower, and slap Fives after some races....:confused: In every sport the opposing team is in another locker room, But not these PINHEADS, they Mingle together, EAT, and Thieve DAILY with 1 another.


Do you really think they cheat? At the smaller racetracks where the pots are small, I would think there would be some fooling around but at places like NY where the pots are huge, it would not make sense for a jock to risk his or her career to stiff a horse. Once a trainer thinks a jockey might be "cheating" I'm pretty sure that trainer would be reluctant to use that rider's services ever again. If a jockey is in the top 10 in NY, they are making some decent money and would not risk losing live mounts to cheat. The jocks that are starving in NY probably would take a shot and cheat but usually their mounts are so bad there is nothing to cheat with.

jotb

[so.cal.fan]

I have to believe "jotb" is right on here.
So. Cal. is exactly the same situation.
Years ago, we used to hear of cheating at Fairplex (Pomona Fair).
However, the purses are so large there now, no way.
That said, I can't make the same statement for No. Calif. racing.

[PaceAdvantage]

This line of thinking doesn't usually explain all sorts of apparently-irrational acts committed by "people with too much to risk"...

Let's see....OJ Simpson, Richard Nixon, Sammy Sosa, Tons of Olympic Athletes, etc., etc.....the list of the famous and infamous who have screwed up their careers and or lives is endless.

Lots of people cheat or somehow or another screw up their lives, risking everything they've achieved to date on something that did not "NEED" to be done.....

[so.cal.fan]

Point well taken, PA
There will always be a certain type of person who just has to cheat even if they don't need to......must be the "thrill" of getting away with something.
I really think most people are not such "dare devils", including jockeys.
You forgot Martha Stewart on your list, PA..........

[kenwoodall]

I know Northern Ca. You can email me with questions.
Stiff= Jeryy Hollendorfer favorite with an outside post and speed inside, who cannot get close to the rail will save energy for the next race. Cheat? No, he is keeping the horse from being overworked and hurting itself. Good bet with a beter post!
Morris was not stiffing horses at BM when he was 3 wins of 84 races. He just now learned to balance in the saddle without using the reins and is now winning big!!

[VetScratch]

Kenwoodall
Morris was not stiffing horses at BM when he was 3 wins of 84 races. He just now learned to balance in the saddle without using the reins and is now winning big!!

Do you mean R. Morris, the CA fair/bush-circuit jock, who has been around since 1997 or 1998? If so, he was an awfully slow learner because it took him 1000+ mounts to learn how to balance in the saddle!

[gino]

did they ever find Ron Hansen's body? and whatever happened to that jock from the bayous who hid in the fog and then took the lead on the second lap...america loves redemption and comebacks...saddam is a big horseplayer...we'll slap him in a cell with milosevic and put 'em both on lasix...we're looking for a new governor out here in CaliFornia...

[JustRalph]

Originally posted by gino
whatever happened to that jock from the bayous who hid in the fog and then took the lead on the second lap

He is riding at Evangeline I believe. Carmouche Sr. If my memory serves right

[VetScratch]

Gino,
America loves redemption and comebacks...Saddam is a big horseplayer...we'll slap him in a cell with Milosevic and put 'em both on lasix...we're looking for a new governor out here in CaliforniaWith Ventura gone in Minnesota, California should make a bolder bid to regain the spotlight. How about Baghdad Bob as both jockey agent and governor? Headline quips like "How many promises can one man break!" should do the job. :)

[gino]

Vettie-
If we manage to recall Mr Rogers' body double(aka Gov Gray Davis), Arnold the Terminator is a shoo-in...it's the only way to one-up the fine folks in Land o' Lakes...hopefully one of the hacks that Davis has appointed to the Horse Racing Board will get him a gig walking hots or mucking stalls...like most politicians he'd be in his element...endless circles while knee deep in manure...
gino
good thing my vote doesn't count

[Valuist]

Re: Hansen, I've heard two versions. One was that they found the body and the other was that he was supposedly dumped off the Golden Gate bridge. I also remember a rider in New York in the early 80s named Beitia who I believe was murdered.

[Tom]

Originally posted by gino
Vettie-
If we manage to recall Mr Rogers' body double(aka Gov Gray Davis), Arnold the Terminator is a shoo-in...
good thing my vote doesn't count

You mean the Governator? :rolleyes:

[gino]

tom-
i like it.

[WINMANWIN]

Originally posted by jotb
Do you really think they cheat? At the smaller racetracks where the pots are small, I would think there would be some fooling around but at places like NY where the pots are huge, it would not make sense for a jock to risk his or her career to stiff a horse. Once a trainer thinks a jockey might be "cheating" I'm pretty sure that trainer would be reluctant to use that rider's services ever again. If a jockey is in the top 10 in NY, they are making some decent money and would not risk losing live mounts to cheat. The jocks that are starving in NY probably would take a shot and cheat but usually their mounts are so bad there is nothing to cheat with.

jotb

To be honest, I think they fool around all over.The trainer may
instruct jocks to lay back with a speed ball and set-up his steed
for another day. In some races horses just dont do anything,
or take wide trips to nowhere, and trainers ride them Right back.
Over the years, many become friends ETC. In a 6 steed field where the cash is strong, Even in the Winter at Aqueduct, If 1
watches enuff races, you have to be Naive to think they dont play games... :eek: I caught a nice exacta the other day with
a beaten fave last out at Belmont. Peitz trained the favored Entry
and they were up the track. I said WOW,,,What Non Efforts, 3 weeks later at Double Digits, REDEMPTION was Ultra Sweet. I am not saying most races are Fixed, predetermined etc, But when you have trainer and Jocks not giving 100 % efforts in some races, INTEGRITY IS AN ISSUE, and the public is DECEIVED, and always will be:mad:

[so.cal.fan]

Valuist:
Remember Michael Hole?
Was said to have committed suicide in his car back in the 70's.
According to a trainer who knew him here in Calif. this was NOT a SUICIDE but a MURDER.